Buy Pirated DVDs to support AJ?

[nicepants]

I woke up this morning to find an e-mail from the "Constitutional TV Network" which said:

"If your[sic] a truther and like music videos, you HAVE to see this"

They are peddling a package of 60 DVDs with 1500 music videos for $200, with $25 of each sale going to Alex Jones.

They claim to be a "licensed video distribution company" who has full distribution rights, but it sure smells funny to me.

[~enigma~]

They claim to be a "licensed video distribution company" who has full distribution rights, but it sure smells funny to me.

Licensed my butt. Guess they mean fair use which really means nothing so if they sell at least one set and it has any Metallica or Dr. Dre...someone is gonna be sued so bad their grandchildren will still be paying the settlement.

ETA - If you still have the email, forward it to the RIAA.

[~enigma~]

Here is their website...

http://www.constitutionaltv.com/

and here is them begging for cash...

http://www.constitutionaltv.com/mb.htm

Anybody think they are a licensed video distributor?

[nicepants]

ETA - If you still have the email, forward it to the RIAA.

Already sent the info to ASCAP & the RIAA.

Here's the page (http://www.constitutionaltv.com/dvd.htm)

[~enigma~]

Already sent the info to ASCAP & the RIAA.

Here's the page (http://www.constitutionaltv.com/dvd.htm)
Hmm...they claim that they are licensed yet they burn DVDs like common pirates...AARGH :)

[Par]

I’ve no idea as the legality. But after a (very cursory) scan over the collection, I noticed that it doesn’t appear to contain anything released after around 1996, which could explain its relative inexpensiveness.

[~enigma~]

I’ve no idea as the legality. But after a (very cursory) scan over the collection, I noticed that it doesn’t appear to contain anything released after around 1996, which could explain its relative inexpensiveness.
Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate. Wonder if the licensing restrictions are so difficult in this country, how difficult would it be for international distribution? This is as illegal as a trillion dollar bill.

[geni]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate. Wonder if the licensing restrictions are so difficult in this country, how difficult would it be for international distribution? This is as illegal as a trillion dollar bill.

A trillion dollar bill wouldn't be illegal.

[~enigma~]

A trillion dollar bill wouldn't be illegal.
If you made it it sure would be...

[Par]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate.


False. Many retail DVDs – especially collections, as opposed to movies – are released as Region 0, and some are even unencrypted. However, as I said, I’ve no idea as the legality. It seems somewhat dubious though, admittedly.

[Par]

Incidentally, the feedback listed at the bottom is taken from this eBay account:

http://myworld.ebay.com/crunkland

He’s been selling the same thing there – for fifteen dollars less!

[~enigma~]

False. Many retail DVDs – especially collections, as opposed to movies – are released as Region 0, and some are even unencrypted. However, as I said, I’ve no idea as the legality. It seems somewhat dubious though, admittedly.
Show the retail collections that are multi region and don't use the pirated bs on ebay...

[~enigma~]

Incidentally, the feedback listed at the bottom is taken from this eBay account:

http://myworld.ebay.com/crunkland

He’s been selling the same thing there – for fifteen dollars less!
That makes it legal?!?!

[Par]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate.False. Many retail DVDs – especially collections, as opposed to movies – are released as Region 0, and some are even unencrypted.Show the retail collections that are multi region and don't use the pirated bs on ebay...


Remember, you said that the “only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate”. This is false. Therefore, you are wrong.

[Par]

Incidentally, the feedback listed at the bottom is taken from this eBay account: http://myworld.ebay.com/crunkland He’s been selling the same thing there – for fifteen dollars less!
That makes it legal?!?!


This is a strawman, and a particularly silly one at that.

[~enigma~]

Remember, you said that the “only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate”. This is false. Therefore, you are wrong.
You'll show me false if and when you can show me a legal retail collection that was PRESSED as a multi-region DVD.

[~enigma~]

This is a strawman, and a particularly silly one at that.
A question is a strawman?!?!?!?!?!?!

Do you know what a strawman argument is?

