Palin Derangement Syndrome?

[PixyMisa]

Could someone please explain this to me?

No sooner is Governor Palin nominated than we have a snowstorm of smear threads, from the dubious (Troopergate) to the delusional (MySpace photos of Palin's daughter's boyfriend's sister?) to the depraved (the whole fake pregnancy debacle).

Why?

Seriously. I don't get it.

Take the Creationism thing. That's certainly an area where we as skeptics should voice our concerns. Governor Palin said something stupid about the teaching of evolution - essentially the idiotic Republican party line about "teach them both". But she backtracked from that when confronted. Compared to what's been going on in Texas, there's just nothing there.

The other threads have even less to them, when you pause to examine the facts. And at least one is downright troofer-level insane.

So... Why?

[chipmunk stew]

Could someone please explain this to me?

No sooner is Governor Palin nominated than we have a snowstorm of smear threads, from the dubious (Troopergate) to the delusional (MySpace photos of Palin's daughter's boyfriend's sister?) to the depraved (the whole fake pregnancy debacle).

Why?

Seriously. I don't get it.

Take the Creationism thing. That's certainly an area where we as skeptics should voice our concerns. Governor Palin said something stupid about the teaching of evolution - essentially the idiotic Republican party line about "teach them both". But she backtracked from that when confronted. Compared to what's been going on in Texas, there's just nothing there.

The other threads have even less to them, when you pause to examine the facts. And at least one is downright troofer-level insane.

So... Why?
Because she's an unknown, whom no one seriously thought McCain would pick.

Because she hasn't been vetted by the national media, and everyone is trying to get the good dirt first.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding this?

[Dr Adequate]

Could someone please explain this to me?

No sooner is Governor Palin nominated than we have a snowstorm of smear threads, from the dubious (Troopergate) to the delusional (MySpace photos of Palin's daughter's boyfriend's sister?) to the depraved (the whole fake pregnancy debacle).

Why?

Seriously. I don't get it. Because sorting fact from fiction is not an instantaneous process, and because no-one gave a damn about her before McCain picked her as his VP candidate ... it's not like anyone saw that coming is it?

Until she suddenly became a national figure at the whim of the Maverick, who cared what she'd been up to? Apart from people in the Upper One, of course.

[Pookster]

What's happening is exactly what I expected. It'll get worse before it gets better. The media smells blood in what was supposed to be a squeaky clean pick by a man who considers himself "ready to lead".

It's really a shame too. She will be picked apart by a starving media, and so will her family. Look at what the media is focusing on today ... the second day of the Republican National Convention: her teen daughter's pregnancy, among other silly things. This was a crazy pick for VP, and McCain's campaign should've seen this coming.

[Sefarst]

What's happening is exactly what I expected. It'll get worse before it gets better. The media smells blood in what was supposed to be a squeaky clean pick by a man who considers himself "ready to lead".

It's really a shame too. She will be picked apart by a starving media, and so will her family. Look at what the media is focusing on today ... the second day of the Republican National Convention: her teen daughter's pregnancy, among other silly things. This was a crazy pick for VP, and McCain's campaign should've seen this coming.
It's really not that bad. You have to remember that this is the same media that pulled "terrorist fist jab," "Whitey Video," and "Obama is a Muslim" out of thin air. I'm confident the Palins knew what they were getting into.

The right wing is going to like John McCain more for his choice of running mate. He just pulled in record cash for his campaign last month and Sarah Palin has become the darling of the conservatives. Sure, focusing on the daughter of a candidate is low, but what do you expect from the people who brought us week-long 24/7 coverage of Paris Hilton going to jail, Anna Nicole Smith's baby's father, and Brittany Spears shaves her head?

The biggest concern is that this young woman will have a nervous breakdown, but politically, McCain is sitting pretty.

[Pookster]

It's really not that bad. You have to remember that this is the same media that pulled "terrorist fist jab," "Whitey Video," and "Obama is a Muslim" out of thin air. I'm confident the Palins knew what they were getting into.


Given that it's the second day of the Republican National Convention and this is one of the major headlines (outside of Gustav) being discussed by the media, it's really that bad.

[geni]

Given that it's the second day of the Republican National Convention and this is one of the major headlines (outside of Gustav) being discussed by the media, it's really that bad.

The toned down convention. The problem is likely more related to Gustav than palin.

[gtc]

What were the headlines during the DNC? I seem to remember it was about whether Bill would show up and Hillary having to condemn Republican attack ads on Obama that just repeated what she said verbatim. I am not sure that either side would be pleased with the coverage.

[Pookster]

The toned down convention. The problem is likely more related to Gustav than palin.


Gustav is having a major impact. It certainly has thrown the Republicans off stride.

[quarky]

Gustav is having a major impact. It certainly has thrown the Republicans off stride.

not necessarily. The current administration comes out looking good in New Orleans because of disaster avoided. They got lucky, to some extent.

[Puppycow]

Could someone please explain this to me?

No sooner is Governor Palin nominated than we have a snowstorm of smear threads, from the dubious (Troopergate) to the delusional (MySpace photos of Palin's daughter's boyfriend's sister?) to the depraved (the whole fake pregnancy debacle).

Why?

Seriously. I don't get it.

Take the Creationism thing. That's certainly an area where we as skeptics should voice our concerns. Governor Palin said something stupid about the teaching of evolution - essentially the idiotic Republican party line about "teach them both". But she backtracked from that when confronted. Compared to what's been going on in Texas, there's just nothing there.

The other threads have even less to them, when you pause to examine the facts. And at least one is downright troofer-level insane.

So... Why?

This is politics, not beanbag. Did you miss the threads on subjects like Michelle Obama's non-existant "whitey video"?

Anyway, what is dubious about Troopergate? There is an actual ethics investigation underway. She is hiring lawyers. I'll let the starters of other threads defend them.

In related news, The New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/seven/09012008/news/nationalnews/palin_admits_her_17_year_old_daughter_is_127025.ht m) profiles the proud new father of Sarah Palin's grandchild-to-be.

On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.

"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."

"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] ass," he added.

He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."

Well you got a kid now, boyo. I'm sure he'll be a wonderful father. :D

[FaisonMars]

The "babygate" story is almost certainly false, and there were some nasty, unnecessary things posted on some blogs, but it's disingenuous for the right to spin this as purely scurrilous rumor-mongering (like the "whitey" video). There WAS some funny business about the birth of Trig that still hasn't been answered.

From a piece in Salon.com yesterday: http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/09/01/palin_baby/


Of course, there are indeed some very real, very serious issues raised by the revelation of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, which Palin and the McCain camp made public today in response to rampant Internet rumors that Palin had faked her pregnancy with infant Trig to cover up an earlier Bristol gestation period. (Study questions: Why, in refuting those original rumors, did Palin present as evidence the news that her daughter was pregnant, rather than simply handing over hospital documents and a birth certificate for Trig? Answer: It's a mystery! Why did she get on a long plane ride to Alaska after her water broke a month early in Texas? Answer: It's a mystery! Why was her staff surprised to learn that the governor was pregnant one month before she gave birth? Answer: It's a mystery!)

[FaisonMars]

Well you got a kid now, boyo. I'm sure he'll be a wonderful father. :D

:jaw-dropp

Run away, Bristol! You don't have to do it! Go to college!

[Matthew Best]

Should we expect Bristol be any different from her mom, who also seems to have gotten pregnant before getting married, if my reading of the dates on her Wikipedia page is correct?

[Brainster]

I think it's just flop sweat from the Obama people. Moses was supposed to have parted the waters by now, giving the Democrats a huge lead in fundraising (remember when he was going to be the $100 million a month man?), and in the polls. Instead he's only up a few points, with the Republican Convention about to start. It's looking like Dukakis all over again.

BenBurch is clearly plugged into the liberal network. So when he starts acting a little like X-Box Warrior on speed, it's a good sign that others are worried as well. Remember, the liberals thought Kerry was going to mop the floor with Bush and that Gore had won Florida and the election. This is a party that is used to seeing huge leads for the Democrats evaporate in September and October, and tight races turn into routs by the Republicans.

The good news is that they're overreaching. The experience argument about Palin is not a winner for them, and I'm astounded they can't see that. The attacks on Palin's family will almost certainly backfire with independents, as pleasing as they are to the base.

[Brainster]

The "babygate" story is almost certainly false, and there were some nasty, unnecessary things posted on some blogs, but it's disingenuous for the right to spin this as purely scurrilous rumor-mongering (like the "whitey" video). There WAS some funny business about the birth of Trig that still hasn't been answered.

I'll tell you why they haven't released the records. Because they want this story to continue to discredit liberal bloggers, radio hosts and commentators. When your opponents are hanging themselves, the last thing you want to do is tell them they can't have any more rope. If I were the McCain team I'd let this build up again. Wait until it's a crescendo. And then pull out the records.

When this was a scurrilous rumor being posted here only, I was pretty harsh on those pushing it. Now that it's out in the liberal blogosphere, I'm happy to let it continue. Here's some more rope!

[corplinx]

I've had a good laff checking this forum. Before Palin, we had the Obama derangement people (we know who they are, all ..... what.... three of them?). Now theres this geyser of Palin stuff.

You guys should realize, you are the counterparts to those deranged Obama controversy stalkers that you think are moonbats.

[boloboffin]

-W5IAPK0hbU

[Shalamar]

It looks like that the Palin VP nod may have been a rather good move for McCain and the Republicans. Acording to some news sources, McCain knew that Bristol was pregnant before he asked Palin to be VP. I figure the following:

Palin is young, and a woman. This may be an attempt to lure some of the dissaffected Hillary supports from the Democrats.

