US armed forces lack of intelligence in Iraq

[a_unique_person]

Just as well the Iraq war didn't start last week, Powell was showing pictures of the
wrong village (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/02/17/1045330538533.html) to the UN.



Colin Powell pinpointed an al-Qaeda camp. He was dreadfully wrong. C.J. Chivers reports from Khurmal, Iraq.


Mullah Marwan Ismail Hussein, his beard grey and long and his eyes green and tired, sat in a courtyard outside Ibn Taymiyya mosque and shared a sentiment now common in Khurmal.

You would think, he said, that "a great politician like Colin Powell should have looked at a map".

The mullah might have spoken for much of this village on Iraq's mountainous border with Iran. This is a place filled with worry because of one careless word.

In an address to the UN Security Council on February 5, Secretary of State Colin Powell displayed a satellite photograph of what he described as a poison factory and terrorist camp that has received support from the Iraqi Government and al-Qaeda's terrorist network.

The photograph, offered as a reason to consider risking war to topple Saddam Hussein, carried a caption that bore this village's name, Khurmal.

The camp in question, however, is in Sarget, a 35-minute drive away and on the other side of a military front, in territory occupied by Ansar al-Islam, a militant Islamic group that the United States says is an affiliate of al-Qaeda.



of course, they said they knew all along it was the wrong village.

[corplinx]

It happens.

[Advocate]

Is anyone really saying this village doesn't exist? Isn't just a case of mislabelling? Its not like the wrong village was bombed. It was a simple mistake that does not change his message in the least.

[rikzilla]

1 pound ground beef
1 small onion, diced (1 cup)
1 large carrot, julienned (1 cup)
3 stalks celery, chopped (1 cup)
2 cloves garlic, minced
2 14.5-ounce cans diced tomatoes
1 15-ounce can red kidney beans (with liquid)
1 15-ounce can great northern beans (with liquid)
1 15-ounce can tomato sauce
1 12-ounce can V-8 juice
1 tablespoon white vinegar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon oregano
1 teaspoon basil
1/2 teaspoon pepper
1/2 teaspoon thyme
1/2 pound (1/2 pkg.) ditali pasta

1. Brown the ground beef in a large saucepan or pot over medium heat. Drain off most of the fat.
2. Add onion, carrot, celery and garlic and sauté for 10 minutes.
3. Add remaining ingredients, except pasta, and simmer for 1 hour.
4. About 50 minutes into simmer time, cook the pasta in 1 1/2 to 2 quarts of boiling water over high heat. Cook for 10 minutes or just until pasta is al dente, or slightly tough. Drain.
5. Add the pasta to the large pot of soup. Simmer for 5-10 minutes and serve.
Serves 8.

[Reginald]

Minnestroni??? (sorry bout the spelling)

[a_unique_person]

The intelligence people were preparing a presentation to the UN on why the war against Iraq was justified. You would think it would be important to get some basic facts right.

These people are now terrified of dying. Maybe you don't give a damm. That says a lot about you.

[Reginald]

AUP

The gentleman from the village puts his point, a point well made.

Indeed he is far less hysterical than you, re. "Terrified".

[Jon_in_london]

Its hardly inspiring is it? As has been said in other posts- Powells PowerPoint Presentation was the pro-warries big chance to present an absolutely and unequivocally watertight case for war.

Instead we got some grainy satelite pics of the wrong village and a plagirised research paper authored by a postgrad student 10 years ago!

And you wonder why everyone isnt convinced of the need for military action?!?!?!

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Reginald
AUP

The gentleman from the village puts his point, a point well made.

Indeed he is far less hysterical than you, re. "Terrified".



But to villagers in Khurmal, the labelling was frightening, and their fear is an indicator of the United States' low credibility when it comes to distinguishing military and civilian targets.

Khurmal, population about 7500, was once a part of a savage front in the Iran-Iraq war. Its environs are polluted with trenches and hidden mines. The village was razed by Saddam in the late 1980s.

Recently rebuilt, it is little more than a cinderblock shantytown, an impoverished municipality on a front between the Kurdish fighters and Ansar. It is controlled by a comparatively moderate Muslim party, Komala Islami Kurdistan, which has resisted Ansar's jihad politics but distrusts the US.

Many villagers clustered into homes with televisions to watch Mr Powell's UN presentation, and said they were astonished to see their village named as the nexus between Osama bin Laden and Saddam.

Long a luckless place, Khurmal now fully expects to be struck by American bombs. "We have seen this kind of mistake in Afghanistan, when the Americans bombarded the wrong villages," Komala leader Sheik Ali Bapir said. "The people of Khurmal are very helpless and very poor. Please do not make any mistake."

[Ian Osborne]

Can anyone remember what percentage of allied casualties in the last Gulf War were caused by the Americans? I remember reading it was very high, but I can't remember the figures or vouch for their authenticity.

[Reginald]

Frightening...yep
Fear.....Yep

Terrified......cant quite see that but my glasses are in the car.

The last part you highlight is a perfectly reasonable plea, and the man is totally justified in making it.

[LillyThePink]

"friendly fire"? Like the Canadians who got killed in Afghanistan last year by some American pilots on Speed... hmmmm http://www.af.mil/news/Jan2003/11003627.shtml

*lol*

Try:

http://members.aol.com/amerwar/ff/ffg.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2630519.stm
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/stats.htm (you need to scroll a bit)


But the Gulf War spawned in each branch of the U.S. military a serious round of soul-searching about mistakes that had cost lives - its own and those of Iraqi non-combatants. Friendly fire claimed 24 percent of all Americans killed in action, and more British troops fell to U.S. weapons than to Iraqi ones. Entire airwings became dependent on amphetamines, the “go pills” doled out to keep pilots alert on long missions.

From: http://www.msnbc.com/news/852294.asp?cp1=1#BODY

[Jon_in_london]

9 British soldiers from the Royal Regiment Fusiliers are KIA by an American A-10A on 27Feb91, the last day of the war. Mutually understood recognition symbols were on the IFV's that were being used by the Fusiliers.

Americans blamed the Air Traffic Controller.
British Blamed the pilots.

[LillyThePink]

What I don't understand is why the USAF keeps pumping their pilots full of speed before letting them go out with live bombs on board. Can you say "impaired judgement"??

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
Can you say "impaired judgement"??

Can you say buuuuunnnngggholio!!! Haaarrrrrrrrrrggg Fiyaaahhhh Fiiyaaahhh gnnnnnnn!!! (too much speed :rolleyes: )

[LillyThePink]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Can you say buuuuunnnngggholio!!! Haaarrrrrrrrrrggg Fiyaaahhhh Fiiyaaahhh gnnnnnnn!!! (too much speed :rolleyes: )

I thought bungholio was from too much chocolate? ;)

[Jon_in_london]

asphinctersayswhat?

[LillyThePink]

*lol*

I SAID BUMMERS ARE DEAF

I don't get it.

Neither do I.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
What I don't understand is why the USAF keeps pumping their pilots full of speed before letting them go out with live bombs on board. Can you say "impaired judgement"??
Gives new meaning to the phrase "Winning the war on drugs".

(Sorry, I can't claim credit for that...)

[BillyTK]

"lack of intelligence"? Bwa ha ha ha ha!

Sorry, but I love bad puns.

So anyway, next time USAF pilots are flying over head, all Iraq needs to do is play happy hardcore through really big speakers at 'em.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by LillyThePink
What I don't understand is why the USAF keeps pumping their pilots full of speed before letting them go out with live bombs on board. Can you say "impaired judgement"??
There was a whole thread on this with people vigorously defending the hopping up of pilots, even though the manufacturer of the drugs warned against it.