Mixing acrylic paints

[Aitch]

No, not about colour mixing, but mixing different makes of paint.

Does anyone know where I can find information on have safe(?) it is to mix acrylic paints from different companies? I've tried Google and looking at the relevant manufacturers' web sites to no avail. :(

The reason I ask is that I normally use Daler System 3 paints, but a special 'try-out' offer from a magazine means I will be receiving just three colours by Royal Talens.

I suppose I will end up e-mailing Rowney or Royal Talens, but suspect they will recommend against mixing - well they would wouldn't they? ;)

Thanks in advance.

[porch]

I do it all the time.

I honestly don't know what problem you think might come from it?

[Aitch]

Well, I was wondering about the different formulations for the acrylic binder - whether this difference would affect stability; for instance, would it affect drying? Or prevent it completely? Or cause the painting to crumble after a few months. That sort of thing.

However, as your experience seems to indicate otherwise, I shall stop worrying. Thanks.

[porch]

Sure thing.

I don't know anything about the chemistry of paints, but I think the worst thing that can happen is when you mix a good quality paint with a low quality paint, you get a medium quality paint. I've mixed acrylic "art" paint with acrylic latex house paint, no problems.

[Bikewer]

Likewise. My basket of paint tubes contains a rather wide variety of brands; never had any trouble mixing these together. Of course, these are all name-brand "artist" grade paints from Liquitex, Golden, etc.

[fuelair]

Well, I was wondering about the different formulations for the acrylic binder - whether this difference would affect stability; for instance, would it affect drying? Or prevent it completely? Or cause the painting to crumble after a few months. That sort of thing.

However, as your experience seems to indicate otherwise, I shall stop worrying. Thanks.
The odds are very high that the acrylic binders are the same - because people using the paints need to know drying time, etc, and will not likely be happy if it varies widely from brand to brand.

[Aitch]

Well, to be on the safe side, I tried asking Daler-Rowney, via their web-site.

The generated e-mail bounced!

Mind you, a copy was sent to the site admins, so something may come of it. Possibly.

Why has the word admins turned brown with a mouse-over definition of the term?

[Illustronic]

double post, sorry.

[Illustronic]

You really have nothing to worry about when it comes to acrylic binders, which is demonstrated in the popularity of acrylic based gesso. You just won't mess up an acrylic gessoed canvas. You can paint acrylics over cured oils, and I believe acrylic paint is the main binding medium or choice of mixed media artists, (but I could be wrong there).

My only concern is the pigments. "Flame" red is no Cadmium red, and so on. But I read somewhere (website) that the palette of a famous sci-fi artist Sid Mead uses a limited generic color choice with no cadmiums, colbalts, cerulean, barium, or the very dense Phthalocyanine (Phthalo) blue, to name a few.

[Aitch]

You really have nothing to worry about when it comes to acrylic binders, which is demonstrated in the popularity of acrylic based gesso. You just won't mess up an acrylic gessoed canvas.
Ah but in that case, you are painting onto an already dry surface; I was more concerned with mixing the wet paints.
You can paint acrylics over cured oils,
Is that right? I was under the impression, having read it in a number of places, that oil over acrylic was OK but acrylic over oil was a no-no?
My only concern is the pigments. "Flame" red is no Cadmium red, and so on.
Looking at the pigments used, there's a .pdf list on their site, the cadmiums appear to be based on naphthol and arylamide - the most permanent colours being based on iron, carbon, titanium and zinc. But as the System 3 range are generally *** rated for permanence with a few ****, I don't see any problems there. I have a couple of my paintings from the mid '80s, done with Daler acrylics, and there's no problems with them. Apart from the fact that they could do with a good cleaning!

Mind you, there's also a handful of * - the fluorescent colours - but I doubt I'll be using them :).

[porch]

Is that right? I was under the impression, having read it in a number of places, that oil over acrylic was OK but acrylic over oil was a no-no?


The potential problem isn't with acrylics on oils per se. With any paints you use, if you have an underlayer that dries more slowly than a layer on top of it, it can lead to the painting eventually cracking. I think it can take about a year for oil paint to fully cure, so even if you're putting oils on oils, unless you wait a year in between layers, you're supposed to paint from thin to thick.

