Astronaut's diary survives Columbia explosion - inside job, truthers?

[John Blonn]

JERUSALEM - Pages from an Israeli astronaut's diary that survived the explosion of the space shuttle Columbia and a 37-mile fall to earth are going on display this weekend for the first time in Jerusalem.The diary belonged to Ilan Ramon, Israel's first astronaut and one of seven crew members killed when Columbia disintegrated upon re-entering the atmosphere on Feb. 1, 2003....

The diary survived extreme heat in the explosion, extreme atmospheric cold, and then "was attacked by microorganisms and insects" in the field where it fell, said museum curator Yigal Zalmona. "It's almost a miracle that it survived — it's incredible," Zalmona said. There is "no rational explanation" for how it was recovered when most of the shuttle was not, he said.http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_astronaut_s_diary

Truthers often point to the claim that a 9/11 hijacker's passport was found on the streets of New York as further evidence of inside job. It just defies common sense that a passport would survive that plane crash and explosion, right?

Just like it defies common sense that the buildings collapsed as NIST and others claim, right?

Admit that the Columbia explosion was an 'inside job,' or drop the idiotic suggestion that the government would plant a passport on the street to...prove....something.

Also admit that 'common sense' doesn't mean jack when dealing with these types of events.

Uncommon phenomena occur in uncommon events.

[dudalb]

Mark my words, some CT kook will make a fuss that it was a Israeli whose diary survived.

[Quad4_72]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_astronaut_s_diary

Truthers often point to the claim that a 9/11 hijacker's passport was found on the streets of New York as further evidence of inside job. It just defies common sense that a passport would survive that plane crash and explosion, right?

Just like it defies common sense that the buildings collapsed as NIST and others claim, right?

Admit that the Columbia explosion was an 'inside job,' or drop the idiotic suggestion that the government would plant a passport on the street to...prove....something.

Also admit that 'common sense' doesn't mean jack when dealing with these types of events.

Uncommon phenomena occur in uncommon events.

You obviously have not heard of the NWO branch "Plant random evidence". We got a lot of people devoted to the planting of evidence.

[pomeroo]

Gee, you'd almost suspect that the way certain random objects survive disasters is, uh, random.

[Illustronic]

A lot of 'Miracles' have happened in/with Israel, so why am I surprised?

[HyJinX]

wow...that didn't take long, huh dudalb?

[T.A.M.]

I think there is an "Israeli Comment" Radar thingy. The minute someone somewhere mentions something gone wrong in the world, hundreds of nut jobs around the world hear a buzzer go off in their minds, telling them it is time to go spread some more hatred and blame it on "DA JOOS".

TAM:)

[liverleef]

Thats an excellent observaton. Thanks for posting

[Mince]

That's amazing, because I thought every inch of every paper product was always destroyed in a crash/fire. All that paper you saw falling from the WTC towers? Video fakery.

[Homeland Insurgency]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081003/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_astronaut_s_diary

Truthers often point to the claim that a 9/11 hijacker's passport was found on the streets of New York as further evidence of inside job. It just defies common sense that a passport would survive that plane crash and explosion, right?

Just like it defies common sense that the buildings collapsed as NIST and others claim, right?

Admit that the Columbia explosion was an 'inside job,' or drop the idiotic suggestion that the government would plant a passport on the street to...prove....something.

Also admit that 'common sense' doesn't mean jack when dealing with these types of events.

Uncommon phenomena occur in uncommon events.

And it was found just outside the town of Palestine TX?

Coincidence? I think not!

[Mince]

And it was found just outside the town of Palestine TX?

Coincidence? I think not!


What's your evidence that it was not a coincidence? Or are you just speculating and arguing from personal incredulity, like every argument any truther makes about 9/11?

[HyJinX]

And it was found just outside the town of Palestine TX?

Coincidence? I think not!

:rolleyes:

[Homeland Insurgency]

What's your evidence that it was not a coincidence? Or are you just speculating and arguing from personal incredulity, like every argument any truther makes about 9/11?

What's my evidence that it's not a coincidence? lol

[Mince]

What's my evidence that it's not a coincidence? lol


Exactly my point. lol

[Cl1mh4224rd]

What's your evidence that it was not a coincidence? Or are you just speculating and arguing from personal incredulity, like every argument any truther makes about 9/11?


He's joking...

[pomeroo]

He's joking...


Someone, preferably a professor of logic, should write a treatise explaining how to determine if a twoofer is joking.

[Mince]

He's joking...


I wonder. Perhaps I'm a little too uptight, but, as pomeroo elucidated above, often their jokes are very similar to their seriousness.

[Horatius]

And it was found just outside the town of Palestine TX?

Coincidence? I think not!


I wonder. Perhaps I'm a little too uptight, but, as pomeroo elucidated above, often their jokes are very similar to their seriousness.



