Energy, Heat, Healing, Magnetic

[AstralWar]

I am making this thread so that Those that have the knowledge within the science laws and Know of what Has to be used to measure the amount of what ever it is that i can give using my hands and body and water and a person.

What i mean is i can heal Like a Reki healer may do or a Quantum touch. Not long ago i described what i have done to someone who does Quantum touch for money and she said that what i did was Quantum Touch to fullest highest degree. I have not read any books on any of this or anything that i can do the only thing i did read was from a book called AWAKING HEALING ENERGY OF THE TAO now i did not read the whole book only a brief peice of it. What i did read i applied and what was said did not suggest anything to do but only referred to of a Energy that some are able to obtain can not use in healing because it can be to hot and not do any good. I read that and then i figured a way to apply this hot Energy.

I use water I like to use a washcloth also I mainly focus on the hands and feet using the charts of reflexology as a way to have energy given taken and sent from one to the other which travels through the energy lines within the body I can perform how i look at it as like what the millitary do when using missles such as making a destinaion point then firing it in a differant location to reach the desination point doing this my energy flows through the whole body.


If anyone is interested in helping me do a double blind test and ways to go about this. I look forward to doing all i can making sure this challenge gets put to an end by cutting that check.



I have no idea what type of energy this could be. I think that it may change differant types in regards to what i use and how and what i am healing with the healings i have done it seems that the energy adapts to what is needed.

[Giggywig]

Can you sense when you are close to another person, without touching them?

[AstralWar]

Can you sense when you are close to another person, without touching them?


I had someone i know put their hand in a pitcher of water up to her wrist and a bit past it and not only did i feel her but she felt what she described and voltage surging her and i did not touch her or the water my hand or hands go in a circular motion around her i was able to keep this up for a few mins on more than one occasion and more than one person

It was so long that as i felt what was going on i made sure i asked what was felt by her and for her to describe to me what was felt as i was feeling it also

[chillzero]

AW, If you don't want this thread moved around as well, please ensure it is strictly on topic to the Million Dollar Challenge. Do you intend to apply? If so, then you can discuss testing and protocols here. If not I will move this to Paranormal and merge it with the other thread.

[GoodGuysEatPie]

I found this post VERY hard to follow.

What specifically do you claim to heal? Please don't use words like Reiki or reflexology or missiles or whatever. Just say it in a few complete sentences similar to (but even more specific than) this: "I believe that I can heal a person's skin cancer by standing near them and waving my hands around and concentrating on them. My powers only work on skin cancer and I get rid of the cancer 90% of the time." Be as specific as possible. Since you posted in the Million Dollar Challenge, you need to be specific. If you want to be tested, your claim has to be testable.

AstralWar, can I ask where you are from?

~ggep~

[Giggywig]

Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Rosa) and this (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=oJo&q=Emily+Rosa+experiment&btnG=Search). Would that be a suitable test of your abilities?

[AstralWar]

Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Rosa) and this (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=oJo&q=Emily+Rosa+experiment&btnG=Search). Would that be a suitable test of your abilities?


No, That is not what i can do. I do not deal with auras i deal with energy.

There is a thread by someone that had lots of knowledge of what i can do that person named instruments that can used to test the flow of energy between me and the other person I not only want the person to feel or for me to feel but i also want it measured I know I can break what ever it was that he was talking about and not only that but also apply to heal

Maybe you can read his thread it is in the application part of the challenges under magnetic hands by Julian Lee Goldberg. I want to add water and a wash cloth when i do this

[AstralWar]

I am from California.

[AstralWar]

AW, If you don't want this thread moved around as well, please ensure it is strictly on topic to the Million Dollar Challenge. Do you intend to apply? If so, then you can discuss testing and protocols here. If not I will move this to Paranormal and merge it with the other thread.

Thank you for moving it back. I tried to stay on topic as much as i could while try to deal with all those trolls with their remarks and unimportant ?s Yes I intend to apply. May I ask why you would merge it with the other thread when i never started that thread myself? No big deal nevermind;p)
Will you try and help me with those that are not trying to help me but are trying to have me change my ability by asking me ?s that are not important

[GoodGuysEatPie]

AstralWar, you have to be much more specific when you talk about "energy". You have to understand that the word 'energy' have a definite meaning in physics and what are you describing doesn't seem to be the same thing.

A nice little primer on a skeptic's viewpoint on 'energy' is here (http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4002) (link to Skeptoid).

After reading that, can you describe your healing power in more specific terms?

~ggep~

[chillzero]

<snip off topic>

Yes I intend to apply.

<snip off topic>

Will you try and help me with those that are not trying to help me but are trying to have me change my ability by asking me ?s that are not important

Nobody here is trying to change your ability. They are trying to help you define it, so that you can then decide how best to test it in order to take the challenge.

[AstralWar]

I want to be tested on all levels possible with what Skeptic stated during the end of that link. I doubt that anyone has ever been tested. It has only been talked about. Just like he said to have energy and perform miracles all over.

[GoodGuysEatPie]

I want to be tested on all levels possible with what Skeptic stated during the end of that link. I doubt that anyone has ever been tested. It has only been talked about. Just like he said to have energy and perform miracles all over.

OK, since we can't get you to specifically state your power or what you claim to be able to do, let's ask it a different way. If you were to go about testing yourself, how would you do it? If you can answer this in a coherent, detailed fashion, then we can perhaps help you to understand how a MDC test might work.

~ggep~

[AstralWar]

How would you want to test it? The Energy changes from the time i start till I am Done. I want Tests done that are all Possible Measuring The Energy and differant fields as I work what ever Task that is in Front of Me. Is there name for being able to Direct Energy To where I want It to go. To guide it on a Specific Path;p)

[AstralWar]

I am sure The Heat From My hands or Hand when comes near The Testee That a Reaction or Proccess occurs with the water and air causing a Eltromagnetic Field of some sort. How High is it NOT SURE YET CAN'T WAIT TO FIND OUT;P)

[AstralWar]

The Magnetic Field Might even make Gravity Increase. Cause it does pull me more and more

[Madalch]

How would you want to test it? The Energy changes from the time i start till I am Done. I want Tests done that are all Possible Measuring The Energy and differant fields as I work what ever Task that is in Front of Me. Is there name for being able to Direct Energy To where I want It to go. To guide it on a Specific Path;p)

How should -we- know how to test it? You haven't told us what it is, other than "energy" and "energy fields"- and we don't know what you think those terms mean. Should we just pull out our tricorders and measure your energy levels with them?

What kind of field? Electric? Magnetic? Psychic? We could measure the first two, but not the third.

[GoodGuysEatPie]

How would you want to test it? The Energy changes from the time i start till I am Done. I want Tests done that are all Possible Measuring The Energy and differant fields as I work what ever Task that is in Front of Me. Is there name for being able to Direct Energy To where I want It to go. To guide it on a Specific Path;p)

OK, please provide an example of a task that you can perform. In your description, do not refer to "energy" of any kind. Just state the task that you think you can perform.

~ggep~

[AstralWar]

I know it will be able to be seen with some sort to Work device. Cause I start within Inchs However I do not stay that Close I can't Last Time I ended up At about atleast a Foot To 2feet With Energy Filling up that whole 2 feet

[AstralWar]

When i Refer to energy I am Regarding All Energy

[GoodGuysEatPie]

This thread now resembles those gibberish spam emails.

