Apollo 14 astronaut claims aliens HAVE made contact

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Apollo 14 astronaut claims aliens HAVE made contact
- but it has been covered up for 60 years (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1037471/Apollo-14-astronaut-claims-aliens-HAVE-contact--covered-60-years.html)

Aliens have contacted humans several times but governments have hidden the truth for 60 years, the sixth man to walk on the moon has claimed.

Apollo 14 astronaut Dr Edgar Mitchell, said he was aware of many UFO visits to Earth during his career with NASA but each one was covered up.


I don't really have much to add. While I'd personally love for it to be undeniably revealed that extraterrestrial intelligence is actually in contact with our insignificant little planet, this just doesn't seem plausible to me. All of the world's governments are keeping hush-hush? (If not, then which countries does the phrase "all our governments" include?)

Also, it's on the Daily Mail's website, so...

[SDC]

60 years ... 1948. Well, that would explain the mix-up over "Dewey Defeats Truman" headlines.

[fuelair]

Apollo 14 astronaut claims aliens HAVE made contact
- but it has been covered up for 60 years (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1037471/Apollo-14-astronaut-claims-aliens-HAVE-contact--covered-60-years.html)




I don't really have much to add. While I'd personally love for it to be undeniably revealed that extraterrestrial intelligence is actually in contact with our insignificant little planet, this just doesn't seem plausible to me. All of the world's governments are keeping hush-hush? (If not, then which countries does the phrase "all our governments" include?)

Also, it's on the Daily Mail's website, so...I really hope that's a made up by the DM statement. I would hate to believe the alternate.

[gdnp]

Mitchell's name last came up on a list of supposed 9/11 deniers, at which point I found this link (http://www.noetic.org/about.cfm) to the Institute for Noetic Science, which could easily be renamed The Institute for Woo. He is the founder.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Mitchell's name last came up on a list of supposed 9/11 deniers, at which point I found this link (http://www.noetic.org/about.cfm) to the Institute for Noetic Science, which could easily be renamed The Institute for Woo. He is the founder.


Oh, man...

Institute of Noetic Sciences: "Institute programs include research in what they call "extended human capacities," "integral health and healing," and "emerging worldviews". This includes research into spiritual energy, meditation, consciousness, alternative healing, spirituality, human potential, psychic abilities and life after death, among others."

That's a shame...

[Mercutio]

Too many space rays...

... why couldn't he just turn into Jessica Alba?

[Bee]

Have you read any books by Timothy Good?, he's a 'researcher' positive aliens have colonised the planet and he's made a career from these kind of quotes. I've read Alien Liaison, Alien base and Above Top Secret and they are full of quotes from top ranking military and government agents claiming mass cover-ups. Personally I don't think he's spoken to half the people he claims to have interviewed in his books and I'm quite sure the half he's taken out of context. He believes aliens are here and isn't going to let a little thing like the truth persuade him otherwise ;).

[Furi]

Too many space rays...

... why couldn't he just turn into Jessica Alba?

Seems he's turned into Lisa Nowak instead

[JonnyFive]

Oh, man...

Institute of Noetic Sciences: "Institute programs include research in what they call "extended human capacities," "integral health and healing," and "emerging worldviews". This includes research into spiritual energy, meditation, consciousness, alternative healing, spirituality, human potential, psychic abilities and life after death, among others."

That's a shame...

One cannot practice integral health and healing without first calculating the antiderivative of the soul.

Not an easy thing to do, I'm afraid.

[dudalb]

Too many space rays...

... why couldn't he just turn into Jessica Alba?


Though Alba was totally too young for Sue Storm...Naomi Watts would have been perfect.

[PhantomWolf]

Unfortunately Dr Mitchell has always been on the edge of the X-Files. On the Apollo 14 mission he attempted to conduct an experiment into ESP.

