Pope Benedict: Modern Culture Is Destroying Faith

[ravdin]

Some positive news from the Vatican.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20081005/ts_afp/vaticanpopesynod

[SimonD]

He makes it sound like a bad thing

[devnull]

Good.

[ImaginalDisc]

Another 41 experts including six women and 37 observers are to take part in the gathering in which three former Italian presidents and Oscar-winning actor Roberto Benigni have also agreed to read from the Bible.

Please tell me Begnini's going to read the saucy bits from the Book of Ruth. That's what I'd do if the potato invited me to some synod.

[jimtron]

"There are those that, having decided that 'God is dead,' declare themselves 'god,' believing themselves to be the only creator of their own fate, the absolute owner of the world," the German-born pope said.
OK, other than me, who in the world believes this? How can an atheist call him/herself god? It's nonsensical. But seriously, I do own the world.

"Is it not more likely -- as demonstrated by news headlines every day -- that the arbitrary rule of power, selfish interests, injustice and exploitation, and violence in all its forms, will extend their grip?"

Let's see--news headlines. Has anyone who believes in god done anything horrible and violent in recent memory? No, I guess not.

[slingblade]

But seriously, I do own the world.


And then you just had to take out a sub-prime mortgage on it. But it will be okay: in lieu of reposession, you get an oyster.

[Mashuna]

Pope Benedict: Modern Culture Is Destroying Faith

But remember, Modern Culture has its bad points too.

[Lord Emsworth]

"There are those that, having decided that 'God is dead,' declare themselves 'god,' believing themselves to be the only creator of their own fate, the absolute owner of the world," the German-born pope said.

Oh my, I should have that kind of chutzpe. If, absent actual self-declarations as 'god', people still declare themselves 'god' then just what is he doing?

[quarky]

The pope is infallible.
That should be enough.

[Dragoonster]

He makes it sound like a bad thing

Just what I was thinking.

John Paul II seemed pretty progressive late in his...papacy? Term? Maybe Benedict is more conservative, haven't really paid any attention to him.

OK, other than me, who in the world believes this? How can an atheist call him/herself god? It's nonsensical. But seriously, I do own the world.

I don't know his reasonsing but I have a lot of solipsistic tendencies. Perhaps to the point, I do think each person should create their own unique morality (or arive at it objectively and independent of any single philosophy or religion or dogma). Or they could just be amoral, which isn't bad either at least for the individual. Maybe that's what he was getting at?

[millwallfan]

The pope is infallible.
That should be enough.

the pope used to be a nazi

[Correa Neto]

Go modern culture, go!

OK, now a question-
"Modern culture" (whatever it really is) is actually destroying faith or (some) religion(s)?

[Achán hiNidráne]

OK, other than me, who in the world believes this? How can an atheist call him/herself god? It's nonsensical. But seriously, I do own the world.

I think what Herr Ratzenbeger is saying is that if you rely on something other than the Invisible Sky Fascist to make decisions in life, you are "declaring yourself god."


Remember, religion is all about dependence on their particular god, or rather dependence on the Church that claims to be speak for it.

[drkitten]

First they came for the soothsayers, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a soothsayer
Then they came for the alchemists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't an alchemist
Then they came for the televangelists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a televangelist
Then they came for the Doctors of the Church and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Doctor of the Church
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to help me celebrate.

[quixotecoyote]

Bit of poor taste given what "they came for" implies in the context that reference came from, no?

[drkitten]

Bit of poor taste given what "they came for" implies in the context that reference came from, no?

Given that the current pope and the one complaining is an ex-Nazi -- I don't think so, not at all.

[fuelair]

Dibs on the big throne thing!!!

[quixotecoyote]

Given that the current pope and the one complaining is an ex-Nazi -- I don't think so, not at all.

As I understand it, virtually every German male of his age apart from jews and other declared enemies would have the same associations. Ex-Nazi seems misleading.

http://bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/new_pope_defied_nazis.htm

[ImaginalDisc]

As I understand it, virtually every German male of his age apart from jews and other declared enemies would have the same associations. Ex-Nazi seems misleading.

http://bc.edu/research/cjl/meta-elements/texts/cjrelations/topics/new_pope_defied_nazis.htm

It's more telling that we wasn't a White Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose), but given his age at the time, and the pass we've given HJ in general, it's not that big a deal.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Quoting Mr Pope from the url on the OP:

""If we look at history we are forced to notice the frequent coldness and rebellion of incoherent Christians. Because of this, God, while never shirking in his promise of salvation, often had to turn towards punishment," he said."

Well thank the IPU that I, like the majority of the people on this planet, am not a Christian then since God seems very confused on how to deal with the rest of us and thus tends to leave us alone.

Idiot! Christians never have a World view and never seem to realize that thousands of societies have existed and thrived for hundreds, if not thousands of years, without benefit of the Christian God and his whiny Son? :boggled:

[Beerina]

Punishment suggests a future time in which the punished will be free to live their improved, post-punishment lives. Or that others, seeing the punishment, will live cleaner lives, post-punishment-of-others as well.

But according to Christian theory, the only options after death are resurrection into Heaven and resurrection into Hell. In neither situation will the person be able to live with the advantage of anyone's punishment's result.

Hence afterlife punishment is irrelevant, except as a threat to get you to behave before you die. But without proof (and apparently, deliberately so) it's an empty threat.

It also flies in the face of the religious notion you should do good things because that's the right thing to do rather than because you're afraid of punishment, or want cotton candy as a reward while walking the streets of gold with Jesus.

