What is irony?

[beeksc1]

Meaning of irony; explanations of irony; scenarios that yielded a sense of irony; operational definitions of irony; to you, what is ironic? the feeling of irony; irony in modern culture; similarities among irony and satire

What is irony?

Being intrigued by language and cross-cultural phenomena, Someone who I met (SWIM) has formed the perspective that says the term "irony" maybe the most challenging phenomena to characterize and define; and once irony is described; what does the definition mean?

Suppose, an unexperienced person (adolescent) reads multiple definition and characterizations of the word irony (more than once), is that young person going to be able to recognize irony when it happens?

Definition of irony (Wiktionary)

1. A statement that, when taken in context, may actually mean the opposite of what is written literally; the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention.
2. (colloquial) The quality or state of an event being both coincidental and contradictory in a humorous or poignant and extremely improbable way.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/irony

Definition of irony (Dictionary.com)

1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, “How nice!” when I said I had to work all weekend.
2. Literature.
-a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated.
-b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion.
3. Socratic irony.
4. dramatic irony.
5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.
6. the incongruity of this.
7. an objectively sardonic style of speech or writing.
8. an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/irony

Characterization of irony (Wikipedia)

Irony is a literary or rhetorical device, in which there is an incongruity or discordance between what a speaker or writer says and what he or she means, or what is generally understood.
In modern usage it can also refer to particularly striking examples of incongruities observed in everyday life between what was intended or said and what actually happened. ... Most modern theories of rhetoric distinguish between three types of irony: verbal, dramatic and situational.


So, from the definitions: irony seems to characterize an experience that contradicts expectations, opposes topical understanding, and/or serves as a inversion of the literal meaning.

Someone who I met (SWIM) realizes that many phenomena are like, "well, you cannot really grasp it, until you experience it." But, irony has always drawn Swim's attention, especially after he started to experience it.

Verbal irony:
- Maya asks Wester how his experience was in the state penitentiary; and Wester replies, "oh it was fantastic, I had the time of my life." (Sarcasm epitomizes this kind of irony)

Dramatic irony:
- the mythical legend of Oedipus; he fulfilled a prophecy that said he would kill his father and marry his mother

Situational irony:

Irony of fate
- Jim Fix, the jogging-enthusiast and author of several running books dies while running (popularized by Bill Hicks)

Irony of history
- WWI was called the War to End All Wars

(Swim does not know if this is ironic or calculated?)

And irony seems to be somewhat subjective.

Anyway, scenarios that Swim has observed or has put together, which seems pretty ironic:

1. A nihilist who exercises freedom of thought.

2. A person who loves to nominate himself/herself as an atheist.

3. "The masses of people stare at a monitor that stretches as far as the eye can see; the visual screen bears a message, which is all too familiar to the gathered crowd of people. As the people are hypnotized by the bright lights and fancy decorations of the visual presentation, the masses receive their cue and recite in unison, "we are free, to do what we are told; we are free, to do what we are told. we are free, to do what we are told." And Wester turns to a person he knows from work, and says 'isn't it great to be free?'"

[PixyMisa]

2. A person who loves to nominate himself/herself as an atheist.
An atheist is someone lacking belief in god(s). No more, no less. So no, this is not an example of irony.

[plumjam]

Iron is quite irony.

[beeksc1]

^ Ok, sounds good. so does an atheist believe in atheistic evolution?

Evolution is just a theory. Swim accepts evolutionary theory as truth; but still acknowledges that the divine force that ultimately created humanity's consciousness

An atheist is someone lacking belief in god(s). No more, no less. So no, this is not an example of irony.

Really? it already has been noted that irony is subjective.

The ironic parody of irony can be beautiful


"The masses of people stare at a monitor that stretches as far as the eye can see; the visual screen bears a message, which is all too familiar to the gathered crowd of people. As the people are hypnotized by the bright lights and fancy decorations of the visual presentation, the masses receive their cue and recite in unison, "we are free, to do what we are told; we are free, to do what we are told. we are free, to do what we are told." And Wester turns to a person he knows from work, and says 'isn't it great to be free?'"

