Homeopathic teething tablets

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

My cousin keeps insisting that I simply must get these wonderful teething tablets for my son. They're "all natural", she says.

I thought it sounded like homeopathy, so I looked it up.
They've put up a special page to deal with some internet rumor that a child had a reaction to their product. I found it highly amusing, and thought I'd share it here.

This is the product: http://www.hylands.com/products/teething.php

This is the news release: http://www.hylands.com/news/teethinginfo.php

Here is one of my favorite quotes from the news release...

"To put homeopathic dosages in perspective, typically a 10-pound child would need to ingest 1,000 Hyland’s Teething Tablets (at least 6 bottles of 125 tablets) to exhibit even the first possible side effect of Belladonna. "

Basically, there entire argument comes down to the fact that there is so little anything in their homeopathic products, that it'd take tons of it to have any side effects.


I wonder how much they think you'd need to use to have any effect whatsoever?

[grayman]

"Can placebos cause side effects? If so, are the side effects real?" - George Carlin

[fromdownunder]

The only correct method is teething rusks spread thinly with Vegemite. Hooks 'em for life. Find an Australian household without a jar of Vegemite - they are very few and far between.

Norm

[Aitch]

I've heard that laudenum can be quite effective, but may lead to problems in later life - such as writing strange poetry about albatrosses, ravens etc. :eek:

[tapman]

Not great thinking monk. The belladona is only one ingredient of many that are in the product. It can be dangerous in large amounts, and theraputic in small amounts. I'ts comonly given as a prescription by doctors for stomach problems. I have used this product for my little girl for teething. It is effective for small amounts of pain and irritability. If the problem is severe, use something stronger. Ibuprofen. Again, safe in small doses, deadly in large. Not all homeopathics are nonsense, and are used in prescription drugs. Just because it says homeopathic doesn't mean we should turn an ignorant shoulder to it. do some research.

[Dragon]

Not great thinking monk. The belladona is only one ingredient of many that are in the product. It can be dangerous in large amounts, and theraputic in small amounts. I'ts comonly given as a prescription by doctors for stomach problems. I have used this product for my little girl for teething. It is effective for small amounts of pain and irritability. If the problem is severe, use something stronger. Ibuprofen. Again, safe in small doses, deadly in large. Not all homeopathics are nonsense, and are used in prescription drugs. Just because it says homeopathic doesn't mean we should turn an ignorant shoulder to it. do some research.Homoeopathy is utter nonsense from start to finish. However the link provided by madmonk gives the following list of ingredients -

Calcarea Phosphorica 3X HPUS - supports dentition
Chamomilla 3X HPUS - for irritability
Coffea Cruda 3X HPUS - for wakefulness and diuresis
Belladonna 3X HPUS (0.0003% Alkaloids) - for redness and inflammation
In a base of Lactose (milk sugar) NF.

Available in bottles of 125 quick dissolving tablets. Now as I understand it "3X" means a three-times repeated dilution of 1/10 therefore there will still be some of the various mother tinctures in the remedy. If it works it is because of the active ingredients present - not the nonsense system of homoeopathy.
Because there is no individualisation and a mixing of ingredients this remedy is not "homoeopathic" at all, certainly not as Hahnemann understood it.
Hyland's Teething Tablets are really a herbal remedy - I can only assume that they're calling them homoeopathic because they think they can sell more stuff that way.

[kerikiwi]

The belladona is only one ingredient of many that are in the product. It can be dangerous in large amounts, and theraputic in small amounts.

Belladonna is dangerous. It is not a.k.a deadly nightshade for nothing.
But in the amounts found in homeopathetic remedies, it is not therapeutic, it is inert.
It is not effective for small amounts of pain. It is not effective.
It seems effective for small amounts of pain because the small amounts of pain are self-resolving.

All homeopathics are nonsense and are not used in prescription drugs.
Just because it says homeopathic means we should turn a knowledgeable shoulder to it.

[Mojo]

Here is one of my favorite quotes from the news release...

"To put homeopathic dosages in perspective, typically a 10-pound child would need to ingest 1,000 Hyland’s Teething Tablets (at least 6 bottles of 125 tablets) to exhibit even the first possible side effect of Belladonna. "

Basically, there entire argument comes down to the fact that there is so little anything in their homeopathic products, that it'd take tons of it to have any side effects.


The word "side" in that sentence is redundant.

I notice that the "Calcarea Phosphorica" (calcium phosphate, I assume - they sound so much more authoritative and less "sciency" if you latinise the names, don't they) is at the same potency as the belladonna. Presumably the child would have to take 6 bottles before it would do much in the way of "support dentition".

Those are all pretty low potency, by the way: 3X is only a 1 in 1000 dilution. The dilutions most commonly used (certainly the only ones I see on individual remedies in shops) are 6X (1 in a million) and 30C (1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000).

And it's not proper homoeopathy anyway. If you were to condict a DBPC trial of it and get a negative result, homoeopaths would just say it doesn't work because it isn't individualised*. For some reason they never object to this stuff being in the shops though.

*Of course, if you got a [i]positive result, it would show that homoeopathy works. ;)

[Dragon]

The word "side" in that sentence is redundant.

I notice that the "Calcarea Phosphorica" (calcium phosphate, I assume - they sound so much more authoritative and less "sciency" if you latinise the names, don't they) is at the same potency as the belladonna. Presumably the child would have to take 6 bottles before it would do much in the way of "support dentition".

Those are all pretty low potency, by the way: 3X is only a 1 in 1000 dilution. The dilutions most commonly used (certainly the only ones I see on individual remedies in shops) are 6X (1 in a million) and 30C (1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000).

