Steve Fossett

[Cuddles]

Not a completely nutty conspiracy theory, but there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence for it - it seems there are claims that Steve Fossett could have faked his own death (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/28/fosset_claims/). As far as I can tell this appears to be based entirely on two things - he had a life insurance policy and they haven't found his body. Be interesting to see where this goes though.

However, my favourite part is this, from someone involved with the search and rescue effort:
Fossett should have been found. It's not like we didn't have our eyes open. We found six other planes while we were looking for him. We're pretty good at what we do.
That's right, they're so good at what they do that they found six planes that they couldn't find the first time they tried.:rolleyes:

[RedIbis]

Why would Fosset fake his death for the insurance money? I'm sure he had plenty of money and wouldn't need to resort to this.

[Drudgewire]

Why would Fosset fake his death for the insurance money? I'm sure he had plenty of money and wouldn't need to resort to this.


Took the words right out of my mou... errrr... off my fingertips.

[Worm]

If he wanted to fake his death, a complete lack of evidence of what happened to him is not really a good way to go about it.

Although I suppose it's hard to leave some evidence without raising more questions?

[Acleron]

Why would Fosset fake his death for the insurance money? I'm sure he had plenty of money and wouldn't need to resort to this.

And how could he collect it?

'Oh hi, I'm Steve Fossett, I died and I claim my money.' :boggled:

[fuelair]

Not a completely nutty conspiracy theory, but there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence for it - it seems there are claims that Steve Fossett could have faked his own death (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/28/fosset_claims/). As far as I can tell this appears to be based entirely on two things - he had a life insurance policy and they haven't found his body. Be interesting to see where this goes though.

However, my favourite part is this, from someone involved with the search and rescue effort:

That's right, they're so good at what they do that they found six planes that they couldn't find the first time they tried.:rolleyes:How long ago were the crashes of the six planes they locate? Had "they" been specifically involved in those searches? Not saying the assumption is wrong, but curious.

[robeeb]

I was involved in a search a few years ago for a plane that was last seen over a heavily wooded area in northern New England. The search area was not very large, about 40 square miles give or take. The missing plane was a Stearman Biplane that was flying in to the local airport for an airshow. It took a couple of dozen searchers on the ground, and half a dozen aircraft 4 days to locate the wreck. I personally flew over the crash-site multiple times and didn't see it. The Stearman is not a huge aircraft, but it's not as small as your typical high-wing tricycle landing gear planes like a 172 or Tri-Pacer. It was bare polished aluminum with the original yellow painted areas like you would have seen on US Naval aircraft from that era. The search area for Fosset is absolutely huge compared to the Stearman search area. It's surprising how well simple heavy tree cover can hide things. In the end, the Stearman was located by searchers on the ground. I'm not surprised Fosset hasn't been found yet. One day, some hunter will find some remains and/or wreckage, and the mystery will be no more.

[theprestige]

Seems like a pretty straightforward scam to me, at least in principle: He and his beneficiary agree in advance to carry it out. The key point is to arrange a set of circumstances that will lead to the reasonable conclusion that he is dead, without having to produce physical evidence. The disappearance of a private plane in a wilderness area, for example. His beneficiary waits a decorous amount of time, and then applies for payout of the policy. The beneficiary keeps some of the money, and forwards the rest via some laundering process to Fossett.

Fossett, of course, must have some compelling reason for doing this. One possibility is that his financial situation was not as strong as it looked. He may have owed large debts to unforgiving creditors, for example, and decided it was easier to change his name and live off his life insurance policy,than pay off on those debts. Of course, in this case we would expect these hypothetical creditors to show up and collect their money from his beneficiary...

[applecorped]

I swear I saw him at an IHOP just yesterday. He had the grand slam breakfast. He looked hungry.

[theprestige]

I swear I saw him at an IHOP just yesterday. He had the grand slam breakfast. He looked hungry.

I saw him drinking a Pina Colada at Trader Vics. His hair looked perfect.

[Acleron]

Seems like a pretty straightforward scam to me, at least in principle: He and his beneficiary agree in advance to carry it out. The key point is to arrange a set of circumstances that will lead to the reasonable conclusion that he is dead, without having to produce physical evidence. The disappearance of a private plane in a wilderness area, for example. His beneficiary waits a decorous amount of time, and then applies for payout of the policy. The beneficiary keeps some of the money, and forwards the rest via some laundering process to Fossett.

Fossett, of course, must have some compelling reason for doing this. One possibility is that his financial situation was not as strong as it looked. He may have owed large debts to unforgiving creditors, for example, and decided it was easier to change his name and live off his life insurance policy,than pay off on those debts. Of course, in this case we would expect these hypothetical creditors to show up and collect their money from his beneficiary...