[dudalb]

Unfortunately Dr Mitchell has always been on the edge of the X-Files. On the Apollo 14 mission he attempted to conduct an experiment into ESP.

This is a publicity bonanza for Fox, with the X Files 2 opening this weekend.

[uruk]

The Apollo astronauts were pilots not scientists. A few had degrees in engineering and such.

All of them are human beings. Extrodinarily brave human beings. It does not suprise me that one or more may have woo leanings

[Skeptic Guy]

Too many space rays...

... why couldn't he just turn into Jessica Alba?

Wouldn't matter, he still wouldn't have anything to do with us.

[peteweaver]

I was going to start a thread about this, but you've beaten me to it...

Has he ever claimed to have seen a UFO ?

[JonnyFive]

What would be best is if he would actually show some kind of evidence that anything he claims is even remotely true.

[moon1969]

Why would Fox news and others report it if it was true? I mean come on. If there really was a conspiracy, I doubt that these people would be able to tell about it. And what aliens? the reptiles and David Icke? Or George Adamski? raelians and Claude Vorilhon? Erich von Däniken and Jordan Maxwell? LOL there are so many people who claim things just to get money and publicity.

[timhau]

In related news, Dr. Mitchell's neighbors enter his house when he's not home and move things around and the electric company is trying to read his mind through the bedroom wall sockets.

[moon1969]

Lets not forget all the major cults who allso claim to believe in UFOS.

1. Aetherius Society

2. Heaven's Gate

3. Nation of Islam believes in UFOS

4. Scientology

5. Unarius Academy of Science

6. Universe people

Urantia Book and Talmud Jmmanuel

I guess there is just too many people selling their product in the UFO market?

[firecoins]

Apparently aeins have visited Earth according to a former astronaught.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24070088-13762,00.html

This is just odd.

[Drudgewire]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=119295

[Plantfoam]

Lets not forget all the major cults who allso claim to believe in UFOS.

1. Aetherius Society

2. Heaven's Gate*

3. Nation of Islam believes in UFOS

4. Scientology

5. Unarius Academy of Science

6. Universe people

Urantia Book and Talmud Jmmanuel

I guess there is just too many people selling their product in the UFO market?

Claimed? I guess they truly weren't in it for the money. They were all about the crazy half of the equaton I suppose.

[moon1969]

Oh come on. His just saying that to get money and publicity. Do you know who many UFO cults and UFO religions are there? Plus Kenneth Arnold was a businessman. Money and publicity nothing more.

[moon1969]

And what evidence had that guy shown to support his claim? And why would even Fox News report the story if it was true? He would not be able to talk about it if there was a major conspiracy.

[alex04]

i've noticed some of the conspiracy forums out there have gone nuts on this one. (heh)

Amazing how they'll believe him about UFOs at the drop of a hat, but yet are so skeptical about there being a moon landing.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Oh come on. His just saying that to get money and publicity. Do you know who many UFO cults and UFO religions are there? Plus Kenneth Arnold was a businessman. Money and publicity nothing more.

Kenneth Arnold saw pelicans on their Southward migration. His description matches they way they fly, it was that time of year and other pilots saw the same thing about the same time and correctly identified the objects as birds. He never said he saw "Flying Saucers"; he said the objects appeared to "skip like saucers".

The Truth really is Out There. The problem is that people people want a good story. They do not want prosaic explanations. :sigh:

[gdnp]

i've noticed some of the conspiracy forums out there have gone nuts on this one. (heh)

Amazing how they'll believe him about UFOs at the drop of a hat, but yet are so skeptical about there being a moon landing.

Nominated for pith. That just about says it all.

[theprestige]

Nominated for pith. That just about says it all.
Nah, they just figure anybody who was in on the Apollo Hoax is in on the Alien thing, too.

[Kopji]

CONFIDENTIAL Minutes from secret meeting prior to Apollo 14 launch

Mitchell: ...So, I understand how we get there and land, but can you go over the part about us getting back to Earth again?

