Questions about aircraft serial numbers

[1337m4n]

1) On what parts of a commercial airliner do serial numbers appear?

2) How big is the writing?

3) If an airliner is completely totaled, what are the chances that any serial numbers will be visible and recognizable?

[~enigma~]

3) If an airliner is completely totaled
Totaled as in a car crash...meaning intact but unsalvageable? If the plane is intact of course you can find serial numbers on some parts. If you mean scattered parts as were at the WTC and pentagon, hit or miss, no guarantee.

ETA - why do you ask?

[Magenta]

1) On what parts of a commercial airliner do serial numbers appear?

2) How big is the writing?

3) If an airliner is completely totaled, what are the chances that any serial numbers will be visible and recognizable?

A quick search shows Apathoid, AMTMAN and others have posted on this before, eg:

I cant believe that CTists are even talking about this. Its just....stupid.

Anyways, yes - most aircraft parts are serialized and its not to tie them to "parent" airplanes. They are serialized for tracking/maintenance purposes. Believe it or not, every serialized part(thousands per airplane) is tracked during that parts life until it is scrapped. When you replace serialized parts for maintenance, the old and new serial numbers are entered in the ships logbook, or routine Job Card and then entered into a maintenance database. So if you find a plane part in your yard that has a dataplate with a Manufacturer Part Number(MPN) - you can find out what type of airplane it came from(ie 767-323) and the effectivity(ie 301-333). If it has a serial number, you can find out what tail number it was last installed on(ie 315).

Almost all Manufacturer Part Numbers are unique to an aircraft type. These numbers can be BACC***(Boeing) numbers or vendor part numbers. We even have company part numbers to eliminate confusion(though it just adds to the confusion). There are also dash(-) numbers that may indicate a different subtype, or effectivity. There can be dozens of dash numbers for a single part number. One of those things mechanics really have to be careful of is installing the wrong part number and its very easy to do with multiple fleet effectivities(we have 15 "types" of 757s and I lost count of the 767's - it's well over 20).

A part may also have many assemblies made of "piece parts", each having a unique part number. For instance, you can order a 767 main landing gear assembly under a single part number, which obviously comes with hundreds of individual parts - or you can order them all individually. One day we actually found the assembly part number for the whole 757 airframe and ordered it just to see what the parts expediditors would say. They had no idea what it was and printed out a "Not In Stock" slip and left it on my toolbox hours later...:D

Many parts arent serialized(such as fasteners, light bulbs, electrical connectors, insulation blankets, carpet, coffee pots, etc..) and are deemed "free issue" or "throw away". Most anything under $500 is considered throw away and isnt tracked even if its serialized.

I guess the idea is that all the wreckage found at the Pentagon doesnt belong to a 757, or an AA 757, or N644AA......because they wont release the part numbers/serial numbers. Frankly, thats one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I'm guessing this all got started because a particular denier wanted to sound smart....go figure.


Photo of part of AA77 with serial number in this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=96370) and post (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3183792&postcount=51)from AMTMAN identifying it.

[funk de fino]

I'd like to add that some parts contain a data plate rivetted onto it which would contain this info. These plates are mostly thin aluminium and the numbers are stamped or etched onto them. Some parts like body panels and hatches have only part numbers and as such cannot be tracked. Sometimes these numbers are written on the panel with black marker pen. Even the FDR that I used to service had a thin alu plate attached to it with the serial number scribed onto it. If the plate is damaged, burned or lost then you only have the aircraft log book to go on to identify the serial number. And only if the log has been correctly updated. Wheels mostly had the serial number etched onto them somewhere.

No matter how many parts were shown from the crash sites, with serial numbers on them, the truthers would just cry fake. If you showed them the log book they would just cry fake. The serial number argument is pure bluster.

[DC]

When the serial number of the FDR is mentioned in the NTSB FDR Report, and when they cant read the Serial number anymore, they mention why .

normally, but not on 9/11........

[funk de fino]

When the serial number of the FDR is mentioned in the NTSB FDR Report, and when they cant read the Serial number anymore, they mention why .

normally, but not on 9/11........

I've already linked you to NTSB and AAIB reports which do not mention the serial number and do not say why it is missing. You are lying again.

[RedIbis]

http://physics911.net/georgenelson

Aircraft Parts and the Precautionary Principle
Impossible to Prove a Falsehood True:
Aircraft Parts as a Clue to their Identity
by George Nelson
Colonel, USAF (ret.)

[WildCat]

How about all that DNA, plane parts, the black boxes, the fact that the airlines say it was their planes, the fact no other planes went missing.