Yeah, I'm gonna go with, "HI just whooshed you guys". I know it's unusual, but every once in a while, some CT actually shows an actual sense of humour.


HI: Nice one, you really got them!

[UNLoVedRebel]

So now the USG is trying to pass off a controlled demolition as "damage from foam".

[njslim]

Diary from Israeli astronaut? Does that mean "da Joos" did it?

[T.A.M.]

wrong thread

TAM:)

[Dave Rogers]

Someone, preferably a professor of logic, should write a treatise explaining how to determine if a twoofer is joking.

Poe's Law states that this is impossible.

Dave

[1337m4n]

A lot of 'Miracles' have happened in/with Israel, so why am I surprised?

Poe's Law; it hurts my brain.

[bje]

I think there is an "Israeli Comment" Radar thingy. The minute someone somewhere mentions something gone wrong in the world, hundreds of nut jobs around the world hear a buzzer go off in their minds, telling them it is time to go spread some more hatred and blame it on "DA JOOS".

TAM:)

An Israeli dies in the Columbia explosion but no Truther is claiming it was an Arab conspiracy???

Imagine how it would be if an Arab were aboard instead.

How selective.

[Safe-Keeper]

An Israeli dies in the Columbia explosion but no Truther is claiming it was an Arab conspiracy???What about the Jewish astronauts who got calls from an anonymous source not to get on a space shuttle on the day... {fadeout}

[Zipster]

Clearly Columbia never existed because the impact crater doesn't match! The shuttle was switched in space!! Government cover-up!

:rolleyes:

[The Doc]

The lack of presence from conspiracists in this thread has definitely been noted, and speaks volumes about their inability to explain this.

[AJM8125]

The lack of presence from conspiracists in this thread has definitely been noted, and speaks volumes about their inability to explain this.

Since they can't even get a Boeing right, a space shuttle would really bust their humps. Hence the silence.

[ULTIMA1]

Whats funny about 9/11 is the hijackers supposidly spent all that time to plan everything out so perfectly but yet left luggage with all kinds of paperwork, IDs, plans, and manuals

Also all kinds of paperwork, IDs and manuals in their cars.

All of this evidence just left behind to be found.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Whats funny about 9/11 is the hijackers supposidly spent all that time to plan everything out so perfectly but yet left luggage with all kinds of paperwork, IDs, plans, and manuals

Also all kinds of paperwork, IDs and manuals in their cars.

All of this evidence just left behind to be found.


That only matters if they wanted to hide their involvement after-the-fact.

What do you think the FBI could have done to stop the hijackers after they were already dead?

[bje]

Whats funny about 9/11 is the hijackers supposidly spent all that time to plan everything out so perfectly but yet left luggage with all kinds of paperwork, IDs, plans, and manuals

Also all kinds of paperwork, IDs and manuals in their cars.

All of this evidence just left behind to be found.

It's only "funny" to truthers who have think they have the ability to reject all alternatives other than their own.

[Thunder]

And it was found just outside the town of Palestine TX?

Coincidence? I think not!

id love to see your evidence that it was planted. i dont expect you to ever provide any...truther.

[Thunder]

Diary from Israeli astronaut? Does that mean "da Joos" did it?

not only was it part of a Joo's diary..but it was the page with a Jooish prayer on it!!!

coincidence?...I think not!!

I think this video explains it all:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdjEPqWjTeU&feature=related

[Quad4_72]

Whats funny about 9/11 is the hijackers supposidly spent all that time to plan everything out so perfectly but yet left luggage with all kinds of paperwork, IDs, plans, and manuals

Also all kinds of paperwork, IDs and manuals in their cars.

All of this evidence just left behind to be found.

Well with Osama admitting on camera that Al Qaeda was responsible for the attacks, I don't think the hijackers were too concerned about covering their trails. Not to mention the fact that they would no longer exist after the attacks.

[Thunder]

its not like muslim terrorists ever try to hide their responcibility.

[Lensman]

Someone, preferably a professor of illogic, should write a treatise explaining how to determine if a twoofer is joking.

Fixed it for ya. ;) :D

[Alt+F4]

Whats funny about 9/11 is the hijackers supposidly spent all that time to plan everything out so perfectly but yet left luggage with all kinds of paperwork, IDs, plans, and manuals

Also all kinds of paperwork, IDs and manuals in their cars.

All of this evidence just left behind to be found.

They were happy and proud about what they were going to do, so why cover it up after-the-fact? They wanted to be celebrated at heros.

[T.A.M.]

exactly. You'd swear, the way Ultima and other truthers talk, that no one had ever left behind evidence, or a will, or a testimony, or anything of the like before. Imagine, 19 young men dying for their God, About to be Martyrs in the largest terrorist attack in history...very suspicious to leave a calling card? It would be MORE SUSPICIOUS if they did not leave evidence behind.

