A Mason speaks out against the constant slander by CTists

[1337m4n]

http://www.cross-x.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1593925

Post #5. It seems that real Masons are finally getting tired of being accused of everything from controlling the banks to altering the weather.

[fullflavormenthol]

It is so sad that people can convince themselves to see sinister symbolism in everything around them.

[Gurdur]

fnord.

[fitzgibbon]

http://www.cross-x.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1593925

Post #5. It seems that real Masons are finally getting tired of being accused of everything from controlling the banks to altering the weather.

Well, it is more than a little tiresome when those with an agenda keep rehashing the same tripe again and again and again even though it's been debunked again and again and again. Sorta like the 9/11 'Truthers'; cockroaches of a kind that no amount of exposure to truth and light will prevent from trying to suck-in the unwary to their vortex of woo.

[dudalb]

The Masons are a distractions.
It's the Stonecutters we have to worry about......

[Chaos]

The Masons are a distractions.
It's the Stonecutters we have to worry about......

No they ain´t, silly. Everybody who can add 2 and 2 (without getting "5" as a result) knows that the Stonecutters are merely a front for the Fraternal Order of Milkmaids.

[Cuddles]

No they ain´t, silly. Everybody who can add 2 and 2 (without getting "5" as a result) knows that the Stonecutters are merely a front for the Fraternal Order of Milkmaids.

That's just what they want you to think. Obviously the FOM are merely tools of the Milk Marketing Board.

[cgallaga]

How can anyone go fourth in the world, with eyes wide opened, and not notice the cows?

[ryanebelhar]

My best friend is a mason. I always make fun of him because he does such a bad job keeping it a secret.

[Chaos]

That's just what they want you to think. Obviously the FOM are merely tools of the Milk Marketing Board.

Bah! That´s just disinformation propagated by the FOM in order to hide their existence. But I´m on to them nonetheless.

[Jontg]

I'm seriously considering becoming a Freemason and getting a job in the NSA. Just so I can flash a badge and scare the pants off the next loon who tries to rally my campus against the secret masters.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

The Masons are a distractions.
It's the Stonecutters we have to worry about......

Are you mad? Just read this confession!



Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do! We do

[Minadin]

I liked this quote from 'Dan' from page 2 of the linked thread:

Also also, "enlightened," in the Western tradition, means "able to use one's own powers of reason without outside guidance." That's from Kant. If we believed you despite your inability to defend your ideas against even the simplest of cross-examination questions, we would not be enlightened. The enlightened person is forced to reject your idea because you are unable to defend it. You're asking us to believe in counter-intuititive dogma for which you have presented exactly zero evidence. Plus, from the outset you make some absolutely ridiculous claims.

We could say exactly that to some of the woo-peddlers here and it would be just as apt.

[TinfoilCat]

I was searching Yahoo Answers (Even though it isn't the best place to look) for an answer to why people believe freemasonry is evil. One of the replies were something of the lines of "My uncle was a a 50th degree mason and he practiced druid stuff and he even showed me blah blah blah." Is it even possible to reach such a rank?

[fitzgibbon]

No, at least not in what's known as regular Freemasonry (which is what most people are referring to when the speak about Masons). There's 3 degrees in Blue or Craft Lodge (Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master) and then there's two side rites: Scottish Rite and York Rite. The York Rite has 14 additional degrees and Scottish 33. For the most part, the highest anyone in Scottish Rite gets is 32nd degree as the 33rd is an honourary one.

HTH
Fitz

[TinfoilCat]

No, at least not in what's known as regular Freemasonry (which is what most people are referring to when the speak about Masons). There's 3 degrees in Blue or Craft Lodge (Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master) and then there's two side rites: Scottish Rite and York Rite. The York Rite has 14 additional degrees and Scottish 33. For the most part, the highest anyone in Scottish Rite gets is 32nd degree as the 33rd is an honourary one.

HTH
Fitz

Thanks for the information, it was very helpful. The thing I really don't understand is why someone would blatantly lie (If he/she is actually lying) about something like that. What would he/she possibly gain? :confused:

[dudalb]

I remember the huge fuss we had when it turned out that Ron Paul was a Mason,and how many of his followers were in denial.
The Irony is that although I hold many things against Ron Paul , being a Freemason is not one of them. Being a Mason is about as sinister as being a member of a Bowling league.

[fitzgibbon]

Thanks for the information, it was very helpful. The thing I really don't understand is why someone would blatantly lie (If he/she is actually lying) about something like that. What would he/she possibly gain? :confused:

Well, with Yahoo Answers, he'd get a point for every answer he posts, regardless of how wacked-out it is. Plus there are people in this world who just have a hate on for Freemasonry even though they haven't a clue as to what actually goes on in-Lodge. To be honest, some of the more wacked-out kind of world-controlling type of lies make it seem dangerously attractive. Maybe Masons should stop trying to deny the lies. :D

[TinfoilCat]

Maybe Masons should stop trying to deny the lies.

Then it wouldn't be a conspiracy theory and our lives will be pointless. :D

[angelsaramark]

Do all skeptics just support what comes across the television? I can't prove / disprove any major conspiracy (JFK, etc), but it stands to reason that any documents, expert testimonies, etc., associated with said conspiracy would also be falsified.

I should think that a skeptic questions everything, no matter what. There's an old saying, "Believe none of what you read and half of what you see." I think that's the job of a skeptic. After working for a major chemical company, I have no faith in human nature as to self-damaging truth.

[JonathanClement]

How can anyone go fourth in the world, with eyes wide opened, and not notice the cows?

NO! IT'S THE PENGUINS! The cows are just disinformation! The cows are a lie! It's the penguins! Always watching us! Always hiding in barrels and rocks and bushes! EVERYWHERE! *Shifty eyes*

[dudalb]

NO! IT'S THE PENGUINS! The cows are just disinformation! The cows are a lie! It's the penguins! Always watching us! Always hiding in barrels and rocks and bushes! EVERYWHERE! *Shifty eyes*



"You listened to the Penguins? THE PENGUINS ARE PSYCHOS"!

From "Madasgascar".

[Elizabeth I]

It's TOE THE LINE, people, TOE THE LINE. Meaning to stand with your toes exactly on a line [whether real or imaginary] as if someone had told you to do so.

"Tow the line" would mean to drag it along, and what in the world would that have to do with conforming to a dogma?

[Hokulele]

It's TOE THE LINE, people, TOE THE LINE. Meaning to stand with your toes exactly on a line [whether real or imaginary] as if someone had told you to do so.

"Tow the line" would mean to drag it along, and what in the world would that have to do with conforming to a dogma?


Yes, towing the line would be the definition of trolling.


Wait a minute . . .

