what can I do?

[Johnny Pneumatic]

I am a "closet" atheist living with fundamentalists baptist parents;"lucky" me. If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale my parents would believe it! I try to get out of church
when i can. I stay at college on Wensdays. I don't know what
they would do if they knew i was a atheist. I don't know if
they will hate me, kick me out, (brainwash me (I will not let them) I've been an atheist for about 2 1/2 years and I'm tired of living a double life. I have O.C.D. (obsessive compulsive disorder) the stress of college and hideing makes it worse. I'm skipping indoctrination right now. When I get home I hope I don't hear
"you missed church tonight. you know we need you their. we're few in number....."

[Yahweh]

Welcome to the forum! :)

And good on you for keeping your parents from scrambling your brain. My suggestion, just ask them questions... things they cant really answer too easily.

A few examples:
"People of other religions have just as much faith in their god as you do in yours, what makes them wrong?"

"Is there anything in the world that we know to exist that cant be explained in terms of matter or natural phenomena?"

I know the people on this forum have their own list of questions on hand for just such an occasion, everyone feel free to add you own, we're always here to help.

[Yahzi]

One possible solution is to start behaving as if you actually believe.

Give away your coat to the next homeless person you see. Heck, give away everything in your house.

Quit your job and spend all your time praying, because the Lord will provide.

Spend your time hanging out with whores and gangsters, preaching God's mercy and love to them. Invite them over to your house for dinner every night.

Wake your parents up every night by crying. When they ask what's wrong, tell them you are afraid they are having sex. Paul said it was better to marry than to burn, and that kind of implies that its ok if they are married, but you're still worried because God really wants everyone to live without sex at all.

If one of your parents is divorced... start throwing stones at them.

Refuse to wear mixed fabrics. That pretty much means most of the clothes you own (read the tags).

Stop eating pork, and break into tears whenever your parents do. Openly weep in the supermarket over the bacon and ham, because you know it means someone is going to sin.

Drop out of school. Since Jesus will return any day now, stop worrying about things like education and paychecks and rent. Stop flossing too, since all those cavities will soon be irrelevant.


***

The alternative is to tell your parents that you need to deal with your spiritual nature in your own way, and that's that. You don't have to tell them you are an atheist; you can just say that you have to walk your own path. If they love you, they will respect this, although they might be worried or frightened.

On the other hand there is a high probability that they expect you to remain obedient and under their control in all aspects of your life. Many fundies are all about the control. If this is the case, your parents are rotting bastards and the sooner you get out of there the better. Getting thrown out would be a blessing in disguise.

[a_unique_person]

Just smile and go along with them. They have raised you, like good parents. They obviously have some decent beliefs and values, otherwise they would not have raised you to be where you are today.

Just try to not crack up over the obvious hypocrisies and contradictions. The world is full of these. I knew a son of a fundie minister, and he was just became a heroin junkie.

The world has always been like this. And, I guess, it always will.

Tell them that college is hard and you really need to be able to work on your grades. There should be counsellors at college who can help you out with the OCD, which may be just a sign of stress.

[Garrette]

I'm with AUP on this.

You won't change them. Knowing this, ask yourself what good will come of advertising your non-belief to them.

I'm in a similar situation. The rest of my family is religious with some of them being quite devout (all Roman Catholic). I have admitted one bit of cowardice in my life and that is my refusal to tell my parents that I am atheist. It will only hurt them and my relationship with them. On the other hand, I do not lie. I answer questions (rarely asked) about my belief with short answers that give away only what is necessary.

I have decided that if I am ever asked directly, I will be truthful, but until then, I won't push it on my parents that I am atheist.

My personal circumstances allow this to work, at least for now.

One bright spot, surprisingly, was my younger sister. She ad her husband asked me to be their daughter's (second child) godfather. I was so flattered at first, I forgot my lack of belief and agreed. Later, after I had hung up, I remembered I'm an atheist. I toyed with not telling her and going through with it, but decided she had a right to know.

