How to get Addicted to Heroin, Lesson 1

[Mr Manifesto]

I've used a fair range of illegal drugs. Didn't get into heroin because I really didn't want to associate with the heroin dealers, who, to me, were a different class of crim to your usual dope dealer. I had a friend who used it occasionally, and he didn't turn into a ranting, staring wizened junky, but it still wasn't really enough incentive for me to try it. Since then, I've seen more than enough junkies stabbing one another in the back, making all kinds of plays, double-crossing, scamming, cheating, cutting corners, you name it. I finally thought, well, how do I know one of these guys isn't going to cut it with borax because they couldn't afford icing sugar and that's all there was in the house?

A lot of people in my year in high school became drug addicts. Most of them were in the same clique. Weird, I thought. Especially because these people were the 'beautiful people', and also the moralisers. One of them bit my head off because I taught my peer support group how to stage dive as a trust exercise. Another ranted and raved at me for smoking. She lost two jobs due to her addiction, and now has to start her life from scratch because no one will hire her in her chosen career path.

How did these people get addicted, I wondered. They were from middle-class families, well educated, mostly no history of abuse (one or two of them would have been diddled by a relative if statistics are anything to go by). Where did they go wrong?

Then I met a friend of mine who was also friends with a lot of the people in the clique in question. I dropped out of high school, so I wasn't aware that the person who introduced them all to heroin was a friend of theirs who hung around with them. Apparently, he had difficulties initially getting them to try heroin (every good junky likes to get his friends hooked: it promotes solidarity, and opens opportunities if you're a dealer, as this person was).

But he finally cracked them by using a classic ego-play: "Only stupid people get addicted to heroin".

I had to love a disingenous statement like that: almost a damned lie, almost the complete truth, not quite enough of either. Perfect for fooling the unwise.

The question these people should have asked, but didn't, was, "How do I know I'm a stupid person?"

[Dorian Gray]

If these describe you, then you are an idiot who can become addicted to drugs.

- You make claims like "I am the Father of Conservative thought" and " I have talent on loan from God"
- You cannot withstand the pressure of having a guest or even an audience with an opinion or political affiliation different from your own
- You have written several books riddled with errors purchased only by people who cannot think for themselves
- You have had a scathing book written about you
- You have recently been called on your racist and hypocritical statements

[Tony]

What illegal drugs did you use?

[Mr Manifesto]

Marijuana, LSD, injected amphetimines a couple of times (I prefer the head highs to the body highs), mushrooms... I think that's about it.

Mind you, I don't party nearly as much as I used to. Last time I smoked was for the Marilyn Manson concert, and it only took one cone to knock me off my feet.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Marijuana, LSD, injected amphetimines a couple of times (I prefer the head highs to the body highs), mushrooms... I think that's about it.

Mind you, I don't party nearly as much as I used to. Last time I smoked was for the Marilyn Manson concert, and it only took one cone to knock me off my feet.


How old are you? We'd get along, except for the injecting *****, im not down with that. How long ago was the Marilyn Manson concert?

[KelvinG]

With all the drugs I've done, I've never been into injecting. I don't particularly like needles, and I've always steered clear of heroin. I'm worried I might like it to much!!

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Tony



How old are you? We'd get along, except for the injecting *****, im not down with that. How long ago was the Marilyn Manson concert?

I'm 30. The concert was... erm... Last month. Whenever MM played in Newcastle, Australia. I probably still have the ticket somewhere.


I'm not big on injecting either, that's one of the reasons I gave up speed (you can't really get the kick by drink it or snorting it). Every time I did it, I kept imagining tiny crystals shredding my arteries.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by KelvinG
With all the drugs I've done, I've never been into injecting. I don't particularly like needles, and I've always steered clear of heroin. I'm worried I might like it to much!!

I can think of a lot of reasons not to take heroin, but your reason comes the closest. I read Trainspotting and thought, "This is it! The drug that makes you not give a crap anymore except scoring!" But who wants that kind of life?

[MoeFaux]

Everyone around me used drugs growing up, and I never did.
I never have, and I never will. It's just not my style.

[Tony]

Both Kevin and I went to raves, I cant speak for him, but I saw plenty of people get whacked out on all kinds of *****.

[ImpyTimpy]

I've had friends who used LSD quiet regularly... I've also known a guy from highschool (good old years hehe) that used to take different drugs on regular basis. Quiet a few times he'd get a bad dose and be very sick. The problem with drugs I have is you don't know what's inside them.

Having said that, I have smoked marijuana before but my feelings on it are mixed. I honestly don't see what the big deal is...

[Jessica Blue]

In a way I regret not having tried LSD,because of the "door-opening of the mind" possibilities but I was always afraid of flipping and climbing the walls. I have tried a few drugs, speed, mushrooms and marijuana[who hasn't?] but these days I am not interested in any illegal drugs, though I do have an unhealthy relationship with a couple of legal ones.

