Zapata

[SteveGrenard]

I was recently pointed to the following Wikipedia entry and found some fascinating allegations. When searching this forum Zapata could not be found so I assume this has never been discussed before .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation

and whether the events surrounding the formation, operation and activities of Zapata continue to have any relevance for current world affairs given the role of GHWBush in this entity. And
no, it's not the name of a Cheech & Chong movie .....

[Homeland Insurgency]

I was recently pointed to the following Wikipedia entry and found some fascinating allegations. When searching this forum Zapata could not be found so I assume this has never been discussed before .....

and whether the events surrounding the formation, operation and activities of Zapata continue to have any relevance for current world affairs given the role of GHWBush in this entity.

What else is there to say? It's all there. Who doesn't recall where they were when they heard Kennedy was shot? Bush was in Dallas and so was Nixon right before and of course so was Johnson. Three people who never would have been president if Kennedy didn't die were all there when he was killed. It would have changed everything. And if Poppy hadn't become President we wouldn't have the current fortunate son. So yeah I would say it's relevant.

[~enigma~]

What else is there to say? It's all there. Who doesn't recall where they were when they heard Kennedy was shot? Bush was in Dallas and so was Nixon right before and of course so was Johnson. Three people who never would have been president if Kennedy didn't die were all there when he was killed. It would have changed everything. And if Poppy hadn't become President we wouldn't have the current fortunate son. So yeah I would say it's relevant.
So your saying Bush had a role in the JFK assassination?

[CFLarsen]

I was recently pointed to the following Wikipedia entry and found some fascinating allegations. When searching this forum Zapata could not be found so I assume this has never been discussed before .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation

and whether the events surrounding the formation, operation and activities of Zapata continue to have any relevance for current world affairs given the role of GHWBush in this entity. And
no, it's not the name of a Cheech & Chong movie .....

What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

[Homeland Insurgency]

So your saying Bush had a role in the JFK assassination?

Yes I believe he was right there in Dallas.

[~enigma~]

Yes I believe he was right there in Dallas.
So 45 years after the fact you claim Bush, Nixon and Johnson were in on the assassination and you think we are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SteveGrenard]

CFL asks: What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

Claus, you are being one dimensional. What you need here is a sense of history....


by David Malmo-Levine (20 Oct, 2004)
Four generations of war and drug war profiteers are at the heart of America's power structure.

PART ONE: THE DEATH MERCHANT AND THE NAZI BANKER

"If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched." – George H W Bush, cited in the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3579.html

See also this posting from Houston Craigslist:

http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/709642171.html

You can probably make a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy. JFK was initially tough on Communist Cuba but was considered soft when he backed out of supporting the Bay of Pigs invasion. Both he and Bobby's support for civil rights in the U.S. could have been too much for the Nazis to bear. JFK also equivocated on another anti-communist effort, the Viet Nam conflict which was left to his survivor, Johnson, to prosecute and his successor, Nixon, to end, in failure. So the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK..?

Zapata had a contract with Kuwait. They also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese. This must be giving GHW and GW apolexy. GW Bush the other day called for resumption of off shore drilling in the U.S. in response to the oil price crisis engineered by everything he has done so far. Resumption of off shore oil drilling could ressurect Zapata innovations in this field. They have since become Pennzoil, best known for supplying crankcase oil for automobiles. But daddy's brain child, Zapata, could rise again! Does that help answer your question?

[CptColumbo]

Yes I believe he was right there in Dallas.
If true, so what? Many people were in Dallas on 10/22/1963, IIRC it was and is a fairly large city. Are you saying they were all in on it?

[NoZed Avenger]

See also this posting from Houston Craigslist:


Or this one:

http://houston.craigslist.org/w4w/

I am a pretty, feminine sista living on the Westside of Houston ISO a few cool femme ladies to hang out with. I CRAVE & MISS that feminine energy that makes me grin from ear to ear!

Beats your by a mile, and just as authoritative.

[SteveGrenard]

Are you

saying

the interlocking directorates and financial alliances brought up in the references provided are either (choose one):

1. fabricated/fantasy
2. a coincidence
3. real but of no bearing on events, current or otherwise

Are you saying that the history of Prescott Bush and the Bush dynasty is false as presented? Are you saying extreme white wingers, excuse me, right wingers, such
as the John Birch Society are a fantasy?

And while the possible tie-ins with the JFK asssination are no doubt intriguing to some, are you saying more importantly what we are enduring now in the Iraqui quagmire and the runaway oil prices has no relationship with the current occupant of the White House given his history? That he has not lied and manipulated the Iraqui war in order to

a. attain revenge against Saddem for threatning to assasinate his father
b. create instability in the oil market to drive up prices
c. create opportunities for war profiteers such as Haliburton and KBR
d. divert resources from Afghanistan because of its importance in the heroin
trade

ookay. I guess we can keep referencing personal ads then.

[~enigma~]

Are you

saying

the interlocking directorates and financial alliances brought up in the references provided are either (choose one):

1. fabricated/fantasy
2. a coincidence
3. real but of no bearing on events, current or otherwiseDon't know who this was directed to since you didn't use the quote function but it is a combination of 1 and 3.

Are you saying that the history of Prescott Bush and the Bush dynasty is false as presented?Yes it is. Most if not all of the "conspiracy" surrounding the elder Bush is based of the book by proven idiot Webster Tarpley titled George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography.
Are you saying extreme white wingers, excuse me, right wingers, suchas the John Birch Society are a fantasy? Why are you bringing that into this discussion?
And while the possible tie-ins with the JFK asssination are no doubt intriguing to some, are you saying more importantly what we are enduring now in the Iraqui quagmire and the runaway oil prices has no relationship with the current occupant of the White House given his history? That he has not lied and manipulated the Iraqui war in order to

a. attain revenge against Saddem for threatning to assasinate his father
b. create instability in the oil market to drive up prices
c. create opportunities for war profiteers such as Haliburton and KBR
d. divert resources from Afghanistan because of its importance in the heroin
trade

ookay. I guess we can keep referencing personal ads then.Oh...you buy into the entire Webster Tarply/Michael Ruppert/DRG/Kevin Barrett/Dylan Avery/Alex Jones line of bs. Good to know who we are dealing with.

