OK, so how do thermite demolitions work again?

[CHF]

Yeah I know, there's never officially been a thermite demolition...:rolleyes:....but let's say someone were to try it.

As I understand it, thermite is a gravity driven incendiary that starts cutting/burning/melting through steel the moment it comes into contact with it.

Seems like a really crappy demolition tool to me, but then I'm no expert.

So how would one would take down a skyscraper with thermite if they decided for some reason to go that route instead of explosives?

Wouldn't you actually need someone to physically place the thermite on the desired target in order for the reaction to take place? Or could you plant thermite and have it start reacting later via remote control?

And wouldn't thermite be seriously compromised by, say, a jet impact or a raging fire?

Hey, I'm just asking questions.

[DC]

Yeah I know, there's never officially been a thermite demolition...:rolleyes:....but let's say someone were to try it.

As I understand it, thermite is a gravity driven incendiary that starts cutting/burning/melting through steel the moment it comes into contact with it.

Seems like a really crappy demolition tool to me, but then I'm no expert.

So how would one would take down a skyscraper with thermite if they decided for some reason to go that route instead of explosives?

Wouldn't you actually need someone to physically place the thermite on the desired target in order for the reaction to take place? Or could you plant thermite and have it start reacting later via remote control?

And wouldn't thermite be seriously compromised by, say, a jet impact or a raging fire?

Hey, I'm just asking questions.

there is a patent, it describes another usage, not the thermite reacting itself is in contact with the steel that has to be cut.
the hot gas that is created during the thermite reaction are directed to the steel surface that is to be cut.
its actually not the thermite that is cuting it, it is the gas.

the fires should not start the thermite reaction.

[CHF]

there is a patent, it describes another usage, not the thermite reacting itself is in contact with the steel that has to be cut.
the hot gas that is created during the thermite reaction are directed to the steel surface that is to be cut.
its actually not the thermite that is cuting it, it is the gas.

the fires should not start the thermite reaction.

Half of that didn't even make sense!

OK, so how would this device work in taking down a building?

Walk me through it.... Where's it placed? How is it activated?

[beachnut]

Yeah I know, there's never officially been a thermite demolition...:rolleyes:....but let's say someone were to try it.

As I understand it, thermite is a gravity driven incendiary that starts cutting/burning/melting through steel the moment it comes into contact with it.

Seems like a really crappy demolition tool to me, but then I'm no expert.

So how would one would take down a skyscraper with thermite if they decided for some reason to go that route instead of explosives?

Wouldn't you actually need someone to physically place the thermite on the desired target in order for the reaction to take place? Or could you plant thermite and have it start reacting later via remote control?

And wouldn't thermite be seriously compromised by, say, a jet impact or a raging fire?

Hey, I'm just asking questions.
The aircraft impacts would destroy the thermite, sending the powder all over the place. Fires would destroy the fuses and all the other junk and the thermite would not go off.

Thermite is the dumbest idea, started by a failed fusion physicist. He posted a crazy idea and dummies on the internet eat it up like candy. How can anyone be dumb enough to believe an idiot idea of thermite being used to bring down the WTC complex. I know Jones made it up 4 years after 9/11. Now at 7 years only people lacking knowledge on a broad range of topics fall for the fantasy idea made up by Jones.

[DC]

Half of that didn't even make sense!

OK, so how would this device work in taking down a building?

Walk me through it.... Where's it placed? How is it activated?

this device would have to placed on the steel beam to cut, direct on the steel surface.
you can activate it by remote control. afaik there are remotecontrolled magnesium ignitors.

[DC]

The aircraft impacts would destroy the thermite, sending the powder all over the place. Fires would destroy the fuses and all the other junk and the thermite would not go off.

Thermite is the dumbest idea, started by a failed fusion physicist. He posted a crazy idea and dummies on the internet eat it up like candy. How can anyone be dumb enough to believe an idiot idea of thermite being used to bring down the WTC complex. I know Jones made it up 4 years after 9/11. Now at 7 years only people lacking knowledge on a broad range of topics fall for the fantasy idea made up by Jones.

when you are done with your ranting, you can maybe talk about the technical side of the issue.

[CHF]

this device would have to placed on the steel beam to cut, direct on the steel surface.
you can activate it by remote control. afaik there are remotecontrolled magnesium ignitors.

Uh huh....

So how would it cut horizontally?

And let's say a plane slammed into this thermite CD set-up. Would that affect things at all?

