Is this how the Euro works?

[aerocontrols]

Small countries must make the sacrifices necessary to follow the rules, Germany and France (http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2079116) don't have to?



The Commission acknowledges that the French government is failing to keep its economy in line with EU requirements.

But this afternoon in Brussels it ducked the embarrassing option of punishing a country which says its domestic requirements on spending and deficits mean it cannot meet the strictures of the much-maligned Stability and Growth Pact.

The Pact was invented by the Germans to keep weak national economies on their toes in the single currency zone. Countries failing to keep to deficit and debt targets faced reprimands and cash sanctions.

In fact, it is Germany itself and now France which have ignored the rules on debt and public deficits.

Germany has escaped EU sanctions by promising to do better. Now France is escaping sanctions too – despite admitting it can’t.

[Ove]

Yup,,,, that's one of the reasons why i am very much against it. This is precisely what will happen.
Unfortunately a majority of my fellow countrymen seems to think otherwise, i hope they get more enlightened before we are going to vote again (we voted NO the first time).

[a_unique_person]

The smaller countries know they are along for the ride. The theory is that, even if they are too small to have much influence, the benefits will still be substantial.

[Ove]

The theory is that, even if they are too small to have much influence, the benefits will still be substantial.

The THEORY yes............. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Zep]

I like the pictures and colours of the banknotes...

[plindboe]

It's ironic that Germany invented it, and now ignores the rules because they are the ones in trouble.:roll: I guess they didn't expect the world to go so much downhill. But they, and the rest of EU, must be beginning to realize how stupid the pact really is.

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The smaller countries know they are along for the ride. The theory is that, even if they are too small to have much influence, the benefits will still be substantial.
Depends on who you ask. People against EU have quite different theories.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Ove


The THEORY yes............. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Time will tell. There will be small countries in and out of the Euro pool. I await the outcome of this experiment.

However, it is worth pointing out that the Euro, which was weak against the US dollar since it was created, is now gaining strength.

[Ove]

However, it is worth pointing out that the Euro, which was weak against the US dollar since it was created, is now gaining strength.

I seem to remember different. As far as i remember the Euro has been strong against the dollar for some years but has actually lost a little recently.

I like the pictures and colours of the banknotes...

I like the picture and colours of monopoly money too but i prefer our Kroner & Øre...;)

[Flo]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
However, it is worth pointing out that the Euro, which was weak against the US dollar since it was created, is now gaining strength.


Which is not necessarily a good thing for the European economy: less exports to and less tourists from the US, for a start.


Small countries must make the sacrifices necessary to follow the rules, Germany and France don't have to?

This is unfortunately the way any powerful (for a given amount of "powerful") country will behave in front of rules, political or economic, it has agreed to but is momentarily contrary to its perceived interests. :wink:

The good point is that it will force France and Germany to give some leeway to smaller countries.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by plindboe
It's ironic that Germany invented it, and now ignores the rules because they are the ones in trouble.:roll:

Well actually, its France ignoring the rules. France? Ignoring the rules? NEVER! :rolleyes:

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Flo

The good point is that it will force France and Germany to give some leeway to smaller countries.

How is that going to work? IMO, France and Germany will carry on doing exactly what they want to do, just as they always have done within the EU.

[Drooper]

Originally posted by aerocontrols
Small countries must make the sacrifices necessary to follow the rules, Germany and France (http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2079116) don't have to?





In fact that is how the EU operates in all things.

There is something known as L'exception Francais which pretty much means what it says.

Added to this, Germany and France have a stadning pact that they will agree between them a position on any issues and then promote a united front on any EU negotitations. In practice that means they trade off something for each other and then try to force it down everyone elses throats. That most recent outrageous example was the way they scuppered reform of the Common Agricultural Policy.

[Cecil]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
However, it is worth pointing out that the Euro, which was weak against the US dollar since it was created, is now gaining strength. But the US government is undergoing a currency devaluation campaign to spur the economy. Since the start of this year, the Euro has fallen about 10% against the Canadian dollar, 10% against the Australian dollar, and has held about even against the Japanese yen and British pound.

[shuize]

I think all the little countries of Europe are missing another great opportunity to shut up.

Isn't that the French line anyway?

[Chaos]

First thing: had anybody in Germany bothered to ask the people, they´d have got a resounding "NO!" to the Euro. In fact, I think our answer would have been heard in Brussels without loudspeakers... :D
But nobody asked us. Lately, German politicians have had a rather peculiar notion of democracy - they are against referendums because these would "put too much weight on the opinion of the people".

Second, the stability pact was largely a creation of our former chancellor, Helmut Kohl (aka "Der Dicke", The Fat One). Towards the end of what was to be his last term (he was the first chancellor in Germany to be voted out of office instead of being toppled by a political crisis) he was much more interested in Europa and in his place in the history textbooks instead in doing his job. The pact was, IMHO, an arrogant attempt to shut out the weaker EU economies, like Greece and Portugal, to make the Euro zone a more exclusive club.

Third, don´t they anything positive about Euro bills. They look like monopoly money, and they might some day soon be worth exactly as much - if the economy keeps going downhill like that.

Fourth - to our American posters: don´t think of the EU as a United States of Europe attempt. It is a giant, inefficient bureaucracy, run by politicians for politicians.

Edited to add:
Fifth point: yes, punish France and Germany, as hard as you can. But don´t let the states, i.e. the taxpayers, pay the fines. Fine the politicians. Wring the last Euro out of them; they have done nothing to earn them.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Chaos
Towards the end of what was to be his last term (he was the first chancellor in Germany to be voted out of office instead of being toppled by a political crisis) he was much more interested in Europa and in his place in the history textbooks instead in doing his job.


