Cancer remissions rate?

[sorgoth]

I can't seem to find the average on google. Basically, what I'm looking for is the cancer remission rate for praying christians and that for nonreligious people. I'm engaged in a debate with someone, and trying to convince him that his priest is not some kind of Über doctor.

[Yahweh]

1. Make sure you bring up that prayer does not help (obviously).

2. Make sure you remind the person you are engaging in debate that the priest is anything but and Uberdoctor. In fact, that priest could be viewed as someone who is brainwashing innoncent people into neglecting actual medical care (which is bad, that causes people to die).

3. Tell you friend that praying/wishing cancer away does not work, neither do those alternative "touch" therapies, the only thing that ever works mainstream medicine (and possibly a little luck... Note: Prayer does not increase luck).

4. Make sure you remind your friend that it may be possible for cancer to natually go into remission without medice, but it is extremely rare and rather stupid to "have faith in yourself", odds are thinking like that will end in a good old fashion death.

5. Prayer + Mainstream Medicine = Results. However, dont be misled into believing the prayer had anything to do with the results, prayer is the equivelant of giving someone a "Get Well Card", it has no value at all.

6. To believe prayer cures people would be to undermine the world of Modern Medicine, it would be pretty willfully stupid, and it is extremely dangerous.


Information:

There are 3 tried and true treatments for cancer:
* Surgery (taking out the cancer)
* Radiation therapy (using high-dose X-rays or other high-energy rays to kill cancer cells)
* Chemotherapy (using medications to kill cancer cells)

Here is a WebMD article on Complementary Medicine:

The combination of conventional medicine and complementary medicine is sometimes called integrative medicine, in which conventional and complementary therapies work together for the best outcome [Note: This does not say integrative medicine produces and more positive or negative outcomes than strictly conventional, but I'm willing to bet one of the negative outcomes of intergrative medicine is needless workout of your bankaccount]. Some people use complementary therapies to maintain or optimize health and turn to traditional, proven treatments when a specific symptom or disease arises. Alternative medicine often implies a therapy used in place of conventional treatment.

(Source: http://my.webmd.com/content/healthwise/22/5385)


Here are a few other WebMD articles on Cancer: http://my.webmd.com/content/healthwise/71/17655
http://my.webmd.com/medical_information/condition_centers/cancer/default.htm

[Suezoled]

I'd say make sure this guy is praying over true cancer cases and not, say, fluid-filled cysts that heal in a matter of weeks.

[Zep]

Get him to diagnoses first, then get them confirmed (or otherwise) with an oncologist. See what the success rate is.

[Deetee]

You will never be sure that the irreligious/non-praying cancer patients do not have some relatives or friends or tribe of happy-clappers in a church somewhwere praying for them.

Therefore there is not valid control group. What you need is something like cancer remission rates in pets - see if the holy joes' pets survive longer than the other group (hardly anyone is going to ask a priest to pray for the recovery of their friend's cat)

[sorgoth]

I`m beggining to think it`s a lost cause. He believes in bible code, and when I tried showing him that, by making up a code on the spot, I could find _*The bible sucks*. He says that I`m "Doing it wrong." *sigh*

These miraculous cures happen all the time, yet, for some reason, no one ever thinks to bring a camcorder. I've become fairly convinced that NO ONE will change their mind based on what you say, if it's on the internet. You have to let people have some information, and let them decide for themselves...

Oh, and his arguments don't answer anything.

"Why don't we just worship Zeus, since he WAS there first?"

"Because it is a sin."

"Why is it a sin?"

"Because the bible, the word of God, tells us it is."


Now, we go in circles...ugh.