My fears for this economy.

[BenBurch]

Listening to financial analysts this morning, and, WOW do things sound bad.

If what they were saying is at all true, I see this sort of thing coming;

1. "Bail Out" will fail to restore lending, and may make matters drastically worse.

2. Holiday season will founder.

3. Massive job losses, up to 20% unemployment.

4. Failure of many major retailers.

5. Tax revenues down, forcing major cuts of government spending until major tax increases can be levied against those in the upper two brackets.

6. Very high bankruptcy rate.

7. Very high foreclosure rate.

8. Foreclosed assets will fail to be maintained, and will lose nearly all value.

9. Government will be unable to sell bonds.

In other words, a Great Depression.

And I do not see a way out.

Thanks SO MUCH to the GOP for the wonderful state they are leaving everything in.

[dudalb]

And of the course the Democrats are spotless lambs in all of this.
Just another Partisan rant from Ben.

[Francesca R]

Brilliantly argued, sceptically-minded and critically-thunk OP. *clap* (Except for all of it)

[Bob Blaylock]

5. Tax revenues down, forcing major cuts of government spending until major tax increases can be levied against those in the upper two brackets.


It seems to me that a good working definition of a “Liberal” in the context of U.S. politics is someone who thinks that the best solution to any problem is more taxes (especially on “The Rich”) and more government spending, and in general, having the government impose more and more of a burden on the people and the economy.

[liverleef]

You know there is plenty of blame to go around, including on Democrats and their old friend Fannie Mae. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE7DB153EF933A0575AC0A96F9582 60)

[dudalb]

Ben's political philosophy:

Democrats are GOOD.
Republicans are BAD.
Repeat ad infinitum.

Of course you have plenty whose philosophy is.

Republicans are GOOD.
Democrats are BAD
Repeat ad infinum

A plague on both their houses.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

That's why we have Democrats and Republicans... so maybe, just maybe, they can wear the sharp edges off of each other before things get too cut up and bloody.

[MIKILLINI]

Actually the biggest mistake of out of all this is taking advice from people like Henry Paulson, Phil Gramm on the Republican side and Rick Rubin on the Democrat side.
Their similar economic policies are not favorable to the middle class, but it is now the middle class once again having to shoulder the burden.

[ServiceSoon]

5. Tax revenues down, forcing major cuts of government spending until major tax increases can be levied against those in the upper two brackets.I don't think this will happen. Can't the government just print more money to keep government running? I do recall that Michigan had a budget crisis and they ended up sending government employees home until a solution was found. The solution was to increase taxes on "certain" services. California has warned the USA Treasury Department that they might need to borrow $7B.

[BenBurch]

I don't think this will happen. Can't the government just print more money to keep government running? I do recall that Michigan had a budget crisis and they ended up sending government employees home until a solution was found. The solution was to increase taxes on "certain" services. California has warned the USA Treasury Department that they might need to borrow $7B.

The Weimar Republic tried the "print money" route when they were similarly strapped with war debts they could not pay. Here was the result;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/Inflation-1923.jpg

The currency was worth more as heating fuel than as currency. My relatives lived through this, and I was told about it in some detail as a child. It was not pretty.

[BenBurch]

Ben's political philosophy:

Democrats are GOOD.
Republicans are BAD.
Repeat ad infinitum.

Of course you have plenty whose philosophy is.

Republicans are GOOD.
Democrats are BAD
Repeat ad infinum

A plague on both their houses.

I don't make personal attacks on you, and I don't put words in your mouth, and I would thank you to pay me the same courtesy.

I don't think Democrats are an unmitigated good, but you are right, I think the Repubs are corrupt beyond redemption, and I hope that the Libertarians take over as the party of the Right as I still respect them.

[dudalb]

I don't think Democrats are an unmitigated good, but you are right, I think the Repubs are corrupt beyond redemption, and I hope that the Libertarians take over as the party of the Right as I still respect them.

And since the Libertarians are so far out there that they have about as much chance of being elected to office as a snowball in hell, that would leave the Democrats as the only major party in the US, and the US as a defacto one party nation, and the political left in total control.
Cute, really,cute.