[Par]

I’ve no idea as the legality. But after a (very cursory) scan over the collection, I noticed that it doesn’t appear to contain anything released after around 1996, which could explain its relative inexpensiveness.False. Many retail DVDs – especially collections, as opposed to movies – are released as Region 0, and some are even unencrypted. However, as I said, I’ve no idea as the legality. It seems somewhat dubious though, admittedly.That makes it legal?!?!
A question is a strawman?!?!?!?!?!?!Do you know what a strawman argument is?


Yes. It’s when you illegitimately ascribe to someone a distorted or fabricated argument. Quite clearly, and for the third time, I am not claiming that this collection is legal. I am saying I do not know.

[~enigma~]

Yes. It’s when you illegitimately ascribe to someone a distorted or fabricated argument. Quite clearly, and for the third time, I am not claiming that this collection is legal. I am saying I do not know.
And once again...a question is not a strawman argument. You are letting your stupid dislike of me make your entire train of thought illogical. Are you going to show me these multi-region legal retail DVDs?

[Par]

And once again...a question is not a strawman argument. You are letting your stupid dislike of me make your entire train of thought illogical.


Edited to remove ad hominem. Quite clearly, I never claimed that this fellow selling his tat on eBay made the endeavour legal. In suggesting that I did, you were ascribing to me fabricated argument.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[Par]

Are you going to show me these multi-region legal retail DVDs?


All right.

http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1216224501/ref=sr_pg_1?ie=UTF8&rs=130&keywords=%26%2334%3BRegion%200%26%2334%3B&rh=n%3A130%2Ck%3A%26%2334%3BRegion%200%26%2334%3B&page=1

http://www.play.com/HOME/HOME/6-/Search.html?searchstring=%22Region+0%22&searchtype=r2alldvd&searchsource=0

[~enigma~]

My dislike of stupid you is effecting nothing. Quite clearly, I never claimed that this fellow selling his tat on eBay made the endeavour legal. In suggesting that I did, you were ascribing to me fabricated argument.
Calling my argument stupid is one thing but you called me stupid?! Been reported and you should know you can't do that. I asked you if selling it on ebay made it legal, I never said you claimed it was. That is a question not a strawman argument...are you just playing illiterate? BTW, when are you going to show me the multi-region legal retail sets of DVDs? I guess you won't be showing them so it is clear that you lied about this.

[~enigma~]

All right.

http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1216224501/ref=sr_pg_1?ie=UTF8&rs=130&keywords=%26%2334%3BRegion%200%26%2334%3B&rh=n%3A130%2Ck%3A%26%2334%3BRegion%200%26%2334%3B&page=1

http://www.play.com/HOME/HOME/6-/Search.html?searchstring=%22Region+0%22&searchtype=r2alldvd&searchsource=0
Thank you. Now explain how these DVDs were pressed and not burnt?

Funny how the only thing you show are imports...

[nicepants]

Incidentally, the feedback listed at the bottom is taken from this eBay account:

http://myworld.ebay.com/crunkland

He’s been selling the same thing there – for fifteen dollars less!

Actually, it's been selling for $25 less ($175 vs $200)....that explains why $25 of each sale is going to AJ.

[~enigma~]

Actually, it's been selling for $25 less ($175 vs $200)....that explains why $25 of each sale is going to AJ.
Why don't he up the price to 225.00. That way he can impress the idiot truthers into thinking he is philanthropic.

[Par]

I asked you if selling it on ebay made it legal, I never said you claimed it was.


Well, if you think that’s sufficiently clear, then let’s say no more about it. For posterity, here is the exchange once again.

I’ve no idea as the legality. But after a (very cursory) scan over the collection, I noticed that it doesn’t appear to contain anything released after around 1996, which could explain its relative inexpensiveness.False. Many retail DVDs – especially collections, as opposed to movies – are released as Region 0, and some are even unencrypted. However, as I said, I’ve no idea as the legality. It seems somewhat dubious though, admittedly.Incidentally, the feedback listed at the bottom is taken from this eBay account: http://myworld.ebay.com/crunkland He’s been selling the same thing there – for fifteen dollars less!That makes it legal?!?!

