Yes.... heat from fires DOES afftect steel

[Sword_Of_Truth]

The BBC reports (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7607473.stm) on efforts by scientists to find materials to build fusion reactors from that won't melt themselves when turned on.

Scientists say an understanding of how the Twin Towers collapsed will help them develop the materials needed to build fusion reactors.

New research shows how steel will fail at high temperatures because of the magnetic properties of the metal.

The New York buildings fell when their steel backbones lost strength in the fires that followed the plane impacts.

"Steels melt at about 1,510C, but lose strength at much lower temperatures," explained Dr Sergei Dudarev, principal scientist at the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority (UKAEA).

At room temperature, the magnetic fields between iron atoms remain regular, but when heated, these fields are altered allowing the atoms to slide past each other, weakening the steel.

"[The steel] becomes very soft. It is not melting but the effect is the same," said Dr Dudarev.

He said blacksmiths had exploited this property for hundreds of years - it allows iron to become pliable at temperatures much lower than its melting point.

The peak in this pliability is at 911.5C, but begins at much lower temperatures, at around 500C - a temperature often reached during building fires.

This is double whammy of irony for the twoofers.

First because of the common idea among twoofers that 9/11 was intended to allow for wars over energy sources. In fact, true understanding of how the Twin Towers failed could lead to a future of clean, cheap and abundant energy, where wars, at least for mere resources (us humans are good at finding many varied excuses to kill each other), are obsolete.

The second whack of the irony stick comes from the fusion research angle... which is supposed to be Steven Jones "real" field of expertise. But he apparently knows jack @#$% about that either.

[beachnut]

The BBC reports (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7607473.stm) on efforts by scientists to find materials to build fusion reactors from that won't melt themselves when turned on.



This is double whammy of irony for the twoofers.

First because of the common idea among twoofers that 9/11 was intended to allow for wars over energy sources. In fact, true understanding of how the Twin Towers failed could lead to a future of clean, cheap and abundant energy, where wars, at least for mere resources (us humans are good at finding many varied excuses to kill each other), are obsolete.

The second whack of the irony stick comes from the fusion research angle... which is supposed to be Steven Jones "real" field of expertise. But he apparently knows jack @#$% about that either.

Steel is strong and fire does not affect it! I stand by this to the...
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/woodbeambentsteel-full.jpg




No buckling in this high-rise building (this high-rise was dismantled due to some reason, I forgot why, but no way related to the fire; trust me) That steel is not really bent or sagging, it is relaxed.
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/onemeridiansag.jpg

would be nice to get a break on the electric bill

[GlennB]

It defies belief, I know, but certain truthers have interpreted this report to mean that giant magnets were involved in the WTC collapses.

[Sizzler]

I call B.S. on this article for inciting 9-11. Um, did they really need the collapses of the WTC 1/2 to drive them to seek better steels?

Well, they state this in the article:

He said blacksmiths had exploited this property for hundreds of years - it allows iron to become pliable at temperatures much lower than its melting point.

So what is up with that?

Certainly they knew steel lost strength at temperatures below melting point before 9/11.

So why the mention of the towers?

Seems silly to me.

[WildCat]

Certainly they knew steel lost strength at temperatures below melting point before 9/11.
Sure, but nobody in the "truth" movement seems to understand this.

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[Sizzler]

Sure, but nobody in the "truth" movement seems to understand this.

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Jones is arguing from a position in which steel did melt (iron microspheres, molten iron), so I don't think the video with him and his partner in crime fit the bill.

[WildCat]

Jones is arguing from a position in which steel did melt (iron microspheres, molten iron), so I don't think the video with him and his partner in crime fit the bill.
No kidding! That's the whole point, isn't it? Remember when you said "Certainly they knew steel lost strength at temperatures below melting point"?

Does Jones understand the steel didn't have to melt? It appears he doesn't.

[Sizzler]

No kidding! That's the whole point, isn't it? Remember when you said "Certainly they knew steel lost strength at temperatures below melting point"?

Does Jones understand the steel didn't have to melt? It appears he doesn't.

But he isn't claiming it has to melt for their to be a collapse. He is aware of the current research by NIST et al.

He does claim, however, that steel melted to form iron microspheres and pools of molten iron. This being a biproduct of a therm.te reaction.

[funk de fino]

Office and household items + fought fire for a few hours = One steel framed buidling destroyed.



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1824447b1cfcfa7614.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10770)

impossible according to a lot of truthers

[Homeland Insurgency]

Yes.... heat from fires DOES afftect steel

Yes but does it affect it and how much?

[funk de fino]

Yes but does it affect it and how much?

See picture in post # 9

[steve s]

Office and household items + fought fire for a few hours = One steel framed buidling destroyed.



http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1824447b1cfcfa7614.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10770)

impossible according to a lot of truthers

Ooh, ooh. I know the troofer answer to that one. It goes "But that wasn't a 110 story skyscraper!"

Troofers can't understand that if a 2 or 3 story building willl collapse from fire, then a high rise will collapse even easier because it has the weight of all those upper floors bearing down on the damaged section.

Steve S.

[gumboot]

I call B.S. on this article for inciting 9-11. Um, did they really need the collapses of the WTC 1/2 to drive them to seek better steels?

Well, they state this in the article:



So what is up with that?

Certainly they knew steel lost strength at temperatures below melting point before 9/11.

So why the mention of the towers?

Seems silly to me.



The relevance is that new research has revealed why steel weakens at such low temperatures. When this was discovered our newspaper simply ran it as a new discovery about the WTC collapses, with no mention of reactors, so I am assuming the original research was initiated specifically in regards to 9/11.

[NYCEMT86]

Yes but does it affect it and how much?

Depending on the type of steel, it can lose 50-60% strength just at 800* F. A 100 foot beam will elongate 10 inches at 1000* F. I did have a chart floating around here, but can't seem to find it.

[alex04]

My client regularly press fits interference-fit steel bushes (from around 8" to 12" OD) into machined bores of castings.

Usually they heat the casting to 250-300C (482-572F), this is usually enough for a press fit. Too much higher temperature than that, and it starts adversely affecting the steel's metallurgical properties. These (relatively small) items are in particularly high load situations so it's quite important that we don't exceed that - breakages from shock loading, and fatigue are common. Anyone here who has seen a large drag-line machine working (which is what these items fit to) will know exactly i'm talking about and why.

I've known other places to actually freeze/cool down bushes so they can actually shrink fit them - they'll just slip straight it - once at room temp they'll return to their normal size and be at an interference fit.

The point is (obviously), you don't need to be anywhere near melting temp to observe the effects of heat on steel. Most boilermakers know this from experience - e.g. heat preparation for welding, stress relief on welded structures etc - they are particularly specific about the temperatures they have to work with. You don't necessarily have to consult an engineer to find this out - go to any engineering shop and speak to the guys that actually work with it.

[DC]

another usage of heat affecting steel is stress relief annealing. which happen at up to 650°C.

[alex04]

another usage of heat affecting steel is stress relief annealing. which happen at up to 650°C.

We do quite alot of that. The heating rates, and charge holding time (once at temp) is important.

[DC]

We do quite alot of that. The heating rates, and charge holding time (once at temp) is important.

but the most immportant part is cooling it down slowly to room temperature, so no new stress will ocure :)

[alex04]

but the most immportant part is cooling it down slowly to room temperature, so no new stress will ocure :)

I guess the standard would vary from company to company, but for us, typically the cooling rate is allowed to be faster that the heating rate - with the material specs i normally deal with anyway.

[DC]

we do it according DIN EN 10052 which require slow cooling down.


ETA: But we dont do it with fire anymore :D

[alex04]

we do it according DIN EN 10052 which require slow cooling down.

Well, our cooling rates are slow - just relatively quick compared to the heating rates. Although once again this depends on the governing material spec, WT & max weld size. Our company has our own (actually quite a large amount of) standards as these suit our specific needs, and the conditions that our equipment works in.

[Astute Perspicuous]

Yes...Fires do AFFTECT steel.

Hmmmm, now if you could please show me this process of afftecting. Is this some new kind of process we are all not aware of?

Lol...you debunkers are all from the same 2 or 3 molds.

[T.A.M.]

I thought I had you on ignore AP. Oh well, you are now.

TAM:)

[Astute Perspicuous]

Yup...stick your head in the sand and ignore what's going on.

Typical...

Everything that is coming to pass we said would happen months and even years ago.

Now, reap the ignorance you sow.

Like I said before, many of you will be standing in the concentration camps still sticking up for the system that has imprisoned you. Tisk Tisk...

Ignorance is bliss :)

[beachnut]

Yup...stick your head in the sand and ignore what's going on.

Typical...

Everything that is coming to pass we said would happen months and even years ago.

Now, reap the ignorance you sow.

Like I said before, many of you will be standing in the concentration camps still sticking up for the system that has imprisoned you. Tisk Tisk...

Ignorance is bliss :)
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll116/tjkb/woodbeambentsteel-full.jpg

Your ideas are like steel in fire, warped!

You can't stop me from exposing your lies. Not a thing you can do to me to stop me exposing your terrorist apologist movement as pure ignorance on 9/11.

What will you do to me as I speak out and expose your false information? Not one thing

[Astute Perspicuous]

Yea...I think that picture is from "The Making of the Golden Arches of McDonalds"

Actually you are partially right, I can not stop you...It's stopping you from "What" is that in which you are misguided about.

I can not stop you from making a complete bullox of yourself, and, what will I do?...Not one thing because you do a fine enough job of discrediting yourself with your B&W pic with no explanation.

It took 7 years of thousands of people digging through millions of images to finally come up with 1 single B&W pic of some steel I beams...gimme a break. There have been millions of fires across the globe and out of those millions of fires you would think there would be "THOUSANDS" of images of melted steel...BUT NO...

[funk de fino]

Yea...I think that picture is from "The Making of the Golden Arches of McDonalds"

Actually you are partially right, I can not stop you...It's stopping you from "What" is that in which you are misguided about.

I can not stop you from making a complete bullox of yourself, and, what will I do?...Not one thing because you do a fine enough job of discrediting yourself with your B&W pic with no explanation.

It took 7 years of thousands of people digging through millions of images to finally come up with 1 single B&W pic of some steel I beams...gimme a break. There have been millions of fires across the globe and out of those millions of fires you would think there would be "THOUSANDS" of images of melted steel...BUT NO...

Post # 9 Mr "Astute"

Not melted though as it does not need to be. Just weakened. But then you knew that.

[Jonnyclueless]

Do twoofers just no know how to read? The angle scientists are looking at now are the magnetic properties being affected by the heat.

AP, what did you predict that is coming to pass? That no one will listen to the 9/11 conspiracy cults and they still won't be able to sell their DVDs?

[beachnut]

Yea...I think that picture is from "The Making of the Golden Arches of McDonalds"

Actually you are partially right, I can not stop you...It's stopping you from "What" is that in which you are misguided about.

I can not stop you from making a complete bullox of yourself, and, what will I do?...Not one thing because you do a fine enough job of discrediting yourself with your B&W pic with no explanation.

It took 7 years of thousands of people digging through millions of images to finally come up with 1 single B&W pic of some steel I beams...gimme a break. There have been millions of fires across the globe and out of those millions of fires you would think there would be "THOUSANDS" of images of melted steel...BUT NO...

After 7 years you got failure and zero evidence. Good job, and when you stick me in your camp for people who understand 9/11, you will still have no clue about 9/11. Is that what you are saying?

7 years and you still have nothing? What have you been doing?



Sorry, I understand fire and steel. You don't.

[dudalb]

And The Twoofers do their usual imitation of the Black Knight from "Monty Python And The Holy Grail".
"Had Enough? Running Away You Cowardly Bastards"?"

[Astute Perspicuous]

Yup...That's why 497 licensed professional Architects and Engineers and hundreds of combined pilots, chemists, physicists, demo experts, EX high ranking military, CIA, and other insiders all say the "Government's Story" is a bunch of bunk.

Oh, let's not forget to mention the politicians like Nader and Ventura...

So...your argument is weak, flimsy, and holds about as much water as a spaghetti strainer.

You come up with a bigger list of qualified persons and then maybe I will listen to your mumbo jumbo...

Face it...you guys lost. We grow and grow...polls PROVE more and more people are waking up by the second...

The government of Japan is questioning things and UN officials too. Talk show hosts and radio jockies...Housewives and construction workers...This whole thing is falling apart for you debunkers.

I think you should be called "Bunkers" because you bunk everything up with your fake science, paid talking heads, and your ignorance to how the system works.

Nobody is buying this "Bailout" bull scam... The whole thing is crashing down around you and in a last ditch effort to scramble and save grace you present to me a B&W picture from God knows where and administer it as proof?....HA HA Freakin Ha.

It's over, you can beat a dead horse all you want but it's not going to get up and win this race for you, bub.

[Jonnyclueless]

Yup...That's why 497 licensed professional Architects and Engineers and hundreds of combined pilots, chemists, physicists, demo experts, EX high ranking military, CIA, and other insiders all say the "Government's Story" is a bunch of bunk.

Oh, let's not forget to mention the politicians like Nader and Ventura...

So...your argument is weak, flimsy, and holds about as much water as a spaghetti strainer.

You come up with a bigger list of qualified persons and then maybe I will listen to your mumbo jumbo...

Face it...you guys lost. We grow and grow...polls PROVE more and more people are waking up by the second...

The government of Japan is questioning things and UN officials too. Talk show hosts and radio jockies...Housewives and construction workers...This whole thing is falling apart for you debunkers.

I think you should be called "Bunkers" because you bunk everything up with your fake science, paid talking heads, and your ignorance to how the system works.

Nobody is buying this "Bailout" bull scam... The whole thing is crashing down around you and in a last ditch effort to scramble and save grace you present to me a B&W picture from God knows where and administer it as proof?....HA HA Freakin Ha.

It's over, you can beat a dead horse all you want but it's not going to get up and win this race for you, bub.

Of look, a 9/11 cultists throwing our generic references of expertise. 497 architects and engineers. Out of that about 3 or 4 who might be qualified to speak on the issue. No pilots with any expertise to address the issue. And not a single person in your group there that has provided a single piece of evidence to back up their claims.

497 architects and engineers and not a single scientific paper to prove their claims? Does that not raise a red flag to you?

Please, with this army of crackpots you have, please show us the evidence they have provided. Or are you just name dropping? Because if you want to go by the quantity of people with degrees in engineering and architecture (ignoring that 99% of the people in your group are not qualified) you're not going to win. Because you can list a couple hundred people and think they somehow trump the millions of experts who think otherwise?

Give it s a rest with the crackpot claims.

[Astute Perspicuous]

We have already "Won"...you're just not smart enough to see that yet.

[Astute Perspicuous]

Go to Google and type 9/11

This is what you get (in order)

September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks

9/11 conspiracy theories - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

YouTube - 9/11
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM

September 11 News.com - September 11, 2001 News Archives -
www.september11news.com

9-11 Research: An Independent Investigation of the 9-11-2001
911research.wtc7.net/

September 11 Digital
911digitalarchive.org

Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004)
www.imdb.com/title/tt0361596

Keith Olbermann Apologizes For RNC's Graphic 9/11 Tribute
www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/05/keith-olbermann-apologize_n_124179.html

The Raw Story | FBI documents contradict 9/11 Commission report Feb 28, 2008
www.rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_documents_contradict_Sept._11_Commission_0228. html

911truth.org ::::: The 9/11 Truth Movement
www.911truth.org

So...we have 5 of the 10 displayed pages that have something to do with conspiracy.

Out of the 5 remaining links you have 1 story about RNC, 1 video tribute to the victims, 1 wiki listing for that day, and 2 archive sites...

There is nothing you can do to stop the truth from shining free no matter how much propaganda you spew...

Polls show that we are winning the information war, and winning big. I can get you the poll numbers if you wish to be embarrassed even more.

[beachnut]

We have already "Won"...you're just not smart enough to see that yet.

You are not rational enough to post on topic? Why?

So far you are acting like a terrorist apologist, on the border of being a terrorist loyalist who has nothing about steel just political tripe.

Did you understand the OP? Do you have something to add beside idiotic SPAM?

[MarekM]

We have already "Won"...you're just not smart enough to see that yet.
Are Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the NWO being prosecuted for treason and murder?

No?

Why not?

[Astute Perspicuous]

IC...when all else fails, call me a terrorist now...:)

Lol...

I remember viewing this "forum" about 2 years ago...Boy has 2 years changed this whole deal...

After not visiting for a while, on return I had noticed that the whole forum had changed...At first I thought it had been converted to a Pro Truther forum, but, then I realized that it had just been infused with truthers. Ha

Anyway...back to steel...

I saw MELTED STEEL...and, if the fires did not burn hot enough to MELT STEEL than what did...and before you go saying it was melted aluminum, aluminum melts silver and takes very hot heat once again to get it to "Glow"

So...

Where did the melted steel in the basement and coming out of the tower come from?

The melted steel fairy?

[alex04]

ETA: But we dont do it with fire anymore :D


:Dlol

[Astute Perspicuous]

I actually don't have time for this right now...was just stopping by, passing through if you will...

The fact of the matter is this place still has it's "bunkers", formally known as debunkers, but, it is a much different place...The opposition is thin, weak, ineffectual...and that is a good thing.

too ta freakin loo

[twinstead]

Misplaced confidence ROCKS!

[T.A.M.]

I am sorry, but someone reposted this nonsense, and it is too silly not to mock.

AP Said:

Yup...That's why 497 licensed professional Architects and Engineers and hundreds of combined pilots, chemists, physicists, demo experts, EX high ranking military, CIA, and other insiders all say the "Government's Story" is a bunch of bunk.

Oh, let's not forget to mention the politicians like Nader and Ventura...

So...your argument is weak, flimsy, and holds about as much water as a spaghetti strainer.

You come up with a bigger list of qualified persons and then maybe I will listen to your mumbo jumbo...

Face it...you guys lost. We grow and grow...polls PROVE more and more people are waking up by the second...

The government of Japan is questioning things and UN officials too. Talk show hosts and radio jockies...Housewives and construction workers...This whole thing is falling apart for you debunkers.

I think you should be called "Bunkers" because you bunk everything up with your fake science, paid talking heads, and your ignorance to how the system works.

Nobody is buying this "Bailout" bull scam... The whole thing is crashing down around you and in a last ditch effort to scramble and save grace you present to me a B&W picture from God knows where and administer it as proof?....HA HA Freakin Ha.

It's over, you can beat a dead horse all you want but it's not going to get up and win this race for you, bub.

1. The list of architects, scientists, engineers, etc... is only a minute fragment of the number of such professionals in those areas. At this rate (497 over 7 years) I will be long dead before you even get 1% of the professionals in a given field on your side.

2. Nader and Ventura BARELY fall under the umbrella of "politician". If these are your political heroes, god help you.

3. your poll rubbish is 2 years old, it is rubbish. Your group is a lost cause, and from your tone and demeanor, you deserve to be in such a lame group of retards.

4. The rest of your mentally deprived diatribe is complete and utter rhetorical nonsense.

It is now clear why I put you on ignore.

TAM:)

[HyJinX]

We have already "Won"...you're just not smart enough to see that yet.

What, exactly, did you "win" again?

[beachnut]

I actually don't have time for this right now...was just stopping by, passing through if you will...

The fact of the matter is this place still has it's "bunkers", formally known as debunkers, but, it is a much different place...The opposition is thin, weak, ineffectual...and that is a good thing.

too ta freakin loo
7 years, evidence and you, still total strangers.

Stop in when you have some evidence; try to be closer on topic than several light-years.

Do you sign a purity pack not to have evidence when you become a terrorist apologist?

[Jonnyclueless]

I actually don't have time for this right now...was just stopping by, passing through if you will...

The fact of the matter is this place still has it's "bunkers", formally known as debunkers, but, it is a much different place...The opposition is thin, weak, ineffectual...and that is a good thing.

too ta freakin loo

And we don't have time for this kind of idiocy.


You have a couple of crackpot groups who have no qualifications but go on the pretense that they do (which is a lie). And not a single one of them has presented any real evidence to back their claims.

You have a list of conspiracy tabloids and youtube. None of which offer any evidence to back their claims.

You have claim that the polls show most people agree with you. That's a flat out lie because the polls show just the opposite of that. you kids can't even get people to show up to your rallies. You can't get anyone to show up to your movie releases, and you can't get anyone to buy your DVDs.

The 9/11 cult movement is barely hanging on by a thread and the web traffic to the conspiracy tabloids is almost unreadable even compared to the most mundane of topics such as tin foil.

Yet you expect people to be dumb enough to believe it's growing? Kid, you're gonna need a lot more than empty rhetoric. While I am sure it might impress the high school girls, it doesn't fly in the scientific community.

[beachnut]

What, exactly, did you "win" again?
They won the 100 percent evidence free, 9/11 truth movement purity award, 7 years evidence free. You must also suspend rational thought, and stop thinking for themselves to win.
They have to make drive by posts while off meds, off topic, avoid any tech talk, or discussion on steel properties.

[Astute Perspicuous]

LOL...It works everytime. You people are so easy.

[Grizzly Bear]

LOL...It works everytime. You people are so easy.

We love you too... continue the entertainment :)

Ah what the hell I'll repond to your post too... it kills some boredom:

Yup...That's why 497 licensed professional Architects and Engineers and hundreds of combined pilots, chemists, physicists, demo experts, EX high ranking military, CIA, and other insiders all say the "Government's Story" is a bunch of bunk.

Oh, let's not forget to mention the politicians like Nader and Ventura...

So...your argument is weak, flimsy, and holds about as much water as a spaghetti strainer.

If they support your claims then good for you, but I'd have expected something a bit more substantial than mere appeals to authority to substantiate the viability of your claim :)


Face it...you guys lost. We grow and grow...polls PROVE more and more people are waking up by the second...
I'm not quite sure where this whole thing became a game to you guys, but then again, I'm equally unsure where an appeal to popularity made any particularly strong statement anywhere, especially for a 2 year-old pole... Poll answers are opinion-based, not fact based, the majority answers are derived from the number of answers given to any set of opinions, and little more.

The government of Japan is questioning things and UN officials too.
Oh you mean there's now more than one politician in Japan talking about a conspiracy?

Talk show hosts and radio jockies...
Entertaining perhaps but whoooh!!! Do they scream! I imagine one of these days I'll go deaf from it, I swear...

Housewives and construction workers...This whole thing is falling apart for you debunkers.
China would be the real kicker, if they wanted fame and glory from exposing the United States over this large a conspiracy they could devastate our economy with all the debt we owe them :)

fake science
Hmmm... exploding thermite? TM -- Richard Gage, Steven Jones et al.

Card board box representations of steel buildings? TM

Dropping 20-pound cynderblocks fro a height of 12 ft? TM

oooooooookaaaaaaaaaayyy.... They're role models of true science TM

paid talking heads
I heard Dylan Avery was planning on sending donations to families of the fallen from DVD sales. How's that project of his going?

How are DVD sales coming along for PFT?

What about T-shirt sales from AE911?


and your ignorance to how the system works.
On which subject? Engineering? Architecture? Politics? Physics? A culmination of the preceding and other fields? Excuse me for not being much of a political debater, but as specialized working fields go, see the response to "fake science"


Any... nice derail...

[Astute Perspicuous]

How many 9/11 truthers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Answer:
None...That's what we have people like you for.

[Jonnyclueless]

Does mom know you're using the computer?

[twinstead]

Misplaced confidence laced with comical arrogance ROCKS!

[twinstead]

How many 9/11 truthers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Answer:
None...That's what we have people like you for.

Oh. I thought you'd actually ANSWER some of the responses to your little ill-conceived diatribe. My bad.

[Grizzly Bear]

How many 9/11 truthers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
How does the saying go? Fools will be fools? Unfortunate you've decided not to take the argument seriously after I attempted to respond politely. Oh well... guess I expected too much. Later...

[doobiedoright]

IC...when all else fails, call me a terrorist now...:)

Lol...

I remember viewing this "forum" about 2 years ago...Boy has 2 years changed this whole deal...

After not visiting for a while, on return I had noticed that the whole forum had changed...At first I thought it had been converted to a Pro Truther forum, but, then I realized that it had just been infused with truthers. Ha

Anyway...back to steel...

I saw MELTED STEEL...and, if the fires did not burn hot enough to MELT STEEL than what did...and before you go saying it was melted aluminum, aluminum melts silver and takes very hot heat once again to get it to "Glow"

So...

Where did the melted steel in the basement and coming out of the tower come from?

The melted steel fairy?


I'm sorry as I read your gibberish I noticed you stated melted steel as fact.Funny I dont see you backing it up the with any evidence!
Care to try?
I know your not going to use the faked picture of glowing stuff that turned out to be a light!

[patchbunny]

How many 9/11 truthers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Answer:
None...That's what we have people like you for.

If installing a light bulb is too complicated for you, why do you think you know more about engineering than licensed engineers?

[cyclonic]

How many 9/11 truthers does it take to screw in a light bulb?.

answer: one to hold the bulb, 497AE911truth members to pick up the trailer home and go around and around with alex jones bullhorning instructions.

[DC]

answer: one to hold the bulb, 497AE911truth members to pick up the trailer home and go around and around with alex jones bullhorning instructions.

LOL

that is atleast very funny lol

[Dave Rogers]

We have already "Won"...you're just not smart enough to see that yet.

First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they go back to ignoring you.
Then you pretend you've won.

Dave

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Yes...Fires do AFFTECT steel.

Hmmmm, now if you could please show me this process of afftecting. Is this some new kind of process we are all not aware of?

Lol...you debunkers are all from the same 2 or 3 molds.

Wow... is that the best you've got? My (admittedly) sloppy typing?

I accept your concession of defeat. :p

[Tolls]

Sherman's Bowties anyone? (http://www.civilwarhome.com/bowties.htm)