[PixyMisa]

^ Ok, sounds good. so does an atheist believe in atheistic evolution?
You mean, "evolution". Maybe. Maybe not.

Evolution is just a theory. Swim accepts evolutionary theory as truth; but still acknowledges that the divine force that ultimately created humanity's consciousnessThat's nice, but not particularly relevant.

Really? it already has been noted that irony is subjective.No, humour is subjective. You're thinking of alany.

The ironic parody of irony can be beautifulOr not. And that isn't a parody of irony; it's just irony.

[Jeff Corey]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Darat]

And that's quite ironic.

[bokonon]

Swim? With all that irony couldn't.

[quarky]

irony rules with an iron hand.

[drkitten]

Being intrigued by language and cross-cultural phenomena, Someone who I met (SWIM) has formed the perspective that ...

Have you considered forming perspectives and opinions of your own?

It can be quite rewarding.

[Ashles]

^ Ok, sounds good. so does an atheist believe in atheistic evolution?
Evolution is a meaningful term without the addition of the word 'atheistic'.
Does 'atheistic' electricity mean something different to electricity?

What do you think the term 'evolution' means?

Evolution is just a theory.
Yes and so is gravity.
Both are also considered facts.

Do you understand the scientific concept of a theory or proof?

Swim accepts evolutionary theory as truth; but still acknowledges that the divine force that ultimately created humanity's consciousness
Umm that's nice. Everyone is entitled to their religious views.
Nobody ever said accepting evolution to be fact precludes you from believing in a God.

Really? it already has been noted that irony is subjective.
Only to a certain extent. It can't mean anything you want it to mean.
PixyMesa is correct - your provided example is not irony by any term of the word.
It doesn't have any inherent contradiction - it means what it says.

[Ashles]

1. A nihilist who exercises freedom of thought.
I don't actually see why this would be considered ironic either. Is freedom of thought considered contradictory to the nihilist position?

[Marquis de Carabas]

This is the best illustration of what irony is and is not I ever have read:

If a diabetic, on his way to buy insulin, is killed by a runaway truck, he is the victim of an accident. If the truck was delivering sugar, he is the victim of an oddly poetic coincidence. But if the truck was delivering insulin, ah! Then he is the victim of an irony.

[beeksc1]

Or not. And that isn't a parody of irony; it's just irony.

It like a hologram; or a dream within a dream

Have you considered forming perspectives and opinions of your own?
It can be quite rewarding.

Weak.
and by the way, it has never occurred to me :o

Evolution is a meaningful term without the addition of the word 'atheistic'.
Does 'atheistic' electricity mean something different to electricity?

Do you understand the scientific concept of a theory or proof?

Umm that's nice. Everyone is entitled to their religious views.
Nobody ever said accepting evolution to be fact precludes you from believing in a God.


I know, just pointing out that there a few different perspectives that come from the theory of evolution

ugh. theories... we show evidence for theories; and deduce
proofs... those only apply to mathematics and physics

I know, everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want; perhaps, a perspective inclined toward atheism is just as much as a belief / acknowledgment of the divine-matrix that permeates the universe
oh yea, some people who have athiestic tendencies are some of the coolest/hippest people I know;

not trying to step on anyone's toes; I just like to be challenged in a respectful and peaceful way; because the more a person's knows, the more he realizes that he do not know.

I don't actually see why this would be considered ironic either. Is freedom of thought considered contradictory to the nihilist position?

Good question; glad it has been brought up
perhaps, if a (nihilistic) person acts on behalf of internal cognition; it would seem that he/she believes in freedom
Do not all well-hearted people believe in freedom?

This is the best illustration of what irony is and is not I ever have read

"If a diabetic, on his way to buy insulin, is killed by a runaway truck, he is the victim of an accident. If the truck was delivering sugar, he is the victim of an oddly poetic coincidence. But if the truck was delivering insulin, ah! Then he is the victim of an irony." ~George Carlin
:

A hypothetical scenario:
So a non-smoker is about to cross a busy intersection, and Gus gets a glance of another person who is enjoying smoke. immediately, Gus's attention is entirely focused on the person smoking, Juan; excepting Juan and his smoke, Gus is virtually unaware of his surroundings. Gus proceeds to walk across the street, and starts to heckel Juan, "smoking is so bad for you, it shortens your life," Gus is now shaking his finger at Juan, as Juan nonchalantly leans upon a building and inhales another toke.
Gus continues his tirade and his only focus is Juan, "that smoke makes you smell like an astray, smoking is bad for your lungs, that smoke harms you and other people, secondary smo...
As Gus tries to holler his last breath, a semi-truck plows over Gus.
no more Gus. and Juan, hits his smoke one more time and murmurs, "damn this smoke is fine."

