Will you fall for Cheney next False Flag?

[DC]

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don't we build - we in our shipyard - build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.


American politics.........
the new Nazis.....

[mrbaracuda]

Dictator Cheney....
no understanding of anything other than how to tie his shoes...

Other than that, see this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=119980).

[DC]

Dictator Cheney....
no understanding of anything other than how to tie his shoes...

Other than that, see this thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=119980).

Jaja schwing du nur deine BRD Fahne....

[TheRedWorm]

I'll assume that the best way to keep a secret is to reveal just enough of it so that intrepid investigooglers can easily spot the plan, yet every investigative body and MSM source ON THE PLANET remains clueless. Is that correct?

[mrbaracuda]

Jaja schwing du nur deine BRD Fahne....

Aber gern doch! Schlaaand, oh du schönes Schland. Lalalal! http://planetsmilies.net/flag-smiley-7328.gif

[DC]

Aber gern doch! Schlaaand, oh du schönes Schland. Lalalal! http://planetsmilies.net/flag-smiley-7328.gif

LOL he doesnt even know the BRD flag and the German flag.
schwingst normalerweise eher schwarz rot weiss?

[DC]

I'll assume that the best way to keep a secret is to reveal just enough of it so that intrepid investigooglers can easily spot the plan, yet every investigative body and MSM source ON THE PLANET remains clueless. Is that correct?

yeah i know, Hersch must be a liar now :)
he is in to it, in to the woo?

LOL

you guys are so in denial :)

[mrbaracuda]

LOL he doesnt even know the BRD flag and the German flag.

Excuse me?

schwingst normalerweise eher schwarz rot weiss?

Was willst du?

[TheRedWorm]

yeah i know, Hersch must be a liar now :)
he is in to it, in to the woo?

LOL

you guys are so in denial :)



Hey, I'm not the one accusing everyone and their mother of being in on, well, just about everything.

[scissorhands]

yeah i know, Hersch must be a liar now :)
he is in to it, in to the woo?

LOL

you guys are so in denial :)

"Hersh, like most investigative journalists, makes frequent reference to anonymous sources in his reporting; some have criticized this usage, implying that some of these sources are unreliable or even made up. In a review of Hersh's book, Chain of Command, neo-conservative commentator Amir Taheri wrote, "As soon as he has made an assertion he cites a "source" to back it. In every case this is either an un-named former official or an unidentified secret document passed to Hersh in unknown circumstances... By my count Hersh has anonymous 'sources' inside 30 foreign governments and virtually every department of the US government."[28]"

[scissorhands]

"Those who criticize Hersh's credibility especially point to allegations Hersh has made in public speeches and interviews, rather than in print. In an interview with New York Magazine, Hersh made a distinction between the standards of strict factual accuracy for his print reporting and the leeway he allows himself in speeches, in which he may talk informally about stories still being worked on or blur information to protect his sources. "Sometimes I change events, dates, and places in a certain way to protect people... I can’t fudge what I write. But I can certainly fudge what I say."[31]

[DC]

LOL

but when CNN and FOX tell you that the Iranian Goverment is smuggeling Guns into Iraq, you all belive it without any doubt, without any sources at all.

laughable wannabe critics

[TheRedWorm]

When did this happen? Please show me where I posted something along those lines. Unless you were responding to scissorhands, naturally.

[DC]

When did this happen? Please show me where I posted something along those lines. Unless you were responding to scissorhands, naturally.

i was indeed answering to scissorhands.

im glad to see that you atleast dont blindly belive FOX and CNN propaganda without evidence :)

[TheRedWorm]

i was indeed answering to scissorhands.


Ok, my fault.

im glad to see that you atleast dont blindly belive FOX and CNN propaganda without evidence :)


If only we could say the same about truthers and their truthy sites...

[DC]

Ok, my fault.




If only we could say the same about truthers and their truthy sites...

why? most truthers dont belive CNN and FOX .........
Mainstreammedia is a joke :)
its like asking Ford, if Ford cars are good cars......

[TheRedWorm]

Would you prefer to ask someone from fordcarssukomgwtf.com for an unbiased opinion on Ford automobiles?

[DC]

Would you prefer to ask someone from fordcarssukomgwtf.com for an unbiased opinion on Ford automobiles?

never heard that, but i guess you know what i ment, or do you ask Ford about the quality of ford cars? or more someone independent?

[pomeroo]

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don't we build - we in our shipyard - build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.


American politics.........
the new Nazis.....


Gee, liar, when the Iranians shot at a British ship a few months ago, the situation was resolved without a war. Perhaps you'd care to explain?
Why not? According to you America-hating scoundrels, the Brits are our poodles, right?