[CFLarsen]

Oh...you buy into the entire Webster Tarply/Michael Ruppert/DRG/Kevin Barrett/Dylan Avery/Alex Jones line of bs. Good to know who we are dealing with.

Why not? Once, it was mediumship that was in vogue. Then, it was Muslim hating. Why not conspiracies?

[Gazpacho]

Yes I believe he was right there in Dallas.
I don't know what the population of Dallas was that year but it was probably in excess of half a million. What was GHWB's role in the assassination?

[defaultdotxbe]

I don't know what the population of Dallas was that year but it was probably in excess of half a million. What was GHWB's role in the assassination?

679,684 in 1960
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922422.html

[CptColumbo]

Yes I believe he was right there in Dallas.

If true, so what? Many people were in Dallas on 10/22/1963, IIRC it was and is a fairly large city. Are you saying they were all in on it?

I don't know what the population of Dallas was that year but it was probably in excess of half a million. What was GHWB's role in the assassination?
According to the 1960 census, the population of the city was 679,684 (it is now 1.2 million).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Dallas%2C_Texas
http://www.census.gov/

ETA default is quicker than I. I blame my stubby fingers (its why I had to play the cello instead of violin).

[SteveGrenard]

Don't know who this was directed to since you didn't use the quote function but it is a combination of 1 and 3.

Thanks for your opinion. So it seems rather than choosing one you choose two which sorta contradict each other. The existence of the interlocking directorates mentioned in the quotes are a matter of record even if you think they either didn't exist or if they did were of no relevance.

Yes it is. Most if not all of the "conspiracy" surrounding the elder Bush is based of the book by proven idiot Webster Tarpley titled George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography.

Don't know it.


Why are you bringing that into this discussion?Oh...you buy into the entire Webster Tarply/Michael Ruppert/DRG/Kevin Barrett/Dylan Avery/Alex Jones line of bs. Good to know who we are dealing with.

Don't know any of these people or their opinions. Credulity is a two way street. You either place your full faith, trust and belief in Bush and Chaney and everything they have done or you place your belief or credulity in those who have crticicized them.

For people like yourself and others I suppose its a matter of ideology. They say their leaders can do no harm, have done no harm and stand by them no matter how badly they are hurt by them or how corrupt they are. We have seen this with Mayor Curly in Boston who ran the city from his jail cell with the help of such supporters. And we've seen it with Mayor Daly Sr in Chicago and I supppose elsewhere, I suppose wherever corrupt politicians have a following or are tolerated.

It's your constitutional right to get shafted if that's what you want.

[~enigma~]

Thanks for your opinion. So it seems rather than choosing one you choose two which sorta contradict each other. The existence of the interlocking directorates mentioned in the quotes are a matter of record even if you think they either didn't exist or if they did were of no relevance.



Don't know it.



Don't know any of these people or their opinions. Credulity is a two way street. You either place your full faith, trust and belief in Bush and Chaney and everything they have done or you place your belief or credulity in those who have crticicized them.

For people like yourself and others I suppose its a matter of ideology. They say their leaders can do no harm, have done no harm and stand by them no matter how badly they are hurt by them or how corrupt they are. We have seen this with Mayor Curly in Boston who ran the city from his jail cell with the help of such supporters. And we've seen it with Mayor Daly Sr in Chicago and I supppose elsewhere, I suppose whever corrupt politicians have a following. It's your constitutional right to get shafted if that's what you want.Huh...you just flew off the deep end..

[SteveGrenard]

You make the worst debating mistake of all by attacking the speaker rather than the argument.

Congratulations you have joined the CF Larsen Club!

[SDC]

Nuts. I thought, from the title, this was going to be a discussion of the Mexican revolution of the early part of the 20th century, or even of -- do I remember this right? -- Marlon Brando's rendition of a Mexican Indian revolutionary.

Instead it is some horse pucky blaming the Bush family for the world's ills.

I think Jeb, Neil, and W. were playing with their pop guns on 22d November and whoops, well, you know the rest.

[fuelair]

Nuts. I thought, from the title, this was going to be a discussion of the Mexican revolution of the early part of the 20th century, or even of -- do I remember this right? -- Marlon Brando's rendition of a Mexican Indian revolutionary.

.That's Mexican Indian slimeball murdering thug. But, yeah, that's what I also assumed.

[~enigma~]

You make the worst debating mistake of all by attacking the speaker rather than the argument.

Congratulations you have joined the CF Larsen Club!
And you make arguments attributing things I didn't say to me...you have graduated from the Alex Jones school of strawman building. Here they forgot to give you your diploma...

[SDC]

Maybe we can report this to the mods as a false flag thread. It masqueraded as a peon... no, that's wrong... As a thread about Marlon Brando's greatest movie role. And what do we get instead? Barbara Bush shot JFK. (Probably aiming for Jackie because of the latter's annoyingly overpowering fashion sense.)

Jeez louise...

[~enigma~]

Maybe we can report this to the mods as a false flag thread. It masqueraded as a peon... no, that's wrong... As a thread about Marlon Brando's greatest movie role. And what do we get instead? Barbara Bush shot JFK. (Probably aiming for Jackie because of the latter's annoyingly overpowering fashion sense.)