TAM:)

[MikeW]

It would be MORE SUSPICIOUS if they did not leave evidence behind.
If there were no evidence from the planes truthers would be saying, "look, there are cards and wallets and mail and wedding rings and all kinds of personal effects at the crash scenes from the passengers, yet nothing whatsoever from any of the hijackers, not a single sign that they were ever on board". Evidence = inside job, no evidence = inside job - it's a win-win situation.

And it would be much the same with regard to anything left behind. We would hear even more claims that they never existed. Of course the reality is that the FBI would have worked out who was who even if Atta hadn't left any luggage behind - that did nothing other than save them a little time.

[PhantomWolf]

It has to be noted that while a number of things were left in the car (Flight Manuals etc) this would have been the logical thing to do since they wouldn't have wanted them with them and leaving them in the hotel room may have alerted people prior to the hijacking. In the boot of a car they were pretty safe. Atta's luggage however was not in the plan for the hijackers, it was left behind because the plane from Boston was late and the luggage never made the connecting flight. And heck, it's not like this would be the first time an airline has lost someone's luggage...

[T.A.M.]

Whether it was accidentally left behind, or purposely, it does not matter to me, as I can find a plausible reason in each case. However, I am not of the paranoid mindset (unlike most truthers).

TAM:)

[alexi_drago]

Of course it was an inside job, there's no way that damaged fireproofing would've contributed to the failure and the piece of foam was just a hologram anyway, there must've been thermite placed inside it during construction. The diary is proof of all that.

[jaydeehess]

So now the USG is trying to pass off a controlled demolition as "damage from foam".

A chunk of foam damages the ceramic plates on Columbia thus allowing the heat of re-entry to burn through and a diary makes it to Earth despite the violence of the resulting high altitude break up,
and
a passport makes it through the violence of a plane crash and the collapse of a building so you then equate the two docuement's survival with the cause of the violence they came through.

ummm, is this another "truther" joke?:confused:

[Clippy]

Were there other passports recovered on the streets that day, or just this one hijacker's?

[MikeW]

Were there other passports recovered on the streets that day, or just this one hijacker's?
Was it normal for US citizens to take passports on internal flights? I don't know. But there were plenty of other personal effects (http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Personal_Effects_and_the_Crash-Proof_Passport) recovered from all the crash sites.

[Clippy]

Was it normal for US citizens to take passports on internal flights? I don't know. But there were plenty of other personal effects (http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Personal_Effects_and_the_Crash-Proof_Passport) recovered from all the crash sites.

Good question, I'm not that familiar with air travel procedures in the US. If it's like traveling between the Schengen countries, I would guess no.

[jaydeehess]

Until after 9/11, a Canadian travelling in the USA would not be likely to have his/her passport either.

One of the reasons that domestic flights were taken rather than an international flight travelling into or out of the USA would have been that there were no immigration checks and thus less chance of a problem in boarding.

[alexi_drago]

Do astonauts need to take their passport with them?

[HyJinX]

Do astonauts need to take their passport with them?

Yes...but only their intergalactic passport.

http://theswca.com/images-castc/passport-stamped.gif

[Tin Foil Timothy]

Do astonauts need to take their passport with them?

Depends where they land I guess. There's a shuttle landing site at Moron in Spain. Although in seriousness obviously no one is going to worry about a passport :)

[atecom]

it was clearly shot down, after all it left a debris trail over several hundred miles, It was shot down because the crew discovered the satellites that are emmiting Mind control rays, and the rays that destroyed the WTC.

[Zipster]

it was clearly shot down, after all it left a debris trail over several hundred miles, It was shot down because the crew discovered the satellites that are emmiting Mind control rays, and the rays that destroyed the WTC.

No, no, you're wrong. The shuttle was a hologram. The real space shuttle is docked on the secret military base on the moon that we've never landed on.

:eek:

[AJM8125]

No, no, you're wrong. The shuttle was a hologram. The real space shuttle is docked on the secret military base on the moon that we've never landed on.

:eek:

Exactly, and also the wreckage recovered does not include anything that looks like it was once part of an orbiter. Shouldn't there be a large piece of the cockpit, tail assembly or wings? Nope. Nothing of the sort.

Inside job.:cool:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2683248ec2549af479.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14032)

[Zipster]

Exactly, and also the wreckage recovered does not include anything that looks like it was once part of an orbiter. Shouldn't there be a large piece of the cockpit, tail assembly or wings? Nope. Nothing of the sort.

Inside job.:cool:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2683248ec2549af479.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14032)

And don't forget the serials numbers! Since we don't have all the serial numbers we obviously can't conclude that it was the space shuttle.