[beachnut]

Yeah I know, there's never officially been a thermite demolition...:rolleyes:....but let's say someone were to try it.

As I understand it, thermite is a gravity driven incendiary that starts cutting/burning/melting through steel the moment it comes into contact with it.

...
The truth movement has ever laid out the fusing, to execution. The truth movement does not have the expertise or knowledge to lay out a coherent plan. Thermite is a fantasy, Jones made it up.

No one can do it, they all lack the skills to make a plan about thermite. They are dumb enough on the topics needed to understand thermite, and as such they believe a lie made Jones! Not a single shred of evidence for thermite, and the truth movement is too challenged to lay out a plan.

I don't think anyone in the truth movement has the knowledge to answer your OP.

[DC]

Uh huh....

So how would it cut horizontally?

And let's say a plane slammed into this thermite CD set-up. Would that affect things at all?

the Patent describes a noozle or so, a opening on one side of the device, where the gas is coming out, this opening has to be directed towards the surface to cut.

a plane hit willl for sure rip the device from its place and destroy the device. in case they are placed at a location where a plane hits.

[CHF]

I don't think anyone in the truth movement has the knowledge to answer your OP.

Yeah I know but it's still fun to see them pretend. :D

[Grizzly Bear]

when you are done with your ranting, you can maybe talk about the technical side of the issue.

The application would be a rather confusing issue, regardless, given where the collapse initiated and that it was where the planes slammed through the structure I would put my money that any attempt to thermite the hell out of the towers would have been... how should I say... unsuccessful... given that the impact of the planes alone would have inhibited any such application of remote activation. And this graciously assumes that the application and activation methods you set forth are feasible for such a scheme

[defaultdotxbe]

there is a patent, it describes another usage, not the thermite reacting itself is in contact with the steel that has to be cut.
the hot gas that is created during the thermite reaction are directed to the steel surface that is to be cut.
its actually not the thermite that is cuting it, it is the gas.
the patent was filed in 2006, just a few years too late for 9/11, also the only working model ive seen was used to cut a 1in peice of rebar, i havent seen anything that can cut a beam

the fires should not start the thermite reaction.
correct, but could the casing and mounting of the device survive the fires?

this device would have to placed on the steel beam to cut, direct on the steel surface.
you can activate it by remote control. afaik there are remotecontrolled magnesium ignitors.
see above, can your remote controlled ignitor survive the fires?

[DC]

The truth movement has ever laid out the fusing, to execution. The truth movement does not have the expertise or knowledge to lay out a coherent plan. Thermite is a fantasy, Jones made it up.

No one can do it, they all lack the skills to make a plan about thermite. They are dumb enough on the topics needed to understand thermite, and as such they believe a lie made Jones! Not a single shred of evidence for thermite, and the truth movement is too challenged to lay out a plan.

I don't think anyone in the truth movement has the knowledge to answer your OP.

thats why you should stop ranting and use your super duper engineering skills to debunk the whol thingy.

your rants are not convincing at all. they are childish and laughable, we all know by now that the death TM failed in all aspects. we also know noone in the TM is an expert on anything and so on. we can read that in every single of your posts.

[beachnut]

And wouldn't thermite be seriously compromised by, say, a jet impact or a raging fire?

Too stupid to lay it out!

The impact and fires would render all the device DEAD.

The dumbest ideas are the radio control ones. They can't specify the device used, the frequency or any real details. They just post the stupid idea and run!

If they can find the perfect frequency the firemen and police will have radios that work in buildings. LOL

By remote control! They offer no details, just real stupid ideas!

The truth movement is not prepared to go into details. Even the guy who made up thermite has no clue! Clueless truth movement with stupid ideas.

No a single detailed plan by anyone. Zero! This is because it is a fantasy! No one has, no one can.

What radio freq would they use? Cell phones? lol

1 truther came up with the amount to melt some steel, but he never came up with a device. His rant was flawed. He never had a plan. He should have gone to Kerry.

Some idiot ideas include stupid rant about remote control with no wires but don't detail the receivers and transmitters used. And still no complete plan. I would say it takes about 10 pages just to outline the plan and include some details.

As an engineer it was so easy to see Jones made up thermite. I was not surprised when he was fired for making up a big lie.

Any layperson can easily see Jones made up thermite, FOUR years after 9/11. And he has not made progress in 3 years. I was not surprised when he was fired for making up a big lie.