[CptColumbo]

Do all skeptics just support what comes across the television? I can't prove / disprove any major conspiracy (JFK, etc), but it stands to reason that any documents, expert testimonies, etc., associated with said conspiracy would also be falsified.

I should think that a skeptic questions everything, no matter what. There's an old saying, "Believe none of what you read and half of what you see." I think that's the job of a skeptic. After working for a major chemical company, I have no faith in human nature as to self-damaging truth.There is a difference between being skeptical and being cynical. "If your mother says she loves you, check it out."

[CptColumbo]

I was searching Yahoo Answers (Even though it isn't the best place to look) for an answer to why people believe freemasonry is evil. One of the replies were something of the lines of "My uncle was a a 50th degree mason and he practiced druid stuff and he even showed me blah blah blah." Is it even possible to reach such a rank?Ask him what color hat he wore.

[dudalb]

Do all skeptics just support what comes across the television? I can't prove / disprove any major conspiracy (JFK, etc), but it stands to reason that any documents, expert testimonies, etc., associated with said conspiracy would also be falsified.

I should think that a skeptic questions everything, no matter what. There's an old saying, "Believe none of what you read and half of what you see." I think that's the job of a skeptic. After working for a major chemical company, I have no faith in human nature as to self-damaging truth.


I don't think Skepticism means what you think it means.

[TinfoilCat]

Do all skeptics just support what comes across the television? I can't prove / disprove any major conspiracy (JFK, etc), but it stands to reason that any documents, expert testimonies, etc., associated with said conspiracy would also be falsified.

I should think that a skeptic questions everything, no matter what. There's an old saying, "Believe none of what you read and half of what you see." I think that's the job of a skeptic. After working for a major chemical company, I have no faith in human nature as to self-damaging truth.

I'm a skeptic, yet I believe in some meager conspiracies, such as a government official being bribed by companies (which is extremely possible) and I am devoted to my religion. I believe that most skeptics only disbelieve in conspiracies if their is a great lack of real evidence supporting them.

[Elizabeth I]

Yes, towing the line would be the definition of trolling.


Wait a minute . . .

Ooohh...

[Old Bob]

Why are mason temples built on ley lines?

[fromdownunder]

Why are mason temples built on ley lines?

I'm going to try for the impossible, and ask you to provide evidence for this. There is no evidence that ley lines even exist outside of people's imaginations.

I would also ask you exactly what you think ley lines are, and ask you to either put up on this or shut up. You are an embarrasment to all normal Australians.

(Although perhaps there is a problem with Masons - I have heard that they use liquids containing DHMO in some of their less formal rituals, and you know how bad that is, as you discovered on another thread)

Norm

[Big Les]

Robert Cooper (http://www.rosslynhoax.com/coopercv.htm) has written a couple of great books that you could say were "speaking out" in defence of Freemasonry in CT terms. His interest is history, not claims about recent events, but it's all part of the same tradition of blame/scapegoating.

[RoboTimbo]

Why are mason temples built on ley lines?

I thought they were Tow Lines (or Toe Lines).

[Lonewulf]

I'd make a conspiracy-oriented joke, but I'm pretty sure we've already heard it all a millionfold over.

I have better things to do. Like pick at my toes.

Which I do now.

[Davidlpf]

No, at least not in what's known as regular Freemasonry (which is what most people are referring to when the speak about Masons). There's 3 degrees in Blue or Craft Lodge (Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft and Master) and then there's two side rites: Scottish Rite and York Rite. The York Rite has 14 additional degrees and Scottish 33. For the most part, the highest anyone in Scottish Rite gets is 32nd degree as the 33rd is an honourary one.

HTH
Fitz
Once you are finished all the degrees in either rite you can become a Shriner.

[dudalb]

Once you are finished all the degrees in either rite you can become a Shriner.


Not any more. A few years ago the Shriners dropped the requirement to complete the Scottish or York Rite degrees; now you just have to be a Master Mason.

[CptColumbo]

Not any more. A few years ago the Shriners dropped the requirement to complete the Scottish or York Rite degrees; now you just have to be a Master Mason.I might be different between Temples. My father was never a Master, but was able to join the Zurrah Temple.

[Old Bob]

I'm going to try for the impossible, and ask you to provide evidence for this. There is no evidence that ley lines even exist outside of people's imaginations.

I would also ask you exactly what you think ley lines are, and ask you to either put up on this or shut up. You are an embarrasment to all normal Australians.

(Although perhaps there is a problem with Masons - I have heard that they use liquids containing DHMO in some of their less formal rituals, and you know how bad that is, as you discovered on another thread)

Norm

If you don't know what a ley line is your the one who needs to learn a bit. Just put it in the search engine if you know how. How come your so angry about things just out of your reach? I'm a embarrasment to what? did you say normal Australians Hmmm. DHMO---- good joke.

[Mashuna]

Why are mason temples built on ley lines?

Well, all masonic temples are built so they form the shape of the dread sigil Odegra. The positioning on the ley lines enables the power of Odegra to infect said lines and propogate around the globe. This poisoning of the ley line's powers is the reason that psi abilities have been suppressed around the globe. It's quite obvious, really.

[Old Bob]

Good one Mashuna, can you please enlighten us on "Dreaded Sigal Odegra" ?

[Alex C]

My granddad was a mason, and the masons paid for most of my grandmothers private care, because he was the lodge leader or something. Point is my granddad was awesome.

[Ysidro]

Good one Mashuna, can you please enlighten us on "Dreaded Sigal Odegra" ?

He can't or won't. If he did THEY would know and do something about it. :eek:

[CptColumbo]

I've only been to three Masonic lodges. The one in Minneapolis is in a store front in the "Uptown" area (which is actually the Soutwest corner of the city) and faces South-East. The one in St. Peter, Minnesota (which is 70 miles west and a little south of the Twin Cities) is also on a store front on the main street (hwy 169) and faces North. The one in Mankato, Minnesota (20 miles further west of St. Peter) actually moved while I was living in town from a building of its own to a shopping mall nearby (taking a space previously occupied by a China Buffet), both faced west.

That "Ley Line" is more of an L shape than a line.

[Old Bob]

I've only been to three Masonic lodges. The one in Minneapolis is in a store front in the "Uptown" area (which is actually the Soutwest corner of the city) and faces South-East. The one in St. Peter, Minnesota (which is 70 miles west and a little south of the Twin Cities) is also on a store front on the main street (hwy 169) and faces North. The one in Mankato, Minnesota (20 miles further west of St. Peter) actually moved while I was living in town from a building of its own to a shopping mall nearby (taking a space previously occupied by a China Buffet), both faced west.

That "Ley Line" is more of an L shape than a line.