Palin has a young baby, who is also special needs. This will easily resonate with hard working mothers who attempt to balance a Career and parenting.

Palin is a staunch supporter of core conservative values. Obvious reasoning.

Palin's Daughter, Bristol, is going to be a teenaged mother. This may have a few effects. The republicans may put it forward that sex-ed doesn't work ("SEE! She got PREGNANT!") and use it to push abstinence only education. She is keeping the baby. Obviously pro-life. She is going to marry the father. This will go over well with the Christian 'Family Values' crowd.

The downsides are Palins rather weak experience, and the fact that she doesn't seem to know what she's doing. Yet.

Its a rather calculated ploy, and if the liberal bloggers don't shut up about 'babygate', this *might* hurt the democrats chances. Obama has already asked that the attacks on Palin and her family stop, and this is a good move. But then, The attacks on Obama will continue to occur (He's a Scary muslin terrorist black man!)

[yodaluver28]

While I agree that politician's families should be mostly off-limits unless there they've committed or are suspected of crimes or there are serious conflict of interest issues involved, Palin's daughter's pregnancy is an issue. Palin is an advocate of abstinence-only education, a curriculum that has proven woefully ineffective at preventing sexual activity, pregnancy, and STDs among teenagers. The fact that she has a teenager daughter who got pregnant while still in high school is a symptom of this fact. The point in bringing this up though should not be to embarrass or scandalize anyone but to find out if she has changed her mind and become more pragmatic on the issue or is she sticking to an ideology that might make her feel better but simply hasn't worked, even in her own family.

[not_so_new]

I think this sums it up nicely.

http://www.businesssheet.com/2008/9/mccain-s-palin-pick-scandal-a-sign-of-incompetence-

That said, even the GOP members on this thread have to admit that there is a lot of stuff flying around on Palin. If there was this much stuff floating around Biden we would have just as many threads about him after his pick.

McCain made a bad choice, he didn't have a ton of options but he had months to sort out his running mate and it looks like he picked Palin on a whim or a hunch. This is what you get from that sort of gamble.

[Sefarst]

Given that it's the second day of the Republican National Convention and this is one of the major headlines (outside of Gustav) being discussed by the media, it's really that bad.
Do I need to remind you what the headlines normally are? Usually somewhere between "Cat rescued from tree!" and "Tom Cruise jumps on Oprah's couch!"

So it's the second of the convention and the fifth day of her being the nominee and they're putting the big stuff out there.

[Alferd_Packer]

Because she's an unknown, whom no one seriously thought McCain would pick.

Because she hasn't been vetted by the national media, and everyone is trying to get the good dirt first.

Why are you having such a hard time understanding this?

Apparently she wasn't vetted by the RNC beforehand either.

Ooops.

[Sefarst]

The fact that she has a teenager daughter who got pregnant while still in high school is a symptom of this fact.
No it's not. If I found one girl who got pregnant after being taught about contraceptives, would that be a symptom that contraceptive education didn't work to you?

[Meadmaker]

While I agree that politician's families should be mostly off-limits unless there they've committed or are suspected of crimes or there are serious conflict of interest issues involved, Palin's daughter's pregnancy is an issue. Palin is an advocate of abstinence-only education, a curriculum that has proven woefully ineffective at preventing sexual activity, pregnancy, and STDs among teenagers. The fact that she has a teenager daughter who got pregnant while still in high school is a symptom of this fact. The point in bringing this up though should not be to embarrass or scandalize anyone but to find out if she has changed her mind and become more pragmatic on the issue or is she sticking to an ideology that might make her feel better but simply hasn't worked, even in her own family.


You might want to check and see if the school district Palin's children attended had an "abstinence only" curriculum. From what I've read, they didn't, but I confess I have not read that from a reliable source. i.e. I read it on this forum.

Even if they did, bringing a specific teenager into the spotlight as a way of making political points about the issue would be reprehensible. One can only argue about this sensibly using statistics, and there's no need to use any names at all.

[corplinx]

I think this sums it up nicely.

http://www.businesssheet.com/2008/9/mccain-s-palin-pick-scandal-a-sign-of-incompetence-

That said, even the GOP members on this thread have to admit that there is a lot of stuff flying around on Palin. If there was this much stuff floating around Biden we would have just as many threads about him after his pick.

McCain made a bad choice, he didn't have a ton of options but he had months to sort out his running mate and it looks like he picked Palin on a whim or a hunch. This is what you get from that sort of gamble.

Yeah, so if its possible to make up a bunch of smears about someone, then you can try to make people infer that the person who selected them has poor judgment. What the next step in this playbook?

[Pookster]

Do I need to remind you what the headlines normally are? Usually somewhere between "Cat rescued from tree!" and "Tom Cruise jumps on Oprah's couch!"

So it's the second of the convention and the fifth day of her being the nominee and they're putting the big stuff out there.


I recall the second day of the Democratic Convention and the fifth day of Biden being the nominee. As looming as Hillary & Bill's speeches were, it was a rather more pleasant day for the Democrats than today is for the Republicans ... from a media standpoint regarding the VP choice. The Republicans are having to spend so much time defending the choice instead of hammering away on Obama. That wasn't the case with the choice of Biden.

[Sefarst]

I think this sums it up nicely.

http://www.businesssheet.com/2008/9/mccain-s-palin-pick-scandal-a-sign-of-incompetence-

That said, even the GOP members on this thread have to admit that there is a lot of stuff flying around on Palin. If there was this much stuff floating around Biden we would have just as many threads about him after his pick.

McCain made a bad choice, he didn't have a ton of options but he had months to sort out his running mate and it looks like he picked Palin on a whim or a hunch. This is what you get from that sort of gamble.

Yes, there's a lot of stuff "flying around on Palin." Does it matter that, so far, they are mostly the deranged fantasies of people like BenBurch? The "Troopergate" story isn't going to get you anywhere and won't be difficult for the PR people to spin in her favor unless there's some huge bombshell beneath the surface no one knows about yet. So far, you've got criticism for a flip flop on the bridge to nowhere and you've got inexperience. The daughter and pregnancy stories are losers for you. The hacker story is a loser and fabrication. The secession party story is a loser.

It seems the Left's strategy right now is just to create an atmosphere of negativity around her. Even if the majority of their attacks fail and are fabrications, they just want voters to remember that, "hey, there sure were a lot of attacks on that woman when she was announced, there's got to be something wrong with her."

[Pookster]

No it's not.


Agreed, it's not really a symptom. What it does is put a spotlight on abstinence only sex education.

[boloboffin]

More Palin Derangement Syndrome -- from a resident of Wasilla (http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate#comment-1994895):

She’s not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas
or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren’t generated by
her or her staff. Ideas weren’t evaluated on their merits, but on the
basis of who proposed them.

While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected
City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from
the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents
rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's
attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew
her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the
Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.

Sarah complained about the “old boy’s club” when she first ran for
Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin
fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as
Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people,
creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally
grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power
to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the
case of pressuring the State’s top cop (see below).

As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla’s Police Chief because he “intimidated”
her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top
cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure
and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that
an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't
fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation
for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen
contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she
later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to
replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded
for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew
her support.

More, much more at the link.

[Brainster]

Agreed, it's not really a symptom. What it does is put a spotlight on abstinence only sex education.

I have yet to see anybody establish that Bristol was given abstinence-only sex education. If she was given comprehensive sex education, does that mean that comprehensive doesn't work?

[not_so_new]

Yeah, so if its possible to make up a bunch of smears about someone, then you can try to make people infer that the person who selected them has poor judgment. What the next step in this playbook?

:faint: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry, put me to sleep there for a minute. What was that? The GOP is completely above smears.... got ya.

I think some of the stuff going on around Palin is wrong and have said so on this forum. But questions of Palin's political and personal decisions go to her ability to lead the nation if something were to happen to McCain were he to be elected.

- Bridge to nowhere flip flopping
- Troopergate investigation
- Alaskan Independence Party motto "Alaska First -- Alaska Always" (counter to McCain's "America First" motto)
- Her stance on AGW
- Her stance on teaching evolution
- Her stance on abstinence only while having a 17 year old pregnant daughter
- Palin doesn't know what the VP job is actually about
- Palin didn't have an opinion on Iraq as of July 07
- Questions of impropriety on a land deal

The fact that McCain chose her to be his running mate goes to his credibility as a leader.

[corplinx]

The GOP is completely above smears.... got ya.

You seem to be falsely assuming that because I say this effort is wrong, that I approve of other similar efforts directed at Palin's opponents.

You would be incorrect.

[quarky]

The important thing about Sara Palin is that she didn't abort her retarded baby, and a democrat would have. A liberal mom would have encouraged her daughter to abort as well, given the circumstances. She walks the anti-choice, pro-life walk.

[FaisonMars]

The important thing about Sara Palin is that she didn't abort her retarded baby, and a democrat would have. A liberal mom would have encouraged her daughter to abort as well, given the circumstances. She walks the anti-choice, pro-life walk.

Apparently her daughter doesn't even have a choice about whether or not to marry the guy who knocked her up. She HAS to get married for political purposes. That is very sad.

[chipmunk stew]

I've had a good laff checking this forum. Before Palin, we had the Obama derangement people (we know who they are, all ..... what.... three of them?). Now theres this geyser of Palin stuff.