Sorry, man, can't help you.

~ggep~

[AstralWar]

It is not the same each time. Differant Tasks Take Differant Steps. One thing is for sure is that I will Heat My body and everything around me My hands will get hot. I will use water Some sort of Washcloth. And a Container that will have water in it and my testee to Apply a Body Part to the Container. While using the air water My hot hands my Testee's body part withn that water I will Heat the air and if need to be I May Use Perpetual Motion in the water with my hand To Quickly Create the ElectroMagnetic Field And then Hold The Energy There Between My hand And The Container of Water With My Testee's Body In it Until I Stop

[William Smith]

AstralWar, your posts are neither coherent nor do you seem to have understood the rules of the JREF Challenge. (http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-application.html)

Please describe clearly what you intend to do to make "sure this challenge gets put to an end".

[GoodGuysEatPie]

This thread now resembles those gibberish spam emails.
~ggep~

It is not the same each time. Differant Tasks Take Differant Steps. One thing is for sure is that I will Heat My body and everything around me My hands will get hot. I will use water Some sort of Washcloth. And a Container that will have water in it and my testee to Apply a Body Part to the Container. While using the air water My hot hands my Testee's body part withn that water I will Heat the air and if need to be I May Use Perpetual Motion in the water with my hand To Quickly Create the ElectroMagnetic Field And then Hold The Energy There Between My hand And The Container of Water With My Testee's Body In it Until I Stop

QED.

[Coveredinbeeees]

I had someone i know put their hand in a pitcher of water up to her wrist and a bit past it and not only did i feel her but she felt what she described and voltage surging her and i did not touch her or the water my hand or hands go in a circular motion around her i was able to keep this up for a few mins on more than one occasion and more than one person

It was so long that as i felt what was going on i made sure i asked what was felt by her and for her to describe to me what was felt as i was feeling it also

If someone was in the same room as you but separated by an opaque screen and that person was to place either their left or right hand into a bucket of water would you, without being able to see them, be able to tell which hand they had submerged? In the text I quote above you say that you could "feel" your friend when she put her hand in water. This could be tested quite easily.

[TheBoyPaj]

When you read stuff like this, you begin to understand why Randi is ending the challenge.

[666]

What i mean is i can heal Like a Reki healer may do or a Quantum touch. Not long ago i described what i have done to someone who does Quantum touch for money and she said that what i did was Quantum Touch to fullest highest degree. (My bold)

Three Quanta in one paragraph. That's enough to convince me.

[AstralWar]

Can I choose who i want to be my Patient

[Akhenaten]

It is not the same each time. Differant Tasks Take Differant Steps.


If this is the case then you need to decide on a specific task and then outline the steps required to accomplish that task. This would form the basis, at least, of a protocol with which to approach the MDC.



One thing is for sure is that I will Heat My body and everything around me My hands will get hot.


OK, this is a start. Heat is something that can be measured with current technology, I believe. How hot are we talking here? Can you boil a cup of water by holding it in your hands? Forget all this healing business and just make Mr Randi a nice hot cup of tea.



I will use water Some sort of Washcloth. And a Container that will have water in it and my testee to Apply a Body Part to the Container.


As previously mentioned, this is just complicating a simple test for no good reason. You mentioned that the washcloth was necessary to prevent to much heat being transferred, but there's no need to limit yourself in this way. Use a thermometer instead of a body part and let yourself go. We want steam!



While using the air water My hot hands my Testee's body part withn that water I will Heat the air and if need to be I May Use Perpetual Motion in the water with my hand To Quickly Create the ElectroMagnetic Field And then Hold The Energy There Between My hand And The Container of Water With My Testee's Body In it Until I Stop


You can heat the air, the oceans and Comet Halley if you like. You can use perpetual motion, electromagnetic fields or quantum neutrino anti-matter waves too, if that's what your ability produces. As long as you are demonstrated to be the source of whatever energy is involved, and as long as the water gets hotter, your job here is done.


PS Please submit your claim soon. Your SHIFT key may not have much life left in it.

[fuelair]

It is not the same each time. Differant Tasks Take Differant Steps. One thing is for sure is that I will Heat My body and everything around me My hands will get hot. I will use water Some sort of Washcloth. And a Container that will have water in it and my testee to Apply a Body Part to the Container. While using the air water My hot hands my Testee's body part withn that water I will Heat the air and if need to be I May Use Perpetual Motion in the water with my hand To Quickly Create the ElectroMagnetic Field And then Hold The Energy There Between My hand And The Container of Water With My Testee's Body In it Until I StopThis is not meant as an insult and hopefully a complete response from you will help. Unless you are faking for fun or such, English cannot be your first language - most of your sentences are in an order that does not correspond to the word order in an English sentence and though you are using English words most are not being used the way a full speaker of English would use them. So, Question 1: What is your first language? 2: How old were you when you learned English? 3:Have you taken any High School or higher level science classes - especially Physics, Chemistry and/or Biology. (I am suspecting a No based on the way you are using several words). More questions once we get these.

[AstralWar]

This is not meant as an insult and hopefully a complete response from you will help. Unless you are faking for fun or such, English cannot be your first language - most of your sentences are in an order that does not correspond to the word order in an English sentence and though you are using English words most are not being used the way a full speaker of English would use them. So, Question 1: What is your first language? 2: How old were you when you learned English? 3:Have you taken any High School or higher level science classes - especially Physics, Chemistry and/or Biology. (I am suspecting a No based on the way you are using several words). More questions once we get these.

My first language is English and only language. No i do not have any classes at all. Do you sugest any that i should hurry up and join?

[Czarcasm]

My first language is English and only language. No i do not have any classes at all. Do you sugest any that i should hurry up and join?
How far did you get in school?

[chillzero]

Can I choose who i want to be my Patient

Please read the rules linked in post 23 before asking anything further. Those and the FAQs should answer much of what you need.

[DarthFishy]

(My bold)

Three Quanta in one paragraph. That's enough to convince me.

* DarthFishy wonders what the minimum number of Quanta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quanta)is for a woo post to be successfully posted? And do Capital letters require more Quanta? Enquiring minds want to know!

[Mojo]

The Magnetic Field Might even make Gravity Increase.


OK, that's a testable claim. What you would need to test this is a set of scales, sufficiently sensitive to detect the increase in weight caused by your "field", with no other way you could affect the reading other than by the "field" increasing gravity. I suggest that you try this yourself before going public with it.

[aggle-rithm]

I am from California.

Big surprise.

[aggle-rithm]

My first language is English and only language.

Oh, dear.

Good luck with...all that.

[hopfen]

Based on the General Skepticism forum, and posts like this:
Just to clear something up when i mentioned Bacterial and or Viral I was just throwing it out there to feed all you trolls. That was funny that you all thought that I had made a mistake. But of course how could i resist since it had been the first medical problem brought my way.

I wonder why people are feeding this particular troll.

[chillzero]

Please, let's stop getting personal about this, and stick strictly to the topic, as per the requirement for the Million Dollar Challenge section.