I was an occasional, social marijuana smoker but at some point and for reasons I don't understand it began to make me feel paranoid, which was awful. I think there is such a thing as an addictive personality, a gene which makes certain people susceptible to substance abuse...and some just have a greater need for escape.

Life is easier without addictions...I'd like to shake mine.

[JAR]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Having said that, I have smoked marijuana before but my feelings on it are mixed. I honestly don't see what the big deal is...
Yeah, that's what I think. These things are bad for people, yet they use them anyway despite the fact that they don't greatly improve the quality of life, and often times, greatly decrease the quality of life.

I have discontinued using nasal snuff and smoking cigarettes, pipe tobacco, and cigars for the reason that I couldn't get over the fear of diseases, even though I was smoking sparingly. I learned a lesson, hypochondria and tobacco don't mix. My paranoia of tobacco related diseases has gotten so bad that I go into a slight state of shock just thinking about tobacco.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by Tony
Both Kevin and I went to raves, I cant speak for him, but I saw plenty of people get whacked out on all kinds of *****.

Absolutely. My favourite game to play at a rave was "Guess what he's/she's on."
Of course, not everyone knows what they are on. Unless your absolutely sure of the source of your drug, you could be ingesting something different than what you think.
For instance, a lot of E is cut with speed. Some pills passing as E might be only speed. Or something else, like PCP for instance.
Or, worse yet, it turns out to be nothing at all!

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by JAR

Yeah, that's what I think. These things are bad for people, yet they use them anyway despite the fact that they don't greatly improve the quality of life, and often times, greatly decrease the quality of life.

I have discontinued using nasal snuff and smoking cigarettes, pipe tobacco, and cigars for the reason that I couldn't get over the fear of diseases, even though I was smoking sparingly. I learned a lesson, hypochondria and tobacco don't mix. My paranoia of tobacco related diseases has gotten so bad that I go into a slight state of shock just thinking about tobacco.



This article might make you feel better:

Recently interviewed, Sek Yi and his wife Long Ouk, 108, attributed their longevity to a combination of tobacco and prayer.
'World's oldest man' dies (http://www.itv.com/news/94618.html)


Anyone who's done heroine can tell you it is the mother of all drugs. It is like an instant orgasm. That's what makes it so dangerous, pretty soon you don't care about anything else, especially your own life.

[EdipisReks]

i draw the line at pot and absinthe, myself.

[Charlie Monoxide]

So, all you criminals are taking illegal drugs? Don't you know the government has been fighting this "war on drugs" since Nixon? Heck, now you're supporting terrorists. Shame ....

From what I've read on herion (Jim Carroll - Basketball Diaries, John Lydon aka Sid Vicious biography, William Burroughs etc.) the first time you do it, you get horribly sick. After that it's suppose to be blissful and addictive. I can't understand someone doing something that's makes you sick, then returning to it. We really have no clue what is in the drugs and this is especially scary for injectables. In Vancouver over the last few years the herion has been very potent and there have been many overdoses (unintentionial probably).

I've done my share of various drugs. Never injected. I now prefer good hash, good red wine, and quality beer. It irks me that 1/3 of my preferred drugs of choice makes me a criminal.

Charlie (Reagan - tear down this war on drugs) Monoxide

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Jessica Blue
In a way I regret not having tried LSD,because of the "door-opening of the mind" possibilities but I was always afraid of flipping and climbing the walls. I have tried a few drugs, speed, mushrooms and marijuana[who hasn't?] but these days I am not interested in any illegal drugs, though I do have an unhealthy relationship with a couple of legal ones.


'Shrooms are pretty well the same as LSD. though LSD is a bit more tense and nervy it doesny have a 'body load' so you dont feel you are glued to whatever it is you are lying on. I've seen people having a really bad time on hallucinogens, including myself once.

Certain drugs can be a lot of fun when taken responsibly, others are just plain bad.

[Cleopatra]

I have a question. Why do you do drugs?

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I have a question. Why do you do drugs?

because they are fun and interesting.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by EdipisReks


because they are fun and interesting.

That's an original theory. I thought that since antiquity people were using drugs because they needed them in order to have fun. They used drugs in order to accomplish something that were unable to otherwise.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


That's an original theory. I thought that since antiquity people were using drugs because they needed them in order to have fun. They used drugs in order to accomplish something that were unable to otherwise.

Its the truth Cleo, people take drugs because they are fun. All of this 'he takes drugs because he was abused as a child yadayadayada' is a load of old balls.

