University thesis on how witches learn intuitively?

[Jonquill]

A news article today descibes how Western Australian taxpayer's money is being wasted by people doing PhDs on silly subjects.

"Ziggy Smith defended her Curtin University thesis about how Wiccan, followers of the Pagan religion Wicca, and witches learn intuitively.

Ms Smith, who has been a practising witch for 30 years, said: “To those outside of academia, I say what the hell do you know? "

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=96627

What do you think?

[Dancing David]

Depends on the metric and controls used. You can write a thesis on about anything. It could be a limited observation style thesis with a small sample set.

That article seems to be a trash can of different ideas, I give it a D- as a paper article.

[jon]

Yep, PhD theses can be on all kinds of things. Nothing wrong with research on 'new age' ideas - these can be really interesting anthropological phenomena. It's quite appropriate that Research Councils fund some research based on its academic merit, even if it has no obvious practical application.

That said, though, I'd argue that public engagement is important. As public engagement goes, "To those outside of academia, I say what the hell do you know?" may be a teensy bit lacking...

[drkitten]

Yep, PhD theses can be on all kinds of things. Nothing wrong with research on 'new age' ideas

Nothing at all -- except, in many cases, the quality of the research. But that's not really anything that the national research councils are in a position to control, since they're usually tied in to the relevant academic communities for evaluation.

I would argue, in fact, that sociologists and anthropologists have a sort of professional obligation to grapple with, to study, and to evaluate the sort of gaudy nonsense that keeps coming out of the newage movement. I just wish they were better at it -- but I feel the same way about postmodern "lit crit," and no one pays attention to me THERE either.


That said, though, I'd argue that public engagement is important.

How the hell are the national research councils supposed to control for THAT? Establish a "we only give grants to people who aren't pricks" rule?

[jon]

Sure - the bit about public engagement was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek. Research councils can give (a little) extra credit to funding applications etc. that include a well thought out element of public engagement, but this may depend to an extent on what is being researched, and I certainly wouldn't want a "we only give grants to people who aren't pricks" rule...

[fuelair]

.

Ms Smith, who has been a practising witch for 30 years, said: “To those outside of academia, I say what the hell do you know? "


What do you think?
she is clearly an expert at defending her thesis on academic grounds.

[quixotecoyote]

Witches. Hmmm. If it's intuitive learning they probably only get to pick a few spells each level, but have more flexible allocation and frequency.

[NobbyNobbs]

How is it taxpayers' money being wasted? Don't folks in Australia pay to go to college?

[BenBurch]

Hmmm... You know research with wholly negative results can be a thesis and is sometimes just as valuable as getting what you set out to find.

[drkitten]

How is it taxpayers' money being wasted? Don't folks in Australia pay to go to college?

Generally not. Most countries other than the US offer substantial (public) support to all post-secondary students. The US is almost the only country in the world that expects students to shoulder the entire costs of their college.

[CaptainManacles]

Generally not. Most countries other than the US offer substantial (public) support to all post-secondary students. The US is almost the only country in the world that expects students to shoulder the entire costs of their college.

Yes, because the US doesn't have public colleges..... Have you ever been to the US?

[Giraffe107]

How is it taxpayers' money being wasted? Don't folks in Australia pay to go to college?

For undergraduate studies you get a low-interest loan called HECS/HELP. Postgraduate studies are usually supported by the university although there are exceptions.

A woman at my university did her PhD on The Bill, the UK cop show.

[Lothian]

A woman at my university did her PhD on The Bill, the UK cop show.Cool, did she manange to find any unemployed actors that hadn't been in it at least once?

[Mashuna]

Generally not. Most countries other than the US offer substantial (public) support to all post-secondary students. The US is almost the only country in the world that expects students to shoulder the entire costs of their college.

Yes, because the US doesn't have public colleges..... Have you ever been to the US?

I think the key work in DrK's sentence there is all. You get public support if you go to Oxford, Cambridge, or any other tertiary establishment. Not just if you go to a local public college.

[drkitten]

Yes, because the US doesn't have public colleges..... Have you ever been to the US?

Taught there, in a public college, for the better part of a decade, yes.

I don't think you understand how public colleges are funded in the States.

[NobbyNobbs]

For undergraduate studies you get a low-interest loan called HECS/HELP. Postgraduate studies are usually supported by the university although there are exceptions.

A woman at my university did her PhD on The Bill, the UK cop show.

Ok, but if the university is footing the bill, they are doing it with money raised through the tuition of other students. It's still not taxpayers' money.

[pgwenthold]

Taught there, in a public college, for the better part of a decade, yes.

I don't think you understand how public colleges are funded in the States.


I think the contention is with your claim that students are expected to "shoulder the entire costs of their college."

Tuition and fees cover only part of the costs at public institutions.