When I called her back, she was surprised that I'm an atheist, but she and her husband discussed it for a few days and agreed I could still do it. Her exact words were "We figure your kids are okay so it should be alright for Ally, too."

[Johnny Pneumatic]

I hate wasting my time with religion. I still have not come up with
a way to get out of 3 hours of church on sundays. It adds up.
I'd rather sleep or enjoy the time i'm alive. :) My dad is the pastor
of the church I "go" to. I wonder what kind of fairyland one has to live in to believe that the universe is 6,000 years old!

[arcticpenguin]

Fall to the floor in the presence of your family, thrash your limbs about for several minutes while 'speaking in tongues'. Then come out of it slowly. Tell your family that you received a direct message from God. He told you that He doesn't exist and you should get on with your life. If they question your veracity, accuse them of calling God a liar.

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I hate wasting my time with religion. I still have not come up with
a way to get out of 3 hours of church on sundays. It adds up.
I'd rather sleep or enjoy the time i'm alive. :) My dad is the pastor
of the church I "go" to. I wonder what kind of fairyland one has to live in to believe that the universe is 6,000 years old!
Always remember here that it is your dad's religion which you cannot agree to. That has nothing to do with 'reality'. Therefore, that has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.
Stay open-minded, if nothing else.

[wayrad]

Are there any school activities you could get involved in that would keep you on campus for the weekends? Alternatively, would it be feasible to transfer to a school farther from home?

[Prospero]

My parents were bad, but they certainly weren't to the extreme that your parents seem to be. My advice is to find an activity that makes services/church activities impossible due to scheduling difficulties. Apologize profusely then stop caring. It's not worth stressing about. Or, if worse comes to worse and a confrontation occurs, use the phrase "I don't need religion in my life right now." It's fairly vague and gives the impression that you could choose to be religious again later, though you might have to point that out. College isn't a time to be religious, anyway. Just placate them until necessary and don't concern yourself with it.

[shuize]

Tell them you're too busy at college with your "God-hates-fags" meetings. If they are good baptists, they will understand and leave you to your business.

[jimlintott]

My advice.

Sit them down, look them in the eye and tell them you are atheist.

Tell them that you had to tell them because that is who you are and you can't live a secret life any more. Tell them you love them and hope they will accept you for who you are.

They may or they may not. They may reject you and eventually come around. They may never come around. The most important person here is you. Look after yourself first.

I believe that this will be the most effective way of lifting the burden you are currently living under.

Sneaking around and playing games will only make matters worse. Tell the truth. Be true to yoursefl.

[roger]

Think about what you are doing, carefully. The lying will never stop. After you leave college and move out of the house they will want to know what school you go to. When you get married you'll have to lie and get married in their church. When you have kids, you'll have to lie about how you are raising them, or worse, raise them as fundamentalists. When is it going to end?

Some people are okay with hiding stuff like that, but it doesn't sound like you are. So you have to tell them. Your parents had the right to choose what they believe, and you have the right to choose what you believe.

You're an adult (I assume, if you are under 18 that changes everything), and unfortunately you are being forced to make some adult decisions (meaning with possibly unpleasant, long-term consequences). I promise you that you will never be happy trying to please other people by pretending to be what you aren't.

[Suezoled]

being your own person requires a willingness to stand up for what you believe in, and live with the consequences therein. The circumstances you are in are not pleasant, but to keep doing what you're doing isn't pleasant, either.

Between a rock and hard place. You might lose some skin, I won't lie to you. But you won't be trapped, either.

[A_Feeble_Mind]

My advice is, if you are currently relying on your parents for financial support, quietly go along with whatever rules they have. If the possibility exists of being cutoff because of your atheism, it is imperative that you endure the nonsense until you can properly support yourself.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

what if I told them the logical arguments against god?
but not tell them(at first)that i'm a atheist.

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I am a "closet" atheist living with fundamentalists baptist parents;"lucky" me. If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale my parents would believe it...

I assume you are a minor? Just put up with it for a few more years and don't go crazy when you move out.