You dont take drugs because you NEED them to have fun, you can have fun without drugs (unless you are a serious addict) but you can have fun with drugs too. Just like you can have fun playing tennis but you dont NEED to play tennis to have fun.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Its the truth Cleo, people take drugs because they are fun. All of this 'he takes drugs because he was abused as a child yadayadayada' is a load of old balls.

I don't buy this theory either.

You dont take drugs because you NEED them to have fun, you can have fun without drugs (unless you are a serious addict) but you can have fun with drugs too. Just like you can have fun playing tennis but you dont NEED to play tennis to have fun. [/B]

The concept of a sport is the absolute opposite of the concept of drug use.

The athlete--even the amateur--finds pleasure and strength in the effort he puts in order to accomplish the goal a specific sport sets to him--at the end he draws pleasure from himself. The drug user depends on something outside himself, he depends on the drug in order to find pleasure this is the reason why he takes them.

The use of drugs is not a sport is a habit, like drinking or smoking.

[Jon_in_london]

OK its not a perfect analogy but I think you get my meaning.

If you like, swap tennis with watching TV, listening to music, posting on the JREF boards, masturbation etc etc...

[Cain]

Why do you folks have an aversion to injecting? You gotta think about drugs from a libertarian, free-market oriented perspective: the drug dealer has an incentive against you messing up your life, ODing et cetera. You see, if you destroy your life by becoming poor and stuff, then you'll eventually resort to stealing and finally end up in jail. That's terrible for business.

This is precisely why my friends never fear purchasing anything spiked or laced. If a drug dealer f*cks you up, then you won't buy from him ever again (and you'll tell all your druggy friends to stay clear).

For further evidence please refer to any of Shanek's posts on the FDA. It's regulation that kills people. Oh, sure, some people might say that drugs aren't really operating in a free-market because they're BANNED. So once corporate America becomes the pushers (assuming zero regulation), people will have nothing to fear. Businesses -- like the tobacco industry, for example -- have an incentive against people hurting themselves. Why would they sell a deadly product? It makes about as little sense as somone polluting their own land.

There is no caffeine in chocolate, either. That's an idiotic myth perpetuated by governments who rely on FORCE to SEIZE our FREEDOM and PROPERTY.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
OK its not a perfect analogy but I think you get my meaning.

If you like, swap tennis with watching TV, listening to music, posting on the JREF boards, masturbation etc etc...

Again, in all the examples you listed at the end the indvidual finds the pleasure in himself.The individual is the sprink of pleasure and satisfaction.

How can you compare the use of drugs with a debate or even with masturbation?

The regular drugs users seek elsewhere what they cannot find in themselves.

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
How can you compare the use of drugs with a debate or even with masturbation?

The regular drugs users seek elsewhere what they cannot find in themselves.

... er, a bit like a debate or playing a sport, then?

What if I eat a nice meal? Doesn't my mood change? Have I not had to find something elsewhere that I couldn't find in myself?

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
How can you compare the use of drugs with a debate or even with masturbation?
Oh yes, and according to Roxy Music, love is the drug. I'm sure that can be extended to self-love.

[a_unique_person]

1) Those who are slaves of pleasure use drugs.
2) Those who are experiencing a life of pain use drugs.
3) Alcohol, caffeine and tobacco are drugs.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


Again, in all the examples you listed at the end the indvidual finds the pleasure in himself.The individual is the sprink of pleasure and satisfaction.

How can you compare the use of drugs with a debate or even with masturbation?

The regular drugs users seek elsewhere what they cannot find in themselves.

You cant watch TV 'whithin yourself' I suppose you can listen to the music in your head and if you have a multiple personality disorder you can have a debate with yourself........

When you take a drug like LSD, you really find what is in yourself. Your experience is determined by who and what you are................

[a_unique_person]

BS. LSD, or what may be sold to you as LSD, only alters the way you mind works for a period of time. All it may be doing is tickling the "this is truth" buttons.

[Tony]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
I've also known a guy from highschool (good old years hehe) that used to take different drugs on regular basis.


Mixing drugs is the best. My friends and I used to have contests to see how many different drugs we could be on at the same time. My record is five.

[a_unique_person]

You are a conservative drug taker. You appear to think that taking drugs automatically makes you a lefty or druggie. This is not so. Ref: Rush Limbaugh.

[Tony]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
You are a conservative drug taker. You appear to think that taking drugs automatically makes you a lefty or druggie. This is not so. Ref: Rush Limbaugh.


WTF?? Are you talking to me? If you are, you havent got a *****ng clue what you're talking about.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by Cain
Why do you folks have an aversion to injecting? You gotta think about drugs from a libertarian, free-market oriented perspective: the drug dealer has an incentive against you messing up your life, ODing et cetera. You see, if you destroy your life by becoming poor and stuff, then you'll eventually resort to stealing and finally end up in jail. That's terrible for business.