And it's not proper homoeopathy anyway. If you were to condict a DBPC trial of it and get a negative result, homoeopaths would just say it doesn't work because it isn't individualised*. For some reason they never object to this stuff being in the shops though.

*Of course, if you got a [i]positive result, it would show that homoeopathy works. ;)Quite right. Also, I can see how Belladonna and Coffea Cruda fit in with the wacky "Law of Similars" but Calcarea Phosphorica for dentition and Chamomilla for irritability? What's homoeopathic about that? They really do make it up as they go along, don't they?

[Mojo]

Chamomilla for irritability? What's homoeopathic about that?


Anything homoeopathic ought to work for irritability. ;)

[tapman]

Belladonna is dangerous. It is not a.k.a deadly nightshade for nothing.
But in the amounts found in homeopathetic remedies, it is not therapeutic, it is inert.
It is not effective for small amounts of pain. It is not effective.
It seems effective for small amounts of pain because the small amounts of pain are self-resolving.

All homeopathics are nonsense and are not used in prescription drugs.
Just because it says homeopathic means we should turn a knowledgeable shoulder to it.

I was hoping you had some research to back up your claim.

[tapman]

Belladonna is dangerous. It is not a.k.a deadly nightshade for nothing.
But in the amounts found in homeopathetic remedies, it is not therapeutic, it is inert.
It is not effective for small amounts of pain. It is not effective.
It seems effective for small amounts of pain because the small amounts of pain are self-resolving.

All homeopathics are nonsense and are not used in prescription drugs.
Just because it says homeopathic means we should turn a knowledgeable shoulder to it.

My good friend, belladona is a prescription drug. I know, I have prescribed it. there have been many studies on homeopathic treatments that have proven to show results.
This is an argument that you will learn over time is a loser. More and more docs are using a combo of homeopathic treatments and conventional med treatments to treat everything from the common cold to Cancer. THe next time you are in your local drug store, look at the best treatment modern medicine has in combating localized virus. (cold eaze) Proven over and over. would you consider this homeopathic? Do a little research on pharm drugs- many of them originally come from plant sources (homeopathic enough for ya). check out JAMA from time to time to get a better understanding. Lots of research on there. You just might learn something about the direction of many treatments in medicine. Don't just come on an intelligent site and make uneducated coments. There are too many smart people here to do that. BTW the homeopathic teething treatments that are best are those with clove, it works as a safe topical anesthetic. Homeopathic. HMMMM

[Crundy]

From the site:
Belladonna is included in the Tablets to ease the redness, inflammation and discomfort of the child’s gum that often occurs during the teething process.

Wtf? Since when does a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor antagonist act as an anti-inflammatory?

[Crundy]

there have been many studies on homeopathic treatments that have proven to show results.

Could you provide some links to some please? We arn't aware of any.

[Dragon]

My good friend, belladona is a prescription drug. I know, I have prescribed it. there have been many studies on homeopathic treatments that have proven to show results.
This is an argument that you will learn over time is a loser. More and more docs are using a combo of homeopathic treatments and conventional med treatments to treat everything from the common cold to Cancer. THe next time you are in your local drug store, look at the best treatment modern medicine has in combating localized virus. (cold eaze) Proven over and over. would you consider this homeopathic? Do a little research on pharm drugs- many of them originally come from plant sources (homeopathic enough for ya). check out JAMA from time to time to get a better understanding. Lots of research on there. You just might learn something about the direction of many treatments in medicine. Don't just come on an intelligent site and make uneducated coments. There are too many smart people here to do that. BTW the homeopathic teething treatments that are best are those with clove, it works as a safe topical anesthetic. Homeopathic. HMMMMYour post raises a lot of questions - but perhaps you could just answer one for now.

Please explain how the use of cloves as a topical anaesthetic is homoeopathic.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

Not great thinking monk. The belladona is only one ingredient of many that are in the product. It can be dangerous in large amounts, and theraputic in small amounts. I'ts comonly given as a prescription by doctors for stomach problems. I have used this product for my little girl for teething. It is effective for small amounts of pain and irritability. If the problem is severe, use something stronger. Ibuprofen. Again, safe in small doses, deadly in large. Not all homeopathics are nonsense, and are used in prescription drugs. Just because it says homeopathic doesn't mean we should turn an ignorant shoulder to it. do some research.


Erm...yeah.
I know what belladonna is.
I realize it can be dangerous in large amounts, thanks.
I think you missed the point of my post.

I was never considering buying this crap, I just thought I'd amuse myself by going to their website...and low and behold I find them posting an article that explains homeopathy as not having enough of any of it's active ingredients to cause any effect. *Insert laughter here*

Out of curiosity, why in the world would I want to waste $7.00 on a product that does not work as well as ibuprofen, when ibuprofen barely helps at all?

[hipparchia]

Welcome to the forum, tapman.

My good friend, belladona is a prescription drug. I know, I have prescribed it. there have been many studies on homeopathic treatments that have proven to show results.

And there have been studies that show zilch results. The forum has had this discussion many times.

This is an argument that you will learn over time is a loser. More and more docs are using a combo of homeopathic treatments and conventional med treatments to treat everything from the common cold to Cancer.

Why do they bother with the conventional treatments at all?

The next time you are in your local drug store, look at the best treatment modern medicine has in combating localized virus. (cold eaze) Proven over and over. would you consider this homeopathic?

The best treatment for me has been a combination of NSAIDS, decongestants and sometimes antibiotics. Do you mean herbal preparations? Those are not necessarily homeopathic.

Do a little research on pharm drugs- many of them originally come from plant sources (homeopathic enough for ya).