Launch Commander: Our *wink wink* diminutive friends have reviewed our procedures and found everything in order. You can set your mind at rest... and oh my, it's time to go.

[Corsair 115]

Unfortunately Dr Mitchell has always been on the edge of the X-Files. On the Apollo 14 mission he attempted to conduct an experiment into ESP.The book A Man on the Moon by Andrew Chaikin recounts the incident. Firstly, Mitchell didn't tell commander Alan Shepard about the "experiement" since Shepard was well-known as a hard-driving s.o.b. who wasn't going to put up with any nonsense on his chance to land on the moon.

The "experiment" didn't work out as planned in any case since the times Mitchell had told his compatriots back on Earth to try and recieve the psychic messages were off since the launch had been delayed by forty minutes.

[theprestige]

The "experiment" didn't work out as planned in any case since the times Mitchell had told his compatriots back on Earth to try and recieve the psychic messages were off since the launch had been delayed by forty minutes.
Seems like an experienced astronaut, who had certainly seen launches delayed before, and even had a hand in devising the protocols and procedures for managing launch delays, would have known to tell his compatriots "T + [time]" rather than "Local time X".

[Drudgewire]

Buzz Aldrin is scheduled as a guest on Opie and Anthony Friday. Should be interesting since Jim Norton, the guy who buried Jesse Ventura on the 9/11 stuff, seems to think the fact a guy who walked on the moon is saying there are aliens is pretty close to indisputable proof (he may have backtracked by now, haven't had a chance to listen since last Friday).

Hopefully, Buzz won't have to punch him to set him straight:

One of my first UFO questions stated that Apollo astronaut Buzz Aldrin had reported that he and his crew members saw a UFO on Apollo 11. “Edwin Aldrin recently came out in a special on the Science Channel and stated that the astronauts aboard Apollo 11 all saw unidentified objects which seemed to have been following them. He also mentions that they were briefed not to talk about what they had seen. What does NASA have to say in response to this? What were those objects they all saw?”

To get a straight story, I called Buzz Aldrin, who was happy to explain what had happened. He said that the quotations were taken out of context and did not convey the intended meaning. After the Apollo 11 crew verified that the object they were seeing was not the SIVB upper stage, which was about 6000 miles away at that time, they concluded that they were probably seeing one of the panels from the separation of the spacecraft from the upper stage. These panels were not tracked from Earth and were likely much closer to the Apollo spacecraft. They chose not to discuss this on the open communications channel since they were concerned that their comments might be misinterpreted (as they are being now). All of this explanation about the panels was cut from the broadcast interview, thus giving the impression that the Apollo 11 crew had seen a UFO. Buzz said that he was angry about the deceptive editing and asked them to correct this reversal of what he had said, but they refused.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/07-11-14.html

[Drudgewire]

Well, Buzz started the show off today. Ant was clearly in awe, and was shaken enough to call the Moon Hoax CTers "skeptics" and was saying how much hated them before correcting himself, which put Aldrin on edge for a second and exclaimed "I am a skeptic." Anthony quickly stressed how much he loved it when Buzz decked Sibrel. :D

And sure enough Jimmy had to ask about Dr. Mitchell:

Buzz Aldrin/O&A on Dr. Mitchell's alien contact claims (http://www.zshare.net/audio/1638520868d53f57/) (3 min)

Interview obviously dragged at times because the boys tend to go lowbrow and everyone was too afraid to disrespect a hero, but Buzz has a biting sense of humor himself and overall it was good, good radio.

[jhunter1163]

Have you read any books by Timothy Good?, he's a 'researcher' positive aliens have colonised the planet and he's made a career from these kind of quotes. I've read Alien Liaison, Alien base and Above Top Secret and they are full of quotes from top ranking military and government agents claiming mass cover-ups. Personally I don't think he's spoken to half the people he claims to have interviewed in his books and I'm quite sure the half he's taken out of context. He believes aliens are here and isn't going to let a little thing like the truth persuade him otherwise ;).


