Turn off internet..and 9-11 Truth disappears

[parky76]

I was without the internet for 9 days since I was in England and Wales. And an amazing thing happened....9-11 Truth..and pretty much all other conspiracy theories..vanished into thin air.

I went all over London, saw lots of protests including Falun Gong, anti-war, and a crazy English fellow who was preaching the bible in Trafalgar Square. But I saw no truthers. No one yelling about the NWO, chemtrails, or tv fakery.

What is life like without 9-11 truth or other conspiracies?

I tell ya...it is truly grand.

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet. That is...the pseudo-world, the non-world, the world of teenagers in their basemants.

[Par]

Whoh you tawkin abahh? You went ararhn old Lurndun did yer? Took in a bit uh ver seeneree did yer? Went rahn Leicester Squwayah? And nah you fink you knows what it’s all abahh does yer? This tarhn? This wurld? I should warn you son: if you get sucked intuh vis wurld, you’ll get sucked back ahhrt ver uvah side again. Nah mean? I’ll bloody strike yer misself.

[beachnut]

I was without the internet for 9 days since I was in England and Wales. And an amazing thing happened....9-11 Truth..and pretty much all other conspiracy theories..vanished into thin air.

I went all over London, saw lots of protests including Falun Gong, anti-war, and a crazy English fellow who was preaching the bible in Trafalgar Square. But I saw no truthers. No one yelling about the NWO, chemtrails, or tv fakery.

What is life like without 9-11 truth or other conspiracies?

I tell ya...it is truly grand.

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet. That is...the pseudo-world, the non-world, the world of teenagers in their basemants.
Can't be, with the massive increase at p4t from 30 pilots, to 50 in one year; you must of been stopped and asked to join! ?

[bje]

I went all over London, saw lots of protests including Falun Gong, anti-war, and a crazy English fellow who was preaching the bible in Trafalgar Square. But I saw no truthers. No one yelling about the NWO, chemtrails, or tv fakery.

Uh oh. Now you've let the cat out of the bag. Truthers will now descend on London in droves. They'll sully the streets, trash the lous, ruin the pubs, and spread The Plague everywhere. Oh, the humanity....!

[Walter Ego]

I was without the internet for 9 days since I was in England and Wales. And an amazing thing happened....9-11 Truth..and pretty much all other conspiracy theories..vanished into thin air.


The TM is pretty much dead in the main steam media. A few truthers might manage to get themselves arrested for 'confronting' Obama and McCain (as one did for at a Bill Clinton campaign appearance for Hilary a few months ago) but otherwise it's pffff... if Obama is elected... double pffff.

As I stated elsewhere, the recent BBC ‘Third Tower’ program is the last major attention the TM will receive from the MSM. The party’s over.

-

[Childlike Empress]

Seems like a win-win situation. Bye, Parky! Have a nice life! :w2:

[eromitlab]

The only public demonstrations of tr00th I've even heard of:
- a bumper sticker stuck on a traffic sign, last year
- a buddy telling me about a nimrod at this year's Bonnaroo holding up an inside job/jonesreport bumper sticker/sign

Teh twoof is dead, throw some lime on the corpse until the plastic FEMA coffins arrive.

[Grizzly Bear]

I was without the internet for 9 days since I was in England and Wales. And an amazing thing happened....9-11 Truth..and pretty much all other conspiracy theories..vanished into thin air.

I went all over London, saw lots of protests including Falun Gong, anti-war, and a crazy English fellow who was preaching the bible in Trafalgar Square. But I saw no truthers. No one yelling about the NWO, chemtrails, or tv fakery.

What is life like without 9-11 truth or other conspiracies?

I tell ya...it is truly grand.

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet. That is...the pseudo-world, the non-world, the world of teenagers in their basemants.


ditto... Albeit they have aired Zeitgeist and Terrorstorm on my university campus, and I stumbled into one of them while waiting for one of the architecture lectures last year.... there were a whole THREE PEOPLE in the entire room watching it though... after that... never saw more offline....

[T.A.M.]

It is so true. If the internet suddenly went down...forever, the truth "movement" would simply not exist, and a whole new generation of McDonald's employees would rise from mom's basement.

TAM;)

[Bobert]

This thread reminds me that I spend too much time thinking about 9-11 nutjobs.

[johnny karate]

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet.

And yet another thing 9/11 Truth has in common with many forms of deviant pornography.

[R.Mackey]

In Real Life, I've encountered any sign of the Truth Movement exactly three times.

First was a friend who believed in the "In Plane Sight" video. But in all fairness, he believes in virtually every brand of woo known to modern humans -- JFK, aliens at Area 51, weather machines run by the Yakuza, you name it. The Truth Movement is the only one of those things I was able to convince him was bunkum. That's kind of telling.

Second was two copies of Dr. Griffin's books in my local Vroman's. One was the copy I purchased to review, as you all know. I was kind of seeking them out for the purpose, so this should only get half-credit, perhaps.

Third was a lone handbill in San Francisco advertising for a major Truth Movement gathering in April of this year. One lonely little photocopied piece of paper. I understand the event itself, of which I saw no other sign during the weekend I was there, attracted something like 50 people. For comparison, I counted 80 people watching a street mime at the Powell Street BART station, simultaneous with this event.

Reality is not kind to the Truth Movement. However, in rising to meet its charges, I've learned a great deal, and I hope others have too. It was silly while it lasted.

[A W Smith]

I live in a state with a population density of 1174 residents per square mile and havent found one yet in three years.

[JamesB]

Actually, now that I think about it, I have never met an actual troofer in real life. The closest I have come was driving behind an SUV with an ad for Freedom to Fascism on the back window last weekend. Maybe they don't really exist...

Oh wait, I did video that one troofer at a Michael Shermer book signing, but then again I went to that book signing expecting that it would attract troofers. So I guess they are kind of like a rare species of animal, if you want to find one you have to put out bait.

[Tweeter]

This thread reminds me that I spend too much time thinking about 9-11 nutjobs.

Thats funny because its true.
And to the Op, please dont worry about the truth so much.
Its not healthy.

[Highly Selassie]

I wish I could avoid reminders of 9/11 truth. Unforunately, a (the?) lone truther took it upon himself to purchase hundreds of bumper stickers from prisonplanet.com and plaster them all over this city. One of these days, I'm going to track down each and every one of those stickers and tear them down.

By the way, in the hypothetical situation that I had this lone truther's license plate number, should I give it to the police? Or should I go through one of the property owners whose property was vandalized by these stickers?

