large % of world population believes in ct theory

[firecoins]

http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=32140442&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281

Are we making enough progress? I think so but these polls show otherwise. Of course...polls can be manipulated.

[David Wong]

Well now wait a second, when they polled people on who was "responsible" for the attacks, are they roping in a whole bunch of people who are saying terrorists flew the planes, but that the evil US government simply had it coming to them?

Like did they specifically spell out the conspiracy theory or did they just vaguely ask who was "responsible" for the attacks?

[Drudgewire]

Israel was behind the attacks, said 43 percent of people in Egypt, 31 percent in Jordan and 19 percent in the Palestinian Territories. The U.S. government was blamed by 36 percent of Turks and 27 percent of Palestinians.


OK, I understand Egypt's numbers but I'm STUNNED we rank higher than the Jews in Palestinian territories. :eye-poppi

And the way the article is worded makes me think they wanted high numbers. "The US Government is to blame" could mean anything from orchestrating the attacks to letting it happen to being bullies towards the middle east which resulted in a terrible backlash.

[DC]

http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=32140442&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281

Are we making enough progress? I think so but these polls show otherwise. Of course...polls can be manipulated.

16,063 people in 17 nations hardly can represent the world oppinion i think.

[CHF]

I'd like to see the exact questions asked.

[parky76]

"uh..yes...i believe the usa did it..now let me get back to dinner"

these polls are meaningless.

[Totovader]

Q1. As you know, on September 11, 2001 the United States was attacked. Who do you think was behind the 9/11 attacks? [Open-ended responses were coded according to list below.]

9 of the 17 countries sampled were done using face-to-face interviews... there is no mention of the specific methodology for sampling or selection. Accuracy really isn't what this group was going for.

The last statements of a poll generally hint at what the agency was going for:

Though people with greater education generally have greater exposure to news, those with greater education are only slightly more likely to attribute 9/11 to al Qaeda. Steven Kull comments, "It does not appear that these beliefs can simply be attributed to a lack of exposure to information."

A stronger correlate of beliefs about 9/11 are respondents' attitudes about the United States. Those with a positive view of America's influence in the world are more likely to cite al Qaeda (on average 59%) than those with a negative view (40%). Those with a positive view of the United States are also less likely to blame the US government (7%) than those with a negative view (22%).

Education? Where was education mentioned anywhere in the survey?

[parky76]

the only polls that really matter are scientifically randomized polls. they are the only ones that can get an accurate reading of an area's general opinion. just asking folks on the street..does not count.

and btw....less then 1,000 people per country were surveyed. thats 1,000 of Egypts 54,000,000 people. thats um... .0002% I believe.

=)

[Drudgewire]

Education? Where was education mentioned anywhere in the survey?

I'm not trying to country-bash, but "the only countries with overwhelming majorities blaming al Qaeda were Kenya with 77 percent and Nigeria with 71 percent" part is pretty good circumstancial evidence. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

Also:

Those with a positive view of the United States are also less likely to blame the US government (7%) than those with a negative view (22%).


So 7% of those asked responded "the US was responsible for 9/11. HELL YEAH!! U-S-A!! U-S-A!!"

:boggled:

[defaultdotxbe]

I'd like to see the exact questions asked.
there was only 1 question, totovader quoted it above

heres the PDF from the polling company
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/sep0/WPO_911_Sep08_quaire.pdf


since the question was open ended the poller lumped responses into the catagories, so we dont know what the qualifications were for "the government was behind it"

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Alternate headlines for this thread:

half of world's population below average intelligence

half of world's population below average education

large % of world population believes EVERYTHING is U.S.'s fault

:D I like the last one best. :D

there was only 1 question, totovader quoted it above

heres the PDF from the polling company
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/sep0/WPO_911_Sep0_quaire.pdf

since the question was open ended the poller lumped responses into the catagories, so we dont know what the qualifications were for "the government was behind it"

This one works...
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/sep08/WPO_911_Sep08_quaire.pdf

[defaultdotxbe]

This one works...
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/pdf/sep08/WPO_911_Sep08_quaire.pdf
wtf happened to the 8 in my link? :confused::confused::confused:

[Cl1mh4224rd]

wtf happened to the 8 in my link? :confused::confused::confused:


It hooked up with the 0 and they multiplied.

[PhantomWolf]

Well considering that AQ leaders have already moaned about how Iran was denying them fair credit, they must he absolutely livid that more of their own people think that the US Govt of the Israelis sis it than are willing to give their own credit. I wonder if they're all falling for the "Dumb Arabs in caves couldn't have planned it" line?

[CHF]

I guess we'll see tomorrow how accurate that poll was.

Will millions, even thousands, take to the streets?

I doubt it.

[PugsOnAPlane]

This isn't surprising, some of the first things I heard about 9/11 conspiracy theories were that they were popular in the Arab world.