More than one ley, and often churches(big one's) will place the alter on a junction. The masons seem to be happy to just have the room without windows on a line. Some people can feel them like "some one walked over your grave" feeling. A few of us can see them, they look like a silver fussy beam ( a torch beam in fog) And dowsers can get a strong responce from them. The old straight track by Alfred Watkins ( did I get his name right) was just a bit of the puzzle. Not good to sleep on, the Germans call the houses that leys lines pass through "Kerb houses" meaning cancer houses. Where ever we go, I check for ley lines on masonic lodges and have found all the one's I have stopped at are on leys. From Cooktown to Victoria. Only high ranking masons are told. Mason colours are blue and red. Look at the Aussi flag, the points on the southern cross add up to 33. Four 7 point stars and one 5 point,the original design was 6 points. ("Masons rule the world" said Bart Simson) Must add, the old lodge at Beechworth Vic. is on a junction.

[CptColumbo]

More than one ley, and often churches(big one's) will place the alter on a junction. The masons seem to be happy to just have the room without windows on a line. Some people can feel them like "some one walked over your grave" feeling. A few of us can see them, they look like a silver fussy beam ( a torch beam in fog) And dowsers can get a strong responce from them. The old straight track by Alfred Watkins ( did I get his name right) was just a bit of the puzzle. Not good to sleep on, the Germans call the houses that leys lines pass through "Kerb houses" meaning cancer houses. Where ever we go, I check for ley lines on masonic lodges and have found all the one's I have stopped at are on leys. From Cooktown to Victoria. Only high ranking masons are told. Mason colours are blue and red. Look at the Aussi flag, the points on the southern cross add up to 33. Four 7 point stars and one 5 point,the original design was 6 points. ("Masons rule the world" said Bart Simson) Must add, the old lodge at Beechworth Vic. is on a junction.Claiming that there are many "Ley Lines" certainly fills in the hole in your theory, when it comes to oddly placed lodges. So luckily there was another "Ley Line" or the same one in Mankato that crossed a point less than 200ft away from the original location of the lodge and a empty location in a shopping mall.

[OneShotKi11]

The Masons are a distractions.
It's the Stonecutters we have to worry about......

Oh no you dont! Lets not blame the Stonecutters when we all knows its those God Forsaken NYC Carpenters!

Dam Carpenters Union stealing structural steel work since the beginning of time!
Its time we put a stop to it!

[brodski]

Good one Mashuna, can you please enlighten us on "Dreaded Sigal Odegra" ?

It is also known by the name "M25" a symbol of great power and evil.

[GodisEnergy]

yea mason ,a 33rd degree told me.
they rule the world they invented debunking your all pawns in their sick game

[GreyICE]

I was searching Yahoo Answers (Even though it isn't the best place to look) for an answer to why people believe freemasonry is evil. One of the replies were something of the lines of "My uncle was a a 50th degree mason and he practiced druid stuff and he even showed me blah blah blah." Is it even possible to reach such a rank?

Sounds to me like he got World of Warcraft and Freemasonry mixed up.

"My Uncle is a level 53 Freemason druid on the Scarlet Crusade server."

[Elizabeth I]

More than one ley, and often churches(big one's) will place the alter on a junction. The masons seem to be happy to just have the room without windows on a line. Some people can feel them like "some one walked over your grave" feeling. A few of us can see them, they look like a silver fussy beam ( a torch beam in fog) And dowsers can get a strong responce from them. The old straight track by Alfred Watkins ( did I get his name right) was just a bit of the puzzle. Not good to sleep on, the Germans call the houses that leys lines pass through "Kerb houses" meaning cancer houses. Where ever we go, I check for ley lines on masonic lodges and have found all the one's I have stopped at are on leys. From Cooktown to Victoria. Only high ranking masons are told. Mason colours are blue and red. Look at the Aussi flag, the points on the southern cross add up to 33. Four 7 point stars and one 5 point,the original design was 6 points. ("Masons rule the world" said Bart Simson) Must add, the old lodge at Beechworth Vic. is on a junction.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

And it's a church altar. To "alter" means to change.

[Old Bob]

Sorry about the word "altar" will have to alter my ways. Does anyone think that the present trouble can be blamed on the masons steering the money train? Give them their "dues" they are powerful. Back to the leys, I watched a new Catholic church built about 200m from the old one on the same ley line and a new masonic lodge built about 1k from the old again on another line in the little town of Bright Vic. The two lines ran at roughly right angles. This stuff is hard to explain,but it ties into the g.o.a.t (god of all things)club. The lower level masons spit and splutter over this kind of talk because the cult/club is compartmentized and the higher ones shut up and let them, just like the alphbet soup mobs. Cheers

[LightinDarkness]

More than one ley, and often churches(big one's) will place the alter on a junction. The masons seem to be happy to just have the room without windows on a line.

Ley lines do not exist. What happens is woos look for objects that they are fascinated with and draw straight lines between them and scream "OMG LEY LINE!" The problem is if if the dots are close enough or far enough away from each other I can make a straight line going through any number of things, especially if I claim the ley line has a large width.

Masonic temples are not built on ley lines (they don't exist), they are built where its convenient. They are usually built to ensure that the lodge room can be laid out appropriately (ie, the WM chair in the East, SW in the West, etc.) but even this doesn't always happen depending on what room is used as the lodge when its inside a larger building.

Some people can feel them like "some one walked over your grave" feeling. A few of us can see them, they look like a silver fussy beam ( a torch beam in fog) And dowsers can get a strong responce from them.

Yes, this is called "I want to be special so I claim to see mystical lines that do not exist." These two claims have been tested over and over, even by James Randi himself. When you take two people and ask them to find and map ley lines in a square mile, you end up with 2 maps that never overlap. They are always completely different. Also, a dowser moves because of your hand movement, it cant be used to find anything (this has also been debunked by Randi).

Where ever we go, I check for ley lines on masonic lodges and have found all the one's I have stopped at are on leys. From Cooktown to Victoria.

No, you just want to believe ley lines exist and that masons somehow know about them, so you form a narrative to make it seem plausible to yourself.

Only high ranking masons are told. Mason colours are blue and red. Look at the Aussi flag, the points on the southern cross add up to 33. Four 7 point stars and one 5 point,the original design was 6 points. ("Masons rule the world" said Bart Simson) Must add, the old lodge at Beechworth Vic. is on a junction.

The problem is high ranking masons do not exist, so they aren't around to be told anything. If they did exist, how is it a non-mason knows about them when even "low" freemasons - which is every freemason since no one's ever seen a high ranking one - don't know about them?

There is no such thing as a high ranking mason - its the POINT of the whole "we meet on the level and part on the square" saying. The assumption that higher degree numbers confer rank is woo lunacy as its been debunked time and again. I know a rural farmer who makes $20,000 a year thats a 33rd degree Scottish Rite mason - and he's supposed to be the evil diabolical "high degree" mason?