[Czarcasm]

I think we need to know how much schooling he has had, to know how to to negotiate a proper Challenge-especially since he has admitted that he hasn't taken high school Physics, Chemistry or Biology. It would help to know how much math he understands, too.

[chillzero]

I have no problem with that, Czarcasm.

[fuelair]

My first language is English and only language. No i do not have any classes at all. Do you sugest any that i should hurry up and join?
Let me restate the question - and I must now add to part of it:If English is indeed your first language, then in what school/schools were you taught English and what is the highest grade you reached? If you attended high school, you had to have taken certain courses in Science - including at least one of the three I mentioned. As to what I would suggest you joining rapidly, at a bare minimum a course based on the Conceptual Physics book (since, if we are correctly understanding what you are saying C.P. will give you some understanding of why we are saying the things we are saying in response to your claims).

[Akhenaten]

My first language is English and only language. No i do not have any classes at all. Do you sugest any that i should hurry up and join?

One should never stop learning. That's why most of us are here.

However, this is a side issue and best pursued elsewhere. Please don't derail your own thread.

For the moment, your communicative skills appear sufficient to the task at hand, that being to describe your particular ability. For my own part I would like to know why you require a patient for your demonstration when it seems that an ability to simply heat a container of water would be a far simpler and more self-evident test.

[AstralWar]

OK, that's a testable claim. What you would need to test this is a set of scales, sufficiently sensitive to detect the increase in weight caused by your "field", with no other way you could affect the reading other than by the "field" increasing gravity. I suggest that you try this yourself before going public with it.


Public I think that is to late. Great Finally maybe you can help me. What do i use I have no idea what to use how or anything On this matter.

When i come across this i have 2 objects moving at the same time close at first of course till i feel to 2 try to connect with the other then i make sure they do not touch I have to move these to objects faster and faster as i do this the 2 objects increase force the long i go and the faster i move I can gradually pull them apart further and further the distace between these objects determines how much force has been increased. as well as speed is increased also.

I do not know about science i do know math for the most part i guess. and wander if at sometime if this process goes on that eventually these 2 objects will finally collide force and momenum

and if not collide can this force connecting these 2 just vanish what would that be OK, that's a testable claim. What you would need to test this is a set of scales, sufficiently sensitive to detect the increase in weight caused by your "field", with no other way you could affect the reading other than by the "field" increasing gravity. I suggest that you try this yourself before going public with it.


Public I think that is to late. Great Finally maybe you can help me. What do i use I have no idea what to use how or anything On this matter.

When i come across this i have 2 objects moving at the same time close at first of course till i feel to 2 try to connect with the other then i make sure they do not touch I have to move these to objects faster and faster as i do this the 2 objects increase force the long i go and the faster i move I can gradually pull them apart further and further the distace between these objects determines how much force has been increased. as well as speed is increased also.

I do not know about science i do know math for the most part i guess. and wander if at sometime if this process goes on that eventually these 2 objects will finally collide force and momenum

and if not collide can this force trying to connect these 2just vanish what would that be called anything or just not happen. cause I have tried to just stop trying to avoid these objects from connecting and it then pretty much makes them collide. would that be called something What i did try and seem to have been able to do was to make one object flow away from the other doing in a pattern that the other one could not keep up with`so to say. Then that got me to thinkn that maybe just maybe these 2 objects might have started to connect right at first but when i do not let this occur me doing so makes these 2 objects start maybe what could be one chasing the other or even the one could be making the other object follow and That Pattern this is done could be like in a way to shake the object loose. or even use momenum and send it a certain direction then going the other direction when I do that one object still goes for a slight bit of a time longer. could that be called or is called anything at all when i have done this I wander if that one object that still goes that the distance and the force that was built up between these 2objects equels the time and flow of pattern that the one object still does in some way causing that force
to eventually reach ZERO


Is this in any way possible or might be possible or is called anything or maybe related in some manner to things with names

[AstralWar]

sorry about the double posting on the top half however i had typed this and i felt i needed to select all and copy real quick and luckily i did cause right after i on acident erased a whole lot of it i kept it the way it was and you can see how much was erased by accident and what was left;p) when i felt like i needed to hurry and do this it reminded me of those times when you are sleepin real good and you wake up all of a sudden and thinkyou are late for something or you missed an appointment of sort;p)

[AstralWar]

One should never stop learning. That's why most of us are here.

However, this is a side issue and best pursued elsewhere. Please don't derail your own thread.

For the moment, your communicative skills appear sufficient to the task at hand, that being to describe your particular ability. For my own part I would like to know why you require a patient for your demonstration when it seems that an ability to simply heat a container of water would be a far simpler and more self-evident test.



the washcloth heats up or may heat up. the container however does not heat up that is how the patient is able to receive the heat hydroeectricity and the water vibrating is acutally moving the water in a way that it does not all become hot. and doing to so keeps the patient cool cause if it heated up then the patient could be burned or the water would be absorbing all the heat and not being nice to the patient since the patient is the one in need of it free of CARBON DIOXIDE WOULD BE GREAT ALSO IN USING THIS It could become possible for every cell to be reached ;p)

[Mojo]

Public I think that is to late. Great Finally maybe you can help me. What do i use I have no idea what to use how or anything On this matter.


If you think you can increase gravity, then what you need is to measure the weight of an object a) when you are not using your "field", and b) when you are using your "field". If gravity increases, then so will the weight of the object. Do you have some kitchen scales? Put an object you think you can influence on the scales: can you make the weight of the object increase by using your "field"?

When i come across this i have 2 objects moving at the same time close at first of course till i feel to 2 try to connect with the other then i make sure they do not touch I have to move these to objects faster and faster as i do this the 2 objects increase force the long i go and the faster i move I can gradually pull them apart further and further the distace between these objects determines how much force has been increased. as well as speed is increased also.


This is a little unclear: are you saying that you can move objects using your "field"?

[AstralWar]

so sorry frogot to state the name and identify objects =my hands

[Mojo]

Your claim is that you can move your hands?

[steenkh]

Your claim is that you can move your hands?
He can move his hands without willing it :rolleyes:

ETA: Now, to be more constructive, since AstralWar claims that his hands get heavier, and we can hardly measure the weight of his hands without cutting them off, he would have to stand on a weight, and if his hands get heavier, the weight of the entire body should climb too, unless, of course, AstralWar thinks that his head gets lighter :)

[LordoftheLeftHand]

It is not the same each time. Differant Tasks Take Differant Steps. One thing is for sure is that I will Heat My body and everything around me My hands will get hot. I will use water Some sort of Washcloth. And a Container that will have water in it and my testee to Apply a Body Part to the Container. While using the air water My hot hands my Testee's body part withn that water I will Heat the air and if need to be I May Use Perpetual Motion in the water with my hand To Quickly Create the ElectroMagnetic Field And then Hold The Energy There Between My hand And The Container of Water With My Testee's Body In it Until I Stop

Ok, I think you are saying you can heat up water with your hands. This has promise for being testable. Here are some ideas:

Given a bowl of water at about 75 degrees F, could you then heat it up to above body temperature (say 110 degrees F) by placing your hand(s) in it for a certain about of time? Could this be measured by a normal themometer?