[MarkyX]

This isn't surprising, some of the first things I heard about 9/11 conspiracy theories were that they were popular in the Arab world.

Almost every conspiracy theory under the sun is popular in the middle east. Just mention the Protocols of Zion and many arabs believe it to be the truth. Hell, there has been television series based on the Protocols, along with other theories (e.g. Jews drink christian children's blood)

[Slayhamlet]

I'm not trying to country-bash, but "the only countries with overwhelming majorities blaming al Qaeda were Kenya with 77 percent and Nigeria with 71 percent" part is pretty good circumstancial evidence. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

I know you're just making a joke here, but the high-percentage of Kenyans blaming Al-Qaeda shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Nigeria is a bit more puzzling to me.

[parky76]

um..many Muslims still think 4,000 jews didnt go to work that day. and they believe it because...the television told them so. yet they dont believe it when the television tells them al-qaeda and 19 arabs did 9-11.

so....who really cares what they say or believe.

[ref]

and btw....less then 1,000 people per country were surveyed. thats 1,000 of Egypts 54,000,000 people. thats um... .0002% I believe.

=)

It makes no difference whether the country has 1,000,000 or 50,000,000 people. A sample of 1,000 has a margin of error of 3 percent with 95% confidence level (if you asked a question from this poll 100 times, 95 of those times the results would be within 3 percentage points of the original answer). Making the sample size bigger is not usually necessary, because the gained accuracy of such action is so minimal. For example if you double the sample size to 2,000 the margin of error drops only one point to 2 percent. You get a little more accuracy, but the survey costs rise significantly. That's why the polls usually settle for the margin of error of 3 percent, and a sample size of 1,000 people.

ETA: I see Egypt had a sample size of only 600. That results in a margin of error of 4 percent. Note that the surprisingly large margin of error of 3.5 percent compared to the sample size of 3209 in Russia is a result of half-sampling. It says at least 800 respondents answered each item, not 3209. A sample size of 800 has a margin of error of 3.46 percent, or 3.5 percent as indicated to Russia in the poll PDF. A sample size of 3209 would give a margin of error of approx 1.7 percent.

Ok, I stop :)

[deep]

Are we making enough progress? I think so but these polls show otherwise. Of course...polls can be manipulated.


Polls can be manipulated? You might actually have an argument if these results were in any way anomalous, but they're not. Of course, I mean 'anomalous' in the context of other polls, not the arbitrary measurements you guys have invented (e.g., 911blogger.com traffic, protest attendance, etc).

Face it - recent polls suggest that a significant percentage of people around the world don't agree with you. It's public opinion - nothing more, nothing less.

[deep]

I guess we'll see tomorrow how accurate that poll was.

Will millions, even thousands, take to the streets?


Sorry, but that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the poll.

Seriously, what are you suggesting? If 15% of the world's population doesn't go out and protest, that means the poll was invalid? LOL.

Give it a rest - you're not fooling anybody (except yourselves).

[deep]

Well now wait a second, when they polled people on who was "responsible" for the attacks, are they roping in a whole bunch of people who are saying terrorists flew the planes, but that the evil US government simply had it coming to them?

Like did they specifically spell out the conspiracy theory or did they just vaguely ask who was "responsible" for the attacks?


They asked: "who do you think was behind the 9/11 attacks?"

It was an open-ended question (i.e., no options were offered).

[mrbaracuda]

OK, I understand Egypt's numbers but I'm STUNNED we rank higher than the Jews in Palestinian territories. :eye-poppi

Must be the truce with Israel. ;)

[PhantomWolf]

Funny thing is that Mohammed Atta and some of the posters here would have got on really well. One of his roommates in Germany spoke about the time that Atta, after being a little gaseous and making noises in the bathroom that caused those in the lounge of the flat to laugh, claimed that the door must have been made by Jews and was deliberately thin so as to cause him embarrassment.

[deep]

Funny thing is that Mohammed Atta and some of the posters here would have got on really well. One of his roommates in Germany spoke about the time that Atta, after being a little gaseous and making noises in the bathroom that caused those in the lounge of the flat to laugh, claimed that the door must have been made by Jews and was deliberately thin so as to cause him embarrassment.


Source?

[PhantomWolf]

Interview with Atta's ex-roomies with Terry McDermot in his book Perfect Soldiers

[deep]

Interview with Atta's ex-roomies with Terry McDermot in his book Perfect Soldiers


Thanks.

[Illustronic]

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that".
____________________George Carlin.

[PhantomWolf]

Thanks.