Jeez louise...
thought it was about a spanish woman's shoe :)

[photolina]

Nuts. I thought, from the title, this was going to be a discussion of the Mexican revolution of the early part of the 20th century, or even of -- do I remember this right? -- Marlon Brando's rendition of a Mexican Indian revolutionary.

Instead it is some horse pucky blaming the Bush family for the world's ills.

I think Jeb, Neil, and W. were playing with their pop guns on 22d November and whoops, well, you know the rest.

Finally a descent response, I’m Mexican born there but raised here in the U.S. I know more about U.S. History. I should know better that to listens to this. I’m not remembering my Mexican History which I have to freshen up. But I do agree with you in this history fact. I honestly though I would have been a more provoking discussion.:confused:

[CFLarsen]

CFL asks:

Claus, you are being one dimensional. What you need here is a sense of history....

I seriously doubt that I need you to teach me history.

by David Malmo-Levine (20 Oct, 2004)
Four generations of war and drug war profiteers are at the heart of America's power structure.

PART ONE: THE DEATH MERCHANT AND THE NAZI BANKER

"If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched." – George H W Bush, cited in the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/3579.html

"cannabisculture.com", Steve?

Can you produce this newsletter?

See also this posting from Houston Craigslist:

http://houston.craigslist.org/pol/709642171.html

Why should I pay attention to what some anonymous person rambles about?

You can probably make a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy.

Are you?

JFK was initially tough on Communist Cuba but was considered soft when he backed out of supporting the Bay of Pigs invasion. Both he and Bobby's support for civil rights in the U.S. could have been too much for the Nazis to bear.

Come again? What "Nazis"?

JFK also equivocated on another anti-communist effort, the Viet Nam conflict which was left to his survivor, Johnson, to prosecute and his successor, Nixon, to end, in failure. So the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK..?

Yes, Steve? Are you going to answer that question - or leave a trail of unfinished sentences and half-claims?

Zapata had a contract with Kuwait.

So?

They also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese.

So?

This must be giving GHW and GW apolexy. GW Bush the other day called for resumption of off shore drilling in the U.S. in response to the oil price crisis engineered by everything he has done so far. Resumption of off shore oil drilling could ressurect Zapata innovations in this field. They have since become Pennzoil, best known for supplying crankcase oil for automobiles. But daddy's brain child, Zapata, could rise again! Does that help answer your question?

Not really. You are talking about history (e.g., Zapata merged with South Penn Oil and other companies in 1963) - hardly "current affairs".

So, I ask again: What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

[Foolmewunz]

Steve, c'mon!

Go read fifty google results on any of the connections to Bush or Nixon or even Hoover being in Dallas that week. The worst sort of connect-the-dots journalism you can find. Is it that hard to think of reasons why Bush might be in Texas? Johnson? Even Nixon?

Oh, but wow, man... on the same day?

Amazon (should have) said:
People who like this book also ordered "More Crud by Daniel Hopsicker".

Have fun. Since no evidence is required, you can read up on this for weeks. And everything you find will be the same sort of argument from incredulity.

Oh, and personally? I think Joan Crawford did it.

[SDC]

Oh, and personally? I think Joan Crawford did it.

This is insane. Are you claiming that Jackie used wire coat hangers? Ever?

[Foolmewunz]

This is insane. Are you claiming that Jackie used wire coat hangers? Ever?


Actually on one of those sites I mentioned (okay, I didn't read fifty during this run, but I have over the last couple of years)... They mention the Pepsi loss of their Cuban sugar plantation and Joan's utter fury over that. And connecting the dots... well, obviously she talked to their corporate council, a certain R.M. Nixon about it and then he and his CIA buddies took care of that traitor, Kennedy.

And... and... then the CIA orchestrated Watergate to get rid of Nixon (to replace him with Agnew or Rockefeller or Ford??? well, it's their idea, not mine), and gave him a penthouse in New York to shut him up.

Or something like that. It's hard to make sense of them as they seem to be having a creative writing contest, and everyone has their primary dots connecting to all sorts of different dots. Sorta like the in-fighting in the 911 Truth Movement.


(And, as proof, well it's obvious! As you can see, the omnipotent NWO/CIA/Illuminati achieved their goal. We took over Cuba in '64 and repatriated all the wealth to the American companies who had been wronged.)

BTW, the above somewhat tongue-in-cheek paragraph reminds me....
To all conspiradroid who actually believe in these tenuous connections proving anything:
Why is it that they can cover up the assasination for 45 years, take down the WTC, fake a moon landing, snuff a princess, crash Ron Brown's plane, and all those other fantasist beliefs (which, it should be added, would run counter to the wishes of almost all Americans),....

And yet they couldn't muster the power to convince a few important individuals to broker a small water with Cuba - something that probably more than half the country would have supported at various times? Russia hasn't been a threat for over fifteen years. And those same NWO rulers are still in place running everything (according to Tarpley and Hopsicker and friends) and the evil Commies are still running Cuba? How's that? Did they change their minds?

[SteveGrenard]

Finally a descent response, I’m Mexican born there but raised here in the U.S. I know more about U.S. History. I should know better that to listens to this. I’m not remembering my Mexican History which I have to freshen up. But I do agree with you in this history fact. I honestly though I would have been a more provoking discussion.:confused:

Just to put this thread back on the rails and to set the record straight regarding the title Zapata, I provide the following quote from the URL originally provided in the OP which apparently a few people decided not to look at before voicing therir opinions on the title.






