Be Cruel to Be Kind?

[Flame]

Would you/have you 'saved' a friend from being sucked in by a psychic who is apparently 'so on the mark' :mad: ?

Should I even risk losing my friend because I fear for her financial and emotional welfare?

Toni

[UnrepentantSinner]

I say let her know how you feel, but be gentle. You'll need to walk a fine line between letter her know she's being a chump and not making her feel like she's being a chump.

[Graham]

But the psychic said she would be moving house . . . sometime in the future . . . and she is!

Give your opinion if you're asked for it - otherwise, you're probably just wasting your time.

Graham

[Flame]

Somehow I thought you might reply to this G. But she throws it in my face and says 'I know you think it's crap but...' and is always trying to convince me.
Asking for my opinion? or for what she wants to hear?

Toni

[Zep]

She sounds FAR more like she is trying to convince herself to go by getting YOU to agree to let her try (at a minimum). All she seems to want is for you to give her some sort of "permission" for her to "have a little try" at it. I must say I can't speak highly of her self-control or sense of self-worth if that is the case, letting you make her decisions like that.

Anyway, I suggest you stick politely but firmly to your guns - tell her you think it is straight out flim-flam designed solely to part a fool from her money, nothing else, and that you do not agree that she should see this psychic at all ever.

If she REALLY wants to go then she will and you can be damned. If she is just hanging on your word, chances are she will resist the temptation (at least until you are not around anyway).

[Lothian]

Originally posted by Graham
But the psychic said she would be moving house . . . sometime in the future . . . and she is!

Give your opinion if you're asked for it - otherwise, you're probably just wasting your time.
I am sure the psychic said a lot more than that. However the bit about moving was remembered because it was true. Just as my one for you is true.

You will meet a friend you haven’t heard from for a long time.

Note that my prediction for you and the one your friend had have no time limits. That she was about to move did not mean that the prediction was more right than if she moved in 20 years time.

It is very difficult to convince someone that a psychic is not accurate. Even if you pick each and every statement made, the recollection of the sitter will not be entirely accurate. If they have a recording you can, if you know about cold reading, explain each and every prediction, count the hits and misses and generally take the reading apart. If you do will your friend be convinced? Probably not if they really want to believe.

I just say that people can accurately replicate psychic readings, including providing specific information using what is called ‘hot and cold reading’. There are tests to show someone is really psychic as opposed to using hot and cold readings and there is a million US dollars on offer to anyone who can pass the test. For some reason none of them are willing to give it a go. I then leave them to draw their own conclusions.

[Flame]

Originally posted by Zep
She sounds FAR more like she is trying to convince herself to go by getting YOU to agree to let her try (at a minimum). All she seems to want is for you to give her some sort of "permission" for her to "have a little try" at it. I must say I can't speak highly of her self-control or sense of self-worth if that is the case, letting you make her decisions like that.

Anyway, I suggest you stick politely but firmly to your guns - tell her you think it is straight out flim-flam designed solely to part a fool from her money, nothing else, and that you do not agree that she should see this psychic at all ever.

If she REALLY wants to go then she will and you can be damned. If she is just hanging on your word, chances are she will resist the temptation (at least until you are not around anyway).

I hadn't thought about it in that sense. I think you may be on to something there. She has already had her in the house for the reading and funny although we talk nearly every day, she never mentioned to me that she was coming until the next day when she had a lot of 'proof' that she was 'for real'. It just makes me sad.
I feel like I don't respect her as much as I had before and I suppose I have selfish motives for wanting to rescue her.
hmmm

[thaiboxerken]

Show her the Randi website, this forum and even a couple episodes of P&T's "Bullsh.." show, then call her stupid for believing in such crap.

[Flame]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Show her the Randi website, this forum and even a couple episodes of P&T's "Bullsh.." show, then call her stupid for believing in such crap.

If she read that she'd been called a chump and that I hadn't disagreed (or that I'd said I'd lost some respect for her)
She'd be heartbroken. She's a very kind person and it's my desire to keep her as a friend and frustration with our conversations lately that led me to post.

plus, you wouldn't really want me to do that to someone now - would you?

big meanie :p

Toni

[Clancie]

Hi Flame,

As a resident woo-woo here ("former" skeptic, lol), I feel highly qualified to answer. :)

In your situation I would try to give my opinion (that I thought the psychic was making things up) and explain why. I would not criticize my friend for believing it and, once I made my point clear (pointing out it was in the spirit of friendship, because I cared about her), then I would have a clear conscience and would drop it (because, after all, its her life and her "mistakes" to make).

If I were in the friend's position I would value your honesty and, if I still disagreed with you after hearing your points, I would appreciate it that you didn't keep badgering me with them. (Hmmm...no, tbk, I don't think we would be real-life friends. :eek: )

I don't know the people involved, but just sharing that's how it would work if either of them were me. :)

[Flame]

Originally posted by Clancie
Hi Flame,

As a resident woo-woo here ("former" skeptic, lol), I feel highly qualified to answer. :)

In your situation I would try to give my opinion (that I thought the psychic was making things up) and explain why. I would not criticize my friend for believing it and, once I made my point clear (pointing out it was in the spirit of friendship, because I cared about her), then I would have a clear conscience and would drop it (because, after all, its her life and her "mistakes" to make).

If I were in the friend's position I would value your honesty and, if I still disagreed with you after hearing your points, I would appreciate it that you didn't keep badgering me with them. (Hmmm...no, tbk, I don't think we would be real-life friends. :eek: )

I don't know the people involved, but just sharing that's how it would work if either of them were me. :)

You misunderstand I think...

The situation is that she keeps bringing it up.