Any rational person can see Jones made it up and has no evidence. But gee, it would be neat if some fact less truther could post the SIOP for thermite used at the WTC.

[CHF]

the Patent describes a noozle or so, a opening on one side of the device, where the gas is coming out, this opening has to be directed towards the surface to cut.

Could you link me to this thermite demolition Patent you speak of?

a plane hit willl for sure rip the device from its place and destroy the device. in case they are placed at a location where a plane hits.

So would it be safe to say then that a collapse which starts from the very location where the plane hit pretty much rules out thermite?

[DC]

ok bye bye kids :)
was fun for you

[defaultdotxbe]

a plane hit willl for sure rip the device from its place and destroy the device. in case they are placed at a location where a plane hits.
since the collapse started where the plane hit we may have a problem here

[beachnut]

Could you link me to this thermite demolition Patent you speak of?



So would it be safe to say then that a collapse which starts from the very location where the plane hit pretty much rules out thermite?
The truth movement is not prepared to present a plan. Jones just made it up without thinking about it. Why have a viable plan?

There are cutting device but the movement does not present a working copy that cuts WTC columns. A full up model, or even a plan with diagrams. Sad.

The idiot ideas never cover the fact the thermite has to be in contact with the steel column. Never telling us how they remove 3 inches of gypsum board to get next to the columns.

They never discuss how thermite remains were not found during clean up.

Jones lies and says clean up cuts were proof of thermite. His lies do not phase truth movement followers, they let there minds drift to believe lies and fantasy. There goes skeptical thought, all they do is repeat failed ideas. Skeptical thinkers would question Jones work and point out he lies about the cuts made after 9/11.

Thermite is easy when you know Jones made it up. September 2005, Jones made up thermite without thinking. September 2008, truthers still mention thermite without thinking; just like Jones.

[GlennB]

Could you link me to this thermite demolition Patent you speak of?

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/sap-guy/thermitecutter.jpg




Here's a sample diagram from the patent. Note the device is very bulky for the volume of thermite it contains, and that doesn't even include any attachment mechanism. Apart from the issue of surviving the crash and fires a lot of drywalling and fireproofing would have to be removed to snuggle these up to the steel, and the drywalling was itself very bulky and tight to the steel. For example :



http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/sap-guy/partitionwallsystem.jpg



So these "devices" would necessarily be left sticking out all over the place, in offices, stairways, restrooms, corridors and so on. And this is without even considering the problem of scale, which is to say a device that can cut 1" of rebar while its casing survives cannot necessarily survive while cutting a 4" thickness of box column.

All in all, it's piffle.

[ref]

The guys at JONES (http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200701/Answers-to-Frequently-Asked-Questions-Regarding-Thermite-by-Robert-Moore.pdf) have also been drooling over this patent from February 2001, so the patent existed before 9/11: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6183569/description.html

Of course, they totally ignore this sentence:

Preferably, the cutting apparatus of the present invention may be employed, for example, to cut steel bars of up to one inch in diameter. It is believed that the diameter of a bar which can be successfully cut by the present invention is proportional to the diameter of the thermite charge employed in the cutting apparatus of the present invention.

[orphia nay]

You'd think that "36%" of the population could raise enough money for Jones to actually demonstrate how this works and answer all the questions in the OP. :rolleyes:

[leftysergeant]

I do not think that was the deevice DC had in mind. That would be a grenade-like thing that the militart uses. You throw it down a gun tube or set it on an engine block to destroy equipment, either to neutralize captured enemy equipment that you haven';t time to guard or to render abandoned equipment useless.

The illustrated device seems rather small to demolish a skyscraper. I am still trying to figure out what sort of initiator linkage your would use.

From the techincal drawings of the structure provided, I do not see how it could be placed in direct contact with the steel.

Most thermite charges I have ever made have had chemical initiators, either liquids applied directly to an incendiary mixture which produces a hypergalic reaction or by an initiation train similar to that of a tear gas or smoke grenade. In either case, you need a mechanical device of some sort to initiate the reaction.

Do you see how complicated this is getting?

Now, in the towers, how would you use them to initiate collapse or to keep it in progress?

Since the cores stood so long, it is clear that nothing done to the cores had any role in the collapse after initiation. To have initiated collapse, the thermite would have to have been attached to the columns only on the floors where collapse began. Now we have the problem of how any initiation train would survive the fires.