In the mean time, I recommend you read as much of Ambrose Bierce's stuff as you can get your hands on. Robert Ingersoll is also good, though a bit dry.

[T'ai Chi]

Hey bewareofdogmas, just be honest. Your parents love you because of who you are, not for what you believe or don't.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Abdul Alhazred quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I am a "closet" atheist living with fundamentalists baptist parents;"lucky" me. If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale my parents would believe it...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I assume you are a minor? Just put up with it for a few more years and don't go crazy when you move out.

In the mean time, I recommend you read as much of Ambrose Bierce's stuff as you can get your hands on. Robert Ingersoll is also good, though a bit dry.




I'm 18 I've heard of Ingersoll. Who is Bierce?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Abdul Alhazred quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I am a "closet" atheist living with fundamentalists baptist parents;"lucky" me. If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale my parents would believe it...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I assume you are a minor? Just put up with it for a few more years and don't go crazy when you move out.

In the mean time, I recommend you read as much of Ambrose Bierce's stuff as you can get your hands on. Robert Ingersoll is also good, though a bit dry.




I'm 18 I've heard of Ingersoll. Who is Bierce?

Google a bit. And go to bookstores. My own philosophy is very similar to that of "Bitter Bierce".

The Devil's Dictionary is a good place to start.

He's not hard to find if you are interested.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Its been almost 3 years now; a long time to keep a secret.

[sparklecat]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Its been almost 3 years now; a long time to keep a secret.

"But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe."
- Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason


Tell them :) Is it worth it, to buy their love at the price of who you are? If they won't love you anyway... do you want that?

[triadboy]

I suggest reading Joseph Campbell to study the mythology xianity sprang from. The dying god-man story is ancient and it's fixed in our psyche for some reason.

Christianity took a dying god-man myth - fixed it in time and geography using unsigned "documents" (Gospels) - destroyed all other Gospels whose theology differed with their own - forged other documents to bolster their sides (Paul's pastorals) - altered a Gospel (Mark 16.9 - 16.20) - and claimed the whole myth was truth!

If you really want to get an xian thinking - factually destroy the Old Testament. It's easy and I've seen a few lights come on.

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I am a "closet" atheist living with fundamentalists baptist parents;"lucky" me. If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale my parents would believe it! I try to get out of church
when i can. I stay at college on Wensdays. I don't know what
they would do if they knew i was a atheist. I don't know if
they will hate me, kick me out, (brainwash me (I will not let them) I've been an atheist for about 2 1/2 years and I'm tired of living a double life. I have O.C.D. (obsessive compulsive disorder) the stress of college and hideing makes it worse. I'm skipping indoctrination right now. When I get home I hope I don't hear
"you missed church tonight. you know we need you their. we're few in number....."

The big problem here is that you live under their roof, and with that comes guidelines/expectations I reckon. My advice to you would be to move out, and then have an honest talk with your parents. In all things, consider the perspective of "others", particuarly when the "others" are people who ostensibly love you, even if the the actions don't seem to correspond to that fact.

-Elliot

[elliotfc]

Originally posted by triadboy
I suggest reading Joseph Campbell to study the mythology xianity sprang from. The dying god-man story is ancient and it's fixed in our psyche for some reason.

Yes, and in doing so you'll note that Mithra is not one of these dying/rising gods.

Anyhow Campbell was a pantheist you had some extraordinarily unfortunate and poorly thought out ideas.

Any ideas about the "some reason" by the way?

-Elliot

[Zep]

OK, we are working without some necessary data here, bewareofdogmas.

How old are you? Have you reached your majority (official adulthood) where you reside?

Do you have a job that will support you? Are you still at a secondary school? Or a university or tertiary school of some sort?

What are your current living arrangements? Are you living at home under your parent's roof? Are you living in a college residence primarily? In your own residence?

My GUESS is that you are still a teenager living at home, and attending some secondary "bible college" which was your parents' idea and you had no option. Close?

Zep

[rachaella]

Originally posted by elliotfc


Yes, and in doing so you'll note that Mithra is not one of these dying/rising gods.