Of course, we all keep wondering why your imaginary conspiracy didn't claim that Saddam brought down one of the planes that his forces fired on almost every day. Oh, right--that's a terribly inconvenient question for you fantasists.

Will you still be "Dictator" Cheney when the real Cheney retires to private life? Explain.

[TheRedWorm]

You never heard of it because it doesn't (at least to my knowledge) exist. I was using it to demonstrate a point, however. Independent news sources...actually, define independent. I want to know what types of sources you are thinking of when you say independent.

[pomeroo]

i was indeed answering to scissorhands.

im glad to see that you atleast dont blindly belive FOX and CNN propaganda without evidence :)


Some of us have noticed that CNN leans pretty far left and is virulently anti-Bush.

[pomeroo]

LOL

but when CNN and FOX tell you that the Iranian Goverment is smuggeling Guns into Iraq, you all belive it without any doubt, without any sources at all.

laughable wannabe critics


Yeah, when those Iranian-made explosive devices are shown to various Middle Eastern news outlets, we can be sure that EVERYONE involved is part of your imaginary conspiracy.

[DC]

Some of us have noticed that CNN leans pretty far left and is virulently anti-Bush.

and still you can find alot lot propaganda in theyr news :)
when CIA tells a CNN reporter that Iranian goverment is smuggeling waeppons into iraq, CNN will report it without any evidence or backup :)

[DC]

Yeah, when those Iranian-made explosive devices are shown to various Middle Eastern news outlets, we can be sure that EVERYONE involved is part of your imaginary conspiracy.

evidence of links to Iranian Government?

NONE.........


you have fallen for propaganda, i dont wonder.

[TheRedWorm]

and still you can find alot lot propaganda in theyr news :)
when CIA tells a CNN reporter that Iranian goverment is smuggeling waeppons into iraq, CNN will report it without any evidence or backup :)



And when Unsecured Coins posts on a forum that he is getting an RFID chip, Prison planet reports it as a fact without even interviewing him. Strange, that.

[Thunder]

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don't we build - we in our shipyard - build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.


American politics.........
the new Nazis.....

you have no idea what a Nazi is

[DC]

And when Unsecured Coins posts on a forum that he is getting an RFID chip, Prison planet reports it as a fact without even interviewing him. Strange, that.

thats typical for Jones :)
taking JREF as a scource is a bad idea.

[DC]

you have no idea what a Nazi is

i do know it, and indeed one part does not fit, the zi part of Nazi.
the US government hasnt much in common with Sozialism.
but they have the same tactics.

[TheRedWorm]

thats typical for Jones :)
...


If that is the case, is it fair to immediately discount him as an independent news source, as well as anyone who uses him as a source?

[DC]

If that is the case, is it fair to immediately discount him as an independent news source, as well as anyone who uses him as a source?
independent? didnt you mean incompetent? i would agree on incompetent.

[TheRedWorm]

That is not the question. The question is: If he is incompetent AND uses dubious (at best) sources with little to no fact checking, can he (and anyone who cites him) be discounted as an independent news source?

-or-

Please post your definition of independent news source.

[DC]

That is not the question. The question is: If he is incompetent AND uses dubious (at best) sources with little to no fact checking, can he (and anyone who cites him) be discounted as an independent news source?

-or-

Please post your definition of independent news source.

???? in other words, you think every independend news source is incompetent?
some are good, like hersch, some are not, like Jones.
some sources are good, some are not.

so you belive things only when they are presented in the major news stations?
aslong there is not a multi billion company behind it, it cant be good news? is that your oppinion?

[TheRedWorm]

???? in other words, you think every independend news source is incompetent?
some are good, like hersch, some are not, like Jones.
some sources are good, some are not.

so you belive things only when they are presented in the major news stations?
aslong there is not a multi billion company behind it, it cant be good news? is that your oppinion?


Again, you avoided the question: Given that Jones is incompetent, can we disregard him and anyone who cites him as an independent news source, yes or no?

Also, I am still waiting on your definition of an independent news source.

[DC]

Again, you avoided the question: Given that Jones is incompetent, can we disregard him and anyone who cites him as an independent news source, yes or no?

Also, I am still waiting on your definition of an independent news source.

i still dont get it, why do you think when someone is incompetent you can call him independent? those are diffrent things.

i mean, O'reilly is also incompetent, but he is in no way independent.

and how much Jones is independent, i dont know, alot of commercial banners on his websites, (most are from himself i think lol)

normaly with independent i mean a news outlet not from the major Media companys or a government (China). but also the independend depend on someone :)

i dont get what you mean.
do you really think independend journalists are incompetent?