[Par]

Thank you. Now explain how these DVDs were pressed and not burnt?...


If you wish to claim that Amazon.com and Play.com are both facilitating the sale of and directly selling burned, pirated DVDs, then I think the burden of proof is on you.

[Par]

Funny how the only thing you show are imports...


Remember, you said that the “only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate”. This is false. Therefore, you are wrong.

[Par]

Actually, it's been selling for $25 less ($175 vs $200)....that explains why $25 of each sale is going to AJ.


That’s true. But shipping is included on the current set, whereas – as I recall – it wasn’t on the eBay sale. I take your point, however.

[~enigma~]

Well, if you think that’s sufficiently clear, then let’s say no more about it. For posterity, here is the exchange once again.
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponentI asked a question not set up a strawman.

[Par]

Funny how the only thing you show are imports...


http://www.amazon.com/Forever-Region-0-Free/dp/B000H80LAE

Incidentally, Enigma, it looks as though you wish to make a subsequent point. That’s fine, of course. What you should say it something along the lines of the following: “I see. I was wrong. It is indeed possible to obtain Region 0 DVDs without ‘burning them like a common pirate’. However, Region 0 DVDs tend to be extremely obscure and are commonly imports. Thus, it seems unlikely that the collection in question is both Region 0 and legally pressed.

[Par]

I apologise for calling you stupid, Enigma. You are not stupid.

[Par]

I asked a question not set up a strawman.


That makes it illegal???

[dudalb]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate. Wonder if the licensing restrictions are so difficult in this country, how difficult would it be for international distribution? This is as illegal as a trillion dollar bill.


That's not quite accurate. Some Legitimate DVDs are released multi regional..particularly in Asia where several DVD regions can exist in the same market,and the DVD companies find it cheaper to release a Multi regiional DVD rather then one for each of the regions in their market.
AMazon sells some Multi regional discs for films that are not availabe in the US. They are not pirate editions, Amazon would not want the legal hassles that would come with selling illegal discs.
But I agree that theparticular discunder discussion has THe Jolly Roger written all over it.

[dudalb]

All right.

http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1216224501/ref=sr_pg_1?ie=UTF8&rs=130&keywords=%26%2334%3BRegion%200%26%2334%3B&rh=n%3A130%2Ck%3A%26%2334%3BRegion%200%26%2334%3B&page=1

http://www.play.com/HOME/HOME/6-/Search.html?searchstring=%22Region+0%22&searchtype=r2alldvd&searchsource=0

I bought the Multi regional DVDs of "El Cid" and "Fall Of The Roman Empire" from Amazon a few years ago. They are "Legal" DVDs, complete with copyright notice on the box. I have given them away since these films got a US Region 1 release earlier this year. But they were legal.

[nicepants]

Thus, it seems unlikely that the collection in question is both Region 0 and legally pressed.

I don't think these are being pressed. From their page:

"YOUR VIDEOS WILL NOT BE DUBBED UNTIL PAYMENT HAS CLEARED OUR BANK"

Sounds like they've got a DVD burner & a stack of blanks. That's the only way they could make any money doing this at low volume, especially if they're paying royalties.

So let's see....

Total price $200
Alex Jones $-25
DVD Media $-16 (.25 each)
Shipping $-5

That leaves $155. If 100% of this goes towards royalties, that's only 10 cents per song. Apple pays $.80 of royalties per song (to major labels) that it sells from its store, and that's WITH DRM! I have a hard time believing that any of the record labels would agreee to this music being distributed for royalty rates 1/8th what Apple has to pay.

[~enigma~]

If you wish to claim that Amazon.com and Play.com are both facilitating the sale of and directly selling burned, pirated DVDs, then I think the burden of proof is on you.
Didn't say the DVDs were illegal. I said burnt.

[~enigma~]

I apologise for calling you stupid, Enigma. You are not stupid.
Thank you.