Toni

[Graham]

Originally posted by Flame
Somehow I thought you might reply to this G. But she throws it in my face and says 'I know you think it's crap but...' and is always trying to convince me.
Asking for my opinion? or for what she wants to hear?

Toni

Tell her that you don't believe in psychics and give her two options:

1) Shut the f** up a la Thaiboxerken

or

2) If she wants to continue the discussion, ask her to tape record her next "session" (I'll lend her a dictaphone, if you like).

I'll transcribe it and we'll go from there.

Graham

[Clancie]

Posted by Flame

You misunderstand I think...

The situation is that she keeps bringing it up.
Oh, you're right. I did. I agree that would be annoying and, yes, I'd probably ask her to find someone else to talk with about psychic kinds of topics because it was unlikely either of us was going to change our ideas about them. If she persisted, I'd just spend much less time with her. But I wouldn't keep the argument going once she knew how I felt, because in real life, under those circumstances (unlike a message board:) ), there's really no point in doing so.

[tracer]

Originally posted by Flame
She has already had [the psychic] in the house for the reading and funny although we talk nearly every day, she never mentioned to me that she was coming until the next day when she had a lot of 'proof' that she was 'for real'.
Wait a minute ... she brought the psychic into the house?!

No wonder the psychic "predicted" that she'd be moving soon -- she probably saw evidence in the house for an impending move!

[plindboe]

Originally posted by Graham
But the psychic said she would be moving house . . . sometime in the future . . . and she is!

She might have provided that info herself beforehand, and then forgot about it. Often psycics suck out information from their victims, and later present it as a prediction. Many big hits are produced this way.

[Flame]

I happen to know that my friend had no idea that she would be moving, the situation presented itself quite by surprise days after the reading.

Unfortunately for her because now she's dead convinced.
I forgot to mention this psychic also spoke to the dead daughter of a dying friend of hers. It made me sick when she told me that. She was so happy, and it was hard for me to smile and nod.

Toni

[Graham]

Originally posted by plindboe

She might have provided that info herself beforehand, and then forgot about it. Often psycics suck out information from their victims, and later present it as a prediction. Many big hits are produced this way.

Again the lack of a "sarcasm" smiley causes misunderstanding!

I didn't know the "psychic" was actually in her house though, that's just ridiculous.

For someone living in rented accomodation who's just broken up with her boyfriend (both of which facts would probably be obvious from the house alone, even assuming there was no chit-chat before the session), predicting that she will move sometime in the future is a no-brainer, IMO.

The thing about the dead daughter was sick though. Of course there was no possible way she could have had any hint about that (except, of course, that a number of the "subject's" friends also use the same "psychic").

The whole thing is ************ and the fraud is as transparent as . . . well, a really transperent thing that's had extra transperency built in.

I'd love to know just how much she's charging. Try to find out the "psychic's" name, if you can.

Graham

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Clancie
Hi Flame,

As a resident woo-woo here ("former" skeptic, lol), I feel highly qualified to answer. :)

In your situation I would try to give my opinion (that I thought the psychic was making things up) and explain why. I would not criticize my friend for believing it and, once I made my point clear (pointing out it was in the spirit of friendship, because I cared about her), then I would have a clear conscience and would drop it (because, after all, its her life and her "mistakes" to make).

If I were in the friend's position I would value your honesty and, if I still disagreed with you after hearing your points, I would appreciate it that you didn't keep badgering me with them. (Hmmm...no, tbk, I don't think we would be real-life friends. :eek: )

I don't know the people involved, but just sharing that's how it would work if either of them were me. :)

Excellent answer Clancie. I was going to say something very similar, but you've already said what I was going to say and expressed it much better than I could have :)

Edited to add: Flame, I've just read your response to Clancie. I agree it would be a tad annoying if she keeps bringing it up.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Flame
I happen to know that my friend had no idea that she would be moving, the situation presented itself quite by surprise days after the reading.

Unfortunately for her because now she's dead convinced.
I forgot to mention this psychic also spoke to the dead daughter of a dying friend of hers. It made me sick when she told me that. She was so happy, and it was hard for me to smile and nod.

Toni

How come people are always so certain about things? :confused: Your friend is absolutely convinced this psychic is for real and can even speak to dead people. On the other hand you're absolutely convinced that the so called psychic is a charlatan. How come people are always so certain about things?? Am I unique?

Anyway, no point in trying to convince each other with such entrenched positions. The best thing for you to say to her is to ask her do you think it is conceivable you could be wrong about this. And she should ask you the same and take it from there. Or alternatively just agree to disagree.

[Ed]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian


How come people are always so certain about things? :confused: Your friend is absolutely convinced this psychic is for real and can even speak to dead people. On the other hand you're absolutely convinced that the so called psychic is a charlatan. How come people are always so certain about things?? Am I unique?

Anyway, no point in trying to convince each other with such entrenched positions. The best thing for you to say to her is to ask her do you think it is conceivable you could be wrong about this. And she should ask you the same and take it from there. Or alternatively just agree to disagree.

Are you covinced that you are corect when you post philosophical stuff? Are the people that don't get it dunderheads?

[Flame]

So talking to my friend today the subject invariably came up.

Turns out she pays €30 for a 30 minute session. I suppose that's not a huge amount of money.
Also this gifted lady is around 22 and only gives out her first name.

I said holy ___ I should start doing that and her very serious reply was:

... but you'd actually have to be able to do it, have the gift of sight.

Oh dear... I just laughed in *apparent* agreement.

Funny that there are many times when (appropriatly) my friend has turned down and invitation to go out for a drink/coffee/dinner due to lack of money but she has €60/hour for her psychic.

and for the record I really think this lady is a con artist, but I am not certain of it... There are very few things in life I am 'certain' of.

Toni