[TheRedWorm]

No, I never said that independent journalists are incompetent. I asked if, based on incompetence, Jones can be discounted as an independent news source. However, since you seem to not get it, I'll rephrase: Based on incompetence, can we discard Jones and anyone who cites him as a news source?

Also, your definition of independent is very nebulous. Can you maybe cites some examples of what you consider independent news sources?

[DC]

No, I never said that independent journalists are incompetent. I asked if, based on incompetence, Jones can be discounted as an independent news source. However, since you seem to not get it, I'll rephrase: Based on incompetence, can we discard Jones and anyone who cites him as a news source?

Also, your definition of independent is very nebulous. Can you maybe cites some examples of what you consider independent news sources?

for many years i readed this far left indynews, http://ch.indymedia.org/ , but also alot crap will be published, in switzerland there are some smaller journals that are also independend to some degree.
you alsways can debate how much independent they are :)
and on TV swiss TV news is geting very good critics of beeing very neutral and objective, but alot things they dont report.

i dicards jones as a incompetent "journalist".
but its hard to say you can do the same with others that take him as a reference, i guess sometimes Jones has good stuff too.

[TheRedWorm]

for many years i readed this far left indynews, http://ch.indymedia.org/ , but also alot crap will be published, in switzerland there are some smaller journals that are also independend to some degree.
you alsways can debate how much independent they are :)
and on TV swiss TV news is geting very good critics of beeing very neutral and objective, but alot things they dont report.


Ok. And this is better than MSM sources in what way? What you have is:
1. A news source that has a far left bias. (Not that that is necessarily bad, but bias is still bias)
2. Some smaller journals that are of questionable independence, and
3. Swiss TV that is "neutral" and "objective" that omits stories (weather accidentally or intentionally is unclear).

[DC]

Ok. And this is better than MSM sources in what way? What you have is:
1. A news source that has a far left bias. (Not that that is necessarily bad, but bias is still bias)
2. Some smaller journals that are of questionable independence, and
3. Swiss TV that is "neutral" and "objective" that omits stories (weather accidentally or intentionally is unclear).

MSM news on TV is a joke, i hope we agree on that, no indepth news. only a few major things, even on News channels that can send news all day long.

MSM newspaper is already better, but you need to read the smaller articels that are not on the frontpage.

your right about the bias, thats why i pointed out the bias already, and i alwasy keep in mind the bias i read. but i also read things from biases i dont like like the right bias, we also have such things. i also readed alot on FreeRepublic.com to feel some extreem far right wing stuff. or watched FOX news, back then when i got that on my sat.

how many critical GM food stories did you read or see on MSM?

[TheRedWorm]

MSM news on TV is a joke, i hope we agree on that, no indepth news. only a few major things, even on News channels that can send news all day long.

On this, I'm afraid that we can't agree, at least not to the bolded bit. You and I and 20 million others may not care that Branjlina just had twins, but chances are there are 50 million that do care. So while I do agree that the vast majority of TV news is poorly done, and focuses on the wrong issues for way too much time, I realize that this is only an opinion. I also realize that this opinion is not shared by many people, and what I think is a major story, and what you think are a major story, may be completely different.

MSM newspaper is already better, but you need to read the smaller articels that are not on the frontpage.

I agree that it is important to read the entire paper. No argument there.

your right about the bias, thats why i pointed out the bias already, and i alwasy keep in mind the bias i read. but i also read things from biases i dont like like the right bias, we also have such things. i also readed alot on FreeRepublic.com to feel some extreem far right wing stuff. or watched FOX news, back then when i got that on my sat.

As long as you are able to recognize bias in all sources that you refer to, and not falsely attribute bias.


how many critical GM food stories did you read or see on MSM?


I'm not a news hound, so I honestly couldn't tell you. I can also tell you that I haven't really heard arguments either way. However, this is a topic that deserves it's own thread. Shall I create one in the Science sub-forum?

[DC]

On this, I'm afraid that we can't agree, at least not to the bolded bit. You and I and 20 million others may not care that Branjlina just had twins, but chances are there are 50 million that do care. So while I do agree that the vast majority of TV news is poorly done, and focuses on the wrong issues for way too much time, I realize that this is only an opinion. I also realize that this opinion is not shared by many people, and what I think is a major story, and what you think are a major story, may be completely different.



I agree that it is important to read the entire paper. No argument there.



As long as you are able to recognize bias in all sources that you refer to, and not falsely attribute bias.