You guys should realize, you are the counterparts to those deranged Obama controversy stalkers that you think are moonbats.
Hmmm... (http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=1629118)

[not_so_new]

Yes, there's a lot of stuff "flying around on Palin." Does it matter that, so far, they are mostly the deranged fantasies of people like BenBurch? The "Troopergate" story isn't going to get you anywhere and won't be difficult for the PR people to spin in her favor unless there's some huge bombshell beneath the surface no one knows about yet. So far, you've got criticism for a flip flop on the bridge to nowhere and you've got inexperience. The daughter and pregnancy stories are losers for you. The hacker story is a loser and fabrication. The secession party story is a loser.

It seems the Left's strategy right now is just to create an atmosphere of negativity around her. Even if the majority of their attacks fail and are fabrications, they just want voters to remember that, "hey, there sure were a lot of attacks on that woman when she was announced, there's got to be something wrong with her."

Again, the GOP is completely above smears for sure..... Obama is a Muslim. Obama is anti-American because of his flag pin or lack of. Obama is racist. Obama is a elitist. Obama and the "fist bump." Obama and the Weatherman. Obama and the wounded troops. Obama doesn't display a US flag on his plane. Obama's wife talked about "Whitey" in a taped interview. Obama doesn't have a birth certificate. Obama does not say the pledge.

Now look at the BS above about Obama, how much of it goes to his policies or his ability to lead? All of these things are just "meant to create an atmosphere of negativitay about him."

Contrast that to the list I posted above about Palin, discussions on her policies and her choices.

I am trying to stay above the smear and talk about the ability of Palin (and Obama, and Biden, and McCain) to lead the nation. I think that should be what we focus on but it seems that both sides want to smear.... and it also seems the GOP is more in-tune with the smear politics than the DNC.

[Brainster]

More Palin Derangement Syndrome -- from a resident of Wasilla (http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3671/the-reform-candidate#comment-1994895):

More, much more at the link.

You mean there are Democrats in Wassila? I'm shocked and disappointed to hear that.

Seriously, the reaction to Palin has broken along party lines, which is fairly predictable. But look at the poll posted the other day here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=122260).

Undecideds thought Palin was a good choice by a 6-3 margin. On Biden, the break was almost exactly the opposite; they thought Biden was a poor choice by 5-3. Small sample, so the error margin is huge, but it hardly indicates that Palin is this obviously terrible pick.

[Sefarst]

The important thing about Sara Palin is that she didn't abort her retarded baby, and a democrat would have. A liberal mom would have encouraged her daughter to abort as well, given the circumstances. She walks the anti-choice, pro-life walk.
You sound awful BenBurchian with this statement. You can do better than making blanket assertions about the other party.

[Pookster]

I have yet to see anybody establish that Bristol was given abstinence-only sex education.


I've yet to either. Nor was it my point. The spotlight is on abstinence only sex education now because of her daughter's pregnancy and Palin's position on sex education. Would it be if Palin wasn't for it, or her daughter wasn't preggers? That's why I said it's been put in the spotlight, and that Bristol's pregnancy is not necessarily a symptom of abstinence only education.

[boloboffin]

Another Wasillian weighs in (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837918,00.html):

Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." The librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire her for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

Leave To Kill A Mockingbird alooooooooonnnnnneee!!!

[corplinx]

Having books removed from library shelves because of language used in them is nothing new nor particularly religious. I remember when the hippies tried to get Huck Finn removed.

There is no evidence provided that her asking about removing books was religiously and not politically motivated.

Why is time.com printing this garbage?

[ksbluesfan]

This is comedy gold.

[chipmunk stew]

Having books removed from library shelves because of language used in them is nothing new nor particularly religious. I remember when the hippies tried to get Huck Finn removed.

There is no evidence provided that her asking about removing books was religiously and not politically motivated.

Why is time.com printing this garbage?
Who cares if it's "politically" motivated and not "religiously" motivated. The frickin' mayor of the town wanted to ban books from the public library. That's scandalous.

[Alferd_Packer]

Apparently her daughter doesn't even have a choice about whether or not to marry the guy who knocked her up. She HAS to get married for political purposes. That is very sad.

As an NRA member, I'm sure Palin has access to a shotgun.

[corplinx]

Who cares if it's "politically" motivated and not "religiously" motivated. The frickin' mayor of the town wanted to ban books from the public library. That's scandalous.

I don't agree with it. However, the time.com piece claims it was religiously motivated. It only touches the surface also. It said "removed". Does it mean taking the books with naught words off the shelves and putting them in the reserve section or does it mean removing them entirely? There is a big difference. I don't approve of taking books off the shelves period.

In any case, this article was more of the theocratic scaremongering I've gotten used to and provides quotes that look like evidence but don't provide any to back up its claims.

Its garbage.

[Bob Klase]

The important thing about Sara Palin is that she didn't abort her retarded baby, and a democrat would have.

You have some data on the number of women who had, or aborted, a retarded baby broken down by political party?

A liberal mom would have encouraged her daughter to abort as well, given the circumstances.

A liberal mom would want any daughter to have the choice. Most liberal moms would like it to be an informed choice, and many would not abort the baby.

But to many people who think that pro-choice means pro-abortion in all cases, it would make sense that they think any democrat would abort all babies because their agenda is to abort as many babies as possible.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I've yet to either. Nor was it my point. The spotlight is on abstinence only sex education now because of her daughter's pregnancy and Palin's position on sex education. Would it be if Palin wasn't for it, or her daughter wasn't preggers? That's why I said it's been put in the spotlight, and that Bristol's pregnancy is not necessarily a symptom of abstinence only education.

Exactly. Even if we find that Bristol had gone through abstinence-only ed, I wouldn't put much weight on the outcome of her (it's an anecdote). We know these programs don't work by the science. Her pregnancy brings THAT discussion and Palin's position on it (http://eagleforumalaska.blogspot.com/2006/07/2006-gubernatorial-candidate.html) to the forefront.

I think Bristol's pregnancy will probably be more an issue with the religious right. After all, they're the ones who already have trouble with a woman in high office (I actually heard a guy dissing Hillary by saying, "What would happen if she had PMS during a crisis?")

Palin's image is being sold based on some things that just aren't true--she's some sort of anti-pork reformer (except she's not); she's a super mom (but she's not); she's anti corruption (except she's not).

[corplinx]

You have some data on the number of women who had, or aborted, a retarded baby broken down by political party?



I doubt he does. I think the last figure I saw said 80+ percent of Down babies are aborted. Hardly a democrat or republican demographic.

[andyandy]

There is a very simple fact why there are so many stories circulating about Palin on the Internet, it's because less than a week ago most people had never heard of her. Therefore you have got every possible angle of her life being examined at the same time. All the other presidential and vice president candidates have been in the public glare for years or decades, they have already been dissected by the media many times over.

Exactly the same thing would have happened if the Democrats had picked an effective unknown. And let's not forget, she is under investigation over corruption charges, she did take a 3000 mile flight after her waters had broken, and she does have less than two years experience running an extremely underpopulated and atypical state. All these are certainly worth discussing, that they are being discussed at the same time is due to McCain the " maverick" rather than any liberal conspiracy.

Maybe she will turn out to be an excellent choice, but to prove that she is she will need to be able to withstand the questions (and yes the smears) that will inevitably follow a shock nomination.

[aerosolben]

I think it's just flop sweat from the Obama people. Moses was supposed to have parted the waters by now, giving the Democrats a huge lead in fundraising (remember when he was going to be the $100 million a month man?), and in the polls. Instead he's only up a few points, with the Republican Convention about to start. It's looking like Dukakis all over again.
Pshaw. Obama has opened his largest lead of the campaign (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll). Certainly, some of that is convention bounce, but the Dem convention can hardly be considered a failure. The base has consolidated considerably (~70% to high 80s, IIRC).

The Palin stuff is simply what happens when new faces show up in the campaign. Some left-wing bloggers may be particularly venomous due to the months of groundless attacks on Obama, but this is essentially the same thing. Meh.

Undecideds thought Palin was a good choice by a 6-3 margin. On Biden, the break was almost exactly the opposite; they thought Biden was a poor choice by 5-3. Small sample, so the error margin is huge, but it hardly indicates that Palin is this obviously terrible pick.
Rassmussen say 40% think Palin is a good choice, 39% thought Biden a good choice (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_makes_good_first_impression_is_viewed_more_f avorably_than_biden). 40% to 31% for Independents. Not major differences, and I'd expect them to move down for Palin after the attacks this week - both polls taken shortly after selection, when Biden was known and Palin was an unknown with a pretty face.

Note also that she has much higher positives with men than women (doesn't bode well for stealing Hillary voters), and VERY low numbers supporting her "presidential readiness".

I think we're still a week or two from substantial numbers though.

[PixyMisa]

I've had a good laff checking this forum. Before Palin, we had the Obama derangement people (we know who they are, all ..... what.... three of them?). Now theres this geyser of Palin stuff.

You guys should realize, you are the counterparts to those deranged Obama controversy stalkers that you think are moonbats.
Exactly my point. Yes, there were crazy stories being thrown around regarding Obama. And the people throwing those stories around are, well, crazy.

To the people on that ridiculous fake-pregnancy thread: What's your excuse?

[PixyMisa]

That said, even the GOP members on this thread have to admit that there is a lot of stuff flying around on Palin. If there was this much stuff floating around Biden we would have just as many threads about him after his pick.
Well, Biden is pregnant with an alien baby.

