Rrramon
4th August 2008, 03:47 PM
It follows pretty much the same pattern as any conspiracy debate: conspiracy theorist throws out a dozen arguments for the conspiracy, skeptic refutes one of those arguments, CTist throws back a dozen more. Cue stock footage of Whack-a-Mole.
I hadn't posted over there in like a year or so because I was getting too consumed with stuff like this--here's to falling off the wagon!
Not even close. They're advocating the single bullet theory based on the fact that Connally and Kennedy are both moving when it's believed one of the bullets hit. That's pure speculation, and they're stating it as fact which in this case is completely ridiculous.
The idea that one bullet did all that damage is complete nonsense when you look at the physical evidence and realize that the bullet supposedly shattered bone, went through two people and came out almost pristine, leaving more fragments in Connally's body than were missing from the bullet.
That, and the fact that the bullet magically appeared on a hospital gurney in Dallas.
The only reason they tried to attribute all that damage to one bullet was because it had been established that there were AT LEAST 3 gunshots fired, and even that was a difficult task for one man to pull of with the rifle he was supposedly using. The problem was it was clearly established that one of the bullets missed, because a man standing under the overpass was hit with a fragment of the curb when a bullet struck it.
So instead of trying to figure out if there were more gunmen or more shots fired they illogically tried to attribute all the damage in the two men to one bullet, the the fatal head shot to another, accounting for 3 shots.
That's total nonsense and just the fact that they pursued this angle should show that they were looking to establish that the official story of a lone gunman was correct rather than exploring all the possibilities.
It's total ********.
Joe, all of the wounds caused by the magic bullet have been recreated through rigorous computer modeling and real-life reenactments. They even used materials that were of nearly the exact same thickness, texture, etc of the victims' bodies, including animal bones, which disproves your statement about one bullet not being able to cause that much damage.
It'd be one thing if there was like a wound in Kennedy's back, and then the governor's leg, and then his shoulder, but everything is exactly where it is supposed to be if there was only one shooter.
The part about the bullet being "almost pristine" is a total myth. How pristine does this bullet look to you?
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/917/ce399on9.gif
The part about Oswald not being able to fire off that many shots in that much time is a myth too. I watched some dude who was like 90 do it on the Discovery Channel. You are a smart guy and are brilliant when making fun of stuff like Noah's Ark but then you completely cheesedick yourself when you talk about these conspiracies and don't bother to fact-check any of this stuff Alex Jones just made up.
It looks VERY pristine compared to a bullet that smashed bone and went through two people.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ce399.jpg
I've done A LOT of studying on that JFK assassination, and let me explain a little something to you about internet debates; you can't just say "all of the wounds caused by the magic bullet have been recreated through rigorous computer modeling and real-life reenactments." You post links to said tests. Oh, that's right - there aren't any.
I've never heard of any tests where they sent a bullet through two people, smashing bones where it left more fragments in the body of the victim than were missing from the bullet itself, and comes out looking like that picture.
You know why? Because it's *********** physically impossible.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bogus4.gif
Just because some people like Alex Jones say some outlandish ****, doesn't mean that some of what they say isn't valid.
By the way, there's a ton of evidence that points to that bullet being planted. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfCf-xH5IRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJq39E6UlLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ9ltGQXV6s
It's 20 minutes long, but you should watch the whole thing to see the painstaking detail they went to to reenact the shot--creating replica human rib cages, using gels that are the same thickness as human muscle, waiting for the same wind conditions that existed on that day, etc. And with only a couple minor differences (their bullet went through an extra rib and was thus a little more damaged, and didn't quite have enough speed to embed itself in the dummy governor's thigh), they were able to exactly replicate the path of the bullet.
It is a very good special and completely changed how I look at the whole thing. I used to be a huge JFK conspiracy junkie but after seeing stuff like this I eventually realized the evidence just isn't there.
OK, I watched all three of those. First off, the bullet looked NOTHING like the magic bullet when it came out. They attributed it to the fact that it hit 2 ribs instead of 1, but that's not an honest assessment in my opinion, because they didn't take into account that "magic" bullet shattered Connally's wrist as well. That's two bones.
They fired 2 bullets into bone, and both times the bullet was ********** up when it came out. WAY more ********** up than the magic bullet.
Secondly, this still doesn't address the fact that the chain evidence in acquiring the bullet was completely **********. Read this and you'll see why it's ridiculous to even consider that the bullet they found at the hospital was the bullet that passed through Kennedy and Connally: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
And what the **** was up with them firing a bullet into a pine log to show how it could come out looking like the magic bullet? If your bones were made out of pine they would shatter every *********** day. Any dope knows pine is an incredibly soft wood.
