World wide flood proof.

[Kopji]

What purpose did flooding the entire world achieve?

[Cactus Wren]

Ridding the world of evil and wrongdoing.

And we can all see how well it worked.

[RandFan]

What purpose did flooding the entire world achieve?Oh what a show. Can you just imagine all of the babies and children trying to escape while their mothers watched in horror.

Of course, god could have snapped his fingers and vaporized everyone but where's the fun in that? Ask BTK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTK_killer), he'll tell you.

[Toke]

Because in the real world, people don't like to come out and admit that they don't actually have any good evidence for their beliefs. So, they cherry pick bits and pieces of evidence that they think support the beliefs that they really hold strictly for religious reasons.

Ok, that fit with the leap of faith bit.
All that leaping is exausting, so you find some pseudoscience to rest on.

[devnull]

I just cant believe that its 2008 and we're still talking about such nonsense.

[edge]

Ridding the world of evil and wrongdoing.

And we can all see how well it worked.

It will be the same as in Noah's time.

Yes I finally misspelled something darn it.
Notice I never said anything about a skeptic doing the same in this very post here.
Well at least till now.
It's dark here, as I have to get up early to work and dredge for gold the rest of the day.

For me it's just another job, but physically it's one of the toughest.


Because in the real world, people don't like to come out and admit that they don't actually have any good evidence for their beliefs. So, they cherry pick bits and pieces of evidence that they think support the beliefs that they really hold strictly for religious reasons.

I think the videos I posted are pretty good evidence.
I believe the last 15,000 years are represented.

Vaporization is reserved for the end of times.

[Tricky]

It will be the same as in Noah's time.
What, imaginary?

It's dark here, as I have to get up early to work and dredge for gold the rest of the day.

For me it's just another job, but physically it's one of the toughest.
You should have paid attention in school. Then you might have a job now that didn't involve such physical labor. Still I hope you will be all right. It is sad that you have to scratch out a living. It would be so much easier if dowsing worked.

I think the videos I posted are pretty good evidence.
And Star Trek is pretty good evidence of the planet Vulcan.

Vaporization is reserved for the end of times.
Really? Time is going to end? I guess that puts the kabosh on eternity.

[skeptical]

I just cant believe that its 2008 and we're still talking about such nonsense.

My guess is our children's children's children will still be talking about it. Perhaps in another 200 to 300 years the "Jesus is coming back" meme will eventually start to wear thin for even the most devout, but I doubt it.

[RandFan]

Vaporization is reserved for the end of times. How unfortunate for the victims of the flood. :mad:

[Elizabeth I]

Nominated for pith:

Ok, that fit with the leap of faith bit.
All that leaping is exausting, so you find some pseudoscience to rest on.

[Toke]

Pith ?
Please translate to danish, or use longer words.:o

[Madalch]

Pith is the white stuff you find between the orange and its peel.

Also short for pithiness.

[Elizabeth I]

Pith ?
Please translate to danish, or use longer words.:o

But...but...but I don't KNOW any Danish! :cry1 (not even "hello," "goodbye," "please," or "thank you," now that I come to think of it, which is very odd.)

Pith is the art of packing a lot of meaning into very few words. To say, "that was certainly a pithy remark," is a compliment.

[Silentknight]

Vaporization is reserved for the end of times.
I'm glad your beliefs give you so much to look forward to in life.

[RandFan]

But...but...but I don't KNOW any Danish! I do. And they know me. Intimately. I love Danish.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3059/danishthumblx2.jpg

[SezMe]

edge, if I understand you correctly, there was the Earth somewhat like we know it, then there was a global flood, but when the flood waters receded, god has to perform miracles to get, things back to normal like creating trees per your example.

If that is the case, why did god screw around with his silly flood? Once he decided Noah and his family were the only ones worth a hoot, why not put them in his pocket and then just recreate a nice new pristine world then put them back down. What's with all the flood nonsense? It's superfulous and beneath your mighty god.

The only reason I can think of for all the watery stuff is to confuse the hell out of Tricky and his woeful geologist crowd.

