Split thread: Calls For the Privatization of Polar Bears

[Alex Libman]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.

[not_so_new]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.

LOL

I assume you are joking but in case you are not.

1) The value of the things in this universe should not be directly tied to their usefulness to humanity. That is an incredibly self centered viewpoint that will come back to haunt any who practice it.

2) Turning a blind eye to the plight of polar bears is to turn a blind eye to a predictor of environmental problems as a whole.

3) We live in a closed system. Polar bears are part of that system. When we make changes to large closed systems we often get unexpected outcomes.

The loss of polar bears may just end up having a VERY big impact to US that we are not yet aware of. Their "usefulness to humanity" may not be measured until they are long gone.

Again, the idea that we should measure the importance of any part of our ecosystem in proportion to its usefulness to humanity is shortsighted, egotistical and potentially dangerous.

But I assume you are joking so I don't think this applies to you.

;)

[Pardalis]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.

Is there a punch line?

[Undesired Walrus]

Is there a punch line?

Ron Paul.

[Alex Libman]

I'm not here to entertain, nor is it my job to tutor people here in basic economics. I've made my point for this thread, and now I'm moving on.

[Nogbad]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.

People should be private property too? (they are part of everything the last time I looked)

[Myshkin]

I'm not here to entertain, nor is it my job to tutor people here in basic economics. I've made my point for this thread, and now I'm moving on.

Basic economics includes consideration of Spillover Costs and Market Failure. Maybe you could consider that the free market is not the most efficient means of exploiting* Polar Bears' value to humanity.

Maybe armed forces ought to be privatized as well.

* - I mean this in the pure economic sense, not the loaded social sense

[Nogbad]

Government should be privatised too - control put out to the highest corporate bidder....oh wait! :(

[The Painter]

Maybe armed forces ought to be privatized as well.

Never heard of mercenaries? Blackwater? (http://www.blackwaterusa.com/)

[dudalb]

I'm not here to entertain, nor is it my job to tutor people here in basic economics. I've made my point for this thread, and now I'm moving on.

Boy, you need some training in the art of making a convincing case.

[dudalb]

Never heard of mercenaries? Blackwater? (http://www.blackwaterusa.com/)

Yeah, and we saw how well that turned out.
And Mercenaries have a nasty habit of grabbing power for themselves.

[Myshkin]

Never heard of mercenaries? Blackwater? (http://www.blackwaterusa.com/)

Yeah. Is it a good idea? Just seems to me that, given our constitution, some functions are inherently "governmental" and are best left out of the marketplace.

[not_so_new]

I'm not here to entertain, nor is it my job to tutor people here in basic economics. I've made my point for this thread, and now I'm moving on.

Or let me rephrase for you... "I posted a stupid comment, got my a$$ handed to me and now I am going to stay away because I can't validate my own ludicrous proposition

In the hopes of saving any credibility I am going to pretend that no one else understands basic economics so I can cover my tracks and blame it all on their lack of understanding."

Got ya.... let us know how that works out for you, I am sure no one will see through your ploy.

[Nogbad]

Or let me rephrase for you... "I posted a stupid comment, got my a$$ handed to me and now I am going to stay away because I can't validate my own ludicrous proposition

In the hopes of saving any credibility I am going to pretend that no one else understands basic economics so I can cover my tracks and blame it all on their lack of understanding."

Got ya.... let us know how that works out for you, I am sure no one will see through your ploy.

I know I didn't :)

[not_so_new]

I know I didn't :)

;)

[Dr Adequate]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. I think the problem here is that most people would see a 1500 lb man-eating carnivore as a liability rather than an asset.

[joobz]

I think the problem here is that most people would see a 1500 lb man-eating carnivore as a liability rather than an asset.
Well, that depends. Does the carnivore in question have a laser beam attached to its head?

[Dr Adequate]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity. I think we should pilot the concept on a smaller scale.

Would you like to buy an ant?