I do not smoke; I just think this would be hilarious (to a certain extent).

[beeksc1]

I put in the George Carlin quote (in the last post), without even reading it because I am quite familiar with his work and know he is pretty heavy-duty. and i came up with the aforementioned scenario this morning when I was crossing the street when I was taking a run. when I started my run, I knew I could come up with an illustration that concerns people who always complain about smoke; but to have it like that...
but really these threads, this forum, etc. our experience on Earth... wow powerful stuff

multidimentionality

I was struck into a state of awe, thinking wow this has been too iro...

Swim will have to come up with another one, sometime; because

anyway, any humarious illustrations of irony that are to be shared?
any irony in the current events?

[Civilized Worm]

It's like goldy or bronzey but with iron.

[beeksc1]

^ Not exactly sure about what you are trying to say? I have an idea, but I am not a 100% on it.
Can you explain further?

+++

Scenario:
"a young gentleman, Buck, frequents a gathering place where ideas are thrown around; people discuss philosophy, art, music, culture, atheism, spirituality, politics, critical thinking; etc all the good stuff. and Buck attends the meeting place, and makes comments here and there; but by no means does Buck ever introduce a "novel" idea or move forward the critical thought that is going on. yet, Buck tells all one of his coworker's that he is apart of this fantastic group that discusses really cool ideas...
as Buck says to one of his co-worker, "yea, so last night when I was at the gathering place that I frequent, we were discussing transhumanism and how technology is going to eventually merge with human consciousness" as his coworker feigns an interest because he had heard this story before; also the coworker senses Buck's superficiality.
"oh really?" the coworker says, with much hesitation.
and Buck does not get it and continues, "yea, so last night, the discussion came to a stand-still, and everyone looked to me."
"oh whys thats" the coworker inquires, almost as if to egg Buck on.
excitedly Buck replies, "because when that kind of thing happens, I usually can revive the discussion..."
*
Later that evening Buck is sitting around with the other people who frequent the gathering place and Buck sees the coworker he runs his mouth to.
the night's topic concerns the pursuits of critical (empirical) thinkers and artists: one persons says, "well i think humor is the highest form of intellectual pursuits"
and another person who frequents the public discussions, "i agree that humor is one great attribute of humanity; but I feel that a pursuit of mathematics, music, and musical theory can be considered the highest forms of intellectual pursuit."
another persons, who happens to be the coworker that Buck was blabbing to earlier that day, says, "right on, numbers and music are so pure." and the coworker turns to Buck says inquires with a grin, "so Buck, what endeavors do you think are the highest forms of intellectual pursuit?"
and Buck responds with, "ugh, ugh, well you see, ugh, I think, I mean, hmm, well... whatever the group thinks, that is what I think."
and the coworker provides an accepting response, "oh all right, no matter if a person is an einstein or a run of the mill wood-widdler; all people have a contribution to share."

+++

Anyway, back to this thread and the previous post; Swim does not care if you are skeptical of how I came up with the smoker scenario. (and it is not like it is profound or anything) anyone can come up with ironic scenarios: and ironic sketches can be pretty dang humarious.

I posted the subsequent post because it seems kinda relevant to the topic that is being discussed

And Swim thought he would come up with another scenario... ya' kno fo' sh*ts and giggles

So the human mind, irony, personal illustrations

[PixyMisa]

It like a hologram; or a dream within a dream
No.