Strange...... reminds me of someone...... lives in a townhouse in Downing street.....

Our politicians wont give us a referendum on the new EU constitution because they know the massive "NO!!" will reverberate to such an extent it will cause earthquakes in China and tsunamis off the coast of hawaii.

Unfortunately for our beloved leaders, they have already pledged a referendum before entering the euro and so are unable to actually hold such a referendum because of the reasons given above.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by a_unique_person:
However, it is worth pointing out that the Euro, which was weak against the US dollar since it was created, is now gaining strength.

Which is one reason behind rising unemployment in Germany, since German manufactures are increasingly expensive. It's not very good news for Ireland either, considering that we do most of our trade with countries outside the Eurozone.

The smaller countries know they are along for the ride. The theory is that, even if they are too small to have much influence, the benefits will still be substantial.

Actually there's been a distinct absence of positive arguments for EMU membership. Rather it's proponents prefer to dwell on negative argumetns and doomsday scenarios, "we will lose influence, inward investment yada yada yada". It's been interesting to observe what's happened in the UK, where all of the pro-euro camp's arguments have been demolished. The latest was that Brits would embrace the Euro after using it so much on holidays.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Jon_in_london:
Strange...... reminds me of someone...... lives in a townhouse in Downing street.....

Our politicians wont give us a referendum on the new EU constitution because they know the massive "NO!!" will reverberate to such an extent it will cause earthquakes in China and tsunamis off the coast of hawaii.

I'd actually love a referendum to take place in the UK. Can you imagine the copy in "The Sun"! :roll:

Seriously, Tony won't risk a referendum on anything, knowing full well that the electorate is just waiting for the chance to kick the current administration square in the nethers.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The smaller countries know they are along for the ride. The theory is that, even if they are too small to have much influence, the benefits will still be substantial.

Europe once again becomes a labratory for economic theories from Germany. I hope this one works out better than the last.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Well actually, its France ignoring the rules.

Both France and Germany are ignoring this particular rule. The difference between the two, according to the article, is that Germany is promising to try to do better next year, while France is so far from meeting the requirement that they don't bother with even promises.

MattJ

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Strange...... reminds me of someone...... lives in a townhouse in Downing street.....

Our politicians wont give us a referendum on the new EU constitution because they know the massive "NO!!" will reverberate to such an extent it will cause earthquakes in China and tsunamis off the coast of hawaii.

Unfortunately for our beloved leaders, they have already pledged a referendum before entering the euro and so are unable to actually hold such a referendum because of the reasons given above.

Well, our beloved leader has said that he wants to wait for the right conditions before he holds a referendum. I suspect these conditions will be meteological in nature (the words "freeze over" and "hell" seem significant here) before he gets the result he wants.

On the other hand, I'm all for our European colleagues to bring their hard-earned euros over to spend in Britiain. Just not at the expense of stirling, or our sovereignty.

[Flo]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


How is that going to work? IMO, France and Germany will carry on doing exactly what they want to do, just as they always have done within the EU.

For a while, yes, but they're slowly painting themselves into a corner, ensuring more and more countries will demand exceptions too, with less and less reasons and leverage to refuse. Furthermore, they will at some point realise how dim the chance of any other European country entering the euro with the example they give.

I'm not seeing I'll live long enough to see that happen, though :D

[Flo]

Originally posted by Drooper
There is something known as L'exception Francais which pretty much means what it says.


A basic French saying is "l'exception confirme la règle" (the exception confirms the rule). It refers primarily to French grammar, where you can't find a rule that actually works, and you have to spend all your time at school discovering the exceptions that doe. It has naturally pervaded all aspects of the French behavior and is now believed to have affected even our genes. Of course, given the fact that other countries haven't been subjected to that mutation, they must obey the rules and are not concerned by the exceptions !;)

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Flo



A basic French saying is "l'exception confirme la règle" (the exception confirms the rule). It refers primarily to French grammar, where you can't find a rule that actually works, and you have to spend all your time at school discovering the exceptions that doe. It has naturally pervaded all aspects of the French behavior and is now believed to have affected even our genes. Of course, given the fact that other countries haven't been subjected to that mutation, they must obey the rules and are not concerned by the exceptions !;)

We have the same saying in German, "Ausnahmen bestätigen die Regel" (okay, we say "exceptions", in plural, but it means the same). This is true for our grammar, too, and it applies for most other areas of life (just look at our tax laws - 70% of the world´s tax legislation is in German).
Maybe it is really a genetical trait. Small wonder France and German are usually so close politically.:D

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by Ove
Yup,,,, that's one of the reasons why i am very much against it. This is precisely what will happen.
Unfortunately a majority of my fellow countrymen seems to think otherwise, i hope they get more enlightened before we are going to vote again (we voted NO the first time).

I seem to remember you had a funny analogy about it. One I can relate to. You said the EU was like your kids asking for ice cream, "Can I have some?" NO "Can I have some?" NO "Can I have some?" NO "Can I have some?" YES already just leave me alone...

:roll:

[shanek]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
The smaller countries know they are along for the ride. The theory is that, even if they are too small to have much influence, the benefits will still be substantial.

Not really. If you want to talk economic theory, the reason for having separate currencies in the first place is to make sure you as a small country don't lose capital to larger countries. With separate currencies, capital can only leave the local economy in the form of an exchange—which means the money is coming right back in. But with a common currency, there's nothing to stop people making Euros in a smaller country from spending them in a larger one, and no guarantee that the capital will flow back in.