Tsukasa Buddha
12th September 2008, 11:05 PM
Skipping pointless blather, and trying to avoid violating copyright: Linky (http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/08/17/full-transcript-saddleback-presidential-forum-sen-barack-obama-john-mccain-moderated-by-rick-warren/).
Obama on his greatest moral failure:
OBAMA: Well, in my own life I’d break it up in stages. I had a difficult youth. My father wasn’t in the house. I’ve written about this. You know, there were times where I experimented with drugs. I drank in my teenage years. And what I traced this to is a certain selfishness on my part. I was so obsessed with me and, you know, the reasons that I might be dissatisfied that I couldn’t focus on other people. And I think the process for me of growing up was to recognize that it’s not about me. It’s about –
WARREN: I like that. I like that.
OBAMA: Absolutely. So — but look, you know, when I — when I find myself taking the wrong step, I think a lot of times it’s because I’m trying to protect myself instead of trying to do god’s work.
Oh, wow, he had youthful exploits :eek: !
First of all, that is not a specific moral failure, and confessing to sins from one's distant past is such a dodge because we have an understanding that youthful exploits are fun tales/learning tales.
On America's greatest moral failure:
I think America’s greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don’t abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of — that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not having — not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. There’s a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don’t spend enough time thinking about the least of us.
Nice slipping in scripture. This shows him to be, wait for it, a liberal.
While I think most would agree that oppression has been one of America's moral failures, his solution is the typical "provide opportunities to get into the middle class", which is a rather average/typical principle.
On when he went against "party line":
Well, you know, I’ll give you an example that, in fact, I worked with John McCain on, and that was the issue of campaign ethics reform and finance reform.
[snip]
Now, I believe the bill he is referring to passed 96-2 Linky (http://obama.senate.gov/issues/ethics_and_lobbying_reform/). So this is a rather pathetic attempt.
Of course, I don't think voting with the party is such a bad thing. There is a reason why he joined the party and a reason why he got elected among other candidates. It would just be better to come out and say it.
On a policy change from 10 years ago:
Well, you know, I — I’m trying to think back ten years ago. I think that a good example would be the issue of welfare reform, where I always believed that welfare had to be changed. I was much more concerned ten years ago when President Clinton initially signed the bill that this could have disastrous results. I worked in the Illinois legislature to make sure that we were providing child care and health care, other support services for the women who were going to be kicked off the roles after a certain time.
It had — it worked better than, I think, a lot of people anticipated. And, you know, one of the things that I am absolutely convinced of is that we have to work as a centerpiece of any social policy.
Oh, what an old-school Liberul :rolleyes: .
On his most difficult decision:
Well, you know, I think the opposition to the war in Iraq was as tough a decision as I’ve had to make.
Oh Jesus ****.
On abortion:
Well, you know, I think that whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.
But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade, and I come to that conclusion not because I’m pro-abortion, but because, ultimately, I don’t think women make these decisions casually. I think they — they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors or their family members.
Hm, so he doesn't have a specific view on human rights, but he supports abortion anyway?
The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down and that is something we have to address.
This is a great point, if it were true.
In recent years, the number of abortions has fallen; the 1.2 million tallied for 2005 was down 8 percent from 2000, and the per-capita abortion rate was the lowest since 1974.
Linky (http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2008/01/20/news/04abort.txt).
But what are his common ground solutions?
And as an example of that, one of the things that I’ve talked about is how do we provide the resources that allow women to make the choice to keep a child. You know, have we given them the health care that they need? Have we given them the support services that they need? Have we given them the options of adoption that are necessary?
These are only examples, but they don't seem that great to me:
Most U.S. women cite more than one factor contributing to their decision to have an abortion: Almost three-quarters say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about three-quarters say they cannot afford to have a child; and almost half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.
Linky (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/characteristics.html).
I don't see helping with health care to be that great of a factor in reducing abortions.
How about comprehensive sex education, greater access to contraception and emergency contraception- Oh, wait, fundies don't support that, they want abstinence-only education.
If you want to be most effective, you can't be "common ground". Common ground leaves us with what we have now.
On gay marriage:
I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman.
He goes on to talk about God and trying to appease everyone.
Odd that he doesn't explain why he believes marriage is a union between a man and a woman... I wonder if it is a pander by omission...
Then a lot about this abstract "Evil" that is never actually defined, but I liked this part:
Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for to us have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, because a lot of evil’s been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.
REV. RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: In the name of good.
OBAMA: In the name of good, and I think, you know, one thing that’s very important is having some humility in recognizing that just because we think that our intentions are good, doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.
Now, of course he doesn't relate this to anything in particular, but hey, it is at least true.
And then we shockingly learn that he wouldn't appoint conservative judges!
On to faith based initiatives:
Well, you know, it’s one of those situations where the devil’s in the details. I think generally speaking, faith-based organizations should not be advantaged or disadvantaged when it comes to getting federal funds, by virtue of the fact that they’re faith-based organizations. They just want a level playing field. But what we do want to make sure of is that as a general principle we’re not using federal funding to discriminate, but that is only when it comes to the narrow program that is being funded by the federal government. That does not affect any of the other ministries that are being taken, that are taking place.