A hypothetical scenario:
So a non-smoker is about to cross a busy intersection, and Gus gets a glance of another person who is enjoying smoke. immediately, Gus's attention is entirely focused on the person smoking, Juan; excepting Juan and his smoke, Gus is virtually unaware of his surroundings. Gus proceeds to walk across the street, and starts to heckel Juan, "smoking is so bad for you, it shortens your life," Gus is now shaking his finger at Juan, as Juan nonchalantly leans upon a building and inhales another toke.
Gus continues his tirade and his only focus is Juan, "that smoke makes you smell like an astray, smoking is bad for your lungs, that smoke harms you and other people, secondary smo...
As Gus tries to holler his last breath, a semi-truck plows over Gus.
no more Gus. and Juan, hits his smoke one more time and murmurs, "damn this smoke is fine."

I do not smoke; I just think this would be hilarious (to a certain extent).
Someone said something once about brevity.

[JoeTheJuggler]

So is all this "what is irony" stuff just a way of leading up to the tired old "evolution is just a theory" thing?

(By the way, evolution is a fact. Evolution by natural selection is a scientific theory.)

A scientific theory is not "just a theory" in the way you mean it (i.e. that you can believe it or not as a matter of personal choice and either position is equally valid).

Check out Talk Origins on the "only a theory" argument: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html

[quarky]

I get the feeling that irony will expose itself if this thread continues.

[Complexity]

beeksc1 - You're writing unreadable drivel.

You're lucky - I think your writing style is covering up your lousy thinking.

[Moochie]

Well, most of the clothing I used to wear was iron-y, and because I hated ironing, I now wear non-ironic casual wear.

M.

[Ashles]

I know, just pointing out that there a few different perspectives that come from the theory of evolution
As mentioned previously evolution is a fact. You didn't answer my question about whether you understood about scientific theories.
You certainly don't appear to accept evolution as the fact that it is agreed to be.
Could you clarify your position on this?

ugh. theories... we show evidence for theories; and deduce
proofs... those only apply to mathematics and physics
But lack of 'proof' does not preclude something still being considered fact.

I know, everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want; perhaps, a perspective inclined toward atheism is just as much as a belief / acknowledgment of the divine-matrix that permeates the universe
No it isn't - it is, by definition, the opposite. If by 'divine-matrix' you are implying any form of deity.
It's hard to tell - you seem to be keeping all of your responses deliberately vague which implies either a confused position, a reluctance to commit to an potentially indefensible position or poor writing style.

oh yea, some people who have athiestic tendencies are some of the coolest/hippest people I know
I dont know what relevance that is to anything - was the coolness/hipness of anyone the discussion here?

[Nogbad]

Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea

I find that quite ironic.

[Niobe]

The song "ironic" talks about all kinds of situations that aren't really ironic therefore making the song ironic.

Am I doing this right?

[Nogbad]

The song "ironic" talks about all kinds of situations that aren't really ironic therefore making the song ironic.

Am I doing this right?

Works for me

[NobbyNobbs]

Verbal irony:
- Maya asks Wester how his experience was in the state penitentiary; and Wester replies, "oh it was fantastic, I had the time of my life." (Sarcasm epitomizes this kind of irony)


This is sarcasm. I would say that sarcasm and irony are different beasts. Exactly how to distinguish them by definitions, though, I don't really know. It's one of those "I know it when I see it" things.

[Nogbad]

This is sarcasm. I would say that sarcasm and irony are different beasts. Exactly how to distinguish them by definitions, though, I don't really know. It's one of those "I know it when I see it" things.

I tend view irony as sarcasm's smarter more elegant cousin.

[quarky]

and paradox is irony's mom

[beeksc1]

The illustrations that have been posted may not be the greatest examples of all time; but, the hypothetical scenarios do show ironic situations.

1. Being told to recite, "We are free."
2. Non-smoker dies, while harassing a person who is smoking.
3. Person who topically appears to talk a big game; he ends up participating in group think. That person (Buck) does not seek out all available info, facts, evidence; thus, he is unable to put together a personal perspective that is both unique and falls in line with the wisdom that has been uncovered by the people who have come before us.

This poster is here to learn and grow. And no other poster has offered an illustration that shows irony.

The illustrations that have been posted are examples of irony. Some of the feedback maybe ironic in and of itself; ie, there is a fundamental incongruity in the posts that add nothing to this topic.

