Was the internet inevitable?

[firestorm]

Ever take 'statistics' in high school?

The more numbers you factor in, the more accurate and unchanging your statistic becomes. Fast forward to the internet - where everyone can express their opinion. Every opinion has a counter opinion. Evenutally any opinion left or right of center isn't enough to influence anyone.

And I think, have we inevitably realized that mankind has become a large, nuetralized mass or is the internet nothing but a meaningless, social experiment?

[Wildy]

firestorm

Welcome to the forum firstly.

I guess that depends on a variety of factors that would have any influence on people.

Let's take forums for example.

There are a number of factors that depend on how successful they are.

Let's say we have three forums, A, B and C. All are pure discussion forums with no real specialisation whatsoever.

A is a forum which has rules and regulations and a group of moderators that zealously enforce these rules to the letter, minor infractions are punished.

B is a forum which has rules and regulations but the moderators are more liberal. There are no guidelines on how many suspensions before you are banned and they will overlook some infractions but even though they do this they are consistent and fair.

C is a forum which for all intents and purposes has no rules and regulations whatsoever and virtually no moderator presence at all.

Over time with these examples A will fall within your "no influence" group, as the regulations will stifle pretty much all discussion.

B will experience a similar, yet lesser effect, but there will be a wide and diverse set of opinions with only the things that are considered to be really, really, really crazy as having no influence.

C would experience the opposite. You will end up finding that opinions more in the centre will start to disappear while the remaining ones will become more polarised. Opinions that would be considered centrist will in the end become something of a fringe, as the opinions nearer the ends of the spectrum will be able to say what they want in a far louder voice while also driving away more moderate dissenters.

There are a variety of other factors that would ensure that opinions don't end up boiling down into a centrist one. The quality of the speaker for example. Someone that holds a fringe view can garner support because they are more eloquent then the person with the centrist view.

The number of places that people visit is probably the most important. I used three forums in my previous example and how the rules and regulations and their enforcement could effect the quality of discussion. But consider that there are potentially an infinite number of discussion boards and places where you can express an opinion. People won't visit all of them. Those that stick to a few places will not affect the opinions of people as much as someone who visits many different places.

There also is the flow of opinion. Even people who go to a few different forums will pass on opinions, and will also be influenced by the opinions of the places that they visit. So going back to my example even someone who only, say, inhabits A, will still be influenced slightly by someone who also visits B, or also visits B and C.

However you will never see a homogeneity on the internet for what would be the most simple reason. People are stubborn. And they can be really really stubborn. 9/11 "Truthers", Racial Supremacists, Religious Fundamentalists, etc. hold their opinions so stubbornly that in 99% of the cases they will not be influenced by any other opinions at all.

[Beerina]

For evolution, first came mutations due to chemical errors and the stray radiation beam or particle. Slow to adapt. Slow to move about the "gradient descent space".

Then came sexual reproduction. Faster on the GDS.

Then came brains. Now all behavior doesn't have to rely on hard-coded instincts honed via evolutionary pressures. The animals can learn from each other, and can, to a limited extent, figure out things by trying simple things until it works.

Even faster scouring.

Human level intelligence then invented writing -- the out of body, off-line storage mechanism for masses of data, which included things learned.

Faster scouring still.

Teh Intertubes is an extension of writing, basically. That's the level we are at.

The next step will be integrating Teh Internet into the mind via direct link. You may remain an individual, but you will share a massive off-body, but now on-line data storage facility. And possibly external core thinkers to aid you, be they other humans or maybe some AIs eventually.

[Mashuna]

I think that a definition of what the centre is will vary greatly by country.

[bokonon]

I think the OP's view of opinion shaping is incorrect. Maybe politicians choose their opinions by adding up the people who think one way and subtracting the people who think another way, but I don't. Some arguments are persuasive, and some are not. I change my opinion frequently, because new facts become known, or a new way of weighing the known facts is explained. Maybe the "center of mass" moves toward the center, but there is still a long tail at both ends of the bell curve.

[Arthur Denton]

Ever take 'statistics' in high school?

The more numbers you factor in, the more accurate and unchanging your statistic becomes. Fast forward to the internet - where everyone can express their opinion. Every opinion has a counter opinion. Evenutally any opinion left or right of center isn't enough to influence anyone.

And I think, have we inevitably realized that mankind has become a large, nuetralized mass or is the internet nothing but a meaningless, social experiment?

Yes, I made an economics school at Brazil, near home.

Everyone can express their opinion? Hardly. Despite the fact that this is supposed to be a skeptic realm, what do we see here, in this very forum? You can't express your thoughts without a limit, I cant preach gospels here or something in that line. But ok, lets follow.

Mankind is, by the power of the consumption incentives theory, becoming more and more alienated by the minute, IMO. We are taught to buy buy buy buy buy without thinking about it, at least I feel that way. It's hardly a matter about what is the need that I have for a new clothe, is the need to buy more clothes without actual need, just for fashion. So we're a neutralized mass but that's not about the internet, its about the social and economic patterns that have been sown over the years by, mainly, the Television and the marketing crews on every business. (Damn you, marketing! You little devil, you, massifying opinions!)

The internet is not a socializing experiment. It was intended to enable communications and data transfer on a wide area without the need of physical correspondence, in the speed of light. After it was launched, the potential for comm and advertisement was discovered by certain people, who realized that the best way to make the internet viable was to introduce the entertainment and social side to the web. IF it was not for those people, you, me and the rest of the world wouldn't feel the need to pay for the services, the servers would still be small and mostly used by companies and universities, for information traffic. But, with the development of computers, the internet became all shiny, with videos, and msn, and forums (holy JREF, protect us) and kiddy porn, so, you see, it had virtually endless space, low costs and virtual freedom for those who are involved. The internet just can't be used as a social experiment because the data that is gathered serves marketing purposes, and people here will try to hide their feelings and specially to hide themselves, which gives you a sense of power: you're in secrecy.