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation


Zapata Corporation is a holding company based in Rochester, New York and originating from an oil company started by a group including the former United States president George H. W. Bush. Various writers have found links between the company and the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

The company traces its origins to Zapata Oil, founded in 1953 by George H. W. Bush, along with his business partners John Overbey, Hugh Liedtke, Bill Liedtke, and Thomas J. Devine. Bush and Thomas J. Devine were oil-wildcatting associates.[citation needed] Their joint activities culminated in the establishment of Zapata Oil.[1] The initial $1 million investment for Zapata was provided by the Liedtke brothers and their circle of investors and by Bush's father and uncle—Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker Bush—and his family circle of friends.
Hugh Liedtke was named president, Bush was vice president; Overbey soon left. In 1954, Zapata Off-Shore Company was formed as a subsidiary, with Bush as president. He raised some startup money from Eugene Meyer, publisher of the Washington Post, and his son-in-law, Phillip Graham.[2][3]

Zapata Off-Shore accepted an offer from an inventor, R. G. LeTourneau, for the development of a mobile but secure drilling rig. Zapata advanced him $400,000. The sum was to be refundable if the completed rig did not function. If it did function, LeTourneau would get an additional $550,000 together with 38,000 shares of Zapata Off-Shore common stock. Zapata split in 1959 into Zapata Petroleum headed by the Liedtkes and Zapata Off-Shore, headed by Bush, funded with $800,000.[4] Bush moved his offices and family that year from Midland, Texas to Houston. Zapata Petroleum merged in 1963 with South Penn Oil and other companies to become Pennzoil.

According to a biographer of George H. W. Bush, Zapata Off-Shore in the late 1950s and early 1960s concentrated its business in the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, and the Central American coast.[5] The US government began to auction off mineral rights to these areas in 1954. Drilling contracts in 1958 with the seven large US oil producers included wells 40 miles north of Isabela, Cuba, near the island Cay Sal. Fidel Castro overthrew Cuba's Batista government in July 1959.

Zapata also won a contract with Kuwait. Bush was joined in Zapata by a fellow Yale Skull and Bones member, Robert Gow, in 1962. Zapata Off-Shore had four oil-drilling rigs operational by 1963: Scorpion (1956), Vinegaroon (1957), Sidewinder, and (in the Persian Gulf) Nola III.
By 1964, Zapata Off-Shore had a number of subsidiaries, including: Seacat-Zapata Offshore Company (Persian Gulf), Zapata de Mexico, Zapata International Corporation, Zapata Mining Corporation, Zavala Oil Company, Zapata Overseas Corporation, and a 41% share of Amata Gas Corporation.

[SDC]

No, I did follow the OP, I just thought this was about the silliest thing I'd seen in, say, the previous 15 minutes. I felt I was giving the OP the response it deserved.

Tell me more about this women's shoe thing... There is something about women's shoes....

[CptColumbo]

No, I did follow the OP, I just thought this was about the silliest thing I'd seen in, say, the previous 15 minutes. I felt I was giving the OP the response it deserved.

Tell me more about this women's shoe thing... There is something about women's shoes....We've reached the "shoe event horizon."

[SteveGrenard]

No, I did follow the OP, I just thought this was about the silliest thing I'd seen in, say, the previous 15 minutes. I felt I was giving the OP the response it deserved.

Tell me more about this women's shoe thing... There is something about women's shoes....

So you find the debate over offshore drilling silly? oookay.

http://www.alligator.org/articles/2008/07/01/opinion/editorials/080701_eddy.txt


It is nearly impossible to find a silver lining in $4–a–gallon gasoline. But if one is to be found, it is in the fact that skyrocketing prices at the pump and the resulting anger and discontent felt by Americans from sea to shining sea are forcing our politicians to finally have a much needed debate on what should be done to solve the nation’s dependency on foreign oil.

Regrettably, the contours of this debate have been shaped by unabashed duplicity and a complete disregard for reality. Instead of being honest with the American people about the need to develop alternative energy and to curb consumption of fossil fuels, the Bush administration, Sen. John McCain, Gov. Charlie Crist and a legion of right–wing radio talkers have propagated the myth made out of equal parts deception and delusion that we can simply drill our way out of dependence on foreign despots for our energy needs.


And for a fairly comprehensive wrap-up of the off shore drilling “debate” up to today see the following article from the Associated Press:


Companies begin quest for oil, gas off Florida
By MELISSA NELSON – 5 hours ago
PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) — Oil companies once viewed drilling in the deep waters off Florida as cost prohibitive. Politicians feared even the slightest sign of support would be career suicide.

No more. Record crude oil prices are fueling support for oil and natural gas exploration off the nation's shores. In Florida, movement was underway even before President Bush called on Congress last month to lift a federal moratorium that's barred new offshore drilling since 1981.

The early activity here stems from a 2006 Congressional compromise that allows drilling on 8.3 million acres more than 125 miles off the Panhandle — an area that had been covered by the moratorium, which was enacted out of environmental concerns. In exchange, the state got a no-drilling buffer along the rest of its beaches.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iAmaMKv9dF1vMEghI_Y9HKQruRnAD91NIT680


And so to the person who asks how GHW Bush influences current affairs, I will once again point to the regime change in Iraq which required its invasion and the the expenditure of nearly a trillion dollars, thousands and thousands of lives, theirs and ours, in order to avenge the death threats made upon GHW Bush by the late and non-lamented Saddem Hussein.

It is also indisputable that current oil prices have created a huge opportunity for GHW Bush’s company, Zapata and its various subsidiaries, as a provider of equipment and support services for U.S. off shore drilling which has become not only financially attractive but necessary, another important influence of GHW Bush on current affairs.

[SteveGrenard]

But what really jarred me in the wikipedia article was the allegation that Zapata also may've acted as a CIA front in time for the Cuban adventures including the JFK-messed up Bay of Pigs invasion. GHW Bush, of course, later became one of a long line of CIA Directors. So another question of the CTers is whether he was in office at the CIA long enough to get all the Zapata related documents destroyed?

[CFLarsen]

Let's get this back on track.