There are no "mason colors." You see blue in what we call the Blue Lodge because blue symbolizes fidelity, but its not an official color or anything. And using numerology to come up with 33 laughable - if you take enough numbers and divide them and multiply them you can come up with 33 all the time. Doesn't indicate a masonic conspiracy.

You know, you freemasonry woos need to get some new material. The stuff you have now has been debunked for about 20 years. I want something new.

[LightinDarkness]

Does anyone think that the present trouble can be blamed on the masons steering the money train? Give them their "dues" they are powerful.

Your more of a woo than I gave you credit for. As freemasonry spends millions of dollars a DAY on charity and the ONLY money kept is to pay for the buildings we use, how exactly are we going to "steer the money train"? Do you just make up this stuff as you go along?

Back to the leys, I watched a new Catholic church built about 200m from the old one on the same ley line and a new masonic lodge built about 1k from the old again on another line in the little town of Bright Vic. The two lines ran at roughly right angles.

How nice, whenever more buildings pop up you just claim that there are even more ley lines. They don't exist. Buildings are built for other reason based in reality, like you know, where its cheapest. :eek:

This stuff is hard to explain,but it ties into the g.o.a.t (god of all things)club. The lower level masons spit and splutter over this kind of talk because the cult/club is compartmentized and the higher ones shut up and let them, just like the alphbet soup mobs. Cheers

If your going to buy into anti-masonic lunacy at least learn the acronyms. Its not GOAT - roflmao - its GAOTU (Grand Architect of the Universe). As I previously debunked, there are no low or high level masons except in your fantasy imagination. Its your way of justifying how no one has ever seen your high level powerful masons, because they don't exist but your in denial about that.

Freemasonry isnt compartmentalized, thats just more conspiracy woo. You, sir, are nuts.

[angelsaramark]

Neither side, in most cases, has any basis for any conclusions about 911, JFK or any of the major possible conspiracies. Any information released about either subject goes through a filter for public consumption. It's really laughable that people think they have the skinny on these things. Any of it worth reading is classified. I've been around government agencies as a contractor and the prolatariat are on a "need to know" basis of never "need to know."

[Old Bob]

LightinDarkness, me think you protest to much. Are you a 33% (The living Dead) Seeing you know could you explain the mason symbols on the U S A dollar, or is that rubbish also. But I know it may be a problem as you are under a cult death threat. Believe that the ceremony has new members blind folded with a rope around the neck and a sword held at the throat. Is that true? The two mock pillars in front of lodges arn't they symbols of Solomon Jewish temple, named "Booz & Jachin"

[Elizabeth I]

LightinDarkness, me think you protest to much. Are you a 33% (The living Dead) Seeing you know could you explain the mason symbols on the U S A dollar, or is that rubbish also. But I know it may be a problem as you are under a cult death threat. Believe that the ceremony has new members blind folded with a rope around the neck and a sword held at the throat. Is that true? The two mock pillars in front of lodges arn't they symbols of Solomon Jewish temple, named "Booz & Jachin"

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[fullflavormenthol]

You ever wonder where people get these insane notions of Freemasonry from? I mean it isn't hard to debunk this 33rd stuff, but they just keep on going. Oh and I like the whole "under a cult death threat" thing. It reminds me of truthers and other assorted CT'ist who believe that people in the media really "know" what is going on, but won't tell because they will loose their jobs.

33rd Living Dead....:rolleyes:

Sometimes it is better to go to the source, and not read Woo Weekly.

[LightinDarkness]

LightinDarkness, me think you protest to much.

Thats a classical anti-mason woo response - anytime you are debunked, they have to go "OMG WHY ARE YOU SO CONCERNED ABOUT IT IF ITS NOT TRUE" - probably because you are spreading lies, and lies are bad. Its really that simple.

Are you a 33% (The living Dead) Seeing you know could you explain the mason symbols on the U S A dollar, or is that rubbish also.

What is it with this absolute obsession with the 33rd degree? If you had done even a tiny bit of research you would know that the 33rd degree is simply an honor given to those who have done a lot of service to the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite is a side body of freemasonry, is only heavily practiced in the US (and some in Europe). It holds no power or authority over any other branch of freemasonry.

I know the original confusion comes from the fact that anti-masons assume that higher numbers equals authority, but you could quickly find out otherwise if you had bothered to do even 5 minutes of googling. The Grand Master of any state, most of whom are 3rd degree, has far more power and authority than the thousands of 33rd degree freemasons. The master of the lodge, who is also often just a 3rd degree, has authority over all the 33rd degrees in his lodge since THE DEGREE DOES NOT MATTER. The highest degree in freemasonry is 3.

And for the record, I'm a 32nd degree mason and proud of it. But the number means nothing in terms of power or authority.

And yes, the "mason symbols" on the dollar bill are absolute rubbish. Its been debunked by everyone, including the Treasury department.

But I know it may be a problem as you are under a cult death threat.

I am not a member of any cult, although you seem to be a member of the anti-masonry cult. I've also never had any death threats.

Believe that the ceremony has new members blind folded with a rope around the neck and a sword held at the throat. Is that true?

And this is why a little bit of knowledge makes people stupid. If you had, again, done 5 minutes of googling, you would find out why masons are prepared in the way that they are in the blue lodge. Also, my blue lodge's sword has never been held up against me, and its dull enough that even if it was all it would do is send me through tremors of laughter.

The two mock pillars in front of lodges arn't they symbols of Solomon Jewish temple, named "Booz & Jachin"

Where in the world do you get this from? Booz? LOL. Please, do 5 minutes of research before spouting off things you clearly don't know or are making up...

[LightinDarkness]

fullflavor:

My sentiments exactly. Its almost sad when you think about it. The woos spend all their time creating CT about freemasonry when all they have to do is just go read the rituals which anyone can easily find...and they would see immediately that they have no idea what they are talking about.

By the way, where can I purchase my copy of Woo Weekly for research purposes? :) Of course, its probably published by Alex Jones...

[Old Bob]

Lightofdarkness, you are high up same as Obama called I believe "The Great Architect" Congratulations. I want you to know that I don't believe the fairy tale you have spun about the demonic cult. My family has had it's share of masons as most have a spirit so I do know a few facts. Hiram would be proud of you defending the order by any means. Please tell us about the coffin rite how one has to lay in it in the nude? Could that be true, but then as you say I'm nuts.

[LightinDarkness]

Lightofdarkness, you are high up same as Obama called I believe "The Great Architect" Congratulations.

Man you will believe in anything...except for the truth. Not only is Obama not a mason nor has he ever been, but there is no "high up" in masonry.