No. It has an active ingredient, even though it came from a plant. I think you are confusing phytotherapy (legit) with those overly-dilluted pills that are the actual homeopathic remedy.

check out JAMA from time to time to get a better understanding. Lots of research on there. You just might learn something about the direction of many treatments in medicine. Don't just come on an intelligent site and make uneducated coments. There are too many smart people here to do that. BTW the homeopathic teething treatments that are best are those with clove, it works as a safe topical anesthetic. Homeopathic. HMMMM

When you get to know the site better, you will see the most educated around here have seen, read and researched enough of homeopathy to call ********. And kerikiwi's comments will seem to all forumites more educated than yours.

Again, do you differentiate between herbal drugs and homeopathic drugs?

[tapman]

Erm...yeah.
I know what belladonna is.
I realize it can be dangerous in large amounts, thanks.
I think you missed the point of my post.

I was never considering buying this crap, I just thought I'd amuse myself by going to their website...and low and behold I find them posting an article that explains homeopathy as not having enough of any of it's active ingredients to cause any effect. *Insert laughter here*

Out of curiosity, why in the world would I want to waste $7.00 on a product that does not work as well as ibuprofen, when ibuprofen barely helps at all?

I'm sorry the Ibuprofen doesn't work. It worked wonders for my little girl. You might also try one of the topical numbing agents in combo with it so everyone can get a little sleep. Good luck.

[tapman]

Welcome to the forum, tapman.



And there have been studies that show zilch results. The forum has had this discussion many times.



Why do they bother with the conventional treatments at all?



The best treatment for me has been a combination of NSAIDS, decongestants and sometimes antibiotics. Do you mean herbal preparations? Those are not necessarily homeopathic.



No. It has an active ingredient, even though it came from a plant. I think you are confusing phytotherapy (legit) with those overly-dilluted pills that are the actual homeopathic remedy.



When you get to know the site better, you will see the most educated around here have seen, read and researched enough of homeopathy to call ********. And kerikiwi's comments will seem to all forumites more educated than yours.

Again, do you differentiate between herbal drugs and homeopathic drugs?

No, no one in medicine differentiates homeopathic drugs, herbals, or any natural medicine at all. I guess I'm used to talking with other docs, and the lingo is just about anything that is in this realm is coined homeopathic. If anyone here uses homeopathic in the pure sense as it was used years ago, then they aren't using the term as it is used currently in modern conventional medicine. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Just so all of you know, there is, and never has been any studies that have supported homeopathy in the traditional sense. However, the concept that the body will develope natural resistance to anything similar to what is afflicting them is a very contemporary idea in modern medicine. while the methods used today are quite different, there have been advancements in this ideal. Interesting stuff.

Homeopathy in a traditional sense is an archaic idea, and I'm shocked that anyone here is actually talking about it. I signed up because everyone seemed to be a bit more evolved than to consider the dark ages of medicine as some type of interesting topic.

Get with it guys. Modern medicine just uses the term, not the concept.

[tapman]

By the way Hipp, NSAIDs, decongestants, and antibiotics will do nothing to cure, or change the duration of localized virus.

Might make you feel like you are better, but will do nothing to combat the virus.

I sincerely hope the forumites do consider kerikiwi's comments more educated than mine, afer all he is a surgeon isn't he?

[tapman]

NOTE: It would be irresponsible of me not to mention NSAIDs are extremely dangerous! Especially in infants. Use caution. read the directions carefully, and don't ever over dose, or give a dose before the recomended time on the directions. I have had one patient DIE from an overdose of ibuprofen, and one spend a month in the hospital due to an over toxicity of tylenol. (he almost died)

[EHocking]

No, no one in medicine differentiates homeopathic drugs, herbals, or any natural medicine at all. I guess I'm used to talking with other docs, and the lingo is just about anything that is in this realm is coined homeopathic. If anyone here uses homeopathic in the pure sense as it was used years ago, then they aren't using the term as it is used currently in modern conventional medicine. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The misunderstanding appears to be all yours.

My GP and the UK's National Health Service (http://www.library.nhs.uk/cam/) differentiate between these approaches to remedies, as does the US's FDA (http://www.fda.gov/cber/gdlns/altmed.htm#ii) and NIH (http://nccam.nih.gov/health/whatiscam/).

Just because you and your associates are OK with sloppiness with definitions when prescribing drugs, it does not mean that the rest of the world is has so little regard.
Just so all of you know, there is, and never has been any studies that have supported homeopathy in the traditional sense. I think that you will find that a great number of posters here are very aware of the failure of homeopathetic "drugs".However, the concept that the body will develope natural resistance to anything similar to what is afflicting them is a very contemporary idea in modern medicine. while the methods used today are quite different, there have been advancements in this ideal. Interesting stuff.

Homeopathy in a traditional sense is an archaic idea, and I'm shocked that anyone here is actually talking about it. I signed up because everyone seemed to be a bit more evolved than to consider the dark ages of medicine as some type of interesting topic.

Get with it guys. Modern medicine just uses the term, not the concept.THis is a demonstrably inaccurate generalism.

[Rolfe]

Tapman, have you any idea how many people on this forum have medical qualifications? Way enough to call BS on most of what you've posted.

You'll find more of them in the Science and Medicine forum area though.

Rolfe.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

I'm sorry the Ibuprofen doesn't work. It worked wonders for my little girl. You might also try one of the topical numbing agents in combo with it so everyone can get a little sleep. Good luck.


I already do this, it doesn't help.
Topical numbing agents only work for a few moments at best, anyway, and the amount of drooling a 5 month old is capable of doesn't exactly help.

What sort of medical qualifications do you have, anyway?
I ask because you've mentioned prescribing belladonna.