I doubt that a surveillance system through the internet would reveal enough data to have a heavily reliable sociological experiment made. I honestly think that the main conclusion that we'll arrive to is that we're sex maniacs, that Viagra is the most sold drug and that cheap fine watches and penis enlargements are common social rituals.

Which is a pity.

[shadron]

Ever take 'statistics' in high school?

The more numbers you factor in, the more accurate and unchanging your statistic becomes. Fast forward to the internet - where everyone can express their opinion. Every opinion has a counter opinion. Evenutally any opinion left or right of center isn't enough to influence anyone.

And I think, have we inevitably realized that mankind has become a large, nuetralized mass or is the internet nothing but a meaningless, social experiment?
Just because you can draw statistics from a mass of data does not mean the mass of data can be replaced by the statistics. The mass still has outliers, wild cards and anomalies which often far outweigh the amount of effect they have in budging the statistics. That is why congress critters still encourage mail and email to their offices, even though he polls have already told them what the average results will be.

If they never stressed the differences in your high school stats class, you need to go get your money back.

[The Man]

Was the internet inevitable?

Not until Al Gore “took the initiative in creating the Internet.”

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp



And I think, have we inevitably realized that mankind has become a large, nuetralized mass or is the internet nothing but a meaningless, social experiment?

Another alternative is that with such rapid communication of ideas and interactive exchanges (like this forum) it may serve to divide some people even more into segmented opinion groups. “Well thought I was in this group before, but now that I hear what that other group is saying, I’m more with that group but still in a group that opposes your group”. This “Human” experiment continues but is now just moving closer to real-time data collection and analysis.

[firestorm]

I can definitely see what you all are saying. Rather than homogenizing, we're pooling into opinionated 'tribes'. But then what's being lost? I may have a strong opinion and am ostracized on one board, so I pack up my toys and join another board, another tribe, until enough people share my viewpoint. Then me and my new friends ward off newbies who don't fit our group.

I've seen it many times on the internet and it feels like neutralization, but I guess it's human nature.

And btw, I would love if my high school would refund me just a little. :D

I definitely have to put my brain in gear before posting on this board! haha. I like this place already!

[Arthur Denton]

I can definitely see what you all are saying. Rather than homogenizing, we're pooling into opinionated 'tribes'. But then what's being lost? I may have a strong opinion and am ostracized on one board, so I pack up my toys and join another board, another tribe, until enough people share my viewpoint. Then me and my new friends ward off newbies who don't fit our group.

Yes, social mobility, yes.

I've seen it many times on the internet and it feels like neutralization, but I guess it's human nature.

Yes, but remember that it was never that easy to hide behind a mask, nor to change social group, I mean, today it's a matter of pointing and clicking to another link or trolling till you're banned/suspended/thrown off.

And btw, I would love if my high school would refund me just a little. :D

Wouldn't we all? :)

I definitely have to put my brain in gear before posting on this board! haha. I like this place already!

I feel the same way. Used to post on another forum before, because of the quite good grammar they used - being Brazilian :BRAZIL: it helped a lot with English. Now I've been attracted here by a friend who was from the same forum too. Social mobility, FTW!

[rocketdodger]

Ever take 'statistics' in high school?

The more numbers you factor in, the more accurate and unchanging your statistic becomes. Fast forward to the internet - where everyone can express their opinion. Every opinion has a counter opinion. Evenutally any opinion left or right of center isn't enough to influence anyone.

And I think, have we inevitably realized that mankind has become a large, nuetralized mass or is the internet nothing but a meaningless, social experiment?

Ever take 'economics' in high school?

Just because the blog-o-sphere is mush doesn't mean reality is mush. Or are you living in utter ignorance of the events going on around the world? Case in point -- China's great firewall. "Neutralized" is possibly one of the worst descriptors available...

[The Man]

I can definitely see what you all are saying. Rather than homogenizing, we're pooling into opinionated 'tribes'. But then what's being lost? I may have a strong opinion and am ostracized on one board, so I pack up my toys and join another board, another tribe, until enough people share my viewpoint. Then me and my new friends ward off newbies who don't fit our group.

I've seen it many times on the internet and it feels like neutralization, but I guess it's human nature.

And btw, I would love if my high school would refund me just a little. :D

I definitely have to put my brain in gear before posting on this board! haha. I like this place already!


Well I’m glad that you like it and I think you will find (if you haven’t already) that this forum has lots of strong and differing opinions. Sometimes a middle ground can be reached other times not and the discussion just continues in a circle until one or the other gets tired of posing. Usually we just wait around for newbies, make them feel comfortable and at ease with the form, then pounce on them before they know what happened (I'm kidding). So homogenizing, no, I like my milk homogenized not what others have to say. Segregating, perhaps, if that is your choice, but since you are on this forum I would have to surmise that, like me, it is not your choice either. I have never been on or had any interest in internet forums until I found this one and I engage in no others. Primarily for the reasons you stated, just some homogenized segregation of mustang owners, Beverly Hillbillies fans, left hand thread wing nut enthusiasts or whatever particular niche expounded by the forum. Here we have the niche of all niches with the additional caveats of education and skepticism. Like most things the internet or this forum are only what you make of them but for this forum at least, “neutralization” is a rare experience.

Unfortunately, I would probably have to pay my high school for all the trouble and damage I caused (when I did happen to go). So I would just like to call it even.