Perhaps for someone a little less known than Fossett, but there a few things that wouldn't ring true with this particular case.

Fossett was, to use a literary phrase, larger than life. Its difficult to see him become a recluse.

The best reason for discarding the CT theory is that Fossett was a consummate business man. I would bet that a) all his debts would not be personal and therefore he would not personally go bankrupt and b) even if a) was wrong he could become bankrupt and within a year or two be rich again.

[Drudgewire]

The best reason for discarding the CT theory is that Fossett was a consummate business man. I would bet that a) all his debts would not be personal and therefore he would not personally go bankrupt and b) even if a) was wrong he could become bankrupt and within a year or two be rich again.


Oh and c) the guy lived for publicity and would go crazy in 10 minutes away from the spotlight.

[theprestige]

Ironically, I never heard of him until his plane went missing, only ever formed the vaguest impression of him ("some rich guy with a plane, likes to fly it, disappeared in it"), promptly forgot about him as soon as they stopped reporting the search on my local NPR affiliate, and haven't heard or thought about him again until I stumbled across this thread earlier today.

All of which kind of undermines the argument that he was some epically larger-than-life figure who craved the limelight and had the wealth to make it his 24-7.

I mean, I know more about Warren Buffett and and John Denver, neither of which is half the man Steve Fossett is made out to be in this thread.

But another option is that he's had a sudden change of heart, and simply vanished into obscurity, having decided that he's tired of the limelight. Unless somebody here is claiming to know intimate details of his mindset? A man's public persona and private thoughts are two very different things, and history is full of men led in two different directions by the differences between their public and private lives.

Not, mind you, that I'm claiming anything other than that he's dead and simply hasn't been found yet.

[Hans]

This missing plane sounds like a perfect test for the remote view believers - dare I ask how they did?

Obviously no one found him so how bad were the misses?

[Plantfoam]

Ahh, the 'ole "crash" and collect the money trick. He took a page right out of Amelia's book.

[Cuddles]

How long ago were the crashes of the six planes they locate? Had "they" been specifically involved in those searches? Not saying the assumption is wrong, but curious.

In all fairness, I have no idea. Apparently you don't need to file a flightplan in Nevada, so it's entirely possible no-one even knew they were out there, or if they did that they had no idea exactly where they were. Whatever the case, I don't think it can cancel out the silliness of arguing "There were lots of things that no-one had ever found out there, so there can't possibly be something else we haven't found out there.".

As Robeeb says, as does Bill Bryson, light aircraft disappear all the time. It's not impossible to find them in conditions like this, but it's also surprisingly common for them to never be found, or to only be found many years later.

This missing plane sounds like a perfect test for the remote view believers - dare I ask how they did?

Obviously no one found him so how bad were the misses?

According to this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=92922), someone called Ed Dames remorely viewed the area, but I have no idea who that is or if anyone else tried. Somewhat surprising given how famous he is and how perfect this case would be for making up random crap that would likely never be proved wrong.

[TjW]

In all fairness, I have no idea. Apparently you don't need to file a flightplan in Nevada, so it's entirely possible no-one even knew they were out there, or if they did that they had no idea exactly where they were.

VFR in the US, you don't need to file a flight plan anywhere. Still, people think they knew roughly where he was going. But as others have pointed out, even that's not always enough.

[PhantomWolf]

Crashed Millonares seem to be hard to find (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/location/story.cfm?l_id=149&ObjectID=10356108)

[Reheat]

As has been pointed out, there is no requirement to file a VFR flight plan within the US.

Two factors contribute to the inability to find the wreckage.

1) Vast search area. It is sage brush, canyons, tumbleweed, and small trees. Mostly a sparsely populated desolate area. A small aircraft could easily escape detection.

2) Adding to the concealment factor, the aircraft he was flying is fabric covered with an aluminum frame. In case of a fire there would be little left and what little there might be could look very similar to a brush pile.

My guess is it may never be found, unless someone wanders upon it on foot.

[Reality Believer]

Seems that there is new life to the search! Question: Do pilots licenses carry a photo?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/01/fossett.discovery/

Hikers in California have found items that may belong to missing millionaire adventurer Steve Fossett, officials said Wednesday.

A weathered sweat shirt, cash and a pilot's license with Fossett's name were found Tuesday near Mammoth Lakes, police Chief Randy Schienle said. The license did not have a photo, he said.

"We're not certain that it belongs to Steve Fossett, but it certainly has his name on the ID," Schienle said.

[Drudgewire]

"We're not certain that it belongs to Steve Fossett, but it certainly has his name on the ID," Schienle said.