Steve,


Can you produce the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter?

Why should I pay attention to what some anonymous person rambles about?

Are you making a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy?

What "Nazis" are you talking about that found JFK's and Robert Kennedy's support for civil rights in the U.S. "too much to bear"?

Do you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK?

What if Zapata had a contract with Kuwait?

What if Zapata also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese?

What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

[SteveGrenard]

Here are my replies to your list:


Let's get this back on track.




Can you produce the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter?

A: This was a quote by someone else and registered as thus. I do not have this newsletter.

Why should I pay attention to what some anonymous person rambles about?

A:Only if it makes any sense to you. Otherwise feel free not to.


Are you making a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy?

A: No. I said others seem to be implying this.

What "Nazis" are you talking about that found JFK's and Robert Kennedy's support for civil rights in the U.S. "too much to bear"?

A: You are obviously not familiar with the American Nazi Party and the various neo-Nazi groups in the U.S. that were functioning in this period of our history. They turned out at civil rights demonstrations (supported by JFK/RFK) to heckle and start riots.

Do you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK?

A: The fact that he was considered soft on communist Cuba (see Bay of Pigs fiasco) and strong on civil rights, two natural enemies of Nazi ideology is used by some to make this case.

What if Zapata had a contract with Kuwait?

A: It is mentioned in the wiki article.

What if Zapata also drilled off shore Cuba which is now being drilled by the Chinese?

A: The waters off Cuba being drilled by the Chinese undoubtedly contain the same oil reserves claimed by the U.S. as being off our shore. Remember Cuba and Key West are extremely close to each other. It is ironic that the U.S. couldn't drill these waters but the Chinese could.


What role does GHWBush play in current world affairs?

A: See posts above. He is our current President's father. He is not senile. Anything that benefits him benefits his family and that includes GW Bush. Let's not be so naive as to believe the current occupant of the White House ignores his father's best interests.

[SteveGrenard]

foolme: And yet they couldn't muster the power to convince a few important individuals to broker a small water (war?) with Cuba - something that probably more than half the country would have supported at various times?

I think the problem with this is that there are many Cuban-Americans who have loved ones in Cuba who were and still are being held hostage by the regime there. If the U.S. attacked Cuba you can be sure Fidel and Raul would make sure they were placed in harm's way.

[CFLarsen]

# A: This was a quote by someone else and registered as thus. I do not have this newsletter.

Then, you are quoting something that you can't verify - and don't care if you can.

A:Only if it makes any sense to you. Otherwise feel free not to.

Steve, it doesn't matter if it makes sense to people. Astrology makes sense to some people. Fath healing makes sense to some people. Mediumship makes sense to some people - you included.

A: No. I said others seem to be implying this.

No, you didn't. You opened the possibility that it was Nazi influence that both JFK and RFK. Now, you back down from that.

A: You are obviously not familiar with the American Nazi Party and the various neo-Nazi groups in the U.S. that were functioning in this period of our history. They turned out at civil rights demonstrations (supported by JFK/RFK) to heckle and start riots.

Once again, you try to twist things. I asked you which "Nazis" you meant. I didn't say I wasn't familiar with the ones you now mention.

There were many groups who found JFK/RFK's support for civil rights "too much to bear". Why specifically mention the American Nazi Party and the neo-Nazi groups? Why do you want these groups to be connected to the Bush family? Or, is it the other way around? You want the Bushes to be connected to Nazis?

A: The fact that he was considered soft on communist Cuba (see Bay of Pigs fiasco) and strong on civil rights, two natural enemies of Nazi ideology is used by some to make this case.

That doesn't answer the question. I asked if you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK. Do you?

A: It is mentioned in the wiki article.

So what? Lots of companies had a contract with Kuwait.

A: The waters off Cuba being drilled by the Chinese undoubtedly contain the same oil reserves claimed by the U.S. as being off our shore.

Do you know, or are you merely guessing?

Remember Cuba and Key West are extremely close to each other. It is ironic that the U.S. couldn't drill these waters but the Chinese could.

Why?

A: See posts above. He is our current President's father. He is not senile. Anything that benefits him benefits his family and that includes GW Bush. Let's not be so naive as to believe the current occupant of the White House ignores his father's best interests.

Very tenuous line of reasoning, Steve. Your argument is weak, and is based on speculation, non-existing evidence and pure conspiracy thinking.

[Dumb All Over]

When I was born, my parents purchased 1 share of Zapata Oil to commemorate the birth. I still have that certificate somewhere, 47 years later. Hmmm, I wonder how much it might be worth, if anything.

[defaultdotxbe]

When I was born, my parents purchased 1 share of Zapata Oil to commemorate the birth. I still have that certificate somewhere, 47 years later. Hmmm, I wonder how much it might be worth, if anything.
probably not much, according to wikipedia they did 1-for-10 reverse split in 2001, which means your one stock would just take a cash payment, which wouldnt be much, otherwise they wouldnt be reverse splitting, lol

and thats assuming something in the first 40 years didnt somehow null the share

[Dumb All Over]

probably not much, according to wikipedia they did 1-for-10 reverse split in 2001, which means your one stock would just take a cash payment, which wouldnt be much, otherwise they wouldnt be reverse splitting, lol

and thats assuming something in the first 40 years didnt somehow null the share
So, it's probably not worth the paper it's printed on. Great.

So much for being a loyal NWO operative for all these years. For anyone wanting to join the movement, the payoff is lousy!

[Viper Daimao]

The Chinese are not drilling off the coast of Cuba (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/5875992.html).

Kinda makes you wonder how much the rest of your supposed facts are also untrue and urban legends?

[SteveGrenard]

The Chinese are not drilling off the coast of Cuba (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/5875992.html).

Kinda makes you wonder how much the rest of your supposed facts are also untrue and urban legends?