To use it to keep the collapse going, it would have to have been placed on the perimeter columns. Now we have to explain how they could have been cut with thermite in such a way that, after cutting through the steel, the thermite would not have shot showers of sparks, white smoke and incandescent molten steel in all directions out of the building. We clerarly do not see this occuring anywhere.

Thus, we are left with no reasonable way that it could be used in an occupied building without detection.

In an unoccupied building, I would simply strip all the sheet rock, attach cast charges running as much as five pounds each, to the uprights on all floors and set them to go off in sequence and hope that the fl;lors do not fall faster than planned.

How I would initiate them, I have no idea.

I am SO not going to go into a building and drop reagent on the igniter hole with a medicine dropper.

[Seymour Butz]

So these "devices" would necessarily be left sticking out all over the place, in offices, stairways, restrooms, corridors and so on. And this is without even considering the problem of scale, which is to say a device that can cut 1" of rebar while its casing survives cannot necessarily survive while cutting a 4" thickness of box column.

All in all, it's piffle.

They'd have to be on all 4 sides of the columns too, due to the size of them and the distance away that the "other" side of the column would be.

Another theory I've heard is using thermate in the traditional :rolleyes: vertically down manner, cutting the stabilizing floor beams on several floors. This would permit buckling of the columns. But it's equally insane cuz of all the material that would need to be removed, and them sticking out all over the place.

And I'm not so sure that THEY wouldn't need to be on more than just 1 side too.

Piffle.... I like that word.

[JamesB]

Well given that they couldn't even figure out how to take down a metal sign with 60lbs of thermite for their "truthburn" fiasco, I don't think you will be hearing any coherent theories anytime soon.

[ktesibios]

I think that there would be another real problem with using thermite for the sort of building demolitions the commercial demolition industry does- timing.

Getting a building to collapse the way you want it to depends, among other things, on breaking the structural members in the right sequence at the right times. Shaped charges do their work in milliseconds, so that cutting column "A" a specified time before you cut column "B" is a matter of delaying the detonation of charge "B" with respect to that of charge "A". This can be done easily enough that a demolition engineer can plan out how and when all the charges will detonate with a high degree of confidence.

With thermite, you ignite the incendiary material and then wait until it has melted enough steel that the column gives way. While it's probably possible to calculate how long that should take for a column of given dimensions under a given load, what are the tolerances involved?

It's also common to use a shaped charge to cut a column and a "kicker" charge detonated a short time afterward to displace the cut ends and prevent them from jamming together and continuing to support the compressive load. If the cutting were done with thermite, the heat might mess up the kicker charge.

Trying to burn through columns instead of cutting them with shaped charges just seems like a rather sloppy way of accomplishing something which is normally done with a lot of precision.

[CHF]

Well given that they couldn't even figure out how to take down a metal sign with 60lbs of thermite for their "truthburn" fiasco, I don't think you will be hearing any coherent theories anytime soon.

Oh that's right! I'd forgotten all about Truthburn...

And didn't that 60lbs of thermite produce a molten slag that cooled off in like 10-20 minutes?

Something to think with regards to all that "molten steel" lasting for weeks at GZ...

[beachnut]

Oh that's right! I'd forgotten all about Truthburn...

And didn't that 60lbs of thermite produce a molten slag that cooled off in like 10-20 minutes?

Something to think with regards to all that "molten steel" lasting for weeks at GZ...
Truthers try to use thermite for cutting columns; they failed to bring down a 20 foot wide sign. They had 70 pounds of thermite, but just burned it up, and sent the stuff to Jones! They say Gage came to talk. Gage, the guy who repeats Jones made up theory? How truthy. http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/ (http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/) how much do they pay for bandwidth?

Is the scam to raise money for the thermite cutter charge, 10,000 bucks! Is this 9/11 truth stuff a cottage industry of frauds? Act dumb, ask for money from real dumb people.

Some truthers are doing something, albeit taking money from dolts in 9/11 truth. I have not been taken by 9/11 truth, but I have been a victim of fraud by not paying attention and not using logic and research to connect the dots before I was soaked. Truthers may learn.

Is truthburn to make money! Skim some off the donations for the 10,000 buck cutter charges and you have the likes of "The Producers". This is funny stuff

http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/ (http://911truthburn.blogspot.com/) who paid for the sign, I was tied of reading junk? Is Gage nuts enough to put up thousands of dollars. The prices they quote as they ask for donations seem inflated.

[Quad4_72]

ok bye bye kids :)
was fun for you

Yes I would run away too if I was you. You know, the whole lack of evidence thing.