9/11 and the 1919 Chicago Black Sox World Series Conspiracy

[Galileo]

9/11 and the 1919 Chicago Black Sox World Series conspiracy
8/1/2008

By Rolf Lindgren and Dr. Kevin Barrett

To many, a large conspiracy involving unthinkable actions cannot happen. And if it could, the people involved would never get away with it, especially if they seem too incompetent to pull it off. But the 1919 Chicago Black Sox scandal is proof that this is not true.

*snip*

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98742

References:

The major source for this article is the book Eight Men Out; The Black Sox and the 1919 World Series by Eliot Asinof, especially chapters I and II;

http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Men-Out-Black-World/dp/0805065377

The book has also been made into a movie, with Charlie Sheen playing Happy Felsh, Studs Terkel playing Hugh Fullerton, and Michael Rooker playing Chick Gandil. Edd Roush visited the movie set shortly before his death (the movie does not follow the book exactly on details):

http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Men-Out-20th-Anniversary/dp/B0010YSD90/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Wikipedia Version of the Black Sox Scandal

http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

1919 Chicago White Sox Statistics

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1919.shtml

Rolf Lindgren is a 9/11 Truth Activist from Middleton, Wisconsin, and is a WTC 7 Expert. He works as a Loan Officer and holds a bachelor’s degree in Mathematics from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He was the Polling Director for the Michael Badnarik and Aaron Russo presidential campaigns in 2004, and is a long-time member of the Libertarian Party. Rolf is a defender of Galileo and James Madison.

Dr. Kevin Barrett is a candidate for Congress in Wisconsin's 3rd District running on a "peace and truth" platform. He has taught languages, literatures, and religious studies at several colleges and universities. For information suggesting that 9/11 was an even more elaborate and outrageous conspiracy than the Black Sox scandal, visit http://www.barrettforcongress.us

http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=132547

Please do not violate Rule 4: You will not post "copyright-protected1" material in its entirety, including "hotlinking2" to images or other media. I have cut the article and left the links.

[Everything]

Okay.

e: vvvv Just wanted you to know someone read it. :)

[Galileo]

Okay.

scooby snack?

[Mongrel]

Only professional boxing, horseracing, college football, and the Olympics, provided any competition at all to baseball’s dominance in the sporting world

And Americans wonder why we think you guys are insular :p

[defaultdotxbe]

so a conspiracy surrounding an insignificant event (compared to 9/11) was exposed within a year, without the aid of youtube or the internet

seems to highlight the truth movements ineptitude fairly well, dont you think?

[SDC]

What the heck is the point of all that? Please explain. I actually think it is mere trolling.

[Galileo]

so a conspiracy surrounding an insignificant event (compared to 9/11) was exposed within a year, without the aid of youtube or the internet

seems to highlight the truth movements ineptitude fairly well, dont you think?

never got exposed. Since the players were acquitted, the official story was that there was no conspiracy. The book this article is based on wasn't written until over 40 years later. The players were kicked out for associating with gamblers, not for any conspiracy.

[Foolmewunz]

never got exposed. Since the players were acquitted, the official story was that there was no conspiracy. The book this article is based on wasn't written until over 40 years later. The players were kicked out for associating with gamblers, not for any conspiracy.

So the affrontery of fixing a baseball game (series of games) is now akin to murdering three thousand people?

I wouldn't have thought it possible given the vast number of areas where you've evidence a lack of knowledge, but you've now given us another.

Baseball.

You know nothing about baseball. The "official" reason for banning was "Association With Known Gamblers" (I paraphrase)... That's because that's all they could rely on having sufficient evidence to prove in a courtroom. Sort of like later convicting known organized crime bosses for tax evasion. Get it? Except it wasn't a conviction; it was a rule violation.

Anyone over the age of twenty who isn't aware of the story behind this is just intentionally obtuse.

It is also rather doubtful that one could prove that not winning a baseball game was actually a crime. It's just a game, after all. You'd have to actually prove that they were intentionally throwing the game. Otherwise, how many times could we sue Barry Bonds for not running out a deep fly ball? (That's when the ball is hit deep, in the air [or 'on the fly'].) It's all rather figurative, isn't it?

In 1919, organized crime, as such, was not thought to be a threat. Many people knew of or knew directly someone involved in gambling. The audacity of throwin the Series was because everyone thought it was untouchable and that baseball players were minor deities. But was it even a crime? Could they have arrested them? Since gambling was illegal, throwing a game shouldn't matter in the eyes of the law. Not Trying Hard isn't in the statutes, as far as I know. Even having proof from others involved in the deal, all they could get them on was baseball rules infractions, and even those were dubious, at best. They were banned by common consent of the "old boys network" that ran the game.

[CptColumbo]

Associating is a way to say they conspired without opening yourself to a libel charge.

Judge Landis was MLB's first commisioner, and demanded very broad powers that included automomy from the owners (which is why I hated when Bud Selig was named commisioner). He didn't need to prove they were guilty in a court before they were banned, he just did it. You will find he banned more people then any other commisioner to date.

[SDC]

So the point is that since there was a conspiracy to throw the 1919 World Series, among some players and gamblers, that therefore we should believe that 9/11 was an inside job conspiracy, among the Bush admin, and maybe Mossad or whoever else?

That's it? Sheesh. Where is that quote about the "dumbest conspiracy in the history of ever," or whatever it was.

[Donal]

So, several players kicked out of baseball, Joe Jackson prevented to this day from entering the Hall of Fame, several other members of the conspiracy (the money men) skip the country, a new position in baseball is created (commissioner), and new laws involved with throwing a game are passed, and you think there were no consequences?

Why not take a look at the gambling scandals at City College of New York and Arizona State? Small groups of guys that couldn't keep out of trouble.

[dudalb]

What a stupid comparasion.
Yeah, a plot of throw a baseball game involving maybe a dozen players is comparable to a plot to kill thousands which would have involved hundreds of people in the know. Brilliant, guy,
Someone is really getting desperate.
BTW for a good,accurate movie on the Black Sox scandle, I strongly recommend "Eight Men Out".

[Galileo]

9/11 and the 1919 Chicago Black Sox World Series conspiracy
8/1/2008

By Rolf Lindgren and Dr. Kevin Barrett

To many, a large conspiracy involving unthinkable actions cannot happen. And if it could, the people involved would never get away with it, especially if they seem too incompetent to pull it off. But the 1919 Chicago Black Sox scandal is proof that this is not true.

*snip*

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98742

References:

The major source for this article is the book Eight Men Out; The Black Sox and the 1919 World Series by Eliot Asinof, especially chapters I and II;

http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Men-Out-Black-World/dp/0805065377

The book has also been made into a movie, with Charlie Sheen playing Happy Felsh, Studs Terkel playing Hugh Fullerton, and Michael Rooker playing Chick Gandil. Edd Roush visited the movie set shortly before his death (the movie does not follow the book exactly on details):

http://www.amazon.com/Eight-Men-Out-20th-Anniversary/dp/B0010YSD90/ref=pd_sim_b_1

Wikipedia Version of the Black Sox Scandal

http://en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sox_Scandal

1919 Chicago White Sox Statistics

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/1919.shtml

Rolf Lindgren is a 9/11 Truth Activist from Middleton, Wisconsin, and is a WTC 7 Expert. He works as a Loan Officer and holds a bachelor’s degree in Mathematics from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He was the Polling Director for the Michael Badnarik and Aaron Russo presidential campaigns in 2004, and is a long-time member of the Libertarian Party. Rolf is a defender of Galileo and James Madison.