[drkitten]

I think the contention is with your claim that students are expected to "shoulder the entire costs of their college."

Tuition and fees cover only part of the costs at public institutions.

Fine. Emend my statement to "shoulder the vast majority of the costs of their college." Even at large public colleges, state support is usually much less than 20% of the costs -- the rest of which is balanced on the students' backs.

[pgwenthold]

Fine. Emend my statement to "shoulder the vast majority of the costs of their college." Even at large public colleges, state support is usually much less than 20% of the costs -- the rest of which is balanced on the students' backs.

Not.

A very large fraction comes from private donation.

[CaptainManacles]

Taught there, in a public college, for the better part of a decade, yes.

I don't think you understand how public colleges are funded in the States.

So you just lied? The students don't shoulder the entire burden of the education, otherwise out of state tuition and private colleges would be just as expensive as public education. It seems to be quite a large chunk, I don't know where you're getting 20% from, our how the equals nothing.

Why exactly should I be forced to pay for someone else's education, anyway?

[drkitten]

So you just lied? The students don't shoulder the entire burden of the education, otherwise out of state tuition and private colleges would be just as expensive as public education.

Not at all.

First, education at private universities is often more expensive than at public universities because the cost structure is different (faculty salaries, for example, are usually considerably better at large private universities precisely so that they can recruit competitively). Second, tuition at public universities usually overcharges non-local students to subsidize locals precisely because the government can't or won't cover enough of the operating costs to make it cost-effective to admit local students.

It seems to be quite a large chunk, I don't know where you're getting 20% from, our how the equals nothing.

The budget books of systems like the University of Colorado, among others. They're (typically) public documents. Check them out.



Why exactly should I be forced to pay for someone else's education, anyway?

Because someday you might need to call the police, and need them to be able to read the street signs to get to where you are. Someday you might want to buy insurance and need the agent to be able to read your application.

Public education is every bit as "public" a good as public sewers.

[drkitten]

Not.

A very large fraction comes from private donation.

Piffle. Private donations cover very little of the costs; that's a usually shell game promulgated by the athletic departments to cover the "directed" donations of the athletic boosters that are donated straight into the athletic coffers and never see the university general coffers.

[CaptainManacles]

Not at all.

First, education at private universities is often more expensive than at public universities because the cost structure is different (faculty salaries, for example, are usually considerably better at large private universities precisely so that they can recruit competitively). Second, tuition at public universities usually overcharges non-local students to subsidize locals precisely because the government can't or won't cover enough of the operating costs to make it cost-effective to admit local students.

So by not at all you mean, yes completely? All of that doesn't change the fact that students are not always shouldering the entire burden, and your slight of hand of changing "local students paying less" into "overcharging non-local students" is just that, slight of hand and not a real argument.

The budget books of systems like the University of Colorado, among others. They're (typically) public documents. Check them out.

I still don't think that equals zero, or think that's a very large sample size.

Because someday you might need to call the police, and need them to be able to read the street signs to get to where you are.

I see no immediate danger of that being a problem, and if it is, I will voluntarily pay for someone's education to learn to read. Also, I didn't know learning to read was something taught only at college level....?

Someday you might want to buy insurance and need the agent to be able to read your application.

Which is why I pay money that goes to his salary so he can pay back student loans.

Piffle. Private donations cover very little of the costs

Private scholarships could potentially cover the entire costs of the education.

[cj.23]

One of the best PhD's I ever read written up as a book, Tanya Luhrmann's Persuasions of a Witches Craft, was on an EXTREMELY similar subject but actually that research had a lot of very important implications and general utility across the whole of the psychology of beliefs area and beyond. Highly recommended. My only complaint here is whether the subject area is different enogh from the earlier study... Do buy Persuasions, it's a great book for any sceptic to own, as it provides a very interesting model of belief linguistics and community...

cj x

[pgwenthold]

Piffle. Private donations cover very little of the costs; that's a usually shell game promulgated by the athletic departments to cover the "directed" donations of the athletic boosters that are donated straight into the athletic coffers and never see the university general coffers.

Double pfiffle.

Although you don't find private donations that go directly into things like paying professor salaries or custodial, they are critical when it comes to factors such as building buildings that are needed for classroom space, and for providing startup packages that are used to lure in top faculty

The state doesn't cover that

[Beerina]

Double pfiffle.

Although you don't find private donations that go directly into things like paying professor salaries or custodial, they are critical when it comes to factors such as building buildings that are needed for classroom space, and for providing startup packages that are used to lure in top faculty

The state doesn't cover that




The reason people like you got a place to teach is because people like me donate buildings.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/2317495bb2c743da2.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14740)




















Ah, hehehe, lighten up.














Hey, everybody! Let's get laid!

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2317495bb35605086.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14741)

[CaptainManacles]

did you just bump a 3 month old thread?