[EHocking]

NOTE: It would be irresponsible of me not to mention NSAIDs are extremely dangerous! Especially in infants. Use caution. read the directions carefully, and don't ever over dose, or give a dose before the recomended time on the directions. I have had one patient DIE from an overdose of ibuprofen, and one spend a month in the hospital due to an over toxicity of tylenol. (he almost died)was the overdose of ibuprofen deliberate or accidental?

Severe toxicity of ibuprofen is reportedly rare. (http://ccforum.com/content/10/2/R44) According to this report in 2006, this person was the first person ever in the UK to die from an overdose of ibuprofen, of only 10 other deaths where ibuprofen may have been a factor.

"Severe toxicity is rare following deliberate self-poisoning with ibuprofen, and patients are usually either asymptomatic or develop only mild gastrointestinal toxicity. Although there have been nine other reported fatalities, co-existent factors have probably contributed to all of these deaths."

Note that in this case it was determined that the person injested up to 132 800mg tablets.

Very hard to do accidentally, so I find your warning on NSAIDS to be slightly hysterical.

A hysteria that obviously (to me) started the restrictions of sale of more than 16 tabs of paracetemol at any one purchase in the UK.

[tapman]

It is interesting how you talk out of your rectums so easily. I know what and how we talk, but for some reason you think you are right. You are not. I am a doc. I know, you are not, you don't know. Easy. There is your proof. You have no proof, just a bunch of nonsesnse that you continue to spew forth instead of fact. THe misunderstanding is really all of yours on this forum. Homeopathy in its true sense is a rediculous topic. Talking about it in the way you do makes you rediculous. Please stop while you are behind and stop making yourself look foolish. You can argue with me all day, but you just don't know how physicians talk to one another unless you are one. Rolfe, unless you have your so called med qualifications(i dont even know what that means exactly) then just try not to speak. You have no proof of what you are claiming. Ba a good little skeptic and show me your proof. Now please stop talking about this rediculous subject on get on with something with substance. It really brings the IQ of this forum down to a level I'm not sure I can tollerate.

[tapman]

Feel free to reply. I am not going to read this anymore. It would just make me as rediculous as you. Sorry I have the inner strength not to continue on with this. Do you? I highly doubt it. Prove me wrong. I know you are weak.

[EHocking]

...You have no proof of what you are claiming. Ba a good little skeptic and show me your proof. ... It really brings the IQ of this forum down to a level I'm not sure I can tollerate.
I can spell irony better than you can spell tolerate.

How about answering the points raised in my posts rather than embarassing yourself with ad hominem attacks.

[Mashuna]

It is interesting how you talk out of your rectums so easily. I know what and how we talk, but for some reason you think you are right. You are not. I am a doc. I know, you are not, you don't know. Easy. There is your proof. You have no proof, just a bunch of nonsesnse that you continue to spew forth instead of fact. THe misunderstanding is really all of yours on this forum. Homeopathy in its true sense is a rediculous topic. Talking about it in the way you do makes you rediculous. Please stop while you are behind and stop making yourself look foolish. You can argue with me all day, but you just don't know how physicians talk to one another unless you are one. Rolfe, unless you have your so called med qualifications(i dont even know what that means exactly) then just try not to speak. You have no proof of what you are claiming. Ba a good little skeptic and show me your proof. Now please stop talking about this rediculous subject on get on with something with substance. It really brings the IQ of this forum down to a level I'm not sure I can tollerate.


I'm assuming that you're a doctor with english as a second language then?

[Cuddles]

I'm assuming that you're a doctor with english as a second language then?

I'm assuming he's not a doctor at all. After all, he's provided as much evidence for that claim as he has for all his others, and he demonstrates about as much medical knowledge as a wet sponge. Although he certainly has the arrogance present in some doctors. "I'm a doctor so I'm right and you're all a bunch of idiots who can stop talking now.". Brilliant. Just think, if doctors had used that argument for the last couple of centuries we'd still think drilling hopes in people's heads was a neat idea.:rolleyes:

[Lisa Simpson]

Hyland's Teething Tablets are really a herbal remedy - I can only assume that they're calling them homoeopathic because they think they can sell more stuff that way.

In America, some non-homeopathic remedies are sold as homeopathic to get past the FDA. For example, Zicam is 2X, but sold as homeopathic.

[Deetee]

Goodbye troll tapman.

I don't know where you work or where you qualified, but as one medic to another, all I can say is that you are unrepresentative of the doctors I associate with. A high school student would have better knowledge than you as to what actually constitutes homeopathy. You clearly don't have a clue about this, do you?

[Camillus]

A hysteria that obviously (to me) started the restrictions of sale of more than 16 tabs of paracetemol at any one purchase in the UK.

I don't know if I'd agree that the restrictions on the sale of paracetamol (acetemiophen) is hysterical. Overdose with paracetamol is the commenst cause of acute liver failure in the UK and it it makes sense to try and restrict the damage which can occur with as few as 20 tablets.

Whether the restriction on numbers is effective or not is arguable, from what I've read numbers fell initially but are now climbing again.

[Worm]

Tapman, on the off-chance that are still reading this thread, please don't go off in a huff, just try to read with an open mind...

Yes, the general attitude on this forum tends to be anti-homeopathy, but not for no reason - it is based on a lot of experience of examining and reviewing the output of homeopathy trials, publication and so on.

Many of the posters here are medically qualified, and have good and valid reasons for having an informed opinion on how 'the medical profession' view homeopathy. They may not agree with you, but such is life - they are entitled to their opinion as much as you are.

I know from experience that it is very easy to fall into the trap of assuming that you know more about a subject than an essentially anonymous poster, but it's rarely the case on thios forum, and I now approach every post I make with the assumption that most people are going to know more about the subject than me - which is usually the case.

