Artificial sweeteners - any correlation with diabetes?

[theMark]

Just today, I've had a little debate with a friend of mine who is of the opinion that artificial sweeteners can cause (or at least encourage (if that's the right word) ) diabetes, because "it tastes sweet, and then the body prepares for sugar that doesn't come, and that's got to be bad".

Uhm. Riiight. Well, maybe.

Except for the fact that various organisations that actually DO know a thing or two about it (like, the International Journal of Diabetes in developing countries) do RECOMMEND those artificial sweeteners to help in a dietary regime.

Now, "teh Google" isn't particularly strong in me, so all I found was how for a few decades, some sweeteners were linked to cancer, until that evidence sort of evaporated because some people decided to take a closer look at the old tests and found that the sweetener-cancer mechanism really only applied to rats. So it seems most if not all of those pseudo-sugars are OK for non-excessive use.

It's just that I didn't find anything clearly saying "sweeteners do (as far as we know today) NOT cause diabetes." (Alright, proving a negative and stuff, I know...)

The threads I've found at JREF were more concerned about headaches and other known side effects, but not the blood sugar thing...

Anyone around who has some peer-reviewed comments on the sweetener-diabetes thing? I can't believe I'd be the first one to bring this up on the web...

Thanks in advance from
theMark

[fls]

There have been observational studies that show an association between diet soft drinks and increased incidence of diabetes (and other related conditions.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/116/5/480

However, the increased use of diet drinks may be in response to weight gain or the development of diabetes (it is what we recommend, after all), so it would be unreasonable to claim that diet soft drinks are responsible. Experimental studies looking at the role of soft drinks show that if you substitute sugar-sweetened soft drinks with diet and other low-calorie drinks, you lose weight, which contradicts the idea that sugar substitutes cause weight gain.

Linda

[Professor Yaffle]

The thing about artificial sweeteners causing an increase in appetite or affecting how the body naturally assesses intake of calories, is something I have never been sure about how woo it is. I have read some stuff about it from non-wooish sources, but I'm not sure what the state of the evidence is.

Here are some stories thaty talk about some of the research:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/06/040630081825.htm

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=87080

http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/JAMA-questions-sense-of-sweeteners-for-weight-loss

[Old Bob]

I believe A.S. cause all sorts of health problems from Parkinson's to over weight, they are a neurotoxin. Money making scam that turns to formaldehyde in our bodies. When will we realize that the e-lite don't care what damage they do to us goyim,they are at war with us.

[Smackety]

I believe A.S. cause all sorts of health problems from Parkinson's to over weight, they are a neurotoxin. Money making scam that turns to formaldehyde in our bodies. When will we realize that the e-lite don't care what damage they do to us goyim,they are at war with us.

Bob, the OP is asking a serious question, you could have some respect.

[MetalSeagull]

I imagine that there is a correlation between artificial sweeteners and diabetes, simply due to avoiding sugars either because you know you have diabetes or are overweight.

[tesscaline]

I would ask: Which artificial sweeteners are you asking about? Each AS has a different chemical makeup, and therefore affects the body in different ways. If the question is just about AS in general, then I would have to agree with those here who have already said that the correlation is probably just that people who already have diabetes, or who already have the precursors to diabetes, are the most prevalent AS users.

To the person who said that AS are neurotoxins: Even if we assume you are correct, just how much of the compound would one have to ingest per day to see any sort of effect? One pound? Five pounds? One hundred? A thousand? And if you're ingesting that much AS a day, you probably have bigger problems than just the effects of the AS...

[BenBurch]

The theory here is that when your body detects a sweet taste without following infusion of sugars, that the regulation mechanism for food intake is interrupted, causing more intake. Not so much a correlation with diabetes but with obesity and of course obesity correlates with type-2 diabetes.

[tesscaline]

The theory here is that when your body detects a sweet taste without following infusion of sugars, that the regulation mechanism for food intake is interrupted, causing more intake. Not so much a correlation with diabetes but with obesity and of course obesity correlates with type-2 diabetes.And, Splenda is actually sugar, just modified. Unlike other artificial sweeteners. So my question still stands. Which artificial sweeteners are being referred to.

As purely anecdotal support for my opinions that AS has nothing to do with weight: If I put artificial sweetener in my iced tea before dinner, I don't eat any more or less food (sweet or otherwise) than I do if I use real sugar. Nor does anyone else I know. The only people I know that eat excessively after using an artificial sweetener are the people who eat excessively whether they use that artificial sweetener or not. These are, by the way, the same people who drink a soda for lunch (diet of course) instead of eating real food (in the effort to "lose weight"), and then stop at McDonald's on the way home from work and get another diet soda alongside their super-sized double quarter pounder with cheese meal.

I have no research studies to back up my suppositions. Just normal observation of human behavior. Given that: I put forth that the correlation between diabetes and AS is more that there is a level of woo-ish thought amongst the nutritionally uneducated (i.e. a very large portion of society) that leads them to believe that because they are cutting back on calories from sugar, it is okay then to increase the calories they get from fatty deep fried foods laden in transfats, which causes obesity, which leads to diabetes.