You have to be a complete fool to think it could have been any other planes.

[funk de fino]

http://physics911.net/georgenelson

Aircraft Parts and the Precautionary Principle
Impossible to Prove a Falsehood True:
Aircraft Parts as a Clue to their Identity
by George Nelson
Colonel, USAF (ret.)

This guy is a fraud and a liar. The below is a false statement.

Most of these time-change parts, whether hydraulic flight surface actuators , pumps, landing gears, engines or engine components, are virtually indestructible. It would be impossible for an ordinary fire resulting from an airplane crash to destroy or obliterate all of those critical time-change parts or their serial numbers. I repeat, impossible.


There was no need to identify parts by serial number because it was not an accident and the cause was not unknown. You're out of your depth here Red.

The guys a no planer, do you support his stance?

[RedIbis]

This guy is a fraud and a liar. The below is a false statement.

If you're going to attack someone's character and diminish your own in the process, at least provide a specific example. Was he convicted of fraud? Or do you simply disagree with his opinion?

There was no need to identify parts by serial number because it was not an accident and the cause was not unknown. You're out of your depth here Red.

Why is it that the airplane crashes on 9/11 are so thoroughly uninvestigated? You perpetuate this idea that the cause of a crash is believed to be known, the investigation ceases. Do you have an example of this ever happening before?

The guys a no planer, do you support his stance?

Quote him and I'll respond to that. Your discourse tactics are shallow and transparent.

[pomeroo]

{snip-idiocy}

Why is it that the airplane crashes on 9/11 are so thoroughly uninvestigated?



You've been caught lying again.

[lapman]

Why is it that the airplane crashes on 9/11 are so thoroughly uninvestigated? You perpetuate this idea that the cause of a crash is believed to be known, the investigation ceases. Do you have an example of this ever happening before?What do you consider a "thorough investigation?"

[funk de fino]

If you're going to attack someone's character and diminish your own in the process, at least provide a specific example. Was he convicted of fraud? Or do you simply disagree with his opinion?

I have given a specific example of his lies.

Why is it that the airplane crashes on 9/11 are so thoroughly uninvestigated? You perpetuate this idea that the cause of a crash is believed to be known, the investigation ceases. Do you have an example of this ever happening before?

Incorrect. They were investigated as far as was required by the FBI in conjunction with help from the NTSB. They were not accidents so why would there be an accident investigation. Serial numbers are not always used in aircraft accident investigations either.

Quote him and I'll respond to that. Your discourse tactics are shallow and transparent.

You posted the link, I guess that you read his comments. He is a no planer. he believes there is no evidence has been supplied that 4 heavy aircraft crashed that day (which is another lie).

With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged. Regarding the planes that allegedly flew into the WTC towers, it is only just possible that heavy aircraft were involved in each incident, but no evidence has been produced that would add credence to the government’s theoretical version of what actually caused the total destruction of the buildings, let alone proving the identity of the aircraft. That is the problem with the government’s 911 story. It is time to apply the precautionary principle.

Was this man ever involved in an NTSB accident investigation?

[1337m4n]

Photo of part of AA77 with serial number in this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=96370) and post (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3183792&postcount=51)from AMTMAN identifying it.

Ah. I suppose my questions are moot then. Basically I was wondering "so what" if there were no serial numbers found, but apparently there were.

I take it the Truthers claim that photo is "faked" or "planted"?

[Magenta]

I take it the Truthers claim that photo is "faked" or "planted"?


None of the usual suspects posted in that thread, but going on past experience I'd guess truthers would say any 757 parts found at the Pentagon were planted and were not from AA77, or they will try to cast doubt without offering any coherent explanation.

Another tactic seems to be to claim that unless investigators can account for the entire aircraft, provide a publicly available inventory of all components (complete with serial and part numbers), and reassemble it (and also make that publicly accessible), then no aircraft (or at least not AA77 and UA93) crashed at the Pentagon or Shanksville.

[Magenta]

Originally Posted by Dictator Cheney
When the serial number of the FDR is mentioned in the NTSB FDR Report, and when they cant read the Serial number anymore, they mention why .

normally, but not on 9/11........
I've already linked you to NTSB and AAIB reports which do not mention the serial number and do not say why it is missing. You are lying again.


In addition, and to ward off DC derailing this thread, when he has brought this up before (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=110874) it was addressed by Anti-sophist and others, eg here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3600377&postcount=41)and here (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3601441&postcount=128). If he wants to discuss the serial numbers on the NTSB reports he should take it back to that thread (that was started by him) rather than recycling it here.