You may be right and then again your sources may also be wrong. Short of giving a call to Raul to confirm, what you forgot to mention is that the reports of China being given Cuban drilling rights is that they came from the Republican side in an effort to make their case for off shore drilling and counter environmentalists and dems. I too saw all the pro/con reports and frankly don’t know what to believe but this 2006 piece quotes a number of parties. In 2006 the price of oil was not an issue...:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/05/08/Worldandnation/Cuba_seeks_oil_near_K.shtml

(Map below from above URL)

And there’s this blog:

http://chasblogspot.blogspot.com/2008/06/mccain-offshore-drilling-china-and-cuba.html

My favorite is the environmentalists blaming Cheney for making a mistake and claiming
China is or is about to drill off-shore in Cuba.

In short, it depends on who you want to believe. But you’re right, compared to Cheney
little ole me has no idea who is lying and who isn’t, your snide remark and obvious omission that there is a propaganda war going on here notwithstanding. Bottom line my friend is that if the republicans get off shore drilling okayed in US coastal waters it would be a boon for George Herbert Walker Bush, yeah, that's right, the guy who is the President's father and a former President himself, now a sky diver. Viva Zapata! Zapata shall rise again. GWBush wants it. McCain wants it. Cheney wants it. Other members of the GOP want it. So if they fabricated or made up the story about China drilling off Cuba, it is another reason to doubt anything they say and not vote for McCain. I assume that's what you are driving at and if so I agree.


YouTube - Dick Cheney Lies to the World, Fox News Backs Him Up
Jun 13, 2008 ... Dick Cheney Lies to the World about China drilling for oil offshore of Cuba, Fox News Backs Him Up. Fox News yet again shows itself to be ...www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnNih6EWoo

[SteveGrenard]

More evidence it is the GOP that started this. Thanks VIPER for giving us the opportunity to see what a bunch of liars and manipulators the GOP has turned into....

The far-right China-Cuba myth that just won’t die
Posted July 3rd, 2008 at 1:42 pm


About a month ago, as the debate over coastal drilling began in earnest, Dick Cheney pushed the rhetorical envelope a bit, telling the U.S. Chamber of Commerce that “oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida. We’re not doing it. The Chinese are in cooperation with the Cuban government…. Even the communists have figured out that a good answer to high prices is more supply. Yet Congress has said … no to drilling off Florida.”

It’s been a common Republican talking point, but it’s patently false — the Chinese are not drilling off Cuba’s coasts. The day after Cheney made the bogus claim, the VP’s office acknowledged that he was mistaken.

And yet, for some reason, high-profile Republicans can’t stop repeating the claim that’s already been debunked. Maybe conservatives have decided that they can’t win a debate on energy policy on the merits, so lying to people about communists stealing our oil is the better strategy. Here’s failed presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani talking to CNN’s resident right-wing clown, Glenn Beck, last night:

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16084.html


Ray St. Louis column: A lie -- Chinese will be drilling off Florida coast

It all started with conservative commentator George Will’s pronouncement, in a June 5 Washington Post column, that China, in cahoots with Cuba, was drilling for oil just 60 miles off the Florida shore.

Panic ensued. Prognosticators prognosticated. Bloviators bloviated. Fearmongers fearmonged.

The world-class polluting Chinese, they shouted, are allowed to drill closer to our shores than even our own oil companies! How dare they out-exploit us in our own back yard?

Dick Cheney was the first to jump on the China-Cuba oil connection bandwagon. In a speech before the U.S. Chamber of Commerce on June 11, he said:

"Oil is being drilled right now 60 miles off the coast of Florida. But we're not doing it. The Chinese are, in cooperation with the Cuban government. Even the communists have figured out that a good answer to high prices is more supply."

http://www.highspringsherald.com/articles/2008/07/04/news/news19.txt


Minnesota Independent's Paul Schmelzer writes that Norm Coleman is trafficking in a debunked claim about Chinese drilling off the Cuban coast. Factcheck.org says China negotiated an offshore Cuban lease, but may only explore, not drill. No Chinese companies are involved. Coleman's quote is hedgier than Dick Cheney's original drilling falsehood but still wrong: "The Chinese are able to begin operating 90 miles off shore by working with the Cubans." Hey, major media — gonna cover this?

http://www.minnpost.com/dailyglean/2008/07/08/2486/daily_glean_win_a_date_with_obama_illegal_in_minne sota

The biggest laugh Viper, however, is that you blamed me for perpetrating this myth.....you gotta do more research.

[Viper Daimao]

I blamed you for perpetrating it? I most certainly did not.

Additionally I'll remind you that the GOP also debunked the claim
U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez, a Florida Republican, recently refuted Cheney and other drilling proponents.

[SteveGrenard]

I blamed you for perpetrating it? I most certainly did not.

Additionally I'll remind you that the GOP also debunked the claim

The GOP? That's a rather sweeping statement. Senator Martinez is but one of a small number of Republicans who, guess what?, are opposed to off shore drilling; in Martinez' case off shore Florida which would include the areas shown on the above map.

I lost count of the number of Republicans who repeated the claim and have used it publicly to argue for off shore drilling. The China-Cuba claim was clearly made by the GOP, and you provide one person who debunks it who is a member of the GOP? Off the top of my head besides VP Cheney there's Nelson, Kirk, McCain, Giuliani, .... the GOP and its supporters (e.g. Fox News) got caught spreading a lie. Nothing new there. They've been at it since September 12, 2001.