This is precisely why my friends never fear purchasing anything spiked or laced. If a drug dealer f*cks you up, then you won't buy from him ever again (and you'll tell all your druggy friends to stay clear).

For further evidence please refer to any of Shanek's posts on the FDA. It's regulation that kills people. Oh, sure, some people might say that drugs aren't really operating in a free-market because they're BANNED. So once corporate America becomes the pushers (assuming zero regulation), people will have nothing to fear. Businesses -- like the tobacco industry, for example -- have an incentive against people hurting themselves. Why would they sell a deadly product? It makes about as little sense as somone polluting their own land.

There is no caffeine in chocolate, either. That's an idiotic myth perpetuated by governments who rely on FORCE to SEIZE our FREEDOM and PROPERTY.

Anytime you take an illicit drug you are taking a chance. It is a risky endevor to be sure. This is one of the reasons that I don't do many drugs anymore.
And not everyone who uses illicit drugs is a libertarian. When it comes to drugs, I might share some of the same viewpoints as libertarians, but I ain't one.
And I happen to believe in the FDA.
Don't try and paint everyone with a single brush stroke please.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Charlie Monoxide
John Lydon aka Sid Vicious biography

::ahem:: John Lydon was Johnny Rotten. Sid Vicious was Simon Beverly. Probably.

[MoeFaux]

Man, I just don't get druggies.
In my real life, I won't talk to anyone you does drugs. Even if it's "just pot" "only every once in a while", I don't want to have a thing to do with you.
I think using is sign of immaturity. If you can't figure out how to have a good time without being wacked out of your mind, you're no fun to me.
I'll talk to people who use on the board. And you can't avoid people you know through work or old school friends. But, all of my close friends are completley sober. I'll never date anyone who isn't sober, either.
I've never done drugs, I don't drink, or smoke, or drink caffiene. I just don't get the need to be high.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


Again, in all the examples you listed at the end the indvidual finds the pleasure in himself.The individual is the sprink of pleasure and satisfaction.

How can you compare the use of drugs with a debate or even with masturbation?

The regular drugs users seek elsewhere what they cannot find in themselves.

Hang on, are you saying that by watching TV the individual obtains the pleasure within themselves? If so, what happens when you take the TV away?

All drugs do is either stimulate certain glands, or certain centres within the brain to create pleasure. For me, the true pleasure with marijuana and mushrooms (don't take LSD no more, too expensive, too unreliable (I'm not paying $25 for postage stamp again)) is thinking and experiencing an altered reality.

Imagine a fun park with an attraction where, for $25, you can experience true zero gravity for an hour. How many people do you think would line up to experience an altered form of reality for an hour? Now what if these people were told that, if they used the ride too many times, they'd experience irreversable bone decay. Do you think that would stop many people from using it?

Your problem is you are using the 'passive user' model of the drug abuser, which assumes that the user only wants pleasure, and must use artifical means of obtaining it. Bunk. You might as well say that people who enjoy TV can only get pleasure from an artificial source- or even those who play tennis, since clearly 'nature' didn't intend for humankind to swing a tennis racket around. We know this because of tennis elbow, torn hamstrings, and other cute tennis-related injuries.

While there are certainly those who only seem to be able to get pleasure from drugs, like alchoholics, Just because some A are B doesn't mean all B are A.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
Man, I just don't get druggies.
In my real life, I won't talk to anyone you does drugs. Even if it's "just pot" "only every once in a while", I don't want to have a thing to do with you.
I think using is sign of immaturity. If you can't figure out how to have a good time without being wacked out of your mind, you're no fun to me.
I'll talk to people who use on the board. And you can't avoid people you know through work or old school friends. But, all of my close friends are completley sober. I'll never date anyone who isn't sober, either.
I've never done drugs, I don't drink, or smoke, or drink caffiene. I just don't get the need to be high.

My above post is for you as well. Your view of drug-taking is too simplistic.

[MoeFaux]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


My above post is for you as well. Your view of drug-taking is too simplistic.

Fine, you can have your opinion, and I can have mine.
If you do drugs, you'll never get close to me.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


(don't take LSD no more, too expensive, too unreliable (I'm not paying $25 for postage stamp again))


25$?$? :eek:

Damn, we always paid 5$ for ours, sometimes 10$ for liquid. Nice post btw.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Tony



25$?$? :eek:

Damn, we always paid 5$ for ours, sometimes 10$ for liquid. Nice post btw.

Our home is girt by sea (that's Aussie for 'we're nothing but a f***ing great island'). All our drugs have to come in by ship or plane, and apparently customs are efficient enough at stopping the drugs and drug making equipment coming in to jack the price up to $25AU (U$17.50. Probably).