Now THAT'S skepticism. :cool:

[dudalb]

There are probably legal reasons why Schienle does not want to make the statement that it is Fossett's.
Probably waiting for the forensic tests to be done.
I know the area around Mammoth Lakes pretty well and it is really,really,rugged country.
A plane could easily crash and not be found for a while.

[Travis]

I've been to Mammoth Lakes many times and that is one place where a crashed plane would be hard to find.

[Reality Believer]

Now THAT'S skepticism. :cool:
It is not like people haven't faked evidence before. :rolleyes:

What are the odds that these hikers just HAPPEN to be hiking where his plane went down, and they just HAPPEN to find some apparent belongings that are CONVENIENTLY located near the crash. Too many coincidences I tell ya! :eek:

[Drudgewire]

It is not like people haven't faked evidence before. :rolleyes:

What are the odds that these hikers just HAPPEN to be hiking where his plane went down, and they just HAPPEN to find some apparent belongings that are CONVENIENTLY located near the crash. Too many coincidences I tell ya! :eek:


I actually agree with this. I'm proud of the guy for not jumping the gun, regardless of how solid the bullet appears at face value. :)

[TjW]

It is not like people haven't faked evidence before. :rolleyes:

What are the odds that these hikers just HAPPEN to be hiking where his plane went down, and they just HAPPEN to find some apparent belongings that are CONVENIENTLY located near the crash. Too many coincidences I tell ya! :eek:

I dunno. I was flying my hang glider over Devil's Canyon, a few years before it burned. It was covered in buckbrush about eight feet deep.
My wallet slipped out of my pocket. There was no way my wallet was going to be found, so I replaced it and everything in it.

Three months later, I got a call from the sheriff's office. Some Girl Scouts had been on a day hike, noticed my wallet, and turned it in. Go figure.

[Reality Believer]

The ID and other items seems to be legit. They are searching now.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=775_1222910976

[negativ]

I bet he found the hatch, and is currently typing 4-8-15-16-23-42 into the computer every 108 minutes.

[patchbunny]

I dunno. I was flying my hang glider over Devil's Canyon, a few years before it burned. It was covered in buckbrush about eight feet deep.
My wallet slipped out of my pocket. There was no way my wallet was going to be found, so I replaced it and everything in it.

Three months later, I got a call from the sheriff's office. Some Girl Scouts had been on a day hike, noticed my wallet, and turned it in. Go figure.

When I was monitoring dive crews working on the Richmond/San Rafael bridge in the San Francisco Bay, one of the divers found a purse on the bottom of the Bay. It had been chucked over the bridge railing by a thief who was fleeing police. The purse's contents were intact, so we were able to locate the owner.

So if all this stuff in obscure areas can be found, why can't I find my TV remote? :confused:

[patchbunny]

The ID and other items seems to be legit. They are searching now.

Looks like they found it. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26976119/)

[Travis]

Northwest of the Devils Postpile. That is some rugged country.

[dudalb]

Northwest of the Devils Postpile. That is some rugged country.

No crap.
Beleive me folks, a small plane could go down in that country and unless somebody happened to see it..not likely consdiering how small the population is....no one would have any idea a plane crashed in that vicnity until a backpacker or a hunter stumbled across it.
Or a film crew. A number of movies are made there because the country is beautiful, and it is one of the few really remote areas left within a day's travel of LA where you don't need to do much to erase all traces of civilization.

[dudalb]

BTW there is discussion going on the General Skepticism section about how this discovery proves Slyvia Brown to be wrong.....yet again.

[Reality Believer]

Northwest of the Devils Postpile. That is some rugged country.
Here are the coordinate for Google Earth fans:

37º39'32"N,119º07'32"W

Based on the FAA no-fly zone:
http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_8_1954.html

[Travis]

No crap.
Beleive me folks, a small plane could go down in that country and unless somebody happened to see it..not likely consdiering how small the population is....no one would have any idea a plane crashed in that vicnity until a backpacker or a hunter stumbled across it.
Or a film crew. A number of movies are made there because the country is beautiful, and it is one of the few really remote areas left within a day's travel of LA where you don't need to do much to erase all traces of civilization.

I was supposed to go on a backpacking trip up there back in August but the plans fell apart when I needed to get work done on my car instead. It was probably for the best because I'm not sure I would have been in good enough shape for that. I usually need a few less arduous trips to buildup some endurance for that kind of terrain.

[TjW]

When I was monitoring dive crews working on the Richmond/San Rafael bridge in the San Francisco Bay, one of the divers found a purse on the bottom of the Bay. It had been chucked over the bridge railing by a thief who was fleeing police. The purse's contents were intact, so we were able to locate the owner.

So if all this stuff in obscure areas can be found, why can't I find my TV remote? :confused:

It's my belief they have an instinct to crawl under sofa cushions to die.