Dr. Kevin Barrett is a candidate for Congress in Wisconsin's 3rd District running on a "peace and truth" platform. He has taught languages, literatures, and religious studies at several colleges and universities. For information suggesting that 9/11 was an even more elaborate and outrageous conspiracy than the Black Sox scandal, visit http://www.barrettforcongress.us

http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=132547

Please do not violate Rule 4: You will not post "copyright-protected1" material in its entirety, including "hotlinking2" to images or other media. I have cut the article and left the links.

This is NOT copyrighted material! This was a press release. Politicians don't copyright their press releases, nor is any claim of copyright made on the site. No wonder you people are so inconsistent when it comes to conspiracy theories.

[Galileo]

So, several players kicked out of baseball, Joe Jackson prevented to this day from entering the Hall of Fame, several other members of the conspiracy (the money men) skip the country, a new position in baseball is created (commissioner), and new laws involved with throwing a game are passed, and you think there were no consequences?

Why not take a look at the gambling scandals at City College of New York and Arizona State? Small groups of guys that couldn't keep out of trouble.

Chick Gandil made more money off the conspiracy tax free, than he'd make in ten years of playing. Crime paid. The other players all made at least 2 1/2 their annual salaries, plus what they made gambling, plus they played the 1920 season as well. Most reports assume they continued to throw games in 1920 and made untold thousands more.

[Galileo]

So the affrontery of fixing a baseball game (series of games) is now akin to murdering three thousand people?

I wouldn't have thought it possible given the vast number of areas where you've evidence a lack of knowledge, but you've now given us another.

Baseball.

You know nothing about baseball. The "official" reason for banning was "Association With Known Gamblers" (I paraphrase)... That's because that's all they could rely on having sufficient evidence to prove in a courtroom. Sort of like later convicting known organized crime bosses for tax evasion. Get it? Except it wasn't a conviction; it was a rule violation.

Anyone over the age of twenty who isn't aware of the story behind this is just intentionally obtuse.

It is also rather doubtful that one could prove that not winning a baseball game was actually a crime. It's just a game, after all. You'd have to actually prove that they were intentionally throwing the game. Otherwise, how many times could we sue Barry Bonds for not running out a deep fly ball? (That's when the ball is hit deep, in the air [or 'on the fly'].) It's all rather figurative, isn't it?

In 1919, organized crime, as such, was not thought to be a threat. Many people knew of or knew directly someone involved in gambling. The audacity of throwin the Series was because everyone thought it was untouchable and that baseball players were minor deities. But was it even a crime? Could they have arrested them? Since gambling was illegal, throwing a game shouldn't matter in the eyes of the law. Not Trying Hard isn't in the statutes, as far as I know. Even having proof from others involved in the deal, all they could get them on was baseball rules infractions, and even those were dubious, at best. They were banned by common consent of the "old boys network" that ran the game.

believe it or not, more people in this country care about baseball than care whether a few thousand odd people get murdered. This apathy has allowed Bush and Cheney to so far escape justice.

[Drudgewire]

This would be a great analogy if the White Sox needed the help of the FBI, fire department, the President of the United States and thousands of seemingly honest people with nothing to gain in order to flub a few ground balls.

Instead, it takes stupid to spectacular new heights.

[Galileo]

This would be a great analogy if the White Sox needed the help of the FBI, fire department, the President of the United States and thousands of seemingly honest people with nothing to gain in order to flub a few ground balls.

Instead, it takes stupid to spectacular new heights.

Asinof exposed the Black Sox conspiracy in 1961. Griffin exposed the 9/11 conspiracy in 2004.

[SDC]

Asinof didn't "expose" anything. He wrote an excellent historical study drawing on generally available material.

Griffin didn't "expose" anything, either. He wrote a load of speculative horse puckey. Over and over again.

Really, this is silly. G., can't you come up with anything better than this?

[Galileo]

Asinof didn't "expose" anything. He wrote an excellent historical study drawing on generally available material.

Griffin didn't "expose" anything, either. He wrote a load of speculative horse puckey. Over and over again.

Really, this is silly. G., can't you come up with anything better than this?

BS - the public knew virtually nothing about the 1919 Black Sox until his book came out. Asinof went and interviewed a bunch of the old players to find out what really happened.

[CptColumbo]

This would be a great analogy if the White Sox needed the help of the FBI, fire department, the President of the United States and thousands of seemingly honest people with nothing to gain in order to flub a few ground balls.

Instead, it takes stupid to spectacular new heights.The FBI was the BoI prior to (IIRC) 1935.

[Drudgewire]

Asinof exposed the Black Sox conspiracy in 1961. Griffin exposed the 9/11 conspiracy in 2004.


Actually, the penalties started being handed out in 1920 and there were two confessions by the end of that year. So you were only off by 41 years, which is still more accurate than the stuff you usually post.

[Galileo]

Actually, the penalties started being handed out in 1920 and there were two confessions by the end of that year. So you were only off by 41 years, which is still more accurate than the stuff you usually post.

the confessions were never made public and were lost during the trial. Jackson's was bogus, as he did not have the mental capacity to know what he was signing.

A confession kept secret from the public exposes nothing. You're just upset that the 9/11 conspiracy is starting to unravel.

[Marquis de Carabas]

BS - the public knew virtually nothing about the 1919 Black Sox until his book came out. Asinof went and interviewed a bunch of the old players to find out what really happened.
Read the book Saying It's So: A Cultural History of the Black Sox Scandal, which traces the constant fascination with this scandal in America from the time it happened until today (well, 2003, actually, when the book was published). The Black Sox have never been out of the national consciousness.

[CptColumbo]

Read the book Saying It's So: A Cultural History of the Black Sox Scandal, which traces the constant fascination with this scandal in America from the time it happened until today (well, 2003, actually, when the book was published). The Black Sox have never been out of the national consciousness.
Like most things that involve the TM you need to make a movie about it before they believe it is valid or recognized.

"Print is dead."-- Dr. Egon Spengler

[Drudgewire]

You're just upset that the 9/11 conspiracy is starting to unravel.


That must be it. To borrow a baseball phrase, you're really batting a thousand today.

http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/rollbarf.gif

[Galileo]

Read the book Saying It's So: A Cultural History of the Black Sox Scandal, which traces the constant fascination with this scandal in America from the time it happened until today (well, 2003, actually, when the book was published). The Black Sox have never been out of the national consciousness.

yea, but the courts exonerated all the players, not to mention the gamblers.

[PhantomWolf]

the confessions were never made public and were lost during the trial. Jackson's was bogus, as he did not have the mental capacity to know what he was signing.

A confession kept secret from the public exposes nothing. You're just upset that the 9/11 conspiracy is starting to unravel.

And yet there were trials over the affair in 1920 and after those 8 players got life bans. How did this manage to be kept from the public? Oh yeah, it wasn't. More lies from the Liar Movement.

[Galileo]

And yet there were trials over the affair in 1920 and after those 8 players got life bans. How did this manage to be kept from the public? Oh yeah, it wasn't. More lies from the Liar Movement.

your just a conspiracy theorist. you think the 1919 world series was a conspiracy, even though the federal courts say otherwise. commissioner mountain Landis was a conspiracy theorist as well. next thing, you'll be telling me 9/11 was a conspiracy!

[PhantomWolf]

So it's just a theory that the 8 players were banned for life for fixing games?

[Drudgewire]

So it's just a theory that the 8 players were banned for life for fixing games?


Only up until 1961, when it was exposed for the first time. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/eng101.gif

[CptColumbo]

commissioner mountain Landis was a conspiracy theorist as well.According to who? He did what he thought would preserve the integrity of MLB and restore it in the minds of its disillusioned fans.