[Mince]

Synthetic Revolution:

It involves their keyboard and computer chair and is conducted only because they know the government won't fight back against such nonsense. When the chance presents itself to actually revolt...i.e. not paying their taxes...when they know the government will fight back, they cower and comply.

[Rich M]

It's the Snakes on a Plane effect. Overhyped on the internet but translating to almost nothing in real terms. It's easy to be loud on the internet and convince yourself that people care, but real life? It's Snakes on a Plane, baby, snakes on a plane. Ron Paul was also Snakes on a Plane to a massive, hilarious degree.
In real life I vaguely know like two or three people who believe - well, everything. As long as what they're being told doesn't come from "the mainstream media" then it must be TRUE. Creationism. UFOs. Any conspiracy going. To be honest the second they started really believing this stuff was the day I started hanging out with them less.

[Par]

Due to a financial hiccough last year, I had to interrupt my life of leisure by taking some contract work in the UK. One day, one of the other fellows in the office jokingly mentioned the moon hoax conspiracy. This prompted someone else to say something like “You’re no one of these people whole believe that 9/11 was down to the CIA, are you?” My ears pricked up. This was the first I’d heard it as much as mentioned “in the wild”. After that solitary remark, the discussion moved on. But I was intrigued so I asked them what they had heard. One fellow said that he had seen something which pointed out that the collapses of the towers “looked like a demolition”, and another said he’d heard they were designed to withstand the punishment they took.

I hasten to add that none of them had taken what they had heard particularly seriously. So when I explained the facts behind the claims they cheerfully accepted them. Notably, when I pointed out that the collapses initiated from the crash-sites, their response was “errr… oh yeah!” as if they were kicking themselves for not having noticed something so obvious. A third fellow – as pleasant and liberal a chap as one could hope to meet – said he’d heard that Israeli companies had been forewarned about the attacks by Mossad, etc. I didn’t have to heart to tell him he’d been taken in by a piece of ultra-right anti-Semitism, so I just explained what I knew about the “Odigo Warning”, assuming that’s what he was referring to. To my surprise, the same fellow displayed a fairly complete knowledge of collapse initiation and only needed my help at one stage: the inward pull on the columns. That puts him head and shoulders above most truthers.

I should perhaps also mention the following: Around the time Fahrenheit 9/11 came out, I had a rather heated email debate with a work colleague of a personal friend. I had forgotten all about it until recently, when I dug it out and scanned over it again. One of his emails was suffixed with this:

Here’s some stuff Moore didn’t put in his film which he should have if he’d found the time:

The Taliban offered to give Bin Laden up to Pakistan and an international trial, if the US would show them evidence he was responsible for 9/11. This was reported in The Economist, I think it was. As usual the States played their strong suit (military action) and didn’t bother with their weak one (diplomacy and international law).
The plane which hit the Pentagon on 9/11 was brought down in a VERY sharp controlled descent, then pulled up to fly straight into the wall of the building. It actually took out the pylons across the street, that’show low it was when it levelled out. You CANNOT fly a plane like that with only civilian aircraft training, you HAVE to have had some military experience. Decide for yourself what this means.
The planes which were hijacked were off their pre-designated commerical flight course for an hour and a half before any military planes were up to find out why. The progress of commercial flights is constantly monitored, and if they go off course and fail to respond to questions why, military aircraft are supposed to be scrambled IMMEDIATELY to find out why. A presidential order is needed to shoot a plane down, but not to scramble the aircraft. Military planes are supposed to be in the air in MINUTES. This level of ‘no plane’ action is not incompetance, there must have been a general stand down order from someone. Again, decide for yourself what this means.


I knew nothing of these conspiracy theories at that point, and so I didn’t fully understand what he was getting at. In any event, this exchange was still “over the internet”, and I had never met the guy and nor have I since.
So I suppose “the truth”, as Tweeter likes to inform us, really is “out there” – just not that much of it.

[Drudgewire]

Turn off internet..and 9-11 Truth disappears


Yes, but so does the porn. What a dilemma.


Seems like a win-win situation. Bye, Parky! Have a nice life! :w2:


OK, that cracked me up. Nice one CE. :D

[timhau]

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet.

That's just so not true. I spent a week in New York City with my wife in late June/early July, and we once saw a twoofer in the Union Square subway station, down at the L train platform, trying to sell books, pamphlets, and DVDs. And he had a customer: he was excitedly explaining something to a guy who may not have been homeless but who at least had made an effort to look like it. Everyone else on the platform was a shill and kept their distance.

So there. The Truth lives on in the real world. It may not be as popular or as well-received as Jews for Jesus, subway mariachi bands or your run-of-the-mill panhandling, but for sufficiently vague definitions of 'alive', it's alive.

[dudalb]

I am betting the Twoofers have a major presence at Speaker's corner in Hyde Park on Sunday Afternoon, along with all the other nutcases.

[eddyk]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y6/eddyk2/100_5620.jpg

I snapped this guy in Leicester square (london) last summer.
He was handing out leaflets all on his own.

[LashL]

Turn off internet..and 9-11 Truth disappearsYes, it seems accurate to say that the "truth" movement is far more prevalent on the Internet than it is in real life.

I've been on vacation for the last week and a half and have taken the opportunity to visit the cottage for a couple of days here and there. I have no Internet service at the cottage, but plenty of fresh air, sandy beach, friends, neighbours, socializing and fun.

And nary a word, nor hide nor hair of anything even remotely connected to the "truth" movement. In real life, it appears to be non-existent in my home city and in the city where I work, as well.

[eromitlab]

To be fair, 9/11 CTs come up with regularity at work. Myself and a few co-workers will mention CD or thermite for some quick lulz.

The 9/11 truth movement is an inside joke!

[Tweeter]

Yeah emoitlab talking about how thousands getting killed is quite funny, isnt it? Even if the truth is wrong, how can anything that day be considered comical? Maybe add a few joos or nwo`s and you`ll have everyone falling down laughing. I find NOTHING about this whole subject funny.

Please keep it civil.

[Drudgewire]

Yeah emoitlab talking about how thousands getting killed is quite funny, isnt it? Even if the truth is wrong, how can anything that day be considered comical? Maybe add a few joos or nwo`s and you`ll have everyone falling down laughing. I find NOTHING about this whole subject funny.


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3899667#post3899667


http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/orly.jpg


You really are the most entertaining troll we have here, but false sanctimony is beneath even you.