In the dreams of lunatics.

That's my point. We could have just as many rumours flying around about Biden, if we made them up.

[gdnp]

The other threads have even less to them, when you pause to examine the facts. And at least one is downright troofer-level insane.

Is that the "Is McCain throwing the election" thread? Or have I missed one? It's hard to keep up.

I was thinking about starting a thread about why people start threads about why people start threads about Palin. I just don't get it. But I think I'll wait a few days.

[PixyMisa]

Apparently she wasn't vetted by the RNC beforehand either.

Ooops.
Says... You.

McCain says different.

[PixyMisa]

Is that the "Is McCain throwing the election" thread? Or have I missed one? It's hard to keep up.
Sorry, haven't seen that one yet.

I was thinking of the alien baby thread. Uh, I mean, fake pregnancy. Whatever. It shifted every ten minutes anyway.

I was thinking about starting a thread about why people start threads about why people start threads about Palin. I just don't get it. But I think I'll wait a few days.:p

[gdnp]

Exactly my point. Yes, there were crazy stories being thrown around regarding Obama. And the people throwing those stories around are, well, crazy.

To the people on that ridiculous fake-pregnancy thread: What's your excuse?

Sorry, perhaps you could point out what is ridiculous about the fake pregnancy thread. There were curious inconsistencies and coincidences in the story proffered by Palin, and the only proof that the child was not her daughter's is that her daughter is now allegedly 5 months pregnant.

[PixyMisa]

Again, the GOP is completely above smears for sure..... Obama is a Muslim. Obama is anti-American because of his flag pin or lack of. Obama is racist. Obama is a elitist. Obama and the "fist bump." Obama and the Weatherman. Obama and the wounded troops. Obama doesn't display a US flag on his plane. Obama's wife talked about "Whitey" in a taped interview. Obama doesn't have a birth certificate. Obama does not say the pledge.

Now look at the BS above about Obama, how much of it goes to his policies or his ability to lead? All of these things are just "meant to create an atmosphere of negativitay about him."
Ah, the But Mom, he started it! defence. Thanks.

Which, I suppose, requires me to say: If the Republican nut fringe jumped off a bridge, would you follow them?

[PixyMisa]

Sorry, perhaps you could point out what is ridiculous about the fake pregnancy thread. There were curious inconsistencies and coincidences in the story proffered by Palin, and the only proof that the child was not her daughter's is that her daughter is now allegedly 5 months pregnant.
In your dreams. The idea was absurd to begin with, and the thread became more absurd - and disturbing - with each new post.

[varwoche]

Ah, the But Mom, he started it! defence. Thanks. I agree -- it's lame. Not meaning to detract from our point of agreement here, let's put it in context.

Who smeared Palin facts be damned? Random bozos on the internet.

Who smeared Obama facts be damned? Fox News Channel, WA Times and a slew of prominent right wing pundits.

[dirtywick]

Ah, the But Mom, he started it! defence. Thanks.

Which, I suppose, requires me to say: If the Republican nut fringe jumped off a bridge, would you follow them?

Besides your point here, but a vast majority of the Obama smears came out when he was running against Clinton; in fact, since he's gotten the nomination, I can't think of any new ones.

Clinton supporters weren't shy about using them either.

[gdnp]

In your dreams. The idea was absurd to begin with, and the thread became more absurd - and disturbing - with each new post.

There were certainly some lame attempts at confirmation or refutation. The photos that did or did not show women looking pregnant come to mind.

But what was absurd about the idea that the baby was not hers? I can imagine calling it unlikely, implausible, unsupported, but not absurd. Absurd is stating that her husband was really pregnant.

Let me spell it out.

Palin finds out daughter is 6 months pregnant. Wishing to avoid embarrassment to her daughter and potential damage to her political career, she decides to pretend to be pregnant and to claim the child as her own. She pads her stomach, announcing to her surprised staff at 7 months. Daughter needs to be kept out of public, so she is pulled from school for 4 months with "a bad case of mono". A sympathetic obstetrician agrees to go along with the ruse.

Palin flies to Arizona to give a speech, and while there receives a message that her daughter's water broke. She jumps on a plane and makes a 9 hour flight back to Alaska. Mom meets daughter in the hospital, and daughter gives birth. Birth certificate is handled quietly. Medical personnel are bound by ethics and by law not to reveal any patient information, but rumors leak out. Palin brings baby to work as she did with her 4th child to perpetuate the ruse.

Is this an absurd scenario? Is it inconsistent with the known facts at the time? Are their any laser weapons, aliens, or involvement of Thermite?

Of course, the criticism is that although plausible this is not likely and there is no evidence to support it. The case is entirely circumstantial, so why not just accept the simpler explanation that Palin is the mother and the daughter's mono was simply a coincidence? Or maybe the daughter was in rehab, who knows?

The one piece of information that continues to gnaw at me is the plane flight after Palin's water broke. I have stated before, this strains credulity: not that she would do it, but that the obstetrician would agree to it. A 44 year old multiparous woman 36 weeks pregnant with a Down syndrome child who has premature rupture of membranes should not be told by her doctor that it is OK to get on a plane without being examined. It is like a 60 year old diabetic with known heart disease and chest pain being told that it is OK to get on a plane without being ruled out for an MI. I might believe that Palin got on the plane against her doctor's advice, but not that a competent doctor would OK it.

So there it is. I am left with 2 scenarios, both with some weaknesses but both compatible with known facts. I find neither absurd. I lean towards Palin's story as more likely, and will accept it in the absence of contradictory data. If Bristol gives birth to a full term baby in 4 months, that will prove that she did not deliver in April. Unfortunately, that will not be until after the elections. Blood tests could prove everything irrefutably, but we will see those when pigs fly.

Still, I'd sure like to know what that obstetrician was thinking when she OK'ed Palin to fly.

[Meadmaker]

But what was absurd about the idea that the baby was not hers?

Do you really think the governor of a state could pretend to give birth, and no one blow the lid on it?

You said "an obstetrician" might go along with it. So, let's picture this. In the labor rooms at a hospital, the governor of Alaska and her daughter, both looking somewhat large in the waist, enter a room with one doctor, close the door, and out comes a baby after a while.

No staff. No nurses. Or will the whole hospital staff also keep the governor's secret?

No, the fake pregnancy stories were first class woo. Ridiculous. Not plausible. Not worthy of consideration by anyone.

[Meadmaker]

The one piece of information that continues to gnaw at me is the plane flight after Palin's water broke. I have stated before, this strains credulity: not that she would do it, but that the obstetrician would agree to it.

I must admit, when I first read the thread about the subject I had the same thoughts. I smelled a big time rat, and although I didn't buy into for a moment the whole "fake pregnancy" thing, I thought that it did indeed strain credulity.

Then I found out, in the thread, that there was a simple explanation. Her water didn't break. Ask yourself where you read that. It's not an accurate version of events.

[PixyMisa]

Palin finds out daughter is 6 months pregnant. Wishing to avoid embarrassment to her daughter and potential damage to her political career, she decides to pretend to be pregnant and to claim the child as her own. She pads her stomach, announcing to her surprised staff at 7 months. Daughter needs to be kept out of public, so she is pulled from school for 4 months with "a bad case of mono". A sympathetic obstetrician agrees to go along with the ruse.
Riiiight. Based on what evidence? Oh, none.

Palin flies to Arizona to give a speech, and while there receives a message that her daughter's water broke. She jumps on a plane and makes a 9 hour flight back to Alaska. Mom meets daughter in the hospital, and daughter gives birth. Birth certificate is handled quietly.
Where it's usually a public spectacle, right.

Medical personnel are bound by ethics and by law not to reveal any patient information, but rumors leak out.
Right. They'll engage in bribery and fraud, but won't talk, because hey, that would be unethical!

Palin brings baby to work as she did with her 4th child to perpetuate the ruse.

Is this an absurd scenario?
Yes.

Is it inconsistent with the known facts at the time? Are their any laser weapons, aliens, or involvement of Thermite?
Hey, you're the one making it up, you tell me.

Of course, the criticism is that although plausible this is not likely and there is no evidence to support it. The case is entirely circumstantial, so why not just accept the simpler explanation that Palin is the mother and the daughter's mono was simply a coincidence? Or maybe the daughter was in rehab, who knows?
Or Obama's the father! That fits the known facts too.

[PixyMisa]

No staff. No nurses. Or will the whole hospital staff also keep the governor's secret?
Right. That's the essence of it.

It's not (or not only) the wild claims that people did ridiculous things; after all, people do ridiculous things all the time.

It's that an ever-expanding circle of people are required to keep a secret.

[PixyMisa]

I agree -- it's lame. Not meaning to detract from our point of agreement here, let's put it in context.

Who smeared Palin facts be damned? Random bozos on the internet.
Funny way to refer to your fellow JREF forum members.

[FaisonMars]

No, the fake pregnancy stories were first class woo. Ridiculous. Not plausible. Not worthy of consideration by anyone.

The fake pregnancy stories were the result of rumors that had been creeping around in Alaska going national.

There were three independent pieces of circumstantial evidence that indicated smoke, and therefore further investigation for fire:
1) The bizarre flight from Texas to Alaska after she was leaking fluid to give birth to a special-needs preemie in a small-town hospital.
2) Bristol's extended absence from school, much longer than a typical mono infection.
3) Palin's staff was surprised when she announced her pregnancy at 7 months, since she wasn't showing, and she always had in her four previous pregnancies.

