But they're christains!

[Roboramma]

A friend of mine told me about a dilema he was having last night:

There is a local dairy that he is considering buying milk from (they'll deliver it to his door every week, I think). He tasted the milk, and says it much better than the stuff he can get at the local supermarket. He was all set to sign up.

Then he went on their website. Apparently when he checked out their mission statement it said, (not a direct quote) "we are proud to run our dairy according to christian values..." something along those lines.

Now he's considering not buying milk from them. Not because they're christian, per se, but rather because of the political values he thinks that they likely hold, because of the fact that they are advertising their christianity.

What do you think? Should he buy the milk regardless, or choose to boycott the products of those he disagrees? How would you respond?

[NewtonTrino]

Who gives a crap? Seriously most Christians are pretend anyway and are just parroting what they are told. It's just milk!

It's not like they are coming over for dinner and a movie!

[Phase Inverter]

Unfortunately, if the tables were turned, the Christians would likely not knowingly buy milk from an atheist.

[jj]

Unfortunately, if the tables were turned, the Christians would likely not knowingly buy milk from an atheist.

A concious, church-spread boycott would be the most likely outcome.

[paximperium]

"Atheist Milk, still creamily delicious without God!!!"

[dglas]

Maybe he should go ask if they will sell to him, he being non-politically-Christian and all.

Do they use exorcism to sterilize the milk....?

[bobcarp]

Since most people in America are Christian, it's kind of a subliminal message saying, “You can trust us”. I’ve also seen Yellow Pages ads that have the Jesus Fish or a cross in the corner. What do they care if Atheists don’t buy the milk or whatever product or service they are selling. They figure they (Atheists) are at best 10% of the population.

[quixotecoyote]

I don't really see the problem with buying the milk.

As an aside, sometimes organizations who hype 'christian values' actually are more trustworthy than average because it'll bite then in the ass if they go hypocritical with the slogan. When I worked at a furniture/appliance store, the local Salvation Army had a wierd payment processing system that meant they couldn't fit into our payment plans, but I never worried about them missing payments because they always came through like they said they would.

[X]

Will drinking the milk force him to become CHristian?

No?

So then his only concern is that he doesn't want to support an organization that may have political and ideological leanings he disagrees with.

I say suck it up. Your friend gets good milk out of the bargain, let them have the money they earned by providing it. Unless, of course, the added cost isn't worth the better taste.

[Dogdoctor]

What does running a dairy with Christian values mean? Does it mean that if you don't have enough money they will give it to you for less or free? Does it mean they will rely on God to make sure their milk is safe? My reaction would depend on what they meant but if either of the above is true I wouldn't buy from them.

[Phase Inverter]

Not because they're christian, per se, but rather because of the political values he thinks that they likely hold, because of the fact that they are advertising their christianity.


If he were to stop doing business with everyone with whom he thinks he disagrees with politically, he'd have a lot fewer places to shop. It's probably best to just ignore their Christianity (and its politically implications) and rate them on their customer service.

I, personally, buy milk and eggs from a cooperative and have to go to a catholic church every week to pick up the goods. I just keep my mouth shut and get out as quickly as possible.

[TX50]

Do they deliver honey too? Exodus 3:8 :)

[Hamsterfan]

Just buy the milk. If it is better tasting and cheaper, all the better! I agree with all the people that are telling you to just ignore their Christianity. If they try to convert you or something, then yes, by all means be offended and avoid them. Otherwise, enjoy the milk.

[Roboramma]

Thanks for the replies, guys, that was pretty much what I said to him - "what does their christianity (or his assumption of their political views) have to do with buying milk from them?"

I suggested that if we want to affect change in the world, it makes more sense to do business with the people that we disagree with, than simply to segregate ourselves from them in the hopes that they'll go away. It's no different from a christian refusing to do business with a muslim because of their religious differences - in that case I'd also say, "what does that have to do with milk?!"
I think the more we engage in interactions (of that sort) with each other, the more likely we are to realise we're all just human, and actually listen to what each other are saying.