[funk de fino]

Yeah emoitlab talking about how thousands getting killed is quite funny, isnt it? Even if the truth is wrong, how can anything that day be considered comical? Maybe add a few joos or nwo`s and you`ll have everyone falling down laughing. I find NOTHING about this whole subject funny.

You would never guess that from your smart mouth, content free, posting history?

That was the biggest hypocritical post I have seen.........ever

[GregHouseMD]

I work in a very, very busy cardroom in a Tribal Casino near Dallas, Texas. I interact with hundreds of people a day and hear all sorts of connversations taking place.

I have yet to hear anyone discuss 9/11 as a conspiracy, in over 2/1/2 years.

I hear political discussions with all sides being well represented. Opinions on taxes, Hilary, Obama, Bill, W, occasionally Michael Moore (in not very nice terms, does no one like him?)

Sex parties, underground card games, just about everything under the sun comes up and gets talked about.

Never "The Truth".

[Btodd]

My only experience in the real world is:

1. My cousin got into it through Loose Change. I watched the film at his house, and then we spent the rest of the weekend in perpetual debate. That's actually what got me into 'debunking' 9/11 conspiracies, among other woo (I already spent time on religion and had for years). I'm happy to say that he seems to have let go of it, but it might be the fact that I show him no mercy when it comes up. Unfortunately, he still believes in several other forms of woo, and is still especially prone to conspiracy theories.

2. At a local convenience store, I noticed some pamphlets on the counter, advertising a big event in Dallas regarding Income Tax Conspiracies, in which Tom Cryer (noted tax-denier) was speaking. It also had 9/11 Truth conferences scheduled at the same event. I called the owner of the store, and she had no idea what they even were. She was equally offended, and threw them in the trash.

I really can't think of any other circumstance, other than running into David Ray Griffin books at Barnes & Noble.

[TheRedWorm]

Welcome to the forum, Dr. House! BTW, I know of one semi-twoofer IRL, but he is a very good friend, so he knows not to discuss the topic around me.

[deep]

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet. That is...the pseudo-world, the non-world, the world of teenagers in their basemants.


Are you suggesting that 400+ architects & engineers who support a new investigation are teenagers living in basements? Are the 200+ PhDs who support a new investigation are also teenagers living in basements?

Also, once you cut yourself off from the global data communications backbone, also known as the Internet, what other "silly ideas" ceased to exist in your mind? Comic book conventions? Malaysian food? Antarctica? Blatantly obvious logical fallacies?

Interestingly enough, when I stop coming to this forum, pathological skeptics cease to exist.

[deep]

Oh, and I almost forgot - according to that Scripps poll back in 2006, one-third of Americans suspect a 9/11 government conspiracy. Do they all live in basements as well?

[DGM]

Are you suggesting that 400+ architects & engineers who support a new investigation are teenagers living in basements? Are the 200+ PhDs who support a new investigation are also teenagers living in basements?

Also, once you cut yourself off from the global data communications backbone, also known as the Internet, what other "silly ideas" ceased to exist in your mind? Comic book conventions? Malaysian food? Antarctica? Blatantly obvious logical fallacies?

Interestingly enough, when I stop coming to this forum, pathological skeptics cease to exist.
Why don't you use this vast amount of knowledge to actually prove something? I'll answer for you, Because all "truthers" are full of [rule 10]. For the love of God wake up and realize your "movement" is a pathetic joke. Shut off your internet and your world disappears.

WAKE UP THE WORLD IS LAUGHING AT YOU!

[Tweeter]

The whole world knows of the Truth.
"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"

[deep]

Shut off your internet and your world disappears.


Then, turn off your television and stop reading the newspaper -- all of a sudden the entire world "disappears". What exactly are you suggesting?

[JimBenArm]

I thought the twoofers were just an AI experiment that went very wrong...

[TheRedWorm]

Then, turn off your television and stop reading the newspaper -- all of a sudden the entire world "disappears". What exactly are you suggesting?



I think (and DGM can correct me if I am wrong) that he is implying that you are a keyboard warrior. That your involvement in the so called "truth" movement consists of little more than debating on the internet, and maybe occasionally buying a DVD or two. He also seems to be saying that you are not alone in this, and that many if not most "truthers" rarely if ever do anything about their so called evidence save post on internet forums.

[OldTigerCub]

Are you suggesting that 400+ architects & engineers who support a new investigation are teenagers living in basements? Are the 200+ PhDs who support a new investigation are also teenagers living in basements?

It has been suggested (and proven, IIRC) that the numbers you cited above referring to AE911 have been greatly exaggerated and padded with fictitious members as well as members who have no background or education related to architecture or engineering. More than 6 years and they still can't legitamately find that 1000 they are after.
Considering that this guy runs the organization:

http://c.imagehost.org/0789/Animation2.gif

it does some damage to the credibility of their research methods.



Also, once you cut yourself off from the global data communications backbone, also known as the Internet, what other "silly ideas" ceased to exist in your mind? Comic book conventions? Malaysian food? Antarctica? Blatantly obvious logical fallacies?

Interestingly enough, when I stop coming to this forum, pathological skeptics cease to exist.

Pathological sceptics?

:dl:

[AZCat]

It has been suggested (and proven, IIRC) that the numbers you cited above referring to AE911 have been greatly exaggerated and padded with fictitious members as well as members who have no background or education related to architecture or engineering. More than 6 years and they still can't legitamately find that 1000 they are after.

More importantly, AE911Truth has failed to produce any credible arguments so far. Others within the "Truth Movement" have done so (Gregory Ulrich, for example) but apparently 400 architects and engineers isn't enough to save 9/11 truth.

[cisco]

The only Trooth I've come across offline was on a "first Friday" artwalk near downtown Phoenix. An old guy in a little cardboard booth with [very poorly] handmade signs, rife with misspellings. He looked homeless. Had he not been so pathetic I might have stopped and confronted him. I just kept walking, though, and apparently so did everyone else. NO ONE was at his booth.

[AZCat]

The only Trooth I've come across offline was on a "first Friday" artwalk near downtown Phoenix. An old guy in a little cardboard booth with [very poorly] handmade signs, rife with misspellings. He looked homeless. Had he not been so pathetic I might have stopped and confronted him. I just kept walking, though, and apparently so did everyone else. NO ONE was at his booth.

About two years ago signs (both handmade and printed) started popping up around the university and downtown here in Tucson. I'm surprised ASU didn't experience the same fad.

[eromitlab]

To be fair, 9/11 CTs come up with regularity at work. Myself and a few co-workers will mention CD or thermite for some quick lulz.