I want you to know that I don't believe the fairy tale you have spun about the demonic cult.

How cute, here I am being honest with you and you choose to believe lies told to you by people who want to create conspiracy theories. By the way, how is life in the anti-mason cult? I wouldn't know much about cults because I've never been in one.

Freemasonry, not being a religion, can't even qualify as a cult. Beyond that, it has no charismatic leader. It might be helpful to understand the definition of the terms you use before you type them.


My family has had it's share of masons as most have a spirit so I do know a few facts. Hiram would be proud of you defending the order by any means.

You know nothing except what you want to believe. Hiriam, being the center of a mythical allegory morality play, doesn't have an opinion on my telling you the truth about masonry. However, generally speaking people like you are ignored because masons are told that they should not suffer their zeal for the institution for those, who, THROUGH IGNORANCE, may ridicule it. And you, my friend, have got be among the top of the list of the ignorant anti-masons but what you've typed so far.


Please tell us about the coffin rite how one has to lay in it in the nude? Could that be true, but then as you say I'm nuts.

Can you even get your conspiracy theory straight? That entire coffin thing is a rumor about SKULL AND BONES. We are talking about FREEMASONRY. There is no relation, never has been and never will be. Skull and bones is a Yale fraternity that now admit women I believe, regular Freemasonry is a world-wide male-only fraternity.

Yes, you are nuts..and you can't even remember which conspiracy theories apply to freemasonry and which woo theories apply to other organizations it has nothing to do with.

[Old Bob]

Interesting "Freemasonry-Mankind's Death Wish" Open this for a eyebrow lifter.

[fromdownunder]

If you don't know what a ley line is your the one who needs to learn a bit. Just put it in the search engine if you know how. How come your so angry about things just out of your reach? I'm a embarrasment to what? did you say normal Australians Hmmm. DHMO---- good joke.

I asked you to provide evidence that ley lines actually exist, not what they are. I know what they supposedly are, and I see now that you are incapable of providing any evidence that they actually exist. Either stop hiding behind ignorant rhetoric and provide evidence, or go drink some DHMO, since you now appear to know what it actually is.

Norm

[fullflavormenthol]

Interesting "Freemasonry-Mankind's Death Wish" Open this for a eyebrow lifter.
Yeah...evil bankers, and the same anti-masonic bunk that has already been dealt with here. So basically this doesn't help your case, and I probably won't be spending 50 dollars on this book either.

[CptColumbo]

Of the Scottish Rite 33rd degrees that I've known, one was a retired teacher and church organist, one was a tire salesman, one a deputy sheriff, there was a truck driver, and the owner of a steakhouse. Important and good men, but not exactly rulers of the world.

[fullflavormenthol]

You under estimate the real importance of a good steakhouse sir.

[CptColumbo]

You under estimate the real importance of a good steakhouse sir.It is a good steakhouse, with two convenient locations. Roseville, Minnesota and Butte, Montana. He, unfortunately, died in a plane crash in the late 90s (it's a very long story).

[GreyICE]

fullflavor:

My sentiments exactly. Its almost sad when you think about it. The woos spend all their time creating CT about freemasonry when all they have to do is just go read the rituals which anyone can easily find...and they would see immediately that they have no idea what they are talking about.

By the way, where can I purchase my copy of Woo Weekly for research purposes? :) Of course, its probably published by Alex Jones...

http://www.prisonplanet.com/

[Elizabeth I]

Of the Scottish Rite 33rd degrees that I've known, one was a retired teacher and church organist, one was a tire salesman, one a deputy sheriff, there was a truck driver, and the owner of a steakhouse. Important and good men, but not exactly rulers of the world.

You under estimate the real importance of a good steakhouse sir.

Not to forget the truck drivers, those masters of the superhighway. Cf. Roadtoad, for example.

[Old Bob]

Ok I'll come clean, I have "The dissipation of the darkness". The origin of Masonry. "...For there is not anything secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden that shall not be known..." (front page) Now that's a powerful read, so you see not all is just woo that I have said. I am thankful that we are protected by the power of Masons, but appalled by the wars created by them, after all the middle east conflict looks like a continuation of the Crusades to me. PS The book is on loan in case you want it.

[LightinDarkness]

Yes, it is all woo what you've said so far. Just because someone made it up in a book doesn't mean its true. Do your research, because you have no idea what your talking about.

Masons have created no wars, get the facts.

[Old Bob]

Lightindarkness, how many more facts would you like.? Perhaps the preface will do...."Once-more than 250 years ago--there was a copy of this book in English. Perhaps it still exists. But if it does, it is well hidden,carefully guarded by a descendant of the man who stole it from-- and killed-- it's rightful owner. It's rightful owner, however left a widow. And a son. His widow married a close friend of her deceased husband--one of only a handful of men in the entire world who had a copy of the original manuscript, from the English translation had been made. And so, despite the fact that his father's copy had disappeared, the "widow"s son" inherited the manuscript-- and passed it on to his descendants. And then, by a series of coincidences, the chains that bound the secret were broken. The chain of succession was broken when one of the descendants bequeathed the manuscript not to his son's son, but to his daughter's son. The chain of ideology was broken when one of the descendants was converted by his Christian wife. The chain of silence was broken when one of descendants translated the manuscript into French-- and sought other linguists who would translate it and publish it in other languages. And so it went-- from French to Arabic to Spanish to English. The secret association, conceived in the mind of another "widow's son" more than 19 centuries ago, is no longer secret. Was it coincidence? Or the hand of God?" So you see the more you "woo" the more you get. (the book is now on loan again)

[GreyICE]

Lightindarkness, how many more facts would you like.?

When will you be getting around to posting any of those?

[LightinDarkness]

Lightindarkness, how many more facts would you like.?

Well, I'm still waiting for you to provide just one fact. So far - including your most recent ramblings - you've provided 0. Still waiting. Any day now, I'm sure, you'll get around to posting a fact.


Perhaps the preface will do...."Once-more than 250 years ago--there was a copy of this book in English. Perhaps it still exists. But if it does, it is well hidden,carefully guarded by a descendant of the man who stole it from-- and killed-- it's rightful owner. It's rightful owner, however left a widow. And a son. His widow married a close friend of her deceased husband--one of only a handful of men in the entire world who had a copy of the original manuscript, from the English translation had been made. And so, despite the fact that his father's copy had disappeared, the "widow"s son" inherited the manuscript-- and passed it on to his descendants. And then, by a series of coincidences, the chains that bound the secret were broken. The chain of succession was broken when one of the descendants bequeathed the manuscript not to his son's son, but to his daughter's son. The chain of ideology was broken when one of the descendants was converted by his Christian wife. The chain of silence was broken when one of descendants translated the manuscript into French-- and sought other linguists who would translate it and publish it in other languages. And so it went-- from French to Arabic to Spanish to English. The secret association, conceived in the mind of another "widow's son" more than 19 centuries ago, is no longer secret. Was it coincidence? Or the hand of God?" So you see the more you "woo" the more you get. (the book is now on loan again)

I mean no offense here, but you are supremely gullible. You'll believe anything a woo book says. Unfortunately, it would take 2 minutes of research to find out modern freemasorny is less than 300 years old, and claims of it being older than that don't go much past 1,300AD. So your book was written about 12 centuries too soon.