I blame this in part on woo-ish diets which give people the impression that sugar is evil, and all you have to do is eliminate that one ingredient from your food, and then you can eat/drink anything you want in any amount and be healthier and prettier than you were before.

Example: How many times have you seen the following in a restaurant -- "Oh, I'll get the 16oz steak. It's okay. I'll just skip dessert"

[fuelair]

There have been observational studies that show an association between diet soft drinks and increased incidence of diabetes (and other related conditions.

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/116/5/480

However, the increased use of diet drinks may be in response to weight gain or the development of diabetes (it is what we recommend, after all), so it would be unreasonable to claim that diet soft drinks are responsible. Experimental studies looking at the role of soft drinks show that if you substitute sugar-sweetened soft drinks with diet and other low-calorie drinks, you lose weight, which contradicts the idea that sugar substitutes cause weight gain.

LindaOne of the newer studies (I'll look for it again when I have time) has supposedly shown the the body recognizes the diet sweetners are not glucose/sucrose and makes up by signalling you to eat/drink something containing them or similar.

[Old Bob]

Splenda sweetener as I understand is sugar with the oxygen molecule swapped for a chlorine one, I use it to kill ants. the aspartamates are neurotoxin and if you lot can't be civil I go home. Just because certain people call me idiot, does that make me one? I may not be smart on the key board or expressing my self but I'm rich in many ways.

[soylent]

Splenda sweetener as I understand is sugar with the oxygen molecule swapped for a chlorine one, I use it to kill ants.

I use soapy water. That must mean soap is lethal, right?

the aspartamates are neurotoxin and if you lot can't be civil I go home.

So is caffeine, but unlike aspartame it actually manages to cross the blood-brain barrier intact instead of being metabolized.

That caffiene is a neurotoxin doesn't mean it's unsafe or possibly even beneficial in reasonable quantities(caffeine intake is correlated with reduced incidence of parkinsons and reduced risk of cardiovascular disease in people aged >65 and not severely hypertensive).

Just because certain people call me idiot, does that make me one? I may not be smart on the key board or expressing my self but I'm rich in many ways.

Are you or are you not being sarcastic?

[fls]

One of the newer studies (I'll look for it again when I have time) has supposedly shown the the body recognizes the diet sweetners are not glucose/sucrose and makes up by signalling you to eat/drink something containing them or similar.

You were referring to the rat studies that Professor Yaffle mentioned earlier?

I was referring to experimental studies in humans (sorry I didn't make that clear), such as this one:

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/76/4/721

Linda

[Old Bob]

The actor Michael Fox suffers Parkin's disease and he has blamed diet COLA, if that is the reason 2 or 3 drinks a day over some years is all you need for damage. The troops coming home from the middle east sick, one line of thought is diet drinks sitting on pallets in the heat which changers the aspartate to formaldehyde. Is that behind the "Gulf War Syndrome" ? I have been also told that the change happens below body temperature.

[Mongrel]

The actor Michael Fox suffers Parkin's disease and he has blamed diet COLA,

Got a proper link?

All I could find was lots of anti aspartame sites linking his Parkinsons and the sponsorship of some of his shows by Diet pepsi...

[Old Bob]

Got a proper link?

All I could find was lots of anti aspartame sites linking his Parkinsons and the sponsorship of some of his shows by Diet pepsi...

No, it was old news and I should have said pepsi instead of cola, sorry.

[paximperium]

No, it was old news and I should have said pepsi instead of cola, sorry.

Meaning that you made an unsupported claim and are now back tracking when called to task? Yeah, not surprising.

[Mongrel]

No, it was old news and I should have said pepsi instead of cola, sorry.

If it was 'old news' it's still news, it should be archived somewhere.

Even the anti AS sites had it as;

Michael J Fox (MJF) has Parkinsons
Some of his shows were sponsored by Pepsi and MJF drank diet Pepsi
"AS is a neurotoxin\dangerous"

Therefore

"AS caused MJFs Parkinsons!!111 eleventy!!"



F - try harder and show your workings

[Old Bob]

Some time ago I made the statement that compressed air cars would come on line and are already used in France, howls and yells, rubbish etc etc. Well now its happening in India. Say that M. J. Fox is suffering from diet cola when I should have said diet pepsi, big deal, it's the diet part that poisons. Soylent said "are you being sarcastic"? about what? Why are you all so cranky? Criticize politely if you like but some are just plain bloody rude. I try to enlighten others on bits that I know and not all knowledge is on line.

[Mongrel]

Some time ago I made the statement that compressed air cars would come on line and are already used in France, howls and yells, rubbish etc etc. Well now its happening in India. Say that M. J. Fox is suffering from diet cola when I should have said diet pepsi, big deal, it's the diet part that poisons.

I couldn't care less about what brand of diet fizzy drink it was, I find it irrelevant to the claim, so stop acting the martyr. My main gripe was with the bolded bit;
The actor Michael Fox suffers Parkin's disease and he has blamed diet COLA

If you're research is that shoddy then I have no expectations of useful info from you

[theMark]

Hi all,

thanks a lot for the input. I've looked at the links, and for now it seems that the correlation is in fact not causation.

