9-year-old arrested for waving toy gun

[Tony]

http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1699&dept_id=46371&newsid=10419957&PAG=461&rfi=9 ...full article


LORAIN -- A 9-year-old boy was arrested at gunpoint and handcuffed Saturday because he was waving a toy gun over his head while seated on a bench outside a store, according to a Lorain police report.

His mother, Tamyka Saunders of Sheffield Lake, said her son, Thomas Clark Jr., told Lorain police when they approached him outside a Broadway business that the gun was a toy. An officer aimed his weapon at the boy's head, ordered him to the ground, handcuffed him and arrested him for juvenile delinquency by reason of inducing panic, according to the police report.

Saunders, 28, was also charged with obstruction of justice and resisting arrest when she pleaded with police not to arrest her son and to give him a warning, according to a police report.


This is a case in which I advocate deadly force against the police. The state is WAY overstepping its bounds, you can thank the leftist police state metality for this.

[Tmy]

Toy guns arent illegal are they? Deont they have florecent colors on tehm now too. Does sound like the cops went all pwer crazy on this one.

[richardm]

Lorain police said Novosielski handled the situation properly.

'Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that,'' Lt. Robert Poli said.

''We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around,'' Poli said. ''You don't know it's a toy gun.''


There have been cases in the USA where children have got their hands on real guns, though, haven't there? In a country where people carry guns all over the place, isn't it prudent to treat anything that looks like a real gun as though it is a real gun?

I'm reminded somewhat of a case in this country where a man was shot with a gun in his hand. It turned out later that the gun was in fact a cigarette lighter, and there was much tutting about the way the police overreacted.

Trouble was, although it was just a lighter, it looked like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38674000/jpg/_38674143_gunb.jpg

What would you think if someone pointed one at you?

[Suddenly]

This is a case in which I advocate deadly force against the police. The state is WAY overstepping its bounds, you can thank the leftist police state metality for this.

Uh huh.


A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head,'' according to a police report. The report said the gun was spray painted black and resembled a genuine gun.

At that point, Officer Joe Novosielski confronted the boy at gunpoint, ordering him to drop the gun and then lie on the ground, the report said.



Lorain police said Novosielski handled the situation properly.

''Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that,'' Lt. Robert Poli said.

''We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around,'' Poli said. ''You don't know it's a toy gun.''

Yup. If a kid is waving a gun around we should just let boys be boys, If it turns out to be real, so what? We can just bury the bodies and send the kid to a gun safety class. What kind of county are we living in when the cops arrest a nine year old buy for waving what could be a real gun around? You're right, this calls for an armed response.

What about the children!!!

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Tmy
Toy guns arent illegal are they? Deont they have florecent colors on tehm now too. Does sound like the cops went all pwer crazy on this one.

That would be a reasonable conclusion unless you read the whole story and found out the gun was spray-painted black and looked like a real gun.

[Tmy]

Didnt the caller say he was waving a "plastic" gun.. Plastic as in fake.

When I was kid we had real looking guns. People didnt freak out like they do today. I had a Transformer robot that changed into a realistic semi-auto pistol!

Ahhh those were the days.

[Richard G]

I know I will sleep better at night knowing all those toy gun smugglers, and the end users are being rounded up.

Dumb, Dumb, Dumb

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by richardm


Trouble was, although it was just a lighter, it looked like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38674000/jpg/_38674143_gunb.jpg

What would you think if someone pointed one at you?

I'd think, "Can I distract him long enough to draw on him and blow him away?"

:D

AS

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tony
...

This is a case in which I advocate deadly force against the police. The state is WAY overstepping its bounds, you can thank the leftist police state metality for this.

So now the ever idiotic 'Tony' wants to kill police officers who arrest people waving around guns during a time of war.

I am sure that police officers would enjoy being able to determine if a gun is a fake or not without having to get an up-close inspection of it, however that is seldom possible during a crisis.

From the article:

"Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that," Lt. Robert Poli said.

"We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around," Poli said. "You don't know it's a toy gun."

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Tmy
Didnt the caller say he was waving a "plastic" gun.. Plastic as in fake.


That was just poor writing by the newspaper. If you look closer at the passage you will see that the gun was described that way by the police, not the caller. It is pretty clear from the whole story that the gun looked real until the police got their hands on it and noticed it wasn't.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Crossbow


So now the ever idiotic 'Tony' wants to kill police officers who arrest people waving around guns during a time of war.
[/I]


The idiot is you, I never said such a thing.