[Blackadder]

how about:

Republicans Bad
Democrats Bad

let's start again from scratch.

[Crowlogic]

It seems to me that a good working definition of a “Liberal” in the context of U.S. politics is someone who thinks that the best solution to any problem is more taxes (especially on “The Rich”) and more government spending, and in general, having the government impose more and more of a burden on the people and the economy.

Well I'm a liberial. A dyed in the wool liberial. The worst kind of liberial because I'm educated and well read. But my definition of liberial isn't tax and spend. Tax and spend is the definition that Regressive Right Wingers
have attached to liberials. As a liberial my definition liberial is comming to the aide of those in need of defense. And gosh darn it (I'm just being folksy kids) there are a heck of a lot of people in need right now and by golly I didn't spend 2 years in the peace corps to just sit back in middle age, count my blessings and pat myslef on my liberal back and say job well done Crow.

But guess what Mr & MS Regressive Necon you've had your day. You rose to power, you feathered your Necon nests and peddled your Neocon dribble for a good long time. Buts its over now its done you pissed it away your McMansion is burning and shucks nobody gives a fig. Not France, not Mexico, not China and not Japan and oh by the way not me either. But not to worry too much. The Gentleman who steps into the Oval office in February is simply a Democrat, not a liberial. Yet taxes are going to go up, rest assured they will. However consider this taxes that are plowed back into society have a tangable benifit. Maybe if we're lucky it'll be possible for poor folks to get something that resembles real health care. Maybe it'll be possible that middle class people struggling will be able to get real health care. Maybe some of our deathtrap bridges, roads and tunnels will get the long overdue attention they need. And maybe just maybe we'll fund a few new industries that in turn will inspire a new interest in science. I hope so since we are well on the way to becoming a nation of dullards. But dullards make good cannon fodder, hell the dumbing down of America has worked perfectly for the Neocons. The US Military has become the employer of last resort now that we don't make anything here anymore. Yessir we've go cannon fodder to feed the Neocon war agenda. Hmmm come to think of it we've just about run out of cannon fodder too!

[dudalb]

how about:

Republicans Bad
Democrats Bad

let's start again from scratch.


I could sign on to that, except the US Third Parties are pretty much a collection of loons.

[dudalb]

Well I'm a liberial. A dyed in the wool liberial. The worst kind of liberial because I'm educated and well read. But my definition of liberial isn't tax and spend. Tax and spend is the definition that Regressive Right Wingers
have attached to liberials. As a liberial my definition liberial is comming to the aide of those in need of defense. And gosh darn it (I'm just being folksy kids) there are a heck of a lot of people in need right now and by golly I didn't spend 2 years in the peace corps to just sit back in middle age, count my blessings and pat myslef on my liberal back and say job well done Crow.

But guess what Mr & MS Regressive Necon you've had your day. You rose to power, you feathered your Necon nests and peddled your Neocon dribble for a good long time. Buts its over now its done you pissed it away your McMansion is burning and shucks nobody gives a fig. Not France, not Mexico, not China and not Japan and oh by the way not me either. But not to worry too much. The Gentleman who steps into the Oval office in February is simply a Democrat, not a liberial. Yet taxes are going to go up, rest assured they will. However consider this taxes that are plowed back into society have a tangable benifit. Maybe if we're lucky it'll be possible for poor folks to get something that resembles real health care. Maybe it'll be possible that middle class people struggling will be able to get real health care. Maybe some of our deathtrap bridges, roads and tunnels will get the long overdue attention they need. And maybe just maybe we'll fund a few new industries that in turn will inspire a new interest in science. I hope so since we are well on the way to becoming a nation of dullards. But dullards make good cannon fodder, hell the dumbing down of America has worked perfectly for the Neocons. The US Military has become the employer of last resort now that we don't make anything here anymore. Yessir we've go cannon fodder to feed the Neocon war agenda. Hmmm come to think of it we've just about run out of cannon fodder too!


You are coming off like a conservative Parody of a liberal.

[Crowlogic]

You are coming off like a conservative Parody of a liberal.


Perhaps you should get out more?

[BenBurch]

And since the Libertarians are so far out there that they have about as much chance of being elected to office as a snowball in hell, that would leave the Democrats as the only major party in the US, and the US as a defacto one party nation, and the political left in total control.
Cute, really,cute.