I've read a couple of his books, and as a UFO researcher he is an outstanding musician (his day job is/was as a violinist for the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, I believe). They're full of presumption and quote-mining, and sprinkled with a liberal dose of plain old-fashioned woowoo.

Also, don't go to his website as it is infected with viruses.

[alex04]

Nah, they just figure anybody who was in on the Apollo Hoax is in on the Alien thing, too.


Well, apparently Edgar Mitchell is in on the 'apollo hoax' as he claims he's been to the moon (http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0708/record-straight.html)

But he's exposing the UFO conspiracy?:boggled:

[Brendy]

Does anyone really think our government is THAT good at keeping secrets?

I'd say some proof would have been leaked by now. I know i'd leak proof if I ever saw it. Wouldn't you?

[albie]

Is there any debunking of these alien claims other than "hey. he's a woo woo."?
Has he shown signs of mental illness? Does he come across as deluded?

Seems to me that he's getting his info from people in his organisation or connected departments. So we are not talking about him seeing strange blobs in the sky. Which is easily deflated. Either these people were offering THEIR opinions based on vague evidence or they were lying to him...or telling the truth.

The above poster talks about the US government not being able to keep it all under wraps. Couldn't this be such a thing?

For the record I think the possible existence of aliens is far greater than other things you debunk here, such as some fat barber contacting ghosts in an old inn or George Bush blowing up towers to start wars.( i wonder how the aliens would feel about that)

The idea of aliens existing is no fantastic a notion as us existing.

[Comsat Angel]

If aliens have made contact, that news would make NASA one of the most important organisations on earth, able to command a budget of trillions without question. So - they keep it quiet and operate on a shoestring at the whims of politicians instead? Yeah right!

[albie]

A shoestring? Why do you assume that?

If the government didn't want us to know about the aliens then shrinking the size of NASA would surely be logical.

Whims of politicians? Why do you assume that?

[gdnp]

Is there any debunking of these alien claims other than "hey. he's a woo woo."?
Has he shown signs of mental illness? Does he come across as deluded?

I suggest you look at the Institute of Noetic Sciences that he has founded. The link is in post #4. This is a summary, from post #5:

Institute of Noetic Sciences: "Institute programs include research in what they call "extended human capacities," "integral health and healing," and "emerging worldviews". This includes research into spiritual energy, meditation, consciousness, alternative healing, spirituality, human potential, psychic abilities and life after death, among others."

Most of us here consider such research woo-woo and those that believe in them deluded.

[albie]

Considering you can only judge these things in a case by case way your opinion of them being delusional should wax and wane(if you are being scientific). If you have a set prejudice then I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you have investigated and debunked so many of these things that you feel you can no longer afford any other view.

Like I said "Is there any debunking of these alien claims other than "hey. he's a woo woo."?"

You appear to be reiterating your opinion and not providing anything else.

Seems a bit sloppy. But then the amount of faith needed to disbelieve often equals the amount needed to believe.

[albie]

The forms of evidence are different. Some guy waving his hands about and saying he's curing my disease is one thing (dubious). A guy telling me he knows that aliens are amongst us is another. Judging the man's latter form of evidence because of the former is just lazy...if tempting.

[Dave Rogers]

Is there any debunking of these alien claims other than "hey. he's a woo woo."?

It's not the claim that needs debunking, but the evidence that's advanced in support of the claim. Since there is no evidence other than the unsupported word of a single individual, there is nothing to debunk. Occam's razor will serve here; either there is a massive lie kept secret by a huge number of people, or a single person is either lying or deluded.

Please note that Mitchell's claim is not that there are intelligent life forms on other planets, but that intelligent life forms from other planets are in continual contact with this one, and that this contact has been kept secret, not only from the general public, but from the scientific community. That's a far more exceptional claim than a general statement that aliens exist.