[DavidJames]

"The idiot is you, I never said such a thing."

Then what did you mean by advocating "deadly force against the police"

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by Tmy
Didnt the caller say he was waving a "plastic" gun.. Plastic as in fake.
Christ I hope your aim is better than your reading comprehension skills, I'd hate to get caught in the crossfire when you start excercising your 2nd amendment right to blow stuff away. Try again, more slowly and calmly this time.

"A passer-by who saw the boy playing just before noon with a gun -- described by police as a black plastic toy gun -- called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head"

[Malachi151]

Originally posted by Tony
http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1699&dept_id=46371&newsid=10419957&PAG=461&rfi=9 ...full article

This is a case in which I advocate deadly force against the police. The state is WAY overstepping its bounds, you can thank the leftist police state metality for this.

Give me a break, "leftist"? Where the heck do you get that from?

This is neither a left or right issues, its an issue of plain old stupidity.

I'm also assuming that the boy and mother in question are black, looks more like a case of racial discrimination to me. I'm betting, black kid and mother in a poor section of town, and if it were a white family an a middle class part of town, nothing would have happened.

Authoritarianism is neither left nor right BTW, which is what this is a case of, and it's likely supported by new Bush legislation :rolleyes:

The Patriot Act and Homeland Security bill are not "leftist" pieces of legislation... in case you didn't realize that...

[Suddenly]

Crossbow said: So now the ever idiotic 'Tony' wants to kill police officers who arrest people waving around guns during a time of war.

then....


Originally posted by Tony



The idiot is you, I never said such a thing.



Lets go to the video tape:

Tony said: This is a case in which I advocate deadly force against the police.

The case in question:
... called police, who responded to the scene and found the boy ''waving what appeared to be a black handgun above his head,'' according to a police report.

(clears throat, turns on microphone)

After further review, Tony advocated deadly force, in a case where somebody is waiving around a gun. There are American forces under fire in a foreign land, thus we are at war.


The call on the field stands."

First down, Crossbow.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tony



The idiot is you, I never said such a thing.

Oh yes you did say such a thing and I see that you are ignoring your posts again.

I had hoped that you would have learned something the last time you did such a thing, but alas it is not to be.

Well, that is OK by me; here we go again:

Originally posted by Tony

This is a case in which I advocate deadly force against the police. The state is WAY overstepping its bounds, you can thank the leftist police state metality for this.

If someone (including Tony) is currently advocates deadly force against the police then that someone (read Tony) is wanting to kill police officers during a time of war.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Malachi151


Give me a break, "leftist"? Where the heck do you get that from?

This is neither a left or right issues, its an issue of plain old stupidity.

I'm also assuming that the boy and mother in question are black, looks more like a case of racial discrimination to me. I'm betting, black kid and mother in a poor section of town, and if it were a white family an a middle class part of town, nothing would have happened.

Authoritarianism is neither left nor right BTW, which is what this is a case of, and it's likely supported by new Bush legislation :rolleyes:

The Patriot Act and Homeland Security bill are not "leftist" pieces of legislation... in case you didn't realize that...

Just be happy he didn't call it an example of the left wing matriarchical conspiracy.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Crossbow


So now the ever idiotic 'Tony' wants to kill police officers who arrest people waving around guns during a time of war.

I am sure that police officers would enjoy being able to determine if a gun is a fake or not without having to get an up-close inspection of it, however that is seldom possible during a crisis.

From the article:

"Obviously, someone got scared and called the police. Nobody driving down the street could tell it was a toy gun, so that's where the panic comes in. We charge that to anyone doing that," Lt. Robert Poli said.

"We're not going to tolerate anyone walking down the street, sitting on a bench ... if he's waving a gun around," Poli said. "You don't know it's a toy gun."

Hmmmmm..... IIRC, little Opie used to walk around town with his six guns strapped to his side. He even went into the sheriff's office with them drawn.

Too bad Barney didn't draw on him and arrest him. Opie was obviously a terrorist. After all, we were at war with Vietnam.

AS

[Tony]

Originally posted by Crossbow

If someone (including Tony) currently advocates deadly force against the police then one is the killing of police during a time of war.


You just moved the goal posts. You originally said:

So now the ever idiotic 'Tony' wants to kill police officers who arrest people waving around guns during a time of war.

This is the usual dishonesty I can expect from you. Just like that time you altered my post. I stand by my comment; I never said what you claim I said.