He then went on to also preserve the exclusion of players from the Negro Leagues and the reserve clause. The man had flaws, but he wasn't IMO a Conspiracy Theorist.

You seem to keep changing the point of the OP, especially when your "facts" are proven wrong.

[Galileo]

So it's just a theory that the 8 players were banned for life for fixing games?

they weren't banned for life for fixing gmaes, they were banned for "associating" with gamblers. Landis didn't have any more evidence of fixed games than the jury did. Landis was a cop out. He didn't do crap of a investigation.

[CptColumbo]

they weren't banned for life for fixing gmaes, they were banned for "associating" with gamblers. Landis didn't have any more evidence of fixed games than the jury did. Landis was a cop out. He didn't do crap of a investigation.It's a privately owned business, not a court of law.

[PhantomWolf]

Well see this is where I get confused over what Galileo's point actually is. The Players were tried the year after the fixing, and banned for life even though they got off. If the conspriacy wasn't exposed to some degree in 1920, why were they a) tried, and b) banned. If the conspriacy wasn't exposed until 1961 (after 4 were already dead) then why were they banned in 1920. This wasn't able to be kept secret at all, two of them confessed to the Grand Jury and whether or not those confessions were made public, they were still made. Pretty much the entire sordid affair was known about less than a year after it happened and action was taken, it wasn't like no one knew until 1961, so I'm lost, there is no comparason to a 9/11 conspiracy which has no evidence, no public support, no inditements, no grand juries, no confessions, and no action taken against those the TM claim did it.

[PhantomWolf]

they weren't banned for life for fixing gmaes, they were banned for "associating" with gamblers. Landis didn't have any more evidence of fixed games than the jury did. Landis was a cop out. He didn't do crap of a investigation.

Funny then that he said "Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball."

Why say that if he only banned them for associating with gamblers.

[Marquis de Carabas]

yea
Yea? So you admit that the public knew virtually nothing about the 1919 Black Sox until his book came out is utter crap?

[Galileo]

Funny then that he said "Regardless of the verdict of juries, no player who throws a ball game, no player who undertakes or promises to throw a ball game, no player who sits in confidence with a bunch of crooked ballplayers and gamblers, where the ways and means of throwing a game are discussed and does not promptly tell his club about it, will ever play professional baseball."

Why say that if he only banned them for associating with gamblers.

doublespeak. The statement does not assert they were kicked out for fixing games. Since they had just been found NOT GUILTY of fixing games, they couldn't be thrown out for fixing games, since they hadn't done that.

[Galileo]

It's a privately owned business, not a court of law.

presto! and private businesses do not have the authority to find people guilty of criminal charges.

[PhantomWolf]

doublespeak. The statement does not assert they were kicked out for fixing games. Since they had just been found NOT GUILTY of fixing games, they couldn't be thrown out for fixing games, since they hadn't done that.

So what you're saying is that even though he said he was banning them for fixing games regardless of the jury verdict, that he really wasn't banning them for fixing games because the Jury didn't find them guilty? Is that right?

[CptColumbo]

presto! and private businesses do not have the authority to find people guilty of criminal charges.They didn't. They essentially fired them.

[Galileo]

Well see this is where I get confused over what Galileo's point actually is. The Players were tried the year after the fixing, and banned for life even though they got off. If the conspriacy wasn't exposed to some degree in 1920, why were they a) tried, and b) banned. If the conspriacy wasn't exposed until 1961 (after 4 were already dead) then why were they banned in 1920. This wasn't able to be kept secret at all, two of them confessed to the Grand Jury and whether or not those confessions were made public, they were still made. Pretty much the entire sordid affair was known about less than a year after it happened and action was taken, it wasn't like no one knew until 1961, so I'm lost, there is no comparason to a 9/11 conspiracy which has no evidence, no public support, no inditements, no grand juries, no confessions, and no action taken against those the TM claim did it.

the people who pulled off the 9/11 attacks left a lot of clues, and got away with it, just like the Black Sox, both conspiratorial groups escaped justice because obvious clues were not followed up. When you have piles of circumstantial evidence, screw-ups and rumors, historians will determine that it was a conspiracy, regardless of what the official inquiries say.

[Galileo]

So what you're saying is that even though he said he was banning them for fixing games regardless of the jury verdict, that he really wasn't banning them for fixing games because the Jury didn't find them guilty? Is that right?

Did you read the article? It was a PR move. Nobody gave a rats ass if games were thrown, they just didn't want it covered in the newspapers.

[PhantomWolf]

Did you read the article? It was a PR move. Nobody gave a rats ass if games were thrown, they just didn't want it covered in the newspapers.

They didn't want it in the papers so they banned 8 players as a way of avoiding media publicity? Wow, I bet that master plan worked really well.

[Galileo]

They didn't. They essentially fired them.

that's BS. The players had a contract with Charlie Comiskey, not with Landis. Comiskey never fired them. In fact, he wanted them to stay on the team. Landis just broke contract law and got away with it and should be kicked out of the Hall of Fame. Jackson, Weaver, and Cicotte belong in the Hall, not Landis. They should kick Commie out as well.

[PhantomWolf]

the people who pulled off the 9/11 attacks left a lot of clues, and got away with it, just like the Black Sox, both conspiratorial groups escaped justice because obvious clues were not followed up.

The people that pulled off 9/11 did leave a lot of clues and are currently on trial.

When you have piles of circumstantial evidence, screw-ups and rumors, historians will determine that it was a conspiracy, regardless of what the official inquiries say.

Yeah and History will record that the 9/11 Truth Movement was the joke of the early 21st Century, if it bothers to even record it at all.

[Drudgewire]

Nobody gave a rats ass if games were thrown, they just didn't want it covered in the newspapers.


So we can add "sports" to the list of subjects you are not only ignorant about, but have no concept of whatsoever.

[Galileo]

They didn't want it in the papers so they banned 8 players as a way of avoiding media publicity? Wow, I bet that master plan worked really well.

do you know anything about PR? I doubt it, as you're winning over many here in this forum.

Kicking the players out was an attempt to look squeaky clean. If the players had been found guilty and then kicked out, it would have looked like they were just kicked out because they were found guilty. Landis was an arrogant pontificator.

[Galileo]

So we can add "sports" to the list of subjects you are not only ignorant about, but have no concept of whatsoever.

I'm a sports expert. Comiskey tried to cover up for his players so he could keep them. He didn't care if they threw games or not.

[PhantomWolf]

Landis knew like everyone else that the only reason that the players got off was because evidence went missing, evidence that subsequently turned up in the hands of one of the lawyers for the White Sox owner. He banned them because everyone knew they were guilty even if the standards for a guilty version by law weren't meet in court. "Not Guilty" does not mean "Innocent of all Charges" it means that there wasn't enough evidence to prove it, the reason there wasn't that evidence is because someone knicked it. Landis wasn't bound by the legal system to act, and did so.

The fact he did so means that the conspriacy to fix fgames was out in the open, pure and simply, you arguing a lost cause.

[PhantomWolf]

Comiskey tried to cover up for his players so he could keep them. He didn't care if they threw games or not.

Tried being the operative word. He tried and failed.

[Galileo]

The people that pulled off 9/11 did leave a lot of clues and are currently on trial.



Yeah and History will record that the 9/11 Truth Movement was the joke of the early 21st Century, if it bothers to even record it at all.

none of the people behind 9/11 are on trial. Have you heard of Dr. David Ray Griffin? He has written several books that prove 9/11 was an inside job.

btw

If the number of books on the specific facts of 9/11 is any indication, history will end up backing the 9/11 Truth movement.