Or can this not be measured with a thermometer and only felt by another person? If that is the case then how about preforming this a certain number of times. Each time you would either produce the effect or not produce the effect. Then the other person would indicate if they felt the effect or not. These results could be put on a chart comparing when you tried to produce the effect and when you didn't and see if it matches what the other person felt.

Or better yet, by doing this can you detect another persons hand in the water? If so then you could just preform this experiement several times in a setup where you can't though normal sense tell if someone elses hand is in the water, then record your results and compare them to whether or not a persons hand was in the water.

I hope this gives you a good starting point.

LLH

[Akhenaten]

For the moment, your communicative skills appear sufficient to the task at hand, that being to describe your particular ability.



the washcloth heats up or may heat up. the container however does not heat up that is how the patient is able to receive the heat hydroeectricity and the water vibrating is acutally moving the water in a way that it does not all become hot. and doing to so keeps the patient cool cause if it heated up then the patient could be burned or the water would be absorbing all the heat and not being nice to the patient since the patient is the one in need of it free of CARBON DIOXIDE WOULD BE GREAT ALSO IN USING THIS It could become possible for every cell to be reached ;p)


Sorry, my mistake.

[IXP]

I do not know about science...

Finally, a statement that I can understand and agree with!

these 2 objects will finally collide force and momenum

Then stop using scientific terms, since you do not know what they mean.

Is this in any way possible or might be possible or is called anything or maybe related in some manner to things with names

No.

IXP

[steenkh]

AstralWar, it is iomportant that you find a way of describing your particular ability so that it can be demonstrated without referencing how anybody 'feels'. It is not a question if somebody feels the water is hot, it has to be actually hot in the sense that it can be measured with a thermometer. The same goes for gravity: it impresses nobody if your hands or body feel heavy, they actually need to be heavy, in the sense that this can be measured with a weight.

If you need to rely on feelings, like if the 'patient' will feel warm, heavy or whatever, you will need more than one 'patient', and some of them will be subjected to your powers, while others will not, and you need them to know the difference. This will complicate the test considerably. If at all possible, go for easily measured effects, and rely on feelings only as a last resort.

[AstralWar]

AstralWar, it is iomportant that you find a way of describing your particular ability so that it can be demonstrated without referencing how anybody 'feels'. It is not a question if somebody feels the water is hot, it has to be actually hot in the sense that it can be measured with a thermometer. The same goes for gravity: it impresses nobody if your hands or body feel heavy, they actually need to be heavy, in the sense that this can be measured with a weight.

If you need to rely on feelings, like if the 'patient' will feel warm, heavy or whatever, you will need more than one 'patient', and some of them will be subjected to your powers, while others will not, and you need them to know the difference. This will complicate the test considerably. If at all possible, go for easily measured effects, and rely on feelings only as a last resort.


Thank you very much for your post you helped me a lot thank you. I am still learning. I do not think it is gravity now cause they dont get heavy. I think it might be ElectroStatic. I Might be referring to EM Electrostatic Massage. do you think that it sounds more like that. I will keep studying and reading and searching. When i know what it is then i will call my friend and have her help me with the exposure of the press and media. As well as those that need help.

[steenkh]

Thank you very much for your post you helped me a lot thank you.
You are welcome!

I am still learning. I do not think it is gravity now cause they dont get heavy. I think it might be ElectroStatic. I Might be referring to EM Electrostatic Massage. do you think that it sounds more like that.
No, but I think there is nothing there except imagination, but it is not important what I think. Electrostatic forces would be just fine because they can easily be measured. What makes you think that electrostatic forces are involved? Can you make pieces of paper stand up when you move your hand a distance from them? Does the effect disappear if you are not wearing shoes?

[AstralWar]

You are welcome!


No, but I think there is nothing there except imagination, but it is not important what I think. Electrostatic forces would be just fine because they can easily be measured. What makes you think that electrostatic forces are involved? Can you make pieces of paper stand up when you move your hand a distance from them? Does the effect disappear if you are not wearing shoes?

for everyone else this is only imagination but for me it is reality. No I dont really mess with papers it has happend what you said but i thought by wind. it is a vibrating. when i looked it up i seen a doc with machines look like a tens machine on his wrist touching apatient. this is what i do this is what i have for a verry long time. there is no one in the world that can do this like me no one. the toe i mentioned in another thread that i can not post in anymore i stated about the toe i fied a fracture. I can do this and i use water ice and washcloths with no pain. Removing content already removed as inappropriate from other thread. Do not repost this.

I want to do the challenge and i will do the challenge if i am allowed

[AstralWar]

the shoes iwill have to check on i am not sure. but maybe cause i more than likely have had them on each and every time i think. thinkin back on it cause i have a photographic memory. I am a problem solver i am visual mathmatician i can see probability and sequence in shapes as well as numbers.

[chillzero]

AstralWar, if you want to apply for the challenge, and want to continue a discussion here, please pick one claim to be worked on for a protocol. Be clear, and be specific.

[AstralWar]

You are welcome!


No, but I think there is nothing there except imagination, but it is not important what I think. Electrostatic forces would be just fine because they can easily be measured. What makes you think that electrostatic forces are involved? Can you make pieces of paper stand up when you move your hand a distance from them? Does the effect disappear if you are not wearing shoes?


did you mean for the paper not to stand up with or without shoes. What effect do you mean dissapearing when not wearing shoes. or just being altered ot having a negative effect rahter than a positive one? after you help me with these maybe i have some to add to it. Thank you

[arthwollipot]

AstralWar, we don't much care what you say about what you have done before. What matters is what you can say you can do.

You haven't been at all clear on what you can do. You haven't provided us with any details, anything measurable, anything testable. I came up with several ideas in the other thread, but you apparently didn't like them. They didn't match up with what you say you can do (even though you once said that you could do anything). All we are trying to do is establish some way by which your claims can be conclusively demonstrated. You haven't been helpful in that regard. Don't you want the million dollars?

Finally: Your comment was edited by a moderator for a reason. That reason was explained to you. You have been given instructions on how to appeal that decision. The moderators have been more than reasonable in dealing with this. When you signed up to use the forum, you made an agreement to abide by the forum rules. When you break the rules, you are moderated. The rest of us have to deal with it, and so do you. If that upsets you, then I'm afraid that's tough.

So we ask again. What can you do? How can it be demonstrated?

[AstralWar]

Since there is absolutely no potential for there to be a glimmer of hope that anything at all could possibly come of this because the OP is totally ignorant of science, mathematics, physics, spelling, English composition, communication and basic logical thinking, I humbly request that this thread be given a mercy killing. After two pages of trying to get AstralWar to read the basic rules of the MDC, this last post of his shows that this particular war is lost.

I have used my MATH AND MIND performing a method of process and elimination from the begining. I put a lot of thought early on in it and it got my brain flowing and moving forward at times it did feel a bit still for me but I know that everyday i have took a step forward not a step backwards. there is no one that i have came across yet in nothing i have ever seen done or read that can do what i can with their hands and speed the healing process of a fracture that i have done. and it does not stop their we are now talkin about bacteria that can be airborne

I will still perform a few studys on my own and i will post them here and explain them and they worked and what i did

thank you all for your help

[arthwollipot]

AstralWar:

What can you do? How can it be demonstrated?

[Madalch]

So, are you saying that you can heal broken bones?