Dave

[albie]

So what you are saying is that you cannot debunk it. Which (to the scientific minded) leaves it open.
Any problems you with people keeping secrets is neither here nor there.

Occam's razor is such an unimaginative blunt tool. I really cannot understand why people on these forums use it like it isn't.

[albie]

People use the term 'deluded' too much too. Believing in psychic things is not strictly delusional. It is certainly not evidence enough that this man is so deluded that he could imagine or hallucinate people telling him about aliens being real. That would require a certain degree of mental illness that would be blatantly observable.
He COULD be passing on opinions that he's exaggerated. How he would have managed that, I don't know.
If he's lying then I fail to see why he would do that, unless he wanted to boost interest in his psychic camp.

[Dave Rogers]

So what you are saying is that you cannot debunk it. Which (to the scientific minded) leaves it open.

No, what I'm saying is that there's no credible evidence to debunk. Which (to the scientific mind) leaves it not worth bothering with.

It is certainly not evidence enough that this man is so deluded that he could imagine or hallucinate people telling him about aliens being real. That would require a certain degree of mental illness that would be blatantly observable.

What's your evidence for that claim? Are you an expert in diagnosis of mental illness?

Anyway, some would say that his espousal of various other non-evidence based beliefs is the blatant means by which that mental illness can be observed.

If he's lying then I fail to see why he would do that, unless he wanted to boost interest in his psychic camp.

If the entire US Government and the entire scientific community are lying, then I can see even less motive. So you've identified a plausible motive for one man to be lying set against the possibility that hundreds of thousands are lying with no plausible motive. I know which option I find easier to believe.

Dave

[albie]

""No, there's nothing different. Several of [the reports of the interview] that I've seen come around have some flaws in them. Some of the reports pushed it or spun it incorrectly. NASA had nothing to do with anything I've done. I wasn't briefed by NASA. There haven't been any sightings as a result of my flight service there, so if that part of it comes out on anything you've seen it is just totally wrong.

"My major knowledge comes from what I call the old-timers, people who were at Roswell and subsequent who wanted to clear the things up and tell somebody credible even though they were under severe threats and things -- this was back in the Roswell days. Having gone to the moon and being a local citizen out in the Roswell area some of them thought I would be a safe choice to tell their story to, which they did. Even though the government put real clamps on everybody, it got out anyhow.

"Subsequent to that, I did take my story to the Pentagon -- not NASA, but the Pentagon -- and asked for a meeting with the Intelligence Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and got it. And told them my story and what I know and eventually had that confirmed by the admiral that I spoke with, that indeed what I was saying was true.""

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=843c71dec0ed26a06c51b3462d9b24 00&topic=13855.15

Sounds pretty sane to me.

[albie]

"If the entire US Government and the entire scientific community are lying, then I can see even less motive. So you've identified a plausible motive for one man to be lying set against the possibility that hundreds of thousands are lying with no plausible motive. I know which option I find easier to believe."

LESS motive? Covering up alien contact at the orders of their superiors?

"What's your evidence for that claim? Are you an expert in diagnosis of mental illness?"

Evidence? Knowledge. Have you ever met anyone with mental illness? Someone who imagines meeting with the pentagon would probably have his pants around his ankles 24/7.
This is just obvious.

[Dave Rogers]

Sounds pretty sane to me.

Sounds pretty gullible to me. Basically a bunch of practical jokers spun him a line, he swallowed it, and took it to some Admiral who humoured him just to get him out of the office. Whatever you say, it's a single testimony unsupported by physical evidence, and it's worthless.

LESS motive? Covering up alien contact at the orders of their superiors?

You haven't established a motive for their superiors to give those orders, nor have you established that the entire scientific community works for the US government. Here's a hint: we don't.

Evidence? Knowledge. Have you ever met anyone with mental illness? Someone who imagines meeting with the pentagon would probably have his pants around his ankles 24/7.
This is just obvious.