[~enigma~]

That's not quite accurate. Some Legitimate DVDs are released multi regional..particularly in Asia where several DVD regions can exist in the same market,and the DVD companies find it cheaper to release a Multi regiional DVD rather then one for each of the regions in their market.
AMazon sells some Multi regional discs for films that are not availabe in the US. They are not pirate editions, Amazon would not want the legal hassles that would come with selling illegal discs.
But I agree that theparticular discunder discussion has THe Jolly Roger written all over it.
Where did I claim the DVDs Amazon was selling were pirated?

[Par]

I don't think these are being pressed. From their page.


Well spotted. Yes that seems reasonable.

[dudalb]

Where did I claim the DVDs Amazon was selling were pirated?


. You stated that all multi regional discs were pirated. Amazon sells some multi regional discs. Thus Amazon is selling pirated discs by your logic.
Enigama, just admit you were wrong about how all Multi Regional discs are illegal versions. You are really making yourself look bad here.

[~enigma~]

. You stated that all multi regional discs were pirated. Amazon sells some multi regional discs. Thus Amazon is selling pirated discs by your logic.
Enigama, just admit you were wrong about how all Multi Regional discs are illegal versions. You are really making yourself look bad here.
That isn't what I said. It may be your interpretation of what I said but it's wrong. Please reread my EXACT words and then tell me how I'm making myself look bad.

ETA - It is the people that are making assumptions contrary to what I said and are inanly attributing the words to me that are looking foolish.

[Aitch]

As a matter of interest, I just grabbed the top 3 DVDs off a pile by my TV. All music DVDs:

Roxy Music - On The Road Live - Region 0
Pink Floyd - Pulse - Region 0
Grateful Dead - Broadcasting Live - doesn't say, but German pressing, so probably 0.

All legal pressings, as far as I know - bought from Amazon or reputable shops.

In the UK a lot of the cheaper music DVDs are pressed Region 0 and quite a few in NTSC (rather than PAL) to widen the market and cut costs.

[~enigma~]

As a matter of interest, I just grabbed the top 3 DVDs off a pile by my TV. All music DVDs:

Roxy Music - On The Road Live - Region 0
Pink Floyd - Pulse - Region 0
Grateful Dead - Broadcasting Live - doesn't say, but German pressing, so probably 0.

All legal pressings, as far as I know - bought from Amazon or reputable shops.

In the UK a lot of the cheaper music DVDs are pressed Region 0 and quite a few in NTSC (rather than PAL) to widen the market and cut costs.
If you can, post pictures of the data side. AFAIK, multi-region DVDs are not pressed. certainly not if they are for sale in the USA.

[Par]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate. Wonder if the licensing restrictions are so difficult in this country, how difficult would it be for international distribution? This is as illegal as a trillion dollar bill.You stated that all multi regional discs were pirated... You are really making yourself look bad here.That isn't what I said. It may be your interpretation of what I said but it's wrong. Please reread my EXACT words and then tell me how I'm making myself look bad.


Heh.

[~enigma~]

Heh.
Let me ask you something, if I burn a DVD of family movies, what did I do that was illegal. Why is it some people around here don't know how to comprehend worth a ****?

[~enigma~]

Heh.
BTW, I know you knew the illegal as a trillion dollar bill pertained to the DVDs in question so do me a favor and take your Edited to remove personal remarks.

Please keep in mind the Membership Agreement and do not use personal attacks to argue your point.

[Par]

Let me ask you something, if I burn a DVD of family movies, what did I do that was illegal. Why is it some people around here don't know how to comprehend worth a ****?


That, of course, has nothing to do with the subject at issue.

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate. Wonder if the licensing restrictions are so difficult in this country, how difficult would it be for international distribution? This is as illegal as a trillion dollar bill.You stated that all multi regional discs were pirated... You are really making yourself look bad here.That isn't what I said. It may be your interpretation of what I said but it's wrong. Please reread my EXACT words and then tell me how I'm making myself look bad.