This I actually like, I don't have any major qualms.
I think that we should - and I’ve said this publicly, that we should set up a system of performance pay for teachers, negotiated with teachers, worked with the teachers to figure out the assessments, so that they feel like they’re being judged fairly, it’s not at the whim of the principal. That it’s not simply based on a single high stakes standardized test but the basic notion that teaching is a profession, that teachers are underpaid, so we need to pay them all more, but - and create a higher baseline, but then we should also reward excellence.
Again, this is more trying to have it both ways. He is constantly trying to say that he supports some kind of merit pay for teachers, but refuses to say what it would be based on.
Of course, he says it would be negotiated with teachers, but this is just putting it off and allowing for it not to happen at all.
And, of course, this is buying into the conservative rhetoric that teacher's unions are teh devil etc.
On to taxes:
What I can say is under the approach I’m taking, if you make $150,000 or less, you will see a tax cut. If you’re making $250,000 a year or more, you’re going to see a modest increase.
Again, buying into conservative rhetoric of tax cuts.
As an American, what’s worth dying for? What’s worth having sacrifice of the American lives for?
OBAMA: Well, obviously American freedom, American lives, America’s national interests.
Clearly a Marxist.
And for a hit at the interviewer:
WARREN: OK. This one is dear to my heart. Most people don’t know that there are 148 million orphans in the world. 148 million kids growing up without mommies and dads. They don’t need to be in an orphanage. They need to be in families. But a lot of families can’t afford to take these kids in.
Hm, if only there were people fighting for their right to start a family of their own that could help with the adoption numbers...
Hmmm...
Oftentimes young women who are caught up in prostitution. So we’ve got to give prosecutors the tools to crack down on these human trafficking networks.
Prostitution and human trafficking are unrelated.
I guess we will have to wait for the next election to get a pro-legalization candidate :p .
I mean, one of the things, if you’re a person of faith like me, I believe that things will work out and we will get the president that we need.
Wow, just like God will defeat Evil for us, he will also make sure that "everything works out" and we will get the right president!
He must of been busy with some other universe for the Bush administration then...
But seriously, how dangerously naive could such a fundamental world view be?
Of course, it might just be pandering in this speech, so I'll have to check if he pulls these lines again later.
Obama on his greatest moral failure:
OBAMA: Well, in my own life I’d break it up in stages. I had a difficult youth. My father wasn’t in the house. I’ve written about this. You know, there were times where I experimented with drugs. I drank in my teenage years. And what I traced this to is a certain selfishness on my part. I was so obsessed with me and, you know, the reasons that I might be dissatisfied that I couldn’t focus on other people. And I think the process for me of growing up was to recognize that it’s not about me. It’s about –
WARREN: I like that. I like that.
OBAMA: Absolutely. So — but look, you know, when I — when I find myself taking the wrong step, I think a lot of times it’s because I’m trying to protect myself instead of trying to do god’s work.
Oh, wow, he had youthful exploits :eek: !
First of all, that is not a specific moral failure, and confessing to sins from one's distant past is such a dodge because we have an understanding that youthful exploits are fun tales/learning tales.
On America's greatest moral failure:
I think America’s greatest moral failure in my lifetime has been that we still don’t abide by that basic precept in Matthew that whatever you do for the least of my brothers, you do for me, and that notion of — that basic principle applies to poverty. It applies to racism and sexism. It applies to, you know, not having — not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class. There’s a pervasive sense, I think, that this country, as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don’t spend enough time thinking about the least of us.
Nice slipping in scripture. This shows him to be, wait for it, a liberal.
While I think most would agree that oppression has been one of America's moral failures, his solution is the typical "provide opportunities to get into the middle class", which is a rather average/typical principle.
On when he went against "party line":
Well, you know, I’ll give you an example that, in fact, I worked with John McCain on, and that was the issue of campaign ethics reform and finance reform.
[snip]
Now, I believe the bill he is referring to passed 96-2 Linky (http://obama.senate.gov/issues/ethics_and_lobbying_reform/). So this is a rather pathetic attempt.
Of course, I don't think voting with the party is such a bad thing. There is a reason why he joined the party and a reason why he got elected among other candidates. It would just be better to come out and say it.
On a policy change from 10 years ago:
Well, you know, I — I’m trying to think back ten years ago. I think that a good example would be the issue of welfare reform, where I always believed that welfare had to be changed. I was much more concerned ten years ago when President Clinton initially signed the bill that this could have disastrous results. I worked in the Illinois legislature to make sure that we were providing child care and health care, other support services for the women who were going to be kicked off the roles after a certain time.
It had — it worked better than, I think, a lot of people anticipated. And, you know, one of the things that I am absolutely convinced of is that we have to work as a centerpiece of any social policy.
Oh, what an old-school Liberul :rolleyes: .