Books for the official story:

2

9/11 Commission Report
Popular Mechanics Debunking 9/11 Myths

Books for an Inside Job:

12

9/11 Contradictions
Debunking 9/11 Debunking
9/11 Commission Errors and Ommissions
Christian Faith & the Truth About 9/11
9/11 and Empire, Volume 1 (Griffin)
9/11 and Empire, Volume 2 (Barrett)
The Terror Conspiracy (Marrs)
Crosssing the Rubicon (Rupert)
9/11 Synthetic Terror (Tarpley)
The Terror Timeline (Thompson)
The Road to 9/11 (Scott)
The War on Truth

You are losing the battle of History!

[Drudgewire]

I'm a sports expert. Comiskey tried to cover up for his players so he could keep them. He didn't care if they threw games or not.


You're out of your mind if you think anyone involved in sports doesn't think fixing games is worse than getting caught fixing games. You can rape someone and your teammates will support you, but betraying their trust is something you never come back from.

[Galileo]

Tried being the operative word. He tried and failed.

He succeeded in keeping them during 1920, and helped them get a not guilty verdict.

[Galileo]

Landis knew like everyone else that the only reason that the players got off was because evidence went missing, evidence that subsequently turned up in the hands of one of the lawyers for the White Sox owner. He banned them because everyone knew they were guilty even if the standards for a guilty version by law weren't meet in court. "Not Guilty" does not mean "Innocent of all Charges" it means that there wasn't enough evidence to prove it, the reason there wasn't that evidence is because someone knicked it. Landis wasn't bound by the legal system to act, and did so.

The fact he did so means that the conspriacy to fix fgames was out in the open, pure and simply, you arguing a lost cause.

great. That's why most people think Dick Cheney was behind the 9/11 attacks as well, even if he gets off in the court system.

[Drudgewire]

none of the people behind 9/11 are on trial. Have you heard of Dr. David Ray Griffin? He has written several books that prove 9/11 was an inside job.

btw

If the number of books on the specific facts of 9/11 is any indication, history will end up backing the 9/11 Truth movement.

Books for the official story:

2

9/11 Commission Report
Popular Mechanics Debunking 9/11 Myths

Books for an Inside Job:

12

9/11 Contradictions
Debunking 9/11 Debunking
9/11 Commission Errors and Ommissions
Christian Faith & the Truth About 9/11
9/11 and Empire, Volume 1 (Griffin)
9/11 and Empire, Volume 2 (Barrett)
The Terror Conspiracy (Marrs)
Crosssing the Rubicon (Rupert)
9/11 Synthetic Terror (Tarpley)
The Terror Timeline (Thompson)
The Road to 9/11 (Scott)
The War on Truth

You are losing the battle of History!


:dl: :dl: :dl:

Everyone knows 9/11 isn't a CT, so there aren't going to be books that continue to come out.

But the con men know there will always be marks to buy their garbage, so they aren't going to stop writing them.

You are every single thing I find simultaneously hilarious and pathetic about conspiracy theorists.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I'm a sports expert. Comiskey tried to cover up for his players so he could keep them. He didn't care if they threw games or not.
No. You are a sports ignoramus. It was Comiskey, in September 1920, who brought the first punishment against the players, suspending all seven who were still with the team, immediately after Cicotte's and Jackson's confessions. He did this despite his fear (which turned out to be well-founded) that so doing would cost his team the pennant.

The really sad fact here is that not only are you a sports ignoramus despite your laughable claims elsewise, you are apparently a links ignoramus as well, as the above fact can be found in the Wikipedia article you provided in the OP.

[PhantomWolf]

none of the people behind 9/11 are on trial.

Well then quick, what are you doing arguing with me on the net, why aren't you contacting KSM and co's lawyers to get them off. Why aren't you involved in an appeal for Zacarias Moussaoui? How can you live with yourself letting these innocent people be tried for crimes you can prove they didn't do? Why isn't your hero David Ray Griffin (otherwise known as the great joke) out there providing legal help for them?

You are losing the battle of History!

And you have lost touch with Reality

[PhantomWolf]

great. That's why most people think Dick Cheney was behind the 9/11 attacks as well, even if he gets off in the court system.

You really are in the Twilight Zone aren't you. People that believe 9/11 was an inside job - less than %4! How does that equate to "most people people think Dick Cheney was behind the 9/11 attacks"?

[PhantomWolf]

He succeeded in keeping them during 1920, and helped them get a not guilty verdict.

No he failed, he was forced to suspend them and then they got banned, that is not a success regardless of preventing guilty verdicts.

[Galileo]

No. You are a sports ignoramus. It was Comiskey, in September 1920, who brought the first punishment against the players, suspending all seven who were still with the team, immediately after Cicotte's and Jackson's confessions. He did this despite his fear (which turned out to be well-founded) that so doing would cost his team the pennant.

The really sad fact here is that not only are you a sports ignoramus despite your laughable claims elsewise, you are apparently a links ignoramus as well, as the above fact can be found in the Wikipedia article you provided in the OP.

you are a conspiracy theorist. Jackson's "confession" did not have his name signed on it.

[CptColumbo]

that's BS. The players had a contract with Charlie Comiskey, not with Landis. Comiskey never fired them. In fact, he wanted them to stay on the team. Landis just broke contract law and got away with it and should be kicked out of the Hall of Fame. Jackson, Weaver, and Cicotte belong in the Hall, not Landis. They should kick Commie out as well.They had a contract with the White Sox, which was part of the American League, which was part of Major League Baseball, of which Judge Landis was the Commissioner.

If Comiskey wanted them to stay on the team why did he suspend them in with three games left in the season the next year, when the Sox still had a chance to go to the series?

[CptColumbo]

you are a conspiracy theorist. Jackson's "confession" did not have his name signed on it.IIRC The man was illiterate.

[dudalb]

So we can add "sports" to the list of subjects you are not only ignorant about, but have no concept of whatsoever.

I think it would be easier to list the things that Galileo actually knows something about. It would be much shorter.
I have seen some pretty stupid comparasions made by the Twoofers, but comparing the Black Sox Scandal to 9/11 takes the cake for stupid. The mere idea deserves a Stundie.

[dudalb]

The man was illiterate.

Which if he had bothered to read the book he mentions so often, "Eight Men Out", he would have known.
It is ironic that Charlie Sheen,one time Truther advocate (although he seems to have backed down considerably) had one of his first roles in the film "Eight Men Out".

[Marquis de Carabas]

you are a conspiracy theorist. Jackson's "confession" did not have his name signed on it.
Fine. If you like, you may insert the word alleged in my post before the word confessions. That in no way damages my point, which is that you are ignorant both of the events you discuss and of the very sources you provide as you discuss them.

[CptColumbo]

IIRC (just going from what I remember reading about it) the confessions turned up later in the possession of Comiskey's Attorney.

[Marquis de Carabas]

IIRC (just going from what I remember reading about it) the confessions turned up later in the posession of Comiskey's Attorney.
Correct, though he never (to my knowledge) deigned to explain their prior absence nor how he came into possession of them.

[CptColumbo]

So basically, Galileo (the JREF poster) knows next to nothing about sports (at least baseball), the specifics of the 1919 World Series scandal, and how it connects with 9/11/2001?


BTW the 17 men banned from MLB (21 were banned and 4 were reinstated) during the KML era (1920-1944) were the only ones until Pete Rose was banned in 1989. 5 others were banned before and since, including Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and George Steinbrenner, but were reinstated.

[SDC]

Galileo, you really don't understand anything about US baseball, do you? No, you don't. You are just winging it. Do you understand what "winging it" means? No, you don't.