Really, edge, why bother with a flood?

[Toke]

Thanks Elizabeth :blush:

[edge]

Well SezMe I really don't know except to test Noah's faith.
Heck he may have stuck the ark and all in his pocket.
What I do know is that if the event occurred it had to be about 12,000 years ago.
There is evidence to support that event which caused a sudden end to the last ice age.
The comet theory is the only thing that could have disrupted the whole planet.
As far as I know the oldest trees date back to that time also.
For me I see other things that proves Gods working in the world, so for me I know there is more to it, I wish I had the funding to look at all the places that might hold more evidence in the world, and I might get to examine western Colorado soon any way.

Tricky says:
You should have paid attention in school. Then you might have a job now that didn't involve such physical labor. Still I hope you will be all right. It is sad that you have to scratch out a living. It would be so much easier if dowsing worked.

It's hard work to mine but it's also lots of fun, it can be rewarding and especially at today’s prices, I'll make a video of us, it's being out on the river or creek and in nature that’s also rewarding. The peace the quite and the gold make for a good day, away from everything that’s stressful.
The scenery is stunning.
All my dreams are being fulfilled, my next thing is to go back to collage, I haven’t made up my mind where yet though.

Wars, wars and the rumors of wars has killed the housing market, so right now my trade is on hold, so I am in the right place at the right time therefore I have no regrets.
Heck I’m having fun and the main man is taking care of me pretty good.

[Tricky]

What I do know is that if the event occurred it had to be about 12,000 years ago.
Closer to 20,000. Still far too long for most creationists models of the age of man.

There is evidence to support that event which caused a sudden end to the last ice age.
What evidence do you have that the ice age ended suddenly?

The comet theory is the only thing that could have disrupted the whole planet.
That is not just incorrect, but the opposite of correct. A comet would be more likely to bring on an ice age by putting so much dust and vapor in the air that it blocked out the sun's rays.

As far as I know the oldest trees date back to that time also.
Again, horribly incorrect. The oldest living tree is at most 8,000 years old. But there is plenty of evidence that trees have survive continuously since they first appeared on earth. There is no record of an event that killed all the trees on earth.

For me I see other things that proves Gods working in the world, so for me I know there is more to it, I wish I had the funding to look at all the places that might hold more evidence in the world, and I might get to examine western Colorado soon any way.
Why would you bother? You will never find anything that you would not force-fit into your creationist model, no matter how badly it was incorrect. You do not appear to be interested in learning, but only in justifying your current beliefs. That is why you make the most outrageously incorrect statement, people show you where you are incorrect, and you later make the same exact incorrect statements.

This is not the behavior of someone who is interested in truth.

[RandFan]

Well SezMe I really don't know except to test Noah's faith. Because that was ever so important. Nonsense. Causing suffering on such a grand scale just to "test" Noah simply doesn't make sense. It's kinda like killing a guy's entire family to "test" that person... oh wait, god did that too.

Come on. You reduce god to a charicature and describe behaviors in direct conflict with your defnition of him. You strain to hold on to your view.

What I do know is that if the event occurred it had to be about 12,000 years ago. As plausible as the earth being flat. As plausible as Geocentrism. Both of which are believed to this day.

[Elizabeth I]

I do. And they know me. Intimately. I love Danish.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3059/danishthumblx2.jpg

What, no cream cheese? What's the point of a Danish without cream cheese?

[Toke]

Odd, we call it wienerbrød, I don´t know what it is called in Austria.
But ok them austrians are strange, they don´t know how to serve a wienersnitzel.
That is with anjovies, horseradish, and capers on top.

And no, it goes with bitter and coffe, not cream cheese. Sorry :)

[SezMe]

Well SezMe I really don't know except to test Noah's faith.
RandFan responded in #270 with what I would have said, only better. I'd underscore his thought that such nonsense really does demean your god. You make him out to be a petty bully. Who wants to worship that concept?

Really, edge, you were a lot more fun with the dowsing stuff. This god/flood stuff is silly and Tricky is cleaning your clock with every post.

