Church of England " we need women"

[andyandy]

Could be the start of a schism in the Anglican movement

The Church of England was thrown into turmoil tonight over the issue of women bishops as it appeared to reject proposals that would have accommodated clergy strongly opposed to the historic change.

In a debate lasting more than four hours, the General Synod voted against the introduction of separate structures and "superbishops" because they amounted to institutionalised discrimination.

Instead, the 468 members narrowly agreed to the idea of introducing a code of practice, throwing out all compromises that would have appeased opponents of women bishops.

The code of practice has yet to be fully explored, but will not satisfy the demands of traditionalists and conservative evangelicals, who formed an alliance to block the consideration of any such code.

The synod's decision to proceed in a more liberal direction has infuriated the Church of England's influential Anglo-Catholic wing, which wants protection from women bishops.

One senior churchman, the Rev Prebendary David Houlding, said: "It's getting worse, it's going downhill very badly.

It's quite clear there's a pincer movement and we're being squeezed out. There is only one way forward: a code of practice."

He added: "There will be no walkout - yet."http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/07/anglicanism.religion2

A woman's place is in the home! None of this newfangled feminist malarkey about equality. Ideas above their station. They'll be wanting the vote next............

[jj]

They want "Protection from woman bishops"????

My goodness. What are they afraid of?

[Carnivore]

I'm not sure I understand the issues involved. If women can be priests in the Church of England what is the objection to them following the normal career path within the church? Are all the women priests so far rubbish at their jobs? Are there duties that a Bishop carries out that are impossible for females to carry out?

I mean surely it cant be just pure naked bigotry seeking to impose an artificial limit on the careers of priests that some other priests are openly and rabidly prejuidiced against? Can it?

What exactly is the "Anglo-Catholic wing", and why does it feel it needs "protection" from women bishops?

[andyandy]

They want "Protection from woman bishops"????

My goodness. What are they afraid of?

Perhaps the women's bumpy bits might lead them into temptation :)

[roseglass]

I heard about this last year and found it a little peculiar as well. The Anglo-Catholic wing is the group that supports Catholicism within the Church of England. The Arch-Bishop of Canterbury is a member of this faction.

[grayman]

Church of England " we need women"

First Mars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Needs_Women), now this.

[shadron]

I heard about this last year and found it a little peculiar as well. The Anglo-Catholic wing is the group that supports Catholicism within the Church of England. The Arch-Bishop of Canterbury is a member of this faction.

Yes, and the Catholic church is absolutely opposed to allowing women any ecclesiastical role higher than nun. No female deacons, no female priests, no female acolytes (alter - uh, boys). Particularly the conservative Roman Curia, the governing body (along with the Pope, who's also conservative). No women, not now and not ever.

The tradition reason is that Jesus gathered 12 men about him, and that was just his way of suggesting that women have to be poison from hell; why else would he have not called any of them? The real reason, is, of course,... tradition. If it was good enough for Peter, or Paul (who actually did consider them poison from hell) or Urban VIII or Pius XIV, then it's good enough for Ben. Besides, those Anglicans and Lutherans and Baptists do it; we don't want to be like those flakey cultists, do we? Next thing you know, some gay will want to be a priest...

[grayman]

The tradition reason is that Jesus gathered 12 men about him, and that was just his way of suggesting that women have to be poison from hell; why else would he have not called any of them?

Maybe Jesus was gay (http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/gayjesus.htm). An academic using star charts says so (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/05/29/1054177665090.html).

[Soapy Sam]

Seems it's a point of theological logic, and absolutely not just conservative sexism.
(Whoda thunkit?)
I heard a vicar (I notice they have a tendency to call them "priests" these days) on the radio , explaining that his doctor and solicitor are women (and possibly even his wife, his mama and some of his best friends)- but god evidently left instructions that bishops should be male. Species unspecified, so perhaps an ape would do, so long as a male ape.

He seemed to be missing the point.
There is no important difference between a man spouting nonsense and a woman doing so. The trick is to avoid spouting nonsense in the first place.

[supercorgi]

They want "Protection from woman bishops"????

My goodness. What are they afraid of?

Cooties.

[geni]

no female acolytes (alter - uh, boys).

Female alter servers have been around for a while. Formaly accepted since 1992.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altar_server#Female_altar_servers

[roseglass]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Catholicism

Here's a link from Wikipedia about the history and rise of Anglo-Catholicism within England. While not the article I was looking for, that atleast provides some info and background for why the movement with the CoE is very conservative.

[Steelmage]

Wasn't there a film about this in the 50's, oh right that Mars needs women.

[grayman]

Wasn't there a film about this in the 50's, oh right that Mars needs women.

See post #6

;)

[Magenta]

Church of England " we need women"


But do women need the Church of England? ;)

[Small Town Jesus]

I blame the pernicious influence of Dibley. Thin end of the wedge...

[Aitch]

I blame the pernicious influence of Dibley. Thin end of the wedge...

Thin? :eek:

(Just a joke - I actually quite like young Dawn;))

[Carnivore]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Catholicism

Here's a link from Wikipedia about the history and rise of Anglo-Catholicism within England. While not the article I was looking for, that atleast provides some info and background for why the movement with the CoE is very conservative.

Thanks for that! It's rather interesting just how broad the range of opinions is within the Cof E.

[learner]

women bishops v superbishops. Sounds like a fight i wanna see.

[Ysidro]

First Mars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Needs_Women), now this.

So I wasn't the only one with that thought. I'm pleased I'm not alone.

The other day I recall hearing something on NPR about a possible schism between the current administration and some folks who make U.S.A. fundies look almost sane.

[CrikeyBobs]

They want "Protection from woman bishops"????

My goodness. What are they afraid of?

Bashing the bishop?

More seriously though, I find it interesting and disturbing that the group opposed to women bishops call themselves traditionalists, as if that conveys some sort of legitimacy to what I call misogyny.

[Robin]

Could be the start of a schism in the Anglican movement
No, you would need a time machine for that. The Anglican movement is already well and truly split over which daft rules to cherry pick from Leviticus.

[shadron]

Female alter servers have been around for a while. Formaly accepted since 1992.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altar_server#Female_altar_servers

After my time, fortunately.

[richardm]

I'm not sure I understand the issues involved. If women can be priests in the Church of England what is the objection to them following the normal career path within the church?

This is the key question, isn't it? So far, all I've heard is that there are male priests who don't want to have to answer to a woman. So yeah, the bigotry is is blunt as that. (There's even been talk of having Super Bishops, who can deal with men who don't want to deal with women. It's hilarious)

[geni]

This is the key question, isn't it? So far, all I've heard is that there are male priests who don't want to have to answer to a woman. So yeah, the bigotry is is blunt as that. (There's even been talk of having Super Bishops, who can deal with men who don't want to deal with women. It's hilarious)

CofE is a broad church. Each parish gets to chose it's vicar. At the moment there are both parishes and vicar who want an all male priesthood. Now obviously they don't get that but they can see to it that their church has a male vicar and that the hiaracy above them is also all male thus they can pretty much ignore the issue. Women bishops put them in the position where they can no longer ignore the issue.

Super bishops get around the problem by allowing those who want an all male system to have it while allowing women bishops. Would probably work in much the same way as the catholic personal prelature thing.

[cj.23]

But do women need the Church of England? ;)


I don't know, but rather hope so. I'm an Anglican, that is CofE, and any lady who feels the need to encounter us is very welcome to drop a pm to the usual address. :D

cj x

[Beerina]

CofE is a broad church.

God, don't let the puns start already!