I'd give the page number and an exact quote and reference, but it's sitting on the chair next to my bed in New Zealand and my arms don't stretch that far. Unfortunately due to weight issues (they only let you carry 23kg in each of two bags) I had to leave most of my books behind for this trip and only have Steve Coll's excellent Ghost Wars with me. I really recommend reading Perfect Soldiers and Looming Tower too. There are a few things that aren't right in Perfect Soldiers, but they are things that the author sort of skimmed over in the end about the tower collapses where he ends up repeating a few of the things that were said early on and since proven incorrect, e.g. that the steel melted. All three books are very well referenced and the Authors have done a lot of work talking to those involved in the investigation as well as those that knew the hijackers both in their home towns and in Germany and the US.

[Totovader]

It makes no difference whether the country has 1,000,000 or 50,000,000 people. A sample of 1,000 has a margin of error of 3 percent with 95% confidence level (if you asked a question from this poll 100 times, 95 of those times the results would be within 3 percentage points of the original answer). Making the sample size bigger is not usually necessary, because the gained accuracy of such action is so minimal. For example if you double the sample size to 2,000 the margin of error drops only one point to 2 percent. You get a little more accuracy, but the survey costs rise significantly. That's why the polls usually settle for the margin of error of 3 percent, and a sample size of 1,000 people.

ETA: I see Egypt had a sample size of only 600. That results in a margin of error of 4 percent. Note that the surprisingly large margin of error of 3.5 percent compared to the sample size of 3209 in Russia is a result of half-sampling. It says at least 800 respondents answered each item, not 3209. A sample size of 800 has a margin of error of 3.46 percent, or 3.5 percent as indicated to Russia in the poll PDF. A sample size of 3209 would give a margin of error of approx 1.7 percent.

Ok, I stop :)

I'm no statistics genius- but I have a hard time understanding how a face-to-face questionnaire (which I take to mean street-sampling) of 800 people can result in a MoE of 4%...

[Totovader]

Polls can be manipulated? You might actually have an argument if these results were in any way anomalous, but they're not. Of course, I mean 'anomalous' in the context of other polls, not the arbitrary measurements you guys have invented (e.g., 911blogger.com traffic, protest attendance, etc).

Face it - recent polls suggest that a significant percentage of people around the world don't agree with you. It's public opinion - nothing more, nothing less.

Of course polls can be manipulated- and so often are.

Example... how would you categorize it if someone answered the question in this way: "You know, I'm not sure- I think the Israelis had something to do with it though"

or how about this one

"Oh it was definitely the US. They had it coming to them."

or this one

"Israel helped the US."

or this one

"[Long rant about the Jews]. It was the [random expletive] Jews."

[ref]

I'm no statistics genius- but I have a hard time understanding how a face-to-face questionnaire (which I take to mean street-sampling) of 800 people can result in a MoE of 4%...

You're correct. I didn't notice they had face-to-face questionnaires included. Those margins of error I posted require a random sample of the population.

[Totovader]

If we ignore the subjectivity of polls- and the nature with which they are usually done- and we ignore the low numbers for the majority of developed countries, and we ignore the open question, and we ignore the fact that someone who believes that someone other than AQ and/or Bin Laden and/or KSM are responsible is not necessarily conspiracists, and we ignore the fact that there is no consensus among the incorrect responses...

then maybe we can consider that the so-called Truth Movement is not dead... in Egypt... where you can get less than half the population to buy into the idea that the Jews did it...

[Kryptos]

I have been completely away from JREF for a while. Been spending months overseas in Egypt, where I normally just stay away from talking about politics and 9/11. Most people are perfectly friendly and easy to get along with, but many do have a deep distrust of their government, which is not at all democratic. There is plenty of corruption, the government is harsh when it comes to any political opposition or dissenting opinions, etc. So, people tend to be reluctant to trust what the government says. That distrust extends to other governments, not the least including the U.S. government and Israel.

Thus, there are conspiracy theories for all sorts of things. At the end of August, there was a massive fire at the Egyptian parliament (Shura Council) building. The fire took many hours to be put out, and the entire building was gutted. The whole idea that Egypt has a parliament and any democratic process is a joke, but it goes back to the tradition of being a British colony. So, when the fire occurred, conspiracy theories came up.


Egypt is ablaze with conspiracy theories (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/aug/27/egypt.middleeast) (The Guardian)


At the end of January, two major cables were severed in the Mediterranean, off of Alexandria.


Conspiracy theories emerge after internet cables cut (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/04/2153974.htm?section=world) (ABC - Australia)


So, no surprise that many believe conspiracy theories regarding 9/11:


9/11 Rumors That Become Conventional Wisdom (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/world/africa/09cairo.html) (New York Times)

That's the context that the 9/11 conspiracy theories in the Middle East should be understood. And, of course antisemitism is fairly widespread, hence the idea that the "jews" are responsible for not only 9/11 but all sorts of thing. (e.g. "Israel is manipulating Ethiopia to steal water from the Nile (http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/002365.php)")

Also, it's only a portion of the population that believes these things, especially regarding 9/11 and terrorism. It's important to remember that in 1997, there was a horrific attack on tourists (mostly Swiss tourists) at Queen Hatshepsut's temple at Luxor, in the south of Egypt. People in Egypt were very shocked at how brutal the attack in Luxor was, with blood ending up splattered all over the ancient temple and the people trying to hide from the gunmen. I was able to talk to people about that or hear what they had to say, and they referred to it as terrorism (by extremists associated with Ayman al-Zawahiri) and talked about the attack with nothing but horror. I don't find much anything about conspiracy theories about the Luxor attack. People don't completely deny that extremist Islamist terrorism happens. This attack in 1997 marked a turning point when terrorist attacks in Egypt mostly stopped.