I'm not a news hound, so I honestly couldn't tell you. I can also tell you that I haven't really heard arguments either way. However, this is a topic that deserves it's own thread. Shall I create one in the Science sub-forum?

i think no need for another topic for details into that, i think we hit a topic we agree far to much for a debate :) (o wonder)

indeed i fully agree about the importance of stories, far to much ppl see TV news already as far to much information :D
and indeed i think you are right when you say most ppl are indeed far more interested in Bradjolies life than about globalwarming or politics etc :)

and main point would be prolly NEWS BUSSINES, it is a bussines :)

[TheRedWorm]

i think no need for another topic for details into that, i think we hit a topic we agree far to much for a debate :) (o wonder)



I doubt that in a thread focusing on genetically modified food, we'd be the only two posters. Plus, I think it is a topic that would make for enlightening conversation. What do you think? Should I create a thread and link it here?

[moon1969]

Maybe Cheney took leasons from Vladimir Putin? There is so much proof that Russian apartment bombings was an inside job and FSB was behind it. Just ask Boris Berezovsky. Boris Berezovsky is a former Kremlin insider and I don"t think he would lie about something like that.

[DC]

I doubt that in a thread focusing on genetically modified food, we'd be the only two posters. Plus, I think it is a topic that would make for enlightening conversation. What do you think? Should I create a thread and link it here?

aah you ment about GM food :) arent there already topics about it?

[TheRedWorm]

The most recent one was from 2003, tho my Google Fu is weak

[DC]

The most recent one was from 2003, tho my Google Fu is weak

na there was one a few weeks ago afaik, i posted there.
but those discusions mostly arent helpfull, GM food has won, nothing we can do:)

[TheRedWorm]

Told you my Google Fu was weak! Do you perchance have a link to the thread, I'd like to peruse it. Thanks in advance.

[mrbaracuda]

Ok. And this is better than MSM sources in what way?

You're not familiar with 'indymedia'?

[DC]

You're not familiar with 'indymedia'?

Bild leser?

[DC]

Told you my Google Fu was weak! Do you perchance have a link to the thread, I'd like to peruse it. Thanks in advance.

mmmmh cant find it, maybe do to forum update.

[mrbaracuda]

Bild leser?

Du solltest deine Medikamente wie auf der Verpackungsbeilage beschrieben ordnungsgemäß einnehmen und die Tagesdosis auch einhalten. Sonst kann es passieren, dass die nicht anschlagen und helfen. Wie es bei dir ersichtlich ist.

[doobiedoright]

HERSH: There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don't we build - we in our shipyard - build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up.


American politics.........
the new Nazis.....

You have proof of a first one?
Nope didnt think so!
You have zero understanding of anything!

[Darth Rotor]

You're not familiar with 'indymedia'?
In the US of A, we get more emomedia than indymedia. :p

(I tried this before, and the post vaporized. Beware the power of the mod dark side.)

[mrbaracuda]

In the US of A, we get more emomedia than indymedia. :p

(I tried this before, and the post vaporized. Beware the power of the mod dark side.)

Angsty, spoiled teens with too much time on their hands and no purpose in life -media. ;)

[Jontg]

You know, I love how you use the Mahatma Gandhi as your avatar; it just says so much about you. The arrogance. The delusions of grandeur. The hypocrisy.
This isn't a game, DC, and you aren't the main character. You're not awake. You're not unplugged. You're living in a juvenile fantasy, and you're being used by people who have nobody's best interests in mind but their own.
You're nothing but a dog, who happens to answer to a different master than the rest of us. Wise up before somebody has to put you down.

[dudalb]

You know, I love how you use the Mahatma Gandhi as your avatar; it just says so much about you. The arrogance. The delusions of grandeur. The hypocrisy.
This isn't a game, DC, and you aren't the main character. You're not awake. You're not unplugged. You're living in a juvenile fantasy, and you're being used by people who have nobody's best interests in mind but their own.
You're nothing but a dog, who happens to answer to a different master than the rest of us. Wise up before somebody has to put you down.


Gandhi would be angry that someone like Dictator Cheney is using his image and reputation in a desperate attempt to lend credence to his nonsense.

[Travis]

I love how people think the media is either incompetent or corrupt simply because it doesn't harp endlessly on whatever crap subject they think is important.

[mrbaracuda]

I love how people think the media is either incompetent or corrupt simply because it doesn't harp endlessly on whatever crap subject they think is important.

Whenever I check my mails via webpage interface, I see stuff like 'OMG 9 Million $ worth photos of Angelina Jolies' baby!!!11' and I wonder: How many people are really interested in that though? ;)

[Jontg]

Gandhi would be angry that someone like Dictator Cheney is using his image and reputation in a desperate attempt to lend credence to his nonsense.

Yes, thank you for the pedant-to-English translation. :p

[Elizabeth I]

If Cheney really plans to launch a false-flag operation, he better get on it. He has about four months left to get it off the ground. Not a lot of time when you consider all the organization that's necessary before the first shot can even be fired.