No, you didn't blame me for "perpetrating" it, just telling a lie and spouting an urban legend
which was Martinez' term by the way. You just forgot to tell readers why... because big names in the GOP started it. You forgot to consider the fact that Zapata has a lot to gain if this lie were believed and off shore drilling was passed in the U.S. You forgot the gray area we are still not sure of which is an agreement with China MAY exist on exploration. I am sure if this is true, and who the heck knows, the Chinese won't be doing it for the fun of it. I think we'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime Senator Martinez can go to Key West, take a chopper ride, and not see any oil rigs. That will make him very happy.

[CFLarsen]

Steve,

Please address post #37.

[SteveGrenard]

I assume you mean the part about the Nazi connection? Let me emphasize I do not subscribe to any theory including this one but bring it to your attention because your pleas for additional information seems to indicate you are not aware of this CT aspect of the JFK assasination.

http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Nazi%20Connection%20to%20JFK%20Assass.html


You might also want to check out or Google The Torbit or Torbitt (spelling?) Document.

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=9YZxWU_VgnMC&dq=torbit+document&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=oubquWFQtz&sig=U_rVv63OpOBNzDS9gNDPaOmymUw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPP1,M1

[Viper Daimao]

The GOP? That's a rather sweeping statement. Senator Martinez is but one of a small number of Republicans who, guess what?, are opposed to off shore drilling; in Martinez' case off shore Florida which would include the areas shown on the above map.

I lost count of the number of Republicans who repeated the claim and have used it publicly to argue for off shore drilling. The China-Cuba claim was clearly made by the GOP, and you provide one person who debunks it who is a member of the GOP? Off the top of my head besides VP Cheney there's Nelson, Kirk, McCain, Giuliani, .... the GOP and its supporters (e.g. Fox News) got caught spreading a lie. Nothing new there. They've been at it since September 12, 2001.

No, you didn't blame me for "perpetrating" it, just telling a lie and spouting an urban legend
which was Martinez' term by the way. You just forgot to tell readers why... because big names in the GOP started it. You forgot to consider the fact that Zapata has a lot to gain if this lie were believed and off shore drilling was passed in the U.S. You forgot the gray area we are still not sure of which is an agreement with China MAY exist on exploration. I am sure if this is true, and who the heck knows, the Chinese won't be doing it for the fun of it. I think we'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime Senator Martinez can go to Key West, take a chopper ride, and not see any oil rigs. That will make him very happy.

I thank you for your retraction of your slander against me.

I also do not believe anything else you say here as you provide no evidence, simply more wild claims, and you have been shown to be wrong in the past with your claims.

[CFLarsen]

I assume

The whole of post #37.

[SteveGrenard]

Then, you are quoting something that you can't verify - and don't care if you can.

You seriously expect posters here to go out and verify the quotes or publications of others? If so, 90% of the back-up quotes on this forum need to have this applied. Quotes speak for themselves. You can either agree ir disagree.



Steve, it doesn't matter if it makes sense to people. Astrology makes sense to some people. Fath healing makes sense to some people. Mediumship makes sense to some people - you included.

It makes absolute sense that something either makes sense or doesn't make sense to a reader or listener or observer. What kind of nonsense are you spouting now?



No, you didn't. You opened the possibility that it was Nazi influence that both JFK and RFK. Now, you back down from that.

This was responded to above.


Once again, you try to twist things. I asked you which "Nazis" you meant. I didn't say I wasn't familiar with the ones you now mention.

See the reference I provided previously.



There were many groups who found JFK/RFK's support for civil rights "too much to bear". Why specifically mention the American Nazi Party and the neo-Nazi groups? Why do you want these groups to be connected to the Bush family? Or, is it the other way around? You want the Bushes to be connected to Nazis?


See reference provided previously. It would seem from your remark that you are defending the Nazis as one among many who had a gripe with JFK and that it was justifiable. Are you saying those with a grudge against JFK had legitimate complaints including the Nazis?



That doesn't answer the question. I asked if you think the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK. Do you?

I don't personally have reason think so but if you read my assertion I said there were some who could make such a case. You choose to ignore my original statement. I then provided you with the evidence of those who would make such a case. This is the conspiracies subforum.

The issue of the JFK or RFK assasinations are a derail and are way off topic for the argument brought up in the OP.

[CFLarsen]

You seriously expect posters here to go out the verify the quotes or publications of others? If so, 90% of the back-up quotes on this forum need to have this applied. Quotes speak for themselves. You can either agree ir disagree.

Steve, it isn't a question of agreeing or disagreeing with what the person being quoted was saying.

It's a question of whether or not the person actually said it.

You can not provide evidence that he did. That you refuse to recognize this is evidence that you have no problems spreading lies that you know are lies.

This was responded to above.

It doesn't change the fact: You opened the possibility that it was Nazi influence that both JFK and RFK. Now, you back down from that.

See reference provided previously.

The only reference to Bush in that load of conspiracy crap is this:

1974-1977: Under George Bush, director of CIA, Streikher sent to Africa and Middle East.

If that links George Bush to the Nazis, then you are even deeper connected to them. Here's the evidence. (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=grenard+nazi&btnG=Search)

I don't personally have reason think so

Then, all you want to do is spread lies and misinformation.

The issue of the JFK or RFKL assasinations are a derail and are way off topic for the argument brought up in the OP.

Then, don't talk about it yourself:

You can probably make a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy. JFK was initially tough on Communist Cuba but was considered soft when he backed out of supporting the Bay of Pigs invasion. Both he and Bobby's support for civil rights in the U.S. could have been too much for the Nazis to bear. JFK also equivocated on another anti-communist effort, the Viet Nam conflict which was left to his survivor, Johnson, to prosecute and his successor, Nixon, to end, in failure. So the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK..?

[SteveGrenard]

Steve, it isn't a question of agreeing or disagreeing with what the person being quoted was saying.

It's a question of whether or not the person actually said it.

I provided you with the sources available on the subject. No more, no less. It is most certainly up to the reader to decide on the credibility of any source.