[arthwollipot]

And, I think, bacterial infections. But we mustn't put words in AstralWar's mouth. It's up to him to describe what he can and can't do.

[chillzero]

Off topic posts removed from thread. This thread, as with any in this section, should be kept strictly on topic to the MDC - and in this case, to a specific claim and defining it's protocol.

If that doesn't happen it will be combined with the thread in Paranormal, which is under Moderation status to keep it on topic.

Edit to add:
This thread has now been placed on moderated status due to this warning being ignored.

[Ravenwood]

So far, the easily testable claim was to heal fractures in seconds, but it would appear that as in the other thread, when forced to stay on topic & give concrete examples of what he can do, Astral war flees...I can see why Randi is ready to close the challenge. The only ones we seem to get that actually follow the rules are the truly deluded.

[Crundy]

If AW can cure bacterial infections, then what about having two covered petri dishes with a bacterial culture, and AW tries to kill the bacteria in one of the petri dishes by holding his/her* hands over it? Could do it with 4 control and 4 test dishes to get better degrees of freedom.

* AW, are you male or female? No offense, but your terminology and phrasing appears feminine to me.

[AstralWar]

He can move his hands without willing it :rolleyes:

ETA: Now, to be more constructive, since AstralWar claims that his hands get heavier, and we can hardly measure the weight of his hands without cutting them off, he would have to stand on a weight, and if his hands get heavier, the weight of the entire body should climb too, unless, of course, AstralWar thinks that his head gets lighter :)


can it be measured for my weight to get lighter? It was not gravity cause the weight did not increase they seem to have gotten lighter as well as my body in a way. Can my body weigh lighter and decrease.


Also the shoes do have an effect they seem to be verry important everytime i have healed someone i had my shoes on. one time i was not wearing my shoes and i could not heal that person but instead caused pain. that could be a positive and negative effect right?

As to the paper i remember as a child in school i would always walk by classmates desks and going back to my seat papers would always fall without me touching them but my hand would come close to them. I always felt bad but noticed it only happend on one side not both.

[AstralWar]

If AW can cure bacterial infections, then what about having two covered petri dishes with a bacterial culture, and AW tries to kill the bacteria in one of the petri dishes by holding his/her* hands over it? Could do it with 4 control and 4 test dishes to get better degrees of freedom.

* AW, are you male or female? No offense, but your terminology and phrasing appears feminine to me.


How can i try this at home for a double blind test. and what would be a success. would the bacteria be affecting something or just by itself? and what kind of dishes would be used like the bacteria in water ina sterling silver bowl.

I am a Man. I say and do things and see things through my heart and not my Male Intellect;p)

[Mojo]

can it be measured for my weight to get lighter? It was not gravity cause the weight did not increase they seem to have gotten lighter as well as my body in a way. Can my body weigh lighter and decrease.


You now seem to be claiming that by using your powers you can make your body weight decrease.

I'm pretty certain that being able to alter your body weight at will (either by increasing or decreasing it) would be considered paranormal.

By how much can you decrease your weight, and for how long?

[Czarcasm]

can it be measured for my weight to get lighter? It was not gravity cause the weight did not increase they seem to have gotten lighter as well as my body in a way. Can my body weigh lighter and decrease.Yes, we'll do it using something recently invented. It's called a "scale".As to the paper i remember as a child in school i would always walk by classmates desks and going back to my seat papers would always fall without me touching them but my hand would come close to them. I always felt bad but noticed it only happend on one side not both.This is due to an effect known in scientific circles as "wind". If you wave your hand swiftly over loose paper, you create "wind" that will move the paperwork.

[chillzero]

Astral War - pick one claim for discussion here, please.

[AstralWar]

Astral War - pick one claim for discussion here, please.


My claim has been picked it is called ElectroStatic Energy;p)

with this i can do many things. I just need to disscuss somethings. I just have not decided on what I will do for the test is all. There has been no one that has ever came on here and tried to disscuss their ability in all aspects. I try to disscuss it with science also. cause if i am just science then i dont need to do a test or challenge. I have disscussed a few things they all go together regarding my hands.

Everything i think of to do I also need to find a way to do before i do the challenge in a certain environment and scedule it not just be able to perform when needed.


When i said i can heal fractures and speed up the healing. if i could do this can i use things to help me do this?

or does it have to all be done by my body alone?

[steenkh]

can it be measured for my weight to get lighter? It was not gravity cause the weight did not increase they seem to have gotten lighter as well as my body in a way. Can my body weigh lighter and decrease.
If your body or hands only feel lighter, this ability is worthless for a test: they have to actually be lighter.

As for your electrostatic abilities, it seems that you do not really know what static electricity is. I think you should find somebody who could explain it to you, give you some practical examples. You should also also find a measuring device to test if you can affect static electricity.

If you do not test this yourself, you will flop at the real test. Do not just feel that you can influence static electricity: measure it, and you will be on your way to a million dollars, unless you are changing the static electricity through natural action.

[petre]

My claim has been picked it is called ElectroStatic Energy;p)

with this i can do many things. I just need to disscuss somethings. I just have not decided on what I will do for the test is all. There has been no one that has ever came on here and tried to disscuss their ability in all aspects. I try to disscuss it with science also. cause if i am just science then i dont need to do a test or challenge. I have disscussed a few things they all go together regarding my hands.

Everything i think of to do I also need to find a way to do before i do the challenge in a certain environment and scedule it not just be able to perform when needed.


When i said i can heal fractures and speed up the healing. if i could do this can i use things to help me do this?

or does it have to all be done by my body alone?

While I won't even pretend to speak for JREF, it should be fine to use whatever you wish so long as the result can still be deemed paranormal. Depending on what action you're performing, inspection of any props may be necessary to determine that they could not normally perform the act.

[tapman]

AstralWar, your posts are neither coherent nor do you seem to have understood the rules of the JREF Challenge. (http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-application.html)

Please describe clearly what you intend to do to make "sure this challenge gets put to an end".

Just because the guy has a hard time writing about his claimed ability doesn't mean we shouldn't help him.

He sounds dedicated, and honestly believes he has something. I would like to show him some respect by asking members that live close to him to meet with him, and help him "coherently" put his ideas and claims down on paper so he can be tested.

don't send him on a wild goose chase reading the challenge. He obviously needs a little help. If we are all dedicated to the truth here, someone please step up and give him a hand.

Good on you buddy.

[AstralWar]

You are welcome!


Does the effect disappear if you are not wearing shoes?

Why the shoes. what does it mean with shoes and without them in scientific terms. what about it being transfered from me to another person without touch?


If your body or hands only feel lighter, this ability is worthless for a test: they have to actually be lighter

they never really felt lighter cause of gravity keeps me on the ground;p) however i have felt that if there was no gravity keeping me on the ground i would fly.


If you do not test this yourself, you will flop at the real test. Do not just feel that you can influence static electricity: measure it, and you will be on your way to a million dollars, unless you are changing the static electricity through natural action.

what would be an example of natural action.