Personally, I don't care too much. I doubt that there will be future generations of art historians and collectors cursing my name over my self destructive works. Even if that's the case . . . meh, too bad.

[Aitch]

Ah, OK. I thought it was to do with oil paint being less permeable, so that he acrylic paint couldn't get a grip (if you see what I mean :)). You learn something new everyday.

[Achán hiNidráne]

As a miniature wargamer who paints his own figures using acrylics, I mix various brands a lot. I keep a supply of "cheap" primary colors for the craft store paint aisle to mix with more expensive colors (e.g. Games Workshop, Vallejo, Reaper) if I need to shade or highlight. So far, I've never run into any problem if I mix them.

[gumboot]

Dude, stop worrying about the chemical make up of the paints and go paint!

And post images of the finished result for us to admire. :D

[Aitch]

And post images of the finished result for us to admire. :D

I'm not totally sure that 'admire' is the word you should be using, but we'll see. ;)

[Aitch]

BTW is there a thread somewhere where those with (delusions of) artistic talent can upload images of their work(s)?

ETA: I tried the search function, but got sidetracked by arguments about Monet, four year old girls and elephants! :)

[Aitch]

Aaagghh! I've just cleaned the only 2 of my paintings that still exist. And the (20 year old) varnish is discoloured. :(

Any ideas on how to remove varnish from old acrylic paintings would be gratefully received!

[paximperium]

Could you post the images of the fire and the end effects of the toxic fumes when you mix the paints?

[Gene L]

Beware, Aitech...despite all the optimistic go-aheads from the board here, I would like to point out that it is widely believed that the Tunguska Event in Siberia 1917 was the result of mixing acrylic paint brands by some now-dead Russian artist.

A word to the wise. :)

[Aitch]

Could you post the images of the fire and the end effects of the toxic fumes when you mix the paints?

If I survive... :covereyes

Beware, Aitech...despite all the optimistic go-aheads from the board here, I would like to point out that it is widely believed that the Tunguska Event in Siberia 1917 was the result of mixing acrylic paint brands by some now-dead Russian artist.

A word to the wise. :)

Eek! A time-travelling artist :eek: - acrylic paints being invented in the mid 1960s. :)

ETA: Or possibly the mid 1950s - there seems to be disagreement about this.

[kittynh]

hey post your paintings here!

I'd love to see them

I work in oils a lot and they are a bother. I'm doing a little more acrylic

Acrylic was the demon when I was in art school. IT WILL FADE!

oddly my arcylic paintings I've bought have held up quite well in even sunnyspots.

oil paints do have a LONG cure time. I would so NOT paint acrylic over oils!!

Mind you I have a friend that does before and after paintings. He buys old oil paintings from thrift stores and yard sales and 'updates" them using acrylics. they sell for quite a lot of money! (he includes a before shot of the painting). He paints over oils usually but they are quite OLD oils. And he does clean the painting first then applies the oils. Then revarnish.

Ask at a GOOD paint/art supply store. I usually pay someone to revarnish and clean my stuff, but then I have someone I really trust at the art store. I don't like to mess with it.

[kittynh]

now post some paintings!!!

remember, I'm a modern artist, I've admired dryer lint art.

[kittynh]

oh and for a decent price for your paintings... try acrylic on boob... it seems to be working for my daughter here on the forum

[Aitch]

hey post your paintings here!

I'd love to see them
I'll see if I can get decent images of them. But do remember, if I manage to upload the images - you asked for it. ;)
I work in oils a lot and they are a bother. I'm doing a little more acrylic
I tend to use acrylics for abstracts and oils for more representational works. Got round the 'bother' of oils (solvents etc) by going over to the water miscible ones - originally Pelikan, now W&N Artisan.
Acrylic was the demon when I was in art school. IT WILL FADE!

oddly my arcylic paintings I've bought have held up quite well in even sunnyspots.
B-b-but, they use the same pigments. :confused:
Ask at a GOOD paint/art supply store. I usually pay someone to revarnish and clean my stuff, but then I have someone I really trust at the art store. I don't like to mess with it.
Good point; a trip down to our local art shop will be scheduled asap. The last decent special-interest shop in Staines.
remember, I'm a modern artist, I've admired dryer lint art.
Hmmmm, I have a cigarette-paper collage in the planning stages... :boggled:
oh and for a decent price for your paintings... try acrylic on boob... it seems to be working for my daughter here on the forum
Look, I know I've got big(gish) boobs for a bloke, but there's no need to draw attention to the fact. :blush:

[Aitch]

Well, my e-mail to Daler must have finally reached them - just received a reply:

Steve,

Thank you for your inquiry, System 3 colour should be able to be mixed with other varieties of good quality acrylic. However we can not say for certain that all colours in the range will be mixable, if a problem is going to occur you should notice it when you first mix the two colours together. If there is no problem initially (i.e. it does not go sticky or lumpy etc.) then it is fairly safe to assume that the products are compatible.

On another note System 3 Acrylics are classed as good student acrylics and are on par "quality" wise with Amsterdam Standard Series Acrylics. The Amsterdam Expert Series acrylics are professional artists acrylics and are on par with our Cryla Acrylics which are definitely compatible with System 3.

I hope this helps

Steven Gorse
Research Chemist

So, now we know. :D

[Aitch]

OK Kittynh, you asked for it... ;)

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2435548aff8789385c.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=13515)

Not a good photo I'm afraid. Sorry. I just can't get on with digital cameras, dunno why, never had problems with 35mm. Need more practice, I suppose.

Details:

Acrylic (Daler Cryla) on board.
20 by 16 inches.

Based on an ID photo of a lady I worked with.
A bit Leger, influence-wise, IMO. With a hint of Lichtenstein?

[Rrose Selavy]

On a technical point , you can paint using oil over acrylic but never paint acrylic over oils.
It's not just the differing drying time but the fact that oils "dry "or solidify by oxidation, a process which virtually never completely stops, while acrylics dry by evaporation. The traditional "fat over lean"/ thick over thin method for oils is meant to minimize cracking as the thinner layer dries quicker the thicker layer underneath is still drying (and moving) and potentially could cause the thinner dried layer on top to stretch and crack - so it's to be avoided. With acrylic it's not such an issue though thick over thin is still a good approach to build up a painting.

On the OP question, You can pretty much mix acrylic brands of good quaility and similar consistency together - though for obvious reasons most manufacturers will discourage it.

[Aitch]

Well, as requested by kittynh and gumboot, I put up an example of my 'art'. No comments after two days...

One can only assume they are still in fits of laughter. I do hope the picture hasn't provoked either of them to do an Oedipus! :covereyes

[Rrose Selavy]

Aitch. Your painting looks fine.

[Aitch]

Aitch. Your painting looks fine.

Thanks. :) I'm not totally satisfied with it (what 'artist' ever is?), but it's one of the only two I haven't decided to paint over.

I've attached the other one below. It's a particularly bad photo (and my card reader is playing up, so I can't get a better one :(), but you get the idea.

Details:
Acrylic (Cryla again) on board.
20 by 16 inches (like everything I paint).

Painted in the style of Bridget Riley (and there's a Russian who paints in a similar way - name escapes for the moment).

I painted it because a guy I worked with (fundie creationist, but not a bad bloke apart from that!) who told me that it was impossible to paint a religious abstract. He admitted he was wrong, but didn't like the painting much.

[Rrose Selavy]

Oooh! I can do spoilers now...


Hint of Vasarely? Hungarian by birth then French, it seems.

[Aitch]

Hint of Vasarely? Hungarian by birth then French, it seems.


That's the chap - though he tended more to curves than Bridget did; well, at first anyway. :)

[Bikewer]

Whether a given pigment will fade or not due to light exposure has to do with the chemical properties of the pigment, not the medium. Quality, artist-grade paints use many of the same pigments now whether they are put up in oil, acrylic, or watercolor.
For use in outdoor environments, one can obtain pigments specifically formulated for this.

There is still a lot of silliness in print about how terrible "plastic" paints are; all media have their advantages and disadvantages.

[alfaniner]

..
Mind you I have a friend that does before and after paintings. He buys old oil paintings from thrift stores and yard sales and 'updates" them using acrylics. they sell for quite a lot of money! (he includes a before shot of the painting).

I'm not quite sure how I feel about this. I don't think I'd like someone "updating" a painting I did, even if they did purchase it. That deserves a thread discussion in itself. Updating a painting you didn't originally create (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=121825)