Try again. You've failed in a spectacular way so far.

[Old Bob]

Well, I'm still waiting for you to provide just one fact. So far - including your most recent ramblings - you've provided 0. Still waiting. Any day now, I'm sure, you'll get around to posting a fact.



I mean no offense here, but you are supremely gullible. You'll believe anything a woo book says. Unfortunately, it would take 2 minutes of research to find out modern freemasorny is less than 300 years old, and claims of it being older than that don't go much past 1,300AD. So your book was written about 12 centuries too soon.

Try again. You've failed in a spectacular way so far.

Try harder in your coverup, was all the Templer Knights yesterday? Roslyn Chapel built last week? Hiram Ablud founder,King Agippa. When are you having the wake?

[dudalb]

I mean no offense here, but you are supremely gullible. .
No kidding.



I have ocean front property in Kansas that Old Bob might be interested in.

[LightinDarkness]

Try harder in your coverup, was all the Templer Knights yesterday? Roslyn Chapel built last week? Hiram Ablud founder,King Agippa. When are you having the wake?

And THIS is what happens when your a woo and you believe every single thing you read.

Fact 1) There is no relationship between the Knights Templar and freemasonry. Never has been, never will be.

Fact 2) Roslyn Chapel has no real connection to Freemasonry, that was called the DaVinci Code. Its fiction.

Fact 3) I have no idea who in the world Hiram Abuld or King Agippa are, but I know that they have no connection to freemasonry since I've never ever heard of them.

I suggest you stop smoking whatever your smoking and do some research.

[dudalb]

I might be different between Temples. My father was never a Master, but was able to join the Zurrah Temple.

I think that Temples could make exceptions.
But the requirment to have completed either the York or Scottich Rite degrees is gone from the Shriiners as a whole. Now, at least on paper, only being a Master Mason is required.
Some Masonic lodges have been doing From Sidewalk to Shrine weekends, where you enter as a complete novice on Saturday morning ,but by Sunday Evening you are a Master Mason and a Shriner.

[Elizabeth I]

I have ocean front property in Kansas that Old Bob might be interested in.

Yes, but I have a complete lineage of the Merovingian kings down to the present day, a map to the current location of the Templar treasure, and a key to the spooky vault where it's kept.

:rolleyes:

[fromdownunder]

Yes, but I have a complete lineage of the Merovingian kings down to the present day, a map to the current location of the Templar treasure, and a key to the spooky vault where it's kept.

:rolleyes:

Wrong. Where it was kept is the correct term. You don't really know everything do you? We have assimilated the treasure. Old Bob was getting too close to the secret, and we needed to make sure that he would not tell the world.

Norm

[LightinDarkness]

Some Masonic lodges have been doing From Sidewalk to Shrine weekends, where you enter as a complete novice on Saturday morning ,but by Sunday Evening you are a Master Mason and a Shriner.

Thankfully, they are beginning to do away with this. Any sort of "quick passage" through the degrees has always been almost universally opposed by masons - generally, it was only done because the few who supported it are in the grand lodge/in the associated side order leadership.

I think most of them have stopped now, because as those opposed pointed out, if people don't have to work for their blue lodge degrees it loses value.

But it is fascinating though, anti-masons spend so much time screaming about how masons are controlling the world, when a few years ago you could just walk in and be a mason in a day with almost no work on your part ;)

[Old Bob]

Merovingian Kings, the Spencers come down the line and my mothers side branches off. Dudalb, can you hear the ocean waves from your land? Love a good deal, can I pay in dollars? LightandDarkness, can I come to the next locked door meeting with my bag of marbles? is full moon a good night.

[dudalb]

Merovingian Kings, the Spencers come down the line and my mothers side branches off

I hope Dan Brown rots in hell for helping to spread this kind of nonsense.
Old Bob, you are totally ignorant of history if you buy into that crap.

[Old Bob]

I don't think I'm related to Dan Brown, what that got to do with Genealogy. Is it true that masons have to believe in a higher force not necessarily a christen God.?

[Elizabeth I]

Is it true that masons have to believe in a higher force not necessarily a christen God.?

Why on earth would we christen God? Doesn't he already have a perfectly good name?

[GreyICE]

Why on earth would we christen God? Doesn't he already have a perfectly good name?

Eris would appreciate it if you remember to use the feminine pronoun when referring to her in the future.

[dudalb]

. Is it true that masons have to believe in a higher force not necessarily a christen God.?

Masons require a belief in a Surpreme Being, but that is it. There is no other requirement or teaching. You can be a Christian, a Jew, A Muslim, A Buddhist, or even Bob or The FSM, so long as you believe in a supreme being of some sort.

[fullflavormenthol]

Heck, the Supreme being could even by a vague sense of the goodness and beauty of all living things. From my research it is mainly about being accountable or about more than yourself. Think of it as a traditional humanist ideal.

[Old Bob]

Dudalb.Then would it be ok to worship Satan and still be a Mason.?

[GreyICE]

Dudalb.Then would it be ok to worship Satan and still be a Mason.?
Is Satan a deity? So curious now what flavor of magical thinking is occuring here.

[fitzgibbon]

Dudalb.Then would it be ok to worship Satan and still be a Mason.?

No.

1. Masons have to believe in a Supreme Being. Satan doesn't fit that bill

2. Masons have to believe in a Supreme Being who created the Universe. Satan doesn't fit that bill either.

HTH
Fitz

[mrbaracuda]

Oh please, don't stop now! This freemasons stuff is so intriguing!
I understand that much of Jones' woo, if not all of it, is built on this.

So, I'd like you masons to give me some by you certified links if you don't mind.
Freemason approved so to say! :D

* mrbaracuda does a search

[fromdownunder]

Dudalb.Then would it be ok to worship Satan and still be a Mason.?

Satan is just a bonus prize that comes with believing in a certain deity. It's a bit like the six steak knives you get as an extra with a purchase of a whallamijigit.

"But wait, there's more. We will also send you these six stainless steel steak knives at no extra cost....

