The Professor's writers claim the MDC is a sham

[William Smith]

The stage is yours, The Professor's writers.

Please provide evidence for the statement that the MDC is a sham.

[Azrael 5]

I propose The Professor's claim is a sham.

Couldn't The Professor also list evidence,as he claims it too.

[chillzero]

I can't believe I need to post a reminder this early.
Please keep this thread on topic. It is not for discussing The Professor's claim, nor any other claim specifically. It is to discuss whether the claim itself is a sham or not.

Anything further in this thread not on topic is in danger of being removed, and the thread may be put on moderated status.

[Thabiguy]

It is to discuss whether the claim itself is a sham or not.

You mean the MDC itself, right?

[Pogo]

The original post seems to limit the responders to The Professor's writers. Which, if correct, should mean this thread is over.

[Azrael 5]

Apologies for rule breaking,I dont know what thread is for what anymore ;)

[xinit]

I know a couple Paid Professional Florists who think that "The MDC" is a punk rock band... would their opinions change reality?

[chillzero]

You mean the MDC itself, right?

Yes.
As per the OP, the claim has been made that the MDC is a sham. There's some context on page 18 of this thread:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=121157

The Professor's writers claim the MDC is a sham

The stage is yours, The Professor's writers.

Please provide evidence for the statement that the MDC is a sham.

[William Smith]

Yes.
As per the OP, the claim has been made that the MDC is a sham. There's some context on page 18 of this thread:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=121157

Specifically, this post. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4064114#post4064114)

[Mojo]

The stage is yours, The Professor's writers.

Please provide evidence for the statement that the MDC is a sham.


Some evidence for the existence of the writers would be a start.

[Moochie]

Apologies for rule breaking,I dont know what thread is for what anymore ;)

Same here.


M.

[Azrael 5]

I thought the writer's strike was over? Seems not.

[xinit]

Some evidence for the existence of the writers would be a start.

I heard them on my iPod earlier. Someone write that man a cheque (or check, if you prefer)

[jj]

Since the MDC is not a sham, how can we post to this thread? If we're limited to producing evidence that it IS a sham, well, since it's not, that evidence is going to be a long time coming ...

[Czarcasm]

Some evidence for the existence of the writers would be a start.They are as real as his protocol, so there!

[Moochie]

They are as real as his protocol, so there!

Exactly! That's the beauty of imagination -- one can conjure up swathes of "professional writers," "TV deals," and a partridge in a pear tree, all without one shred of evidence.

Oh, I wish it were so!


M.

[fromdownunder]

I think that the Professor has been watching The Amazing Race far too often, and decided that since he is doing a TV show as well, creating his own roadblocks is a great literary "show stopping" device which adds to the theatre of it all.

What have we had so far:

The Wedding and Honeymoon
Bad Moderation on "THA THREAD"
Biased negotiator
Writers needed
Change in Negotiator
2nd Biased Negotiator
Writers turn into judges and refuse to co-operate
Randi won't turn up and it's JREF's fault!!!

Is this a record?

Norm

[Moochie]

I think that the Professor has been watching The Amazing Race far too often, and decided that since he is doing a TV show as well, creating his own roadblocks is a great literary "show stopping" device which adds to the theatre of it all.

What have we had so far:

The Wedding and Honeymoon
Bad Moderation on "THA THREAD"
Biased negotiator
Writers needed
Change in Negotiator
2nd Biased Negotiator
Writers turn into judges and refuse to co-operate
Randi won't turn up and it's JREF's fault!!!

Is this a record?

Norm

We'll need to wait for His Eminence to respond...


M.

[Seanrmr]

I find it odd that a professional writer being payed to write something would decide not to. Even if they thought the MDC was a sham wouldn't they still want work. Or was it more they couldn't work with Mr. Koenig as he wouldn't let them write something that would actually get approved as he would no longer be able to do a performance and have to actually have a paranormal event occur. If it was the last case they might have said " This is a sham", and Mr. Koenig went "exactly the MDC is a sham" although they were talking about Mr. Koenigs claim.

Or my last idea about these writers. Who is a writer we have heard about who as a mutual acquaintance with Mr. Koenig? That would be Raymond Hill. So to prove he has a writer may indeed be a MDC winning attempt.

[Bob Klase]

I find it odd that a professional writer being payed to write something would decide not to. Even if they thought the MDC was a sham wouldn't they still want work. Or was it more they couldn't work with Mr. Koenig as he wouldn't let them write something that would actually get approved as he would no longer be able to do a performance and have to actually have a paranormal event occur. If it was the last case they might have said " This is a sham", and Mr. Koenig went "exactly the MDC is a sham" although they were talking about Mr. Koenigs claim.

Or my last idea about these writers. Who is a writer we have heard about who as a mutual acquaintance with Mr. Koenig? That would be Raymond Hill. So to prove he has a writer may indeed be a MDC winning attempt.


One other possibility (and the one I'd bet on if I was betting)- there are no 'professional writers' and never were.

[often mrunderstood]

The MDC is a sham in that the money will never be won. This is not because it doesn't exist, or JREF is biased, or non-believers give bad vibes, or Randi wasn't there, or whatever, that list that goes on forever....

The reason the money is safe is because there is no such thing as magic, ghosts, spirits, or friggin santa claus. Only small children (or should I say undeveloped brains) don't know this.

So, I would be willing to give this one to the foolish amongst us. The MDC leads the ignorant to believe that it might be winnable. Tis' not.

ETA, if there ever were any real "professional writers" on the case, I don't rule out the possibility of them concluding that they would not be capable of authoring a protocol to an unwinnable challenge. They would say this because they are intelligent professionals who understand what I said above.

[Azrael 5]

When it comes to proof The Prof seems lacking.How hard can it be to name the writers,they'd love the publicity I'm sure.

[The Professor]

There is an old saying about giving closed minded critical thinkers enough rope ... And guess what ... It's TRUE!
I'm sorry that several of you are swinging from your own noose.

[xinit]

There is an old saying about giving closed minded critical thinkers enough rope ... And guess what ... It's TRUE!
I'm sorry that several of you are swinging from your own noose.

:confused:

By definition, a critical thinker has an open mind; open to evidence.

Critical thinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking) consists of mental processes of discernment, analysis and evaluation. It includes possible processes of reflecting upon a tangible or intangible item in order to form a solid judgment that reconciles scientific evidence with common sense. In contemporary usage "critical" has a certain negative connotation that does not apply in the present case.[1] Though the term "analytical thinking" may seem to convey the idea more accurately, critical thinking clearly involves synthesis, evaluation, and reconstruction of thinking, in addition to analysis.

Critical thinkers gather information from all senses, verbal and/or written expressions, reflection, observation, experience and reasoning. Critical thinking has its basis in intellectual criteria that go beyond subject-matter divisions and which include: clarity, credibility, accuracy, precision, relevance, depth, breadth, logic, significance and fairness."

Wikipedia, for good or ill, has a decent encapsulation of the idea, and they even have a description for people who believe that critical thought is a close minded process for backing up beliefs...

"Crank" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crank_(person)) is a pejorative term for a person who either holds some belief which the vast majority of his contemporaries would consider false, is eccentric (especially someone who is unduly zealous), or is just simply bad-tempered.[1] The term implies that a "cranky" belief is so wildly at variance with some commonly accepted truth as to be ludicrous, and arguing with the crank is useless, because he will invariably dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict his cranky belief.

Common synonyms for "crank" include kook and crackpot. Similarly, the word quack is usually reserved for someone who promotes a medical remedy or practice that they know to be ineffective. But with the word crank, it differs from the fanatic in that the subject of the fanatic's obsession is not necessarily widely regarded as wrong, or a "fringe" belief.

I didn't start out believing you were a crank, TP; I really tried to help you bring your claim for the MDC to a fine point. However, the more I read from what you wrote here and elsewhere, I had to come to a conclusion based on analysis and thought. You do not appear to be possessed of the most basic elements of logic or the scientific method. You seem to turn a blind eye to questions and statements that do not agree with your world view.

You are anything but a critical thinker, and very much a crank. Your assertion (jokingly or otherwise) that critical thinkers are neither critical nor thinkers just assists in bringing one to the crank conclusion.

[The Professor]

Guess you can't grasp the concept of CLOSED MINDED CRITICAL THINKERS :)
I knew you'd be upset.

[xinit]

Guess you can't grasp the concept of CLOSED MINDED CRITICAL THINKERS :)
I knew you'd be upset.

Show me evidence of the closed mindedness, kooky.

[Azrael 5]

Show me evidence of the closed mindedness, kooky.

Don't mention the "E" word.;)

[William Smith]

For some reason, The Professor seems in need for baiting. Usually a method of despair and done when in lack of more efficient means of communication.

One should consider ignoring him - whilst remembering that everything he chooses to post is still there for everyone to see.

[jimtron]

The Professor:

Do you believe the MDC to be a sham, as your writers have stated? If so, please provide the evidence--if that's the case, I'd like to know. If it's not the case, that should be cleared up, so we don't have false accusations. Either way, I'd like to know the truth.


- Jim

[Bob Klase]

There is an old saying about giving closed minded critical thinkers enough rope ... And guess what ... It's TRUE!

Guess we'll have to add one more to the list of claims you've made.

Things aren't true just because TP says they are.

[steenkh]

There is an old saying about giving closed minded critical thinkers enough rope ... And guess what ... It's TRUE!
I'm sorry that several of you are swinging from your own noose.
There is also a saying of digging a grave for others, and guess what? It's TRUE! I am so sorry to see that you are in it up to your neck.

OK, so you did not succeed with your attempt at smearing. Any other ideas?

[Czarcasm]

Back to the topic at hand.
What are the names of the professional SF writers that said the MDC was a sham?

[steenkh]

Back to the topic at hand.
What are the names of the professional SF writers that said the MDC was a sham?
Did he ever employ any writers? We certainly never saw anything that could not just as well have been written by TP himself.

I believe the mystery writers were just an invention to impress us.

[chran]

Did we ever learn that they were SF writers?

[Drs_Res]

It's not a sham...it's a ShamWow (http://www.shamwow.com/).

[Moochie]

It's not a sham...it's a ShamWow (http://www.shamwow.com/).

I tried them. They don't work. They couldn't remove my deep doubt about the present claimant's bona fides.


M.

[The Professor]

Did he ever employ any writers? We certainly never saw anything that could not just as well have been written by TP himself.

I believe the mystery writers were just an invention to impress us.

The writers agree that it's a sham.

They are busy working on Movies, TV shows, and a project that is of great importance to me :)

I'd like to publicly thank them for their input!

We have succeeded in all areas of our endeavors and we are now working on the Protocol with a renewed intensity.

There will be much fun this Friday!

[Czarcasm]

What are the names of the professional SF writers that said the MDC was a sham?

[The Professor]

When the Media Expose' comes out, you'll have your answers. Perhaps you'll be used as an example :)

[Czarcasm]

When the Media Expose' comes out, you'll have your answers. Perhaps you'll be used as an example :)1. Is this "Media Expose'" going to happen before or after you submit your protocol?
2. What are the names of the professional SF writers that said the MDC was a sham?

[chillzero]

Posts split to AAH for being off topic, and circumventing the moderation status of the protocol thread. Continued posting off topic will result in another moderated thread.

[RoboTimbo]

When the Media Expose' comes out, you'll have your answers. Perhaps you'll be used as an example :)


So noted that, as yet, you haven't identified the people who you state are making such a claim. If you look around this forum, you'll see that claims without evidence aren't worth the screen pixels they waste.

Will your media expose of the MDC be as embarrassing for you :) as your friend's "psychic prediction"?

[Pogo]

My guess is, "media expose'" means a video on YouTube of somebody ranting.

[Azrael 5]

Where is AAH? Just curious.

Media expose probably extends past YouTube to an internet radio show on a Sunday night listened to by no-one[except Koneig's buddys]

[steenkh]

Let me guess: Jim Callahan is involved in this "Media Expose" :rolleyes:

[snoop_doxie]

Where is AAH? Just curious.

Media expose probably extends past YouTube to an internet radio show on a Sunday night listened to by no-one[except Koneig's buddys]



Azrael,

AAH is the thread called Abandon All Hope in the members section.

[The Professor]

The same writers are now analyzing the emails from Jeff Wagg where the protocol is discussed at least 8 times. Then his post on the JREF Forum (Where he told me NOT to post) that he hadn't discussed the Protocol at all. (Just a couple hours later )
Curious :)

The writers are now even more convinced this MDC is a SHAM.

[not daSkeptic]

Then his post on the JREF Forum (Where he told me NOT to post) that he hadn't discussed the Protocol at all. (Just a couple hours later )
Curious :)

Could you cite this post please?

[The Professor]

If it hasn't been deleted or moved you should be able to find it yourself ... RIGHT?

to jeff@randi.org
date Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 9:28 AM
subject Re: Contacting the JREF..
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details 11/25/08

Reply

Jeff

I will take your questions one at a time.

1) "I understand that you've been contacting the JREF, and have told them that you've been in contact with me. I also understand that you're complaining that forum members have been checking up on you."

Yes, I have been contacting the JREF. I've spoken with Shaun, Randi and another nice lady who answered the phone a time or two. I've spoken with Randi and Shaun at least two time each and maybe more. I asked them several questions and got a few great answers. Very helpful.

In my last conversation with Shaun he said that "he" would contact you about my concern over JREF Forum members directly interfering in the JREF MDC Protocol as in their contacting the location's Police Department and telling them lies about me. (It appears that he did) They have publicly stated on the JREF forum that they told the Lake Helen Police Department that I was going to perform a MAGIC SHOW in their cemetery. I think that this would upset any authorities. Please show me where I claimed I'd perform a Magic Show. All of my conversations with the authorities have been on how meet in their cemetery in a respectful manner.

I have never stated that I've been in contact with you other than the times that I have. I may have said that I hoped to email you when I'd finished my protocol, but I've never stated that we had any other contact.

2) "First, you should not call the JREF. There is no one there who can help you".

I can't agree. I have found my conversations with James Randi and Shaun (Hope the spelling is correct) very enlightening. Being a magician, speaking with Randi was a privilege. I feel that direct contact is very efficient. I have learned a lot about the way things are run and what is expected of me. I would think that the more direct contact the more information that could be utilized to help in the negotiations and development of the protocol.

Are you now saying that I am "Prohibited" from calling the JREF?

3) "Second, forum members are private individuals. What they do is their business"

I've never said that Forum member's "Weren't" private individuals, but the JREF Publishes what they say and contributes to the information used in what they do. Are you defending Eirik (Not really sure that's his name or that he's a lawyer as claimed) and his direct interference with my proposed location for the JREF MDC?

What he's claimed is an obvious lie. I've never said I'd be performing a MAGIC SHOW in the Lake Helen Cemetery. NEVER!
But that is what he's claimed in his contact with them. (There are other problems with his attempted sabotage that I can go into later if you'd like to know the truth)

Do you support this lie?
Do you advocate his interference?
Do you have personal knowledge of him as a friend or acquaintance?

If they Directly Interfere with my proposed protocol and the procurement of the necessary location wouldn't this be "Our" business as well? Both myself and the JREF?

If not ... then why?

3) "However, because of your calling, I know that you've not been honest with us. You repeatedly say that you're in discussions with me, even though we haven't communicated since before Halloween. Also, if what I hear is true, you lied about getting permission to conduct your ritual in the cemetery."

I have been Totally Honest with you. The calls actually Prove that! I have never to the best of my knowledge said that I had contacted you since Halloween. I had said that Shaun was going to contact you on my behalf about the problems with the JREF Forum members confession and he apparently did.

I am working on my Protocol as instructed.

I am attempting to focus on the Self Evident portion of the test. It is difficult to say the least and it seems at one time you were happy that I delayed the test to allow you more time to get volunteers together ( One month was not enough), but now you appear to be "Pushing".

Bottom line ... I've never claimed to have communicated with you since Halloween.

Who has told you that I lied to the Lake Helen Police Department? I'd like to know the inside source for this information. Please give me their real name and contact information so I can defend myself from this slander. Lying to the Police Department is a big deal and I'd like to see your proof. (Just spoke with those authorities again last week, and they said nothing about it)

So you see, I have been totally honest in my protocol negotiations even contacting the JREF office for additional information, but you seem to be supporting the interference by unnamed sources. Please let me know if I'm wrong here?

4) " At this point, I have no reason to believe you are acting in good faith with the JREF. I will, however, give you a chance to explain yourself. This is it."

And now you threaten that this is my "Last Chance".

I am and always have been acting in good faith. I have invested my Time. Money, and Effort into this Application. I've developed my Application as requested, my Media Presence as requested, an Academic Approval as requested, and my Claim as requested. I am doing everything that the JREF MDC requires. I am preceding with my protocol as requested in a fair manner.

I would like you to name the sources of the lies perpetrated against me.
Also any proof that I am not acting in good faith.
If a JREF Forum Member is falsely accusing me of criminal activities involved in the JREF MDC protocol, I'm sure you would want to get to the truth of the matter. Where is the proof and who is the accuser?

I assure you that I honestly want to take the JREF MDC!
I always have.
You have offered the challenge and I am taking you up on your offer.
Thanks
David Koenig
- Show quoted text -


The post on the JREF Forum by Wagg was a few hours after this continuing argument over the Protocol and Jeff Waggs interference in it!

You should be able to find it now :)

[Czarcasm]

The same writers are now analyzing the emails from Jeff Wagg where the protocol is discussed at least 8 times. Then his post on the JREF Forum (Where he told me NOT to post) that he hadn't discussed the Protocol at all. (Just a couple hours later )
Curious :)

The writers are now even more convinced this MDC is a SHAM.
Who would these writers be, again?
In what subjects do they write, fiction or non-fiction?

[not daSkeptic]

The post on the JREF Forum by Wagg was a few hours after this continuing argument over the Protocol and Jeff Waggs interference in it!

You should be able to find it now :)

Nope, sorry. I must suck at searching this forum. Please, show me what I've overlooked.

[The Professor]

Nope, sorry. I must suck at searching this forum. Please, show me what I've overlooked.

So it has been deleted or moved?

Or are you saying it never existed?

Which is it?

[ParrotPirate]

For some reason, The Professor seems in need for baiting. Usually a method of despair and done when in lack of more efficient means of communication.

One should consider ignoring him - whilst remembering that everything he chooses to post is still there for everyone to see.

Since he never has any proof for any of his claims,maybe we should all ignore him.

[not daSkeptic]

So it has been deleted or moved?

Or are you saying it never existed?

Which is it?

You tell me. It's your claim. Back it up.

[Pixel42]

It's perfectly simple. There were plenty of emails which mentioned the word 'protocol' but no emails which actually discussed the protocol. I'm sure competent writers will, unlike The Professor, be able to tell the difference.

[Mojo]

Do we have any evidence that these "writers" exist yet?

[catbasket]

'm sure competent writers will, unlike The Professor, be able to tell the difference.

I suggest TP get a team of competent readers ...

[William Smith]

Do we have any evidence that these "writers" exist yet?

No.

Neither do we have evidence they claimed the "MDC is a sham". Which was the OP of this thread and shamefully - I mean: Shamefully :) - got derailed.

[Azrael 5]

No claim no writers no abilities,no permission from Helena police,no ideas.

Plenty of talk still Dave,still cannot back up anything.Soemthings never change.

[The Professor]

So I gather you folks can't even find the thread :)
SAD :)

[Pixel42]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=4228377#post4228377

Nice to see that my memory is, like my reading comprehension skills, as good as ever.

[Mongrel]

I have to ask. Why take the advice of writers instead of lawyers when it comes to matters that pertain to contract law?

[Cuddles]

This thread is about an alleged claim by some alleged writers that the MDC is a sham. It is not for general discussions about The Professor. In addition, please note that The Professor is no longer an applicant for the challenge, so any discussions should take place in the appropriate threads in other sections.

[The Professor]

It's perfectly simple. There were plenty of emails which mentioned the word 'protocol' but no emails which actually discussed the protocol. I'm sure competent writers will, unlike The Professor, be able to tell the difference.

Unless you have copies of all the emails you have absolutely no way of knowing. So what you say is out of ignorance of the facts.
Do you have said copies? :) NO!
Not too logical for a critical thinker :)
:cool::cool:

[The Professor]

I have to ask. Why take the advice of writers instead of lawyers when it comes to matters that pertain to contract law?

It's good to see that you advocate getting a Lawyer when dealing with the JREF :)
You are learning :)
But I will stick with the writers for now. They are good with definitions.

[William Smith]

The stage is yours, The Professor's writers.

Please provide evidence for the statement that the MDC is a sham.

It's good to see that you advocate getting a Lawyer when dealing with the JREF :)
You are learning :)
But I will stick with the writers for now. They are good with definitions.

Can they define how the MDC is a sham? Preferably with evidence?

[Bob Klase]

Unless you have copies of all the emails you have absolutely no way of knowing. So what you say is out of ignorance of the facts.
Do you have said copies? :) NO!
Not too logical for a critical thinker :)
:cool::cool:

SOP for the professor. First he makes a claim, then he puts up emails which fail to support the claim, waits until someone calls him on the failure to support his claim and he attacks to distract attention from the fact that he can't support the claim.

[Azrael 5]

Professor the writer's are a figment of your imagination.Let's see these emails that mention the protocol! I'm betting good money you never post them here.

[The Professor]

SOP for the professor. First he makes a claim, then he puts up emails which fail to support the claim, waits until someone calls him on the failure to support his claim and he attacks to distract attention from the fact that he can't support the claim.
Wish you could see the number of posts that are deleted, edited or threads closed. :)
It is all part of the mistreatment that applicants go through.
The folks at Dragoncon called the MDC a Sham. Did you see it?

[rjh01]

Posts deleted or is that entire Threads deleted? Threads closed? Are you talking about threads here or at Dragoncon?

Easy to call the MDC a sham, but do you have any evidence that it is a sham? This is your claim not anyone else's.

[Klimax]

Wish you could see the number of posts that are deleted, edited or threads closed. :)
It is all part of the mistreatment that applicants go through.
The folks at Dragoncon called the MDC a Sham. Did you see it?

Strange,I have not noticed any deleted threads or posts,while followingmajority of threads.Only exception was in moderated threads when they were breaching MA(uncivil,offtopic,...),but there they were not approved.

BTW.:Threads here are very rarely deleted.(I do not recall a single case)Sent to deep storage,place where only moderators and admins have access,yes but in a year I was here only one or two cases.(IIRC)

[RoboTimbo]

It's good to see that you advocate getting a Lawyer when dealing with the JREF :)
You are learning :)
But I will stick with the writers for now. They are good with definitions.

Could I get a job as one of the writers on your team? Sounds like the easiest job in the world to me... just do nothing.

[William Smith]

Wish you could see the number of posts that are deleted, edited or threads closed. :)
It is all part of the mistreatment that applicants go through.
The folks at Dragoncon called the MDC a Sham. Did you see it?

You are the UFO. I am Fox Mulder. I want to believe.

But I need evidence. Do you have evidence?

[steenkh]

Wish you could see the number of posts that are deleted, edited or threads closed. :)
I have followed these threads all the time, and I am not aware that anything other than off-topic posts have been deleted - and you were given a larger margin of error than the people who called your bluffs.

It is all part of the mistreatment that applicants go through.

Applicants are handled by the JREF, not by the forum. Here, too, you have been given a larger margin of error than justified - to the point where the JREF had to tell you how to make a claim, because you were unable to formulate something yourself (despite your team of writers :) )

The folks at Dragoncon called the MDC a Sham. Did you see it?
Did they write here? If not, why should we have seen it?

I am sure that many people who have no idea what the MDC is all about - or who are dissatisfied that the applicants are not allowed to run the test without controls - will claim like you that the MDC is a sham. Why should we be bothered?

[Azrael 5]

The writers aren't real,just like your paranormal abilities Prof.
You got busted and it hurts I'm sure ,but the only people who call the MDC a sham(other than invisible writers)are those who have no proof.

Like you.
How many threads are deleted at the Magic Cafe huh? Lots.

[autumn1971]

Were the MDC a sham, a simple call to the local BBB, or FBI Regional office, or FTC, or FCC, or whatever, would produce a world of sh..aving cream for the JREF. Claims and protocols are negotiated across state and national boundaries, and the MDC has been promoted over the airwaves. If anyone had any evidence that a massive scam was going on, they would put in a call to, well, just about anyone in any capacity in any federal office! I even forgot about the IRS!

Evidence!

It's the magic word.

[Pogo]

Were the MDC a sham, a simple call to the local BBB, or FBI Regional office, or FTC, or FCC, or whatever, would produce a world of sh..aving cream for the JREF. Claims and protocols are negotiated across state and national boundaries, and the MDC has been promoted over the airwaves. If anyone had any evidence that a massive scam was going on, they would put in a call to, well, just about anyone in any capacity in any federal office! I even forgot about the IRS!

Evidence!

It's the magic word.

In The Professor's world, something said at a fantasy convention is what passes for evidence.

[The Professor]

Looks like an Alison Smith is going to use a Franks box to get EVP's at a haunted portal.
Sounds incredibly similar to my MDC protocol!!!!!! :)
Maybe it isn't a sham. Maybe it's a TV script rip off?

[jimtron]

Sounds incredibly similar to my MDC protocol!!!!!!

What protocol? IIRC, you never got very specific about what your claim was, and never arrived at a protocol. If I'm mistaken, please post it here or provide a link that details your protocol.

Are you here to criticize the JREF, or to apply? If you sincerely believe you have a paranormal ability, why are you so hesitant to detail it? I would love to see you apply and take the challenge, but it seems that you are your own worst enemy in that regard.

The challenge is not for feats of mentalism or magic, it's for paranormal claims. There have been mutually agreed upon protocols in the past we can show you. If you sincerely think you can demonstrate something truly paranormal, please let's have the details. If not, I think you can save yourself and us some time and energy by not posting on the MDC forum--maybe the general paranormal forum here my be better.

[RemieV]

Looks like an Alison Smith is going to use a Franks box to get EVP's at a haunted portal.
Sounds incredibly similar to my MDC protocol!!!!!! :)
Maybe it isn't a sham. Maybe it's a TV script rip off?

Be sure to tune in for fear and fun.

http://www.trutv.com/shows/upcoming_specials/index.html

[RoboTimbo]

Be sure to tune in for fear and fun.

http://www.trutv.com/shows/upcoming_specials/index.html


Thanks for the link, RemieV! I have it set up for a season pass on Tivo.
Cool for you! How many episodes have you filmed?

Maybe your show should have it's own link? Get it away from TP's nonsense.

[Tricky]

Three mod boxes and people are still ignoring the topic? Okay. Regrettably, this thread is moved to "moderated" status.

[RoboTimbo]

Three mod boxes and people are still ignoring the topic? Okay. Regrettably, this thread is moved to "moderated" status.

Link to new thread for Door to the Dead (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4413896#post4413896).

[Limbo]

I think "sham" may be a bit strong, but at the same time I don't think the MDC means much.

"I agree, the million-dollar challenge is not, in any way, a "meaningful test," nor have I ever represented that it is.

That was your suggestion, not mine.

It is, however, the single greatest hurdle faced by those who claim paranormal abilities, and the wisest of them - Geller, John Edward, Sylvia Browne - have opted to simply ignore it, though they could easily and swiftly snap it up - IF they have the powers they claim." -James Randi

http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2008/12/reply-to-james-randi.html

Randi seems to be saying two different things here. I mean, is it meaningful, OR is it a great hurdle? Hurdles are "meaningless", yet Randi clearly says it is not a meaningful test IN ANY WAY.

[Czarcasm]

Who are these writers that claim that the MDC is a sham?

[William Smith]

The Professor, do your writers have evidence that the MDC is a sham?

[jj]

Three mod boxes and people are still ignoring the topic? Okay. Regrettably, this thread is moved to "moderated" status.

Ok, I'll try. What is this "writers" thing all about? I've seen multiple references to his "writers" but never anything written, at least that I'm aware of.

So, to help get back on track, what IS this about "writers" anyhoo?

[eirik]

MY writers claims that Koenigs writers are a pack of scallywags. They actually wrote it. On paper. Now I don't know WHO to trust. Who are my team of writers? I'm not at liberty to say. They prefer to lurk in the shadows.

My writers is, like Daves, actually most talk, they don't actually write that much. They are more like ninja. By the way, my team of secret professional writers are in the same secret anonymous ninja writers club with Daves team.

I'll just say this Dave: don't trust them. I know they are up to something. Something just don't feel right.

[William Smith]

Ok, I'll try. What is this "writers" thing all about? I've seen multiple references to his "writers" but never anything written, at least that I'm aware of.

So, to help get back on track, what IS this about "writers" anyhoo?

The Professor said he hired a team of writers to help him with the protocol for his claim.

These writers may be an invention on The Professor's part or they may actually exist. We have no evidence for either way.

At one point, The Professor wrote his writers claimed the MDC is a sham.

I started this thread to give The Professor - or his writers - a place to express their point of view and provide evidence for their claim. Because if I saw a point in said evidence I would want to ask the JREF some questions. And if the evidence is never provided I would want the baseless claim to be documented in this thread.

[jj]

The Professor said he hired a team of writers to help him with the protocol for his claim.

These writers may be an invention on The Professor's part or they may actually exist. We have no evidence for either way.

At one point, The Professor wrote his writers claimed the MDC is a sham.

I started this thread to give The Professor - or his writers - a place to express their point of view and provide evidence for their claim. Because if I saw a point in said evidence I would want to ask the JREF some questions. And if the evidence is never provided I would want the baseless claim to be documented in this thread.

Why in the name of all that isn't holy would you ask WRITERS to make a protocol for an experiment using scientific protocols? WRITERS!? Hire scientists, hire a lawyer to go over the language, find someone with an understanding of statistics and experimental protocol, but a WRITER!?!?

I am extremely confused. However, I doubt I'm confused in the way that the "professor" wants his readers to be confused. This starts to reek of playing to a third party or parties here.

I doubt I'll have more to say here. Sorry to bother y'all.

[Azrael 5]

Here we are some months later and still no evidence of any writers.Much like TP's claim to have proof of EVP's.

Empty.

[Hitch]

I think "sham" may be a bit strong, but at the same time I don't think the MDC means much.

"I agree, the million-dollar challenge is not, in any way, a "meaningful test," nor have I ever represented that it is.

That was your suggestion, not mine.

It is, however, the single greatest hurdle faced by those who claim paranormal abilities, and the wisest of them - Geller, John Edward, Sylvia Browne - have opted to simply ignore it, though they could easily and swiftly snap it up - IF they have the powers they claim." -James Randi

http://monkeywah.typepad.com/paranormalia/2008/12/reply-to-james-randi.html

Randi seems to be saying two different things here. I mean, is it meaningful, OR is it a great hurdle? Hurdles are "meaningless", yet Randi clearly says it is not a meaningful test IN ANY WAY.

Why can't Randi mean what he says while saying exactly what he means? And what does that say about paranormalists? The challenge is trivial and meaningless in any scientific way and yet it still remains as an insurmountable hurdle to those who claim paranormal abilities. How pathetic would they look up against true scientific rigor.

Here Randi offers to hand them $1 million if they simply pass a test that they make up themselves. All the JREF does is make sure they don't cheat. And yet they fail every time. When they don't simply run in fear of anyone watching what they actually do.

Sham it may be, but The Professor doesn't have the writers, or the ability, to penetrate it. So his writers are left in the role of apologists to try to explain his lack of results. So far they've failed to impress on that count as well.

[Limbo]

Why can't Randi mean what he says while saying exactly what he means? And what does that say about paranormalists? The challenge is trivial and meaningless in any scientific way and yet it still remains as an insurmountable hurdle to those who claim paranormal abilities. How pathetic would they look up against true scientific rigor.

Here Randi offers to hand them $1 million if they simply pass a test that they make up themselves. All the JREF does is make sure they don't cheat. And yet they fail every time. When they don't simply run in fear of anyone watching what they actually do.

Sham it may be, but The Professor doesn't have the writers, or the ability, to penetrate it. So his writers are left in the role of apologists to try to explain his lack of results. So far they've failed to impress on that count as well.


So it's meaningful. But not scientific.

[jj]

Why can't Randi mean what he says while saying exactly what he means? And what does that say about paranormalists? The challenge is trivial and meaningless in any scientific way and yet it still remains as an insurmountable hurdle to those who claim paranormal abilities. How pathetic would they look up against true scientific rigor.

This is something that maybe ought to be pointed out more often and more emphatically, if possible. The MDC is very simple compared to a real scientific test, yet people complain it's a sham, etc.

However, many people manage to deal with the scientific issues just fine, as evidences the number of papers I read, review, write, etc. There's no shortage of input to any of the journals I deal with, despite the peer review, method review, language review, etc.

[The Professor]

Here Randi offers to hand them $1 million if they simply pass a test that they make up themselves. All the JREF does is make sure they don't cheat. And yet they fail every time. When they don't simply run in fear of anyone watching what they actually do.


This is not true.
I worked out a protocol and Alison Smith of the JREF used it for her TV show :)

[rjh01]

Here Randi offers to hand them $1 million if they simply pass a test that they make up themselves. All the JREF does is make sure they don't cheat. And yet they fail every time. When they don't simply run in fear of anyone watching what they actually do.


This is not true.
I worked out a protocol and Alison Smith of the JREF used it for her TV show :)

Just to clarify what I think the Professor is trying to say.

This statement is true.
Here Randi offers to hand them $1 million if they simply pass a test, that shows they may have some paranormal ability, that they make up themselves. All the JREF does is make sure they don't cheat. And yet they fail every time. When they don't simply run in fear of anyone watching what they actually do.


This statement is not true.
I [The Professor, without the help of anyone else] worked out a protocol and Alison Smith of the JREF used it for her TV show.

[Czarcasm]

Since The Professor doesn't seem to be seeing my posts, could someone please ask him, "Who are these writers that claim that the MDC is a sham?"

[Bob Klase]

Just to clarify what I think the Professor is trying to say.

This statement is true.
Here Randi offers to hand them $1 million if they simply pass a test, that shows they may have some paranormal ability, that they make up themselves. All the JREF does is make sure they don't cheat. And yet they fail every time. When they don't simply run in fear of anyone watching what they actually do.

That statement is just evidence that the professor doesn't know how to use quotation marks (or the quote box). That exact paragraph was written by Hitch 3 posts above the professors.

[fromdownunder]

This is not true.
I worked out a protocol and Alison Smith of the JREF used it for her TV show :)

Evidence?

Norm

[RoboTimbo]

Since The Professor doesn't seem to be seeing my posts, could someone please ask him, "Who are these writers that claim that the MDC is a sham?"

The Professor can't see anyone's posts if they ask "Who are these writers?"

The Professor, who are these writers who claim that the MDC is a sham? You've made reference to them many times in multiple threads but nobody has seen or heard from them except you. I'm almost afraid to ask, are they invisible or can you only see them when nobody else is around? Are they deceased and you have to use a wonky radio to hear them but only on Halloween? Were they arrested on Halloween and are still in the hoosegow?

[Hindmost]

Can anyone tell me why these "writers" are the universal standard for judging the MDC?

glenn

[fromdownunder]

Can anyone tell me why these "writers" are the universal standard for judging the MDC?

glenn

I would be more interested in finding out why these writers are incapable of signing on to a BB - here, The Magic Cafe, anywhere, and speaking for themselves.

Computer illiterate?

Norm

[steenkh]

I would be more interested in finding out why these writers are incapable of signing on to a BB - here, The Magic Cafe, anywhere, and speaking for themselves.

Computer illiterate?
Non-existent people generally do not sign up on internet forums.

[Hitch]

I would be more interested in finding out why these writers are incapable of signing on to a BB - here, The Magic Cafe, anywhere, and speaking for themselves.

Computer illiterate?

Norm

There's been some speculation that they are less than 100% existent.

[Azrael 5]

When the Media Expose' comes out, you'll have your answers. Perhaps you'll be used as an example :)

Well it's been almost 4 months,have I missed this expose? Thought it worth bumping.:)

[Mojo]

There's been some speculation that they are less than 100% existent.


I think the preferred term these days is "existentially challenged".

[gdnp]

5 months, still no writers. Still no EVPs.

We know you are still here, professor, as you continue to post on the exploits of your son's band.

When can we expect you to make good on your claims?

[The Professor]

The writers obviously are not going to get involved until all is ready.
Edited for moderated thread. Keep posts on topic.

[Azrael 5]

The writers obviously are not going to get involved until all is ready.
Edited for moderated thread. Keep posts on topic.
Yet you claimed they were actively working with you previously. Which is it? :cool:

[Azrael 5]

Any sign of the writer's yet? Or a media expose.

Edited for topic