The 9/11 truth movement is an inside joke!

Yeah emoitlab talking about how thousands getting killed is quite funny, isnt it? Even if the truth is wrong, how can anything that day be considered comical? Maybe add a few joos or nwo`s and you`ll have everyone falling down laughing. I find NOTHING about this whole subject funny.

Oh, hey Tweeter. I was starting to worry that you were going to disappear before you answered my question (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3902619&postcount=50) about the "whole countries questioning the OS".

Anywho, you just don't get it. The movement of which you are ostensibly a part? You're the punchline of the inside jokes, because your "movement" is exactly that... a joke, a pathetic joke that in nearly seven years has proven nothing and achieved nothing except to show what kind of deceptive and unintelligent persons one can be if they really try.

Thanks also for butchering my screenname, btw... I'm sure that was accidental. If you imagine me as some emo kid, then you can feel better about yourself now, can you?

[DC]

a few weeks ago i was siting together with a group of ppl i didnt know, 8 ppl, somehow somebody brought up 9/11. ony 1 of the 8 belived the official story. the rest was sure the towers was imploded.
was a funny discusion.

[funk de fino]

a few weeks ago i was siting together with a group of ppl i didnt know, 8 ppl, somehow somebody brought up 9/11. ony 1 of the 8 belived the official story. the rest was sure the towers was imploded.
was a funny discusion.

Funny? [Edited for civility]

Personal attacks and name calling are not allowed under the membership agreement.

[DC]

Funny? [Edited for civility]

yes it was indeed funny to listen to him while he tryed to defend the OCT, he gave up quickly

[funk de fino]

yes it was indeed funny to listen to him while he tryed to defend the OCT, he gave up quickly

Not as quick as you with the 911 fantasy movement non theory

[DC]

Not as quick as you with the 911 fantasy movement non theory

oh you was there? or how would you know?

[funk de fino]

oh you was there? or how would you know?

No, on here. I see your non theory, tap dance, avoiding answering questions MO quite clearly here. I could imagine it would be no different in person.

Maybe you would make a little more sense in your own language instead of the non sensical use of english you display here though.

[juryjone]

yes it was indeed funny to listen to him while he tryed to defend the OCT, he gave up quickly

Oh, so you and your buddies were able to easily demolish the official story within a few minutes. So you must have done the same here. Could you please point me to the thread where you post the evidence necessary to promote an alternative theory? Something with figures and calculations?

I'm sure you have such posts within the 2500 posts you've made in the past few months. A cursory glance at your posts, however, shows no calculations and a plethora of "lol".

I'm very interested in how you got this fellow to give up quickly. Was it because he was shouted down with a lot of "OMG!!!1!! You think the government never lies to us?!?! What a shill!" Or was it a reasoned discussion?

[DC]

Oh, so you and your buddies were able to easily demolish the official story within a few minutes. So you must have done the same here. Could you please point me to the thread where you post the evidence necessary to promote an alternative theory? Something with figures and calculations?

I'm sure you have such posts within the 2500 posts you've made in the past few months. A cursory glance at your posts, however, shows no calculations and a plethora of "lol".

I'm very interested in how you got this fellow to give up quickly. Was it because he was shouted down with a lot of "OMG!!!1!! You think the government never lies to us?!?! What a shill!" Or was it a reasoned discussion?

well it was a grownup fiscusion, maybe OMG111 stuff is how you talk to others, it didnt happen :) it was friendly and calm. no namecalling.

btw him giving up and geting him convinced are diffrent things :)

[TheRedWorm]

Well, it is difficult to discuss something with a person who only responds to questions with: "I don't know, that's why we need a new investigationtm!!!"

[Shalamar]

I've run into couple truthers. My boss is one.. I don't bother talking to him about it.

Another is at one of my costumers, a TV station. I haven't met the person, but I see a couple loose change CD's, and a lot of print outs from prison planet. This is at a Media Site! I have the urge to write 'You work at a TV STATION! Tell them the 'truth'! So far, the Station hasn't broadcast anything.

I really wonder why the truthers want the inside job to be real. I prefer to look at the evidence, which shows that planes crashed into 2 buildings, causing them to fall (with damage to surrounding buildings). They don't seem to look at what they are saying.

[mrbaracuda]

I'm sure you have such posts within the 2500 posts you've made in the past few months. A cursory glance at your posts, however, shows no calculations and a plethora of "lol".

Sometimes I wonder: Is he really Oliver?
And then I turn off the internet and he is gone.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

a few weeks ago i was siting together with a group of ppl i didnt know, 8 ppl, somehow somebody brought up 9/11. ony 1 of the 8 belived the official story. the rest was sure the towers was imploded.
was a funny discusion.

Interesting that you use the words "ppl I didn't know" as if it meant the same as "randomly sampled from the voting public".

Can I ask where you were when you sat down with these people you didn't know? If you were sitting down, for example, in a trendy coffee shop next door to an anarcho-socialist book store, do you think that would impact the make up of your "sample"?

If I went to Michelle Malkins website (http://michellemalkin.com/) or Little Green Footballs (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/) and polled 100 people I don't know from the regular commenters and reported back to you that not a single one of them believes in your ********, would you accept that as a meaningful result?

Please do not circumvent the autocensor.

[dudalb]

Can I ask where you were when you sat down with these people you didn't know? If you were sitting down, for example, in a trendy coffee shop next door to an anarcho-socialist book store, do you think that would impact the make up of your "sample"?

Bingo. I think you have got it.
People who are really into radical politics tend to hang out with other radicals,where then can reinforce their opinions. This gives them a very,very, skewed view of reality.
Radicals alwlays vastly over estimate their numbers.

[deep]

It has been suggested (and proven, IIRC) that the numbers you cited above referring to AE911 have been greatly exaggerated and padded with fictitious members as well as members who have no background or education related to architecture or engineering.


So where's this proof you're referring to, then? Let me guess, you made the arbitrary decision that all legitimate architects & engineers have their own web page, and you found a few AE911Truth members who don't have one?


Pathological sceptics?


Yes, that's you, and almost every other debunker I've encountered here in the JREF forum.

Pathological skeptics are unmistakable, because their arguments rely on name-calling, character assassination, general intellectual dishonesty, circular reasoning, dehumanization of those who disagree with them, and hard-lined hostility.

They act as if their beliefs are guided by science, but they really are just a mirror of majority opinion.

---I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives. -Tolstoy

[Drudgewire]

Pathological skeptics are unmistakable, because their arguments rely on name-calling, character assassination, general intellectual dishonesty, circular reasoning, dehumanization of those who disagree with them, and hard-lined hostility.