[Kryptos]

I should also mention that I picked up an Arabic language copy of David Ray Griffin's book "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions". I found it at an Arabic bookstore in London, though didn't see any such books in Egypt. Maybe I just didn't find them, or it didn't get past the government censors.

[Pardalis]

Who cares what most people in the world think anyway?

Most people don't understand basic science, most don't even have basic critical thinking skills. Only 15% are atheists, or non-religious, it's not like we didn't know people were mostly stupid.

[PhantomWolf]

Only 15% are atheists, or non-religious, it's not like we didn't know people were mostly stupid.

Since when has 15% been most?

[DC]

Who cares what most people in the world think anyway?

Most people don't understand basic science, most don't even have basic critical thinking skills. Only 15% are atheists, or non-religious, it's not like we didn't know people were mostly stupid.

Beliving in a God has nothing to do with being stupid, alot very smart people and scientists belive in God or some sort of God.

and also Atheists do belive, we belive there is no God.

[T.A.M.]

Well if there is a large portion of the world who believes any of the truther nonsensical tripe, then they should be ashamed. Ashamed of their own apathy.

150-200 protesters at GZ this year, on the ani of 9/11. COME ON. I could get more than that number of people to gather in "crapstainnowhere" for free koolaid!

The most disorganized, apathetic, cowardice group of protesters on the planet. Shameful they are not doing more over their own government killing 3000 of their fellow men and women.

TAM:)

[Grizzly Bear]

A more relevant perspective of the matter is that the popularity of a belief has little to no bearing on its ultimate plausibility. 90% of the world can believe the moon is made of swiss cheese, however it does not make it true.

[CHF]

Sorry, but that has nothing to do with the accuracy of the poll.

Seriously, what are you suggesting? If 15% of the world's population doesn't go out and protest, that means the poll was invalid? LOL.

The problem, Deep, is that the twoof movement's alleged public support seems to exist in a few polls and nowhere else. This seriously calls into question just how accurate those polls are.

For example, back in 2003 there was overwhelming public opposition to the Iraq war in Canada and Europe. Sure enough, we saw the biggest anti-war rallies ever leading up to the invasion.

Now if, say, 40% of Europeans believes in 9/11 twoof - and thus that their troops are in Afghanistan on false pretences - don't you find it odd that their 9/11 protestors can usually be counted on one hand?

Don't you find it odd that every single candaidate backed by the American twoof movement has failed miserably at the ballot box (ie. the only poll that really matters)?

Don't you find it odd that 200 people in a city of 8 million showed up at the latest "piss-on-the-dead" twoof rally at GZ?

Something doesn't add up.

Either the polls are wrong or you guys are the laziest, most useless and pathetic movement in all of history.

[DC]

The problem, Deep, is that the twoof movement's alleged public support seems to exist in a few polls and nowhere else. This seriously calls into question just how accurate those polls are.

For example, back in 2003 there was overwhelming public opposition to the Iraq war in Canada and Europe. Sure enough, we saw the biggest anti-war rallies ever leading up to the invasion.

Now if, say, 40% of Europeans believes in 9/11 twoof - and thus that their troops are in Afghanistan on false pretences - don't you find it odd that their 9/11 protestors can usually be counted on one hand?

Don't you find it odd that every single candaidate backed by the American twoof movement has failed miserably at the ballot box (ie. the only poll that really matters)?

Don't you find it odd that 200 people in a city of 8 million showed up at the latest "piss-on-the-dead" twoof rally at GZ?

Something doesn't add up.

Either the polls are wrong or you guys are the laziest, most useless and pathetic movement in all of history.

you was able to count the 9/11 truth protesters in Brussels on one hand? you must have alot fingers on your hand....

alot european people i know are very septic about the official story about 9/11, alot do belive in LIHOP or MIHOP. but they are not active, they dont go protest or debate about it on internet forums.

[Totovader]

you was able to count the 9/11 truth protesters in Brussels on one hand? you must have alot fingers on your hand....

alot european people i know are very septic about the official story about 9/11, alot do belive in LIHOP or MIHOP. but they are not active, they dont go protest or debate about it on internet forums.

Which causes rational people to not only be skeptical about how serious their beliefs are, but also to be skeptical of your numbers. Your small, biased sample is irrelevant: part-time conspiracists are nothing more than weak followers- they have no chance against science.