The ONLY reason that this was relevant to the political race is that if the governor perpetrated such a cover-up, then she would be unfit for office.

I went from being 80% sure that babygate was false on Saturday to being 99% sure it's false on Monday after the announcement about Bristol. I don't understand at all why those rumors forced them to announce Bristol's pregnancy earlier than they would have wanted to.... Frankly, I think they needed to get it out before the convention anyway.

The difference between those of us who thought there might be something to babygate and the truthers is that, when presented with new evidence, I/we are willing to drop the argument (or at least confidence in the argument-- there's still some fishy business, but it's not adding up any more if Bristol is really 5 months). Comparing this to truthers is a straw man argument.

The story that Bristol is pregnant is not relevant to the race, except as much as people will make judgements about Palin concerning her abilities as a parent and/or her hypocrisy about abstinence-only sex education. Now that it's out there, people will interpret it as they will. The photoshopping of myspace photos going around is shameful and scurrilous, and I feel sorry for Bristol that she's going through this.

I'm still astonished that people are spinning the pregnancy as "a problem ordinary Americans face...." Why do they face this problem? Why does the US have the highest teen pregnancy rate of any developed country in the world? Does it have anything to do with the conservatives' moralizing about sex?

I disagree with Ben's criticisms toward Palin for pursuing her political career over her family, but many people (more conservatives than liberals, I expect) will make that judgement.

There are plenty of other reasons not to vote for her than her family life, and those are what are mainly being covered in the mainstream press now.

[corplinx]

Apparently, Ben Burch's internet notoriety is in part from defacing the DU and Protest Warrior pages on Wikipedia. He was deranged before Palin. The Palin choice just made him make it completely obvious to everyone.

[quarky]

You have some data on the number of women who had, or aborted, a retarded baby broken down by political party?



A liberal mom would want any daughter to have the choice. Most liberal moms would like it to be an informed choice, and many would not abort the baby.

But to many people who think that pro-choice means pro-abortion in all cases, it would make sense that they think any democrat would abort all babies because their agenda is to abort as many babies as possible.

My comments were meant to illuminate the symbolic implications of McCain's pick. Polls have suggested that the Christian right were unhappy with McCain's stance on abortion, even though he's since changed it. Palin represents no abortion. Evangelicals see liberals as being vague about abortion. Its a symbolic pick. Palin is non-elite; not a D.C. insider, etc.

It barely matters what she is. It matters what it is she appears to not be.

[varwoche]

Funny way to refer to your fellow JREF forum members. We are all random bozos on the internet. What we post here, or what other random bozos post elsewhere, is of little or no national significance. What news outlets publish is of national significance on the other hand.

(I thought everyone was familiar with the random bozo principle.;))

[andyandy]

Do you really think the governor of a state could pretend to give birth, and no one blow the lid on it?

You said "an obstetrician" might go along with it. So, let's picture this. In the labor rooms at a hospital, the governor of Alaska and her daughter, both looking somewhat large in the waist, enter a room with one doctor, close the door, and out comes a baby after a while.

No staff. No nurses. Or will the whole hospital staff also keep the governor's secret?

No, the fake pregnancy stories were first class woo. Ridiculous. Not plausible. Not worthy of consideration by anyone.

Don't you have patient confidentiality in America? Leaking medical details would be a sackable offence in the UK. I'm happy to give the woman the benefit of the doubt (especially now since her daughter has actually announced a pregnancy), which just leaves the baffling decision to fly transcontinental 3000 miles after your waters had broken. To say that it is "woo" effectively means that we should not question whether any official has ever lied about any event, a mother raising her daughter's child as her own is not ridiculously implausible by any stretch of the imagination.

[andyandy]

I must admit, when I first read the thread about the subject I had the same thoughts. I smelled a big time rat, and although I didn't buy into for a moment the whole "fake pregnancy" thing, I thought that it did indeed strain credulity.

Then I found out, in the thread, that there was a simple explanation. Her water didn't break. Ask yourself where you read that. It's not an accurate version of events.

It is the version of events which she provided. She later said that actually her waters had "leaked" rather than broken, which according to the quoted gynaecologist is treated with precisely the same advice: go directly to hospital, you're vulnerable to infection. She also admits to having labour contractions whilst in the conference. Under such circumstances do you honestly think it would be sensible to fly? Then throw in a disabled child and an older woman raising delivery risks....

as you start out with pretty remarkable events, it is worth discussing how they came about. As the pregnancy fake story can be taken to be false, we are just left with an absolutely baffling decision, taken supposedly on the advice of her local doctor...

[Meadmaker]

The fake pregnancy stories were the result of rumors that had been creeping around in Alaska going national.

Which shows that there are a lot of unthinking rumormongers in Alaska.

When you're governor of a state, you can't get away with hoodwinks on the proposed scale.

[FaisonMars]

I'm still astonished that people are spinning the pregnancy as "a problem ordinary Americans face...." Why do they face this problem? Why does the US have the highest teen pregnancy rate of any developed country in the world? Does it have anything to do with the conservatives' moralizing about sex?


One more note about this-- I just heard an interview with Sam Brownback on the radio about Palin and the pregnancy, and his response was, "... these things happen...."

What can you do, pregnancies just happen.... Who can question why God sends the stork to visit this teenager or that one, it's just a great mystery....

[Meadmaker]

Don't you have patient confidentiality in America?

This isn't about medical treatment details. It's about the "Mother's Name" entry on a birth certificate. (For those of you in Massachusetts, that's "Parent A") You aren't allowed to forge that.

which just leaves the baffling decision to fly transcontinental 3000 miles after your waters had broken.

She was leaking amniotic fluid. It happens. I know when I was going through those baby classes before my son was born, it was brought up as a possibility. I know my wife was having contractions on and off for a week before my son was born.

Was it a good, sensible, decision? I don't know. It strikes me as odd, but then again, as governor of the state you aren't hopping a commercial flight and trying to catch a taxi at the airport. I have no idea what conversation occurred with her doctor, with any other doctors that might have been present in Arizona, with the airline. I really have no idea. It strikes me as a bit odd that she didn't at least check in to a hospital, get examined, and then make an informed decision based on the results of that examination. (At least, if she did, I haven't heard of it.) However, it isn't reason to believe that she was never pregnant and faked childbirth. You might be able to pass that off at a family reunion, but not as a governor of a state.


To say that it is "woo" effectively means that we should not question whether any official has ever lied about any event....

Not sure I follow your reasoning here.

[Meadmaker]

Then throw in a disabled child and an older woman raising delivery risks....



Not that this is a major point, but did she know the child had Down's Syndrome?

She doesn't believe in abortion under any circumstances. My guess is that there had been no genetic testing prior to delivery.

[FaisonMars]

Not that this is a major point, but did she know the child had Down's Syndrome?

She doesn't believe in abortion under any circumstances. My guess is that there had been no genetic testing prior to delivery.

She knew-- it was in the ADN story.

She did fly on a commercial airline from Texas to Alaska, Alaska Airlines, with a stopover in Seattle.

If you haven't seen it, here's the Palin decision tree:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_stuMq1GJnrA/SLvqOMMwKoI/AAAAAAAAB8k/I4HHM76Q214/s1600-h/sarahpalinla4.png

[not_so_new]

Apparently she wasn't vetted by the RNC beforehand either.

Ooops.

Says... You.

McCain says different.

Funny, the president of the Republican-run Alaska State Senate agrees with Alfred.

Lyda Green, president of the Republican-run Alaska State Senate, said she never heard from anyone connected with the McCain campaign, nor did others in the state whom Green considered obvious sources of useful information.

As does an "unnamed source in the GOP." Obviously this holds a little less weight but if you want to fight that battle you will need to bring it up with the reporter in question, until you win we have to assume that this source is legitimate.

A Republican strategist with close ties to the McCain camp, however, said Palin was a last-minute choice after McCain had given up on his preferred pick, Sen. Joe Lieberman, an independent from Connecticut, who addressed the convention Tuesday night. "He did so with such speed that they weren't able to do the full vet," said the GOP source, who did not want to be identified discussing the campaign's internal machinations.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-na-vetting3-2008sep03,0,4884389.story

[dudalb]

Exactly my point. Yes, there were crazy stories being thrown around regarding Obama. And the people throwing those stories around are, well, crazy.

To the people on that ridiculous fake-pregnancy thread: What's your excuse?


Anything is justfied to help get Obama elected.

[not_so_new]

Ah, the But Mom, he started it! defence. Thanks.

Which, I suppose, requires me to say: If the Republican nut fringe jumped off a bridge, would you follow them?

Didn't your primary care giver as a child inform you that taking quotes out of context to make your argument is not nice and tends to deflate your own point?

Let's take a look at what your out of context quote of mine really said shall we.

I said…..

Again, the GOP is completely above smears for sure..... Obama is a Muslim. Obama is anti-American because of his flag pin or lack of. Obama is racist. Obama is a elitist. Obama and the "fist bump." Obama and the Weatherman. Obama and the wounded troops. Obama doesn't display a US flag on his plane. Obama's wife talked about "Whitey" in a taped interview. Obama doesn't have a birth certificate. Obama does not say the pledge.

Now look at the BS above about Obama, how much of it goes to his policies or his ability to lead? All of these things are just "meant to create an atmosphere of negativity about him."

The bolded section is in reply to a post from Sefarst, where he said

It seems the Left's strategy right now is just to create an atmosphere of negativity around her.

My reply was to point out the pot vs. kettle stance that Sefast took NOT to play "he started it!" games that you tried to twist my words into saying.