Libertarians too weird?

I don't think you have read much on Libertarianism. I was there in the beginning, almost. I worked on Roger McBride's campaign in '76.

Though the Libertarians have their "kook" element, there is a respectable mainstream Libertarianism that is nowhere near as crazy as mainstream Republicanism, if in fact you can even figure out what Republicans stand for.

Whereas it is not hard at all to know what the LP stands for;

http://www.lp.org/platform

Have you read it?

If not, why not?

[PixyMisa]

You are coming off like a conservative Parody of a liberal.
Poe's Law strikes again!

[Gurdur]

....... there is a respectable mainstream Libertarianism .... Whereas it is not hard at all to know what the LP stands for;



It seems extremely odd to describe a party that can never get even 2% of the federal vote as "respectable mainstream".

[Chaos]

Libertarians too weird?

I don't think you have read much on Libertarianism. I was there in the beginning, almost. I worked on Roger McBride's campaign in '76.

Though the Libertarians have their "kook" element, there is a respectable mainstream Libertarianism that is nowhere near as crazy as mainstream Republicanism, if in fact you can even figure out what Republicans stand for.

Whereas it is not hard at all to know what the LP stands for;

http://www.lp.org/platform

Have you read it?

If not, why not?

Frankly, you can stick that official platform and those "respectable mainstream" Libertarians which are almost as commonplace as the Sasquatch up where the sun doesn´t shine.

According to Chaos´ Law of the Representativeness of Representatives, you can conclusively judge the nature of a political party from the nature of the candidates they endorse for important political offices - such as, I don´t know, maybe President of the United States for example. And considering the candidates I´ve seen (and that´s not even counting Ron Paul, who is merely a LP candidate honoris causa) the Libertarian Party is indeed run by nutcases, for nutcases, and it would be an unmitigated disaster if they ever came to power. Yes, I mean a disaster in excess of what the Republicans have done. WAY in excess of that.

[Francesca R]

Economics, business or finance, this ain't . . .

[BenBurch]

Economics, business or finance, this ain't . . .

In what way isn't my OP about those things?

And I know you think everything is going to be just peachy-keen, so come back to this thread in six months and we'll see. I hope I am wrong, but I think the bad stuff is just starting.

[WildCat]

And considering the candidates I´ve seen (and that´s not even counting Ron Paul, who is merely a LP candidate honoris causa) the Libertarian Party is indeed run by nutcases, for nutcases, and it would be an unmitigated disaster if they ever came to power.
Right on Chaos!

Badnarik anyone?

[WildCat]

In what way isn't my OP about those things?
None of it. It's a rant by a partisan hack withour basis in reality. The current economic mess was created by both parties tripping over themselves to appease their constituents, the Dems and their "loans for all regardless of ability to pay" and the GOP with their out of control spending over the first 6 years of Bush. The Dem-controlled Congress gets the credit for continuing irresponsible spending the last 2.

But all you want to do is spin this into partisan political nonsense which won't help things one bit. Washington being a Dem-only monopoly won't turn out any better than it has here in Cook County, which is a disaster of the highest order with out of control spending and ridiculous tax rates and fat contracts and do-nothing government jobs for friends and family of the Dem machine. You'd think you'd know better than this Ben, but apparently you don't even though you live close enough to it to taste the stench.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone living in Illinois can be a hack of either party because they're both thoroughly corrupt.

[LibraryLady]

I've moved this thread to Politics where I think it will be better served.

[HereticHulk]

how about:

Republicans Bad
Democrats Bad

let's start again from scratch.

Bingo!

[HereticHulk]

I could sign on to that, except the US Third Parties are pretty much a collection of loons.

Loons how? With the exclusion of McKinney of course with her recent revelations.

Maybe it is because the 3rd parties are offering a different way forward that doesn't toe the line of the Dems and Reps?

[BenBurch]

Loons how? With the exclusion of McKinney of course with her recent revelations.

Maybe it is because the 3rd parties are offering a different way forward that doesn't toe the line of the Dems and Reps?

What did Cynthia do NOW?