[jimtron]

I think what Herr Ratzenbeger is saying is that if you rely on something other than the Invisible Sky Fascist to make decisions in life, you are "declaring yourself god."
Which is a specious argument.

[KingMerv00]

Dibs on the big throne thing!!!

Damn...I call the hat!

[Polaris]

OK, other than me, who in the world believes this? How can an atheist call him/herself god?

I do. I'm an atheist, and I know I'm God. And I'll prove it:

As soon as I hit the "post" icon, everybody who I decide should live will continue living, and all those I have decided should die will die.

[SimonD]

Just what I was thinking.

John Paul II seemed pretty progressive late in his...papacy? Term? Maybe Benedict is more conservative, haven't really paid any attention to him.

Yes, a lot of the council wanted to bring in a more conservative person after JP2. He was considered a little to left of centre. Though I think he lost it a bit towards the end. Making Austrian princes Saints was a bit dodgy (though making anyone a saint is a bit dodgy :))

I don't know his reasonsing but I have a lot of solipsistic tendencies. Perhaps to the point, I do think each person should create their own unique morality (or arive at it objectively and independent of any single philosophy or religion or dogma). Or they could just be amoral, which isn't bad either at least for the individual. Maybe that's what he was getting at?

Just treat people the way you want to be treated. However if they disrespect you, punch them on the nose:)

[Piscivore]

And then you just had to take out a sub-prime mortgage on it. But it will be okay: in lieu of reposession, you get an oyster.

You make that sound like a bad thing.

[SimonD]

the pope used to be a nazi

To be fair, he wasn't a Nazi, he was in the Hitler youth, which in his day, you were in or you were dead

[KingMerv00]

To be fair, he wasn't a Nazi, he was in the Hitler youth, which in his day, you were in or you were dead

I'm surprised how often the "Nazi Pope" claim comes up in these forums. According to his wiki article:


Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler_Youth)—as membership was required for all 14-year old German boys after December 1939[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#cite_note-6)—but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#cite_note-7) His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism), believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith, according to biographer John L. Allen, Jr. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Allen,_Jr.) In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome), was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics).[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#cite_note-8) In 1943 while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffenhelfer). Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigours of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household. As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the War in summer 1945. He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.

He doesn't seem all that monstrous. If it is accurate of course.

[Achán hiNidráne]

Which is a specious argument.

You know that, and I know that, but the cranky, old, authoritarian kraut (and before anyone complains about that term, look at MY surname) in Rome and his millions of doting followers consider it high philosophy.

[qayak]

Ex-Nazi seems misleading.

I agree! Current Nazi is more like it.

[Lord Emsworth]

I'm surprised how often the "Nazi Pope" claim comes up in these forums. According to his wiki article:



He doesn't seem all that monstrous. If it is accurate of course.

I think the Wiki article is hands down more accurate than the "Nazi Pope" claims.

[Silentknight]

It also flies in the face of the religious notion you should do good things because that's the right thing to do rather than because you're afraid of punishment, or want cotton candy as a reward while walking the streets of gold with Jesus.

Well sure. Everyone knows that the only thing keeping atheists from acting immorally is the threat of severe punishment, like prison, as opposed to Christians who always do good things because they're the right thing to do.

[paximperium]

I think the Wiki article is hands down more accurate than the "Nazi Pope" claims.

I agree. Smearing the Pope for things he was not responsible for is not really a good argument; he has many other "sins" to account for.

[cannotthinkofaname]

Well at least they let the Jewish faith send a reprsentative

[Beerina]

Pope Benedict: Modern Culture Is Destroying Faith

And?








By the way, even if God exists, so what? Would anyone be happy we live in a reality where you will be punished for not believing in God without proof?

WTF!

[jimtron]

And?








By the way, even if God exists, so what? Would anyone be happy we live in a reality where you will be punished for not believing in God without proof?

WTF!

Even if you do believe in god, what if it's the wrong one? Which interpretation of which scripture of which religion is correct?

[billydkid]

Modern culture has been "destroying faith" since before I was born. Sadly, it has made little headway.

[tumnus]

It's more telling that we wasn't a White Rose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose), but given his age at the time, and the pass we've given HJ in general, it's not that big a deal.

Thanks for that White Rose link. I am completely blown away, moved and humbled by such 'cohones'

it's actions and feelings from sentient creatures like that, that makes the long, painful struggle of our ancestors over billions of years from the very first cells worthwhile.

[Rasmus]

I do. I'm an atheist, and I know I'm God. And I'll prove it:

As soon as I hit the "post" icon, everybody who I decide should live will continue living, and all those I have decided should die will die.

*looks around*

You bastard! :duck:

[Nancarrow]

I wish the Pope was right. Perhaps in a restricted, Western-centric sense, he is.

Still, yay for modern culture!

[quarky]

We aren't the pope, but the pope is the pope.
Don't let the hat and throne confuse you.
Jesus is the only one popier than the pope.



(Is "popier" a word?)

[Piscivore]

We aren't the pope, but the pope is the pope.
Don't let the hat and throne confuse you.
Jesus is the only one popier than the pope.



(Is "popier" a word?)

I'm a pope, but then again, so are you. Hail Eris.


Does anyone else think it is funny that a Catholic pope is more or less echoing Savonarola's complaint?

[quixotecoyote]

Well, ol' Savonarola was a bit of a mini-pope himself.