[johnny karate]

alot european people i know are very septic about the official story about 9/11, alot do belive in LIHOP or MIHOP. but they are not active, they dont go protest or debate about it on internet forums.

A lot of people you know believe the U.S. government had a hand in the murder of 3,000 of its own citizens and foreign nationals from over 91 countries worldwide? And they do nothing about it? DC, you apparently associate with some very cowardly and morally reprehensible people.

[firecoins]

Hi

Alternate headlines for this thread:

half of world's population below average intelligence

half of world's population below average education

large % of world population believes EVERYTHING is U.S.'s fault

:D I like the last one best. :D


I didn't think of that.

[CHF]

you was able to count the 9/11 truth protesters in Brussels on one hand? you must have alot fingers on your hand....

I said they can USUALLY be counted on one hand. Given that yesterday was your movement's biggest protest day of the year perhaps I would have needed a couple more hands to count them on.

But that's my point, DC: the attendance for most protest rallies has to be estimated.

You guys, meanwhile, can be actually be COUNTED...assuming someone there could be bothered taking the one or two minutes needed to do so.

alot european people i know are very septic about the official story about 9/11, alot do belive in LIHOP or MIHOP. but they are not active, they dont go protest or debate about it on internet forums.

Exactly. That's what I said:

you guys are the laziest, most useless and pathetic movement in all of history.

These are folks who think the US government murdered 3,000 people in order to provide an excuse to murder tens of thousands more and yet they do nothing about it.

I must say, I don't fancy this "movement's" chances of success. Do you?

[DC]

I said they can USUALLY be counted on one hand. Given that yesterday was your movement's biggest protest day of the year perhaps I would have needed a couple more hands to count them on.

But that's my point, DC: the attendance for most protest rallies has to be estimated.

You guys, meanwhile, can be actually be COUNTED...assuming someone there could be bothered taking the one or two minutes needed to do so.



Exactly. That's what I said:



These are folks who think the US government murdered 3,000 people in order to provide an excuse to murder tens of thousands more and yet they do nothing about it.

I must say, I don't fancy this "movement's" chances of success. Do you?

look at the WMD scandal, alot more protested, and? your politicans give a **** what you think or do. far to mcuh americans and people around the world are just to lazy, they prefer to watch some soaps and TV shows, but give a **** what is going on in the world.

US politicans are arsing theyr people, but thosepeople prefer watching TV......

[Totovader]

look at the WMD scandal, alot more protested, and? your politicans give a **** what you think or do. far to mcuh americans and people around the world are just to lazy, they prefer to watch some soaps and TV shows, but give a **** what is going on in the world.

US politicans are arsing theyr people, but thosepeople prefer watching TV......

What- exactly- does this rant have to do with the 9/11 Truth Movement numbers? If you're trying to say that there's no reason to protest, then you're pissing on your own feet. If you're trying to say that people are too lazy to protest- then see my above comment.

If you're just whining about how much you hate the government and want to call everyone sheeple- then I don't really see much relevance to your post...

[Mince]

http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=32140442&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281


15 percent said the U.S. government (was responsible for 9/11).


http://www.911truth.org/images/ZogbyPoll2007.pdf


(U.S. Government) made (9/11) happen: 4.6%



According to the truther's own polls, less than 5% of Americans and only 15% of rest of the world believe actual "inside job." I'd say that's significantly low.

[CHF]

look at the WMD scandal, alot more protested, and? your politicans give a **** what you think or do. far to mcuh americans and people around the world are just to lazy, they prefer to watch some soaps and TV shows, but give a **** what is going on in the world.

US politicans are arsing theyr people, but thosepeople prefer watching TV......

But I thought the Twoof Movement was supposed to be enlightened and in-tune with what's really going on - unlike all those lazy brainwashed "sheeple" you guys love to look down on.

And now it turns out that twoofers are just as lazy and easily distracted by soaps and TV shows as the rest of society??? Say it ain't so, DC!

If anything I'd say you guys are worse. You're aware of a massive global conspiracy that aims to turn our world into a "prison planet" and you have the key to expose the whole plot....but apparently 99.9% of you just can't be bothered doing anything about it, be it protesting, voting, or anything else. And even the ones who do take to the streets are scared off by a little rain...

I've never seen such a lackluster "movement" in my life - especially one claiming such self-importance.

[DC]

But I thought the Twoof Movement was supposed to be enlightened and in-tune with what's really going on - unlike all those lazy brainwashed "sheeple" you guys love to look down on.

And now it turns out that twoofers are just as lazy and easily distracted by soaps and TV shows as the rest of society??? Say it ain't so, DC!

If anything I'd say you guys are worse. You're aware of a massive global conspiracy that aims to turn our world into a "prison planet" and you have the key to expose the whole plot....but apparently 99.9% of you just can't be bothered doing anything about it, be it protesting, voting, or anything else. And even the ones who do take to the streets are scared off by a little rain...