[DavidJames]

Tony:

What did you mean by advocating "deadly force against the police"?

[Tony]

Originally posted by DavidJames
Then what did you mean by advocating "deadly force against the police"

When a cop arrests a child for having a toy, even after the cop has realized it, in fact, was a toy, something is seriously wrong. Id say its hysteria, paranoia and fear (ive seen these traits in many of the gunophobes on this website) almost paralleled to the Salem Witch Trails. Are people willing to accept such tyranny? AGAINST A CHILD? The child and the mother had no recourse for the violation of their rights. What is a person supposed to do when a cop becomes the criminal? In such cases I think it should be legal to use deadly force against the police.

[Cinorjer]

The police went overboard when they arrested a 9 year old boy for playing with a toy gun. When they responded and found out it was a toy, they should have exercised a little judgement and confiscated the toy and gave the boy a lecture about why he shouldn't play with toy guns that look like the real thing.

"In time of war"?? What in the world does that mean? That we should be so paranoid about terrorists that a 9 year old boy should be dragged off to jail because he scared someone? Our courts aren't clogged enough that a judge has to waste time and resources dealing with this?

[Tmy]

Maybe the kid is part of AlQueda!!!!

I understand the darwing guns on the kid. but did they have to a arrest him and mom??? Little much dont ya think. I figure being handcuffed at gunpoint would be enough of a punshiment.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tony

You just moved the goal posts. You originally said:



I did not move any goal posts, I was quoting you.

Originally posted by Tony

This is the usual dishonesty I can expect from you. Just like that time you altered my post. I stand by my comment; I never said what you claim I said.

I do not know what you are talking about here because I can only change my posts. I am not a Forum Administrator, therefore it is impossible for me to change any other posts except for my own.

I did suggest that you correct the typographical errors in the one post where you berated 'Ion', but I never changed any of your, nor anyone else's, postings.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Crossbow


I did not move any goal posts, I was quoting you.


Yeah, sure, whatever you say. :rolleyes:

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist


Hmmmmm..... IIRC, little Opie used to walk around town with his six guns strapped to his side. He even went into the sheriff's office with them drawn.

Too bad Barney didn't draw on him and arrest him. Opie was obviously a terrorist. After all, we were at war with Vietnam.

AS

I think Barney may have had some prior knowledge about Opie's guns. Just a hunch.

I have no idea what the war has to do with this though.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Suddenly


I think Barney may have had some prior knowledge about Opie's guns. Just a hunch.


You never know. I never trusted Floyd the barber. He could have called and reported Opie. I'm afraid Barney would have been obligated to respond at that point.

If Aunt Bea had tried to talk sense into him, Barney then could have busted her for resisting arrest. I'll bet Thelma Lou wouldn't have spoken to Barney for a week if that happened.

At least poor Otis would have had some company for a change.

AS

[Kodiak]

IMO, the cop had every right to draw his weapon and demand that the boy drop what he was holding if he believed that the gun was real. Then, after investigating and discovering that the gun was a toy and that the boy was simply playing, the cop should've given the toy gun to the child's mother and sent them on their way.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
The police went overboard when they arrested a 9 year old boy for playing with a toy gun. When they responded and found out it was a toy, they should have exercised a little judgement and confiscated the toy and gave the boy a lecture about why he shouldn't play with toy guns that look like the real thing.

And then a week later when the kid gets a real gun or something and shoots a classmate that cop gets in trouble for not "doing something about a clear trouble sign."

Welcome to the post-Columbine culture of fear zero tolerance world. Act normal or we shoot you. And if the cop doesn't shoot you any later crimes you commit are his fault. Or your parents. Or somebody.

I'm not saying it is a good thing to arrest a kid, but I can imagine why they wanted him "in the system." CYA, bigtime.

[EdipisReks]

i think that the chargers given against the child and the mother are very excessive. pleading with the police is obstruction of justice?

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist


You never know. I never trusted Floyd the barber. He could have called and reported Opie. I'm afraid Barney would have been obligated to respond at that point.

If Aunt Bea had tried to talk sense into him, Barney then could have busted her for resisting arrest. I'll bet Thelma Lou wouldn't have spoken to Barney for a week if that happened.

At least poor Otis would have had some company for a change.

AS

Actually, this is starting to sound reasonable.

Wait a minute!!!

Where was Don Knotts when this thing went down?