[fuelair]

i think we should pilot the concept on a smaller scale.

Would you like to buy an ant?

o:)
them!!!!!them!!!!! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggghhhhh......................... ....

[Dr Adequate]

In legal terms, what's the difference between a polar bear and a camel or a hamster? (Reminder: I said in legal terms.)

In legal terms?

Property Rights In Wild Animals (http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/study/outlines/html/prop/prop03.htm).

You become their owners when you catch them, and cede ownership when and if you release them.

To assert that some person was the legal owner of a wild animal at times when it is not under his control would be a legal fiction which would be more trouble than it's worth.

For example, what happens when your polar bears start eating my seals? The entire ecology would come to be paralleled by an equally complex legal network of claims and counter-claims.

I think this discussion doesn't need to remain private. If you agree, please quote and reply in the original public thread. Okay, though I think maybe we should ask the moderators to split the thread and move this to the Daft Libertarian Ideas Forum.

Well the land those animals are on has to belong to somebody as well. So either my polar bear is on your property or you seals are on mine. Or, of course, on the land of some third party. That's the trouble with owning migratory wild animals.

If our properties are adjacent, then this is an issue we'd be well-advised to consider ahead of time to avoid nasty disputes and arbitration. Good fences (or force fields) make good neighbors (or arctic property investors). Spring is the mischief in me, and I wonder
If I could put a notion in his head:
Why do they make good neighbors? Isn't it
Where there are bears? But here there are no bears.
Something there is that does not love a force-field.

[Meadmaker]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.:)

[Puppycow]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.

Here's a crazy thought: Human beings long ago decided which species could be profitably domesticated and which could not. If there was a dime to be made in domesticating polar bears someone would have done it already. (There is actually, for a zoo. That seems to be the only conceivable economic use for them.) So, this has already happened long ago.

[brodski]

split from here http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=122213

[Mobyseven]

This is why you should never smoke dope and post, kids.

Stay in school.

[Beerina]

LOL

I assume you are joking but in case you are not.

1) The value of the things in this universe should not be directly tied to their usefulness to humanity. That is an incredibly self centered viewpoint that will come back to haunt any who practice it.


Intrusive, well-meaning government has been demonstrated to cause harm to humanity.


So save a few bears. Why? Before some reading this die, we will understand genetics and chemistry so well we will be able to use computers to generate what an organism will look like just from the genes. We will custom-tailor genes and grow our own. Or resurrect polar bears, dodos, mammoths, saber-toothed tigers, neanderthals, possibly even dinosaurs someday.




So complaining about "extincting" a species, with the attendant government imposition of laws, is the truly short-sighted approach.

[Gurdur]

Everything should be privatized, and all polar bears should be private property. There's no risk of cows going extinct! Their population would be controlled by the free market (including non-profit safaris) in proportion to their usefulness to humanity.


Occasionally reading JREF is like visiting Bedlam.

I'm not here to entertain,


Oh yes, you are! :)

Intrusive, well-meaning government has been demonstrated to cause harm to humanity.


So save a few bears. Why? Before some reading this die, we will understand genetics and chemistry so well we will be able to use computers to generate what an organism will look like just from the genes. We will custom-tailor genes and grow our own. Or resurrect polar bears, dodos, mammoths, saber-toothed tigers, neanderthals, possibly even dinosaurs someday.


Thankfully most people (by the huge majority) think differently than you do, and will always do so. Otherwise no doubt we would all end up in some nasty horrible little concrete-cubicle Rand-Approved world, congratulating ourselves that while our world was completely ********** up and dreary, at least we were very Politically Correct as per Ayn.

Ugh.

Oh well. As said, most think differently, thank heavens.



So complaining about "extincting" a species, with the attendant government imposition of laws, is the truly short-sighted approach.


Because cabbages are sealing-wax, therefore kings think blue.

Yes, well. Tiddley om pom pom, see you round the threads.