All views are welcome here - just don't expect to go unchallenged (particularly not on homeopathy) - challenge is a good thing...honest :)

[Soapy Sam]

I'm assuming he's not a doctor at all. After all, he's provided as much evidence for that claim as he has for all his others, and he demonstrates about as much medical knowledge as a wet sponge. Although he certainly has the arrogance present in some doctors. "I'm a doctor so I'm right and you're all a bunch of idiots who can stop talking now.". Brilliant. Just think, if doctors had used that argument for the last couple of centuries we'd still think drilling hopes in people's heads was a neat idea.:rolleyes:
Well, drilling holes in certain heads might let a little light in.

I think Cuddles, yer man has boggled you with his prose. If I read him aright, tapman is assigning the attitudes expressed in the bolded sentence to the arrogant meds on this forum, who are desperately defending their sacred dogma against his brilliant insights. He, being in the know about such things, needs no medical qualifications to expound thereon.

Rolfe is off boating this weekend, so tapman may survive this little piece of nonsense.

[Loss Leader]

These teething tablets are utter bunk. To prove the point to my cousin, I swallowed an entire bottle of them. She was very unhappy with me. They, of course, had no effect other than to make my cousin leave just as firmly convinced that they work as she had been.

[Crundy]

It is interesting how you talk out of your rectums so easily. I know what and how we talk, but for some reason you think you are right. You are not. I am a doc.

I don't believe you (unless your doctorate was purchased from a spammer, you certainly talk like one).

The main confusion you seem to have is that you are attributing homeopathy to something else. Please look up the definition of homeopathy.

[EHocking]

I don't know if I'd agree that the restrictions on the sale of paracetamol (acetemiophen) is hysterical. Overdose with paracetamol is the commenst cause of acute liver failure in the UK and it it makes sense to try and restrict the damage which can occur with as few as 20 tablets.

Whether the restriction on numbers is effective or not is arguable, from what I've read numbers fell initially but are now climbing again.
Note my bolding. Substance abuse should not be used as an argument to say a drug is inherently dangerous.

This is exactly what our friend tapman did.

As for the UK restriction, yes, I believe it is absurd. On my 300m walk from the Tube to my house tonight I could call into no less than 7 retail places (2 of them chemists) and purchase a packet of paracetemol AND a packet of ibuprofen (and probably aspirin) in each of them, no questions.

But that is merely my opinion. These reports (2004 update to a 1998 initial report) show that it has been effective. (http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/abstracts.html#6)

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

These teething tablets are utter bunk. To prove the point to my cousin, I swallowed an entire bottle of them. She was very unhappy with me. They, of course, had no effect other than to make my cousin leave just as firmly convinced that they work as she had been.


I wonder if your cousin and my cousin are related...

[Loss Leader]

I wonder if your cousin and my cousin are related...


Well, since I'm your sock, I'd say so.


Watch us both get banned for that joke. I think the Greening thing has everybody on edge.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

Who or what is a Greening?
What did I miss, and have you got linkage?

[AliasN]

Oh, I'm glad I'm not the only one in the dark, madmonk. I was wondering myself...

[TX50]

My mummy used to put teething rings in the freezer cabinet of the
fridge for me. No drugs for me - homeophobic or otherwise.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

My mummy used to put teething rings in the freezer cabinet of the
fridge for me. No drugs for me - homeophobic or otherwise.

You know, chewing on teethers just makes him more annoyed.
During the day time, distraction works best with Jack.

[kerikiwi]

It is interesting how you talk out of your rectums so easily. I know what and how we talk, but for some reason you think you are right. You are not. I am a doc. I know, you are not, you don't know. Easy. There is your proof. You have no proof, just a bunch of nonsesnse that you continue to spew forth instead of fact. THe misunderstanding is really all of yours on this forum. Homeopathy in its true sense is a rediculous topic. Talking about it in the way you do makes you rediculous. Please stop while you are behind and stop making yourself look foolish. You can argue with me all day, but you just don't know how physicians talk to one another unless you are one. Rolfe, unless you have your so called med qualifications(i dont even know what that means exactly) then just try not to speak. You have no proof of what you are claiming. Ba a good little skeptic and show me your proof. Now please stop talking about this rediculous subject on get on with something with substance. It really brings the IQ of this forum down to a level I'm not sure I can tollerate.

This is too good to pass up...
Tapman suggests we get on with something with substance.
I suggest Tapman gets off whatever substance s/he is on. That might bring the IQ of this forum up to a level s/he can tollerate.(sic)

[Chris Haynes]

...Out of curiosity, why in the world would I want to waste $7.00 on a product that does not work as well as ibuprofen, when ibuprofen barely helps at all?

Most often the sugar in the homeopathic pills is the only thing providing "comfort". But that is not enough to spend money on the cruddy stuff.

My mummy used to put teething rings in the freezer cabinet of the
fridge for me. No drugs for me - homeophobic or otherwise.

You know, chewing on teethers just makes him more annoyed.
During the day time, distraction works best with Jack.

Aw, bummer... the fortunate thing is that they grow out of it. (then they turn into teenagers, that is a whole other set of headaches)

I was going to suggest taking a clean terry washcloth, getting it wet and sticking it in the freezer, then letting him chew on it. That would provide some relief, and the rough terry fabric helps the teeth cut through the gums.

[TheDaver]

OT:
Am I the only one who finds the cognitive dissonance amusing?

Homeopathic products have no negative effects because they’re diluted beyond nonexistence, but they have positive effects just because they say so.

[Jackalgirl]

It's not the "active" ingredients that cause a change in the kids' moods.