I swear, if I plan to continue visiting this forum I'm going to have to start buying irony meters by the gross. :(

[deep]

By the way, it sounds like "pseudoskepticism" is a more widely-accepted name for what I previously referred to as "pathological skepticism" (or at the very least, they are similar).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism

- "Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence" (e.g., squibs were caused by compressed air in the building, molten metal seen by dozens of people at GZ was aluminum, etc.)

- "Double standards in the application of criticism" (e.g., the peer-review requirement, demand for calculations, etc.)

...the list goes on, and on, and on.

[T.A.M.]

By the way, it sounds like "pseudoskepticism" is a more widely-accepted name for what I previously referred to as "pathological skepticism" (or at the very least, they are similar).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoskepticism

- "Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence" (e.g., squibs were caused by compressed air in the building, molten metal seen by dozens of people at GZ was aluminum, etc.)

- "Double standards in the application of criticism" (e.g., the peer-review requirement, demand for calculations, etc.)

...the list goes on, and on, and on.

by your above definition, SQUIBS = Pseudoskepticism, Molten Metal at GZ was Molten Steel - Pseudoskepticism

So what is your point. The entire truth "movement" and all of their theories, ALL, are based on what you have labeled Pseudoskepticism.

TAM:)

[T.A.M.]

Lets take a look at a quote from your wiki link....


Truzzi attributed the following characteristics to pseudoskeptics:

* The tendency to deny, rather than doubt [4]
* Double standards in the application of criticism [5]
* The making of judgments without full inquiry [6]
* Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate [7]
* Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments[8]
* Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.'[9]



* Presenting insufficient evidence or proof [10]
* Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof [11]
* Making unsubstantiated counter-claims [12]
* Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence [13]
* Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for dismissing it

Hmmmm...I have bolded the ones that truthers use repeatedly.

TAM:)

[deep]

by your above definition, SQUIBS = Pseudoskepticism, Molten Metal at GZ was Molten Steel - Pseudoskepticism

So what is your point. The entire truth "movement" and all of their theories, ALL, are based on what you have labeled Pseudoskepticism


There are dozens of eyewitnesses who reported seeing molten steel, and there are zero witnesses who reported seeing molten aluminum.

Explosive "squibs" are a characteristic of controlled demolition, or more specifically, a side-effect of using explosives. There's no proof that "compressed air explosions" are even possible in that scenario.

More importantly, the two counter-claims mentioned above are presented as "proof" that the original claim is not true: There were no explosive squibs, because the bursts were caused by compressed air. There was no molten steel at GZ, because it was molten aluminum.

A large portion of 9/11 debunking seems to follow that same pattern - propose a counter-claim based only on its perceived plausibility (while completely ignoring probability), and use that to "debunk" the original claim.

[TheRedWorm]

* Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.'[9]

Or: 'Shill', 'Sheeple', 'Bush-loyalist', 'disinfo', etc.?

[T.A.M.]

There are dozens of eyewitnesses who reported seeing molten steel, and there are zero witnesses who reported seeing molten aluminum.

I will grant you that there are testimonies from people, TOTALLY NOT QUALIFIED TO DETERMINE what metal they saw molten, who called it "Steel" I am sure there are others who called it metal...so which is it? who knows.


Explosive "squibs" are a characteristic of controlled demolition, or more specifically, a side-effect of using explosives. There's no proof that "compressed air explosions" are even possible in that scenario.

No what you have had are experts testify (such as those in PM) that the "outward going smoke entities" were likely the result of compressed air. There is no proof of demolition. No one has claimed to have caused the towers to collapse from CD, therefore squibs are without proof. I could say it was the result of a leprachaun fart...as much proof for it as for squibs.


More importantly, the two counter-claims mentioned above are presented as "proof" that the original claim is not true: There were no explosive squibs, because the bursts were caused by compressed air. There was no molten steel at GZ, because it was molten aluminum.

The squibs are a counter claim. They are part of a claim to counter the official account. They are part of a counter claim that the towers did not come down by planes and fires, but rather CD.

Likewise, the molten steel are part of a counter claim that the towers were brought down using Thermite.


A large portion of 9/11 debunking seems to follow that same pattern - propose a counter-claim based only on its perceived plausibility (while completely ignoring probability), and use that to "debunk" the original claim.

You have the Gall to talk about ignoring probability? This from a member of a movement that claims "Thermite", "Space beams from outerspace", "Real Time Voice Morphing", are all what really happened on 9/11...give me a break.

TAM:)

[deep]

Or: 'Shill', 'Sheeple', 'Bush-loyalist', 'disinfo', etc.?


Yes, there's no doubt that your truther stereotype makes those comments all the time, but show me where Richard Gage, Steven Jones, or any of the other prominent members of the truth movement have said those things. They don't.

The moderators of this forum could even comment on this - almost every time I come here, I report at least one debunker for engaging in some form of name-calling (sometimes three or four, like today).

[T.A.M.]

I have NO DOUBT, that the truthers reported for the same, as a percentage of the entire number of truthers here, is far greater...

TAM:)

[Tweeter]

Oh, hey Tweeter. I was starting to worry that you were going to disappear before you answered my question (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3902619&postcount=50) about the "whole countries questioning the OS".

Anywho, you just don't get it. The movement of which you are ostensibly a part? You're the punchline of the inside jokes, because your "movement" is exactly that... a joke, a pathetic joke that in nearly seven years has proven nothing and achieved nothing except to show what kind of deceptive and unintelligent persons one can be if they really try.

Thanks also for butchering my screenname, btw... I'm sure that was accidental. If you imagine me as some emo kid, then you can feel better about yourself now, can you?

The country was Japan. I tend to exaggerate sometimes so lmaybe i shouldnt of said "whole".

[Tweeter]

a few weeks ago i was siting together with a group of ppl i didnt know, 8 ppl, somehow somebody brought up 9/11. ony 1 of the 8 belived the official story. the rest was sure the towers was imploded.
was a funny discusion.

I have had the same experience. What the debunkers fail to grasp is.. sure theres only a few thousand "truthers" that will be outspoken and express their feelings in public, but theres millions that have questions but wont let it be known publically.

[applecorped]

Why? What are they hiding?

[applecorped]

Yes, there's no doubt that your truther stereotype makes those comments all the time, but show me where Richard Gage, Steven Jones, or any of the other prominent members of the truth movement have said those things. They don't.