Our only other alternative is the good ol' Aussie way. But do you have any idea how long it takes to get a single tab of acid from a wombat's butt?

[Aoidoi]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
But, all of my close friends are completley sober. I'll never date anyone who isn't sober, either.
I've never done drugs, I don't drink, or smoke, or drink caffiene. I just don't get the need to be high. Damn, you had me until caffeine. :D

(not entirely true, I do drink alcohol every once in a while. My chief vice is coke/pepsi/brown fizzy stuff, though.)

As a general rule I don't intentionally mess with my internal chemistry. I drink coke because I like the taste. I drink alcohol because it's annoying to pay 3 bucks for a coke at a comedy club (or whatnot). Never felt the need to do anything else. Never felt the benefits would outweigh the costs.

Frankly, the most mind altering things I do are computer games. ;)

[Tony]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Our home is girt by sea (that's Aussie for 'we're nothing but a f***ing great island'). All our drugs have to come in by ship or plane, and apparently customs are efficient enough at stopping the drugs and drug making equipment coming in to jack the price up to $25AU (U$17.50. Probably).


Being in a big city relatively close to the Mexican border offers many benefits in the area of cheaper drugs. In Houston you would pay 20$ (sometimes 25$) for one pill of "X". In New Orleans or Memphis I've seen people sell and pay for "X" as high as 40$. To me, that's not worth it, hell!, 20$ dollars isn’t worth it anymore.

[Cain]

Originally posted by KelvinG
Anytime you take an illicit drug you are taking a chance.

Negative. See above post on rational self-interest.

It is a risky endevor to be sure.

Negative. See above sentence referring to above post. [/sarcasm]

And not everyone who uses illicit drugs is a libertarian.

I never said or suggested that everyone who takes drugs is a libertarian.

When it comes to drugs, I might share some of the same viewpoints as libertarians, but I ain't one.

Me too. [/seriousness]

[Exec Sarc]

And I happen to believe in the FDA.

Statist.

Don't try and paint everyone with a single brush stroke please.

Negative.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


You cant watch TV 'whithin yourself' I suppose you can listen to the music in your head and if you have a multiple personality disorder you can have a debate with yourself........

What??? Are we talking about the extremes here or about pathological situations?

When you take a drug like LSD, you really find what is in yourself. Your experience is determined by who and what you are................

As Unique pointed out you find S***. This feeling lasts as long as the effect of the drug lasts.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


What??? Are we talking about the extremes here or about pathological situations?



As Unique pointed out you find S***. This feeling lasts as long as the effect of the drug lasts.

I'm just wondering if you've taken any of these drugs before, Cleo. I ask because you don't seem to know much about them.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
As Unique pointed out you find S***. This feeling lasts as long as the effect of the drug lasts.


And how much experience do you have with LSD?

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Hang on, are you saying that by watching TV the individual obtains the pleasure within themselves? If so, what happens when you take the TV away?

First of all I wasn't the one who compared the use of drugs with watching TV, with doing sports, with debating etc.

We all need stimulation to function, especially intellectual simulation. Watching TV, reading a book, listening to music , makes you think, makes your brain to emit adrenaline and you can get stimulated.

All drugs do is either stimulate certain glands, or certain centres within the brain to create pleasure. For me, the true pleasure with marijuana and mushrooms (don't take LSD no more, too expensive, too unreliable (I'm not paying $25 for postage stamp again)) is thinking and experiencing an altered reality.

Altered reality? What sort of reality is the one you need chemistry to experience it?

a fun park with an attraction where, for $25, you can experience true zero gravity for an hour. How many people do you think would line up to experience an altered form of reality for an hour? Now what if these people were told that, if they used the ride too many times, they'd experience irreversable bone decay. Do you think that would stop many people from using it?

So you problem is that you want to alter your reality for an hour.I agree and I think this is exactly the point of using drugs.
There are many ways to change your reality, the easiest way is the use of drugs.

Your probleu are using the 'passive user' model of the drug abuser, which assumes that the user only wants pleasure, and must use artifical means of obtaining it. Bunk. You might as well say that people who enjoy TV can only get pleasure from an artificial source- or even those who play tennis, since clearly 'nature' didn't intend for humankind to swing a tennis racket around. We know this because of tennis elbow, torn hamstrings, and other cute tennis-related injuries.

The only energetic users I know are the "Hassassins" that they were taking drugs in order to slaughter people.
Also, the poets that they were using drugs in order to get an inspiration.

Both categories searched in drugs what they couldn't find in themselves: courage and inspiration.

And one more thing.It's not tennis per se that gives you the pleasure but the effort you put and the pleasure you get from the accomplishment! For Christ sake!

