Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death' [Archive]

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MaGZ

13th July 2008, 04:50 AM

Lensman

13th July 2008, 08:04 AM

Why do you think it's impossible to inject a fluid into someone's heart?

Or to operate on someone with anesthesia? Many years ago, operations were routinely performed sans anesthetics - because they hadn't yet been invented.

Surgeons were famed for the speed with which they could amputate a limb to reduce the effects of post operative shock - they had no trouble removing a leg or arm in just a few seconds.

applecorped

13th July 2008, 08:45 AM

http://remember.org/educate/medexp.html

Magz, what is your opinion?

moon1969

13th July 2008, 02:07 PM

So what do you think about Josef Mengele?

~enigma~

13th July 2008, 02:51 PM

Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

Cl1mh4224rd

13th July 2008, 04:06 PM

Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

I'm guessing the usual Holocaust denial. MaGZ seems to be implying that Aribert "Dr. Death" Heim didn't actually do the things he's been accused of doing, which means there's some sort of conspiracy to sully this good doctor's name.

* Cl1mh4224rd spits.

fullflavormenthol

13th July 2008, 04:44 PM

Well the major flaw in the Holocaust Denier's argument is the fact that the Nazis kept records of what they did, and we know what happened because they recorded all the gory details.

~enigma~

13th July 2008, 04:46 PM

I'm guessing the usual Holocaust denial. MaGZ seems to be implying that Aribert "Dr. Death" Heim didn't actually do the things he's been accused of doing, which means there's some sort of conspiracy to sully this good doctor's name.

* Cl1mh4224rd;3857999 spits.
So he is a bad holocaust denier pussyfooting around his point. Bet the rest of his Aryan nation buddies call him a wimp...

fuelair

13th July 2008, 06:41 PM

Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080711/twl-chile-nazi-warcrimes-4bdc673.html

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?WWII Japanese did such - Russians actually tried the slime. Found out two weeks ago the us only did that to the Nazis - took in the Japanese doctors who did that and more.

US saved the Japanese according to appropriate reports because the US wanted the information on diseases uncontrolled and conditions that could affect soldiers in the field - uncontrolled though the US would never itself do that type of experiment. I'll leave unsaid (but I bet it's worse than whatever you think it is) what I think should have been done to both the Japanese and the nazis who did these things.

chillzero

15th July 2008, 04:16 AM

Off topic posts removed, and thread moved to Social Issues, as there is no CT under discussion.

Edit - returned to CT after discussion. Holocaust denial is a CT.

MG1962

15th July 2008, 04:31 AM

The sad part was some of the lines of research they did was actually extremely useful, the horror was they took the experiments well beyond the ability of a human to survive....just too see what would happen

Sword_Of_Truth

15th July 2008, 12:42 PM

Nazi hunters one step closer to finding 'Dr Death'

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20080711/twl-chile-nazi-warcrimes-4bdc673.html

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?

Why are people so gullible? Where is the skepticism?

My last post got sent to AAH so I'm going to reword it in a manner that hopefully the mods will accept.

You've made it quite clear that you dislike jews and feel that they should not receive the same rights as everyone else in our society.

Why do you feel then, that someone disliking them to the point of doing violence to them is so unbelievable?

MaGZ

15th July 2008, 12:47 PM

Someone want to tell me what the CT is please.

I posted this in current events since it was a recent news story; the moderators move it here. Ask them.

~enigma~

15th July 2008, 12:51 PM

I posted this in current events since it was a recent news story; the moderators move it here. Ask them.
No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

MaGZ

15th July 2008, 12:53 PM

Well the major flaw in the Holocaust Denier's argument is the fact that the Nazis kept records of what they did, and we know what happened because they recorded all the gory details.

If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims.

Safe-Keeper

15th July 2008, 12:54 PM

The sad part was some of the lines of research they did was actually extremely usefulActually, yes. For example, they did some horrific experiments in which they immersed people in ice-cold water until they were close to freezing to death - or actually died. The knowledge they gained from this was actually put to use on the East Front, and may have saved soldiers' lives. Admittedly "bad guys'" lives, but still.

This of course doesn't excuse it, though.

I find these stories hard to believe: experiments on patients without anesthesia and injecting gasoline directly into their hearts?So in other words, you're no different from the other conspiracy theorists who all dismiss real-life events because they're too big for their minds to handle.