Yes, I've met people with mental illnesses who've seemed perfectly normal. Your ridiculous hyperbole only serves to destroy your credibility.

Dave

[albie]

Motive? For keeping aliens secret? Come on. I'm sure you don't need me to come up with a few.

Gullible? Yeah. NASA scientists lying to astronauts about aliens, for a laugh. That doesn't sounds like a credible argument. The more I hear of the debunkers on this issue the more convinced I am that this spaceman has something.

"Yes, I've met people with mental illnesses who've seemed perfectly normal. Your ridiculous hyperbole only serves to destroy your credibility."

Oh, here come the insults. Getting a bit hot under the collar? Finding this a bit of a stretch for you?

You've met mentally ill people who have told you they met the pentagon and were actually astronauts capable of meeting with the pentagon, and they seemed normal? Course you have. I smell ********.

Give me an account of these normal mad people.

[albie]

"No, what I'm saying is that there's no credible evidence to debunk. Which (to the scientific mind) leaves it not worth bothering with."

So that's why there's a thread on here about it. Because you are not scientifically minded.

Way to discredit the entire forum.*)

[Dave Rogers]

You've met mentally ill people who have told you they met the pentagon and were actually astronauts capable of meeting with the pentagon, and they seemed normal? Course you have. I smell ********.

Now who's getting a bit hot under the collar? Deliberately lying about what I said in the post before isn't going to help your credibility either.

Give me an account of these normal mad people.

You first. Tell me about all these people you've met who can give cogent accounts of meetings with senior officers in the Pentagon and wear their pants round their ankles 24/7.

Dave

[Dave Rogers]

So that's why there's a thread on here about it. Because you are not scientifically minded.

If it took a significant amount of my time, I wouldn't bother. At the moment it's simply amusing. I'll be happy to ignore you if you'd prefer it. Just say the word.

Dave

[Drudgewire]

I trust Buzz Aldrin, the entire rest of the space program, and every bit of scientific evidence out there over one astronaut who wanted to perform psychic experiments on the flight and never met a woo he didn't like... and who has had 30 years to maybe snag one piece of physical evidence to convince us rather than just spouting craziness.

And I love it when someone stumbles in here and takes the world of a few crackpots over every bit of legitimate evidence to the contrary and then accuses the rest of the forum of being close-minded and gullible. It's sad of course, but in a hilarious sort of way.

[Alex Libman]

Yeah, it's my job here to find a way to blame the government for this, so, um, here are some Muse lyrics:

Open the skies over me
I am waiting patiently
I'll wait for a sign
As conspiracys unwind
Will you slam shut or free your mind?
Or stay hypnotized

When the Zetas fill the skies
Will our leaders tell us why
Fully loaded satellites
Will conquer nothing but our minds

I'm waiting patiently
And I'll wait for the sign

Carried through the centuries
Secrets locked up
Are loaded on my back
And it weighs me down

When the Zetas fill the skies
It's just our leaders in disguise
Fully loaded satellites
Will conquer nothing but our minds

I'm waiting patiently
And I'll wait for the sign
I'm waiting patiently
And I'll wait for the sign

-- Exo-Politics, BH&R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Holes_%26_Revelations)


:D

When the 9/11 and the "global warming" hysteria burns out and the powers that be need some other excuse to maintain and expand their grip on power, little gray men are not off the table... :covereyes

[albie]

Mitchell was born in Hereford, Texas.[1] He was active in the Boy Scouts of America where he achieved its second highest rank, Life Scout. He obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in industrial management from Carnegie Institute of Technology in 1952.[1] The following year he joined the US Navy where he trained as a pilot and flew off the aircraft carriers USS Bon Homme Richard and USS Ticonderoga. Later he qualified as a research pilot and taught at the navy's research pilot school. While in the Navy he obtained a Bachelor of Science degree in aeronautical engineering from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School and a Doctor of Science degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Mitchell

Does this guy sound stupid enough to be gullible? Probably smarter than most here. Who to be honest just cherry pick evidence to discredit as much as conspiracy theorists do. I've spent a year debunking conspiracy theories on several sites (all of whom I am now banned from) and the same mind set exists here with the opposing force.