And a little advice for Old Bob: seeing the widespread "deployment" of AS, the claims about their evil, lethal nature seem to be maybe a tad overstated, as people are actually living longer today than at any other point in history. If your comments weren't made purely for satirical purposes and you're actually serious about it, you might want to reconsider your sources and/or fact snippets. Thanks anyway, if only for bringing out some of the more rational responders.

[Eos of the Eons]

Articial sweeteners aren't so "artificial".

We need to examine a few facts here. Aspartame is not the only substance that breaks down into methanol and then into formaldehyde, and finally into water & carbon dioxide. It is also not the only way you get amino acids (aspartic acid, phenylalanine) in your body.

Aspartame breaks down into methanol and amino acids. Methanol is broken down to formaldehyde. Formaldehyde is then always turned to formic acid. The formic acid is then always turned into water and carbon dioxide. The key ingredient here is actually something that breaks down into methanol, and remember that the final product is actually water and carbon dioxide. Even breathing leaves you with water and carbon dioxide. Remember, the process your body goes through is methanol-formaldehyde-formic acid-water & carbon dioxide.

What else goes through this process in your body? Juice. Fruit. Vegetables. Wine. A serving of tomato juice the same sizes as a can of diet cola will produce about five times the methanol (which is what converts into formaldehyde) in your body as the aspartame in the diet cola. Fruits, fruit juices, vegetables, wine and beer will also produced methanol when digested. The chemical plant in your body can handle it, even in excess.

Studies have tested how aspartame is converted into methanol. One study showed that consumption of 2000 milligrams of aspartame - that's 10 cans of diet soda - had no effect on the amount of methanol present in the bloodstream. You can drink 10 cans of diet soda at once and not get poisoned. The normal levels of methanol in the bloodstream are not affected, and you just keep on processing it all into carbon dioxide and water (which is then eliminated from the body).

The link contains a lot more information, and I recommend everyone read it. Please forward this email on to help alieve the anti-aspartame hysteria. http://tafkac.org/ulz/nutrasweet.html

What is aspartame? It's made up of essential and non-essential amino acids (and methanol) that also occurs naturally in the body. Any time you eat any kind of protein (protein is made up of amino acids) you will get these amino acids So, whether or not you eat "synthetic" aspartame, your body always has these ingredients inside. It's normal. We all need protein to function. This is how aspartame was discovered. A scientist found that these amino acid combinations were sweet. So protein will get you amino acids (aspartic acid, phenylalanine), and fruits and vegetables will get you methanol. No matter what, unless you starve yourself of all essential nutrients, you will get these substances in your body whenever you eat something.
http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/cms/biochem/walters/sweet/aspartame.html

Other myths about aspartame: http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/antpoison.asp (http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/antpoison.asp)

Oh, and please don't be misled by all the people that can sell you stuff to save you from aspartame/formaldehyde poisoning. If you need to be saved from aspartame/formaldehyde poisoning (ingestion of something that the body converts into carbon dioxide and water), then you need to be saved from breathing too. Also, rembember that we humans have been eating vegetables and fruits since our inception, and have dealt with the methanol/formaldehyde conversions in our bodies since our inception. We are equipped to deal with it every day of our lives.


This is why aspartame was put to the test and then permitted to be used as a sweetener, because good studies show it is safe, and there was every reason in the world it was safe in the first place. There is no reason to call it poison, unless you also want to call other regular everyday food poison too. None of it is poisonous as our bodies are equipped to break down, use, handle, and eliminate every bit of it safely, just like it has ever since humans and other animals have eaten fruits, vegetables, and proteins all of their lives.

Now. Should we go onto dihydrogen monoxide? That chemical can get a bad rap too, but it does actually kill people every day...

[BenBurch]

Eos, while true, this does not address the point whether artificial sweeteners play a role in diabetes. Its clear they play no primary role, but if they effect appetite regulation and therefore obesity, there may be a connection. If.

[Lensman]

I've been using AS (saccharine, 2 tablets in every cup & about 2 tablespoonsful of aspartame based sweetener sprinkled on my corn flakes every morning) in my tea for about 35 years & because diabetes runs in my family, I've been tested for diabetes regularly - negative every time and, while I might not be :rolleyes: the smartest or steadiest bloke around, I don't suffer from Parkinsons or Alzheimers - I keep my brain fairly active.

[shadron]

The pathway that "tastes" sugar is strictly neural - the taste buds on the tongue that detect sweet are stimulated and they send nerve impulses to the sensory area of the brain. I am pretty sure that he detection that triggers insulin excretion is not chemical rather than neural; the islets have no neural connections that I know of. Since I'm not an expert in physiology I cannot rule out an interaction between taste and insulin production, but I think it is far-fetched. Much more cogent, as Ben Burch points out, is the effect of AS on obesity, which definitely does have an effect on insulin production, but inasmuch as use of ASs rather than sugar will reduce iobesity (all other effects being equal) it would tend to be for the batter rather than for the worse.