I don't believe that a small team of 29 operatives could penetrate into the US, evade detection by the FBI, and dodge the US military's net of AAA, Surface-to-Air missiles and jet fighters to slaughter 3000 innocents by taking down a major Manhattan landmark and damage the Pentagon by the use of hijacked airliners.

I don't believe humans, using a crude, primitive vehicle, could leave the Earth's atmosphere, cross the vast distance to the Moon, land safely and disembark their craft, and then return to orbit and cross the distance again, for then to land safely on Earth.

I can't comprehend that Elvis Presley, who was so much more than an ordinary human being, could actually have died on the toilet from an overdose like some backwater slum kid. It is far more likely that he went into hiding for some obscure reason.

And so on and so forth. The event is too big for you to handle, so you readily accept the alternative explanation, especially if it gives you a pat on the back by casting you in a good light as the man who found the truth - and portrays your enemies in an unfavorable light.

If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims. He calls your claim that the Holocaust didn't happen a conspiracy theory, so he must doubt the Holocaust happened?

MagZ, I don't know how things work in Holocaustdenierburg, but around here we don't call statements conspiracy theories if we believe them to be true

MaGZ

15th July 2008, 01:10 PM

No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

I did not post it under Conspiracy Theories. I posted it under Current Events and got a warning from the moderators and a notice it was being move to Conspiracy Theories. A day or so later the moderator said it was being moved back to Current Events and then back here?

?????

Why not move it to History?

chillzero

15th July 2008, 01:10 PM

No you posted it here on 7/13. CZ moved it and then brought it back this morning. Don't you know what your doing?

Take any further discussion to Forum Mgt please.
A different mod had previously moved it to CT from social issues. I felt it was a social issue, however it's more usual for holocaust denial threads to be placed in CT so I undid my action that had reversed another mod's once I was aware.

Darat

15th July 2008, 01:18 PM

If all of this is true then this thread should be listed under History. Since it is listed under Conspiracy Theories perhaps the moderator is also skeptical about the article’s claims.

As Admin:

I can assure you that not one of the JREF Moderating Team shares your revolting and sickening bigotry that leads you to hold such uncivilised views about other human beings.

As a general note this thread is in this section as the opening post was obviously nothing more than an attempt by MaGZ to spread his or her unsupportable fantasy of "Holocaust denial" and that denial is of course nothing more than a conspiracy theory, one usually arising from a rabid hatred of people who happen to be of the Jewish religion.

(Please note any further comments regarding the moderating of this Forum should be made in the the correct section i.e. Forum Management.)

Drudgewire

15th July 2008, 01:32 PM

Off topic posts removed

Sorry 'bout that. :o

After volatile and I had been going at it tooth and nail in the gun thread, it was nice to have a little friendly fun with each other... and if there was any thread it seemed harmless enough, it would be an otherwise disgusting Holocaust denial one.

I mean obviously it was going to wind up in AAH, but it was fun while it lasted and hope it didn't put too much of a strain on the fine mod team here. :)

~enigma~

15th July 2008, 02:01 PM

I did not post it under Conspiracy Theories. I posted it under Current Events and got a warning from the moderators and a notice it was being move to Conspiracy Theories. A day or so later the moderator said it was being moved back to Current Events and then back here?

?????

Why not move it to History?
Holocaust denial to history????

How about they make a subforum called idiocy and put it there...

~enigma~

15th July 2008, 02:04 PM

Take any further discussion to Forum Mgt please.
A different mod had previously moved it to CT from social issues. I felt it was a social issue, however it's more usual for holocaust denial threads to be placed in CT so I undid my action that had reversed another mod's once I was aware.
Was totally unaware. All I know is this thread just popped up 7/13 with no replies. In hindsight, it was better off that way.

MG1962

15th July 2008, 02:11 PM

Actually, yes. For example, they did some horrific experiments in which they immersed people in ice-cold water until they were close to freezing to death - or actually died. The knowledge they gained from this was actually put to use on the East Front, and may have saved soldiers' lives. Admittedly "bad guys'" lives, but still.

This of course doesn't excuse it, though.

And that was my point - the tests they ran on surviving in high altitude was ground breaking and used by the US and others after the war to find ways to equip pilots.