I've never seen such a lackluster "movement" in my life - especially one claiming such self-importance.

worser than who?
the US admin lied about WMD's and moer than 3000 US soldiers died because of that, and who cares?

most people dont stand up untill they are directly affected. Look at Bush's ratings, that and the WMD lies should be enough to impeach the guy, and what is happening? Impeachments fail and no protests, the chances are there that McBush will get elected.....

[rwguinn]

Who cares what most people in the world think anyway?

Most people don't understand basic science, most don't even have basic critical thinking skills. Only 15% are atheists, or non-religious, it's not like we didn't know people were mostly stupid.

Since when has 15% been most?

So, PhantomWolf--
Only Athiests understand basic science? Is that what you believe? So, since 15% is not most, you jump on it?
Read what he said, not what you want to believe he said, please

[Jonnyclueless]

worser than who?
the US admin lied about WMD's and moer than 3000 US soldiers died because of that, and who cares?

most people dont stand up untill they are directly affected. Look at Bush's ratings, that and the WMD lies should be enough to impeach the guy, and what is happening? Impeachments fail and no protests, the chances are there that McBush will get elected.....

They didn't die because the WMD issue, which you have yet to prove is a lie. The WMD issue didn't determine going to Iraq, it just influenced the timing.

But back to your political propaganda.

[beachnut]

Just like the truth movement, hate bush, apologize for terrorist, apologize for saddam, and off topic. What does wmds have to do with 9/11? Typical failed truther logic prevails to ensure zero evidence is the only thing the truth movement has. Zero.

[CHF]

the US admin lied about WMD's and moer than 3000 US soldiers died because of that, and who cares?

The voters who crushed the Republicans in the 2006 mid-terms, for starters.

most people dont stand up untill they are directly affected.

So truthers don't feel they are directly affected by this impending fascist global police state and all those losses of civil liberty that you guys are always talking about? What cowards!

Remember DC - the TM keeps producing youtube videos and yelling slogans in the belief that their "evidence" is so overwhelming that all they have to do to convince people of the "truth" is show it to them.

But even the tiny core of twoofers who are willing to make fools of themselves in public can't be bothered trying to save the world with "street actions" if it rains. :rolleyes:

[dudalb]

"If 50 Million People Say A Foolish Thing, It Is Still A Foolish Thing".

Voltaire said that in the mid 1700's, and it is as true today as it was then.

[dudalb]

Most people don't understand basic science, most don't even have basic critical thinking skills. Only 15% are atheists, or non-religious, it's not like we didn't know people were mostly stupid.

You might want to rephrase that, Pardalis. It implies that if you are not an athiest or have religious beliefs, you are stupid.

BTW I cheerfully admit although I am a total skeptic on religon, I do not share the hatred for religon that a lot of non religious people seem to have.

[Pardalis]

You might want to rephrase that, Pardalis. It implies that if you are not an athiest or have religious beliefs, you are stupid.

BTW I cheerfully admit although I am a total skeptic on religon, I do not share the hatred for religon that a lot of non religious people seem to have.

It's not hatred of religion, I just like to call a cat a cat. The fact that alot of people believe in 9/11 CT crap doesn't surprise me, since 85% percent of the population still believes in the supernatural, beliefs that are not based on evidence.

Maybe I should have put it a little bit more gently, but overall that's what I meant.

BTW I'm stupid about alot of things too, I'm stupid about economics, math and a bunch of other things. Nobody is immune to it.

[VespaGuy]

Here is my reason why I believe the poll is an inaccurate assesment of the Truth Movement.

Since September 11, 2001 I have not physically met a single person who believes that the US government carried out 9/11. Not one. Zero. Zilch. In addition, most people that I've mentioned the 9/11 conspiracies to (freinds, family, coworkers), have never even heard of them. Outside of the internet, I have never even heard the phrase "Truth Movement"

What's funnier still, if the Truth Movement really represents this large percentage of the population, why are they continually booed when they disrupt speakers (wouldn't at least a third of the room cheer them on, if they supported them?). Why do they complain that they are the only one in their school or office who believes this? How can they continue to believe that a majority of the population share their beliefs when the majority of people they meet are "sheeple"?

On the internet, the members of the Truth Movement are a vocal group: they crash polls, they spam websites that mention 9/11, and they make stupid videos. But in the real world they just aren't significant at all.

[Pardalis]

****
****

What's with you Europeans and swearing?

There are other words you can use you know... :rolleyes:

[PhantomWolf]

While not quite on topic, there is a new book just out called Against US (http://www.amazon.com/Against-Us-Americas-Enemies-Muslim/dp/0307406881/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221249641&sr=1-1). It's written by a US reporter, Jim Sciutto, who has spent a lot of time in the Muslim World and has based it on the very real anti-US feelings that are raging across that part of the world. Not a 9/11 book, but certainly one that could help explain mindset that leads to the high percentage of Muslims who are more willing to believe that the US did it to themselves.