It's really boring how close minded and unscientific some of you guys get.

I don't mind stuff like this being debunked. So long as you've actually done it.

[Drudgewire]

Does this guy sound stupid enough to be gullible? Probably smarter than most here.


So are most folks in the space program. Do you think every one of them is actively engaged in a cover-up except for one brave soul with a history of paranormal interests and nothing to back up his claims?


It's really boring how close minded and unscientific some of you guys get.

I don't mind stuff like this being debunked. So long as you've actually done it.


I don't mind stupidity on these forums, as long as... well, wait. I do mind stupidity on this forum. Welcome to ignore.

[albie]

"You first. Tell me about all these people you've met who can give cogent accounts of meetings with senior officers in the Pentagon and wear their pants round their ankles 24/7."

I've spoken with many nutters and not one of them retain their sense of reality for a few seconds. Not one would pass even a laymen's scrutiny. Apparently you think mad people can fool everyone around them. EVEN BEING FLOWN TO THE MOON. Passing the stringent pschological tests NASA would have conducted FREQUENTLY. They know what to look for. And apparently he is capable of founding an almost scientific foundation, despite the fact that he has delusions and hallucinations.
You find this likely.

No wonder you also think that seasoned NASA individuals with near top level security allowance would lie to Mitchell about aliens for a laugh.

I understand that you are fashioning your opinions of this subject on the spur, but come on. If I wasn't so disappointed I would probably laugh.

[albie]

"So are most folks in the space program. Do you think every one of them is actively engaged in a cover-up except for one brave soul with a history of paranormal interests and nothing to back up his claims? "

I think you underestimate the psychological hold such an environment like NASA would have on its workers.
Or the psyhcological deterrent such forums as these have on these workers when they DO come out and speak.

Look at you.

Have you signed the official secrets act? Have you found a high paid job at the heart of the government backed scientific community? No. At best you've got a job in admin in some office block.

Yet you try to fathom the mind sets of these people who are in the know. Arrogant and unconvincing. Don't get me wrong. I haven't been there either. We are as bad as each other. In the realm of theory though, we have no winners today.

[Architect]

Albie

If you want a debate on this, then the BAUT forum is the place for you. And I'm not being sarcastic or cheeky.

[albie]

"And I love it when someone stumbles in here and takes the world of a few crackpots over every bit of legitimate evidence to the contrary and then accuses the rest of the forum of being close-minded and gullible. It's sad of course, but in a hilarious sort of way. "

Legitimate evidence? Where? All you have is "he's a woo woo, look. Look at hiss woo woo foundation. HA! it's experimenting in stuff we don't believe in. HAHAH!"

Excuse me while I yawn my trousers off.

[albie]

Albie

If you want a debate on this, then the BAUT forum is the place for you. And I'm not being sarcastic or cheeky.

There's nothing to debate other than the bad logic used by folk here. The David Icke forum reeked of it too.

I'm no believer. I'm agnostic about everything until I have full proof. But that doesn't mean I laugh something off because it is fashionable to do so. Nor do I buy crystals and donate to psychic foundations.

[Dave Rogers]

I'm no believer. I'm agnostic about everything until I have full proof. But that doesn't mean I laugh something off because it is fashionable to do so. Nor do I buy crystals and donate to psychic foundations.

I was going to reply to this properly, but you're right. All this is so laughably pointless and absurd that it's not worth the time we're spending on it. Please feel free to keep on believeing what you choose to believe, under the guise of skepticism if you wish (although I think you should look up the meaning of "agnostic" some time), and I'll keep on finding you mildly amusing.

