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View Full Version : Litvinenko case back in limelight. KGB murder or rogue elements?


Undesired Walrus
8th July 2008, 05:19 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7494865.stm

Accusations by senior British security sources that the Russian state backed the murder of Alexander Litvinenko shows that this issue continues to bedevil Russian-British relations.

The sources told the BBC's Newsnight programme that "there are strong indications that it was state action... and not a rogue element".

The use of lethal polonium "is evidence of state involvement", the sources said. After all, it is not a substance you can pick up at a department store.

The accusation is not fundamentally new. Nobody involved in the request to Russia for the extradition of Andrei Lugovoi has any doubts that only a state organisation could have ordered such an operation and provided the special radioactive means to carry it out.

The only issue was how far it had Kremlin approval.

The conclusion to be drawn from these latest comments is that Britain believes that the Russian security service the FSB was operating largely independently, but in a permissive environment in which the Kremlin signalled that action against critics was allowed.

The Russian parliament even passed a law making it legal to carry out assassinations abroad....

.....Britain could further escalate the dispute by revealing the evidence it has against Mr Lugovoi. This would help back up its accusations by providing the world with the background, including the radioactive trail through London.

It could alternatively, under the convention, ask the Russians to take on the prosecution themselves. However the British fear is that this would lead to an acquittal, in which case Mr Lugovoi might be free to travel without fear of arrest, as he cannot at the moment.



It is quite strange Bush can look in Putin's soul and find him 'straight forward and trustworthy' when he potentially has been ordering the deaths of the citizens of America's closest ally.

Naughtyhippo
8th July 2008, 06:46 AM
Was Litvinenko a British citizen?

theprestige
8th July 2008, 12:04 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7494865.stm



It is quite strange Bush can look in Putin's soul and find him 'straight forward and trustworthy' when he potentially has been ordering the deaths of the citizens of America's closest ally.
It is also quite strange that a stalwart skeptic such as yourself would resort to blatant and unsupported supposition, just to get in a dig at Bush. "Potentially" doesn't support conspiracy claims about 9/11, why should it support conspiracy claims about Putin?

Also, you're begging the question that a "straightforward and trustworthy" head of state cannot possibly order the assassination of enemies of the state.

(Please don't misunderstand me: I think there's all sorts of problems with Bush's evaluation of Putin. I'm just having a lot of trouble figuring out how they're at all relevant to this discussion.)

GreNME
8th July 2008, 01:07 PM
The use of lethal polonium "is evidence of state involvement", the sources said. After all, it is not a substance you can pick up at a department store.

This is a misleading statement. No, I couldn't pick it up in a department store, but I could definitely get hold of some if I went to several photography stores. In fact, professional photographers often carry around at least trace amounts of polonium.

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Polonium210_present_in_antistatic_dust_brush_news_ 102468.html
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pertab/Po.html
http://www.3rd1000.com/elements/oxyfam.htm

SDC
8th July 2008, 01:10 PM
How does a non-native become an actual UK citizen... Or is it UK subject? Don't worry, I don't plan to apply, just curious. Regardless, I thought Litvinenko was just a legal resident (whatever is the UK status).

I doubt whether there is much of a distinction between "rogue" and "official" in the Russian apparatus, but in saying that I'm just talking off the top of my head.

And yes, Bush's statement about trusting Putin resonates as an awfully silly thing to say. Ever.

theprestige
8th July 2008, 04:04 PM
And yes, Bush's statement about trusting Putin resonates as an awfully silly thing to say. Ever.
But what does it have to do with this thread? Are you claiming that Bush conspired with Putin to assassinate this guy, and presenting silly statements about Putin's integrity as evidence?

Undesired Walrus
8th July 2008, 04:36 PM
How does a non-native become an actual UK citizen... Or is it UK subject? Don't worry, I don't plan to apply, just curious. Regardless, I thought Litvinenko was just a legal resident (whatever is the UK status).


Poor wording, sorry. I meant the danger Litvinenko's radioactive body posed to British citizens.

SDC
8th July 2008, 04:48 PM
But what does it have to do with this thread? Are you claiming that Bush conspired with Putin to assassinate this guy, and presenting silly statements about Putin's integrity as evidence?

No, not at all. That would be silly. I would think the conspiracy involved appears to be the Russian apparatus' continued willingness to kill its foes in good old cold war ways. Maybe that isn't a conspiracy as such.

Big Les
9th July 2008, 03:14 AM
Poor wording, sorry. I meant the danger Litvinenko's radioactive body posed to British citizens.

Which would have been negligible, surely? Unless they ate him.