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

~enigma~

15th July 2008, 02:20 PM

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil
So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

Kthulhut Fhtagn

15th July 2008, 02:26 PM

Why should I be skeptical of it? It's not like anyone has ever given me reason to be skeptical of Dr. Death's wrong-doings.

GreNME

15th July 2008, 03:38 PM

volatile

16th July 2008, 04:27 AM

Sorry 'bout that. :o

After volatile and I had been going at it tooth and nail in the gun thread, it was nice to have a little friendly fun with each other... and if there was any thread it seemed harmless enough, it would be an otherwise disgusting Holocaust denial one.

I mean obviously it was going to wind up in AAH, but it was fun while it lasted and hope it didn't put too much of a strain on the fine mod team here. :)

Seconded. My apologies.

You're a fun guy, Drudge. I'm sure I'd like a beer with you. You're just a little over-fond of dangerous weapons for my liking, that's all... :D

Drudgewire

16th July 2008, 04:40 AM

Seconded. My apologies.

You're a fun guy, Drudge. I'm sure I'd like a beer with you. You're just a little over-fond of dangerous weapons for my liking, that's all... :D

1st one is on me. :)

jaydeehess

16th July 2008, 09:29 AM

The Nazi's were good at recording what they did so we know a great deal about what they did. Stalin's Russia was much the same. There are detailed records of who was shipped to the Gulag's. One docuement lists the exact number of ethnic Koreans he sent to the north to work IIRC on the trans-Russian railroad as slave labour. (exact number escapes me, it was over 170,000)

Fact is that Stalin was the twentieth century's first brutal dictator and the excesses of Nazi Germany or the Imperial Japanese were learned from the example that Stalin set. The later two were just more dedicated to exterminating their perceived enemies. Stalin wanted the labour of slaves and who better than any non-Russian that he could round up to do it?

Sword_Of_Truth

16th July 2008, 01:01 PM

Fact is that Stalin was the twentieth century's first brutal dictator and the excesses of Nazi Germany or the Imperial Japanese were learned from the example that Stalin set. The later two were just more dedicated to exterminating their perceived enemies. Stalin wanted the labour of slaves and who better than any non-Russian that he could round up to do it?

The claim that Hitler learned his brutality from Stalin is one I've never heard before. I'm no fan of either Soviet Socialism or Nationalist Socialism so it makes little difference to me, but if you have a source for this I'd like to see it.

MG1962

16th July 2008, 02:00 PM

So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

My original post said 'Some' lines of research, not all. There is a very big difference.

Loss Leader

16th July 2008, 02:17 PM

So forced experimental surgery is a good thing?

False dichotomy.

Everything that has happened, led us to where we are today.

~enigma~

16th July 2008, 02:45 PM

My original post said 'Some' lines of research, not all. There is a very big difference.
You said The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evilWhich means had they ended the experiments before human tolerance waned, they were good. Sorry, it's only in Star Trek where the ends justify the means.

~enigma~

16th July 2008, 02:46 PM

False dichotomy.

Everything that has happened, led us to where we are today.
Don't know if you read what I was responding too...

jaydeehess

16th July 2008, 03:34 PM

The claim that Hitler learned his brutality from Stalin is one I've never heard before. I'm no fan of either Soviet Socialism or Nationalist Socialism so it makes little difference to me, but if you have a source for this I'd like to see it.

Perhaps not 'learned' as in Stalin sat down and conversed with Hitler on the fine points of ethnic cleansing but more along the lines of Hitler knowing that it was being done in Russia.

My source was a series on PBS titled , IIRC, "World of War" Very interesting watch and fairly detailed. I had not known for instance , that in the 1930's Jews were more integrated into German society than they were in any other European country. Something like half of all marriages where at least one partner was Jewish were mixed religion marriages. He makes the point that Judaism in Germany was in danger of fading away on its own when Hitler came to power.

As to the brutal oppression part, Stalin had years head start on both the Germans and the Japanese.

I will have to try and catch it again. I believe that it is in several parts. My wife absolutly hates such docuementaries though so I get to watch them a bit at a time:D

jaydeehess

16th July 2008, 03:39 PM

And that was my point - the tests they ran on surviving in high altitude was ground breaking and used by the US and others after the war to find ways to equip pilots.

The fact they kept the experiments going well beyond any human tollerence was the true evil

Well, that and the fact that the experimentees were not volunteers but captives being tortured to death to see at what point that death happens.