Anyhow Campbell was a pantheist you had some extraordinarily unfortunate and poorly thought out ideas.

Any ideas about the "some reason" by the way?

-Elliot

Just because Joseph Campbell is not an atheist doesn't mean his ideas about christianity can't be used effectively by an atheist to argue against the truthfulness of the bible. Heck, even the ideas of more liberal christians can be of use in arguing against strict bible literalists.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by elliotfc
Yes, and in doing so you'll note that Mithra is not one of these dying/rising gods.

Mithra is similar to Jebus in many ways. Just as Attis, Serapis, Osiris, Dionysus, etc etc etc


Anyhow Campbell was a pantheist you had some extraordinarily unfortunate and poorly thought out ideas.


I have no idea what you are talking about here. What is your definition of pantheist? And what ideas are poorly thought out?

[Oleron]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Its been almost 3 years now; a long time to keep a secret.

Hi BOD, I would echo some of the comments made already about respecting the opinions of others. OK so they haven't exactly given your belief's the same kind of consideration but that's no excuse. Take the high ground here.
I have never told my parents about my atheism (and I daresay I'm a bit older than you) because I know it would cause them pain and distress. They would never understand, so what would be gained?

Hope you are winning against OCD. I haven't much advice on that front as I have only come across it once before but I know it's a very real problem for some.

[MLynn]

Originally posted by jimlintott
My advice.

Sit them down, look them in the eye and tell them you are atheist.

Tell them that you had to tell them because that is who you are and you can't live a secret life any more. Tell them you love them and hope they will accept you for who you are.

They may or they may not. They may reject you and eventually come around. They may never come around. The most important person here is you. Look after yourself first.

I believe that this will be the most effective way of lifting the burden you are currently living under.

Sneaking around and playing games will only make matters worse. Tell the truth. Be true to yoursefl.
Dear beware, jimlintotts quote above says it well, and I echo his thoughts. Please tell your parents if you haven't already (it must be tough being a PK).

[triadboy]

I found this on the web to highlight how ridiculous xianity is. Once you see the mythology inside the religion - the 'specialness' of The Christ fades away.



The Vatican was built upon the grounds previously devoted to the worship of Mithra (600 B.C.).

The Orthodox Christian hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version. Virtually all of the elements of Orthodox Christian rituals, from miter, wafer, water baptism, alter, and doxology, were adopted from the Mithra and earlier pagan mystery religions.

The religion of Mithra preceded Christianity by roughly six hundred years. Mithra, the sun god of ancient Iran, has the following karmic similarities with Jesus:

(1) Mithra was born on December 25th.

(2) He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.

(3) He had twelve companions or disciples.

(4) He performed miracles.

(5) He was buried in a tomb and after three days he rose again.

(6) His resurrection was celebrated every year.

(7) Mithra was called "the good shepherd,” "the way, the truth and the light,” “redeemer,” “savior,” “Messiah."

(8) He was identified with both the lion and the lamb.

(9) His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day."

(10) Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.

(11) The Mithra religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

[ASRomatifoso]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
Abdul Alhazred quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
I am a "closet" atheist living with fundamentalists baptist parents;"lucky" me. If the bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale my parents would believe it...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I assume you are a minor? Just put up with it for a few more years and don't go crazy when you move out.

In the mean time, I recommend you read as much of Ambrose Bierce's stuff as you can get your hands on. Robert Ingersoll is also good, though a bit dry.




I'm 18 I've heard of Ingersoll. Who is Bierce?


Move out. Get a roommate or roommates to help with rent. Get a job, at least part-time. If staying at your parents' house bothers you so much, then you will find a way to get out and do your own thing. If not, then stay there but realize that you're going to have to do some things you don't like. I moved out on my own at 16, had a job, place to live, etc. Tough but better than living with my parents. Good luck!