[Mr Manifesto]

Point:When you take a drug like LSD, you really find what is in yourself. Your experience is determined by who and what you are................
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Counter-point: As Unique pointed out you find S***. This feeling lasts as long as the effect of the drug lasts.

If we can come up with one instance where an effect has outlasted the drug's effects on the mind, weh ave disproven Cleo's counter-point.

In other words...

It's anecdote time!

Five years ago, I was in a sucky relationship with a girl I had no common ground with. I could see the relationship was going to finish, and I felt terrible about it. Even though I had nothing in common with her, I still wanted the relationship to continue even though it would have done both of us more harm than good.

On impulse, I took acid.

When you are 'straight', you can avoid unpleasant thoughts by changing the subject in your mind. I might be worried about losing my job right now, but I can forget my worries by thinking instead about drug taking, for example. You don't have that luxury on acid. Your brain picks a worry, and it can become your focus for the entire trip. Unless the issue is not particularly serious to you, and you know a few tricks to calm yourself, this can be what leads to panic attacks that people who take LSD experience.

Well, this issue was a really big deal to me. I couldn't let it go in my head. I had always been like this- you had to have a girlfriend, and there was nothing worse than being alone. Dorks were alone. If you were dropped, it was because you were a dork. And I can't say it enough: I was terrified of being alone, because maybe I'd never find another girl again.

I kept envisioning scenarioes where I could make the relationship work. But every time a scenario came up, my mind knocked it down- there was always some reason why the relationship wouldn't work. I was terrified, I thought that when she finally left me, I'd be in despair, alone, embarassed, all sorts of things.

But finally, I looked at myself in the mirror, and suddenly it was all clear to me: Whatever other people think of me, I am more than the sum of other people's opinions. I had girlfriends before, and while I might be alone for a time, I would get one again, hopefully one who I can relate to more, and who can relate to me more. There was no reason to despair because I was like most people, essentially good with my share of faults.

I almost literally felt a weight lifting off my chest. I could breath again. I cried. I watched Dellamorte Dellamore and laughed my butt off.

A week later, she gave me the 'let's be friends' routine. I said, yeah, let's, good, I didn't think it was working anyway. Of course, I haven't seen her since, but that's only because she really isn't my type. Last I heard, she was going out with a Muslim fundamentalist who wouldn't let her drink.

Since then, I have had a few relationships, all but the one I am in now have ended (obviously), and I didn't care each time. I realised that when it's time to move on, it's time to move on. While I feel I am in the 'happily ever after' phase of the relationship I'm in, if for some reason in the future I need to leave this relationship, I can move on and not feel the terror and despair that I felt when the first few relationships.

This is one permanent, postive effect drug taking has had on me.

[Cleopatra]

I have never tried LSD but I have tried cocaine. I am so hyperkinetic that cocaine can do nothing for me.

I have a question though since both of you ( Tony and Mr.Manifesto) implied that LSD doesn't offers you temporary stimulation and can change your reality on a long term.

How many underpaid or unemployed, or pariahs of the society changed their reality for good by becoming drug users?

The only drug paradise I have been to is the Israeli Army and this should make you think...

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
I have never tried LSD but I have tried cocaine. I am so hyperkinetic that cocaine can do nothing for me.

I have a question though since both of you ( Tony and Mr.Manifesto) implied that LSD doesn't offers you temporary stimulation and can change your reality on a long term.

How many underpaid or unemployed, or pariahs of the society changed their reality for good by becoming drug users?

The only drug paradise I have been to is the Israeli Army and this should make you think...

Once again, you're saying that because some A's are B's, all B's are A's. Classic undefined middle.

It doesn't surprise me that there are those who would seek escape by taking drugs constantly. It doesn't follow from that, though, that drugs are completely harmful.

[Cleopatra]

Mr.Manifesto

One could offer you the same help for your relationship problem just by reading you the tarot cards or telling you your horoscope you know....

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Cleopatra
Mr.Manifesto

One could offer you the same help for your relationship problem just by reading you the tarot cards or telling you your horoscope you know....

Except I don't believe in tarot cards or horoscopes.

[Q-Source]

Who has taken MDMA or E-pill?

I had never taken drugs before, about 2 months ago I took Ecstasy with my boyfriend and the only thing I can say is that it is one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. It is wonderful, the release of serotonine in the brain makes you feel so happy and full of love for the whole humanity. It is great to take with someone you love because it feels like being the same person.

I want to try LSD, but I am a little bit scared about it.

Q-S

[Tony]

Originally posted by Q-Source
Who has taken MDMA or E-pill?


I have, only in Texas, we call it "X".

I had never taken drugs before, about 2 months ago I took Ecstasy with my boyfriend and the only thing I can say is that it is one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. It is wonderful, the release of serotonine in the brain makes you feel so happy and full of love for the whole humanity. It is great to take with someone you love because it feels like being the same person.