Another friend suggested that they may support political organizations with which my first friend disagrees. I think that's a valid point, but certainly one he should look into rather than simply assuming it to be true.

The first friend, by the way, isn't an atheist - he's a Buddhist with somewhat nebulous religious beliefs...

[Bikewer]

If the place is run according to "Christian values", do the cows care?

[plumjam]

I wouldn't worry, the cows are most likely Hindu.


I once went to a bank to open an account. I noticed that in the corner of their stationery it said "We abide by the principles of exploitative usury, reposession of family homes, and equal opportunities in the realm of interest-slavery."
I was greatly reassured by this.

[Piscivore]

I wouldn't worry, the cows are most likely Hindu.


I once went to a bank to open an account. I noticed that in the corner of their stationery it said "We abide by the principles of exploitative usury, reposession of family homes, and equal opportunities in the realm of interest-slavery."
I was greatly reassured by this.

:D

[Silentknight]

Just make sure that the milk comes from the cows, not the Christians themselves. And that it's really milk they're selling you. I mean, can you really trust Christians with all their white frothy fluids?

[kedo1981]

We had a lengthy article in our local news rag a few yarns ago, all about the “Christian” yellow pages.
Only Christian business need apply.
One of the funniest commits in the article was “when I hire a Christian contractor I know I won’t have any trouble”; right, so being Christian means all the lumber will be delivered on time, none of the ex felons the roofing subcontractor hires will nail your 15 year old daughter. Lolololololololol

[Bob Blaylock]

Being a Christian myself, I tend to take a dim view of those who feel a need to advertise their piety, especially in connection with secular business ventures. Being able to say to someone else, “You can trust me because I am a Christian; let's do business.” is not the point of being a Christian. Jesus himself had something to say on this, as recorded in Matthew 6:1-6,16-18 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/6/1-6,16-18#1).

As a Christian, I would rather trust an atheist than a fellow “Christian” who tries to impress me with his piety.

[Hokulele]

As long as he does not seethe a kid in it, he should be fine.

No, wait, that is Judaism. Never mind.

[flim flam]

i take my kids to a playgroup run by and in the local baptist church. i just keep my mouth shut and mumble during grace. oh, and i dont wear my landover baptist church heretic t-shirt. they're really nice and have the best toys so that kind of won out over my atheist principles. also they're not real preachy and pretty much accept anyone that rocks up. hey your friend can always unchristian the milk by reading passages from the god delusion over it :)

[westprog]

Unfortunately, if the tables were turned, the Christians would likely not knowingly buy milk from an atheist.


In the UK, probably a majority of small convenience stores are run by Hindus or Moslems. People still go in there to buy their milk, newpapers, chocolate and pornography.

[blauregen]

*unintentional doublepost*

[blauregen]

Unfortunately, if the tables were turned, the Christians would likely not knowingly buy milk from an atheist.

The AfA is kindly conducting a field test about whether Happy Meals are more important to the US-American public than conservative christian politics. It will be interresting to see whether it will be noticeable in McDonalds next balance sheet. :p

http://digg.com/food_drink/Boycott_The_AFA_Thinks_Ronald_McDonald_is_Lovin_It _and_Gay

[ponderingturtle]

A friend of mine told me about a dilema he was having last night:

There is a local dairy that he is considering buying milk from (they'll deliver it to his door every week, I think). He tasted the milk, and says it much better than the stuff he can get at the local supermarket. He was all set to sign up.

Then he went on their website. Apparently when he checked out their mission statement it said, (not a direct quote) "we are proud to run our dairy according to christian values..." something along those lines.

Now he's considering not buying milk from them. Not because they're christian, per se, but rather because of the political values he thinks that they likely hold, because of the fact that they are advertising their christianity.

What do you think? Should he buy the milk regardless, or choose to boycott the products of those he disagrees? How would you respond?


Well how much better is the milk?

Why not ask them what they mean by "we are proud to run our dairy according to christian values..."?