[AstralWar]

While I won't even pretend to speak for JREF, it should be fine to use whatever you wish so long as the result can still be deemed paranormal. Depending on what action you're performing, inspection of any props may be necessary to determine that they could not normally perform the act.

tyvm Petre. I was just askin cause it helps speed things up for me and who ever i am helping. when it comes to fractures and speeding up the process of them healing i perform this in less than 5 mins easy prob like 2 2 in a half mins more than likely. just 1 to 2 icecubes takin the time to melt and then about 25 seconds and im done. and all i pretty much do is the ice.

[fromdownunder]

Just because the guy has a hard time writing about his claimed ability doesn't mean we shouldn't help him.

He sounds dedicated, and honestly believes he has something. I would like to show him some respect by asking members that live close to him to meet with him, and help him "coherently" put his ideas and claims down on paper so he can be tested.

don't send him on a wild goose chase reading the challenge. He obviously needs a little help. If we are all dedicated to the truth here, someone please step up and give him a hand.

Good on you buddy.

The main problem here is that nobody, including him, appears to understand what his claimed ability is. It seems to change with every post he makes. And since even what he claims he can do cannot even be established, this does make helping him rather difficult.

Since you appear to wish to be of some help, perhaps you could provide advice as to what he should do. Many of the posts here have tried to tease out what his ability actually is. Perhaps a wonderfully sympathetic and honest person such as yourself will be more succesful in doing this, since you appear to have an empathy that most here lack.

Go for it, rather than just sit on the sidelines and cheer.

Norm

[AstralWar]

Just because the guy has a hard time writing about his claimed ability doesn't mean we shouldn't help him.

He sounds dedicated, and honestly believes he has something. I would like to show him some respect by asking members that live close to him to meet with him, and help him "coherently" put his ideas and claims down on paper so he can be tested.

don't send him on a wild goose chase reading the challenge. He obviously needs a little help. If we are all dedicated to the truth here, someone please step up and give him a hand.

Good on you buddy.

thank you verry much tapman. I love help. I love to hear what other people think and listen to what they know and can offer me. Just know that i am not the one that will be hunting wild geese;p) THIS IS A CHALLENGE AND NO ONE IS EXEMPT TO OFFER AS WELL AS ACCEPT MY PATH IS TO SHOW MR RANDEE WHAT HE HAS BEEN ASKIN FOR YEARS

In one of the rules it states that things can be disscussed for the test. so why would i stare at the challenge commandments for nothing that lead to nowhere;p) but circles lol


I would love to talk to or meet with people that might even be interested in meeting with me to help with the situation. I do live in Nor Cal

[Crundy]

We all have no problem with helping you, but you are making it very difficult to assist with a protocol design. You said you can make your hands heavier, the you said they don't get heavy, they get light, but they don't actually change weight because of gravity, and if there wasn't any gravity you would float. No offense, but if there wasn't any gravity quite a lot of things would float.

Try and pick something specific you can do that can be observed and measured. If you are electrostatic, can you move objects without touching them (telekinesis)? Try putting a mug onto a desk and make it move without touching it.

[petre]

It might help focus some to look at the problem from another angle.

If the test were to be performed for a neutral observer's video camera, and then that observer were to post the video for us to see, what paranormal event might we verify only from what we see in the video? Assume that we, the viewers, trust that the observer has set up conditions to prevent you from cheating in any way.

There will be no way for us to know what's in your mind, feel what you feel, or in any way percieve your experience of the test, nor the observer's experience. The only information we will have is what we can see in the video.

Do you possess enough knowledge of this ability to identify something that would present itself in such a situation, or do you need more time to explore it to see if anything fits this criteria?

[AstralWar]

The main problem here is that nobody, including him, appears to understand what his claimed ability is.


MY CLAIMED ABILITY IS HEALING THAT IS ONE OF MY POWERS. HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM. NOT ALL WILL UNDERSTAND RIGHT AWAY ESPECIALLY WHEN NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO WHAT I CAN.


[/QUOTE]It seems to change with every post he makes.[/QUOTE]

MAYBE THAT MAYBE PART OF YOUR PROBLEM YOU SEE IT AS CHANGE. I SEE IT AS ADDING MORE TO THE EQUATION.



[/QUOTE]And since even what he claims he can do cannot even be established, this does make helping him rather difficult.[/QUOTE]


EXPLAIN ESTABLISHED HERE PLEASE. PLEASE GIVE EXAMPLES OF THIS.

[/QUOTE]Since you appear to wish to be of some help, perhaps you could provide advice as to what he should do. Many of the posts here have tried to tease out what his ability actually is.[/QUOTE]

TEASE OUT THAT IF SO SO FUNNY. HEALING IS MY ABILITY.

[/QUOTE]Perhaps a wonderfully sympathetic and honest person such as yourself will be more succesful in doing this, since you appear to have an empathy that most here lack.[/QUOTE]

WHAT WOULD EMPATHY OR HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING HERE REGARDING ME. MAYBE FROMDOWNUNDER YOU SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING.[/QUOTE]



[/QUOTE]Norm[/QUOTE]


AW

[AstralWar]

It might help focus some to look at the problem from another angle.

If the test were to be performed for a neutral observer's video camera, and then that observer were to post the video for us to see, what paranormal event might we verify only from what we see in the video? Assume that we, the viewers, trust that the observer has set up conditions to prevent you from cheating in any way.

There will be no way for us to know what's in your mind, feel what you feel, or in any way percieve your experience of the test, nor the observer's experience. The only information we will have is what we can see in the video.

Do you possess enough knowledge of this ability to identify something that would present itself in such a situation, or do you need more time to explore it to see if anything fits this criteria?

That is interesting Petre. How was the camera set up what type of view? like maybe negative or sephia or infra red.

What do you have in mind Petre anything particular?

when it comes to something like this petre i need to ask is it about me being observed and measured

or results from what i do

in all cases in this testing it seems that it was either pass or fail right away from seeing what if what ever it is i do cannot be determined in that instant as a success or a failure because someone i gave a healing to needs to be evaluated would this effect the challenge

when it comes to pain THE BRAIN DOES NOT FEEL PAIN IN ANY WAY ANY PAIN THE BRAIN FEELS COMES FROM A MESSAGE SENT FROM OUTSIDE THE BRAIN AND SENT TO THE BRAIN ;P) I DO NOT RELY ON WHAT SOMEONE FEELS OR WHAT I FEEL OR THINK I LIKE RESULTS


I HAD A TAPE OF A HEALING I DID I CAN NOT FIND IT I MOVED AND DO NOT KNOW WHERE IT IS AT. WHEN I FIND IT BELEIVE ME I WILL POST WHERE EVER I CAN.

I will try something using a camera on me and see what happens seems like it could be a bit fun. what type of picture effect should i use that can see ElectroStatic coming off of me or my hands. or any type of electricity between my hands.

[Ravenwood]

http://www.trifield.com/EMF_meter.htm
one of these would be a good way to measure any emitted EMF

[steenkh]

Why the shoes. what does it mean with shoes and without them in scientific terms. what about it being transfered from me to another person without touch?
The shoes could isolate you electrically from grounding and help build up a voltage in your body. Electrical energy can be transferred without touch through sparks, and possibly thropugh other means also (I am a bit hazy on this).

they never really felt lighter cause of gravity keeps me on the ground;p) however i have felt that if there was no gravity keeping me on the ground i would fly.
Which is correct: if there was no gravity you would fly!

what would be an example of natural action.
If you are charged with static electricity you can make certain light things move by waving your hands over them. For people who do not understand static electricity, this looks supernatural, but it is natural.