[Galileo]

Galileo, you really don't understand anything about US baseball, do you? No, you don't. You are just winging it. Do you understand what "winging it" means? No, you don't.

"winging", is that an americano expressionne? When I was a pitcher, I used to strike people out with the wing-ball, it really flew!

[yodaluver28]

none of the people behind 9/11 are on trial. Have you heard of Dr. David Ray Griffin? He has written several books that prove 9/11 was an inside job.

btw

If the number of books on the specific facts of 9/11 is any indication, history will end up backing the 9/11 Truth movement.

Books for the official story:

2

9/11 Commission Report
Popular Mechanics Debunking 9/11 Myths

Books for an Inside Job:

12

9/11 Contradictions
Debunking 9/11 Debunking
9/11 Commission Errors and Ommissions
Christian Faith & the Truth About 9/11
9/11 and Empire, Volume 1 (Griffin)
9/11 and Empire, Volume 2 (Barrett)
The Terror Conspiracy (Marrs)
Crosssing the Rubicon (Rupert)
9/11 Synthetic Terror (Tarpley)
The Terror Timeline (Thompson)
The Road to 9/11 (Scott)
The War on Truth

You are losing the battle of History!


There are many good books that analyze the facts concerning 9/11, Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, The Taliban, the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and Islamicist terrorism in general that all give a very clear and concise picture of what happened and who was involved. Alot more than two. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, but this is a short list of some of the best ones:

Longitudes and Attitudes by Thomas Friedman

Against All Enemies by Richard Clarke

1000 Years for Revenge by Peter Lance

The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawrence Wright

Holy War, Inc.: Inside The Secret World of Osama Bin Laden by Peter L. Bergen

Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror & Through Our Enemies' Eyes: Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam, and the Future of America both by Michael Scheuer

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 by Steve Coll

Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia & Jihad: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia both by Ahmed Rashid


I prefer the books that discuss more than just 9/11 because they give a much clearer picture of what actually happened and how long the attacks had actually been in the pipeline.

[~enigma~]

none of the people behind 9/11 are on trial. Have you heard of Dr. David Ray Griffin? He has written several books that prove 9/11 was an inside job.ROFLMAO
You are losing the battle of History!Clock is ticking bub and 1/20/2009 is fast approaching. on 1/21/2009 the truth movement will be a black mark in the history of the USA.

[Drudgewire]

When I was a pitcher, I used to strike people out with the wing-ball, it really flew!


I take it that was about the same time you were with that barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

If the number of books on the specific facts of 9/11 is any indication,

It isn't. It's called argumentum ad populum, it's a logical fallicy.


Books for the official story:

2

9/11 Commission Report
Popular Mechanics Debunking 9/11 Myths

Books for an Inside Job:

12

9/11 Contradictions
Debunking 9/11 Debunking
9/11 Commission Errors and Ommissions
Christian Faith & the Truth About 9/11
9/11 and Empire, Volume 1 (Griffin)
9/11 and Empire, Volume 2 (Barrett)
The Terror Conspiracy (Marrs)
Crosssing the Rubicon (Rupert)
9/11 Synthetic Terror (Tarpley)
The Terror Timeline (Thompson)
The Road to 9/11 (Scott)
The War on Truth


It's taken your pitiful little band of tinfoil turban wearers 12 tries to knock down just two books and you STILL haven't succeeded? Don't you think it's about time y'all gave up?

You don't have a prepronderance of evidence, you have a case of literary diarrhea. It keeps coming and coming and you just can't get off the pot.

You can sop the mess up with toilet paper, wrap bindings around it and throw it on bookstore shelves until the end of time. We won't care.

[Galileo]

There are many good books that analyze the facts concerning 9/11, Al Qaeda, Bin Laden, The Taliban, the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan, and Islamicist terrorism in general that all give a very clear and concise picture of what happened and who was involved. Alot more than two. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, but this is a short list of some of the best ones:

Longitudes and Attitudes by Thomas Friedman

Against All Enemies by Richard Clarke

1000 Years for Revenge by Peter Lance

The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11 by Lawrence Wright

Holy War, Inc.: Inside The Secret World of Osama Bin Laden by Peter L. Bergen

Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror & Through Our Enemies' Eyes: Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam, and the Future of America both by Michael Scheuer

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 by Steve Coll

Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia & Jihad: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia both by Ahmed Rashid


I prefer the books that discuss more than just 9/11 because they give a much clearer picture of what actually happened and how long the attacks had actually been in the pipeline.

Ghost Wars, I've got it its a great book, liked the part about Massoud.

Scheuer is a closet truther and Ron Paul backer.

Against All Enemies is an important source for Griffin, Clarke mentions that the FBI identified all 19 "hijackers" before they even knew FL93 was hijacked, that's pretty good detective work!

[CptColumbo]

I take it that was about the same time you were with that barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois.
"I hate Illinois Nazis." :)

You want baseball conspiracies? Try this from the official rules:
1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

Doesn't the DH make it 10 players? IT'S THE FIRST FREAKIN' LINE OF THE RULE BOOK!

I used to be an umpire (Babe Ruth league).

[AZCat]

I take it that was about the same time you were with that barbershop quartet in Skokie, Illinois.

Heh...

"Orca fat".



FYI: for those who don't get it, here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114814/quotes).

[CptColumbo]

Heh...

"Orca fat".



FYI: for those who don't get it, here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114814/quotes).So, "Shoeless" Joe Jackson is Keyser Soze. Wow, he's good.

[~enigma~]

"I hate Illinois Nazis." :)

You want baseball conspiracies? Try this from the official rules:
1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

Doesn't the DH make it 10 players? IT'S THE FIRST FREAKIN' LINE OF THE RULE BOOK!

I used to be an umpire (Babe Ruth league).
It's those lazy pitchers in the AL...

[Drudgewire]

Doesn't the DH make it 10 players? IT'S THE FIRST FREAKIN' LINE OF THE RULE BOOK!

No. You have 9 players on offense and 9 on defense. It's the same as football saying a team has 11 players each. It would really be 24 if you included defense,the punter, and the place kicker but it's only referring to who is participating at that particular moment.

[defaultdotxbe]

No. You have 9 players on offense and 9 on defense. It's the same as football saying a team has 11 players each. It would really be 24 if you included defense,the punter, and the place kicker but it's only referring to who is participating at that particular moment.
yeah, just that theres a lot more overlap in the offense and defense in baseball :)

[CptColumbo]

No. You have 9 players on offense and 9 on defense. It's the same as football saying a team has 11 players each. It would really be 24 if you included defense,the punter, and the place kicker but it's only referring to who is participating at that particular moment.Which footbal rule book are you refering to? I don't see one online at NFL.com or Football.com.

Baseball's rule book is at: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp

[Drudgewire]

Which footbal rule book are you refering to? I don't see one online at NFL.com or Football.com.

Baseball's rule book is at: http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp

The NFL's officlal beginner's guide to football:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/beginnersguidetofootball

It begins with an 11 player offense and an 11 player defense. By your reasoning it's a conspiracy because sometimes there's a kicker out there.


yeah, just that theres a lot more overlap in the offense and defense in baseball :)


Yeah, but it happens. Never forget, William Perry has more Super Bowl touchdowns than Walter Payton. :D

[CptColumbo]

The NFL's officlal beginner's guide to football:

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/beginnersguidetofootball

It begins with an 11 player offense and an 11 player defense. By your reasoning it's a conspiracy because sometimes there's a kicker out there.

But the Baseball rules doesn't have the seperation of offense and defense in the line about "two teams of nine players each."



Yeah, but it happens. Never forget, William Perry has more Super Bowl touchdowns than Walter Payton. :D
And apparently ate him.