Norm

[Old Bob]

What have we established? Masonry is a ancient order a lot older than 300 years as stated Masons worship a higher Deity not God. Masons symbols are woven into our lives. Masons worship the star sirius. Masons are world leaders. Masons have little secret ways of recognizing one another, like handshake(three versions) and visual look (left shoulder right shoulder forehead) Trinity means a lot. Masons believe in reincarnation. numbers are important like 11 s and of course 13, that was the day the French King done many in. In support of them they do regulate our society. But would en it be nice if the knowledge they know was released, like ley lines and what NASA knows.

[fullflavormenthol]

What have we established?

That you know absolutely nothing about Freemasonry, except what is written in books by people who know absolutely nothing about Freemasonry. Which means that you know absolutely nothing about Freemasonry.

0+0=0

Masonry is a ancient order a lot older than 300 years as stated

No. When was this established? Freemasonry was developed sometime in the late 16th to early 17th century. Not entirely ancient.

Masons worship a higher Deity not God.

Again when was this established? If anything they have an ecumenical stance allowing members to worship any god who fits the description of a Grand Architect of the Universe. So that would fit the bill of God. God is a generic title, it is religions that assign specifics to that; Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Braman, etc.

Masons symbols are woven into our lives.

You didn't establish this.

Masons worship the star sirius.

No.

Masons are world leaders.

Some may be, and others are just groundskeepers. Heck many powerful people were also part of college fraternities and sororities. Maybe we should make up lies about them too.

Masons have little secret ways of recognizing one another, like handshake(three versions) and visual look (left shoulder right shoulder forehead)

Oh...me oh my. There it is. A private club has their own handshake. Well there is all the evidence one needs to accuse them of being the super ultra evil rulers of the world. :rolleyes:

Trinity means a lot.

When did you establish this?

Masons believe in reincarnation.

Some do, if they are members of a religion that believes in reincarnation. Freemasonry itself has no policy dealing with such matters as it is outside the scope of their fraternity.

numbers are important like 11 s and of course 13, that was the day the French King done many in.

I think you are not in understanding of what it means to establish something.

In support of them they do regulate our society.

Some might, if that is the position they worked for in their private lives. Others manage fast food restaurants. Again many members of 4-H might go on to work Social Service, which would mean that 4-H could also be considered an evil super secret society.

But would en it be nice if the knowledge they know was released, like ley lines

Psss....ley lines aren't real. Pass it on. There I released to you the secret of ley lines.

and what NASA knows.

Tang is a poor substitute for real orange juice, and was created during WWII for the purpose of supplementing the Vitamin C needs of the troops. Unfortunately it was developed to late in the war, and so it was adopted by NASA. Oh and ley lines don't exist.

[LightinDarkness]

That you know absolutely nothing about Freemasonry, except what is written in books by people who know absolutely nothing about Freemasonry. Which means that you know absolutely nothing about Freemasonry.

Bingo! Right on the money.

By the way, if your not a freemason, you should join :) Then we can all come together and hatch diabolical plots to rule the world and harass OldBob. And if you are, then make sure you come to next weeks meeting when our Reptilian Illuminati overlords will be giving directions on how to hold a good fish fry.

[LightinDarkness]

Just to add...

Masons are world leaders.

Your 0% success rate is quite reliable on these things. WRONG, yet again. There is not 1 single current world leader who is a Mason. If you can find one, I'd love to know about it, since the fraternity always likes pushing famous masons.


Masons have little secret ways of recognizing one another, like handshake(three versions) and visual look (left shoulder right shoulder forehead) Trinity means a lot.

Whats most distressing is that you can't even get your hands on anti-mason propaganda that at least gets the signs and symbols right. There never has been, and never will be, a "masonic visual look." Really, try it on a mason. They will point and laugh at you. And no, trinity means nothing in masonry.


numbers are important like 11 s and of course 13, that was the day the French King done many in.

Poor Bob, he believes so much conspiracy hes getting them mixed up now. the 13 would be the knights templar, Bob, which have no relation to freemasonry. No number - including 11 or 13 - have any particular meaning in freemasonry.

[Old Bob]

Well, this has been a ton of fun, sounds like being a Mason is the same as Sunday school. All the books I have read are totally wrong, web sites too you say. Why do you have a guard on the temple door? My Mason relations told me fairy tales, they are all passed over or I wouldn't dob them. My old friend and work partner said he was ashamed to have been a Mason. It would be nice if the lurkers on this tread could come in to break the stalemate. Sorry you can't take on ley lines officially. I just shake my head.

[fullflavormenthol]

Well, this has been a ton of fun, sounds like being a Mason is the same as Sunday school. All the books I have read are totally wrong, web sites too you say. Why do you have a guard on the temple door? My Mason relations told me fairy tales, they are all passed over or I wouldn't dob them. My old friend and work partner said he was ashamed to have been a Mason. It would be nice if the lurkers on this tread could come in to break the stalemate. Sorry you can't take on ley lines officially. I just shake my head.
Ley lines aren't real. BUT...that is not an issue for this forum. If you want to debate that issue take it to the Paranormal forum and write about it there. Ley lines are just the manifestation of the human need to see patterns in everything, including the location of buildings.

Ley lines are the stuff of fantasy and science-fiction.

[mrbaracuda]

I had a look at the local lodge here and what they do. Turns out they're nice (old farts), trying to rule the world by buying an old tower and turning it into a dormitory which they still manage today. Surplus from the evil tower is used on stipends for very good students. Another thing I saw is they collected 20.000 Euros and spent it on a help hotline for abused women.

Damn those freemasons, being all that evil and stuff!

[gtc]

I had a look at the local lodge here and what they do. Turns out they're nice (old farts), trying to rule the world by buying an old tower and turning it into a dormitory which they still manage today. Surplus from the evil tower is used on stipends for very good students. Another thing I saw is they collected 20.000 Euros and spent it on a help hotline for abused women.

Damn those freemasons, being all that evil and stuff!

Yes but are the old farts, the tower, the students and the women evil?

[mrbaracuda]

Well that's a no-brainer gtc, they're freemasons! Duh! :D
Speaking of women, they even have a lodge for women here.

The AF AM lodges were the accepted ones, right? Or were those the somewhat-bogus ones?

[CptColumbo]

You will also find that many US leaders (and some world leaders) were/are members of:

Cub Scouts
Boy Scouts
Eagle Scouts
Brownies
Girl Scouts
Phi Theta Kappa
National Honor Society
Mickey Mouse Club
Veterans of Foreign Wars
American Legion
Moose Club
Knights of Columbus
Rainbow Foods Frequent Shopper Program
National Rifle Association
American Civil Liberties Union
Amnesty International
Mensa
Starfleet: The International Star Trek Fan Club
National Geographic Society
and
The International Red Cross/Cresent

[mrbaracuda]

Moose Club

Okay, now I am convinced it was a moose job after all!
WqVdESOo6D4

[LightinDarkness]

Well, this has been a ton of fun, sounds like being a Mason is the same as Sunday school.