[Johnny Pneumatic]

How old are you? Have you reached your majority (official adulthood) where you reside?-Zep


19





Do you have a job that will support you? Are you still at a secondary school? Or a university or tertiary school of some sort?-Zep

http://www.npcc.edu/


Are you living at home under your parent's roof?-Zep


Yes

[Zep]

Originally posted by bewareofdogmas
How old are you? Have you reached your majority (official adulthood) where you reside?-Zep
19

Do you have a job that will support you? Are you still at a secondary school? Or a university or tertiary school of some sort?-Zep
http://www.npcc.edu/

Are you living at home under your parent's roof?-Zep

Yes Well, your college looks like a nice place to learn good stuff - they certainly don't look like a "bible" college or anything. Although I suspect that, in Arkansas, there is an amount of peer pressure on campus to conform to some religious norms.

However, at age 19, you should really be looking seriously at leaving home now. You certainly have your own reasons that you may not wish to share with your parents just now, but just your age and circumstances alone say that now is the time to fly the nest anyway. Consider it an act of your own growing maturity.

As others have mentioned above, you could look for a part-time job (to start paying your way through college for a start). And if it so happens that your job is on weekends and evenings (hint, hint) you can generate plenty of legitimate excuses for not attending church. Pizza delivery guy springs to mind, as an example (most pizzas are ordered at night on weekends).

What do you think?

[Riddick]

this might be a touchy subject with your parents.

the worst thing they could do is disown you, and eliminate you from their will. i would hope they wouldn't do these things, but you should be prepared for the worst possible outcome. hint hint.

on the other hand, they just might go on loving you anyway, despite your differences. they won't let their disappointment in you ruin their relationship with you. this is what you would hope for.

[Johnny Pneumatic]

I just don't know. I'm getting so sick of religion. An hour on Wed., three hours on Sun., an hour on the third Sat. of every month, 5 hours at the Fifth Sun. Meetings.:hb: They just make up some crap reason to go. But I don't want to hurt them. I'd love to show them the joy and freedom that I have. [wishfull thinking]Maybe they'd want it to.[/wishfull thinking].

[Irish Murdoch]

So far as the OCD is concerned, try visiting here:

www.stuckinadoorway.co.uk

You may find it helpful

[Ossai]

Zep
As others have mentioned above, you could look for a part-time job (to start paying your way through college for a start). And if it so happens that your job is on weekends and evenings (hint, hint) you can generate plenty of legitimate excuses for not attending church. Pizza delivery guy springs to mind, as an example (most pizzas are ordered at night on weekends).

I delivered pizzas for a bit of college. You always had to work both Friday and Saturday nights, however Sunday morning the story was closed. There is also not much control over your work schedule.

You (bewareofdogmas) might try looking on campus for a part time job (lab assistant, cafeteria, TA, intern, etc). These have the bonus of knowing you are a college student and they will usually help you with a work schedule.

[Benguin]

Parents can be damned awkward as you and they grow in years.

Mine are both as atheist as me, but we still find things to argue about.

Have you thought about breaking them in gently and giving them time to adjust?

Is it necessary to make them challenge their own beliefs in order to accept you because (or in spite) of yours?

In your shoes I think I might suggest I find all the church going a little challenging and interfering with time you could spend contemplating belief in quiet solitude.

The gradually break them in to doubts, moving to agnosticism, and possibly leave it at that.

Actually I'm lying, I've spent years having stinking rows with (one of) my parents. I deeply regret them every time, but it never stops me as I'm too opinionated to listen to, what I believe to be, obnoxious and ill-informed bigotry.

On the whole, I don't think arguing with them does anything but cause upset, but I do know where you are and it is those feelings that stop me biting my tongue every time.

[roger]

Have you ever had a hypothetical conversation with them about this? As in "I was reading this article about this kid who was kicked out of his house because he told his parents were atheists, and boy, does that seem harsh..." or something like that. Gauge their response.

It really doesn't sound like a lot of communication is going on in your family, which is not a good sign for the outcome, but it's pretty easy to gauge somebody's thoughts on a subject w/o exposing yourself if you go about it correctly.