[defaultdotxbe]

here is the legal justification from the ebay listing:

In 1909 the codification originally applied to copies that had been sold (hence the "first sale doctrine"), but in the 1976 Act it was made to apply to any "owner" of a lawfully made copy or phonorecord (recorded music) regardless of whether it was first sold. So, for example, if the copyright owner licenses someone to make a copy (such as by downloading), then that copy (meaning the tangible medium of expression onto which it was copied under license, be it a hard drive or removable storage medium) may lawfully be sold, lent, traded, or given away.

however if my interpretation is correct they would have to purchase a separate download of each video for each copy they intend to sell, the seller is listing 1500 videos and 500 available, thats 750,000 downloads they would have had to purchase (assuming no videos are public domain)

i highly doubt theyve done that

[fullflavormenthol]

Dude is breaking the law, and doesn't understand what is meant by the First Sale Doctrine. First Sale Doctrine means that if I wrote a book and sold you a copy, you own that copy. This means that you can turn around and sale that copy to another person, and I have no claim on it. BUT...this seller seems to believe that if he buys a copy of the book he can then turn around and create 500 copies and then sale them claiming fair use.

Doesn't work that way at all, and it is crazy that he thinks this. ALTHOUGH...I think the seller actually knows he is breaking the law, because of his statement of how it can't be removed (like he is trying to scare people from reporting him).

[defaultdotxbe]

well after a bit more digging it appears this collection was licensed to Metal Edge Entertainment for use on the Metal Edge TV program

something tells me the licensing agreement doesnt allow them to transfer the material to another medium and resell it though (assuming the seller(s) is even the licensee)

[Par]

well after a bit more digging it appears this collection was licensed to Metal Edge Entertainment for use on the Metal Edge TV program something tells me the licensing agreement doesnt allow them to transfer the material to another medium and resell it though (assuming the seller(s) is even the licensee)


Yes. It seems he has (or claims to have) some sort of broadcast license which he is either simply breaching or in which he is exploiting rather unlikely loopholes.

[Aitch]

If you can, post pictures of the data side.
Standard shiny silver DVDs. Legally pressed in the UK/Germany.
AFAIK, multi-region DVDs are not pressed. certainly not if they are for sale in the USA.
What happens in the US is not necessarily what happens around the rest of the world.

Mind you, I've just checked Pulse on various Amazon sites; results are odd:
UK - Region 0
US - Region 1
Canada - not specified
France - Region 2
Germany - not specified
Japan - don't know - can't read Japanese :(
China - apparently not available there

[fullflavormenthol]

well after a bit more digging it appears this collection was licensed to Metal Edge Entertainment for use on the Metal Edge TV program

something tells me the licensing agreement doesnt allow them to transfer the material to another medium and resell it though (assuming the seller(s) is even the licensee)
Something is fishy to say the least. It also seems that between the eBay page, and the one on ConstitutionalTV the story has changed. And both times they get the 1st sale doctrine wrong.

While it is possible to transfer a license in weird ways, and remain legal; I don't think this collection is. I think it is a pirated set, and I reported it as such. If I am wrong, and it is legit; well good for them.

[eromitlab]

I'd say about 25% of my DVD collection is comprised of legit, professionally pressed region 0 DVDs; I buy a lot of DVDs from a smaller wrestling company that sells their shows through their website.

[TriskettheKid]

Let's be clear:

Region 0 can ALSO mean Region ALL. That means that some DVDs could be stamped with all 6 region codes, which would make them, essentially, Region 0 DVDs.

A lot of foreign import DVDs can be called Region 0, but actually be Region ALL, because they contain all 6 region codes on the disc.

For example, here's one from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Muerte-Burocrata-Region-Tomas-Gutierrez/dp/B000YNGTZ8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1216241087&sr=1-8

As you can see, it's listed as Region 0, but if you look at the product details, it's listed as Region ALL.

[ponderingturtle]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate. Wonder if the licensing restrictions are so difficult in this country, how difficult would it be for international distribution? This is as illegal as a trillion dollar bill.

Wrong. Legal makers can make region free DVD's if they want to. Most porn is region free.

They are not legaly required to use the legal system.

[~enigma~]

They are not legaly required to use the legal system.
???

[ponderingturtle]

I'd say about 25% of my DVD collection is comprised of legit, professionally pressed region 0 DVDs; I buy a lot of DVDs from a smaller wrestling company that sells their shows through their website.

Also what about the TAM DVD's?

[ponderingturtle]

???