[Drudgewire]

But the Baseball rules doesn't have the seperation of offense and defense in the line about "two teams of nine players each."


Doesn't matter. The hitter is replacing the pitcher on offense and/or the pitcher is replacing the hitter on defense.

There isn't a tenth player because there aren't 10 batters per cycle. There are the same 9 batters per cycle and 9 players in the field they have in the National league, one of them simply has a substitute.


And apparently ate him.


lol :)

[Foolmewunz]

believe it or not, more people in this country care about baseball than care whether a few thousand odd people get murdered. This apathy has allowed Bush and Cheney to so far escape justice.

Really? Is that why you and your ilk have never heard of the Black Sox Scandal, yet each of you can recite the Thermite/Thermate and CD theme songs by heart?

This is an idiotic statement. There are millions of sports fans (hence the word "fan", from "fanatic") in this world because it's a harmless pastime, essentially, and it gets the juices flowing. But I think there's only been one war, to date, over a sport or game. The passion of a drunk with no shirt on blowing on a noise-maker is not quite the same as the passion for your country, your family, your beliefs, or your rights.

This thread and your defense of the underlying premise is just an act of desperation from a dead movement. Where's my boy, Tweeter? He'd be able to tell us that this is just another indication that the TM is gaining momentum. Oh, well except that these are known TMers, already, so they're not gaining anything. And bringing this scandal up (you or them) as proof of anything other than a bunch of crooks can get to and bribe a few athletes, is just plain absurd.

[Travis]

So....wait.....an unsuccessful conspiracy is evidence of a successful conspiracy?

Is this like a thesis for an entirely new Logical Fallacy or what?

[PhantomWolf]

Since Galileo and his ilk seem to believe so ardently that KSM and co are innocent and are just patsies, I really find it strange that they waste so much time here arguing irrelevant things while those men are on trial for their lives. Why aren't they all off helping the defence by giving them the evidence that Bush and Cheney did it and not KSM and co. How can they let these men whom they believe are innocent be tried and possibly put to death, or at least imprisoned for the rest of their lives and yet stay quiet about it other then on internet forums?

[Galileo]

So....wait.....an unsuccessful conspiracy is evidence of a successful conspiracy?

Is this like a thesis for an entirely new Logical Fallacy or what?

That's your thesis, and pretty bizarre at that.

Since their were leaks BEFORE the 1919 Series, how come the conspiracy wasn't caught in the act?

You guys are always hollerin' from the rooftops that you can never get away with a giant conspiracy because there'd be leaks.

[Galileo]

Since Galileo and his ilk seem to believe so ardently that KSM and co are innocent and are just patsies, I really find it strange that they waste so much time here arguing irrelevant things while those men are on trial for their lives. Why aren't they all off helping the defence by giving them the evidence that Bush and Cheney did it and not KSM and co. How can they let these men whom they believe are innocent be tried and possibly put to death, or at least imprisoned for the rest of their lives and yet stay quiet about it other then on internet forums?

KSM is innocent! Hamdan's a patsy! Free bin Laden!

[PhantomWolf]

KSM is innocent! Hamdan's a patsy! Free bin Laden!

I see you are still wasting your time here, when are you going to be outraged enough to get in contact with the defence lawyers and show them your proof so you can get them off? Come on, this is your big chance to prove that Al Quaeda didn't do it and have the real culprits named in court. Why are you sitting posting to a website forum instead of doing something. People all around the world have given up small fortunes, their jobs, even their lives to free those that they believe are innocent. In the 60's people travelled across the country to taken on what they believed were abuses of power and injustices. What do you do? You sit in front of a computer and let people you believe are innocent got to the gallows. Some hero you are. Which is worse, Galileo, believing that person is guilty as charged and letting them be sentenced to death, or believing they are innocent and have been framed and do nothing to stop them being sentenced to death? You and your ilk sit there in your comfortable chairs and becry Bush and Cheney as murderers, but I say that if you don't go to the defence teams and give them your proof, get it in front of the court, then you and the rest of the Truth Movement are worse because you claim to know that these men are innocent but you are not willing to do anything to stop it. If what you claim as true is true then you are guilty too.

[Drudgewire]

KSM is innocent! Hamdan's a patsy! Free bin Laden!


Take lessons from Tweeter. He's may be here for no other reason than to troll too, but at least he's funny sometimes. :rolleyes:

[Galileo]

I see you are still wasting your time here, when are you going to be outraged enough to get in contact with the defence lawyers and show them your proof so you can get them off? Come on, this is your big chance to prove that Al Quaeda didn't do it and have the real culprits named in court. Why are you sitting posting to a website forum instead of doing something. People all around the world have given up small fortunes, their jobs, even their lives to free those that they believe are innocent. In the 60's people travelled across the country to taken on what they believed were abuses of power and injustices. What do you do? You sit in front of a computer and let people you believe are innocent got to the gallows. Some hero you are. Which is worse, Galileo, believing that person is guilty as charged and letting them be sentenced to death, or believing they are innocent and have been framed and do nothing to stop them being sentenced to death? You and your ilk sit there in your comfortable chairs and becry Bush and Cheney as murderers, but I say that if you don't go to the defence teams and give them your proof, get it in front of the court, then you and the rest of the Truth Movement are worse because you claim to know that these men are innocent but you are not willing to do anything to stop it. If what you claim as true is true then you are guilty too.

the rules of evidence in a military court prevent this.

[Alareth]

none of the people behind 9/11 are on trial. Have you heard of Dr. David Ray Griffin? He has written several books that prove 9/11 was an inside job.


Good heavens, no. Dr. Griffin you say?

Please, regale us with tales of this Oracle of Truth.

I'm on pins and needles in anticipation.

[Foolmewunz]

the rules of evidence in a military court prevent this.


But with your millions hundreds of thousands thousands couple of supporters, you can raise such a hue and din that the incoming government will surely take notice of all the hard evidence you will have gotten published in respected scientific and legal journals. You will be doing that soon, won't you?

A man's very life depends on you Galileo! Surely you won't sit there in your dank garret fomenting an armchair revolution when you have the evidence that can free him? What kind of a citizen of the earth would do such a thing?

In the name of all that is decent, man! I beseech you to take your information to the courts.

[Profanz]

But with your millions hundreds of thousands thousands couple of supporters, you can raise such a hue and din that the incoming government will surely take notice of all the hard evidence you will have gotten published in respected scientific and legal journals. You will be doing that soon, won't you?

A man's very life depends on you Galileo! Surely you won't sit there in your dank garret fomenting an armchair revolution when you have the evidence that can free him? What kind of a citizen of the earth would do such a thing?

In the name of all that is decent, man! I beseech you to take your information to the courts.

You are so funny Fool. Is that why your name is Fool? No one trusts this present administration and anything they have claimed to be the truth. 9/11 is just one more thing that they have lied about. I guess that's why so many people buy into 9/11 conspiracy and support all the people who debunkers are always claiming are cashing in on 9/11. Who the hell is buying all that stuff? I never seen to get an answer on that one.

And what are you going to do now that a person is running for President who doesn't really buy into the opposite conspiracy theory of a terrorist behind every corner with WMD's waiting to take down the free world?

Surely you won't sit there letting someone take command that disrespects everything this last administration has put forth as Gospel? The same liars who gave you your beliefs on 9/11 remember?.

What are you going to do Fool? The free world depends on you.
.

Do not alter a username.

[Foolmewunz]

You are so funny Fool. Is that why your name is Fool? No one trusts this present administration and anything they have claimed to be the truth. 9/11 is just one more thing that they have lied about. I guess that's why so many people buy into 9/11 conspiracy and support all the people who debunkers are always claiming are cashing in on 9/11. Who the hell is buying all that stuff? I never seen to get an answer on that one.