[PhantomWolf]

So, PhantomWolf--
Only Athiests understand basic science? Is that what you believe? So, since 15% is not most, you jump on it?
Read what he said, not what you want to believe he said, please

Actually I think you need to re-read what he said, and my reply. Other people picked up the same thing.

You might want to rephrase that, Pardalis. It implies that if you are not an athiest or have religious beliefs, you are stupid.

BTW I cheerfully admit although I am a total skeptic on religon, I do not share the hatred for religon that a lot of non religious people seem to have.

I'm sure if you think about it hard enough, you'll understand my response.

[JohnG]

alot european people i know are very septic about the official story about 9/11

Ah, that explains the smell.

[Tweeter]

Ah, I love that smell.
Thats sick johnny!

[JohnG]

You make me sad.

[PhantomWolf]

You know, I think Tweeter is trying to get himself the Banned badge now, he was just suspended for breaching the MA, then the first post back alters a post in such a way to breach it again. I guess the only thing he has left is to troll until banned and then play the "JREF Banned me because they couldn't handle the Troof" card.

[mrbaracuda]

What's with you Europeans and swearing?

There are other words you can use you know... :rolleyes:

German swear words aren't as amazing as their English counterparts! ;)

[Homeland Insurgency]

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/535.php?nid=&id=&pnt=535

Is this the last poll on 9/11? What's the strategy theses days? Let's not take anymore polls?

What are you debunkers all doing here? Shouldn't you all branch out a little bit or something? Is pretending it's all nonsense really working? This is getting worse then JFK. Has nothing you have tried had an impact at all?

Do truthers even need a new investigation? I mean who believes the first one these days?

[stateofgrace]

Is there some point here?

[rwguinn]

Is there some point here?
Maybe they are hoping we've gone stupid?
Or that we actually have a strategy consisting of something other than our tired old 2.00+2.00=4.00 for all values of 2 and 4 stuff.

[beachnut]

The pathetic liars of 911Truth have only apologized for terrorist who murdered Americans. They are the terrorist’s collaborators the terrorist never asked for. UBL must be laughing at the anti-intelligent 911Truth movement as they apologize for terrorist acts.

A worthless OP started by a 911Truth apologist who has no evidence and is bankrupt of knowledge on 911, but loves the delusions of 911Truth. Delusions he can only support with hearsay, lies and fantasy.

I like to look up the delusions HI and other 911Truth cult members post and see how easy it is to refute their false ideas. 911Truth statements and conclusions are self-debunking. 911Truth supply references that refute their own conclusion in their own work. It is a parade of stupid; you go to the web site, use references they supply that refute their own ideas.

[Redtail]

I can't speak for others but personally my strategy is to mock and laugh at the truthers. (Not that polls mean much but if you're going to use them you should really look at them a little closer.) Also how many of the "real" perps have you guys put behind bars? C'mon! Bush & Co (and the NWluminattiburgers) are laughing at you.:D

[911files]

First, I'm not a debunker.

Second, the poll shows nothing to take action about. Mideast Muslim nations think it was Israel. No suprise there and nothing anyone says or does will change that. However, looking at it overall, the two leading contenders globally are Al Qaeda or folks just don't know enough (or care) to say. They total 71%, better than Obama's approval rating these days. That leaves only 29% who believe it was the U.S., Israel or somebody else.

Not a good sign for the TM, so why are you posting polls that demonstrate most of the world does not buy what you are selling HI?

[AJM8125]

Like everything else, it's been done. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=123292)

Next.

[Dr Adequate]

http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security_bt/535.php?nid=&id=&pnt=535

Is this the last poll on 9/11? What's the strategy theses days? Let's not take anymore polls?

What are you debunkers all doing here? Shouldn't you all branch out a little bit or something? You mean, like learning Arabic and try to convince antisemitic fanatics that the Jews weren't responsible? Or learning Chinese and telling them what 9/11 was?

Too much trouble. I think we English-speakers will have to settle for victory in the Anglophone countries that we actually live in.

You, meanwhile, may wish to claim the 43% of Egyptians who blame the Jews as a victory for the Truth Movement ... though I think you'll find that many of them were antisemitic conspiracy theorists even before such Truther gurus as Eric Hufschmidt, Daryl Smith, and Chris Bollyn started trying to blame the Jews for 9/11. Frankly, for you guys to claim credit for Arabic antisemitism would be like spitting in the Atlantic and then claiming credit for making it wet.

The same, of course, would apply to the insular attitudes of the Chinese.

Is pretending it's all nonsense really working? This is getting worse then JFK. Has nothing you have tried had an impact at all?