If they shot it into ebony it still wouldn't be as dense as bone.
Every time they shot a bullet into bone in the video it came out ********** up.
Those guys were way too happy to try to show that their experiments showed the conspiracies were incorrect.
Yes, the bullet looked more ********** up, but doesn't the fact that they were even able to recreate the exact same seven wounds (with the exception of the last one in the leg), with the dummies sitting in the exact same positions as the victims, show that the shot could be made by one shooter?
You said that "the idea that one bullet caused that much damage is complete nonsense" and posted a diagram arguing that the bullet would have to take some crazy midair turn in order to cause all the wounds. Ignoring the larger argument of whether there was a conspiracy or not, doesn't the video I posted at least prove that one statement wrong? Unless you wanted to argue that one bullet caused half the wounds, then another bullet following the exact same path pushed the first bullet through and caused the rest of the wounds.
They weren't able to recreate the damage, because it didn't go through the wrist and into Connally's thigh. That means one bullet wasn't able to cause all that damage, despite the fact that they were clearly looking to prove that Oswald acted alone in that video.
The main point is that the only reason why they even considered that a single bullet did all that damage was that they were trying to pin it all on one guy, despite all the eye witness testimony saying shots were fired from the grassy knoll. Then the fact that the bullet itself appeared under very suspicious circumstances at the hospital should lead anyone that's trying to be objective to question the veracity of the official story.
The only reason they came up with the single bullet theory in the first place wasn't because it was scientifically plausible or most likely, but because they were trying to attribute all the shots to one man, and had already established that at least 3 shots were fired.
It's all incredibly suspicious and suspect.
This video proves nothing, especially since they weren't able to recreate a bullet looking anything like the magic one unless they shot it into soft wood. The whole thing is bogus.
Do you think it's even possible that one bullet could cause all 7 of those wounds?
Whether it's possible or not is debatable, but they certainly didn't prove it in that video, especially in regards to the bullet coming out looking the same way. In fact, it's way easier to use that video to disprove the single bullet theory than to prove it.
They obviously went into this project with an agenda and decided they fulfilled it despite the evidence to the contrary.
Here's your original quote that got us into this:
Joe, all of the wounds caused by the magic bullet have been recreated through rigorous computer modeling and real-life reenactments.
That's 100% incorrect.
I hadn't posted over there in like a year or so because I was getting too consumed with stuff like this--here's to falling off the wagon!
Not even close. They're advocating the single bullet theory based on the fact that Connally and Kennedy are both moving when it's believed one of the bullets hit. That's pure speculation, and they're stating it as fact which in this case is completely ridiculous.
The idea that one bullet did all that damage is complete nonsense when you look at the physical evidence and realize that the bullet supposedly shattered bone, went through two people and came out almost pristine, leaving more fragments in Connally's body than were missing from the bullet.
That, and the fact that the bullet magically appeared on a hospital gurney in Dallas.
The only reason they tried to attribute all that damage to one bullet was because it had been established that there were AT LEAST 3 gunshots fired, and even that was a difficult task for one man to pull of with the rifle he was supposedly using. The problem was it was clearly established that one of the bullets missed, because a man standing under the overpass was hit with a fragment of the curb when a bullet struck it.
So instead of trying to figure out if there were more gunmen or more shots fired they illogically tried to attribute all the damage in the two men to one bullet, the the fatal head shot to another, accounting for 3 shots.
That's total nonsense and just the fact that they pursued this angle should show that they were looking to establish that the official story of a lone gunman was correct rather than exploring all the possibilities.
It's total ********.
Joe, all of the wounds caused by the magic bullet have been recreated through rigorous computer modeling and real-life reenactments. They even used materials that were of nearly the exact same thickness, texture, etc of the victims' bodies, including animal bones, which disproves your statement about one bullet not being able to cause that much damage.
It'd be one thing if there was like a wound in Kennedy's back, and then the governor's leg, and then his shoulder, but everything is exactly where it is supposed to be if there was only one shooter.
The part about the bullet being "almost pristine" is a total myth. How pristine does this bullet look to you?
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/917/ce399on9.gif
The part about Oswald not being able to fire off that many shots in that much time is a myth too. I watched some dude who was like 90 do it on the Discovery Channel. You are a smart guy and are brilliant when making fun of stuff like Noah's Ark but then you completely cheesedick yourself when you talk about these conspiracies and don't bother to fact-check any of this stuff Alex Jones just made up.