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Kodiak
IMO, the cop had every right to draw his weapon and demand that the boy drop what he was holding if he believed that the gun was real. Then, after investigating and discovering that the gun was a toy and that the boy was simply playing, the cop should've given the toy gun to the child's mother and sent them on their way.
I agree, except for the "give the gun to the mother" part. The child's mother probably gave him the somewhat realistic-looking gun to begin with. They should have confiscated the toy gun and given the mother a warning about buying realistic-looking guns for a child.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
The police went overboard when they arrested a 9 year old boy for playing with a toy gun. When they responded and found out it was a toy, they should have exercised a little judgement and confiscated the toy and gave the boy a lecture about why he shouldn't play with toy guns that look like the real thing.

"In time of war"?? What in the world does that mean? That we should be so paranoid about terrorists that a 9 year old boy should be dragged off to jail because he scared someone? Our courts aren't clogged enough that a judge has to waste time and resources dealing with this?

Perhaps the officer did go overboard, but then again all that we know about the case is what has been written in this one news account. In my experience, I have found that only about half the details of any newspaper story actually make it into to the record so I expect that there is a good deal more going on than may appear.

For example, the article says that the boy has attention deficit disorder. Have you ever dealt with one of these children? I have and I can tell you that when they get wound up they can be quite violent.

As far as that comment goes about time of war, yes we really are in a time of war right now and police officers have been repeatedly told to be on the look out for suspicious activity, strange goings on, do not overlook small details because they can lead to much bigger things, and so on.

Again, I have personally known several police officers and I went through some basic police training myself and found out that routine patrols can be about the most dangerous duty there is. Case in point, there is footage that probably just about every patrol officer has seen where other officers have been shot, beat up, run over, and killed during so called 'routine patrol duty'. Therefore, no one wants to be the next officer on video-tape that everyone will be watching hoping to learn from his mistakes.

It is quite easy to look at things from a distance and make a judgment, but when one is in the midst of the situation, they one does not have this luxury and often important decisions have to be made very quickly.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Tricky

I agree, except for the "give the gun to the mother" part. The child's mother probably gave him the somewhat realistic-looking gun to begin with. They should have confiscated the toy gun and given the mother a warning about buying realistic-looking guns for a child.

I assumed that the toy had the orange or red muzzle insert as required by law. If it was modified to look more realistic then I would not have returned the toy.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky

They should have confiscated the toy gun and given the mother a warning about buying realistic-looking guns for a child.

Why?

I am always amazed that a self described "liberal" would be such a fascist.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Kodiak


I assumed that the toy had the orange or red muzzle insert as required by law. If it was modified to look more realistic then I would not have returned the toy.

It was modified.

The article describes how the toy gun was painted black.

[Suddenly]

Originally posted by Tricky

I agree, except for the "give the gun to the mother" part. The child's mother probably gave him the somewhat realistic-looking gun to begin with. They should have confiscated the toy gun and given the mother a warning about buying realistic-looking guns for a child.

I think this is right, the only thing I'm wondering about is the timing and the magnitude of the mother's actions. She wasn't around at first, and we don't know when she showed up and how she acted when she did. It could be the police were going to take the kid into custody because there was no parent or guardian for this 9 year old kid, and then the mother comes fling out of nowhere and starts screaming at the police in a forceful and incoherent manner never letting them explain why and what just happened to the point where it becomes obstruction so they just arrest her, and take the kid along. One of those deals where a mother completely loses it over what they are doing to "her boy" and nothing is going to bring her back to reason. I saw this sort of thing all the time in court, where my client's mom just goes into a raging fury at a magistrate or judge because her 18 year old boy is looking at 6 months for a second DUI. Crazy stuff, almost unbelieveable. I'd imagine it would be worse if the kid was 9, but I'm not sure how.



Or maybe the cop is just a jerk. Also possible.

[richardm]

Originally posted by EdipisReks
i think that the chargers given against the child and the mother are very excessive. pleading with the police is obstruction of justice?

Depends on the form that pleading took, doesn't it? The article doesn't go into specifics.

edited to add... as Suddenly pointed out in detail above.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tony


Yeah, sure, whatever you say. :rolleyes:

Well, Tony you dodged the issue, but at least you stopped accusing me of changing your posts.

I suppose that some progress is better than none at all.

Whew! That is a relief because I figured that before too long you would be accusing me of kidnapping the Lindberg baby.