Yeah, that's about right. :)

Beware, "X" has a lot of bad qualities as well. IMO the bad outwieghts the good.

I want to try LSD, but I am a little bit scared about it.

You want a real mind trip? Take X and acid TOGETHER. Throw a little cocaine and marjuana into the mix, and you got yourself a kick-a$$ party. :)

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Except I don't believe in tarot cards or horoscopes.


Really? They tarot cards and horoscopes are equally hallucinogenic and completely safe for your health.

The greatest myth that exists on earth is that drugs improve your sex life.They can offer some good moments yes but this doesn't constitute an improvement as a whole.

Interestingly I was introduced to this theory when I was living in UK , so many years in Middle East, I have dated Arabs that suppose to smoke hashish and none ever think to propose that we use drugs to get high. In Middle East smoking hashish is a social habit-- that's why you don't see the sort of addiction you see in western societies. I had to go to the civilized Cambridge to try drugs.

Mr. Manifesto, I cannot resist to mention that the title of this thread is just inadmissible.

[clusterm2]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
Man, I just don't get druggies.
In my real life, I won't talk to anyone you does drugs. Even if it's "just pot" "only every once in a while", I don't want to have a thing to do with you.
I think using is sign of immaturity. If you can't figure out how to have a good time without being wacked out of your mind, you're no fun to me.
I'll talk to people who use on the board. And you can't avoid people you know through work or old school friends. But, all of my close friends are completley sober. I'll never date anyone who isn't sober, either.
I've never done drugs, I don't drink, or smoke, or drink caffiene. I just don't get the need to be high.



Hey, nights out with you must be a real buzzzzz:rolleyes:

[Cleopatra]

Yes indeed! Nothing compares to a date with a drunkard who embarasses you in public with his behavior...:rolleyes:

[JAR]

Originally posted by Aoidoi
(not entirely true, I do drink alcohol every once in a while. My chief vice is coke/pepsi/brown fizzy stuff, though.)

I like soft drinks too. In my opinion, soft drinks are mankind's greatest invention in the category of cold drinks and ice cream is mankind's greatest invention involving cold food. I think the guy who invented ice cream was black. [Edited to add: I just checked it out on the internet and found out that it's a myth that the inventor of ice cream was black. The guy I was thinking of is Augustus Jackson and he came up with ice cream recipes but ice cream was invented hundreds of years before he was born.]

[Sundog]

Originally posted by MoeFaux


Fine, you can have your opinion, and I can have mine.
If you do drugs, you'll never get close to me.

Jesus Christ, what an ego. Why on Earth should we want to get close to you? I have no need for more opinionated loudmouths in my life.

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by Cain
Businesses -- like the tobacco industry, for example -- have an incentive against people hurting themselves. Why would they sell a deadly product? It makes about as little sense as somone polluting their own land.

Forgive me if I'm not recognizing sarcasm or irony, here, Cain. You could be pulling my leg. But for those who would agree with that statement: it's really not relevant to the tobacco companies whether their customers are healthy or not. The nature of tobacco use is that it takes years for most users to develop serious health problems as a consequence of smoking or dipping. The key is to get 'em young and healthy, make 'em smoke smoke smoke smoke smoke until they die, then get their children addicted to nicotine.

Which is all fine with me. I smoke. I know they don't care about me. I don't care about them.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Cleopatra



Really? They tarot cards and horoscopes are equally hallucinogenic and completely safe for your health.
Hallucinations are only one aspect of LSD and psylocybin. You would know this if you had taken the drug. If you have taken the drug, and are deliberately omitting the fact that there is more to these drugs than hallucinations, you are being disingenous.

The 'hallucinations' (to use the broadest possible definition of the word, which is the definition I assume you are using) brought on by tarot readings can be dispelled with a little simple skepticism. Tarot readings do not directly effect the serotonin system by their very nature: they are dependant on the credulity of the subject for their affect. If you are not credulous, they are ineffectual.

The greatest myth that exists on earth is that drugs improve your sex life.They can offer some good moments yes but this doesn't constitute an improvement as a whole.

Interestingly I was introduced to this theory when I was living in UK , so many years in Middle East, I have dated Arabs that suppose to smoke hashish and none ever think to propose that we use drugs to get high. In Middle East smoking hashish is a social habit-- that's why you don't see the sort of addiction you see in western societies. I had to go to the civilized Cambridge to try drugs.
This is either a strawman, or it's irrelevant to the topic

Mr. Manifesto, I cannot resist to mention that the title of this thread is just inadmissible.
I don't know what you mean by this. Rather than second-guess what you intended by this comment, I invite you to expand upon it.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by MoeFaux
Man, I just don't get druggies.
I've never done drugs, I don't drink, or smoke, or drink caffiene. I just don't get the need to be high.