It looks VERY pristine compared to a bullet that smashed bone and went through two people.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ce399.jpg
I've done A LOT of studying on that JFK assassination, and let me explain a little something to you about internet debates; you can't just say "all of the wounds caused by the magic bullet have been recreated through rigorous computer modeling and real-life reenactments." You post links to said tests. Oh, that's right - there aren't any.
I've never heard of any tests where they sent a bullet through two people, smashing bones where it left more fragments in the body of the victim than were missing from the bullet itself, and comes out looking like that picture.
You know why? Because it's *********** physically impossible.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bogus4.gif
Just because some people like Alex Jones say some outlandish ****, doesn't mean that some of what they say isn't valid.
By the way, there's a ton of evidence that points to that bullet being planted. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfCf-xH5IRo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJq39E6UlLw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ9ltGQXV6s
It's 20 minutes long, but you should watch the whole thing to see the painstaking detail they went to to reenact the shot--creating replica human rib cages, using gels that are the same thickness as human muscle, waiting for the same wind conditions that existed on that day, etc. And with only a couple minor differences (their bullet went through an extra rib and was thus a little more damaged, and didn't quite have enough speed to embed itself in the dummy governor's thigh), they were able to exactly replicate the path of the bullet.
It is a very good special and completely changed how I look at the whole thing. I used to be a huge JFK conspiracy junkie but after seeing stuff like this I eventually realized the evidence just isn't there.
OK, I watched all three of those. First off, the bullet looked NOTHING like the magic bullet when it came out. They attributed it to the fact that it hit 2 ribs instead of 1, but that's not an honest assessment in my opinion, because they didn't take into account that "magic" bullet shattered Connally's wrist as well. That's two bones.
They fired 2 bullets into bone, and both times the bullet was ********** up when it came out. WAY more ********** up than the magic bullet.
Secondly, this still doesn't address the fact that the chain evidence in acquiring the bullet was completely **********. Read this and you'll see why it's ridiculous to even consider that the bullet they found at the hospital was the bullet that passed through Kennedy and Connally: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/palamara.htm
And what the **** was up with them firing a bullet into a pine log to show how it could come out looking like the magic bullet? If your bones were made out of pine they would shatter every *********** day. Any dope knows pine is an incredibly soft wood.
If they shot it into ebony it still wouldn't be as dense as bone.
Every time they shot a bullet into bone in the video it came out ********** up.
Those guys were way too happy to try to show that their experiments showed the conspiracies were incorrect.
Yes, the bullet looked more ********** up, but doesn't the fact that they were even able to recreate the exact same seven wounds (with the exception of the last one in the leg), with the dummies sitting in the exact same positions as the victims, show that the shot could be made by one shooter?
You said that "the idea that one bullet caused that much damage is complete nonsense" and posted a diagram arguing that the bullet would have to take some crazy midair turn in order to cause all the wounds. Ignoring the larger argument of whether there was a conspiracy or not, doesn't the video I posted at least prove that one statement wrong? Unless you wanted to argue that one bullet caused half the wounds, then another bullet following the exact same path pushed the first bullet through and caused the rest of the wounds.
They weren't able to recreate the damage, because it didn't go through the wrist and into Connally's thigh. That means one bullet wasn't able to cause all that damage, despite the fact that they were clearly looking to prove that Oswald acted alone in that video.
The main point is that the only reason why they even considered that a single bullet did all that damage was that they were trying to pin it all on one guy, despite all the eye witness testimony saying shots were fired from the grassy knoll. Then the fact that the bullet itself appeared under very suspicious circumstances at the hospital should lead anyone that's trying to be objective to question the veracity of the official story.
The only reason they came up with the single bullet theory in the first place wasn't because it was scientifically plausible or most likely, but because they were trying to attribute all the shots to one man, and had already established that at least 3 shots were fired.
It's all incredibly suspicious and suspect.
This video proves nothing, especially since they weren't able to recreate a bullet looking anything like the magic one unless they shot it into soft wood. The whole thing is bogus.
Do you think it's even possible that one bullet could cause all 7 of those wounds?
Whether it's possible or not is debatable, but they certainly didn't prove it in that video, especially in regards to the bullet coming out looking the same way. In fact, it's way easier to use that video to disprove the single bullet theory than to prove it.
They obviously went into this project with an agenda and decided they fulfilled it despite the evidence to the contrary.
Here's your original quote that got us into this:
Joe, all of the wounds caused by the magic bullet have been recreated through rigorous computer modeling and real-life reenactments.
That's 100% incorrect.