And what are you going to do now that a person is running for President who doesn't really buy into the opposite conspiracy theory of a terrorist behind every corner with WMD's waiting to take down the free world?

Surely you won't sit there letting someone take command that disrespects everything this last administration has put forth as Gospel? The same liars who gave you your beliefs on 9/11 remember?.

What are you going to do Fool? The free world depends on you.
.

What an honor! A recluse comes out of seclusion just to post these bon mots to me? I'm not worthy. Truly.

You thunk that all up by yourself, did you? Or did you have help? I've never heard a play on the word "fool" before. That's just so unique and clever, I have to salute you. (Along with the four hundred thirty six other clever lads who thought of it before you. Do you think that someone chooses a name with "Fool" or "Dumb" ïn it and hasn't heard this crap before?)

You know not to whom you speak, neophyte.

Before one opens one's figurative mouth around these parts, you might take the trouble to look up the posts of the person you think you're hemming in within your imagined political brackets. You could make yourself look like an idiot by not knowing the slightest thing about the political affiliations of the person you're speaking to.

[Brainster]

Chick Gandil made more money off the conspiracy tax free, than he'd make in ten years of playing. Crime paid. The other players all made at least 2 1/2 their annual salaries, plus what they made gambling, plus they played the 1920 season as well. Most reports assume they continued to throw games in 1920 and made untold thousands more.

Well, I can see that you don't know anything about the Black Sox scandal either. First only a few players actually got any cash out of the scheme, partially because the gamblers didn't want to pay the players, they wanted them to ride the money. When the gamblers didn't pay the Black Sox won a game, infuriating the gamblers who had bet against them.

Second, rumors were rife even before the series began that the Sox had been bought off, resulting in Christy Mathewson and a sportswriter collaborating on observations of odd play during the games.

[Metullus]

the rules of evidence in a military court prevent this.Out of curiosity, what rules would those be?

[defaultdotxbe]

Who the hell is buying all that stuff? I never seen to get an answer on that one.
who says anyones buying it?

9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press (http://www.amazon.com/11-Contradictions-Letter-Congress-Press/dp/1566567165/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218035378&sr=1-4)by David Ray Griffin (Paperback - Mar 2008)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #43,466 in Books

Up Till Now: The Autobiography (http://www.amazon.com/Till-Now-Autobiography-William-Shatner/dp/0312372655/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218035437&sr=1-2)by William Shatner and David Fisher (Hardcover - May 13, 2008)
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #4,839 in Books


really puts it in perspective, no?

[PhantomWolf]

No one trusts this present administration and anything they have claimed to be the truth.

Assuming you are in the US and do pay them, did you believe the current administration when it told you that you had paid your tax for the past 8 years? If so, how did you determine they were telling the truth?

[PhantomWolf]

Out of curiosity, what rules would those be?

I'm curious about this too. Exactly what rules prevent you sending all your evidence to the defence in a Militarty Court?

[Drudgewire]

No one trusts this present administration and anything they have claimed to be the truth. 9/11 is just one more thing that they have lied about.


I can understand the notion of not trusting this administration if they say the sun rose this morning until you've looked out your own window.

But the truth movement's position is to hear the administration say the sun rose this morning, look out the window and see the sun, read weather reports confirming there was indeed a sunrise, and still claim it's really nightfall and the rest of the world is either too brainwashed to realize it or in on the scheme to place powerful light bulbs on the moon's surface just to fool everyone.

[dudalb]

And what are you going to do now that a person is running for President who doesn't really buy into the opposite conspiracy theory of a terrorist behind every corner with WMD's waiting to take down the free world?

Apparently you have been on Outer Mongolia or some other remote spot,Slick, or you would have heard Obama has been spending a LOT of time explaining how he is going to fight terrorism.
And BTW you do know that Obama has pretty much called the Truthers a bunch of kooks?

[Slayhamlet]

Everyone: Please seriously consider putting the latest incarnation of the repeatedly banned troll "Last Child" on ignore. He badly needs all of our help in getting over his dangerous and unhealthy obsession with the JREF forum.

[Elizabeth I]

I'm curious about this too. Exactly what rules prevent you sending all your evidence to the defence in a military court?

Or to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - I'm sure he'd be fascinated, and make sure it got all the media play it needed.

[Profanz]

What an honor! A recluse comes out of seclusion just to post these bon mots to me? I'm not worthy. Truly.

You thunk that all up by yourself, did you? Or did you have help? I've never heard a play on the word "fool" before. That's just so unique and clever, I have to salute you. (Along with the four hundred thirty six other clever lads who thought of it before you. Do you think that someone chooses a name with "Fool" or "Dumb" ïn it and hasn't heard this crap before?)

You know not to whom you speak, neophyte.

Before one opens one's figurative mouth around these parts, you might take the trouble to look up the posts of the person you think you're hemming in within your imagined political brackets. You could make yourself look like an idiot by not knowing the slightest thing about the political affiliations of the person you're speaking to.

So you're not an Elitist? Elitist liberal? Elitist skeptic? Elitist fool?

Could have fooled me Fool.

[zaphod2016]

But I think there's only been one war, to date, over a sport or game.

Which war is that? Link, please!

I'm not being funny or sarcastic; this piqued my curiosity.

[Foolmewunz]

So you're not an Elitist? Elitist liberal? Elitist skeptic? Elitist fool?

Could have fooled me Fool.

Three days to come up with this??? Is this what passes for snappy repartee in your neighborhood? It doesn't even make sense.

You tried to peg me as a Bush-Cheney hugging conservative in the other post. No mention of 'elitist' anything. Now you're going to shift to calling me a liberal?

I guess any form of name calling will suffice if you have nothing to add to the discussion.

Oh, no! He called me a liberal.


And BTW, use my full screen name, please.

ETA: Bolded Part.
Could've? Did. You fooled yourself. You are so certain you're arguing with cardboard cutouts that you shotgun out an insult thinking that anyone who disagrees with the paranoid drivel of the TM just has to be a Bush supporting arch-fiend conservative. Please keep bumping this thread with your responses. Although, most people who get PWND have the sense to slink off to another thread.

[CptColumbo]

Which war is that? Link, please!

I'm not being funny or sarcastic; this piqued my curiosity.
During the "Christmas Truce" Adolph Hitler was called offsides, in a game against the English, by Herschel Goldstein. :)

[Profanz]

Three days to come up with this??? Is this what passes for snappy repartee in your neighborhood? It doesn't even make sense.

You tried to peg me as a Bush-Cheney hugging conservative in the other post. No mention of 'elitist' anything. Now you're going to shift to calling me a liberal?

I guess any form of name calling will suffice if you have nothing to add to the discussion.

Oh, no! He called me a liberal.


And BTW, use my full screen name, please.

ETA: Bolded Part.
Could've? Did. You fooled yourself. You are so certain you're arguing with cardboard cutouts that you shotgun out an insult thinking that anyone who disagrees with the paranoid drivel of the TM just has to be a Bush supporting arch-fiend conservative. Please keep bumping this thread with your responses. Although, most people who get PWND have the sense to slink off to another thread.

I'm sorry you don't support the Bush controlled version of events regarding 9/11? You don't pretend to dictate what the issues should be or what is ok to be skeptical about or not? You don't assert someone has been PWND just because you and the choir say so? You're a know nothing blowhard. But that's ok because you have lots of company here don't you?