No, this thread is not about the theory of evolution. This poster believes in evolution. Sorry if you got that impression :)

beeksc1 - You're writing unreadable drivel.


"Unreadable drivel"? Can you expand upon / attempt to explain that? That is fine, if that is what you think; but a so-called critical thinker would have noted reasons to back up his opinion.

Instead of name calling and cheeky remarks; perhaps, discuss the topic at hand. Come up with own illustration of irony. Offer a meaning of irony, in your own words. Reflect upon the illustrations of irony that have been posted and see if they personally apply.


But lack of 'proof' does not preclude something still being considered fact.

I dont know what relevance that is to anything - was the coolness/hipness of anyone the discussion here?

Right on.

Maybe not; maybe. Just conveying that the perspective of both the people who believe in atheistic evolution and those who believe in a higher power of divinity (most often) have contributions to add.

I tend view irony as sarcasm's smarter more elegant cousin.

In deed. Sarcasm sometimes can be caustic and spiteful; yet, the observation / unfolding of irony usually is beautiful.

+++

Irony refers to scenarios, situation, dialogue, etc that highlights a contradiction, which has been illustrated in the aforementioned conversation, events, story, etc.

+++

beeksc1
You're lucky - I think your writing style is covering up your lousy thinking.


Scenario:
"A young gentleman, Buck, frequents a gathering place where ideas are thrown around; people discuss philosophy, art, music, culture, atheism, spirituality, politics, critical thinking; etc all the good stuff. And Buck attends the meeting place, and makes comments here and there; but by no means does Buck ever introduce a "novel" idea or move forward the critical thought that is going on. Yet, Buck tells all one of his coworker's that he is apart of this fantastic group that discusses really cool ideas.
***
As Buck says to one of his co-worker, "Yea, so last night when I was at the gathering place that I frequent, we were discussing transhumanism and how technology is going to eventually merge with human consciousness" as his coworker feigns an interest because he had heard this story before; also the coworker senses Buck's superficiality.
"Oh really?" the coworker says, with much hesitation.
And Buck does not get it and continues, "Yea, so last night, the discussion came to a stand-still, and everyone looked to me."
"Oh whys thats" the coworker inquires, almost as if to egg Buck on.
Excitedly Buck replies, "because when that kind of thing happens, I usually can revive the discussion..."
***
Later that evening Buck is sitting around with the other people who frequent the gathering place and Buck sees the coworker he runs his mouth to.
The night's topic concerns the pursuits of critical (empirical) thinkers and artists: one persons says, "Well i think humor is the highest form of intellectual pursuits"
And another person who frequents the public discussions, "I agree that humor is one great attribute of humanity; but I feel that a pursuit of mathematics, music, and musical theory can be considered the highest forms of intellectual pursuit."
Another persons, who happens to be the coworker that Buck was blabbing to earlier that day, says, "Right on, numbers and music are so pure." And the coworker turns to Buck says inquires with a grin, "so Buck, what endeavors do you think are the highest forms of intellectual pursuit?"
And Buck responds with, "ugh, ugh, well you see, ugh, I think, I mean, hmm, well... whatever the group thinks, that is what I think."
And the coworker provides an accepting response, "oh all right, no matter if a person is an einstein or a run of the mill wood-widdler; all people have a contribution to share."


hmm...

So, as long as a person is here to broaden his/her perspective, do philosophy, create, practice critical thinking skills/abilities etc, the participation is encouraged.

The more a person knows, the more he realizes that there is much more to know.

+++

The song "ironic" talks about all kinds of situations that aren't really ironic therefore making the song ironic.
Am I doing this right?

:)

[Darth Rotor]

This is the best illustration of what irony is and is not I ever have read:
But if he was an impoverished black gangsta in LA, and the truck was carrying I-beams, it was an irony, poor Blood.

Ba dump, tsch.

Don't forget to tip your waitress.

DR

[Ashles]

Maybe not; maybe. Just conveying that the perspective of both the people who believe in atheistic evolution and those who believe in a higher power of divinity (most often) have contributions to add.
So to get this straight, both believers in God and non-believers in God can have opinions and thoughts?