Do truthers even need a new investigation? I mean who believes the first one these days? Let us know when your little Truth Rallies manage to pull in more punters than Furry conventions, eh?

[3bodyproblem]

What are you debunkers all doing here? Shouldn't you all branch out a little bit or something? Is pretending it's all nonsense really working? This is getting worse then JFK. Has nothing you have tried had an impact at all?



We've come to grips with the fact that there is no cure for stupidity.

FYI- This poll was the topic a previous thread in the sub-forum.

[A W Smith]

Hey Homeland!! Didn't you read the OP?
:dl:

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Most of us are sitting back, enjoying watching your "movement" just dwindle away into nothingness.

[parky76]

um....its fair to say that these 9-11 polls are now kinda useless and irrelevant.

[Grizzly Bear]

um....its fair to say that these 9-11 polls are now kinda useless and irrelevant.

I don't know when they were supposed to matter in the first place... polls are dictated by opinion, but they don't have any bearing on the truthfulness on anything...

[Horatius]

Most of us are sitting back, enjoying watching your "movement" just dwindle away into nothingness.



Well, that, and watching the Furries, yeah....


;)

[911files]

Most of us are sitting back, enjoying watching your "movement" just dwindle away into nothingness.

Speaking of which, the CIT boys are awful quiet these days :woowoo

[parky76]

I don't why it is. Maybe Ive been hanging out with friends more. Maybe its because I have been dating a lot. But for some reason, for the most part, I now see 9-11 truth and debating 9-11 truthers, as really dumb. I so much prefer discussion present day political issues and current social events.

[Hokulele]

I don't know when they were supposed to matter in the first place... polls are dictated by opinion, but they don't have any bearing on the truthfulness on anything...


This seemed to be some sort of argumentum ad unpopularum.

[orphia nay]

Frankly, for you guys to claim credit for Arabic antisemitism would be like spitting in the Atlantic and then claiming credit for making it wet.

:big:

HI's "new" topic was worth it just for that!

[alfalfafour]

Of course...polls can be manipulated.

That is the understatement of the century. Most polls ARE manipulated. If not by the pollsters with "push poll" questions, then by the "media executives" and the politicians who cherry-pick only the statistics which push their agenda.

[Dave Rogers]

First, I'm not a debunker.

I'd dispute that point. What you seem to be doing, on a regular basis, is studying the evidence carefully, then pointing out on the basis of that evidence that certain theories are unfounded and indefensible. Which bit of debunking does that leave out?

Dave

[Mince]

http://www.newsmeat.com/news/meat.php?articleId=32140442&channelId=2951&buyerId=newsmeatcom&buid=3281

Are we making enough progress? I think so but these polls show otherwise. Of course...polls can be manipulated.

46% Al Qaeda
15% U.S. Government
25% Don't know
7% Israel
7% Other

If we're not making enough progress, at least we're making the most progress. After all of the truthers' hard work pounding the message boards for seven years, handing out flyers and DVDs, incessantly misinterpreting and skewing almost every story related to 9/11, they have 15% to show for their efforts. I bet if you took a worldwide poll, 15% would claim that the Earth was flat and that Russia Invaded Georgia (in the U.S.) last year. Also, I'd like to think we would claim a majority of the unknown 25%, once they've examined the issue(s) in a critical, unbiased manner; and that a fair portion of the 29% who answered definitively and said it was someone other than Al Queda did so merely because they hate the U.S., Israel, or whichever country their delusions allow them to believe perpetrated the attacks.

But, ultimately, however bad the poll may seem, its:

46% Al Queda
29% Not Al Queda
15% truthers (who claim, almost exclusively, the U.S. was responsible, and only 22% if you factor in the truthers' "Israel" claims).

I can live with those numbers.

[A W Smith]

46% Al Qaeda
15% U.S. Government
25% Don't know
7% Israel
7% Other

If we're not making enough progress, at least we're making the most progress. After all of the truthers' hard work pounding the message boards for seven years, handing out flyers and DVDs, incessantly misinterpreting and skewing almost every story related to 9/11, they have 15% to show for their efforts. I bet if you took a worldwide poll, 15% would claim that the Earth was flat and that Russia Invaded Georgia (in the U.S.) last year. Also, I'd like to think we would claim a majority of the unknown 25%, once they've examined the issue(s) in a critical, unbiased manner; and that a fair portion of the 29% who answered definitively and said it was someone other than Al Queda did so merely because they hate the U.S., Israel, or whichever country their delusions allow them to believe perpetrated the attacks.

But, ultimately, however bad the poll may seem, its:

46% Al Queda
29% Not Al Queda
15% truthers (who claim, almost exclusively, the U.S. was responsible, and only 22% if you factor in the truthers' "Israel" claims).

I can live with those numbers.

Don't forget to include the tonight show Jay Walk All Stars in your poll results.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=31133712