[Leroy]

Originally posted by Tony
http://www.morningjournal.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1699&dept_id=46371&newsid=10419957&PAG=461&rfi=9 ...full article



What a crock of sh*t! I'd like to see a follow-up on this story. I would hope that this cop becomes famous all over the country, and I mean that in a bad way.
:eek:

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Crossbow
Whew! That is a relief because I figured that before too long you would be accusing me of kidnapping the Lindberg baby.


Are you now claiming you didn't?!?!?! :eek:




;)

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Crossbow
Whew! That is a relief because I figured that before too long you would be accusing me of kidnapping the Lindberg baby.
Originally posted by Kodiak
Are you now claiming you didn't?!?!?! :eek:

Yeah! And don't try using that old "I wasn't alive yet" dodge. We've all heard that one before.

[Crossbow]

Oh man! I am so busted!

:rs:

Excuse me while I go call OJ's legal team.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by richardm
Trouble was, although it was just a lighter, it looked like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38674000/jpg/_38674143_gunb.jpg

What would you think if someone pointed one at you?

LOL! If someone pointed that thing at me I'd laugh my ass off. I'm not sure what's funnier, the fact that it absolutely looks fake as hell, or that it has "SEMI-AUTOMATIC" stamped across the left side of the 'slide'... the picture totally cracks me up.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Wolverine


LOL! If someone pointed that thing at me I'd laugh my ass off. I'm not sure what's funnier, the fact that it absolutely looks fake as hell, or that it has "SEMI-AUTOMATIC" stamped across the left side of the 'slide'... the picture totally cracks me up.
Ah yes, but everyone is not as adept at gun recognition as you. I don't have a clue as to why having "semi-automatic" stamped across the side should prove it to be a fake.

Besides, if I didn't have a good look at it in the heat of... whatever it was in the heat of... I would tend to err on the side of caution.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky

Besides, if I didn't have a good look at it in the heat of... whatever it was in the heat of... I would tend to err on the side of caution.


All you have to do is look down the barrel and see that it isn't hollow. Would you be rational enought to do this? Its hard to say, I get weird feelings when my friends accidently point a gun I know is unloaded in my direction.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tony
All you have to do is look down the barrel and see that it isn't hollow. Would you be rational enought to do this?
Of course that would assume that I got a good look at it muzzle-on. Even so, I would not be willing to risk my life over such a quick identification. Hell, for all I know, some guns may have retractable sliding plates over the muzzle to keep dirt out. As I say, I am not particularly knowledgeable about guns.

Originally posted by Tony
Its hard to say, I get weird feelings when my friends accidently point a gun I know is unloaded in my direction.
This is probably due to the significant number of people who have been killed with "unloaded" guns. As I understand, a number of people have made the fatal mistake of assuming the gun was unloaded because the clip was removed, forgetting about the chamber.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky

As I say, I am not particularly knowledgeable about guns.


Ignorance breeds fear.

This is probably due to the significant number of people who have been killed with "unloaded" guns.

Um no, its due to the fact that I am unconfortable when a gun is pointed at me. Even when I know for a fact the gun is unloaded.

As I understand, a number of people have made the fatal mistake of assuming the gun was unloaded because the clip was removed, forgetting about the chamber.

Dont assume I am as ignorant as those people. I have handled guns enought to know how they work and when to tell if they are loaded or unloaded.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tricky

Ah yes, but everyone is not as adept at gun recognition as you. I don't have a clue as to why having "semi-automatic" stamped across the side should prove it to be a fake.

Besides, if I didn't have a good look at it in the heat of... whatever it was in the heat of... I would tend to err on the side of caution.

Understood, certain conditions would make it difficult to identify, I'm sure. I just found the picture very funny. Firearms manufacturers do not make it a habit to print the nature of the gun's operation directly upon its surface. This particular thing is an imitation of a Smith & Wesson pistol design:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/products/firearms/images/standard/SW104783.jpg

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
Its hard to say, I get weird feelings when my friends accidently point a gun I know is unloaded in my direction.

Why are you ever in a position where your friends, accidentally or otherwise, point a firearm in your direction?

[bignickel]

Originally posted by Wolverine

LOL! If someone pointed that thing at me I'd laugh my ass off. I'm not sure what's funnier, the fact that it absolutely looks fake as hell, or that it has "SEMI-AUTOMATIC" stamped across the left side of the 'slide'... the picture totally cracks me up.

OH, of course! It's so obvious what the gun says on it's side when it's POINTED AT YOU! Why didn't we all think of that?