[Ocelot]

He I'm an atheist but I run my life according to values which overlap with many christian values.

I wonder which christian values they aspire to?

If "do unto others.." then I'm well up for that.

If they follow the parable of the Good Samaritan to recognise that I am their neighbour despite being of a differnt faith then all power to them.

If they're following the sermon on the mount and giving away all their worldly weath and possitions then I doubt they'll be in business for long.

If they go out of their way to stone adulterers and homsexuals then they can naff off.

[Civilized Worm]

Do christian principles forbid urinating in one's produce?

[ponderingturtle]

He I'm an atheist but I run my life according to values which overlap with many christian values.

I wonder which christian values they aspire to?

If "do unto others.." then I'm well up for that.

If they follow the parable of the Good Samaritan to recognise that I am their neighbour despite being of a differnt faith then all power to them.

If they're following the sermon on the mount and giving away all their worldly weath and possitions then I doubt they'll be in business for long.

If they go out of their way to stone adulterers and homsexuals then they can naff off.

They might well have problems with sources of animal seamen for their dairy if they have too many problems with homosexuals.

Bulls are generaly encouraged to mount bulls so that they can collect the seamen to inseminate the dairy cows.

[Ron_Tomkins]

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[triadboy]

Should he buy the milk regardless, or choose to boycott the products of those he disagrees? How would you respond?

In the dairy farm context - "chrisitian values" - means they received no pleasure milking the teats. I say drink it.

[Piscivore]

... sources of animal seamen I don't see that as a big problem. There's very little demand for them, as few animals have the opposable thumbs needed to work the lines.

...seamen to inseminate the dairy cows.
Almost makes me wish I'd joined the navy.

[pgwenthold]

While nominally I don't have a problem with the beliefs of people running businesses, I do have a problem when they feel that they need to advertise it as such, as if the fact they have "christian" values somehow makes them better than a business who doesn't. As always, I support everyone's right to have their own religious beliefs, but I also don't think it is right to throw them in people's faces.

Like the others, I really would like to know what it means to "run a dairy by christian values." I might call them on it to find out, but I don't see it as something I would be prima facie comfortable supporting.

[cbish]

Since most people in America are Christian, it's kind of a subliminal message saying, “You can trust us”. I’ve also seen Yellow Pages ads that have the Jesus Fish or a cross in the corner. What do they care if Atheists don’t buy the milk or whatever product or service they are selling. They figure they (Atheists) are at best 10% of the population.

This could go two ways.

I agree with bob that it could be some type of pandering. This goes along with another type of pandering, I've noticed recently, is to include some reference to "supporting the troops" even though that has nothing to do with their business.

However, maybe they do want to attract 'christian business'. My wife's family is Mormon and they pretty much deal exclusively with Mormon businesses. Sure, they'll go to WalMart if they have to, but for a mechanic, landscaper, contractor, doctor etc, pure party line!

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I wouldn't care, as long as the product or service was in some way affected or the buisness used its profits to support a very, very bad cause.

Domino's Pizza is run (or was it once run?) by a fundamentalist Catholic and sponsors numerous religious causes but it's irrelevant to me as long as their pizza is well-baked and reasonably priced. The Marriott Hotel is among many buisness ventures with ties to the Church of Latter Day Saints but I see no reason to boycott it solely because of that fact. B & H Photo-Video is run by Hasidic Jews but as long as my photographs are processed on time and in focus, they could be Albanian Gypsy Muslims for all I'm interested.

[RobRoy]

A friend of mine told me about a dilema he was having last night:

Having read the thread through, I can see where your friend’s dilemma might be, in regards to the political support he might be lending. Those who tout their Christianity and their Christian values tend to be a certain ilk. Usually (though not always) right-wing conservatives. If they’re advertising themselves as this, there is a potential (though I’m uncertain how high) that they contribute financially to a party or campaign that your friend might likely be directly opposed.