It's the inactive ingredient: lactose. In other words, the homeopathic stuff is floating in a base of sugar.

This same homeopathic teething stuff was pushed by the family services teachers who teach what is, essentially, "intro to childbirth and parenting" class on the base on which I live. It's sold at the local commissary and what struck me was that the teacher gushingly described how she's heard (note that -- "she's heard") that the stuff works so well it works immediately. Wow, immediately!

So obviously it's nothing that's being ingested, because that would require some time to be digested, right? It's the sugar. I'd be willing to bet that if a kid were fussy from teething and you put some plain sugar into his or her mouth, it would be immediately distracting. And cheaper.

Edited to add: bah! HCN beat me to it! Well, what he or she said. : )

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

I was going to suggest taking a clean terry washcloth, getting it wet and sticking it in the freezer, then letting him chew on it. That would provide some relief, and the rough terry fabric helps the teeth cut through the gums.

I do this as well, and sometimes it works for a few minutes.
I've also got those little mesh feeders...I put frozen peach slices in them and let him gnaw away.

My biggest hope for him is that he is nothing like me.
I started teething at 4 months and didn't get a tooth until I was 9 months old...

OT:
Am I the only one who finds the cognitive dissonance amusing?

Homeopathic products have no negative effects because they’re diluted beyond nonexistence, but they have positive effects just because they say so.

No, you aren't!
That's why I posted it in the first place.
Too funny to pass up.

[Mojo]

It is interesting how you talk out of your rectums so easily. I know what and how we talk, but for some reason you think you are right. You are not. I am a doc. I know, you are not, you don't know. Easy. There is your proof. You have no proof, just a bunch of nonsesnse that you continue to spew forth instead of fact. THe misunderstanding is really all of yours on this forum. Homeopathy in its true sense is a rediculous topic. Talking about it in the way you do makes you rediculous. Please stop while you are behind and stop making yourself look foolish. You can argue with me all day, but you just don't know how physicians talk to one another unless you are one. Rolfe, unless you have your so called med qualifications(i dont even know what that means exactly) then just try not to speak. You have no proof of what you are claiming. Ba a good little skeptic and show me your proof. Now please stop talking about this rediculous subject on get on with something with substance. It really brings the IQ of this forum down to a level I'm not sure I can tollerate.
Feel free to reply. I am not going to read this anymore. It would just make me as rediculous as you. Sorry I have the inner strength not to continue on with this. Do you? I highly doubt it. Prove me wrong. I know you are weak.


And tapman's very next post?Although Nye was right about everything he came off to me as being rude and condescending to the other guests. performance like this really hurt us skeptics because of the unlikability factor. Such a smart and likable guy to begin with could have done better with some manners. He crushed the other guests, and made them look stupid, I wish he would have been a little more polite.



...You have no proof of what you are claiming. Ba a good little skeptic and show me your proof. ... It really brings the IQ of this forum down to a level I'm not sure I can tollerate.
I can spell irony better than you can spell tolerate.


Indeed.

[TheDaver]

I am a doc.
Of what?

$50 says it isn’t medicine. Any takers?

[Hawthorne]

When I was a baby, I refused teething rings and biter biscuits. I wanted the iron fire poker in the living room, so my parents scrubbed it clean and gave it to me - there are pictures. No sugar, no magic, just something hard to gnaw on until my fangs came out. I'd never heard of homeopathic teething tablets with, what is it? belladonna? in them...holy crap.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

Jack likes the rusks and people's fingers to gnaw on...for a few minutes, anyway.
It always seems to get him angrier after a few minutes.
I just hope he gets a tooth soon!

[Chris Haynes]

Don't worry... he will get a tooth, the teething will go away.

Then you will get to go on to crawling, walking and climbing! I actually thought it was too quiet, only to go upstairs to see the then three year old child on top of the dresser next to an open second storey window (which had a lock to let it open only three inches, but hubby had it completely open! I yelled at hubby!).

And right now my 14 year old daughter and her friend are roasting miniture marshmallows in the kitchen over a candle.

[Nursefoxfire]

Madmonk, I'm really sorry to hear about your baby's teething issues. We went through this a few months ago with our darling boy. He HATED teething rings, anything hard or frozen, loathed baby Orajel, etc...

What finally worked for him (and it was a temporary fix at best, but sometimes enough to allow him to fall into an exhausted sleep), was to rub his gums with a mixture of Infant Tylenol and Nighttime Baby Orajel, and also use the Hylands Teething Tablets for him to work around in his mouth. No, we didn't believe they had any medicinal quality whatsoever, but the action of him working them around and chewing on them seemed to relax him. Plus, the teething tablets are quick-dissolving so he could lay down with a mouthful of the little buggers and fall asleep and we wouldn't worry about him choking on them.

As others have told you, this too shall pass, but it's a living hell on all of you while it happens. Just wait til the molars come in, it's another round of agony and shrieking for him!

[Naughtyhippo]

Madmonk, I'm really sorry to hear about your baby's teething issues. We went through this a few months ago with our darling boy. He HATED teething rings, anything hard or frozen, loathed baby Orajel, etc...

What finally worked for him (and it was a temporary fix at best, but sometimes enough to allow him to fall into an exhausted sleep), was to rub his gums with a mixture of Infant Tylenol and Nighttime Baby Orajel, and also use the Hylands Teething Tablets for him to work around in his mouth. No, we didn't believe they had any medicinal quality whatsoever, but the action of him working them around and chewing on them seemed to relax him. Plus, the teething tablets are quick-dissolving so he could lay down with a mouthful of the little buggers and fall asleep and we wouldn't worry about him choking on them.