[steenkh]

We all have no problem with helping you, but you are making it very difficult to assist with a protocol design. You said you can make your hands heavier, the you said they don't get heavy, they get light, but they don't actually change weight because of gravity, and if there wasn't any gravity you would float. No offense, but if there wasn't any gravity quite a lot of things would float.
I would say that AstralWar only has a vague feeling that s/he has supernatural abilities, but s/he has no real idea of exactly what, and is probably also not really able to distinguish the supernatural from the natural.

This is not a problem of bringing AstralWar closer to take the challenge but to teach him/her about the natural world to enable him/her an understanding of his/her (lack of) abilities.

[fromdownunder]

[quote=AstralWar;3884660]MY CLAIMED ABILITY IS HEALING THAT IS ONE OF MY POWERS. /quote]

Good. Focus on that. Forget the asides about how you do it. Forget heating water, hands getting heavier, hands getting lighter, gravity and other distractions.

The only thing you need to do is focus on the healing part. All you have to do is explain exactly what you intend to do to heal somebody, and what you intend to heal. A formal protocol can be developed around that.

Be as specific as possible, which will simplify the development of a protocol

Norm

[William Smith]

MY CLAIMED ABILITY IS HEALING THAT IS ONE OF MY POWERS.
...

Great. How would you demonstrate your alleged power?

Have you talked to trained medical personnel about your claimed powers and what were their responses?

[Paul2]

AstralWar, can you select just a single disease or symptom of a disease that you have healed so we can discuss it here?

After you've named just one, I'll have some more questions.

[AstralWar]

The shoes could isolate you electrically from grounding and help build up a voltage in your body. Electrical energy can be transferred without touch through sparks, and possibly thropugh other means also (I am a bit hazy on this).


Which is correct: if there was no gravity you would fly!


If you are charged with static electricity you can make certain light things move by waving your hands over them. For people who do not understand static electricity, this looks supernatural, but it is natural.


Yes I agree that it can be transferred without touch. That one time when i had my shoes off and had a persons hand in a small bucket of water it was not sparks it was a solid line and seemed to be real thick.

one time when i transfered sparks i built up to about 2 feet long;p)

fly? some might just stay in the same spot and go nowhere on their own unless help by someone else. my hands are like propellars.

since there is gravity i can do so much build up energy and cause wind to flow in a certain direction;p) like fans not only on a scale for rooms however on a scale regarding the world.


EVEN VIBRATIONS

[Crundy]

HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM.
I'm putting that on a t-shirt :D

OK, so, healing. Good. So could you describe what you are able to heal people of? Can we try my killing bacteria idea if you can cure people of bacterial infections?

Or, what about finding a couple of plants infected with a mosaic virus, and you cure one of the plants and not the other?

[TheDaver]

MY CLAIMED ABILITY IS HEALING THAT IS ONE OF MY POWERS. Please don’t type entirely in capital letters. That’s the web equivalent of yelling and it’s considered very rude when done in excess. “Healing” is much too vague to test. For example, if you did your work on a cut finger, and it healed in the ordinary amount of time, you could claim that that was your talent at work, when of course it wasn’t. Or, you could say that although the cut didn’t seem to heal faster than normal, a bruise on the subject’s arm seemed to. You see what I mean?

HOW IS YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM GIVING LECTURES ON A PROBLEM.
If you can’t bother to clearly state what it is you can do, then how do you expect to be properly tested?

NOT ALL WILL UNDERSTAND RIGHT AWAY ESPECIALLY WHEN NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO WHAT I CAN.
Whether you’re able to do whatever the heck it is you’re claiming still remains to be seen!

It seems to change with every post he makes.
MAYBE THAT MAYBE PART OF YOUR PROBLEM YOU SEE IT AS CHANGE. I SEE IT AS ADDING MORE TO THE EQUATION.
Not when your claims completely contradict one another.

And since even what he claims he can do cannot even be established, this does make helping him rather difficult.
EXPLAIN ESTABLISHED HERE PLEASE.
Established: Determined. You’ve been too vague with your claims to determine just what you want to be tested.

Since you appear to wish to be of some help, perhaps you could provide advice as to what he should do. Many of the posts here have tried to tease out what his ability actually is.
TEASE OUT THAT IF SO SO FUNNY. HEALING IS MY ABILITY.
There’s absolutely nothing paranormal about healing! I scratched myself at work last week and since then it has healed. Should I apply for the MDC now too?!

Perhaps a wonderfully sympathetic and honest person such as yourself will be more succesful in doing this, since you appear to have an empathy that most here lack.
WHAT WOULD EMPATHY OR HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING HERE REGARDING ME. MAYBE FROMDOWNUNDER YOU SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING.
Since (for the fiftieth time) your claims are too vague, you don’t even seem to understand the fact, and you have such a hard time understanding any of the logic dished out by the other members here, it looks like we need someone with a lot of patience and empathy to coax out of you whatever the heck it is you claim to do.

[fromdownunder]

Yes I agree that it can be transferred without touch. That one time when i had my shoes off and had a persons hand in a small bucket of water it was not sparks it was a solid line and seemed to be real thick.

one time when i transfered sparks i built up to about 2 feet long;p)

fly? some might just stay in the same spot and go nowhere on their own unless help by someone else. my hands are like propellars.

since there is gravity i can do so much build up energy and cause wind to flow in a certain direction;p) like fans not only on a scale for rooms however on a scale regarding the world.


EVEN VIBRATIONS

So have you given up on the "healing" protocol already? I thought you said that's what you did. Can you please stay on topic so that a healing protocol can be established, rather than continually derailing your own thread by changing the subject away from the MDC?

Norm

[AstralWar]

So have you given up on the "healing" protocol already? I thought you said that's what you did. Can you please stay on topic so that a healing protocol can be established, rather than continually derailing your own thread by changing the subject away from the MDC?

Norm


What i said was not off topic. it is regarding ELECTROSTATIC MY CLAIM A CLAIM THAT NO ONE HAS EVER STATED IN AN APPLICATION With my shoes on is the healing process without does not heal but hurt which is the opposite a positive outcome and a negaitive outcome it is one of the rules

Editing before approval - off topic comment removed.

[steenkh]

So have you given up on the "healing" protocol already? I thought you said that's what you did. Can you please stay on topic so that a healing protocol can be established, rather than continually derailing your own thread by changing the subject away from the MDC?
I wonder why everybody are telling him to concentrate on healing, which is the one ability of his that is extremely difficult to test. He seems very confused to me, and as you note, he has difficulty staying on one subject. I think you will find that until he himself grasps what he can really do, he will constantly shoot off in all directions

If he is not working as a healer, he will not have a stream of patients on whom he can test his abilities, so any venture in this direction cannot be probed through self-test. The truth, which is obvious to us all, will only appear in the challenge test.

[Jackalgirl]

Howdy, AW --

JG weighing in again. Been away a while -- work & kid, don't you know. ; )

I know other people have said this, but I just wanted to say that I think that you should start VERY simply and work your way up.