Ummmm. No. Sunday school is for religious instruction.

All the books I have read are totally wrong, web sites too you say.

I don't say. I know. And yes, this may be shocking to you, but there are lots of wrong things in print and on the web.


Why do you have a guard on the temple door?

Because one of the cornerstones of freemasonry is to do good because its the right thing to do, and do it in secret so that you get no praise for it. Among other things, the guard functions as a way of making sure there can be no doubt that we arrange our good works in secret.

Of course, the guard is usually in his 70s, has a sword that wouldn't cut through butter, and you could really get in if you wanted to. Its actually more symbolic than it is anything else.

My Mason relations told me fairy tales, they are all passed over or I wouldn't dob them.

As gullible as you are, frankly, if I met you in public I doubt you'd listen to anything I told you as truth. As such, its unsurprising that most people enjoy pulling your leg.

My old friend and work partner said he was ashamed to have been a Mason.

Sure he did. I can't tell you how many ex-masons I've met that were never masons to begin with, but like acting like they were because it makes them look important to their friends.

It would be nice if the lurkers on this tread could come in to break the stalemate.

There is no stalemate. You are wrong. Unless you have any other actual evidence based in reality to offer, case closed.

[LightinDarkness]

Well that's a no-brainer gtc, they're freemasons! Duh! :D
Speaking of women, they even have a lodge for women here.

The AF AM lodges were the accepted ones, right? Or were those the somewhat-bogus ones?

In the US, the regular mainstream lodges are:

AFAM - Ancient Free and Accepted Masons
FAM - Free and Accepted Masos
PHA - Prince Hall Affiliated

All regular lodges only admit men. Outside of that, there is innumerable clandestine lodges that admit women only or both men and women. A handful of these are regular except that they admit women only or men and women together. Also, some lodges are PHO (Prince Hall Origin) which are irregular. Also, things get strange in Louisiana with whats regular and whats not, so there may be some I missed not in the list above.

[gtc]

I am a lurker, I know some masons and none of them are evil or ashamed of what they do. I have visited an ex-lodge that was turned into an antique store and most of the original decorations were still visible. An evil conspiracy that had survived for three thousand years would probably be better at covering up.

[mrbaracuda]

Thanks LightinDarkness. :)
Is it normal for an AF AM lodge to be entangled with a clandestine women's lodge?
If I'm not mistaken they seem to have some get-together evenings of both lodges at times and the AF AM one links to the women's lodge on their homepage and features them a little bit.

I would have thought they'd keep away from those a little?!

[burrahobbit]

AFAIK no regular lodge should have any links with irregular lodges(and any lodge that admitted women would be most irregular)

[LightinDarkness]

No problem, glad I could be of help :D

Generally speaking, in the US, it would be EXTREMELY unusual for a AFAM lodge to ever have anything to do with a all-women clandestine lodge. Most regular lodge members treat clandestine and irregular lodges with a high level hostility in my observation.

However, as with all things in freemasonry - there are exceptions. Technically speaking the prohibition with irregular and clandestine lodges is against masonic communications only. This means that regular lodges and their members may not speak about freemasonry nor have formal communications with each other through their officers about freemasonry. Depending on the auspices of the entanglement they may be getting together informally to do something like anonymous charity work, which would be something that would be technically allowed (but not charity work the clandestine lodge could claim they were freemasonry). Such informal events are rare in most jurisdictions but do occur occasionally in areas that have a critical mass of progressive lodges.

But as for the things you cited - that's a very borderline issue. If they meet in the lodge together it would have to be informally with no freemasonry being discussed. And generally speaking they shouldn't be on the AFAM website.

The only way I can think that this might be legitimate is if the AFAM lodge is renting a lodge room to the clandestine lodge. Over the years lodges have looked for ways to bring in money while keeping membership dues low, and doing things that would have previously been considered blasphemous - like renting to a clandestine lodge or renting the hall for a event with alcoholic beverages - has started happening. If the AFAM lodge is renting to the clandestine lodge, then it would be normal for them to put a link to them on their website as they would any group using their building (like a building room schedule). They also might meet at the same time if they have two separate lodge rooms.

[Acleron]

I am a lurker, I know some masons and none of them are evil or ashamed of what they do. I have visited an ex-lodge that was turned into an antique store and most of the original decorations were still visible. An evil conspiracy that had survived for three thousand years would probably be better at covering up.

A local pub has a room that is turned into a temple for lodge meetings. The lodge furniture is just pushed behind a curtain. No secrets there either.

In fact Masonry is not a secret society, just a society that has some secrets. These secrets are certain words and signs. The main point of the words and signs are to show that a Mason is honourable by taking an oath to not disclose those secrets. In fact, Masonry is so not secret that before World War I, there was an annual public march through central London when Masons appeared in their full regalia.

[JoeyDonuts]

Well, it's a well known fact within certain circles that know the truth about the Masons, Old Bob, that ley lines DO in fact exist and are not merely symbolic. They are very real conduits for power, and they don't just go through lodges either. You see, they seem to ascribe to the "hide in plain sight" mentality. But the more people you have, the harder the secret is to keep.

Anyway in 1842, a 33rd degree Mason named P. Artemis Crowley decided to go public with the secret of the ley lines. He was summarily hunted down by the Pinkerton Agency, which as we all know is simply another front for the Lodge. However, the family he divulged the information to on the run from his lodge kept his written confession in a locked chest on the family farm in rural Georgia. 17 years later, the youngest of the family, Allan Chomsky, had a gambling problem and wound up losing the family's chest in a poker game to a Union Soldier, that just happened to be stationed at Fort Sumter. Young Allan had forgotten that the precious parchment was still inside. You can guess what happened after that.

That's right - The United States Civil War of 1860-1865 was fought not over slavery, but over this chest containing the secret of the ley lines. Eventually it found its way back to the family...and to me.

Here is the secret...All the ley lines intersect in a 43 pointed star directly underneath a secret Colorado mountain retreat known only as...The Meadows. Here, the Pentumvirate of the Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds, and (Col. Sanders before he went tits up) meet tri-annually to chart the course of events for the rest of the world.

You've stumbled into a abyss the depth of which you cannot possibly fathom.

You can read more about it in my new book, Crap I Just Made Up and Other Assorted Conspiracy Theories. And no, you can't have that 5 minutes of your life back. Why don't you spend the ones you do have left on something a little more worthwhile than exposing a non-existent conspiracy behind a group of older gentlemen that operate burn hospitals and drive tiny cars?

If you believe everything you read, I was going to recommend you read David Icke, but there's no telling what kind of posts you'd make then.

-Joey Donuts
Negative 65th Degree Plebian