/Sarcasm

That and a "source close to NASA" states that it was made from "indestructible materials" and only a "direct nuclear blast could destroy the diary".

//Sarcasm

[ULTIMA1]

id love to see your evidence that it was planted. i dont expect you to ever provide any...truther.

The simple fact that so much material was left behind is the evidnece. But then i know you do not understand such things.

[atecom]

Why exactly should they worry about leaving things behind? They themselves would die so they wouldnt have been worried about being caught and they would also want America to know that the attack is as a result of its foreign policy, so they would have at least wanted them to find out that the attacks were carried out by a middle eastern group.

[John Blonn]

The simple fact that so much material was left behind is the evidnece. But then i know you do not understand such things.

Let's travel a second to an alternate universe, a universe in which the hijackers destroyed all evidence of their activities before they boarded the flights...

In this alternate universe, ULTIMA1 posts on the JREF forum:

"The simple fact that NO material was left behind is the evidnece. But then i know you do not understand such things."

-----------------------------------------
Back to our universe.

Your worldview is not falsifiable.

DUCY?

[jaydeehess]

The simple fact that so much material was left behind is the evidnece. But then i know you do not understand such things.
Too much evidence,
not enough evidence
Just how much evidence would be jussst riiight?

[Zipster]

He's like Goldilocks testing out his "evidence" porridge...

[ULTIMA1]

"The simple fact that NO material was left behind is the evidnece. But then i know you do not understand such things."


So where did you get your police training from to know about evidence?

[ULTIMA1]

Too much evidence,
not enough evidence
Just how much evidence would be jussst riiight?

Well if you had some police training (like i do) you might know.

[JoeyDonuts]

Heeeeere we go again.

[HawksFan]

Ultima, you DO realize (what with all that police training and all) that the only people that the prosecution is required to turn over all their evidence do is the defendant(s) legal team, right? I mean, you know that, correct? They have no obligation to reveal everything to you. Or anything, for that matter.

Unless, of course, KSM et. al. have retained you as their legal council. Are you starting yet another new career as a defense lawyer? Shame OJ didn't get a hold of you in time. He really could have used your legal prowess in this latest case of his.

[ULTIMA1]

Ultima, you DO realize (what with all that police training and all) that the only people that the prosecution is required to turn over all their evidence do is the defendant(s) legal team, right? .

Unless the information is requested through FOIA requests to the originating agency.

Just like i posted a FOIA to NSA for the Critic about the interception.

[jaydeehess]

Well if you had some police training (like i do) you might know.

Sorry, was there an answer to my question there somewhere?

Will you acknowledge that they had no reason whatsoever to not leave those items behind?

They did not need those articles!
Some of those articles would be suspicious if found on them while boarding!
They desired that the world know who did the deed and why!

In your experience as a police officer is it common for a suicide victim to attempt to hide the fact that it was suicide (other than with a desire to be buried with a Roman Catholic cerimony)?

[John Blonn]

So where did you get your police training from to know about evidence?

TY for completely missing the point of my post.

And the last thing you want to do is get into a battle over qualifications, trust me on this one.

[jaydeehess]

Unless the information is requested through FOIA requests to the originating agency.


Not exactly. For any investigation that is on going there is no obligation for an investigating agency to turn over any docuements except to the attorney of an accused. In this case it could be argued that the investigation is still open.

Quite obviously if an investigation is continuing a news agency, or for that matter any Joe Blow Ultima, can make all the FOIA requests they want and they will receive nothing.

Just like i posted a FOIA to NSA for the Critic about the interception.
How's that going for you?

[jaydeehess]

Well if you had some police training (like i do) you might know.

That would be your training in listening to phone calls placed to locations within the USA from overseas, especially from S.Arabia, Afghanistan and Iraq?

Heard many amourous calls from US servicemen to their wives lately?

Oops, my bad. That is the extent of your training for your position at the NSA.
"NSA analyst" is stretching that a tad isn't it?:deeek::dewink:

[GreyICE]

The hijackers had money and papers needed to operate safely in the US.

Real World Explanation: They were obviously well trained, well equipped, well prepared terrorists.
Troofers: All faked

They left any they didn't need behind in a location where it was unlikely to be found before the event to avoid suspicion.

Real World: They were obviously well, trained, well equipped, well prepared.
Troofers: Obviously planted. Because why not? Another point of failure on this convoluted plan is just par for the course. And obviously they were so good no one saw them or recorded them on video tape, but our special troofer skills uncovered the truth because they were too stupid to get around the force of random bloggers!

Some of the documentation they did need to board survived the explosion, along with other personal effects of other passangers.

Real World: Objects often survive plane crashes.
Troofers: ALL PLANTED! ALL OF IT! THEY ARE EVERYWHERE! EVEN IN THE SPACE SHUTTLE. THIS WAS PLANNED BY SPACE JEWS!