You can not provide evidence that he did. That you refuse to recognize this is evidence that you have no problems spreading lies that you know are lies.

I did not render any judgement as to whether a quoted source was a lie or not. That is up to you. Some of what was postulated may be a lie, some may not. I have no way of knowing and neither do you.



It doesn't change the fact: You opened the possibility that it was Nazi influence that both JFK and RFK. Now, you back down from that.

Indeed. What I said, again, is that some have made this case. I did not say it was true, I did not say I bought it myself.

[SteveGrenard]

1974-1977: Under George Bush, director of CIA, Streikher sent to Africa and Middle East.
If that links George Bush to the Nazis, then you are even deeper connected to them. Here's the evidence.

This deserves a separate reply. Mainly because it is the biggest crock of libel you have ever
came up with. There are hundreds, no, thousands of Grenard's in the world and the Grenard referred to here is no member of my family or me. I was born in the U.S., my parents were born in the U.S. My grandparents came from Europe in the 1880s. My father was an officer in the U.S. Army during WW II and fought the Nazis. His brother, my uncle, landed at Normandy and fought the Nazis in France. You, Mr. Larsen, have now managed to make a accusation that goes far beyond anything you have done before. Perhaps one can provide a list of all the Larsen-named Nazi collaborators living in Denmark during WW II? Wouldn't that be fun? I betcha there were even a few Claus Larsens as well.

If you read the reference provided you would see that the Bush family is linked to the Nazis in other ways, through Prescott Bush and his position at a well known investment bank that did business with the Third Reich and accepted funds from them to invest. Again, this is not me owning this information, it is others who have made the case for it.


Then, all you want to do is spread lies and misinformation.


It is not a lie that some have made a case against Nazi elements in the U.S. as
influencing the decision to assasinate JFK. I have provided proof of that implication.

You have not responded to my question regarding your sympathies to the Nazi cause yet?


Then, don't talk about it yourself:


I am sure you would like that. You obviously don't want to see the Nazis held responsible, even if only an implication or in conversation, for anything like the assasination of JFK.
In the meantime please don't tell me what not to talk about. I will not censor you either.

[CFLarsen]

I provided you with the sources available on the subject. No more, no less. It is most certainly up to the reader to decide on the credibility of any source.

There are no "sources", Steve. You are using a quote you cannot verify. That means you are knowingly using misinformation.

I did not render any judgement as to whether a quoted source was a lie or not. That is up to you. Some of what was postulated may be a lie, some may not. I have no way of knowing and neither do you.

But we do know that you lie, Steve. You have done it before, and you are doing it, right here in this thread. And you know you are lying.

Indeed. What I said, again, is that some have made this case. I did not say it was true, I did not say I bought it myself.

But you opened up for the possibility, only to back down when you were challenged.

[SteveGrenard]

There are no "sources", Steve. You are using a quote you cannot verify. That means you are knowingly using misinformation.

I am not using a quote I cannot verify. I am using the following document which was posted here earlier as well:

http://www.prouty.org/brussell/nazi-1.html

You're the one that's lying.



But we do know that you lie, Steve. You have done it before, and you are doing it, right here in this thread. And you know you are lying.

How am I lying about the existence of the above CT regarding the Nazis and the JFK assasination. It's right there above for you to read if you would even bother letting the facts get in the way of your lies. If anybody is lying, it's you.



But you opened up for the possibility, only to back down when you were challenged.

I did no such thing. I provided you once, and now here again, with the Mae Brussell review of the Nazi Connection to the JFK Assasination. If you think the late Mae Brussell is a figment of my imagination Google her.

Why are you hallucinating what your mind wants you to think? This is very scary Claus.

[CFLarsen]

I am not using a quote I cannot verify.

That is a bald-faced lie.

You posted this quote in post #7:

"If the people were to ever find out what we have done, we would be chased down the streets and lynched." – George H W Bush, cited in the June 1992 Sarah McClendon Newsletter.

When asked to produce this newsletter, you replied:

This was a quote by someone else and registered as thus. I do not have this newsletter.

When you claim you can "verify" this quote, you are lying.

How am I lying about the existence of the above CT regarding the Nazis and the JFK assasination. It's right there above for you to read if you would even bother letting the facts get in the way of your lies. If anybody is lying, it's you.

I am not saying you lie about the existence of a conspiracy theory. I am saying that you lie about other things.

I did no such thing.

That is a bald-faced lie:

You can probably make a case that it was Nazi influence that killed both John and Robert Kennedy. JFK was initially tough on Communist Cuba but was considered soft when he backed out of supporting the Bay of Pigs invasion. Both he and Bobby's support for civil rights in the U.S. could have been too much for the Nazis to bear. JFK also equivocated on another anti-communist effort, the Viet Nam conflict which was left to his survivor, Johnson, to prosecute and his successor, Nixon, to end, in failure. So the Nazis or Nazi influence and power conspired to kill JFK..?

I provided you once, and now here again, with the Mae Brussell review of the Nazi Connection to the JFK Assasination. If you think the late Mae Brussell is a figment of my imagination Google her.

Why are you hallucinating what your mind wants you to think? This is very scary Claus.

The evidence is clear. You have lied repeatedly in this thread. You have spread misinformation in this thread.

[SteveGrenard]

We're all done here. I cannot respond to someone who lazily asks imprecise questions without subjects or objects. Anyway:


F L Y B Y N E W SSep 19, 2005 ... You can Google "Sarah McClendon June 1992 newsletter" and click away until you're "google-eyed" if you like, or you can take my word for it. ...
www.flybynews.com/cgi-local/newspro/viewnews.cgi?newsid1127141457,15227, - 22k


in o/w google Sarah McClendon yourself.

[CFLarsen]

No evidence, then.

We're done alright.