I didn't realise that I had already posted to this topic (I scrolled down to see if anyone had posted what I just wrote already). Have you thought about my point? Are you prepared to send YOUR kids to bible school just so your parents don't find out about your beliefs? Or, if you don't have kids, to lie about going to church yourself, etc.

Also, you seem very unhappy with the situation, as you should be. Others have warned that you may upset or hurt your parents if you tell them. Ask yourself why their pain is somehow more important than your pain.

Would you want your kid to hurt just so you didn't have to? If the answer is 'yes', are you really deserving of their consideration at that point?

[rebecca]

Beware of Dogmas,

I skimmed through the thread, but couldn't find where you said why the hell you still live at home. Is the OCD holding you back?

If not, I don't get it. Don't try to argue with your parents about why you believe what you believe, you won't "convert" them. You won't reach an understanding. The only way to do that is to show them that you are still a good person.

I moved out when I was 17. I told my parents I was an atheist when I was 18. My mom was upset. I expected this, and so I was not surprised nor concerned what she thought. I went to my own home and continued to live my life the way I thought I should, like any adult, and we never discussed religion again.

If you don't have a medical condition which keeps you from being an independant person, you have no excuse -- either you will live with your parents and follow their rules and attend their church, or you will move out and be your own person and do what you want. There's no use complaining about it.

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but maybe you just need a kick.

[Navigator]

Greetings bewareofdogmas


:)

there are many versions of 'what god is' as you no doubt know, and indeed this may be one of the reasons you choose to be an 'atheist'.

There are maybe tow major truths here you are dealing with.

one is beliefs

The other is love.

Your beliefs are beliefs ,

your love is love.


You don;t want to hurt or upset the family which supports you yet you struggle with being true to your beliefs, so can identify with 'being true to beliefs'

Part of your parents belief systems are that they no doubt pray to thier god for your continued support in its/their reality and in your daily life.

And you can identify with this.

But it gets you down and otherwise distracts you from being and living your own beliefs.

Funny old world yes?

The hope of parents is that they will continue to live in their children. This dream can shatter and in some ways deny them their dream of immortality through their children and their childrens children.

But God made you unique and even gave you the right to believe not in god who made you unique.
:0

And this is love.

And this is not the love which your parents, and indeed many parents (regardless of whether they are atheist or believers) display.

The parental love is different from gods love, because it requires you to be-live something you don;t want to be-live.

And to add insult to injurty, guilt is evident as a mechamism in which to get you to feel that in order to love your parents. you must do as they require of you. Even when this means not being true to yourself

You cannot escape this conundrum because you dont have faith that god will take up where your parents left off...that is, should you 'disappoint them' they might even choose to disown you and then you would have to make it on your own.

Which you may be able to do or not.

But I am not sure that atheism allows for you to have 'faith' in your own decisions....

Now you might want to consider 'making up your own god' to surplant the obvious power games associated with your parents version, but this of course would entail you dropping the anthiest lable....so where to turn?

Love
Belief.

As an atheist, you should be entitled to believe in love?

Then there may be hope....

:)

Since it is traditionally religious folk who use guilt and god to try and control the directions of their childrens lives, and call this 'love'....

well maybe expand your understanding of love, tollerate their excesses with real love and nothing is a problem...they might not even notice you are an atheist because you display love.

You dont have to agree that love is god - but in general Love seems to get us through the probs - or maybe show us that nothing really is a problem?

If your mom and dad are genuine and haven;t abused you (which is totally another matter) then it shouldn;t be too hard to throw away your own conditions and love them even better than they have loved you ....you will still retain the freedom of your atheism becuase atheism doesn;t state that you cannot love.

It just states that there is no god.

You may find too that this relaxes you and gives you the personal power based upon your own decision to love, and this will remove the annoying distraction of having to go to church to boost the numbers.

And it may even signify that no one will ask you if you believe in god, because they will assume you do on account of your loving nature.

And if you are required say...to pray..you can talk to your 'love' and they won;t see the difference...'my love I ask of.."