4 out of 5 armed criminals agree that the best way to point a gun at someone is to aim it sideways.

:rolleyes:

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by bignickel


OH, of course! It's so obvious what the gun says on it's side when it's POINTED AT YOU! Why didn't we all think of that?

4 out of 5 armed criminals agree that the best way to point a gun at someone is to aim it sideways.

:rolleyes:

As I already stated previously, under certain conditions, it might be difficult to identify. Ed forbid that if it were pointed directly at me, I'd be able to tell that the business end would appear equally fake, as the "barrel" doesn't look any more real than the rest of it.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Wolverine

Understood, certain conditions would make it difficult to identify, I'm sure. I just found the picture very funny. Firearms manufacturers do not make it a habit to print the nature of the gun's operation directly upon its surface. This particular thing is an imitation of a Smith & Wesson pistol design:

Thanks for the image, Wolvie. Now to illustrate my point, I'm going to shrink these pictures. Tell me how confident you would be to tell the difference between these if you saw them at this range. Would you bet your life on it? (And I mean the plural "you", not just that overgrown ferret Wolverine.)

[Bentspoon]

This quote by Cinorjer:

The police went overboard when they arrested a 9 year old boy for playing with a toy gun. When they responded and found out it was a toy, they should have exercised a little judgement and confiscated the toy and gave the boy a lecture about why he shouldn't play with toy guns that look like the real thing.

"In time of war"?? What in the world does that mean? That we should be so paranoid about terrorists that a 9 year old boy should be dragged off to jail because he scared someone? Our courts aren't clogged enough that a judge has to waste time and resources dealing with this?"

How dare you enter into a gun control forum and spout something logical. Don't you know this is where emotional wars are fought and cowboy heroes expound on the virtues of the cowboy way.

Personnaly I would applaud a drive by shooting of the police officers. That would show em. Where is that drive by rapist shooter. Where are the heroes when you need them?

Bentspoon

[Crossbow]

Excuse me but this is a real safety issue I cannot let slide.

If a person wants to check to see if a gun is loaded or not, then do not do so by looking down the barrel because you might loose your head doing that.

The safe way is to point the barrel in a safe direction, then open the action and look from the side and to the rear for a cartridge. While it is rare, cartridges have been know to go off spontaneously when they are warm, the action in the weapon is old, or has been recently jarred, etc.

So by pointing the barrel in a safe direction, if there is a cartridge in the chamber and it does go off, then the chances of the bullet hurting someone (including the person who is doing the check) are greatly reduced. Further, if one is wanting to remove the round from the chamber, then one has to open the action anyway to do so because such a thing cannot not be done from the muzzle (well at least not with some rather specialized equipment anyway).

[Tony]

Originally posted by Wolverine


Why are you ever in a position where your friends, accidentally or otherwise, point a firearm in your direction?


What do you mean, Why?

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tony

What do you mean, Why?
LOL!
Compare and contrast with:
Originally posted by Tony

Dont assume I am as ignorant as those people.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Tony



What do you mean, Why?

Ummm.... Possibly because the very first and most important rule of gun safety is to never, ever point a firearm at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot, harm, or kill?

AS

[Kodiak]

GUN SAFETY

Treat all firearms as if they are loaded all the time.
Always examine a firearm when you pick it up to assure that it is unloaded.
Always keep the muzzle of the gun pointed in a safe direction.
Always keep the safety on until ready to shoot.
Unload guns when not in use and store in a safe manner -- away from children and those not experienced with firearms.
Always open the action of a gun when handing it to another and remember to point the muzzle in a safe direction.
Never climb a tree, or jump a fence or other obstacle without unloading first.
Be sure of your target before firing. Signs and trees are poor targets and this shooting is unsportsmanlike.
Be sure of your back stop. Never shoot rocks or water as these surfaces can ricochet.
Drinking and drugs DO NOT go with shooting.
Know your gun and ammunition. Check the barrel for obstructions and be sure to use the proper ammunition for your gun. your pistol is marked on the slide as to the caliber but it's important to check the actual barrel for caliber.
Don't carry the 1911 pistol with a round in the chamber and the hammer on the 1/2 cock notch, this is unsafe. If the pistol falls on the hammer with it in 1/2 cock notch, the pistol may fire.
To unload your semi auto pistol, it is necessary to remove the magazine first. Check the chamber to be sure it is unloaded, too.
Keep your pistol pointed down range if it fails to fire because a delayed ignition may still occur. Wait 30 seconds before clearing the pistol.
Practice handling your pistol unloaded.
Wear safety glasses and hearing protection during firing.
If you are unfamiliar with Firearms, it is recommended that you seek instruction from a qualified instructor in the safe handling of firearms.