The moderators of this forum could even comment on this - almost every time I come here, I report at least one debunker for engaging in some form of name-calling (sometimes three or four, like today).

How about shillple or Bushfo? It's new so it can't be offensive!

[Mince]

Resident truthers and apprehensive lurkers;

If the U.S. Government's killing of 3,000 of its own citizens was only enough to get you to flock to message boards (like sheep, BTW), what will it take for you to feel really threatened and take meaningful action? Why are you here trying to convince an insignificant individual like me instead of convincing someone who might actually be able to affect change? Your words and your actions don't make sense. Could you reconcile them for me?

[DGM]

Then, turn off your television and stop reading the newspaper -- all of a sudden the entire world "disappears". What exactly are you suggesting?
By "your world" I mean the twisted "truther" reality you seam to believe in. You know the world where you're guilty until proven innocent. Where you can accuse people of anything you want and feel no need to provide any real evidence to substantiate your accusations. You know, throw the constitution out the door because it doesn't apply if your "truthy" enough.

THAT TWISTED WORLD

[johnny karate]

The country was Japan. I tend to exaggerate sometimes so lmaybe i shouldnt of said "whole".

Or maybe you should have just told the truth and said "one member of Japanese legislature".

ETA: Also, it's "shouldn't have" not "shouldn't of". It really undercuts the credibility of an argument if the one making it displays a slow-witted fourth grader's grasp of grammar.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Or maybe you should have just told the truth and said "one member of Japanese legislature".


Oh, pssh... Words are such an imprecise form of communication. I mean, just look how easy it is for someone to confuse "one person" with "whole country"; they share many of the same letters and there's only a difference of 3 letters in length!

[Dr Adequate]

By the way, it sounds like "pseudoskepticism" is a more widely-accepted name for what I previously referred to as "pathological skepticism" (or at the very least, they are similar). Let's look at some of those "pseudoskeptics" and contrast them with some Real Proper Skeptics, shall we?

---

Real Proper Skeptics believe in UFOs even though they are "short of any kind of proof" (http://www.ufoskeptic.org) : I propose that true skepticism is called for today: neither the gullible acceptance of true belief nor the closed-minded rejection of the scoffer masquerading as the skeptic. One should be skeptical of both the believers and the scoffers. The negative claims of pseudo-skeptics who offer facile explanations must themselves be subject to criticism... There is another aspect to the UFO phenomenon that involves politics and secrecy rather than observational evidence. I do not currently have a ticket to any SCI program, but over the years I have gotten to know individuals who for one reason or another would be aware of the existence of relevant black programs... The above is, of course, short of any kind of proof, but all in all I have now gotten to the point in my exposure to the subject at which I think it somewhat more likely than not that something not merely delusional, but real and important may be going on with regard to the UFO phenomenon.

Real Proper Skeptics believe that "confusing memories" prove that you've visited another universe (http://glenavalon.com/otherworlds.html) : Join us in a brave foray into the unknown and uncharted realms of parallel universes. Prepare yourself for a trek, not to outer or inner, but to adjacent space.

Will we find Eden? Lands of Magic? Our heart's desire? Or will we find worlds just like our own? Some of us may have already visited other universes - the evidence may be confusing memories - improbable places or people we have seen. Can we observe these parallel universes? Have we observed them? Can we travel between them? What kind of device would we need? What energy barriers would we encounter and have to overcome? Is there a shortcut between the worlds? Does quantum consciousness hold a key?

ASIDE TO PSEUDOSKEPTICS: Please don't bother. We are talking subjective experience here and trying to derive clues to what is happening. These things occurred - they happened to us - no amount of skepticism or psychobabble on your part will convince us otherwise.

Real Proper Skeptics believe that the "Face On Mars" is evidence of a lost Martian civilization, but that NASA is hushing it up (http://www.mactonnies.com/imperative38.html) : If the "Face" and/or other features test positively for artificiality, this discovery promises to be the most explosive we have ever encountered. The Cydonian Imperative advocates completely open disclosure of any findings that would tend to bear out the Artificiality Hypothesis. I am troubled by NASA's demonstrated refusals to comply with scientific method and acknowledge the work of independent researchers.

The Cydonia inquiry is not trivial, pseudoscientific, or dismissable. On the contrary, the enigmas on the Martian surface (and perhaps elsewhere in the Solar System) challenge our conceptions of planetary and genetic selfhood. We cannot afford to miss this potentially transformative opportunity...

It is interesting that this image, withheld from public inspection, depicts the Face in its entirety. Such accuracy tends to suggest that acquiring high-resolution images of the Face is not only easier than NASA/MSSS would have the public believe, but that NASA has an abiding interest in studying the Cydonia region. The reasons for the space agency's near-silence on the Cydonia issue, in light of the image above, are far from trivial...

Skeptics groups rail against "pseudoscience." But perhaps the time has come for independent thinkers, armed with real knowledge as opposed to false preconceptions, to begin questioning the agenda behind pseudoskepticism.

Real Proper Skeptics believe that John Edward can talk to the dead (http://www.near-death.com/experiences/skeptic09.html) : One of the most famous psychic mediums in this country is John Edward who performs readings before a live audience on television. His impressive abilities suggests that he may actually be communicating with the dead. pseudo-skeptics claim that John Edward is a master of reading body language to elicit information. But, Edward often does phone readings and sometimes readings where he cannot even see the subject... pseudo-skeptics claim that questionnaires and bugging devices help producers learn about deceased family members... Concerning bugging devices, the show's producer replied, "Of course there's microphones, but are they being fed anywhere, no. And John doesn't see any of this."

Real Proper Skeptics believe that crop circles... or "at least some of them" were created by "Non-Human Intelligence" (http://www.suppressedscience.net/crops.html) : If Nickell and Fischer had examined that question, they would have found that their four arguments for hoaxing are perfectly compatible with the hypothesis that crop formations, or at least some of them, are created on purpose by a non-human intelligence (NHI), such as extraterrestrials or spiritual beings... Proper skepticism must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Unfortunately, much of what comes out of the "skeptical" community these days is not proper skepticism, but all-out, fundamentalist disbelief. Such skepticism can be called pseudo-skepticism, pathological skepticism or bogus skepticism.

Real Proper Skeptics believe that Uri Geller has magical powers over cutlery (http://www.uri-geller.com/mindbending.htm) : Some historians believe Jesus Christ was born on December 20th. Perhaps the first unusual event of Uri's life was that he was born on the same day, although some time later, in 1946 to be exact. Coincidence? Maybe, but a portent perhaps of the shape ( or shape-shifting ) of things to come.