Dave

[albie]

Under the guise of skepticism?

Is that what you wear too?

The term agnostic is a flawed one. Anyone who is truly agnostic would never believe in anything even if he saw it.
Clearly function creep has given this term a more useful and sane one.

No, I am not function creep.

[albie]

Seems he's not the only NASA guy to blow his whistle.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/nasa_knows_ufos.htm

"Now comes another whistle-blower, one Clark C. McClelland, who says that for more than three decades he worked at NASA's launch facilities at Cape Canaveral and the Kennedy Space Center in Florida. During that time, he says, he saw plenty of evidence that NASA officials and employees were exposed to unexplainable and sometimes quite alarming UFO events. If McClelland is telling the truth, he could become one of the most significant UFO witnesses in recent memory. "

And yes, I'm aware NASA fired him. Although there seems to be no reason for his firing.

[Drudgewire]

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/nasa_knows_ufos.htm


© 1999 CNINews All Rights Reserved
7-21-99


:rolleyes:

[Drudgewire]

For those who don't read the front page, Randi deals with the Mitchell issue in today's SWIFT:

http://www.randi.org/joom/commentary/swift/swift-august-8-2008-2.html#i7

[gdnp]

I will remind you, albie, that contact with aliens is not the only "unconventional" belief held by Mitchell. I posted above a link to the Institute of Noetic Sciences which he founded. They have a list of educational materials (http://www.noetic.org/research/media.cfm) available to purchase. Here are some of the titles:

"Can Psi Be Learned?"
"The Implications of Psychic Abilities” by Russell Targ
“The Afterlife Experiments” by Gary Schwartz, PhD
“Research in Prayer & Distant Healing” by Elisabeth Targ, MD

Here is a link to the faq on their distant healing project (http://www.noetic.org/research/dh/faqs.html#WhatIs)(healing through prayer, etc)

Would you expect the skeptical community to take at face value the claims of a man who has founded an institute to study life after death, psychic abilities, and healing through prayer?

[tsig]

"You first. Tell me about all these people you've met who can give cogent accounts of meetings with senior officers in the Pentagon and wear their pants round their ankles 24/7."

I've spoken with many nutters and not one of them retain their sense of reality for a few seconds. Not one would pass even a laymen's scrutiny. Apparently you think mad people can fool everyone around them. EVEN BEING FLOWN TO THE MOON. Passing the stringent pschological tests NASA would have conducted FREQUENTLY. They know what to look for. And apparently he is capable of founding an almost scientific foundation, despite the fact that he has delusions and hallucinations.
You find this likely.

No wonder you also think that seasoned NASA individuals with near top level security allowance would lie to Mitchell about aliens for a laugh.

I understand that you are fashioning your opinions of this subject on the spur, but come on. If I wasn't so disappointed I would probably laugh.

Sorry we have all fell short of your expectations.

[tsig]

Albie

If you want a debate on this, then the BAUT forum is the place for you. And I'm not being sarcastic or cheeky.

He would have already have a warning if not banning at BAUT for the posts he has made.

[Beerina]

So a claim from what would be considered a reliable source exists. So we put on our critical hats and thing:

1. Ok, maybe see what he has to say

but also

2. We know such reliable witnesses can and do get mislead all the time. Also there's a financial corruption possibility adding to the mix, because in general it'll get you some talking head time. Thirdly, they can be confused more easily when older, and he's quite old.



Which theory to people want to bet will pan out? That expert people are known and documented to be duped, confused, or outright frauds? Or that there really are aliens, the government knows about them, and is keeping people silent (obviously not completely!)


Don't decide, keep both theories in your head and see which fits the facts better as they emerge. You be the judge, and don't just look for arguments that support the aliens and discount the counter-alien facts and theories, because that's far more exciting.


Something to ponder: Is there evidence? Or just claims of aliens and suppression of evidence by the government?