As others have told you, this too shall pass, but it's a living hell on all of you while it happens. Just wait til the molars come in, it's another round of agony and shrieking for him!


I'm at the molar stage! What do I do now?!

Babies seem to attract sCAM remedies like flies to fecal matter. I had to gurn politely when Gripe Water got bought and thrust at me. It's just sweet water but it's supposed to cure colic?! Mind you, I looked up the original ingredients, back in the days before legislation, and it would knock a baby for six.

[Rolfe]

Has Tapman gone? Oh, what a shame.

That was the least effective pretence to be a doctor I've seen around here for quite some time. (Doesn't even understand the term "medical qualifications", which may explain a lot.)

Rolfe.

[Normal Dude]

Has Tapman gone? Oh, what a shame.

That was the least effective pretence to be a doctor I've seen around here for quite some time. (Doesn't even understand the term "medical qualifications", which may explain a lot.)

Rolfe.

I think he quickly realized that we weren't as stupid as he assumed we were and would call his bluff.

[Cuddles]

Don't worry... he will get a tooth

A whole tooth? Nothing but?

I think Cuddles, yer man has boggled you with his prose. If I read him aright, tapman is assigning the attitudes expressed in the bolded sentence to the arrogant meds on this forum, who are desperately defending their sacred dogma against his brilliant insights. He, being in the know about such things, needs no medical qualifications to expound thereon.

You know, I think you may be right. In which case my first sentence was entirely correct. Hooray. Although that just makes his argument even worse, since it now seems to read "I'm not a doctor so I'm right and you're all a bunch of idiots who can stop talking now.". Appeal to authority may be a fallacy in some circumstances, but at least it tries to make an argument. Appeal to lack of authority seems pretty much doomed from the start.

[Psiload]

Has Tapman gone? Oh, what a shame.

That was the least effective pretence to be a doctor I've seen around here for quite some time. (Doesn't even understand the term "medical qualifications", which may explain a lot.)

Rolfe.

Tapman attempted to continue the charade in another thread. Hilarity ensued.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117998

[Normal Dude]

Tapman attempted to continue the charade in another thread. Hilarity ensued.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117998

Thanks, that was pretty entertaining.

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

Tapman attempted to continue the charade in another thread. Hilarity ensued.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117998

I don't know any, but I'd like to think oncologists are a little more caring and not complete a-holes, you know?

[Rolfe]

Wow, I just read that! My brain went into meltdown.

This little sentence was instructive.

One of my friends in Florida works in a cutting edge clinic you should learn about. Parathyroid.com is a good place to learn something. You will see on that site that cancer and parathyroid disease have almost nothing in common.


So, my take on it is that he asked his friend in Florida, or maybe just looked at the web site, to cook up some sort of speciality story that he hoped might impress posters here. I suspect the "friend" mops the floors or cuts the lawns or something.

I don't know what his first clinical scenario was about - if your temperature is down by a couple of degrees I might suspect you're heading for being dead. The second bit was obviously about either hyperparathyroidism or pseudohyperparathyroidism. I very much doubt that he knows the difference. (I'm a bit hazy about why he mentioned vitamin D, as that wouldn't be considered a very relevant test, but them later on he seemed to concede that - making it up as he went along I suspect.)

He did mention testing parathormone levels, but just as interesting if not more so would be testing for PRP - parathormone-related-peptide. That one will show you whether the diagnosis is in fact pseudohyperparathyroidism, which is usually caused by a non-parathyroid malignancy secreting a peptide which is biologically active as parathormone, and so causes hypercalcaemia.

I think in a real case the GP might get a bit more testing done to narrow down the cause of the hypercalcaemia a bit more. Depending on the results, if it was a true hyperparathyroidism then indeed an endocrinologist would be the way to go. A pseudohyperparathyroidism case may end up straight with the oncologist, as might someone with a hypercalcaemia due to bone metastases of another sort of neoplasm (for example prostate or mammary).

Sorry to derail and I suppose this post will get moved to AAH, but since I missed the fun while it was happening I just wanted to add my tuppenceworth.

Rolfe.

[fls]

Tapman attempted to continue the charade in another thread. Hilarity ensued.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117998

Based on a careful consideration of all the evidence, I'm going to call it. She/he is a homeopath* who is doing a parody of how they think a medical doctor would react, in order to discredit medicine.

Linda

*or at least a naturopath

[Nursefoxfire]

I'm at the molar stage! What do I do now?!

Babies seem to attract sCAM remedies like flies to fecal matter. I had to gurn politely when Gripe Water got bought and thrust at me. It's just sweet water but it's supposed to cure colic?! Mind you, I looked up the original ingredients, back in the days before legislation, and it would knock a baby for six.

Gripe Water (and all the other colic remedies) was a COMPLETE rip-off!

As for the molar stage, I sympathize, as I'm at that stage now with my darling boy. Rubbing nighttime Baby Orajel and Infant Tylenol on his molar "bumps" seems to help, although it's like putting one's hand in the mouth of a very angry crocodile. I make sure to count my fingers when I'm done :) Another thing that seems to sooth his pain is giving him a toothbrush to gnaw on, and encouraging him to rub the bristles over his teeth and gums (also encourages good future dental hygiene, I hope!).

I think the reason babies (the parents of babies, actually) are such easy targets for homeopathic and naturopathic crap is that we have this feeling of utter helplessness. The being who depends on us for everything in the world is in agony, their little face crumpled in pain and shrieks, and we can't DO anything for them. So we load up on everything in the drugstore to try to find a solution that gives them and us some peace. I think that adults tend to ignore their own aches and pains FAR longer than they'll want their child to suffer.