Uri says that he first became aware of his mindpower at the age of four. He was eating, when the fork he was using bent and snapped. His mother, a member of the Freud family, was not surprised at his ability and nurtured his childhood accordingly. It was this acceptance, rather than denial, which enabled his self belief. A belief, Uri says, is inherent in all children, it is social conditioning which creates the denial...

When I spoke with Uri, he told me that he still meets with scientists and accepts the positive motive behind scientific discovery, it seems it is the adversarial 'pseudo skeptics' which Uri has washed his hands with...

Real Proper Skeptics believe that they can debunk the Big Bang without actually knowing any physics; and also in alien visitors, ghosts, ESP, Bigfoot... (http://www.geocities.com/wwu777us/Debunking_Skeptical_Arguments.htm) : These ordinarily sound scientific platitudes are used as the ultimate "get out of jail free" cards for pseudo-skeptics who have no answers to inconvenient questions. Let's examine Sagan's assertion that "extrarordinary" claims require "extraordinary" evidence. The problem with this statement is that popular science does not require extraordinary evidence for its extraordinary claims. Big Bang theory may be the most extraordinary claim in the history of popular science. Here we have an idea that can be neatly encapsulated in eight words: "At first, there was nothing...then it exploded." But how can NOTHING explode? Big Bang theory "defies gravity" and violates innumerable laws of physics, it remains a HYPOTHETICAL mathematical model, yet it is promoted as truth by NASA and institutions of higher learning around the world. Why has the mainstream never demanded the same standards of Big Bang theorists that it does of "paranormal" proponents?

Where are the "double-blind tests" validating Big Bang theory? Has Big Bang theory been tested by JREF or other skeptical organizations?

Real Proper Skeptics think that mediums can catch terrorists despite the fact that this has never happenned (http://www.victorzammit.com/articles/terrorism.html) : I am presenting an issue which hitherto has NOT been part of the procedure of crime detection training.

One has to ignore the entrenched negativism of the closed minded skeptics (or as Professor C T Tart calls them 'pseudo-skeptics') They are defeatists and I submit they are a danger to national security for retarding or preventing professional investigation of psychic phenomena.

Law enforcement agencies ought to obtain the services of highly gifted psychics - not the run of the mill commercial ones, but those who can pass empirical tests for repeatable accuracy. There may be at least four or five in each country who ought to be regarded as absolute 'pure gold.' These would be hard to find as the truly gifted ones keep a very low, non-commercial, very private profile...

Two gifted psychic mediums would be required - one of them a trance-medium. Usually, the mediums bring others with them to give them psychic energy support. One of the mediums will be in a position to communicate with the terrorist's 'attachment.' This will be done while the other trance-medium goes into trance and allows the terrorist's 'attachment' to use the voice box of the second medium.

Real Proper Skeptics believe everything they hear, plus everything they make up (http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina40326.htm) : Fortunately, not every one is pseudo skeptic. We have also many true skeptics... It is said that even Hitler had some psychic powers (I just heard this and do not know the details of it). If true, this does not mean that everything this monster did was right or conversely, his crimes against humanity do not nullify his psychic ability... We know that thoughts are vibrations. These vibrations are what make the electroencephalograph machine (lie detector) work. Vibrations are created by particles. In quantum physics time breaks down and becomes irrelevant. So is it possible that your thoughts work in times that have not yet occurred? If true, this would explain how we dream things that come to pass later, telepathy, premonition, remote viewing and other psychic claims... This proves that healing comes from within and is triggered by our brain. In fact all healing come from our brain. All what drugs do is, trigger the defense mechanism of the body by stimulating the brain to release the endorphins and other chemicals that would heal the body... Belief is a powerful human faculty. If we can tap into this, we can basically heal our selves at will...The pseudo skeptics with materialistic persuasion are not after science or truth. They are promoting a religion based on materialism. There is nothing scientific, nothing logical and nothing rational about their belief. They are believers in a dogma that is contrary to human reason and observable facts... Islam presents itself as a religion. This, of course is not true.

---

Do you like the company you're in?

[uk_dave]

Let's look at some of those "pseudoskeptics" and contrast them with some Real Proper Skeptics, shall we?

[snip]

Do you like the company you're in?

Pah!! All of those examples were cunningly created by the 'powers that be' in order to discredit the well thought out and rational whining by Deep44.
:D

[Jonnyclueless]

Are you suggesting that 400+ architects & engineers who support a new investigation are teenagers living in basements? Are the 200+ PhDs who support a new investigation are also teenagers living in basements?

Also, once you cut yourself off from the global data communications backbone, also known as the Internet, what other "silly ideas" ceased to exist in your mind? Comic book conventions? Malaysian food? Antarctica? Blatantly obvious logical fallacies?

Interestingly enough, when I stop coming to this forum, pathological skeptics cease to exist.

The sad part being that you actually believe there are 400+ architects and engineers supporting a new investigation. Oh right, a 9/11 cult tabloid said so.

[Jonnyclueless]

Oh and I have never ever seen a single person outside of interweb forums preaching 9/11 Woo.

[funk de fino]

I have had the same experience. What the debunkers fail to grasp is.. sure theres only a few thousand "truthers" that will be outspoken and express their feelings in public, but theres millions that have questions but wont let it be known publically.

Secret movement? A bit like the NWO then?

I would like some proof of your claim of course

[funk de fino]

The country was Japan. I tend to exaggerate sometimes so lmaybe i shouldnt of said "whole".

Oh ye, that stupid politician? Hardly the whole country is it?

[eromitlab]

The country was Japan. I tend to exaggerate sometimes so lmaybe i shouldnt of said "whole". There's the understatement of the year. One member of the Japanese Diet, out of 722, probably doesn't speak for the whole country.

[dudalb]

There's the understatement of the year. One member of the Japanese Diet, out of 722, probably doesn't speak for the whole country.


Every national legislasture has it's nutjobs. Ron Paul for instance.

[Drudgewire]

Every national legislasture has it's nutjobs. Ron Paul for instance.


And Japan has had quite a few. For instance, this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atsushi_Onita).

Now I love Onita, in fact I named my cat after him. But when a guy who calls himself "lie" for awhile gets voted in you can expect a few other interesting characters to be governing along with him.

[WhatWouldZeusDo]

And Japan has had quite a few. For instance, this guy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atsushi_Onita).