Don't knock it until you've tried it!

But really, if you don't do drugs, more power to you. Drugs aren't for everyone.

But as I tell people who've never tried drugs (particularly ecstasy, which I enjoyed immensely), imagine the best you've ever felt in your life and mulitiply it by 10. That's what it was like for me. I'm not saying this as someone who's had a miserable life and used drugs to escape. On the contrary. I've always been quite happy and fulfilled. Drugs were a tool to enhance pleasure, not a means to escape reality.
I pity anyone who has gone through life and never felt the pure, overwhelming bliss that comes from using certain drugs. (not all drugs mind you.)
As I said in an earlier post, I don't do much anymore, but I'm glad I had the experiences I did and I wouldn't take them back for anything.

But if it ain't your scene, cool.

[KelvinG]

Originally posted by Cain


Negative. See above post on rational self-interest.



Negative. See above sentence referring to above post. [/sarcasm]



I never said or suggested that everyone who takes drugs is a libertarian.



Me too. [/seriousness]

[Exec Sarc]



Statist.



Negative.

Fair enough. I read your original post and must have misinterpreted your intent. It happens sometimes.
I believe we are on the same page on this one.
Cheers.

[Charlie Monoxide]

::ahem:: John Lydon was Johnny Rotten. Sid Vicious was Simon Beverly. Probably. You are right Mr. Manifesto. Being an "anti-christer", I knew I would screw that up.

Charlie (god save the queen ... win valuable prizes) Monoxide

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Tony


I have, only in Texas, we call it "X".

I had never taken drugs before, about 2 months ago I took Ecstasy with my boyfriend and the only thing I can say is that it is one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. It is wonderful, the release of serotonine in the brain makes you feel so happy and full of love for the whole humanity. It is great to take with someone you love because it feels like being the same person.

Yeah, that's about right. :)

Beware, "X" has a lot of bad qualities as well. IMO the bad outwieghts the good.

I want to try LSD, but I am a little bit scared about it.

You want a real mind trip? Take X and acid TOGETHER. Throw a little cocaine and marjuana into the mix, and you got yourself a kick-a$$ party. :)

Ill back up Tony here and say that the bad faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarr outweighs the good when it comes to ecstacy. That stuff plain aint good for you and some of the people I know who have been using it for a long time have become a bit, well, stoopid.

LSD is much better. It doesnt smoosh your brain into a state of lovey-dovey, you have to work to find happiness on LSD. Its much more rewarding.

[Unalienable]

It's so easy to get hooked on junk you wouldn't believe.

It works like this. A friend of yours who is a junky offers you a free hit. They do this, because they love to have "scoring buddies" to help them manage their habits. Being young and stupid and full of bravado you say "sure why not?", let him tap your vein, and suddenly feel the most incredible feeling of your life. It's like falling in love, you think about it all day long, you know you have to do it again. Soon you buy a bundle (10 bags) and learn how to hit yourself up. Whatever aversion you had to the needle is a distant memory and joy fills your heart when you see that dark blue blood fill the chamber.

Before long you need it to get up the morning, you do it after work, you do it in the bathroom during work, all the while kidding yourself that you can stop any time. Then one day your stash runs out and to your great surprise you start to feel cramps, sweats, chills, and a horrible feeling of depression. This discomfort becomes increasingly worse with each passing hour until you literally feel that death is imminent. Desperately, you score a bag of dope, and when you inject it you feel pure relief fill your body, first down your spine, then limb by limb.

Congratulations, you've just copped a major-league habit.

But there's good news. Previously your only clinical option was to take methadone, which is hardly a cure, just an exchange of habits. But in the last 10 years great advances have been made towards helping opiate addicts, including suboxone (buprenephrine) which can make the withdrawal process very comfortable.

In summary, have some sympathy on junkies. They made one mistake, and now they pay for it for the rest of their lives. I don't care how smart you are, there was a time when you were young and foolish--weren't we all? So when you look at the most wasted hopeless dope fiend, just remember, it could have been you.

[Gurdur]

Heroin getting a lot of press today, yes?

[Undesired Walrus]

Why the hell is this in 'Politics'?

Also, Ecstasy leads to Heroin. A lot of the time.

[WildCat]

Why the hell is this in 'Politics'?
It's a thread from 2003.

Also, Ecstasy leads to Heroin. A lot of the time.
Correlation is not causation.

[Madalch]

I have never understood how people can smoke pot. I'm a chemist, and I can think of few things that smell worse. I'll take pyridine over that crap any day.

[Unalienable]

Ecstasy leads to Heroin.That's odd, I found it quite the other way around.

Oh wait you're talking about MDMA nevermind ... ,'-)