[fls]

Tapman attempted to continue the charade in another thread. Hilarity ensued.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=117998

Your wife has probably already confirmed this, but Tapman got too many things wrong (e.g. endocrinologists would be consulted for parathyroid tumours and most would be treated by an endocrinologist (if followed by a specialist) except for those few that fail medical therapy, an oncologist would not be consulted for the further treatment of non-malignant parathyroid tumours but rather a general surgeon or a head-and-neck surgeon, she/he mentioned the results of calcium and vitamin D levels when the appropriate lab tests would be calcium and PTH levels (going on to measure PRP as mentioned by Rolfe, depending upon the results), she/he makes fun of the measurement of phosphorus yet it is reasonable to take this measurement (more reasonable than vit. D, anyway), doctors are teased about their hand-writing and their excessive use of abbreviations but not their spelling and grammar, etc.) to really be even a medical doctor, let alone an oncologist. It's cool how quickly everyone was able to pick up on the charade (not to take away from the nice job you did, though).

Linda

[Nursefoxfire]

So, my take on it is that he asked his friend in Florida, or maybe just looked at the web site, to cook up some sort of speciality story that he hoped might impress posters here. I suspect the "friend" mops the floors or cuts the lawns or something.



Here, I fixed his paragraph for you:

One of my friends in Florida works in a cutting [lawn]edge[s] in a clinic

[Professor Yaffle]

I'm pretty sure that old fashioned gripe water "worked" -as in the baby didn't cry so much. But now that you can only buy alcohol free versions, they have lost their active ingredient...

[Nursefoxfire]

I'm pretty sure that old fashioned gripe water "worked" -as in the baby didn't cry so much. But now that you can only buy alcohol free versions, they have lost their active ingredient...

I believe you're correct. My parents tell fondly of the days when my oldest sister (in the late '50s) was teething and Dad used to rub brandy on her gums. They said it knocked her right out!

[Hawthorne]

I believe you're correct. My parents tell fondly of the days when my oldest sister (in the late '50s) was teething and Dad used to rub brandy on her gums. They said it knocked her right out!

Tonight, I'm going to have me some gripe water...and I'm not even teething.

[Psiload]

Your wife has probably already confirmed this, but Tapman got too many things wrong (e.g. endocrinologists would be consulted for parathyroid tumours and most would be treated by an endocrinologist (if followed by a specialist) except for those few that fail medical therapy, an oncologist would not be consulted for the further treatment of non-malignant parathyroid tumours but rather a general surgeon or a head-and-neck surgeon, she/he mentioned the results of calcium and vitamin D levels when the appropriate lab tests would be calcium and PTH levels (going on to measure PRP as mentioned by Rolfe, depending upon the results), she/he makes fun of the measurement of phosphorus yet it is reasonable to take this measurement (more reasonable than vit. D, anyway), doctors are teased about their hand-writing and their excessive use of abbreviations but not their spelling and grammar, etc.) to really be even a medical doctor, let alone an oncologist. It's cool how quickly everyone was able to pick up on the charade (not to take away from the nice job you did, though).

Linda

Check this out. Tapman posted...

Ok dummies, endo's don't handle tumors. Thyroid yes, parathyroid no. If the three indicators are off, It means tumor. Why would you bring an endo in to a discussion on removing a tumor.

and...

Since you need to be educated- and I'm very proud someone your age would take the time to do the research you have- One of my friends in Florida works in a cutting edge clinic you should learn about. Parathyroid.com is a good place to learn something.

I took tapman's advice, and looked at Parathyroid.com. In doing so, I learned some interesting things...

Dr. James Norman of Parathyroid.com, "...treats more patients with parathyroid disease than any other doctor on the planet." He's even got a whole page chock full of pretty pictures of some of the tumors he has removed:

http://parathyroid.com/parathyroid-pictures.htm

But here is the most interesting thing I learned...

Dr. James Norman of Parathyroid.com is a FACE- a Fellow of the American College of Endocrinology.

:D

[Rolfe]

Another thing was the use of abbreviations. Sometimes there is confusion between medics in different countries because of different use of abbreviations, but some of the shorthand/slang Tapman was using sounded a bit off to me.

Rolfe.

[Gwen]

I realise this thread is quite old, but I didn't want to start a new one. I've just found out today that this "teething help" has (voluntarily) been taken off the market because the FDA issued a warning after they
"found that Hyland’s Teething Tablets contain inconsistent amounts of belladonna"
and
"received reports of serious adverse events in children taking this product that are consistent with belladonna toxicity."
Source (http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm230761.htm)
There's also an FDA video (http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm231356.htm) about it.

Meanwhile Hyland's is confident that there's nothing wrong with their tablets:
25. Is there too much Belladonna in certain tablets?

Hyland's Teething Tablets are safe. If the Teething Tablet production process resulted in a variation of Belladonna, we are confident that children would still need to ingest significantly more than the dosing instructions on the label. We encourage you to continue to follow all label directions on over-the-counter medicines to ensure overdosing does not occur.

(from their recall FAQ (http://www.hylandsteething.com/recall/teething-tablet-recall-faq.html))
:(

[Emet]

There is a newer thread here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=189826).

The recall was discussed. ;)

[ria_rokz]

I already do this, it doesn't help.
Topical numbing agents only work for a few moments at best, anyway, and the amount of drooling a 5 month old is capable of doesn't exactly help.

nm

[ria_rokz]

HAhahaha still getting used to this... realized this is an ancient thread. Whoops!

[Mrs. Hmmphries]

HAhahaha still getting used to this... realized this is an ancient thread. Whoops!


That's all right, I'd forgotten that I'd started it, and hadn't actually gotten to read all the replies. So, thanks!