That should read region system.

[cafink]

Let's be clear:

Region 0 can ALSO mean Region ALL. That means that some DVDs could be stamped with all 6 region codes, which would make them, essentially, Region 0 DVDs.

A lot of foreign import DVDs can be called Region 0, but actually be Region ALL, because they contain all 6 region codes on the disc.

For example, here's one from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Muerte-Burocrata-Region-Tomas-Gutierrez/dp/B000YNGTZ8/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1216241087&sr=1-8

As you can see, it's listed as Region 0, but if you look at the product details, it's listed as Region ALL.

"Region 0" and "Region ALL" mean exactly the same thing. Strictly speaking, there's no such thing as "Region 0." The term "Region 0" is just used as shorthand to mean "Region ALL"--that is, a DVD in which all eight (not six) region flags are set.
If you can, post pictures of the data side. AFAIK, multi-region DVDs are not pressed. certainly not if they are for sale in the USA.

You are mistaken. Though they are somewhat uncommon, particularly among major Hollywood studios, multi-region DVDs most certainly are pressed and available for sale in the USA.

[fullflavormenthol]

Okay, now that the gloves are off (thanks to another discussion) I will say my peace. Region 0 when selected (or sometime no region code selected at all) in any number of PROFESSIONAL DVD authoring programs will merely select ALL authoring codes. Meaning that the simple fact that a DVD is playable in all Regions does not mean that it is pirated, and anyone who thinks so is ignorant, and shouldn't be involved in a discussion.

There are two reasons to use region codes... 1.) To prevent a movie from being distributed before its time. 2.) Because of PAL and NTSC differences. Number two is the old case which is a moot point in the digital age, whice is why now 1 is the prominent reason. So many DVD manufactures will print a DVD in Region Free mode if they plan on selling it everywhere around the world at once.

Hence MANY DVD's released in the U.S. are region free if they are also being sold in all locations at once.

[Blackadder]

I GOT pain in MY Eyes reading that WeBSite! !!


We sold Tons of these sets on EBAY and They have Just went Absolutely CRAZY on Fees , They charge for This , Charge for That so We are Not offering Them on EBay anymore and will Pass The savings On to YOU!!! This is a collection That you and your family will enjoy for a LIFETIME

[luchog]

Only way you get multi-region DVDs is to burn them like a common pirate.

Just to nitpick, but this is not true. A number of studios release their DVDs for "Region 0", which means they are multi-region/region-free. Admittedly, it's mostly porn producers that do this; but a number of smaller indie distributors as well; particularly those selling to the international market. For example, The Werner Herzog 6-DVD box set (which contains all of his short films and documetaries) is Region 0.

[Aitch]

Admittedly, it's mostly porn producers that do this;

I wouldn't know about that ;) the majority of my Region 0 disks are music collections/concerts/etc.

[albion]

Just to nitpick, but this is not true. A number of studios release their DVDs for "Region 0", which means they are multi-region/region-free. Admittedly, it's mostly porn producers that do this; but a number of smaller indie distributors as well; particularly those selling to the international market. For example, The Werner Herzog 6-DVD box set (which contains all of his short films and documetaries) is Region 0.

Yep, among others Tartan Video (http://www.tartanvideo.com/) release all their films on region 0 and are most certainly not pirating them.

[krelnik]

Meanwhile, whilst various folks were typing 50+ messages of pointless sniping back and forth about Region 0 and piracy...

It appears that someone struck the fear of RIAA/MPAA into these guys. Following the DVD (http://www.constitutionaltv.com/dvd.htm) or EBAY (http://myworld.ebay.com/crunkland) links from earlier in the thread now, I can find no reference to music or movies. The DVD link appears to be a "demo" version of Rosetta stone containing "lesson 1" from each of several languages. That might well be a legitimate promotion that Rosetta lets people resell.

So well done.... or something.

[Aitch]

Meanwhile, whilst various folks were typing 50+ messages of pointless sniping back and forth about Region 0 and piracy...

Takes aim at krelnik with Region 0 AK47.

Hmmm, it's Chinese made - it couldn't be a pirated one, could it? :eek: