HI and Interpol.

[stateofgrace]

Based on this post

Interpol? Yeah right. Maybe they'll win the war on terror before the smurfs do.

From this thread

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=123971&page=6


Rather than continue to derail the thread I would like to start a new thread and allow HI to be given the opportunity to explain what he is doing to bring to justice those responsible for 911.

Here is a very old thread I started; I never received a satisfactory answer to my questions.

Ok I am fed up with seeing remarks like this from truthers



So, my question is, are you (as americans?) happy with a report into the death of 3000 of your fellow countrymen that is vehemently dismissed by many of its progenitors? Are you happy with this?


Riiight... and why is the 911 inside job something that only engineers should be able to decipher?


I'm making you head sheep. You get a special bell. Well done!

Eyes on the sheep dip everyone!


It is a blatantly bungled inside job.

911 was an inside job



So everybody that does not buy into the theory that 911 is so blatantly an inside job is a sheep? Right? Including these people



Before 9/11, fewer than 30 countries were committed to sharing information about the identities of suspected terrorists (http://www.interpol.int/Public/Terrorism/default.asp). Since 9/11, police agencies from more than 100 countries have worked together to identify over 10,000 suspected terrorists. This is nearly five times more than were known before 9/11. These terrorist suspects are now listed in INTERPOL's larger database (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/corefunctions/databases.asp) of suspected criminals of all types. This is only one part of a secure global police communication system (http://www.interpol.int/Public/NCB/I247/default.asp) -- which did not exist before 9/11.


Since that day, police have conducted more than a million searches in this database, generating over 130,000 hits. Linking suspects to different types of crime is one of the most effective ways of discovering information that can help police disrupt potential terrorist plots. Terrorists connect with other international criminals in obtaining and transporting the material, funding, false passports, information and other devices they need for attacks. Finding these connections allSince 9/11, as more countries' police agencies have shared more information internationally, more international criminals have been identified and arrested, and more terrorist plots have been disrupted. Between 9/11 and today, the number of wanted persons annually sought for arrest through INTERPOL has more than doubled (to over 16,000 in 2005). The number of annual arrests of criminals wanted internationally has more than tripled (to over 3,000 in 2005). In total, more than 14,000 international criminals have been arrested in the last five years.


LYON, France (CNN) -- Interpol issued an arrest warrant Tuesday for an Egyptian-born surgeon reported to be Osama bin Laden's deputy, the international police organization said in a statement.
Interpol said it was posting the notice, the equivalent of an all-points bulletin, at the request of Egyptian police for Aiman al Zawahri, a leader of the al Jihad terrorist group.



September 11 has also brought about a refocusing of police duties and a re-alignment between federal and local policing. Federal agencies now devote more attention than ever before on counter-terrorist measures. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has some 4,000 working on terrorism


Counter-terrorist policing activities have been conducted in many countries, especially in Europe. In Italy, some 600 agents have been assigned to investigate the money trail of the al-Qaeda network. In November 2001, it was announced that foreign intelligence and police agencies in some 50 countries had arrested no less than 360 suspects with connections to the al-Qaeda network. Of these 360 arrests abroad, about 100 took place in Europe, the same number in the Middle East, 30 in Latin America, and 20 in Africa


Since Sept. 11, law enforcement agencies in 120 countries have joined in an unprecedented effort to track down alleged terrorists -- an effort that amounts to a global civilian front in the war.
This international police work stands in sharp contrast to earlier failed attempts to fight crime globally.



After the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon:


Hundreds of terrorist suspects were arrested or indicted by authorities in 24 countries, according to U.S. State Department sources. Nations that made arrests include Sudan and Syria, both of which have been identified by the State Department as sponsors of terrorist organizations.
The latest example: German authorities' arrest yesterday of Mounir El Motassadeq, suspected of funneling money to the Sept. 11 hijackers while they were learning to fly planes in the United States.
Law enforcement agencies around the world seized $56 million in suspected terrorist assets and froze accounts containing millions more, the Treasury Department says. Of the money seized, more than half -- $29 million --was taken by authorities outside the United States.
Even nations that have been zealous guardians of banking secrecy such as the Bahamas and Switzerland have played critical roles in the attempt to ferret out terrorists and their funds.


This is called the international response and I have quoted from a few of the thousands of hits I got when I goggled Interpol and 911.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=interpol+investigate+sept+11+attack s&meta (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=interpol+investigate+sept+11+attacks&meta)=

So why does the international intelligence agencies not agree with the truthers? Are they sheep? Are Interpol in on it ? Does the US run them all ?

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers?
Why do they not get in touch with Interpol and share their evidence?


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89666


HI, the floor is yours.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Based on this post



From this thread

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=123971&page=6


Rather than continue to derail the thread I would like to start a new thread and allow HI to be given the opportunity to explain what he is doing to bring to justice those responsible for 911.

Here is a very old thread I started; I never received a satisfactory answer to my questions.


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89666


HI, the floor is yours.

No Skippy. The floor is yours just as it was in the other thread.

How they were positively identified? The hijackers?

It shouldn’t take a lot of words.

[stateofgrace]

No Skippy. The floor is yours just as it was in the other thread.

How they were positively identified? The hijackers?

It shouldn’t take a lot of words.

I take it, rather than actually debate you wish to simply dodge and derail every thread you post in, right?

My opening post stands, address it or leave.

[Homeland Insurgency]

I take it, rather than actually debate you wish to simply dodge and derail every thread you post in, right?

My opening post stands, adress it or leave.

Just tell me and tell everyone here watching just how they were positively identified.

The floor is yours.

[stateofgrace]

Just tell me and tell everyone here watching just how they were positively identified.

The floor is yours.

Stop derailing this thread, you called out Interpol and the International response.

Debate, address my OP, or leave,the choice is yours.

[JimBenArm]

I don't care how they were identified. I want to hear your answer to the OP. If you actually have one.

[Homeland Insurgency]

What am I doing to bring justice to those responsible for 9/11?

Asking for a real investigation. What are you doing? Apologizing for the whitewash?

[JimBenArm]

What am I doing to bring justice to those responsible for 9/11?

Asking for a real investigation. What are you doing? Apologizing for the whitewash?
So, who have you asked? What did they say?

[Homeland Insurgency]

So, who have you asked? What did they say?

Asking? I'm confronting those apologizing for it but they keep running away. How come?

[JimBenArm]

Asking? I'm confronting those apologizing for it but they keep running away. How come?
You said you asked for a new investigation. Did you lie?

[stateofgrace]

What am I doing to bring justice to those responsible for 9/11?

Asking for a real investigation. What are you doing? Apologizing for the whitewash?



What you are NOT doing is debating. You are NOT addressing my OP. You are not doing anything other than dismissing everything and everybody that actually takes the time to debate you.

I have gone out of my way to give you the opportunity to explain why anybody should dismiss the international response; I have gone out of my way to show that this response was massive and unanimous. You on the other hand have simply dismissed it all; you have dismissed it in favour of accusing your fellow countrymen of mass murder. You do so with absolutely zero evidence. You are doing nothing other dismissing all the effort that as taken place to bring to justice all those involved. You are doing nothing, other than posting on internet forums and pretending that you see something that we all don't see.

160 countries adopted the resolution I quoted to you, they made a solemn pledge to bring to justice all those involved in this crime. This you dismiss, you dismiss it for reasons that are known only to yourself.

Shame on you. You was given the oportunity to deabte, to actaully swap opinions but you dismised it. As such your opinions and your posts are no longer welcome in this thread or any other thread, I choose to post in.

Good day, sir.

[Homeland Insurgency]

What you are NOT doing is debating. You are NOT addressing my OP. You are not doing anything than dismissing everything and everybody that actually takes the time to debate you.

I have actually gone out of my way to give you the opportunity to explain why anybody should dismiss the international response; I have gone out of my way to show that this response was massive and unanimous. You on the other hand have simply dismissed it all; you have dismissed it in favour of accusing your fellow countrymen of mass murder. You do so with absolutely zero evidence. You are doing nothing other dismissing all the effort that as taken place to bring to justice all those involved. You are doing nothing, other than posting on internet forums and pretending that you see something that we all don't see.

160 countries adopted the resolution I quoted to you, they made a solemn pledge to bring to justice all those involved in this crime. This you dismiss, you dismiss it for reasons that are known only to yourself.

Shame on you. Your opinions and your posts are no longer welcome in this thread or any other thread, I choose to post in.

Good day, sir.



Boo Hoo

I'm sorry I know more then you.

[JimBenArm]

Boo Hoo

I'm sorry I know more then you.
Really? So why don't you try to educate us? Or is being rude all you are capable of?

ETA: The word you were looking for is "than" not "then". Just to help your education.

[stateofgrace]

Boo Hoo

I'm sorry I know more then you.

Unfortunately you have failed, miserably, to show you do.

[SDC]

HI is clearly a graduate of the LastChild School of Debate. NB: I am not making a sock accusation. I am stating that HI does nothing to advance any argument, and relies chiefly on playground insults as his/ her method. A waste of time.

ETA: and as part of that, he/ she regards others leaving in disgust at his/ her tactic as a victory. Again, what a waste.

[CHF]

What am I doing to bring justice to those responsible for 9/11?

Asking for a real investigation.

Unfortunately, a new investigation is unlikely to occur because you asked for one on an internet message board.

Perhaps you should ask somewhere else?

Try taking your evidence to the Hague, for example.

[beachnut]

What am I doing to bring justice to those responsible for 9/11?

Asking for a real investigation. What are you doing? Apologizing for the whitewash?
You don't understand the many investigation done already; a new investigation is a waste; you will not understand it. You are not much of a terrorist apologist, but that is par for the truth movement.

Take your zero evidence and stop spaming threads with the massive evidence.

[Quad4_72]

Just tell me and tell everyone here watching just how they were positively identified.

The floor is yours.

There is a thread already started for this question. In that thread, I gave you multiple resources that provide you with all of the information you need to answer your questions about the hijackers. You chose to ignore the information provided. So why the HELL should anyone else provide you with information if you are going to choose to ignore it?

Anyways, stay on the topic of the OP. Your attempt to derail threads has been noted.

[Quad4_72]

Boo Hoo

I'm sorry I know more then you.

You made this assertion to me as well. I think the real question here is, how old are you kid? Grown ups don't go around saying "I know more than you do!" Grow up and get some evidence.

[johnny karate]

This is called the international response and I have quoted from a few of the thousands of hits I got when I goggled Interpol and 911.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=interpol+investigate+sept+11+attack s&meta=

So why does the international intelligence agencies not agree with the truthers? Are they sheep? Are Interpol in on it ? Does the US run them all ?

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers?
Why do they not get in touch with Interpol and share their evidence?

Bump for Homeland Insurgency.

[Quad4_72]

Asking? I'm confronting those apologizing for it but they keep running away. How come?

So let me get this straight. Your plan to get a new investigation is to post nonsense on internet forums? Please tell me you have a better plan than that. Or is your mom not letting you leave your house and that's why you are doing NOTHING (Along with the rest of the psychos).

[LashL]

This is called the international response and I have quoted from a few of the thousands of hits I got when I goggled Interpol and 911.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...sept+11+attack (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=interpol+investigate+sept+11+attack) s&meta=

So why does the international intelligence agencies not agree with the truthers? Are they sheep? Are Interpol in on it ? Does the US run them all ?

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers?
Why do they not get in touch with Interpol and share their evidence?

Bump for Homeland Insurgency.


Well, johnnykarate, since HI has not responded to your polite bump, and since stateofgrace's point is an excellent one that deserves a legitimate response, I'll try the less polite "bicycle-nudge-and-then-run-over-your-head" bump for Homeland Insurgency this time.

:bike:

Psst. Homeland Insurgency, it appears that you have avoided and run away from providing a legitimate response to the posts above. If this is so - as it appears to be - it would be entirely reasonable for readers to conclude that you're just blowing smoke out of your nether regions with your non-responsive posts (just like all of the other conspiracy fantasists who have gone before you here). So, what say you?

[chillzero]

Please keep the thread civil, and on topic. HI - this is not about DNA.

To clarify, the OP questions that should be addressed are:
So why does the international intelligence agencies not agree with the truthers? Are they sheep? Are Interpol in on it ? Does the US run them all ?

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers?
Why do they not get in touch with Interpol and share their evidence?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Bump for Homeland Insurgency.

What evidence did the international community have access to exactly?

[Homeland Insurgency]

What you are NOT doing is debating. You are NOT addressing my OP. You are not doing anything other than dismissing everything and everybody that actually takes the time to debate you.

I have gone out of my way to give you the opportunity to explain why anybody should dismiss the international response; I have gone out of my way to show that this response was massive and unanimous. You on the other hand have simply dismissed it all; you have dismissed it in favour of accusing your fellow countrymen of mass murder. You do so with absolutely zero evidence. You are doing nothing other dismissing all the effort that as taken place to bring to justice all those involved. You are doing nothing, other than posting on internet forums and pretending that you see something that we all don't see.

160 countries adopted the resolution I quoted to you, they made a solemn pledge to bring to justice all those involved in this crime. This you dismiss, you dismiss it for reasons that are known only to yourself.

Shame on you. You was given the oportunity to deabte, to actaully swap opinions but you dismised it. As such your opinions and your posts are no longer welcome in this thread or any other thread, I choose to post in.

Good day, sir.



Who did I accuse of mass murder?

[Homeland Insurgency]

You said you asked for a new investigation. Did you lie?

I've written some letters and signed some petitions among other things. Edited to remove inappropriate remark.

Do not post personal attacks.

[Elizabeth I]

I've written some letters and signed some petitions among other things.

Letters to whom? To your grandmother doesn't count.

[johnny karate]

What evidence did the international community have access to exactly?


These were the questions put to you:
So why does the international intelligence agencies not agree with the truthers? Are they sheep? Are Interpol in on it ? Does the US run them all ?

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers?
Why do they not get in touch with Interpol and share their evidence?


What special access to evidence does the international community need to come to the same conclusions you have?

Interpol and other foreign intelligence agencies at the very least have the same access to evidence that Truthers proclaiming "Inside job!" and "We need a new investigation!" do.

So why have none of them aligned themselves with you?

[Homeland Insurgency]

These were the questions put to you:



What special access to evidence does the international community need to come to the same conclusions you have?

Interpol and other foreign intelligence agencies at the very least have the same access to evidence that Truthers proclaiming "Inside job!" and "We need a new investigation!" do.

So why have none of them aligned themselves with you?


What's my conclusion?

[johnny karate]

What's my conclusion?

That something other than the "official version" took place on 9/11 and a new investigation is required to determine what that was.

Back on point, this sentiment has not been expressed by Interpol or any foreign intelligence agency. Why?

[stateofgrace]

What evidence did the international community have access to exactly?

Who did I accuse of mass murder?

I've written some letters and signed some petitions among other things. What have you ever done besides bend over?

What's my conclusion?

So many questions and each one designed to avoid addressing the topic of the thread.

Is there any chance you will actually address, answer or even debate the OP? Or do you intend to simply avoid it and once again derail yet another thread you post in ?

[Homeland Insurgency]

So many questions and each one designed to avoid addressing the topic of the thread.

Is there any chance you will actually address, answer or even debate the OP? Or do you intend to simply avoid it and once again derail yet another thread you post in ?

Hey stateofgrace? Who did I accuse of mass murder? Is there any chance you will back up your accusations?

[Homeland Insurgency]

That something other than the "official version" took place on 9/11 and a new investigation is required to determine what that was.

Back on point, this sentiment has not been expressed by Interpol or any foreign intelligence agency. Why?

So you believe there is an "official version"? What is that to you?

Again what evidence has Interpol or any foreign intelligence agency had access to?

[doobiedoright]

What's my conclusion?

No one seems to know so why dont you spill the beans?

[johnny karate]

Again what evidence has Interpol or any foreign intelligence agency had access to?


Interpol and other foreign intelligence agencies at the very least have the same access to evidence that Truthers proclaiming "Inside job!" and "We need a new investigation!" do.

So why have none of them aligned themselves with you?

..

[Homeland Insurgency]

No one seems to know so why dont you spill the beans?

They don't? So why are they asserting what I claim? Oh yeah... they're debunkers.

Never mind.

[Homeland Insurgency]

..

Why have they not aligned themselves with me and what?

[uruk]

Wow you seem to have chronic in ability to answer questions. Afraid of something there HI?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Wow you seem to have chronic in ability to answer questions. Afraid of something there HI?

No.

Anything else you need to know? How about how to spell inability? You're welcome.

[Wildy]

So if you don't have an inability to answer questions, then why aren't you answering them?

Oh, and picking on somebody's spelling skills is rather pathetic you know.

[Homeland Insurgency]

So if you don't have an inability to answer questions, then why aren't you answering them?

What haven't I answered? Got a question?

Oh, and picking on somebody's spelling skills is rather pathetic you know.

Yes if that's all they did and all I did.

[uruk]

No.

Anything else you need to know? How about how to spell inability? You're welcome.

And what does spelling have to do with the OP? Perhaps more evasion and avoidance?
More opportunity to cast aspersions rather than facts or real answers?

[Homeland Insurgency]

And what does spelling have to do with the OP? Perhaps more evasion and avoidance?
More opportunity to cast aspersions rather than facts or real answers?

A real answer to what? You're not afraid to ask are you?

[doobiedoright]

They don't? So why are they asserting what I claim? Oh yeah... they're debunkers.

Never mind.


Surrender noted!

[Homeland Insurgency]

Surrender noted!

You should have highlighted that in white. I mean if you're going to surrender and all.

Unless you have something to ask. Don't run away. It looks so cowardly.

I promise I'll be gentle.

[johnny karate]

Why have they not aligned themselves with me and what?

Allow me to rephrase the question to help you with your confusion.

Interpol and other foreign intelligence agencies at the very least have the same access to evidence that Truthers proclaiming "Inside job!" and "We need a new investigation!" do.

So why have none of them aligned themselves with the Truth Movement?

[Wildy]

What haven't I answered? Got a question?

Well I don't have a question at the moment. Maybe you should start answering the OP and the other questions in this thread before you are buried in questions.

[uruk]

A real answer to what? You're not afraid to ask are you? Well, you seem very afraid to answer anything. At all.

[uruk]

You should have highlighted that in white. I mean if you're going to surrender and all.

Unless you have something to ask. Don't run away. It looks so cowardly.

I promise I'll be gentle.

Wow. The sixth grade called. They want thier schoolyard debate tatics back.

Man up buddy. I don't think you are giving the impression of yourself that you think you are.

[TjW]

What evidence did the international community have access to exactly?

Well, presumably the intelligence agencies have internet access. So they certainly had access to at least the same information that led twoofers to conclude that 9/11 was done by the U.S. government.

Yet even countries unfriendly to the U.S., or who could gain politically from embarrassing the Bush administration, did not reach that conclusion.

Do foreign intelligence agencies have less access to qualified experts, or a smaller budget, than the twoof movement?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Well, presumably the intelligence agencies have internet access. So they certainly had access to at least the same information that led twoofers to conclude that 9/11 was done by the U.S. government.

Yet even countries unfriendly to the U.S., or who could gain politically from embarrassing the Bush administration, did not reach that conclusion.

Do foreign intelligence agencies have less access to qualified experts, or a smaller budget, than the twoof movement?

sigh...

One more time... what's my conclusion?

And if anyone you claim there internationally or otherwise came to a conclusion then on what evidence was it based? The internet? Or don't you need to know before you come to your conclusions?

[johnny karate]

And if anyone you claim there internationally or otherwise came to a conclusion then on what evidence was it based? The internet? Or don't you need to know before you come to your conclusions?

One more time indeed. You keep asking this question even though it's been answered. Several times.

Interpol and foreign intelligence agencies have access to and could use the exact same evidence and information as those in the Truth Movement who are already proclaiming an inside job and demanding a new investigation. And yet they haven't.

Your constant refusal to address the OP and play these silly games is really making it seem like you're not too interested in genuine discussion to determine the truth, but rather an intellectually dishonest troll who knows he's defending an untenable position.

Which would be shocking.

[Wildy]

what's my conclusion?

Good question. What is your conclusion?

And how exactly do you expect others to know it for you?

[stateofgrace]

Hey stateofgrace? Who did I accuse of mass murder? Is there any chance you will back up your accusations?

Another very good question HI. Who exactly are you accusing of mass murder?

I say your fellow countrymen but of course you could correct me and tell us who exactly you are accusing of carrying out mass murder.

Equally so you could actually stay on topic and try and show us all that you are worth responding to.

[TjW]

sigh...

One more time... what's my conclusion?

And if anyone you claim there internationally or otherwise came to a conclusion then on what evidence was it based? The internet? Or don't you need to know before you come to your conclusions?

Well, I have to do a lot of presuming here, because you seem to dodge and weave when asked straightforward questions. But here goes:

Presumably, you have come to the conclusion that another, or more investigation is needed. If this is not true, I have no idea why you would be so argumentative.

Now, if your conclusion is correct, you seem to have had access to enough information to conclude another, or more investigation is needed. A competent foreign intelligence service (FIS) should have come to this conclusion as well.

The FIS, of course, would have access to resources that you would likely not. Now, by resources, I don't mean agents in the U.S. to ferret out secret information of a closely held conspiracy, I mean qualified experts in the fields necessary to evaluate information.

There are many FIS that would have this level of competence. Some of them, of course, might be friendly to the U.S., or the Bush administration, and keep quiet.

There are governments though, that would gain politically from publicly embarrassing the Bush administration. Venezuela and N. Korea spring to mind.

I'd like to point out that for the purpose of political embarrassment, it is not required that the FIS discover proof of the actual perpetrators, or even what really happened.
All they have to do is present independently verifiable information of a plausible alternate to the consensus narrative. The alternate narrative, though, is crucial.

Depending on how broad you believe the conspiracy to be, it would be presented to foreign or the U.S. mainstream media. A complete alternate narrative with independently verifiable evidence implicating the U.S. government would certainly be news.

Considered as a weapon, it would do a lot of damage, both inside the U.S., and to its world reputation. It carries virtually no risk of retaliation.

Yet in seven years, no enemy of the U.S. has used it.
Are we really that popular?

[Homeland Insurgency]

One more time indeed. You keep asking this question even though it's been answered. Several times.

Interpol and foreign intelligence agencies have access to and could use the exact same evidence and information as those in the Truth Movement who are already proclaiming an inside job and demanding a new investigation. And yet they haven't.

Your constant refusal to address the OP and play these silly games is really making it seem like you're not too interested in genuine discussion to determine the truth, but rather an intellectually dishonest troll who knows he's defending an untenable position.

Which would be shocking.

Note the bolded.

The international community according to your bare assertion came to the conclusion there was nothing more to 9/11 then what the official version claims, and they came to this conclusion using the same thing you claim truthers have used.

The internet.

And their conclusion based on the internet was good enough for you? Why?

Thank you.

BTW I never claimed to know 9/11 was an inside job. There hasn't been enough of an investigation to come to a conclusion. That's the point. That's what makes you angry.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Good question. What is your conclusion?

And how exactly do you expect others to know it for you?

The truth movement and the debunkers don't know what happened on 9/11. The debunkers just pretend they do.

[beachnut]

The truth movement and the debunkers don't know what happened on 9/11. The debunkers just pretend they do.

Half right, and still you display no signs of knowledge on 9/11.

At least you are not pretending, you are void of evidence.

[twinstead]

BTW I never claimed to know 9/11 was an inside job. There hasn't been enough of an investigation to come to a conclusion. That's the point. That's what makes you angry.

No, what makes us angry is there HAS been enough of an investigation--from agencies around the world--to come to a conclusion, but you just stubbornly don't accept it.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Well, I have to do a lot of presuming here, because you seem to dodge and weave when asked straightforward questions. But here goes:

Presumably, you have come to the conclusion that another, or more investigation is needed. If this is not true, I have no idea why you would be so argumentative.

Now, if your conclusion is correct, you seem to have had access to enough information to conclude another, or more investigation is needed. A competent foreign intelligence service (FIS) should have come to this conclusion as well.

Based on what evidence that they had access to? That's a straight forward question BTW.

The FIS, of course, would have access to resources that you would likely not. Now, by resources, I don't mean agents in the U.S. to ferret out secret information of a closely held conspiracy, I mean qualified experts in the fields necessary to evaluate information.

Name exactly what they evaluated. Don't assume.

There are many FIS that would have this level of competence. Some of them, of course, might be friendly to the U.S., or the Bush administration, and keep quiet.

There are governments though, that would gain politically from publicly embarrassing the Bush administration. Venezuela and N. Korea spring to mind.

Has there been no foreign officials claiming doubts about 9/11? Is there nothing N Korea needs from the US? If there weren't would it prove something? Try harder.

I'd like to point out that for the purpose of political embarrassment, it is not required that the FIS discover proof of the actual perpetrators, or even what really happened.
All they have to do is present independently verifiable information of a plausible alternate to the consensus narrative. The alternate narrative, though, is crucial.

Based on what evidence that they had access to. Even it a FIS had evidence of something going on in America prior to 9/11 to come forth with said evidence could also expose how they came to such evidence. That wouldn't be very intelligent would it?

Depending on how broad you believe the conspiracy to be, it would be presented to foreign or the U.S. mainstream media. A complete alternate narrative with independently verifiable evidence implicating the U.S. government would certainly be news.

Again what evidence do they have access to and if they did could they admit it officially? I don't have a conspiracy. You have one if you believe in 19 conspirators. And you don't have a complete narrative either. Live up to your own standards.

Considered as a weapon, it would do a lot of damage, both inside the U.S., and to its world reputation. It carries virtually no risk of retaliation.

There is plenty of doubt worldwide about 9/11. There is also plenty of distrust towards America and it's government.

Yet in seven years, no enemy of the U.S. has used it.
Are we really that popular?

That's not true. Would you call Iran a friend of the US? Is there not officials from countries like Japan or Italy or Germany who have expressed doubts about 9/11? Most of those countries are suppose to be our friends. How much trust worldwide is there of America right now? Do you live under a rock?

[Homeland Insurgency]

No, what makes us angry is there HAS been enough of an investigation--from agencies around the world--to come to a conclusion, but you just stubbornly don't accept it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/opinion/02kean.html?ref=opinion

As a legal matter, it is not up to us to examine the C.I.A.’s failure to disclose the existence of these tapes. That is for others. What we do know is that government officials decided not to inform a lawfully constituted body, created by Congress and the president, to investigate one the greatest tragedies to confront this country. We call that obstruction.

Thomas H. Kean and Lee H. Hamilton served as chairman and vice chairman, respectively, of the 9/11 commission.

[johnny karate]

The international community according to your bare assertion came to the conclusion there was nothing more to 9/11 then what the official version claims, and they came to this conclusion using the same thing you claim truthers have used.

Please try to pay attention to the words I'm using because I don't know any simpler ones that would possibly make this any easier for you to comprehend.

1) Interpol nor any other foreign intelligence agency on the planet has called for a new investigation into the events or 9/11, nor expressed any doubts or suspicions of the official version.

2)They have access to the exact same evidence and information as others who have already expressed doubts and suspicions, and subsequently called for a new investigation.

What is your explanation for point 1?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Please try to pay attention to the words I'm using because I don't know any simpler ones that would possibly make this any easier for you to comprehend.

1) Interpol nor any other foreign intelligence agency on the planet has called for a new investigation into the events or 9/11, nor expressed any doubts or suspicions of the official version.

2)They have access to the exact same evidence and information as others who have already expressed doubts and suspicions, and subsequently called for a new investigation.

What is your explanation for point 1?

What same evidence? Same as who? Isn't the doubt based on lack of evidence produced? Do you have something backwards johnny?

[johnny karate]

What same evidence?

The same evidence or information to which any other person proclaiming an inside job or demanding a new investigation has access.

What this particular evidence or information is, I can't say, because I'm not those people and I don't know what lead them to their conclusions.

The point is, there are people out there proclaiming inside job and/or demanding a new investigation. We call them Truthers. Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies among their numbers?

[Homeland Insurgency]

The same evidence or information to which any other person proclaiming an inside job or demanding a new investigation has access.

What this particular evidence or information is, I can't say, because I'm not those people and I don't know what lead them to their conclusions.

The point is, there are people out there proclaiming inside job and/or demanding a new investigation. We call them Truthers. Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies among their numbers?

If someone claims to know for a fact inside job then yes they should produce said evidence.

If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

You do know this right? Of course you do.

[johnny karate]

If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

johnny please. Tell me what US government collected evidence Interpol had access to. Isn't it important to you? I mean they closed the case for you no? Based on what?

[johnny karate]

johnny please. Tell me what US government collected evidence Interpol had access to.

Nope.

What you said was:
If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[Wildy]

Homeland Insurgency

Stop piss-farting around and answer the questions posed in the OP.

All you are doing is trying to draw the conversation away from the fact that you have an aversion to answering legitimate questions. All you seem to be doing is making other people answer questions while you don't seem to have to.

[TjW]

Well, I have to do a lot of presuming here, because you seem to dodge and weave when asked straightforward questions. But here goes:

Presumably, you have come to the conclusion that another, or more investigation is needed. If this is not true, I have no idea why you would be so argumentative.

Now, if your conclusion is correct, you seem to have had access to enough information to conclude another, or more investigation is needed. A competent foreign intelligence service (FIS) should have come to this conclusion as well.

Based on what evidence that they had access to? That's a straight forward question BTW.

It certainly is. But either your good faith or your reading comprehension seems to be very small. I've bolded the part in my original post that should have provided you the answer. But I'll make it more explicit: the same evidence you used to decide that more or another investigation is needed.


The FIS, of course, would have access to resources that you would likely not. Now, by resources, I don't mean agents in the U.S. to ferret out secret information of a closely held conspiracy, I mean qualified experts in the fields necessary to evaluate information.

Name exactly what they evaluated. Don't assume.

Why? You say you want additional investigation. I am pointing out a class of organizations that would be competent, independent, and motivated to do additional investigation into 9/11.
Name exactly what you evaluated to reach your conclusion that additional investigation is needed.
Name every fact. Don't leave anything out.
Notice that my post was a conditional: IF your conclusion is correct.
If your conclusion is incorrect, then a competent FIS would not reach that conclusion.


There are many FIS that would have this level of competence. Some of them, of course, might be friendly to the U.S., or the Bush administration, and keep quiet.

There are governments though, that would gain politically from publicly embarrassing the Bush administration. Venezuela and N. Korea spring to mind.

Has there been no foreign officials claiming doubts about 9/11? Is there nothing N Korea needs from the US? If there weren't would it prove something? Try harder.


Doubt of the US from an unfriendly state is hardly a weapon.

I'd like to point out that for the purpose of political embarrassment, it is not required that the FIS discover proof of the actual perpetrators, or even what really happened.
All they have to do is present independently verifiable information of a plausible alternate to the consensus narrative. The alternate narrative, though, is crucial.

Based on what evidense that they had access to. Even it a FIS had evidence of something going on in America pryor to 9/11 to come forth with said evidense could also expose how they came to such evidence. That wouldn't be very intelligent would it?

No. To be a useful weapon for a foreign power it has to be independently verifiable. But notice, the alternate narrative doesn't have to be true. It could be a lie. Something that didn't happen. A frameup using existing data that is completely irrelevant.
So it would not depend on the FIS having access to evidence held by the U.S. government. Merely on their ingenuity in supporting a plausible story.


Depending on how broad you believe the conspiracy to be, it would be presented to foreign or the U.S. mainstream media. A complete alternate narrative with independently verifiable evidence implicating the U.S. government would certainly be news.

Again what evidence do they have access to and if they did could they admit it officially? I don't have a conspiracy. You have one if you believe in 19 conspirators. And you don't have a complete narrative either. Live up to your own standards.

Let me turn the question around a bit. Do you believe additional evidence would be available to a second investigation run by the same government you suspect of either: A) not making all relevant evidence available to the first investigation, or B) running the first investigation in such a way that it did not use all the evidence that was available?

If so, why? I'm not asking "what evidence"? You can't be expected to know that.

But if the first investigation was incompetent or corrupt, why would you expect a second one to be different?
If it was not incompetent or corrupt, why would a second investigation be necessary?
Do you think a second investigation run by the U.S. government (and assuming worst case, that it was trying to hide something from the public) would be more likely or less likely to expose incriminating information than a covert investigation/frameup by an FIS? Remember, the evidence doesn't really have to be relevant, merely independently verifiable, and fitting into a plausible narrative of events.

I think the narrative of 9/11 is pretty complete. If you disagree, say what's missing in the narrative. I am not speaking here of what you personally find unbelievable, but the part that's actually missing.


Considered as a weapon, it would do a lot of damage, both inside the U.S., and to its world reputation. It carries virtually no risk of retaliation.

There is plenty of doubt worldwide about 9/11. There is also plenty of distrust towards America and it's government.

Yet in seven years, no enemy of the U.S. has used it.
Are we really that popular?

That's not true. Would you call Iran a friend of the US? Is there not officials from countries like Japan or Italy or Germany who have expressed doubts about 9/11? Most of those countries are suppose to be our friends. How much trust worldwide is there of America right now? Do you live under a rock?

There are individuals all over the world who dislike the U.S. and/or the current administration. A subset of that group probably are officials of foreign governments. A subset of that group probably are twoofers. That's not a plausible narrative supported by independently verifiable data. That's just statistics applied to a large group. So what?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Based on this post



From this thread

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=123971&page=6


Rather than continue to derail the thread I would like to start a new thread and allow HI to be given the opportunity to explain what he is doing to bring to justice those responsible for 911.

Here is a very old thread I started; I never received a satisfactory answer to my questions.


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=89666


HI, the floor is yours.

What exactly in any of the articles or links you post here shows what kind of investigation Interpol or any other international intelligence agency performed on both the events leading up to and on 9/11?

[JimBenArm]

I've written some letters and signed some petitions among other things. What have you ever done besides bend over?
Again with the personal insults? Does my questioning embarrass you so much that you have to resort to such childish taunting?
So, who did you write letters to? What did the petitions ask for, and who were they petitioning?
Come on, you can be specific. Or can you?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Again with the personal insults? Does my questioning embarrass you so much that you have to resort to such childish taunting?
So, who did you write letters to? What did the petitions ask for, and who were they petitioning?
Come on, you can be specific. Or can you?

No. You ask what else I've done besides post on a forum and I told you. Now I'm asking you.

What else have you done?

[JimBenArm]

No. You ask what else I've done besides post on a forum and I told you. Now I'm asking you.

What else have you done?
What else would I need to have done? I don't question the results of the investigation, so why would I be writing petitions and letters and stuff?

I generally go about my daily life, unconcerned about the nonsense that obviously worries you.

Still no specifics? You didn't lie to me again, did you?

[Homeland Insurgency]

What else would I need to have done? I don't question the results of the investigation, so why would I be writing petitions and letters and stuff?

I generally go about my daily life, unconcerned about the nonsense that obviously worries you.

Still no specifics? You didn't lie to me again, did you?

Oh would you look at here now I'm a liar. I was asked if all I do is spend time on an internet forum by someone with over 4,000 postings on an internet forum.

I have a fraction of the posts you have here but I know about a thousand times about 9/11 then you ever could.

That's what I've done.

In addition to the other things I've already stated to which you have absolutely no business as to being filled in on the specifics.

[JimBenArm]

Oh would you look at here now I'm a liar. I was asked if all I do is spend time on an internet forum by someone with over 4,000 postings on an internet forum.

I have a fraction of the posts you have here but I know about a thousand times about 9/11 then you ever could.

That's what I've done.

In addition to the other things I've already stated to which you have absolutely no business as to being filled in on the specifics.
Really now. How do you know what I know about 9/11? Arrogance much?

You obviously have done nothing, otherwise you would have filled in the blanks. I'm sorry, but again you prove that you are indeed a liar and a poser. That's really sad. Here you could be doing stuff, but all you do is post here, insulting people and accomplishing nothing. Petitions? Admit it, you've signed none. Letters? None written. If not, why don't you say what they were about?
There is only one answer, and it's obvious for all to see.

You're only here to bait others. Well, that's okay, just quit with the "I've done stuff" lies. You've exposed yourself.

We're done here. Toodles, liar.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Really now. How do you know what I know about 9/11? Arrogance much?

You obviously have done nothing, otherwise you would have filled in the blanks. I'm sorry, but again you prove that you are indeed a liar and a poser. That's really sad. Here you could be doing stuff, but all you do is post here, insulting people and accomplishing nothing. Petitions? Admit it, you've signed none. Letters? None written. If not, why don't you say what they were about?
There is only one answer, and it's obvious for all to see.

You're only here to bait others. Well, that's okay, just quit with the "I've done stuff" lies. You've exposed yourself.

We're done here. Toodles, liar.

And still she doesn't answer but calls others liars.

[JimBenArm]

Gee, I guess "Jim" is a different gender where you come from, huh?

But then, reading for comprehension never was your strong suit, obviously.

Want me to enlist a second-grader to write your insults for you? It would be an upgrade, and I'd be happy to help out.

Now, about those non-existent letters and petitions...

[johnny karate]

Bump for Homeland Insurgency (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4079771&postcount=68)

[stateofgrace]

What exactly in any of the articles or links you post here shows what kind of investigation Interpol or any other international intelligence agency performed on both the events leading up to and on 9/11?

"Response", do you actually understand the word? Or are you just intent on posting more and more words that have zero meaning and show everybody you are incapable of responding to the OP or any other questions that members have put to you?

If , for reasons that to date you have failed miserably to state,the international community/Interpol has not responded to the events of Sept 11th in the way you expected, than get in touch with them and tell them. If you believe you have something of value to add to the international investigation and response then you has no reason whatsoever not to present your evidence to them. You sign petitions, you have sent letters, so why not send Interpol a letter? Get your evidence together along with all your questions, compose an email and ask them. What is stopping you? Do you not wish them to know the “truth”? Do you not want the international community to support you and your quest for the “truth”? Maybe you could point them in a new direction. Maybe you don’t know their contact details. Here you go.

http://www.interpol.int/Public/contact.asp

Let us know how you get along.

Actually I and I guess most other people who have seen your dreadful excuses and derailing attempts, already know the answer.

[Homeland Insurgency]

"Response", do you actually understand the word? Or are you just intent on posting more and more words that have zero meaning and show everybody you are incapable of responding to the OP or any other questions that members have put to you?

If , for reasons that to date you have failed miserably to state,the international community/Interpol has not responded to the events of Sept 11th in the way you expected, than get in touch with them and tell them. If you believe you have something of value to add to the international investigation and response then you has no reason whatsoever not to present your evidence to them. You sign petitions, you have sent letters, so why not send Interpol a letter? Get your evidence together along with all your questions, compose an email and ask them. What is stopping you? Do you not wish them to know the “truth”? Do you not want the international community to support you and your quest for the “truth”? Maybe you could point them in a new direction. Maybe you don’t know their contact details. Here you go.

http://www.interpol.int/Public/contact.asp

Let us know how you get along.

Actually I and I guess most other people who have seen your dreadful excuses and derailing attempts, already know the answer.


Well would you look here a whole new link for me to try and back up someone else’s assertions. Didn't you do this already?

I didn't ask how international community or Interpol responded to the events of 9/11. I ask what kind of investigation they did into the events both leading up to and on 9/11. I asked you to backup your assumptions and not with just their assumptions and leaps of faith.

And I feel fine about anyone lurking or following this thread so continue.

[johnny karate]

If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[stateofgrace]

Well would you look here a whole new link for me to try and back up someone else’s assertions. Didn't you do this already?

I didn't ask how international community or Interpol responded to the events of 9/11. I ask what kind of investigation they did into the events both leading up to and on 9/11. I asked you to backup your assumptions and not with just their assumptions and leaps of faith.

And I feel fine about anyone lurking or following this thread so continue.

Once again you live up to all expectations and fail miserably to answer with a cohesive point. Well done, it takes a special kind of skill to achieve the monumental failure you have done so, in this thread, in making any sort of comprehensible or meaningful argument.

To date, Homeland you have be presented with an opening posting which quotes some of the responses from the international community, you have failed to address it.

You have been asked some elementary questions.

Why does the international community /Interpol appear not to support the TM? You have failed to respond.

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers? You have failed to respond.

Why aren’t Interpol and the international community claiming there as not been an adequate investigation? You have failed to respond.

Who exactly are you accusing of being involved in mass murder? You have failed to respond.

What exactly are your conclusions? You have failed to respond.

Why don’t you get in touch with the international community and share your information with them? You have failed to respond.

There are many more questions, not the assertions you claim to have been made, but questions which you have failed utterly and completely to address. In summary you have failed to address a single point that as been put you, you have failed to offer up anything close to a rational argument.The only thing you have succeeding in is to shown everybody here what a complete and utter waste of time it is trying to debate with you.

There is no assertion, no claims, just a massive response to a wicked act. You cannot even acknowledge this response. You have and keep demanding a reinvestigation, yet here in this very thread you have been offered the chance to get in touch with an organisation outside of the US, who’s members made a solemn pledge to bring to justice all those involved. You have failed to get in touch, you have failed to make the slightest effort to actually try and get what you demand.

All in all, you have failed completely.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

Unless you can show that Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agency conducted their own investigation into both the events leading up to and on 9/11 and exactly what evidence they had access to I can only assume they are making leaps of faith just like you.

[mchapman]

Why does Johnnyy Karate think interpol have any jurisdiction? Does he think they are the worlds police?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Once again you live up to all expectations and fail miserably to answer with a cohesive point. Well done, it takes a special kind of skill to achieve the monumental failure you have done so, in this thread, in making any sort of comprehensible or meaningful argument.

Yeah right. Just cause you say so debunker because that's how debunking works in your world.

To date, Homeland you have be presented with an opening posting which quotes some of the responses from the international community, you have failed to address it.

What does their response prove? You have failed to answer this.

You have been asked some elementary questions.

Why does the international community /Interpol appear not to support the TM? You have failed to respond.

You're really hung up on appearances huh? Why?

Is there a single intelligence agency, anywhere that agrees with truthers? You have failed to respond.

What investigation have they done to agree or disagree with what claim exactly?

Why aren’t Interpol and the international community claiming there as not been an adequate investigation? You have failed to respond.

No I've responded. They're assuming for all I know. What did they investigate?

Who exactly are you accusing of being involved in mass murder? You have failed to respond.

Unlike you no one. There would need to be an investigation first.

What exactly are your conclusions? You have failed to respond.

That you, Interpol, or the Flying Wallendas who also haven't questioned the official version can't know for certain what happened on 9/11 based on any investigation done to date.

Why don’t you get in touch with the international community and share your information with them? You have failed to respond.

If you have no reason to contact them to back up your own nonsense why the hell should I? I don't believe they know anything. How could they?

Oh that's right you can't answer that.

There are many more questions, not the assertions you claim to have been made, but questions which you have failed utterly and completely to address. In summary you have failed to address a single point that as been put you, you have failed to offer up anything close to a rational argument.The only thing you have succeeding in is to shown everybody here what a complete and utter waste of time it is trying to debate with you.

Oh I've addressed it all. That's what you're worried about. The appearance of getting owned.

There is no assertion, no claims, just a massive response to a wicked act. You cannot even acknowledge this response. You have and keep demanding a reinvestigation, yet here in this very thread you have been offered the chance to get in touch with an organisation outside of the US, who’s members made a solemn pledge to bring to justice all those involved. You have failed to get in touch, you have failed to make the slightest effort to actually try and get what you demand.

More faith in solemn pledges. lol

WHAT DID THEY INVESTIGATE? WHAT COULD THEY? Answer it.

All in all, you have failed completely.

Another assertion based on fear?

You claim no foreign intelligence agency has questioned that there was a complete 9/11 investigation. You assume and provide no evidence of your assertion other then some measures Interpole has implemented well after 9/11. It proves nothing.

Now why don't you tell me why none of the following seasoned Intelligence professionals believe what debunkers claim?

"I am forced to conclude that 9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war, and I am forced to conclude that there is sufficient evidence to indict (not necessarily convict) Dick Cheney, Karl Rove and others of a neoconservative neoNazi coup d'etat and kickoff of the clash of civilizations. – Robert David Steele– U.S. Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer for twenty years. Secondranking civilian (GS14) in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence from 19881992 and a member of the Adjunct Faculty of Marine Corps University. Also former clandestine services case officer with the CIA. 25year U.S. military and intelligence career. Currently CEO of OSS.net

"Only secret services and their current chiefs – or those retired but still having influence inside the state organizations – have the ability to plan, organize and conduct an operation of such magnitude." – General Leonid Ivashov – Joint Chief of Staff of Russian Armies on 9/11/2001. Chief of Department for General Affairs in Soviet Union’s Ministry of Defense. Chief of Military Cooperation Department at Russian Federation’s Ministry of Defense. Secretary of Council of Defense Ministers of Community of Independant States (CIS)

"Why isn't the WMD story being investigated? Why hasn't anybody been held accountable for 9/11? We held people accountable after Pearl Harbor. Why has there been no change in command? Why have there been no political repercussions? Why has there [not been] any sort of exposure on this?" "Did bin Laden act alone, through his own al-Qaida network, in launching the attacks? About that I'm far more certain and emphatic: no." – Robert Baer– Former CIA Case Officer, Specialist in Middle East, Directorate of Operations. Awarded Career Intelligence Medal. 21-year CIA veteran. Author of two nonfiction books about CIA operations, See No Evil and Sleeping with the Devil

"Bin Laden does not have the capabilities for an operation of this magnitude. When I hear Bush talking about al-Qaida as if it was Nazi Germany or the communist party of the Soviet Union, I laugh because I know what is there. Bin Laden has been under surveillance for years: every telephone call was monitored and al-Qaida has been penetrated by American intelligence, Pakistani intelligence, Saudi intelligence, Egyptian intelligence. They could not have kept secret an operation that required such a degree of organisation and sophistication." – Mohamed Hassanein Heikal – Former Foreign Minister of Egypt. Adviser to Egyptian Presidents Nasser and Sadat. Renowned Journalist and Editor.

"I want to talk about the [9/11] Commission itself, about the flawed process of the Commission and finally about the conflict of interest within the Commission that is extremely important to understand the failure of the Commission." – Melvin A. Goodman – Senior Analyst, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, State Department, 1974-1976. Former Division Chief and Senior Analyst, Office of Soviet Affairs, CIA,1976 - 1986. Professor of International Security, National War College 1986-2004. Currently Senior Fellow, Center for International Policy and Adjunct Professor of International Relations, Johns Hopkins University. Author or co-author of five books on international relations.

"The best I could say about it is they really botched the job by not really going into the real failures. … At worst, I think the 9/11 Commission Report is treasonous. And if you look at what the word 'treason' means in the Webster’s Dictionary, it’s a betrayal of a trust." – Bogdan Dzakovic – 14-year Counterterrorism expert, Security Division of Federal Aviation Administration (FAA). Team Leader of FAA's Red (Terrorism) Team. Former Team Leader in Federal Air Marshal program. Former Coast Guard officer. Witness for 9/11 Commission.

"One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" – General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Commanding General of Army Intelligence and Security Command (INSCOM), 1981 - 1984. Also commanded U.S. Army’s Intelligence Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

“After contact by two separate members of the Able Danger team … the 9/11 [Commission] staff refused to perform any in-depth review of investigation of the issues that were identified to them. … It was their job to do a thorough investigation of these claims – to not simply dismiss them based on what many now believe was a “preconceived” conclusion to the 9/11 story they wished to tell. … I consider this a failure of the 9/11 staff ... as is evidenced by their recent, groundless conclusion that Able Danger’s findings were “urban legend.” – Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Military Intelligence Officer, Defense Intelligence Agency. Member of Able Danger effort to target Al Qaeda’s global structure. Former Chief of the Army’s HUMINT [Human Intelligence] program. Awarded the Bronze Star for bravery for the first of his two combat tours to Afghanistan. 23-year military intelligence career.

Reading through the official 9/11 report, I quickly lost my focus – apparently emulating the 9/11 commission over the past 20 months. One wonders if the entire commission wasn't secretly replaced by pod people from the old Soviet Central Committee. I naively expected more constructive and useful information in the report." – Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Staff Member, Office of Director of the National Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.

"I, like the others, am frustrated by the 9/11 Commission Report, by the lack of transparency on the part of the United States government, both in terms of the executive branch and the legislative branch when it comes to putting out on the table all facts known to the 9/11 case." – Major Scott Ritter, U.S. Marine Corps – Former Marine Corps Intelligence Officer and Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq 1991-1998.

The floor is yours.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Why does Johnnyy Karate think interpol have any jurisdiction? Does he think they are the worlds police?


Who knows? Santa and the Easter Bunny haven't questioned the investigation either.

[johnny karate]

Unless you can show that Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agency conducted their own investigation into both the events leading up to and on 9/11 and exactly what evidence they had access to I can only assume they are making leaps of faith just like you.

You're not paying attention. This has nothing to do with any investigation that might have been conducted by Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agency or access to evidence they may have had. This has to do with their opinion on the very public and widely known conclusions of the investigation conducted by agencies of the U.S. government.

You said:
If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[johnny karate]

Why does Johnnyy Karate think interpol have any jurisdiction? Does he think they are the worlds police?

Who knows? Santa and the Easter Bunny haven't questioned the investigation either.

Interpol stands for International Criminal Police Organization. You can read more about who they are an how they operate here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol). I suggest you both do so to avoid making any more hilariously ignorant remarks in the future.

From the Interpol website, courtesy of stateofgrace:
The Interpol General Assembly, meeting in Budapest from 24 to 28 September 2001 at its 70th session:
RECALLING the murderous attacks perpetrated against the world’s citizens in the United States of America on 11 September 2001,
SHOCKED by the loss of and injury to thousands of innocent lives from over 80 countries, including scores of police officers, firefighters and other public servants called to the scene to aid those in need,
DETERMINED that this abhorrent violation of law and of the standards of human decency must be condemned by every civilized person,
CONSCIOUS of our special responsibility as upholders of the laws of almost every nation of the world,
BEARING IN MIND the consistent record of Interpol at past General Assembly sessions in opposing all acts of terrorism, most recently at the 67th session in Cairo (1998) and the 68th session in Seoul (1999),
CONDEMNS these attacks as cold-blooded mass murder;
CONSIDERS that they constitute a crime against humanity;
COMMENDS the General Secretariat for its swift and decisive response to the 11 September tragedy in establishing an immediate and permanent 24-hour capability to respond to all Interpol member countries’ needs;
HONOURS the memory of the law enforcement officers, firefighters, emergency workers and private citizens who selflessly gave their lives to save others;
SHARES in the grief of all those who have been touched by this tragedy and other tragedies caused by terrorism;
REITERATES its unwavering commitment to the 'Cairo Declaration against Terrorism' (AGN/67/RES/12) and calls for enhanced international police and judicial collaboration to tackle terrorism and organized crime more effectively, for example by exploring all opportunities to co-ordinate legal, judicial and operational approaches;
EMPHASIZES the importance of making full use of the services available through Interpol to secure the arrest of fugitive offenders, to improve information sharing between member countries, to develop analysis of the threat more effectively and to facilitate the timely sharing of good practice;
REQUESTS that the General Secretariat afford the highest priority to the issuance of Interpol Red Notices for terrorist offenders whose arrest is sought by member countries and to accelerate the creation of an international database of counterfeit, forged and stolen identity documents;
URGES member countries to develop robust systems for the monitoring of suspicious financial transactions linked to terrorist activities in order to improve the ability of competent authorities to freeze such assets and so disrupt the funding of terrorism;
SOLEMNLY PLEDGES that the Organization and each of its Members endorsing the present resolution will collaborate without reservation, to the fullest extent permitted by law, in identifying every individual who assisted in committing these acts and bringing those who were responsible for them to justice.

Source: http://www.interpol.int/public/ICPO/.../AGN70RES5.asp

Now that you two have been educated, how about it HI:
If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[stateofgrace]

Yeah right. Just cause you say so debunker because that's how debunking works in your world.



What does their response prove? You have failed to answer this.



You're really hung up on appearances huh? Why?



What investigation have they done to agree or disagree with what claim exactly?



No I've responded. They're assuming for all I know. What did they investigate?



Unlike you no one. There would need to be an investigation first.



That you, Interpol, or the Flying Wallendas who also haven't questioned the official version can't know for certain what happened on 9/11 based on any investigation done to date.



If you have no reason to contact them to back up your own nonsense why the hell should I? I don't believe they know anything. How could they?

Oh that's right you can't answer that.



Oh I've addressed it all. That's what you're worried about. The appearance of getting owned.



More faith in solemn pledges. lol

WHAT DID THEY INVESTIGATE? WHAT COULD THEY? Answer it.



Another assertion based on fear?

You claim no foreign intelligence agency has questioned that there was a complete 9/11 investigation. You assume and provide no evidence of your assertion other then some measures Interpole has implemented well after 9/11. It proves nothing.

Now why don't you tell me why none of the following seasoned Intelligence professionals believe what debunkers claim?



The floor is yours.

Dear God.

This thread is about the international response.

Do you understand?

If for reasons that you continually fail to state, you feel the international response is not adequate, then state them. Examples of the international response are laid out in the OP, which you have once again failed to address, as you have yet again failed to address anything. You have done nothing, posted nothing again of any substance.

The response from Interpol and the international community is directly related to the events of Sept 11th. They have pledged, solemnly to bring to justice all those involved. If you believe the inernational community has failed in this pledge then state why, state what you would like them to do to forefill this pledge and state why you will not submit your evidence to them to help them forefill this pledge.

Do you understand?

It is not about what they may have or have not investigated.

IT is about the response.

The response is not one of support for USG involvement, do you understand? They are not like you calling for a reinvestigation, do you understand?

So why is that?

I have never asked you ever to substantiate anything I have posted, I have asked you time and time again why, if you feel the response is not correct, will not get in touch yourself with Interpol and simply ask them, do you understand? Why will you not share your information with them? If you believe they are not aware, don’t know anything, then what is stopping you telling them? Why don't you quote your own sources to the them?

In fact why bother ? This will be my last response to you, period, are you now going on ignore, your continue dodging, ridiculous derailing and franking now childish rhetoric about getting "owned", singles you out as a child and nothing more.

Pathetic, truly pathetic.

Welcome to ignore.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Dear God.

This thread is about the international response.

Do you understand?

If for reasons that you continually fail to state, you feel the international response is not adequate, then state them. Examples of the international response are laid out in the OP, which you have once again failed to address, as you have yet again failed to address anything. You have done nothing, posted nothing again of any substance.

The response from Interpol and the international community is directly related to the events of Sept 11th. They have pledged, solemnly to bring to justice all those involved. If you believe the inernational community has failed in this pledge then state why, state what you would like them to do to forefill this pledge and state why you will not submit your evidence to them to help them forefill this pledge.

Do you understand?

It is not about what they may have or have not investigated.

IT is about the response.

The response is not one of support for USG involvement, do you understand? They are not like you calling for a reinvestigation, do you understand?

So why is that?

I have never asked you ever to substantiate anything I have posted, I have asked you time and time again why, if you feel the response is not correct, will not get in touch yourself with Interpol and simply ask them, do you understand? Why will you not share your information with them? If you believe they are not aware, don’t know anything, then what is stopping you telling them? Why don't you quote your own sources to the them?

In fact why bother ? This will be my last response to you, period, are you now going on ignore, your continue dodging, ridiculous derailing and franking now childish rhetoric about getting "owned", singles you out as a child and nothing more.

Pathetic, truly pathetic.

Welcome to ignore.

God can't help you. I know your OP pointed to response.

I want you to tell everyone what it proves in your mind. Can you even quote anyone commenting on the official version from Interpol or any other International Intelligence agency?

Never mind. You keep pretending you're the only one who can ask questions.

Pretend, truly pretend.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

Learn a new trick already. This one stopped working a long time ago.

What does it prove Johnny?

[Wildy]

Homeland Insurgency

I don't know if you have noticed this, but you aren't actually answering the question.

In fact you are doing everything in your power to not answer it.

So why do you think that groups like Interpol aren't calling for a new investigation into 9/11? Is it because they are part of some grand conspiracy? Are they all just idiots, or sheeple, or something like that?

Do you accept that no intelligence agency around the world has actually called for a new investigation into 9/11?

Why exactly do you believe that the investigation already undertaken by the US is not satisfactory? Is it because they don't agree with what you want to believe? What fatal flaw is there in the US investigation?

Who would conduct this "new investigation"?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Homeland Insurgency

I don't know if you have noticed this, but you aren't actually answering the question.

In fact you are doing everything in your power to not answer it.

Oh I answered it multiple times. Here I'll get one for you.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4089149&postcount=84

Didn't you notice or are you lazy?

So why do you think that groups like Interpol aren't calling for a new investigation into 9/11? Is it because they are part of some grand conspiracy? Are they all just idiots, or sheeple, or something like that?

Assumptions like you maybe? I mean what else could they do? A need for more financing maybe? Wet their beak in the fountain of global war on terror? I mean they have grown a little since 9/11 haven't they? Maybe they have some corruption too. Maybe you should look it up.

Do you accept that no intelligence agency around the world has actually called for a new investigation into 9/11?

I except that none of them have the power to demand as much.

Why exactly do you believe that the investigation already undertaken by the US is not satisfactory? Is it because they don't agree with what you want to believe? What fatal flaw is there in the US investigation?

Read my quotes from intelligence experts. I share their views. No I'm not getting that for you too lazy one.

Who would conduct this "new investigation"?

You. Me. We the people. Invite Interpol. Maybe they'll learn something.

[johnny karate]

Learn a new trick already. This one stopped working a long time ago.

No, it's actually continuing to work and will continue to work as long as you keep dodging the question.

What does it prove Johnny?

It proves that the world's largest international intelligence and criminal investigation agency, compromised of almost two hundred countries from around the world, many of which lost citizens in the 9/11 attacks, sees none of the flaws or inconsistensies in the official version of events that uninformed Internet crackpots see.

And it proves you're afraid to answer questions inconvenient to your ideology.

It proves you are fraud and intellectually dishonest.

It proves that all your bravado and arrogance is tantamount of nothing because you have nothing.

It proves that you live in a myopic, delusional little fantasy world.

In short, it proves you are wrong.

Once again:
If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[Corsair 115]

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?Because, of course, they're all in on it! That's why it's called the New World Order.

Learn a new trick already. This one stopped working a long time ago.You owe me one irony meter, since your comment above just broke the one I was using.

[Homeland Insurgency]

Hey debunkers? Who is presently the acting president of Interpol and why do they only have an acting President? What happened to the one before?

Well so much for "solemn pledges to justice" and all the other dribble stateofgrace was appealing to for lack of anything else.

It really must be discouraging to keep continuing to be let down by your heroes time and time again.

But I'll give Interpol and their acting President one thing. I wish we were so far ahead in this country to be up to our acting President pending review. No such luck though.

[johnny karate]

Hey debunkers? Who is presently the acting president of Interpol and why do they only have an acting President? What happened to the one before?

Well so much for "solemn pledges to justice" and all the other dribble stateofgrace was appealing to for lack of anything else.

It really must be discouraging to keep continuing to be let down by your heroes time and time again.

But I'll give Interpol and their acting President one thing. I wish we were so far ahead in this country to be up to our acting President pending review. No such luck though.

Your hilarious penchant for public humilaition continues, and we are once again allowed to laugh at your ignorance of pretty much everything.

Apparently you saw "President" and thought "Golly, he must be in charge 'cause that's what presidents do!".

But unfortunately for you, and fortunately for those of us who enjoy laughing at all the stupid things you say, the Secretary General serves as the chief executive officer of Interpol (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Governance/SG/Default.asp), not the President.

So whatever dispersions you want to cast upon a President of Interpol who served for less than a year seven years after 9/11 took place, you go right ahead. It has absolutley no bearing on how Interpol functions as an intelligence and criminal investigation agency since the President of Interpol is not directly involved in those aspects.

Anway, if you're done proudly displaying how much you don't know:
If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

[Wildy]

Oh I answered it multiple times. Here I'll get one for you.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=4089149&postcount=84

Didn't you notice or are you lazy?

Hang on, this was your answer?

Unless you can show that Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agency conducted their own investigation into both the events leading up to and on 9/11 and exactly what evidence they had access to I can only assume they are making leaps of faith just like you.

How the hell is that an answer? But it does call for some interesting logic though. I guess you will be shutting up about a new investigation now right. I mean none of us can show that you conducted your own investigation into both the events leading up to an on 9/11 and exactly what evidence you had access to, the only conclusion is that you are making a leap of faith.

Assumptions like you maybe? I mean what else could they do? A need for more financing maybe? Wet their beak in the fountain of global war on terror? I mean they have grown a little since 9/11 haven't they? Maybe they have some corruption too. Maybe you should look it up.

What the hell does the bit I've bolded mean?

I except that none of them have the power to demand as much.

So your answer is? Funny how a yes/no question is quite hard for you to answer.

Read my quotes from intelligence experts. I share their views. No I'm not getting that for you too lazy one.

So you agree with 10 intelligence people which in all probability is a very small percentage of intelligence officers?

You. Me. We the people. Invite Interpol. Maybe they'll learn something.

I fixed it for you. I don't really see why I should have to do an American investigation for Americans.

What exactly could Interpol learn from a bunch of people who most likely have all their experience of investigating things and forensic science from watching CSI?

And would this investigation be a proper one, or one of the kangaroo court investigations that the "truthers" like to peddle?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Hang on, this was your answer?

Yes that was my answer.

See? You don't even know what "We the People" means.

All you know is bend over, ask for more, and say please thank you may I have another.

Now where is your answer about Interpol only having an acting President right now? Why is that?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Your hilarious penchant for public humilaition continues, and we are once again allowed to laugh at your ignorance of pretty much everything.

Apparently you saw "President" and thought "Golly, he must be in charge 'cause that's what presidents do!".

But unfortunately for you, and fortunately for those of us who enjoy laughing at all the stupid things you say, the Secretary General serves as the chief executive officer of Interpol (http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Governance/SG/Default.asp), not the President.

So whatever dispersions you want to cast upon a President of Interpol who served for less than a year seven years after 9/11 took place, you go right ahead. It has absolutley no bearing on how Interpol functions as an intelligence and criminal investigation agency since the President of Interpol is not directly involved in those aspects.

Anway, if you're done proudly displaying how much you don't know:


Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

Because they can only assume or pretend just like you. How sad. To do otherwise could only make waves and jepordize their funding or expansion in the Global War on Terror gravy train.

You really need to read my answers before you claim I didn't answer.

Well not really.

[johnny karate]

Because they can only assume or pretend just like you. How sad. To do otherwise could only make waves and jepordize their funding or expansion in the Global War on Terror gravy train.

Finally the truth comes out.

After embarrassing yourself repeatedly by advertising you're laughable failures to understand how Interpol functions in a sad pretense that they were either not interested or not able to investigate 9/11, you finally man up and admit what pretty much everyone already knew you thought: Interpol is in on it.

One can only assume the reason you didn't simply say this to begin with is because even you recognise how patently absurd such a belief is.

Now that you've implicated an international organization consisting of almost 200 nations (including one that was invaded by the U.S. in the aftermath of 9/11), you're basically just a hair's breadth away from implicating the entire planet.

Out of curiousity, who do think is not in on the conspiracy and with so many people involved from all over the world, who exactly is the conspiracy meant to fool, and why?

[Homeland Insurgency]

Finally the truth comes out.

After embarrassing yourself repeatedly by advertising you're laughable failures to understand how Interpol functions in a sad pretense that they were either not interested or not able to investigate 9/11, you finally man up and admit what pretty much everyone already knew you thought: Interpol is in on it.

One can only assume the reason you didn't simply say this to begin with is because even you recognise how patently absurd such a belief is.

Now that you've implicated an international organization consisting of almost 200 nations (including one that was invaded by the U.S. in the aftermath of 9/11), you're basically just a hair's breadth away from implicating the entire planet.

Out of curiousity, who do think is not in on the conspiracy and with so many people involved from all over the world, who exactly is the conspiracy meant to fool, and why?

I think you and all the other debunkers who have put all your faith into the international intelligence community should at least wait until the jury is in on the Interpol shamed president before you go and get let down yet again.

In fact you would be wise to not commit yourself to endorsing domestic reports on 9/11 sponsored by your own shamed President.

I just hate watching you all let down time and time again.

Just looking out for ya all okay?

Have a good night. I hope my little spanking didn't sting too bad.

[johnny karate]

I think you and all the other debunkers who have put all your faith into the international intelligence community should at least wait until the jury is in on the Interpol shamed president before you go and get let down yet again.

In fact you would be wise to not commit yourself to endorsing domestic reports on 9/11 sponsored by your own shamed President.

I just hate watching you all let down time and time again.

Just looking out for ya all okay?

Have a good night. I hope my little spanking didn't sting too bad.

I see you're back to incoherent rhetoric and avoiding the hard questions.

Back on topic:

Now that you've implicated an international organization consisting of almost 200 nations (including one that was invaded by the U.S. in the aftermath of 9/11), you're basically just a hair's breadth away from implicating the entire planet.

Out of curiousity, who do think is not in on the conspiracy and with so many people involved from all over the world, who exactly is the conspiracy meant to fool, and why?

[Wildy]

Yes that was my answer.

See my comments of it in the last post.

See? You don't even know what "We the People" means.

What do you mean?

I know that it appears in the US Constitution, and it refers in that sense at least, to the people of the United States.

The problem is that I fail to see how it actually means anything to me.

All you know is bend over, ask for more, and say please thank you may I have another.

Prove it.

Now where is your answer about Interpol only having an acting President right now? Why is that?

I didn't know I had to answer that question.

Funny how you seemed to ignore most of my post by the way...

[Homeland Insurgency]

I see you're back to incoherent rhetoric and avoiding the hard questions.

Back on topic:

Now that you've implicated an international organization consisting of almost 200 nations (including one that was invaded by the U.S. in the aftermath of 9/11), you're basically just a hair's breadth away from implicating the entire planet.

Out of curiousity, who do think is not in on the conspiracy and with so many people involved from all over the world, who exactly is the conspiracy meant to fool, and why?

What conspiracy? Is it a conspiracy to not have access to any evidence and to assume something is true?

[Homeland Insurgency]

I didn't know I had to answer that question.

No you didn't. lol

[johnny karate]

What conspiracy?

That would be the conspiracy you alluded to five posts ago.

Perhaps you have trouble maintaining consistency in your retarded arguments. Allow me to refresh your memory:
Because they can only assume or pretend just like you. How sad. To do otherwise could only make waves and jepordize their funding or expansion in the Global War on Terror gravy train.

The "conpiracy" would be the part I bolded where you claim Interpol is aiding the U.S. government in covering up the murder of 3,000 people by keeping their mouths shut in hopes of financial benefit.

Is it a conspiracy to not have access to any evidence and to assume something is true?

There you go again trying to frame the question in a manner more conducive to your nonsense answers.

Let's refresh your memory again:
If someone claims there hasn't been enough of an investigation to know what happened on 9/11 it means they haven't seen enough evidence.

Why aren't Interpol or any other foreign intelligence agencies making this claim?

Because they can only assume or pretend just like you. How sad. To do otherwise could only make waves and jepordize their funding or expansion in the Global War on Terror gravy train.

You're suggesting Interpol, an international intelligence and criminal investigation agency comprised of almost 200 countries, has not expressed suspicions regarding the events of 9/11 because they are on board the "Global War on Terror gravy train", whatever that's supposed to be.

You have now implicated nearly 200 other nations of colluding with the U.S. government after the fact in their conspiracy to fake a major terrorist attack as a means to imperialistic conquest. Including among these nations are countries that have been openly critical and even hostile towards America, and even one that was actually invaded in the aftermath of 9/11.

This preposterous theory begs the question: Why would a nation powerful enough to bring all these other countries into line even bother with a cover up to begin with?

If this much of the world is involved in the conspiracy, what is the need for the conspiracy?