Oh and just so you know my answer about elitist liberals and what you like to call Bush supporting arch-fiend conservatives being in the same boat on the 9/11 issue wasn't just something I simply came up with off the top of my head well here you go from July 15th...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3864101&postcount=118

You should already be familiar with my position as that reply was only a few posts after yours in the very same thread. In fact you and your nonsense were an inspiration.

[Foolmewunz]

I'm sorry you don't support the Bush controlled version of events regarding 9/11? You don't pretend to dictate what the issues should be or what is ok to be skeptical about or not? You don't assert someone has been PWND just because you and the choir say so? You're a know nothing blowhard. But that's ok because you have lots of company here don't you?

Oh and just so you know my answer about elitist liberals and what you like to call Bush supporting arch-fiend conservatives being in the same boat on the 9/11 issue wasn't just something I simply came up with off the top of my head well here you go from July 15th...

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3864101&postcount=118

You should already be familiar with my position as that reply was only a few posts after yours in the very same thread. In fact you and your nonsense were an inspiration.

I don't know how to break it to you, but we don't hang on your every word here. I didn't recognize that old post because it's, frankly, not very memorable. If that was meant to be a response (I'm truly humbled, yet again) you could've used the quote button, you know.

What are you going to do after the election? You have to change all your rhetoric and X out "Bush-Cheney Supporting Stooges" and replace with something like "Establishment Believing Cretins". (I haven't had time to work on something poetic, but I'm sure you guys will come up with something.)

The emotional appeal of siding with people who hate Bush as much as I do (although I don't know if that's possible... speaking of the policies and not the person) doesn't do it for me. Stalin probably hated Hitler as much as Churchill. They allied for a short while but it didn't last, did it? The enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend. And the person who I agree with on many things but who, by coincidence, agrees with my enemy on one of five thousand issues, is not my enemy. You seem to prefer the latter scenario as your world view.

As I said in that other thread, take it to politics and leave the 911 crap out and you'll find a whole lot of people who agree with you. In Politics you don't need facts, just opinions. In this sub-forum you need facts.

BTW, where I come from, calling someone a liberal is like calling them a reactionary conservative. (You have a particularly American view of the left-right split. You need to get out more. American politics, on a global scale starts out with its median already slightly to the right of the global center. The hours, days, and weeks of name-calling are all based on who's a little tiny bit further to the left or right of the other guy.) So calling me an elitist liberal is just as foolish as calling me a Bush-Cheney neo-con or whatever that was.

Bring facts. Bring evidence. Save the rhetoric for the cafeteria.

[Galileo]

So all you conspiracy theorists who believe in the White Sox conspiracy, do you also believe in the White Sox curse? What about the Red Sox jinx?

[zaphod2016]

During the "Christmas Truce" Adolph Hitler was called offsides, in a game against the English, by Herschel Goldstein. :)

:D

ROFL. For those who don't get the reference, this remains one of my favorite stories (http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/truce.asp).

And Foolmewunz, I would love to know more about any wars fought over a game or contest. I don't doubt for one moment that this may be true, I've just never heard of it.

[CptColumbo]

So all you conspiracy theorists who believe in the White Sox conspiracy, do you also believe in the White Sox curse? What about the Red Sox jinx?The supernatural is a subject for a different sub-forum. However, IMO the Red Sox continually fielded teams that could play well at Fenway, which is an unusual park, and that only helps you win half your games. They also were/are in the same league/division as the Yankees, who had/have the resources to recruit most the top players.

Since both teams have won the World Series in the last few years, one can assume that either the curse never existed or that it is broken.

[Drudgewire]

Since both teams have won the World Series in the last few years, one can assume that either the curse never existed or that it is broken.


The only real curse is the one on the Cubs... because goats are evil. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

[Travis]

Which war is that? Link, please!

I'm not being funny or sarcastic; this piqued my curiosity.

Well there was the Football War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War).

[Marquis de Carabas]

What about the Red Sox jinx?
But Bobby plays for the White Sox. :confused:

[Brainster]

The only real curse is the one on the Cubs... because goats are evil. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

Nope, the Cubs have the curse of Fred Merkle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Merkle).

[Foolmewunz]

Well there was the Football War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_War).

Well, that's the one I was referring to, and I have to confess to being duped by an Urban Legend of sorts. The press in the years after did refer back to it as the Football War and referenced that it broke out as THE RESULT of a football match. Not, as has been corrected that there happened to be a wee bit of a war breaking out and also a football match with some dustups.

Sorry Zaphod... hadn't been back to this thread for a while (don't tell Profanz, he thinks my sun rises and sets under his armpits)... I didn't mean to get your hopes up... It was purely (and ignorantly) unintentional on my part.

[Travis]

I have to admit, accusing Foolmewunz of being a radical right winger, is one of the funnier things I've seen on these forums. Next thing you know I will be accused of being Matt Damon or something.

[Foolmewunz]

I have to admit, accusing Foolmewunz of being a radical right winger, is one of the funnier things I've seen on these forums. Next thing you know I will be accused of being Matt Damon or something.


Oh, Profanz just loads up a scatter gun and shoots in any direction. (Usually hitting one or another of his feet, unfortunately.) While too specific it was nearly Teh Stundie material. (And the fallback position, that I'm an elitist liberal was equally amusing.)

ETA: You're not Matt Damon? But... but... I mean, you breathe air.. he breathes air. I have to admit, I was taken in, myself. :spjimlad::spjimlad:


ETA2: So I take it the nutso analogy between the Black Sox and 911 is officially dismissed? Color this thread dead.

[Travis]

Oh, Profanz just loads up a scatter gun and shoots in any direction. (Usually hitting one or another of his feet, unfortunately.) While too specific it was nearly Teh Stundie material. (And the fallback position, that I'm an elitist liberal was equally amusing.)

ETA: You're not Matt Damon? But... but... I mean, you breathe air.. he breathes air. I have to admit, I was taken in, myself. :spjimlad::spjimlad:


ETA2: So I take it the nutso analogy between the Black Sox and 911 is officially dismissed? Color this thread dead.

The analogy was ridiculous from its inception, I think this thread was stillborn.

[Elizabeth I]

The analogy was ridiculous from its inception, I think this thread was stillborn.

Oh, I don't know, it was good for some laughs.

[CptColumbo]

The analogy was ridiculous from its inception, I think this thread was stillborn.Judging from the track record of the thread's creator, I assumed it would be pointless, but it involved one of my favorite subjects (baseball).

[Profanz]

Oh, Profanz just loads up a scatter gun and shoots in any direction. (Usually hitting one or another of his feet, unfortunately.) While too specific it was nearly Teh Stundie material. (And the fallback position, that I'm an elitist liberal was equally amusing.)

ETA: You're not Matt Damon? But... but... I mean, you breathe air.. he breathes air. I have to admit, I was taken in, myself. :spjimlad::spjimlad:


ETA2: So I take it the nutso analogy between the Black Sox and 911 is officially dismissed? Color this thread dead.

Lies, transference, and denial

How surprising.

[CptColumbo]

Oh, Profanz just loads up a scatter gun and shoots in any direction. (Usually hitting one or another of his feet, unfortunately.) While too specific it was nearly Teh Stundie material. (And the fallback position, that I'm an elitist liberal was equally amusing.)

ETA: You're not Matt Damon? But... but... I mean, you breathe air.. he breathes air. I have to admit, I was taken in, myself. :spjimlad::spjimlad:


ETA2: So I take it the nutso analogy between the Black Sox and 911 is officially dismissed? Color this thread dead.

Lies, transference, and denial

How surprising.
You mean you are Matt Damon!?
Wow!

[Foolmewunz]

Lies, transference, and denial

How surprising.


(stroking chin whiskers) Hmmmm?