[gtc]

Claimed the US government executed 5,000 black men during Katrina.
There is a thread and a video floating around about it somewhere. Worth watching.

[BenBurch]

Claimed the US government executed 5,000 black men during Katrina.
There is a thread and a video floating around about it somewhere. Worth watching.

I'd say "Oh dear god" if I believed in one.

[Tippit]

Listening to financial analysts this morning, and, WOW do things sound bad.

If what they were saying is at all true, I see this sort of thing coming;

1. "Bail Out" will fail to restore lending, and may make matters drastically worse.



Why would it? The reason we're staring into the abyss is because of cumulative inflation by the Federal Reserve for nearly a couple of decades now. More debt based fiat money cannot be the solution, since it was the cause.

The proposed effects of the bankster bailout are likely overrated, considering the Fed has already bailed out banks to the tune of over $1 trillion since this mess began to unravel in March.

The problem doesn't lie on the supply side of liquidity, the world is awash in depreciating US dollars. The problem is, that the first domino in the malinvestment caused by the boom phase of this business cycle - the real estate market, has begun to fall. The virtuous cycle of consumers monetizing their homes for consumer goods will now become a vicious cycle of bankruptcy and foreclosure.



Thanks SO MUCH to the GOP for the wonderful state they are leaving everything in.

It's not a political problem, it's a systemic monetary problem. The current administration as contemptible as they are, are no more responsible for this than the previous contemptible administration.

[The Painter]

Badnarik anyone?

I'm a 0%er.

[HereticHulk]

Worth watching.

No, its not.

[HereticHulk]

It's not a political problem, it's a systemic monetary problem. The current administration as contemptible as they are, are no more responsible for this than the previous contemptible administration.

Well said!

[GreyICE]

Libertarians too weird?

I don't think you have read much on Libertarianism. I was there in the beginning, almost. I worked on Roger McBride's campaign in '76.

Though the Libertarians have their "kook" element, there is a respectable mainstream Libertarianism that is nowhere near as crazy as mainstream Republicanism, if in fact you can even figure out what Republicans stand for.

Whereas it is not hard at all to know what the LP stands for;

http://www.lp.org/platform

Have you read it?

If not, why not? Oh come on. Having gone to libertarian meetings, I assure you the kook wing of the party is big and vocal. You know, the abolish taxes, abolish welfare, abolish healthcare and the invisible magical hand of the invisible pink unicorn will save us all crowd.

Edit: Case in point is posting right above me apparently.

[Hindmost]

Future historians may see this as the start of a world wide economic downturn and the tipping point for the US.

The world economy has been built on "infinite" natural resources, greed and technology. Technology will continue to provide some answers, but will be too little too late. Resource management will not keep pace with world needs--especially with respect to energy.

The US has its own set of issues now with essentially a 10 trillion dollar deficit. Draconian spending cuts will be needed as revenue drops. The US certainly won't be able to pay for wars, social security and infrastructure as in the past.

Unemployment will likely increase to levels not seen in a long time reducing tax revenues when deficits at all government levels are common. There is no emphasis in the US to change anything with respect to business and resource management. Too many will think capitalism will solve everything--a few loans and we're good.

As far as the political issue...blame all sides...neither party could control their spending or their partisanship. Sufficient stupidity on all sides.

Next, the auto industry will knock on the treasurie's door.

glenn

[MIKILLINI]

We can thank those who repealed the Glass-Steagall Act (Enacted in 1933) and signed in 1999 by President Clinton :

REPUBLICANS FOR (52): Abraham, Allard, Ashcroft, Bennett, Brownback, Bond, Bunning, Burns, Campbell, Chafee, Cochran, Collins, Coverdell, Craig, Crapo, DeWine, Domenici, Enzi, Frist, Gorton, Gramm (Tex.), Grams (Minn.), Grassley, Gregg, Hegel, Hatch, Helms, Hutchinson (Ark.), Hutchison (Tex.), Inhofe, Jeffords, Kyl, Lott, Lugar, Mack, McConnell, Murkowski, Nickles, Roberts, Roth, Santorum, Sessions, Smith (N.H.), Smith (Ore.), Snowe, Specter, Stevens, Thomas, Thompson, Thurmond, Voinovich and Warner. DEMOCRATS FOR (38): Akaka, Baucus, Bayh, Biden, Bingaman, Breaux, Byrd, Cleland, Conrad, Daschle, Dodd, Durbin, Edwards, Feinstein, Graham (Fla.), Hollings, Inouye, Johnson, Kennedy, Kerrey (Neb.), Kerry (Mass.), Kohl, Landrieu, Lautenberg, Leahy, Levin, Lieberman, Lincoln, Moynihan, Murray, Reed (R.L), Reid (Nev.), Robb, Rockefeller, Sarbanes, Schumer, Torricelli and Wyden.