On his most difficult decision:
Well, you know, I think the opposition to the war in Iraq was as tough a decision as I’ve had to make.
Oh Jesus ****.
On abortion:
Well, you know, I think that whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.
But point number two, I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade, and I come to that conclusion not because I’m pro-abortion, but because, ultimately, I don’t think women make these decisions casually. I think they — they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors or their family members.
Hm, so he doesn't have a specific view on human rights, but he supports abortion anyway?
The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down and that is something we have to address.
This is a great point, if it were true.
In recent years, the number of abortions has fallen; the 1.2 million tallied for 2005 was down 8 percent from 2000, and the per-capita abortion rate was the lowest since 1974.
Linky (http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2008/01/20/news/04abort.txt).
But what are his common ground solutions?
And as an example of that, one of the things that I’ve talked about is how do we provide the resources that allow women to make the choice to keep a child. You know, have we given them the health care that they need? Have we given them the support services that they need? Have we given them the options of adoption that are necessary?
These are only examples, but they don't seem that great to me:
Most U.S. women cite more than one factor contributing to their decision to have an abortion: Almost three-quarters say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or other responsibilities; about three-quarters say they cannot afford to have a child; and almost half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.
Linky (http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/characteristics.html).
I don't see helping with health care to be that great of a factor in reducing abortions.
How about comprehensive sex education, greater access to contraception and emergency contraception- Oh, wait, fundies don't support that, they want abstinence-only education.
If you want to be most effective, you can't be "common ground". Common ground leaves us with what we have now.
On gay marriage:
I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman.
He goes on to talk about God and trying to appease everyone.
Odd that he doesn't explain why he believes marriage is a union between a man and a woman... I wonder if it is a pander by omission...
Then a lot about this abstract "Evil" that is never actually defined, but I liked this part:
Now, the one thing that I think is very important is for to us have some humility in how we approach the issue of confronting evil, because a lot of evil’s been perpetrated based on the claim that we were trying to confront evil.
REV. RICK WARREN, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: In the name of good.
OBAMA: In the name of good, and I think, you know, one thing that’s very important is having some humility in recognizing that just because we think that our intentions are good, doesn’t always mean that we’re going to be doing good.
Now, of course he doesn't relate this to anything in particular, but hey, it is at least true.
And then we shockingly learn that he wouldn't appoint conservative judges!
On to faith based initiatives:
Well, you know, it’s one of those situations where the devil’s in the details. I think generally speaking, faith-based organizations should not be advantaged or disadvantaged when it comes to getting federal funds, by virtue of the fact that they’re faith-based organizations. They just want a level playing field. But what we do want to make sure of is that as a general principle we’re not using federal funding to discriminate, but that is only when it comes to the narrow program that is being funded by the federal government. That does not affect any of the other ministries that are being taken, that are taking place.
This I actually like, I don't have any major qualms.
I think that we should - and I’ve said this publicly, that we should set up a system of performance pay for teachers, negotiated with teachers, worked with the teachers to figure out the assessments, so that they feel like they’re being judged fairly, it’s not at the whim of the principal. That it’s not simply based on a single high stakes standardized test but the basic notion that teaching is a profession, that teachers are underpaid, so we need to pay them all more, but - and create a higher baseline, but then we should also reward excellence.
Again, this is more trying to have it both ways. He is constantly trying to say that he supports some kind of merit pay for teachers, but refuses to say what it would be based on.
Of course, he says it would be negotiated with teachers, but this is just putting it off and allowing for it not to happen at all.
And, of course, this is buying into the conservative rhetoric that teacher's unions are teh devil etc.
On to taxes:
What I can say is under the approach I’m taking, if you make $150,000 or less, you will see a tax cut. If you’re making $250,000 a year or more, you’re going to see a modest increase.
Again, buying into conservative rhetoric of tax cuts.
As an American, what’s worth dying for? What’s worth having sacrifice of the American lives for?
OBAMA: Well, obviously American freedom, American lives, America’s national interests.
Clearly a Marxist.
And for a hit at the interviewer:
WARREN: OK. This one is dear to my heart. Most people don’t know that there are 148 million orphans in the world. 148 million kids growing up without mommies and dads. They don’t need to be in an orphanage. They need to be in families. But a lot of families can’t afford to take these kids in.
Hm, if only there were people fighting for their right to start a family of their own that could help with the adoption numbers...
Hmmm...
Oftentimes young women who are caught up in prostitution. So we’ve got to give prosecutors the tools to crack down on these human trafficking networks.
Prostitution and human trafficking are unrelated.
I guess we will have to wait for the next election to get a pro-legalization candidate :p .
I mean, one of the things, if you’re a person of faith like me, I believe that things will work out and we will get the president that we need.
Wow, just like God will defeat Evil for us, he will also make sure that "everything works out" and we will get the right president!
He must of been busy with some other universe for the Bush administration then...
But seriously, how dangerously naive could such a fundamental world view be?
Of course, it might just be pandering in this speech, so I'll have to check if he pulls these lines again later.