[Freethinker]

This god/flood stuff is silly and Tricky is cleaning your clock with every post.

Yeah, but Tricky cheated. He educated himself and is using facts in his posts.

[RandFan]

Yeah, but Tricky cheated. He educated himself and is using facts in his posts.:D

[Tricky]

Stop it, you guys. I'm not that educated. I have unimpressive BS (Geology and Biology) from state-colleges. I am terribly ignorant in other fields. You might even say "willfully" since I don't spend a lot of time studying cosmology or quantum mechanics. However, because I am "willfully ignorant" in those fields, I try not to make statements about them that outstrip my knowledge. Besides, there is still much about geology that I don't know. You have to choose how to spend your time.

But earth science is so fascinating, I can't see why anyone wants to study anything else. For example, let's take Edge's hypothesis about the flood being caused by a comet impact.
***
When I first started studying geology, there were numerous theories about the "end of the dinosaurs". Many involved climate change because there were numerous indications that the earth's climate turned much colder at the end of the Cretaceous. But why?

In the early 1980s a theory strongly supported by Walter Alverez proposed that the climate change had been caused by impact from a meteorite or comet. As I mentioned earlier, the sudden change in the opacity of the atmosphere could easily lead to global cooling. The same phenomenon would cause what has been called "nuclear winter", the aftermath of a large nuclear war.

But such an impact couldn't happen without leaving evidence, so Alverez and others began to search for evidence that would support the theory. The breakthrough came in the analysis of meteorite composition. There are certain "rare earth" elements which, as you might expect, are rare at the earth's crust. However, those elements, especially iridium, are much more common in the composition of chondritic or "stony" meteors. They hypothesized that if the meteor had smashed on the earth's surface, they wold spread rare earth elements over much of the earth as they were carried into the upper atmosphere to settle out slowly over a very wide range.

So they took samples from all over the world of the rock at the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary and analyzed their composition. What they found was that a high iridium content was found at that boundary almost worldwide. Not only that, but other things that would be consistent with a big collision such as shocked quartz, tektites and stishovite, all consistent with a meteor impact, in fact, all are found in abundance with known meteor impacts. This site gives a very good basic explanation suitable for people who know little about geology (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/extinction/Asteroid.html). By tracking the abundance, they were able to zero in on the meteor impact location, which turned out to be (most likely) in the area that is now the Yucatan Peninsula. Sure enough, simple coring revealed a buried meteor crater more than a mile deep which, unsurprisingly, occurred almost exactly at the time of the Cretaceous Extinction.

At this time, sea levels, which had been higher than at any time since the Paleozoic, began to recede. Water returned to the atmosphere and to the glaciers. This was far from an instantaneous process and was not even a single event, but many sea-level fluctuations that, on the the average were more recessive (sea-level drop) than transgressive (sea-level rise). Sea level has never since been higher on earth than it was at the end of the Cretaceous, and even then, it did not come anywhere close to covering the whole earth.
If you look at a geology map of the US, you can see a clear edge of the so-called Cretaceous Onlap in tectonically quiet areas of the US, namely the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic coasts. Look at the area numbered 3 on the following map. This edge marks the area where sediments in the Gulf/Atlantic are more-or-less flat, not having been subject to any major mountain building since the Cretaceous.
http://www.geojeff.org/course-materials/physical-geology-lab/lab-7-united-states-geology/us-physiography-color.png


Interestingly, this theory has come about since I started studying geology. It was unheard of when I was studying geology in the 1970s. Because of the tremendous amount of evidence, it is now the dominant theory and has convinced the overwhelming majority of geologists everywhere. Geologists are rational sorts.

The upshot of this is that the end of the Cretaceous was one of the most cataclysmic events that the Earth has ever experienced. It is marked by mass extinctions, climate change, strong, persistent marker beds and an easily recognizable footprint that is seen world-wide. And it still didn't flood the whole world.

What biblical literalists are proposing is an event that occurred much more recently (less than 20,000 years ago versus 65,000,000 years ago) and yet leaves no footprint whatsoever. No mass extinction. No major change in climate. No worldwide marker layers. No nothing. Though it has been proposed for well over a thousand years, this hypothesis still has almost zero acceptance, as compared to near universal acceptance of a theory less than thirty years old. The difference is evidence.