That being said, your friend should consider his particular financial contribution to this dairy, how much of that contribution is going to profit, how much of that profit might actually become a contribution, and how much that contribution might result in the change/direction your friend is opposed to.

My guess is, similar to most everyone else here, that the white, creamy, cold goodness he’s pouring on his Corn Flakes won’t result in global thermonuclear warfare, no matter how much moo-juice he can pound.

Besides, milk is for baby cows.

[Phase Inverter]

I agree with bob that it could be some type of pandering. This goes along with another type of pandering, I've noticed recently, is to include some reference to "supporting the troops" even though that has nothing to do with their business.


Reminds me of late 2001 when all the local gas stations and convenience stores put "God Bless America" on their storefronts.

[godofpie]

I live in the south eastern US and it is a common practice for people in small business to make mention in advertising of their xianity. It drives me nuts and I do my best to avoid those businesses. On the other hand there is nothing better than a big, cold glass of fresh-off-the-farm milk. I guess you have to balance your principles with deliciousness.

[ponderingturtle]

I wouldn't care, as long as the product or service was in some way affected or the buisness used its profits to support a very, very bad cause.

Domino's Pizza is run (or was it once run?) by a fundamentalist Catholic and sponsors numerous religious causes but it's irrelevant to me as long as their pizza is well-baked and reasonably priced. The Marriott Hotel is among many buisness ventures with ties to the Church of Latter Day Saints but I see no reason to boycott it solely because of that fact. B & H Photo-Video is run by Hasidic Jews but as long as my photographs are processed on time and in focus, they could be Albanian Gypsy Muslims for all I'm interested.

There is a difference between being christian and running a business and proclaiming to the world that you run a christian business.

[ponderingturtle]

Roborama, I am really curious, and would really like to know what they ment by christian dairy practices.

I also wonder if anyone has ever questioned that phrase.

[joobz]

Roborama, I am really curious, and would really like to know what they ment by christian dairy practices.

I also wonder if anyone has ever questioned that phrase.
I think it's like Vitamin D milk. But instead of being fortified with vitamins, it's fortified with Jesus.

[fuelair]

Well how much better is the milk?

Why not ask them what they mean by "we are proud to run our dairy according to christian values..."?If they get the cow pregnant, they marry her!!

[JoeTheJuggler]

<derail>
<snip>
a fundamentalist Catholic
<snip>
I've never heard this term before. The stuff I think of as "fundamentalist Christian" (Biblical inerrancy, faith alone as the means to salvation, etc.) doesn't fit with Catholic teaching. Can you tell me any more about this?
</derail>

The handful of people I know who mention their Christianity in connection with a business (even the fish logo on business cards) seem to think it means that they are more honest and fair than the rest of the business world. It sounds awfully presumptuous to me.

It also doesn't sound like anything particularly connected with Jesus (who certainly preached AGAINST the love and accumulation of money).

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

<derail>

I've never heard this term before. The stuff I think of as "fundamentalist Christian" (Biblical inerrancy, faith alone as the means to salvation, etc.) doesn't fit with Catholic teaching. Can you tell me any more about this?
</derail>

The handful of people I know who mention their Christianity in connection with a business (even the fish logo on business cards) seem to think it means that they are more honest and fair than the rest of the business world. It sounds awfully presumptuous to me.

It also doesn't sound like anything particularly connected with Jesus (who certainly preached AGAINST the love and accumulation of money).

Right you are! I used the wrong term when I meant to say: Traditionalist_Catholic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_Catholic).

And I seem to be wrong about Tom_Monaghan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Monaghan). While he is indeed a very conservative Catholic, he does not seem to be a traditionalist.

[pgwenthold]

There is a difference between being christian and running a business and proclaiming to the world that you run a christian business.

Bingo. Even though I am aware that Dominos is owned by a religious loon, they don't make it part of their marketing campaign. Similarly, someone mentioned the other day that Chik-Fil-A is also owned by a religiousite. However, I don't see that in their advertisements. Therefore, it is not the same as this case.