REPUBLICANS AGAINST(1): Shelby.

DEMOCRATS AGAINST(7): Boxer, Bryan, Dorgan, Feingold, Harkin, Mikulski and Wellstone.

NOT VOTING: 2 REPUBLICANS (2): Fitzgerald (voted present) and McCain.

The House Democrats were no less enthusiastic in their endorsement of this invitation to plunder--the repeal passed there by a margin of 343-86, with the Dem Party favoring the measure by a two-to-one margin, 138-69. Current House speaker Nancy Pelosi managed not to register a vote on this one.

The repeal enabled commercial lenders such as Citigroup, the largest U.S. bank by assets, to underwrite and trade instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and collateralized debt obligations and establish so-called structured investment vehicles, or SIVs, that bought those securities. Citigroup played a major part in the repeal. Then called Citicorp, the company merged with Travelers Insurance company the year before using loopholes in Glass-Steagall that allowed for temporary exemptions. With lobbying led by Roger Levy, the finance, insurance and real estate industries together were regularly the largest campaign contributors and biggest spenders on lobbying of all business sectors in 1999. They laid out more than $200 million for lobbying in 1998, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. These industries succeeded in their two decades long effort to repeal the act.

[Nyarlathotep]

how about:

Republicans Bad
Democrats Bad

let's start again from scratch.

I will second that.

As a wise man (Louis Black) once said "The only thing worse than a Republican or a Democrat is when those F***s decide to work together"

[MIKILLINI]

<Snip>
Frankly, I don't see how anyone living in Illinois can be a hack of either party because they're both thoroughly corrupt.

I thoroughly agree and people will soon see how corrupted Obama and McCain are, if they haven't noticed yet.

[Nyarlathotep]

Frankly, you can stick that official platform and those "respectable mainstream" Libertarians which are almost as commonplace as the Sasquatch up where the sun doesn´t shine.

Why do you want to send them to Seattle?

But otherwise I agree. Sadly, the 'thrid parties' in this ountry have become a haven for fringe nutjobs. Unfortunately, it creates a vicious circle and a self-fulfilling prophecy: People don't want to vote for third parties because of the loons and non-loons won't run for office as third party candidates because they want to, you know, have a real chance of getting elected and stuff.

Catch-22.

[BenBurch]

500 points down for the Dow. UNDER 10,0000.

[GreyICE]

500 points down for the Dow. UNDER 10,0000.

But it's OVER 9000!

[BenBurch]

But it's OVER 9000!

TBtpyeLxVkI

[BenBurch]

Oil under $89/bbl!!! The wheels of the world really are grinding to a halt!

[Sword_Of_Truth]

But it's OVER 9000! TBtpyeLxVkI

And thus did the Politics section of the JREF forums complete its metamorphosis into the World of Warcraft Off-Topic forum.

[GreyICE]

And thus did the Politics section of the JREF forums complete its metamorphosis into the World of Warcraft Off-Topic forum.

OMG! U R N00b. ROUGES ARE FARE, Nerf W4rr1or! OMG WARRIOR R OVERPWRED. Bliz h8 rouges. LRN to PVP

[Toke]

It sounds to me like the bailout is just another ripoff of the taxpayers.
The people who put you in this mess will be controlling the money, and most likely give them to their friends.

In a few weeks/months you will be told that the bailout was great but we need just a little more, like another 700.

[BenBurch]

Dow keeps falling. 8579 today. Down 7 and a third percent. GM is failing. Tomorrow will likely be a blood bath too as who wants to hold on to a position over the weekend when you know that announcements of failures usually wait til market close on Friday?

Anybody believe me yet?

We have a disaster on our hands.

[GreyICE]

Dow keeps falling. 8579 today. Down 7 and a third percent. GM is failing. Tomorrow will likely be a blood bath too as who wants to hold on to a position over the weekend when you know that announcements of failures usually wait til market close on Friday?

Anybody believe me yet?

We have a disaster on our hands.
Yeah. This is the worst that the market has been in... ever. This might be another repeat of black friday.

[Hindmost]

As I post this, Asia is not doing so well right now.

glenn

[BenBurch]

As I post this, Asia is not doing so well right now.

glenn

No, its not. Down 11% in most indexes.

Add I read that Iceland is bankrupt, and asking Russia for help.

Bjork promised them she would never sing again if they would help.

OK, I added that last part.

[BenBurch]

Actually just looked again and 8% is the average down right now. I swear I heard the news guy say 11%.

[BenBurch]

Dow down today but there was an attempt to rally likely due to people bottom fishing. We might close under 8000 if this trend continues, bit that is one of those psychological support levels so it might hover just above there as people convinced 8000 is bottom buy.

Listening to the analysts, I think 6000 is closer to a likely bottom as things stand.

[richardm]

Oil under $89/bbl!!!

Wasn't everyone bleating about how expensive oil was, earlier in the year? This is a good development, surely?

[Axiom_Blade]

Why do you want to send them to Seattle?

But otherwise I agree. Sadly, the 'thrid parties' in this ountry have become a haven for fringe nutjobs. Unfortunately, it creates a vicious circle and a self-fulfilling prophecy: People don't want to vote for third parties because of the loons and non-loons won't run for office as third party candidates because they want to, you know, have a real chance of getting elected and stuff.

If you want to read more about this, check out the Wikipedia articles on Duverger's Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law) and Instant Runoff Voting. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRV) I think that using an IRV system would be a big step towards fixing the problems with the US electoral system. Having a parliament would help a lot, too. (Incidentally, the Dems would convince me they were serious about all this "spoiler" stuff if they would endorse something like IRV, instead of trying to kick third party candidates off of ballots.)
There are citizen groups lobbying for IRV around the country, maybe one in your area! Check out Fairvote (http://www.fairvote.org/) for more info.

Now, I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of kooks in the third parties, but there's also a lot of very sane people, too. (The sane ones get very little attention from the media, though.) Just do some research, and vote for the people you agree with. Simple as that.

People in the US tend to vote for whoever's most "electable", which is much different. Then they wonder why the economy's in the toilet. If you vote for somebody who's corrupt, just because he seems less corrupt then the other guy... what do you think's going to happen?

[BenBurch]

Wasn't everyone bleating about how expensive oil was, earlier in the year? This is a good development, surely?

Its a very mixed blessing;

1. It shows DEMAND falling not supply expanding. This is a more sure indicator of the strength of the global economy than anything else.

2. It might help with recovery as at least when you go back to production it will initially be cheap.

3. Many investors and institutions have been using oil as a hedge against this market. Ooops!

4. As the price falls so does the desire to explore and drill where it is very expensive, limiting the supply when things do recover.

5. As the price falls, alternative energy investment will too even though the reality of peak oil is only deferred by the drop.

[BenBurch]

Touched under 8000 briefly;

[Polaris]

Next, the auto industry will knock on the treasurie's door.

glenn

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080928164938.dtc44u1c&show_article=1&lst=1

[BenBurch]

Looks like another bloodbath today. :(

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

We might be seeing more than just a "simple" turmoil in the markets. In more than a way, it is the end of an era.

[Toke]

We might be seeing more than just a "simple" turmoil in the markets. In more than a way, it is the end of an era.

Somehow I don´t think america will grow enough sense to go for european style socialism.
Like in more even wealth distribution and taxes enough to pay for healthcare and education.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Somehow I don´t think america will grow enough sense to go for european style socialism.
Like in more even wealth distribution and taxes enough to pay for healthcare and education.

Agreed, it would be the pinnacle of "odd". Still, it is clear that the philosophy behind the "free markets" theory just collapsed in front of our own eyes. Something needs to change significantly after this. Repercussions will last for a decade.

[Toke]

There will be plenty people trying to tell you that the free marked was simply not free enough. It will be the people with the money and the media.

I worry that a capitalist theocracy is more likely than new deal.

[Hindmost]

There will be plenty people trying to tell you that the free marked was simply not free enough. It will be the people with the money and the media.

I worry that a capitalist theocracy is more likely than new deal.

I have met some people blaming Obama for the economic downturn...it is very depressing.

glenn

[BenBurch]

I have met some people blaming Obama for the economic downturn...it is very depressing.

glenn

Everything that went wrong on W's watch before now was Clinton's fault, now, things that happen even before Obama takes office are his...

Republicans are simply not the party of personal responsibility. Like a child with borderline personality disorder, everything that goes wrong, no matter how intimately they are connected to it, is somebody else's fault.

[Hindmost]

Everything that went wrong on W's watch before now was Clinton's fault, now, things that happen even before Obama takes office are his...

Republicans are simply not the party of personal responsibility. Like a child with borderline personality disorder, everything that goes wrong, no matter how intimately they are connected to it, is somebody else's fault.

Eight years ago,the market was at about 10,500...the deficit was going down and the economy in reasonable shape. Now, the deficit has doubled, the economy is tanking and the DOW is dropping and I still hear how great Bush is. I really can't understand the logic.

How we are going to get out of this spiral, I don't know--but increased spending by the govt in bailout packages won't help the deficit and is ultimately self defeating--especially considering the demographic shift in the US that is rapidly approaching. I really feel there has been a shift in the world economy that past practices won't be able to straighten out. Cheaper oil will help in the interim, but the next few years may be tough...and I am sure Obama will be blamed.

glenn

[Francesca R]

Hmmm, market's flat today. I would say that if it can avoid a fall today and hopefully tomorrow then that's an important basing formation. Not infallible since it sometimes gets followed by renewed falls, but then you just need to reset the Elliott wave count and do a Fourier transformation and a fast spin cycle (with a twist).

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Eight years ago,the market was at about 10,500...the deficit was going down and the economy in reasonable shape. Now, the deficit has doubled, the economy is tanking and the DOW is dropping and I still hear how great Bush is. I really can't understand the logic.

It is called "redneck fanboyism" not logic.

[Hindmost]

It is called "redneck fanboyism" not logic.

Choose and ideology and stop thinking. ah well. Whomever we elect in the US, the bipartisan stupidity will probably continue and nothing improve at a time when difficult decisions need to be made. I am tired of the rhetoric about taxes and the associated ideological battles.

glenn

[Darth Rotor]

I've moved this thread to Politics where I think it will be better served.
The first serve was out, to the left, so I await the second serve, with a lot of spin. :D

Oh, wait, did I hear the chair umpire rule the first serve a "let" and he gets a do-over?

DR

[Darth Rotor]

Eight years ago,the market was at about 10,500...the deficit was going down and the economy in reasonable shape. Now, the deficit has doubled, the economy is tanking and the DOW is dropping and I still hear how great Bush is.
Who is telling you how great Bush is?

His guns and butter approach to economics I've been irritated with since 2003. He's doing to us what Johnson did, so I guess the rule of thumb is: don't vote for a Texan for president. Which sucks, since I like Texans, but the trend line isn't good.

DR

[Hindmost]

Who is telling you how great Bush is?

His guns and butter approach to economics I've been irritated with since 2003. He's doing to us what Johnson did, so I guess the rule of thumb is: don't vote for a Texan for president. Which sucks, since I like Texans, but the trend line isn't good.

DR
Besides Ann Coulter...I work in an engineering office with a bunch of old engineers that tend to be conservative. I shake my head a lot when overhearing certain opinions. And I don't confront such things.

glenn

[Toke]

Hmmm, market's flat today. I would say that if it can avoid a fall today and hopefully tomorrow then that's an important basing formation. Not infallible since it sometimes gets followed by renewed falls, but then you just need to reset the Elliott wave count and do a Fourier transformation and a fast spin cycle (with a twist).


Nominated, much better than what gibberisc you see in the paper.