Um, thanks for the information.
Has this thread ceased being about irony and has now entered into illustrations of the blindingly obvious?

Sorry beeks, but it sounds like you think some of your comments are a little more profound than they are in fact coming across.

[quarky]

that's ironic, eh?

[Irony]

Irony is a poster in this forum.

[Nogbad]

Lt-Cdr Bill Boaks, a war hero and road safety campaigner who contested 21 by-elections for his Air, Road, Public Safety Party travelled around the country on a tricycle covered by a wooden superstructure festooned with slogans. He died as a result of head injuries sustained in a traffic accident.

[Moochie]

Not only is there a Sarcasm Society, but it has a section on Irony.

http://www.sarcasmsociety.com/irony/


M.

[beeksc1]

So to get this straight, both believers in God and non-believers in God can have opinions and thoughts?
Um, thanks for the information.
Has this thread ceased being about irony and has now entered into illustrations of the blindingly obvious?
Sorry beeks, but it sounds like you think some of your comments are a little more profound than they are in fact coming across.

Ok, thanks for the mediocre input; so, how many illustrations of irony have you offered?

Irony generally refers to (http://www.sarcasmsociety.com/irony/)

the difference between what someone does or says in relation to what is understood about what is done or said. Often times there is a bit of confusion over what is ironic and what is merely coincidental.



V - Spot on
Lt-Cdr Bill Boaks, a war hero and road safety campaigner who contested 21 by-elections for his Air, Road, Public Safety Party travelled around the country on a tricycle covered by a wooden superstructure festooned with slogans. He died as a result of head injuries sustained in a traffic accident.

[Furi]

Would this class as an example?

Pretty much shows the general incompetence that generalizes throughout the vast majority of the posters on this forum. Many of the posters here have intelligible comments to add; yet, a large portion of the posters who have 1,000+ are nothing more than numskulls, who have nothing better to do except to heckle.

Oh, the irony of misspelling "numbskull" is so freakin' delicious. :D

[Jeff Corey]

Not only is there a Sarcasm Society, but it has a section on Irony.

http://www.sarcasmsociety.com/irony/


M.
Now I'm really confused. I fail to get Socratic irony. Maybe Beeks could explain it to me in a sentence or twelve.

[beeksc1]

No. Numskull can be spelled both ways; either of them are acceptable, you cheeky nincompoop! :)


numskull (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/numskull) (plural numskulls)
1. (pejorative) dunce, a mentally dull or stupid person.
2. (pejorative) A label for a person who refuses to learn or grow, mentally.
That numskull will never learn how to compose a letter.
3. A traditional name for a fool who serves as the butt of jokes about stupidity.


Now I'm really confused. I fail to get Socratic irony. Maybe Beeks could explain it to me in a sentence or twelve.
Nice; I dig it!
Well, you see, Socratic irony is...
No way! :D

[Ashles]

Ok, thanks for the mediocre input; so, how many illustrations of irony have you offered?
Oh, I didn't realise it was a competition.

You gave some examples you felt illustrated irony - I pointed out where I felt they did not.

Also I was mainly interested as to whether you were making some form of point about atheism and/or evolution. It seemed that was more the point you were getting at, especially as you posted this topic in Religion and Philosophy.

[beeksc1]

^ Nah, not a competition. Just friendly banter?

Scenario:

A guy is a life guard at the ocean. One night while taking a bath, the person knocks his heads and falls unconscious. The life guard drowns in the tube.

[Drudgewire]

No. Numskull can be spelled both ways; either of them are acceptable, you cheeky nincompoop! :)


Anyone have some freshly-baked crow for me to eat? :o

[beeksc1]

^ Hey guy, I was debating as to whether or not to put the clicheed phrase, just kiddin'; but, I figured you knew I was joshing around. When I was first typing the word "numbskull" in the message box, a red line appeared under it; looked up the word and was surprised to see that both spellings are acceptable.

[beeksc1]

Irony:
A habitual TV watcher who is prejudice against people who are advocates of entheogenic drugs, which do not pose physical dependency (psychedelics).

Psychedelics "fry" your brain; oh yeah?

Does watching the teley corrupt your mind?