Contrast that to the list I posted above about Palin, discussions on her policies and her choices.

This last line that you omitted was the whole point of my post. Smears about made up BS is just that, BS. But questions of policies and choices should be front and center as these go to judgment and ability of a given candidate to lead.

IF Obama didn't say the pledge what would that say about his ability to lead the country? That is not a policy question and I would like to see more policy questions and answers.

Questions to Palin's involvment in the AIP ARE policy based because of their policy. I have yet to see her distance herself from their polices and, unlike questions about flag pins, I believe these are valid questions in a presidential contest.

[boloboffin]

CrG8w4bb3kg

Live mic: Mike Murphy, Peggy Noonan. PDS in full bloom.

[not_so_new]

CrG8w4bb3kg

Live mic: Mike Murphy, Peggy Noonan. PDS in full bloom.

I am a little skeptical that these are their voices after the cut away (healthy skepticism is a good thing). That said, if it is them speaking it's pretty funny. And I agree with them as well.

[Sefarst]

Again, the GOP is completely above smears for sure..... Obama is a Muslim. Obama is anti-American because of his flag pin or lack of. Obama is racist. Obama is a elitist. Obama and the "fist bump." Obama and the Weatherman. Obama and the wounded troops. Obama doesn't display a US flag on his plane. Obama's wife talked about "Whitey" in a taped interview. Obama doesn't have a birth certificate. Obama does not say the pledge.

Several of those I mentioned in my earlier post and said they were pulled out of thin air. No one is denying they were fabrications.

Now look at the BS above about Obama, how much of it goes to his policies or his ability to lead? All of these things are just "meant to create an atmosphere of negativitay about him."

No kidding. Your point?

Contrast that to the list I posted above about Palin, discussions on her policies and her choices.

And rumours about her family and other nasty accusations and insinuations made even by members of this very board. I'm not sure if you're trying to paint the picture that the criticism of Palin has been legitimate policy criticisms while Obama's criticisms have only been lapel pins and whitey videos. Nobody's arguing the fact that both sides have been playing in the mud.

I am trying to stay above the smear and talk about the ability of Palin (and Obama, and Biden, and McCain) to lead the nation. I think that should be what we focus on but it seems that both sides want to smear.... and it also seems the GOP is more in-tune with the smear politics than the DNC.
I'm glad that YOU may be trying to do that, but many others are not.

While you may say its not your intention to imply that if its done to Obama its okay to do it to Palin, but you do come off as sounding like that.

[NotJesus]

I am a little skeptical that these are their voices after the cut away (healthy skepticism is a good thing).

It sure sounds like them.

[not_so_new]

It sure sounds like them.
I agree..... I just don't believe everything I hear or see especially when I want to believe it.

:p

It sure does sound like them though.

[not_so_new]

Now look at the BS above about Obama, how much of it goes to his policies or his ability to lead? All of these things are just "meant to create an atmosphere of negativity about him."

No kidding. Your point?

My point was already in the post you quoted... where I said.

My reply was to point out the pot vs. kettle stance that Sefast took NOT to play "he started it!" games that you tried to twist my words into saying.




And rumors about her family and other nasty accusations and insinuations made even by members of this very board. I'm not sure if you're trying to paint the picture that the criticism of Palin has been legitimate policy criticisms while Obama's criticisms have only been lapel pins and whitey videos. Nobody's arguing the fact that both sides have been playing in the mud.

Okay, step back and look at what you quoted from me please. I said "contrast that to the list I posted above about Palin..."

If you look at the list I was pointing to you will see that my argument is very clear.

Here is that post including the list I reference.

I think some of the stuff going on around Palin is wrong and have said so on this forum. But questions of Palin's political and personal decisions go to her ability to lead the nation if something were to happen to McCain were he to be elected.

- Bridge to nowhere flip flopping
- Troopergate investigation
- Alaskan Independence Party motto "Alaska First -- Alaska Always" (counter to McCain's "America First" motto)
- Her stance on AGW
- Her stance on teaching evolution
- Her stance on abstinence only while having a 17 year old pregnant daughter
- Palin doesn't know what the VP job is actually about
- Palin didn't have an opinion on Iraq as of July 07
- Questions of impropriety on a land deal


I'm glad that YOU may be trying to do that, but many others are not.

I agree but I can't control the actions of others, I can only control my own.

While you may say its not your intention to imply that if its done to Obama its okay to do it to Palin, but you do come off as sounding like that.

Not if you read what I actually said.

Go back and look at it again because I clearly said "I think some of the stuff going on around Palin is wrong and have said so on this forum." I also said "I am trying to stay above the smear and talk about the ability of Palin (and Obama, and Biden, and McCain) to lead the nation. "

I think it is fair to ask questions about policy and the actions candidates have taken in the past that reflect how they would do their jobs if elected.

I DO NOT think that it is okay to practice "good for the goose / good for the gander" politics and I feel personal questions to family members or about family members are off limits (questions about Palin's daughter should be asked but limited to ONLY questions about Palin's stance on Abstinence Only, I feel that is fair because the GOP has made AO a part of their party policy).

[BenBurch]

CrG8w4bb3kg

Live mic: Mike Murphy, Peggy Noonan. PDS in full bloom.

My sincere apologies. Had I realized you already had this clip in this thread, I would not have started a whole new thread for it 15 minutes later.

[andyandy]

I am a little skeptical that these are their voices after the cut away (healthy skepticism is a good thing). That said, if it is them speaking it's pretty funny. And I agree with them as well.

Who are the people talking? Republicans?

[not_so_new]

Who are the people talking? Republicans?

Peggy Noonan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Noonan) and Mike Murphy. I am not 100% sure if he is the guy from Indiana but that's who I think he is.

[NotJesus]

Who are the people talking? Republicans?

Yes. Peggy Noonan is a former Reagan speechwriter and current Wall Street Journal columnist. Mike Murphy is a Republican consultant who worked for McCain in 2000.

[andyandy]

Thanks. It might be a little embarrassing but I thought it might be a recording of some Republican delegates talking - which would have been much more damaging.

That does get me thinking, why don't some Democrat moles mingle in the conference with hidden microphones? Or even hidden cameras? There's bound to be some idle talk somewhere worth recording. Do they try and guard against electrical recording devices? Surely someone must have thought about trying it before (for either party)

[PixyMisa]

Didn't your primary care giver as a child inform you that taking quotes out of context to make your argument is not nice and tends to deflate your own point?

This last line that you omitted was the whole point of my post. Smears about made up BS is just that, BS. But questions of policies and choices should be front and center as these go to judgment and ability of a given candidate to lead.
Ah, the old irregular verb defence.

I question.
You malign.
He posts on Democratic Underground.

[PixyMisa]

Just to expand slightly:

Let's examine the record of legislation Obama has introduced.

Um.

Okay, let's look at his voting record.

Um.

Okay.

But I'm sure he's a really nice guy! Let's elect him President based on what he hasn't done!

[BenBurch]

Just to expand slightly:

Let's examine the record of legislation Obama has introduced.

Um.

Okay, let's look at his voting record.

Um.

Okay.

But I'm sure he's a really nice guy! Let's elect him President based on what he hasn't done!

Please do not pretend you have looked at all 800 bills he introduced as an Illinois Senator. It's unseemly to pretend to do things you have not done.

Obama's record in miniature;

B.A in political science from Columbia University, with a specialization in international relations
J.D. in Law from Hardvard, graduated magna cum laude; President of the Harvard Law Review
12 years (92-04) teaching constitutional law
7 years State Senator: sponsored more than 800 bills
4 years Senator for Illinos, a state with 12.8 million people

[EatatJoes]

...
Palin's Daughter, Bristol, is going to be a teenaged mother. This may have a few effects. The republicans may put it forward that sex-ed doesn't work ("SEE! She got PREGNANT!") and use it to push abstinence only education. She is keeping the baby. Obviously pro-life. She is going to marry the father. This will go over well with the Christian 'Family Values' crowd.
...

I'm already seeing this in other forums. "Well, I got pregnant on birth control, so there!". Brilliant cows.

[PixyMisa]

Anyway, that's largely beside the point. Questions on, for example, Palin's statements on the teaching of evolution are appropriate and very relevant to this forum. They've been fairly well addressed (still kind of depressing, though), but as I said, relevant and appropriate.

Troopergate? Okay, worth asking.

The alien baby thing? The Youtube video of Palin's daughter Phoebe's best friend's cousin's pregnant guinea pig?

If it had happened on DU or DKos, it would have been pretty much as expected. Being a voice of reason on places like that tends to get you banned.

But it happened here. Among the nominally sane.

[PixyMisa]

Please do not pretend you have looked at all 800 bills he introduced as an Illinois Senator.
The what?

It's unseemly to pretend to do things you have not done.
Yep.

Obama's record in miniature;

B.A in political science from Columbia University, with a specialization in international relations
J.D. in Law from Hardvard, graduated magna cum laude; President of the Harvard Law Review
12 years (92-04) teaching constitutional law
This is not particularly relevant experience, but it does point to very relevant knowledge. I do consider an understanding of constitutional law valuable in an American President.

7 years State Senator: sponsored more than 800 bills
Exactly. Sponsoring a bill means nothing. That's how he did it 800 times.

Introducing your own bill is significant.
4 years Senator for Illinos, a state with 12.8 million peopleYeah. And?