Onita's still relatively sane when it comes to Japanese wrestler/politicians, compared to some of the stories about Antonio Inoki. At least there are no stories floating around about Onita buying an island from Fidel Castro that has pirate treasure buried on it.

Edit: Or using New Japan profits to create a perpetual motion machine.

[Drudgewire]

Indeed. And let's not forget Great Sasuke who wouldn't remove his mask (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3003979.stm) when he started his political career. :D

[Comsat Angel]

Reciprocally, I noticed something similar to parky, but in the USA. I have been there for 14 days, without internet access. New Jersey, New York, San Fransisco, San Jose, Oakland and finally Portland; no trace of 9/11 Truth anywhere, and given my interest in the subject I'd expect to notice things the average tourist might not. No posters, no graffiti, no protesters, no leaflets, no stickers. A big fat nothing as far as Teh Twoof is concerned - though I did notice a Ron Paul poster in Portland (far outnumbered by Obama posters though!)

[timhau]

Reciprocally, I noticed something similar to parky, but in the USA. I have been there for 14 days, without internet access. New Jersey, New York, San Fransisco, San Jose, Oakland and finally Portland; no trace of 9/11 Truth anywhere

If you're still in or still headed to New York, go check out the L train platform at the Union Square subway station. Earlier in the summer there was a Twoofer peddling DVDs and pamphlets there. The easiest way to find him is to see if there's a space the commuters are trying to avoid; somehow he always found himself in the middle of it.

[Roboramma]

I now more then ever believe that 9-11 truth and other silly ideas are 100% only alive in the world of the internet. That is...the pseudo-world, the non-world, the world of teenagers in their basemants.

Well, I recently stayed with a friend, at a place where he has three roommates. The guy who owns the house (who is one of the roommates), has the DVD Loose Change and is quite impressed with it.
After I'd found myself a place to stay while I'm in town for a few months (leaving in two days, though), another of my friend's friends came in to town and stayed with them for a few weeks.
This fellow is a 40ish year old who lives in Thailand and Nepal most of the year, and is an avid troother.
He also believes just about every other conspiracy theory known to man - the Federal Reserve is run by an evil cabal, one time when we were all out hiking he pointed to an airplane passing overhead and started talking about the government dumping chemicals on us, etc. etc.

Run in the right circles and you'll run in to these kinds of ideas a lot.
Frighteningly often.

[Alex Libman]

In the Soviet Union it was the same - turn off the underground press and only listen to the mainstream media, and suddenly Stalin is a saint...

[TheRedWorm]

Welcome to the forum, Mr. Libman.

[Drudgewire]

In the Soviet Union it was the same - turn off the underground press and only listen to the mainstream media, and suddenly Stalin is a saint...


Great analogy. Good thing the election cycle is coming up and our mainstream media's long love affair with the current administration will finally be over.

[Alex Libman]

I don't see Bush or Obama as being any different from each-other (or any other politician with a possible exception of Ron Paul). Different advertising campaigns for roughly the same product.

[Drudgewire]

I don't see Bush or Obama as being any different from each-other (or any other politician with a possible exception of Ron Paul). Different advertising campaigns for roughly the same product.


Regardless, comparing the press here with that in old skool Russia isn't just a leap, it's a rocket car off a ramp.

[Alex Libman]

Ask a Soviet citizen, and he'll tell you the same thing in reverse. After all, according to him, the American press is owned by the evil capitalists and their government cronies, while the Soviet press is owned by the people. :eye-poppi :rolleyes:

[Drudgewire]

Ask a Soviet citizen, and he'll tell you the same thing in reverse. After all, according to him, the American press is owned by the evil capitalists and their government cronies, while the Soviet press is owned by the people. :eye-poppi :rolleyes:


Again, the point you were making was without "alternative press" (and lets not even get into the laughable idea anything in the twoof movement could be considered "the press") there's no stifling of dissent.

My point is the mainstream press is NOTHING BUT DISSENT for this administration.

[Whiplash]

Interestingly enough, when I stop coming to this forum, pathological skeptics cease to exist.

Please, do demonstrate. Take as long as you need.

[technoextreme]

In Real Life, I've encountered any sign of the Truth Movement exactly three times.


I would say the number of times I've encountered the truth movement or saw signs of them amounts to the double digits. *sigh* Fortunately, almost all of the encounters amount up to petty vandalism with the worst occurence is seeing DRG's book in Borders.

[Alex Libman]

My point is the mainstream press is NOTHING BUT DISSENT for this administration.

Yes, that's the game that western countries have learned to play, but in reality the two big socialist parties (Reps and Dems) are more harmonious with each-other than some fractions of the Chinese Communist Party. (Not that I have anything but contempt for the CCP either.) It's just as fake as professional wrestling, only less muscular.

[funk de fino]

Ask a Soviet citizen, and he'll tell you the same thing in reverse. After all, according to him, the American press is owned by the evil capitalists and their government cronies, while the Soviet press is owned by the people. :eye-poppi :rolleyes:

Not the ones I speak to a lot.

[Drudgewire]

Yes, that's the game that western countries have learned to play, but in reality the two big socialist parties (Reps and Dems) are more harmonious with each-other than some fractions of the Chinese Communist Party. (Not that I have anything but contempt for the CCP either.) It's just as fake as professional wrestling, only less muscular.


And that has NOTHING to do with the press being a tool of the government. How can that not sink in?


(or any other politician with a possible exception of Ron Paul)


Never mind. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

[Alex Libman]

Not the ones I speak to a lot.

The next time you're in 1950's Soviet Union, could you pick up some of them chocolate-covered waffles they used to make? ;)


How can that not sink in?

My capacity for independent thought?

[Drudgewire]

Mmmmm, commie waffles. :drool:

[dudalb]

If you're still in or still headed to New York, go check out the L train platform at the Union Square subway station. Earlier in the summer there was a Twoofer peddling DVDs and pamphlets there. The easiest way to find him is to see if there's a space the commuters are trying to avoid; somehow he always found himself in the middle of it.

So the classic Bill Cosby routine about how the New York Subway System entertains it riders by making sure there is a Nut on every car is still true?

[dudalb]

The next time you're in 1950's Soviet Union, could you pick up some of them chocolate-covered waffles they used to make? ;)




My capacity for independent thought?

You mean you capacity for ignoring reality when it disagrees with your ideology.
But then, you are a Paulista and that is SOP for them.

[funk de fino]

The next time you're in 1950's Soviet Union, could you pick up some of them chocolate-covered waffles they used to make? ;)

Next time you want to use Argument by Tardis at least inform people you are trolling.