And this is just the "kitchen geology" version, yet it is clear and compelling. If you study geology, you'll see why the biblical global flood hypothesis is almost universally disregarded. It is a joke. For willfully ignorant people to try to support it by cherry-picking geology is laughable. And cryable.

[George152]

My guess is our children's children's children will still be talking about it. Perhaps in another 200 to 300 years the "Jesus is coming back" meme will eventually start to wear thin for even the most devout, but I doubt it.

look at the innumerable 'gods' that have been deserted in favour for the newer, shinier, chromium plated latest 'god'
This particular religion will go the same way.

[SezMe]

Stop it, you guys. I'm not that educated. I have unimpressive BS (Geology and Biology) from state-colleges.
In the land of the blind, the one-eye is king.

I am terribly ignorant in other fields. You might even say "willfully" since I don't spend a lot of time studying cosmology or quantum mechanics. However, because I am "willfully ignorant" in those fields, I try not to make statements about them that outstrip my knowledge.
Well, you seem to have put some effort into Hokulele's funbags. May not make you the Renaissance man but you do exhibit some diversity of interest. :) :)

[Tricky]

Well, you seem to have put some effort into Hokulele's funbags. May not make you the Renaissance man but you do exhibit some diversity of interest. :) :)
(Blush) Well, I am the two-time and defending champion of the JREF College Football Bowl Prediction challenge. Don't ask me about philosophy though. I'm not well Jung.

[Toke]

Egde has achieved something, instead of just suspecting it i now belive in creationists.

[Tricky]

Egde has achieved something, instead of just suspecting it i now belive in creationists.
LOL. Yeah, I know it seems too crazy to be true, but they really do exist!

[GreyICE]

Tricky, I just want to say thank you, that was amazing. Well not just that (I'm not famous for my brevity, after all, just my good looks, razor sharp wit, and humble nobility). But thank you.

I'd also like to add that the Asteroid theory frequently gets lumped in by anti-science crusaders as things science doubted (or at least I've heard it lumped in there). Well yeah, science doubted it. I mean look at what the theory says. A very well sized asteroid (it was neither Tunguska sized, nor 'end all life on the planet' sized) hits and changes the climate, bringing about the end of the dinosaurs? It reads like something from a B-Grade science fiction movie.

Well then they got the evidence. And the evidence was convincing. So convincing, in fact, that it quickly became the dominate theory.

So anyone who says scientists stick on their blinders and don't listen to radical ideas despite the evidence, to them this should be a wakeup call. Science can and does embrace ideas that are, on the face of it, unlikely, if and only if the evidence points that way.

It also underlines Tricky's point. Bring lots of evidence if you have a radical idea.

[Tricky]

Tricky, I just want to say thank you, that was amazing. Well not just that (I'm not famous for my brevity, after all, just my good looks, razor sharp wit, and humble nobility). But thank you.

I'd also like to add that the Asteroid theory frequently gets lumped in by anti-science crusaders as things science doubted (or at least I've heard it lumped in there). Well yeah, science doubted it. I mean look at what the theory says. A very well sized asteroid (it was neither Tunguska sized, nor 'end all life on the planet' sized) hits and changes the climate, bringing about the end of the dinosaurs? It reads like something from a B-Grade science fiction movie.

Well then they got the evidence. And the evidence was convincing. So convincing, in fact, that it quickly became the dominate theory.

So anyone who says scientists stick on their blinders and don't listen to radical ideas despite the evidence, to them this should be a wakeup call. Science can and does embrace ideas that are, on the face of it, unlikely, if and only if the evidence points that way.

It also underlines Tricky's point. Bring lots of evidence if you have a radical idea.
Thank you GreyIce (and you too, Jackalgirl!) You are both models of perspicacity.

And really, you're my target audience. I do not expect Edge to reconsider his view of the history of the world. That would take a miracle almost as big as any in Genesis.