[PixyMisa]

Aargh, sidetracked. :(

Anyway, BenBurch: Why the unhealthy interest in what pictures may or may not have been posted on MySpace by Governor Palin's children's friend's siblings?

Why the utterly deranged alien baby thread?

You started those threads. Why?

[BenBurch]

Aargh, sidetracked. :(

Anyway, BenBurch: Why the unhealthy interest in what pictures may or may not have been posted on MySpace by Governor Palin's children's friend's siblings?

Why the utterly deranged alien baby thread?

You started those threads. Why?

"unhealthy?" Your spin and I think a personal attack, too.

Those are all stories in the media.

I live in the political media daily.

I own part of one radio network and work for another.

These things cross my desk each and every day.

And I bring them here to discuss.

You can choose to believe that discussion is affirmation if you like, but all reasonable people know the difference.

I will continue to bring things here that I find worthy of discussion.

And if you don't like it you are free to toddle off, OK?

[gdnp]

Do you really think the governor of a state could pretend to give birth, and no one blow the lid on it?
Very few people needed to know, and presumably most would have been sympathetic or scared to reveal the truth, either for ethical reasons or because of fear of retribution: she has a reputation for that. How would the information most likely get out? As leaks, reported as rumors. Which is pretty much what we had.

You said "an obstetrician" might go along with it. So, let's picture this. In the labor rooms at a hospital, the governor of Alaska and her daughter, both looking somewhat large in the waist, enter a room with one doctor, close the door, and out comes a baby after a while.

No staff. No nurses. Or will the whole hospital staff also keep the governor's secret?
You act like a hospital room is grand central station. When my children were born the labor room had my wife, me, a certified nurse midwife, and a labor nurse. The same nurse was present for the entire labor process.

Now imagine that the "patient" is the governor of Alaska, accompanied by her husband and teenage daughter. Of COURSE the hospital will do everything possible to protect the governor's privacy from curious onlookers. It is entirely expected when a hospital has such a celebrity patient. So there need have been only one or two outsiders in the room during labor, presumably vetted beforehand and sympathetic. Evidence? none. But plausible? yes.

No, the fake pregnancy stories were first class woo. Ridiculous. Not plausible. Not worthy of consideration by anyone.
The biggest weakness in the story is the birth certificate. Of course, no one has reported seeing the birth certificate, so we really do not know who is listed as the mother. Then again, if the governor of the state told some hospital flunky who had not witnessed the delivery that she was the mother, do you think the flunky would have argued, having read all the press releases?

Yeah, it's a conspiracy, but not a particularly elaborate one. It requires the complicity of Palin, her daughter, her obstetrician, and perhaps a small number of additional hospital personnel.

I must admit, when I first read the thread about the subject I had the same thoughts. I smelled a big time rat, and although I didn't buy into for a moment the whole "fake pregnancy" thing, I thought that it did indeed strain credulity.

Then I found out, in the thread, that there was a simple explanation. Her water didn't break. Ask yourself where you read that. It's not an accurate version of events.
As has been pointed out, it did break. Leakage=breakage. Why else would they have induced her at 36 weeks the day she returned rather than let her carry to term? If there is an alternative explanation it has not been mentioned.

To repeat my current bottom line: No, I do not buy this whole "fake pregnancy" thing. DNA testing is unlikely to be done. If her daughter really is 5 months pregnant now, that would rule out Trig being her child, leading to the conclusion that Palin really is the Trig's mother. Assuming no miscarriages, we'll know for sure in 4 months or so. Right around inauguration day. I doubt she'll be on Obama's guest list.

Until then I will accept the standard dogma, but remain skeptical and open to additional data.

[leftysergeant]

When this was a scurrilous rumor being posted here only, I was pretty harsh on those pushing it. Now that it's out in the liberal blogosphere, I'm happy to let it continue. Here's some more rope!

A scurrilous rumor is one that has no basis in known facts or discernable evidence.

She acted in a way that most women and most feminists I know considered to be irrational and dangerous in a complicated pregnancy.

Remeber how so many people pointed out that there were few pictures readily available that even suggested she was preggers? Remember how many pictures of Bristol were pointed out that suggested that she was knocked up?

Put the two togehter, and it does say that something wierd was going on here. Turns oput that there was.

The lady who advocates denying birth control information to teenage girls, on the basis that teaching them to just say "no" is the best way to prevent teen pregnancies and STDs has a knocked-up daughter.

In case you missed it, it's called "schadenfreude."

Is schadenfreude unkind and inappropriate? I think not, as long as the victim has earned it in some way. It really isn't that funny to see a schlemiel drop mashed potatoes on the schlmazel's lap, but a riot when the schlimazel dumps his hot coffee in the schlemiel's lap when he tries to shake off the mashed potatoes.

This has been one good laugh after another for me.

[shuize]

In case you missed it, it's called "schadenfreude."

Is schadenfreude unkind and inappropriate? I think not, as long as the victim has earned it in some way. It really isn't that funny to see a schlemiel drop mashed potatoes on the schlmazel's lap, but a riot when the schlimazel dumps his hot coffee in the schlemiel's lap when he tries to shake off the mashed potatoes.

This has been one good laugh after another for me.


I don't know if McCain will win this election. But if he does, I will remember posts like this when I'm laughing my ass off.

Schadenfreude.

[gtc]

Put the two togehter, and it does say that something wierd was going on here. Turns oput that there was.

The lady who advocates denying birth control information to teenage girls, on the basis that teaching them to just say "no" is the best way to prevent teen pregnancies and STDs has a knocked-up daughter.

Since when has a pregnant teenager been 'weird'?

In case you missed it, it's called "schadenfreude."

Is schadenfreude unkind and inappropriate? I think not, as long as the victim has earned it in some way.

Pray tell how the teenage daughter had it coming?

[leftysergeant]

Bristol didn't have it coming, as far as I know, but her mother did, for being a wierd, anti-scientific bimbo who wants to tell us how to educate our kids. She is not fit for the job, and mother nature helped prove it.

[gdnp]

Bristol didn't have it coming, as far as I know, but her mother did, for being a wierd, anti-scientific bimbo who wants to tell us how to educate our kids. She is not fit for the job, and mother nature helped prove it.

I think the bimbo comment is going to far, and counterproductive. Just because I don't see a small town redneck mayor as the most qualified person to take over as VP does not imply that her story does not resonate with large numbers of independent voters who are more comfortable with her Legally Blond meets 9 to 5 success story than with the story of Ivy League trained "liberals".

[Tricky]

I think the bimbo comment is going to far, and counterproductive. Just because I don't see a small town redneck mayor as the most qualified person to take over as VP does not imply that her story does not resonate with large numbers of independent voters who are more comfortable with her Legally Blond meets 9 to 5 success story than with the story of Ivy League trained "liberals".
LOL. You don't like "bimbo" but "redneck" is okay?

I always assumed rednecks were southerners, not just rural folk. But I agree with your sentiment. Perhaps it is impossible to get a wicked dose of schadenfreude when the guys you are working against get bad news. Human nature, I suppose, and it goes both ways. But to reason it out and still be glad for the misery of others, as Lefty has done, shows a disturbing lack of compassion, and it makes your side look bad.

Let's stick to the facts. She is a secretive, power-hungry, woman who tolerates no disloyalty. The facts are condemning enough. No need to get nasty. Let's try to keep a rein on our schadenfreude, difficult though it may be.

[Wangler]

Please do not pretend you have looked at all 800 bills he introduced as an Illinois Senator. It's unseemly to pretend to do things you have not done.

Obama's record in miniature;

B.A in political science from Columbia University, with a specialization in international relations
J.D. in Law from Hardvard, graduated magna cum laude; President of the Harvard Law Review
12 years (92-04) teaching constitutional law
7 years State Senator: sponsored more than 800 bills
4 years Senator for Illinos, a state with 12.8 million people

BenBurch,

the republicans say he didn't "author" any legislation...do you know if he did or not?

Sponsoring is not the same as authoring........

[Pookster]

BenBurch,

the republicans say he didn't "author" any legislation...do you know if he did or not?

Sponsoring is not the same as authoring........


Sponsoring does seem to mean he introduced it though, according to ...

http://thomas.loc.gov

For example from their search page:

[110th] S.767 : A bill to increase fuel economy standards for automobiles and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 3/6/2007) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation
Latest Major Action: 3/6/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

[Pookster]

This seems to have a comprehensive list of bills Obama sponsored ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_Uni ted_States_Senate

[Pookster]

Here is another he sponsored ...


S.713
Title: A bill to ensure dignity in care for members of the Armed Forces recovering from injuries.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 2/28/2007) Cosponsors (34)
Related Bills: H.R.1268
Latest Major Action: 2/28/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.
Jump to: Summary, Major Actions, All Actions, Titles, Cosponsors, Committees, Related Bill Details, Amendments
SUMMARY AS OF:
2/28/2007--Introduced.

Dignity for Wounded Warriors Act of 2007 - Requires each recovering servicemember who is assigned to a military barracks or dormitory to be assigned to one that is maintained at the highest service standard in effect for enlisted members of the Armed Forces. Requires at least semiannual inspections of, and appropriate repairs to, any such quarters, as well as alternate housing during periods of unremedied housing deficiencies.

Outlines requirements to be implemented for recovering servicemembers and their families, including: (1) physical disability evaluation system changes; (2) supervising officer and caseworker support; (3) increased training for caseworkers and social workers on particular servicemember conditions, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD); (4) increased support services, including an Ombudsman for Recovering Servicemembers; (5) a prohibition on discrimination in employment of family members caring for such servicemembers; and (6) meal benefits for recovering servicemembers and family members caring for such servicemembers.