Remember that according to the rules of the Challenge, you have to bear ALL of the costs of your demonstration. If you have to find "broken" people, then get them all into a controlled environment to heal them, YOU will be paying for their transportation and lodging. If a doctor will be required to look the people over before & after your demonstration (which is likely), YOU will have to pay for the doctor's time. And so forth. That's going to get expensive.

And simple. We're also looking for simple. Because what we want to do is demonstrate that you are doing something that can't be explained by ANYthing else. We want a test so obvious, so cut & dry, that there can be absolutely NO doubting that you're achieving the effect paranormally. No placebo effect or confirmation bias. Something like broken bones. Can you heal, by touch, a broken bone? Remember, you are going to have to pay for the time and transportation of any test subject(s) in question, the time of the doctor(s), and for x-rays.

If you still want to pursue healing, then by all means do so -- but do come up with a list of things that you can heal. We'll try to figure out which ones would be the simplest -- and least expensive.

BUT -- if you can do more than one thing, then try picking something that is cheaper to test. For example, you mention that you can control the wind:

since there is gravity i can do so much build up energy and cause wind to flow in a certain direction;p) like fans not only on a scale for rooms however on a scale regarding the world.

Since you say "not only", this implies that you can cause the air in a room to flow in a chosen direction. Is that correct? At what rate can you make the air move? Could you knock over an object across the room? How light does the object have to be? Could you, say, knock over an empty 2 liter soda bottle?

How precise can you move the airflow? If I were to set up, say, three soda bottles, could you knock over just one of them?

See where I'm going with this? The test would consist of you, possibly a friend, and some empty 2 liter soda bottles. The only thing you'd have to pay for is transportation & lodging of you and your buddy (and possibly some soda bottles) to/at the test site. If there's a proctor in your area, there'd be practically no cost at all. AND it would give you the "drop dead" evidence we all want.

[fromdownunder]

I wonder why everybody are telling him to concentrate on healing, which is the one ability of his that is extremely difficult to test. He seems very confused to me, and as you note, he has difficulty staying on one subject. I think you will find that until he himself grasps what he can really do, he will constantly shoot off in all directions

If he is not working as a healer, he will not have a stream of patients on whom he can test his abilities, so any venture in this direction cannot be probed through self-test. The truth, which is obvious to us all, will only appear in the challenge test.


The problem is that we need to get to a point where at least something needs to be established as a power so consideration can be given to designing a test around that power. I have concentrated on healing because of this:


MY CLAIMED ABILITY IS HEALING THAT IS ONE OF MY POWERS.


Unless we try to focus on something, then the thread will continue to flail off in all directions, such as the post I was responding to:


since there is gravity i can do so much build up energy and cause wind to flow in a certain direction;p) like fans not only on a scale for rooms however on a scale regarding the world.


EVEN VIBRATIONS


How does one even start trying to consider a protocol where the claim is to "cause wind to flow in a certain direction...on a scale regarding the world". What does this even mean?

Unless we can narrow the whole thing down from claims that appear to grow with every post, there has to be a point where we settle on what is going to be tested. Since the healing appears to be his major focus, and is at least testable, unless somebody wants to design a test around wind direction, why not at least try and cut to the chase? All I am trying to do is help focus on the task at hand.

Norm

[steenkh]

Unless we try to focus on something, then the thread will continue to flail off in all directions, such as the post I was responding to:
And you do not think the thread will flail off in all directions once the difficulties of testing healing abilities become clear?

How does one even start trying to consider a protocol where the claim is to "cause wind to flow in a certain direction...on a scale regarding the world". What does this even mean?
Exactly. A person who can invent claims such as this do not need to be pushed towards a firm protocol of any of his abilities, but need to gain a clearer picture of what his (lack of) abilities actually are.

All I am trying to do is help focus on the task at hand.

I do understand you, but I do not think the task at hand is to perform a test for the JREF Challenge, but to help a person who knows nothing about physics, and who might very possibly have problems of his own.

[chillzero]

And you do not think the thread will flail off in all directions once the difficulties of testing healing abilities become clear?

That's why it's on moderated status.

I do understand you, but I do not think the task at hand is to perform a test for the JREF Challenge, but to help a person who knows nothing about physics, and who might very possibly have problems of his own.

Unfortunately, this is the MDC section, and has to be kept strictly on topic: therefore the challenge to thread posters is twofold.

[Czarcasm]

Then might I humbly suggest that this particular challenger is not yet ready for this particular forum?

[chillzero]

Nothing I can do about that.

[AstralWar]

Howdy, AW --

JG weighing in again. Been away a while -- work & kid, don't you know. ; )

I know other people have said this, but I just wanted to say that I think that you should start VERY simply and work your way up.

Remember that according to the rules of the Challenge, you have to bear ALL of the costs of your demonstration. If you have to find "broken" people, then get them all into a controlled environment to heal them, YOU will be paying for their transportation and lodging. If a doctor will be required to look the people over before & after your demonstration (which is likely), YOU will have to pay for the doctor's time. And so forth. That's going to get expensive.

And simple. We're also looking for simple. Because what we want to do is demonstrate that you are doing something that can't be explained by ANYthing else. We want a test so obvious, so cut & dry, that there can be absolutely NO doubting that you're achieving the effect paranormally. No placebo effect or confirmation bias. Something like broken bones. Can you heal, by touch, a broken bone? Remember, you are going to have to pay for the time and transportation of any test subject(s) in question, the time of the doctor(s), and for x-rays.

If you still want to pursue healing, then by all means do so -- but do come up with a list of things that you can heal. We'll try to figure out which ones would be the simplest -- and least expensive.

BUT -- if you can do more than one thing, then try picking something that is cheaper to test. For example, you mention that you can control the wind:



Since you say "not only", this implies that you can cause the air in a room to flow in a chosen direction. Is that correct? At what rate can you make the air move? Could you knock over an object across the room? How light does the object have to be? Could you, say, knock over an empty 2 liter soda bottle?

How precise can you move the airflow? If I were to set up, say, three soda bottles, could you knock over just one of them?

See where I'm going with this? The test would consist of you, possibly a friend, and some empty 2 liter soda bottles. The only thing you'd have to pay for is transportation & lodging of you and your buddy (and possibly some soda bottles) to/at the test site. If there's a proctor in your area, there'd be practically no cost at all. AND it would give you the "drop dead" evidence we all want.

thank you verry much you have helped me a lot. but another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is laws i am not sure if it is one of the rules however no laws can be broken while performing my test. Atleast i refuse to break a law;p)

[AstralWar]

The
How does one even start trying to consider a protocol where the claim is to "cause wind to flow in a certain direction...on a scale regarding the world". What does this even mean?



Norm

well lets see how about causing a big hurricane to veer off direction of the target that the news says will hit making it miss a target completly i have done it before and can do it again;p)

when is hurricane season is it coming up soon?

if they do not veer off i will weaken them so there will no massive destruction;p)

AW, I am passing this post for now, as it is a response to a previous question. However, when asked to pick one specific claim to stick to for discussion, you decided on healing. Stick to one topic, and the protocol for testing it, or this thread will be moved.

[dbw]

...right, so healing it is. This is a problem because Randi is almost certain to veto anything involving injured or sick people.

Could you fuse a snapped chicken bone back together?