Establishes the Oversight Board for the Wounded.
MAJOR ACTIONS:

***NONE***

ALL ACTIONS:

2/28/2007:
Sponsor introductory remarks on measure. (CR S2363-2364)
2/28/2007:
Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

TITLE(S): (italics indicate a title for a portion of a bill)

***NONE***

COSPONSORS(34), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)


Sen Baucus, Max [MT] - 2/28/2007
Sen Bayh, Evan [IN] - 2/28/2007
Sen Biden, Joseph R., Jr. [DE] - 2/28/2007
Sen Bingaman, Jeff [NM] - 2/28/2007
Sen Bond, Christopher S. [MO] - 2/28/2007
Sen Boxer, Barbara [CA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Brown, Sherrod [OH] - 2/28/2007
Sen Byrd, Robert C. [WV] - 3/8/2007
Sen Cantwell, Maria [WA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Cardin, Benjamin L. [MD] - 3/14/2007
Sen Carper, Thomas R. [DE] - 3/12/2007
Sen Conrad, Kent [ND] - 2/28/2007
Sen Dorgan, Byron L. [ND] - 2/28/2007
Sen Durbin, Richard [IL] - 2/28/2007
Sen Feingold, Russell D. [WI] - 2/28/2007
Sen Harkin, Tom [IA] - 3/6/2007
Sen Johnson, Tim [SD] - 5/11/2007
Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Klobuchar, Amy [MN] - 2/28/2007
Sen Landrieu, Mary L. [LA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. [NJ] - 3/12/2007
Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. [CT] - 3/1/2007
Sen Lincoln, Blanche L. [AR] - 3/7/2007
Sen McCaskill, Claire [MO] - 2/28/2007
Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. [MD] - 2/28/2007
Sen Murkowski, Lisa [AK] - 2/28/2007
Sen Pryor, Mark L. [AR] - 2/28/2007
Sen Rockefeller, John D., IV [WV] - 2/28/2007
Sen Sanders, Bernard [VT] - 2/28/2007
Sen Snowe, Olympia J. [ME] - 2/28/2007
Sen Stabenow, Debbie [MI] - 6/27/2007
Sen Tester, Jon [MT] - 6/12/2007
Sen Whitehouse, Sheldon [RI] - 4/19/2007
Sen Wyden, Ron [OR] - 3/19/2007

COMMITTEE(S):

Committee/Subcommittee: Activity:
Senate Armed Services Referral, In Committee

RELATED BILL DETAILS: (additional related bills may be indentified in Status)

Bill: Relationship:
H.R.1268 Related bill identified by CRS

AMENDMENT(S):

***NONE***

[Wangler]

Here is another he sponsored ...


S.713
Title: A bill to ensure dignity in care for members of the Armed Forces recovering from injuries.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 2/28/2007) Cosponsors (34)
Related Bills: H.R.1268
Latest Major Action: 2/28/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.
Jump to: Summary, Major Actions, All Actions, Titles, Cosponsors, Committees, Related Bill Details, Amendments
SUMMARY AS OF:
2/28/2007--Introduced.

Dignity for Wounded Warriors Act of 2007 - Requires each recovering servicemember who is assigned to a military barracks or dormitory to be assigned to one that is maintained at the highest service standard in effect for enlisted members of the Armed Forces. Requires at least semiannual inspections of, and appropriate repairs to, any such quarters, as well as alternate housing during periods of unremedied housing deficiencies.

Outlines requirements to be implemented for recovering servicemembers and their families, including: (1) physical disability evaluation system changes; (2) supervising officer and caseworker support; (3) increased training for caseworkers and social workers on particular servicemember conditions, including post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD); (4) increased support services, including an Ombudsman for Recovering Servicemembers; (5) a prohibition on discrimination in employment of family members caring for such servicemembers; and (6) meal benefits for recovering servicemembers and family members caring for such servicemembers.

Establishes the Oversight Board for the Wounded.
MAJOR ACTIONS:

***NONE***

ALL ACTIONS:

2/28/2007:
Sponsor introductory remarks on measure. (CR S2363-2364)
2/28/2007:
Read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services.

TITLE(S): (italics indicate a title for a portion of a bill)

***NONE***

COSPONSORS(34), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)


Sen Baucus, Max [MT] - 2/28/2007
Sen Bayh, Evan [IN] - 2/28/2007
Sen Biden, Joseph R., Jr. [DE] - 2/28/2007
Sen Bingaman, Jeff [NM] - 2/28/2007
Sen Bond, Christopher S. [MO] - 2/28/2007
Sen Boxer, Barbara [CA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Brown, Sherrod [OH] - 2/28/2007
Sen Byrd, Robert C. [WV] - 3/8/2007
Sen Cantwell, Maria [WA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Cardin, Benjamin L. [MD] - 3/14/2007
Sen Carper, Thomas R. [DE] - 3/12/2007
Sen Conrad, Kent [ND] - 2/28/2007
Sen Dorgan, Byron L. [ND] - 2/28/2007
Sen Durbin, Richard [IL] - 2/28/2007
Sen Feingold, Russell D. [WI] - 2/28/2007
Sen Harkin, Tom [IA] - 3/6/2007
Sen Johnson, Tim [SD] - 5/11/2007
Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Klobuchar, Amy [MN] - 2/28/2007
Sen Landrieu, Mary L. [LA] - 2/28/2007
Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. [NJ] - 3/12/2007
Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. [CT] - 3/1/2007
Sen Lincoln, Blanche L. [AR] - 3/7/2007
Sen McCaskill, Claire [MO] - 2/28/2007
Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. [MD] - 2/28/2007
Sen Murkowski, Lisa [AK] - 2/28/2007
Sen Pryor, Mark L. [AR] - 2/28/2007
Sen Rockefeller, John D., IV [WV] - 2/28/2007
Sen Sanders, Bernard [VT] - 2/28/2007
Sen Snowe, Olympia J. [ME] - 2/28/2007
Sen Stabenow, Debbie [MI] - 6/27/2007
Sen Tester, Jon [MT] - 6/12/2007
Sen Whitehouse, Sheldon [RI] - 4/19/2007
Sen Wyden, Ron [OR] - 3/19/2007

COMMITTEE(S):

Committee/Subcommittee: Activity:
Senate Armed Services Referral, In Committee

RELATED BILL DETAILS: (additional related bills may be indentified in Status)

Bill: Relationship:
H.R.1268 Related bill identified by CRS

AMENDMENT(S):

***NONE***

Pookster, thanks a mil!

[Wangler]

Sponsoring does seem to mean he introduced it though, according to ...

http://thomas.loc.gov

For example from their search page:

[110th] S.767 : A bill to increase fuel economy standards for automobiles and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 3/6/2007) Cosponsors (6)
Committees: Senate Commerce, Science, and Transportation
Latest Major Action: 3/6/2007 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation.

Pookster, that link is great!

Here is a weird one:

S.906
Title: A bill to prohibit the sale, distribution, transfer, and export of elemental mercury, and for other purposes.

[boloboffin]

Governor Palin, October 12, 2007 (http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/09/06/1/charlie-rose-green-room-with-sarah-palin): Being governor is a lot like my first jobs, babysitting and waitressing!

So her experience as governor is what qualifies her for the White House, and what qualifies her to be governor is that she was a waitress and a babysitter.

[gdnp]

LOL. You don't like "bimbo" but "redneck" is okay?


I thought about this when I wrote it, but decided to leave it in. I think the difference is that there are very few people who refer to themselves as bimbos with pride, but many who do so with the term redneck.

Gun toting NRA member, commercial salmon fishing, hockey mom, born again christian, flag waving, antiintellectual, snowmobile racing, Ivana Trump admiring falls into a demographic. Throw in a pack of Marlboros, a pickup, Pabst blue ribon, mayonnaise, and a hound dog and you're all set. Redneck? Nascar? Working class? These are people that the Democrats need to woo, and it will be more difficult since Palin is one of their own.

[Pookster]

Pookster, thanks a mil!


You're welcome. :)

[Brainster]

From the Can You Top This? File, Slate encourages readers to write in with their "Dreams about Sarah (http://slate.com/id/2199661)". To help out, they mention some that Slate staffers have already shared:

I rarely remember my dreams, but for the past week, GOP vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin has been haunting me. Night after night, she appears in my dreams, always as a scolding, ominous figure.

When I mentioned my Palin dreams to Slate colleagues, they volunteered their own. One Obama-supporting colleague dreamed she had urged her young son to kill Palin with a string bean. Another dreamed she was at a fashion show and Palin served her crème fraîche on little scooped corn chips. A third says, "In the Sarah Palin dream I keep having, she has superhuman powers but is not really a person at all. In fact, she is more like the weather with glasses and an up-do, pushing clouds around and pitching lightning bolts."
(Bolding added for emphasis)

Note that this is not some idiotic Kos Diary from a schnook nobody's ever heard of; it's from Slate, a reasonably respected if reliably liberal online news magazine, owned by the Washington Post. If it's intended as parody, it's way too arch.

[leftysergeant]

Huh? What? Was there a typo in your post, Pookster? Was McSame's name omitted from the list of co-sponsors by mistake?

I mean, come on now. A liberal female senator like Maria Cantwell signed on as a co-sponsor, but the old wounded warrior McCain didn't? Come on, say it aint so.

[dudalb]

Lefty thinks the Revolution is right around the corner, apparently.