Remember all guns are to be treated as if they are loaded, so NEVER point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tricky
Would you bet your life on it?

Certainly not.

[Tony]

Originally posted by AmateurScientist


Ummm.... Possibly because the very first and most important rule of gun safety is to never, ever point a firearm at anyone or anything you do not intend to shoot, harm, or kill?

AS

I know, but I think Wolverine is misunderstanding. The gun isnt being point at me. Let me try to illustrate.

Imagine that two people are looking at and handling a hotdog, you are at the other side of the room. During the course of time the people are looking at the hotdog, one of the ends happens to point in your general direction for a split second or so.

Thats how it happened.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
What do you mean, Why?

If you have difficulty comprehending this term, I'll alter my question:

How are you ever in a position where your friends, accidentally or otherwise, point a firearm in your direction?

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
I know, but I think Wolverine is misunderstanding. The gun isnt being point at me. Let me try to illustrate.

Imagine that two people are looking at and handling a hotdog, you are at the other side of the room. During the course of time the people are looking at the hotdog, one of the ends happens to point in your general direction for a split second or so.

Thats how it happened.


Whose "hotdog" was it, and where was the "hotdog" being "looked at" ?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Wolverine

Whose "hotdog" was it,


My friend's


and where was the "hotdog" being "looked at" ?

The kitchen.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Tony


I know, but I think Wolverine is misunderstanding. The gun isnt being point at me. Let me try to illustrate.

Imagine that two people are looking at and handling a hotdog, you are at the other side of the room. During the course of time the people are looking at the hotdog, one of the ends happens to point in your general direction for a split second or so.

Thats how it happened.

If you can see down the barrel, the gun in question is most definitely pointing at you...

[Tony]

Originally posted by Kodiak


If you can see down the barrel, the gun in question is most definitely pointing at you...


I agree, but that wasnt the case. Perhaps "pointed" was the wrong word to use.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
The kitchen.

Yours?

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tony


I know, but I think Wolverine is misunderstanding. The gun isnt being point at me. Let me try to illustrate.

Imagine that two people are looking at and handling a hotdog, you are at the other side of the room. During the course of time the people are looking at the hotdog, one of the ends happens to point in your general direction for a split second or so.

Thats how it happened.
As Kodiak pointed out:
Always open the action of a gun when handing it to another and remember to point the muzzle in a safe direction.

Whoever was handling the hotdog at the time the business end pointed at someone else is an irresponsible hotdog owner.

[Beleth]

Originally posted by Suddenly
That would be a reasonable conclusion unless you read the whole story and found out the gun was spray-painted black and looked like a real gun. Some day a real criminal is going to do the opposite - paint a real gun in fluorescent colors - and we'll get to see the wisdom of relying on colors to determine the authenticity of a gun.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky


Whoever was handling the hotdog at the time the business end pointed at someone else is an irresponsible hotdog owner.

Perhaps, I don’t think you're in a position to judge seeing as how you weren’t there, but why do you think I felt uncomfortable? Because I know the rules of gun safety and recognize when the rules are being broken. EVEN WHEN I KNOW THE GUN IS UNLOADED.

[Kodiak]

Anyone besides me ever get their head "swept"?

I don't know why there aren't more accidents than there really are on basic training shooting ranges... :(

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tony
Perhaps I don’t think you're in a position to judge seeing as how you weren’t there, but why do you think I felt uncomfortable?
Which is why I specifically said "whoever was holding the (gun)". I didn't say you were an irresponsible gun owner. I don't know if the person handling the gun was the owner either, so I should have said "irresponsible gun handler".
Originally posted by Tony
Because I know the rules of gun safety and recognize when the rules are being broken. EVEN WHEN I KNOW THE GUN IS UNLOADED.
I'm glad you do. I hope you pointed out to the handler the error they had made.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by Beleth
Some day a real criminal is going to do the opposite - paint a real gun in fluorescent colors - and we'll get to see the wisdom of relying on colors to determine the authenticity of a gun.

Its already occured.

A Detroit cop was shot a few years back for hesitating to shoot a juvenile drug dealer who wrapped red electrical tape around the end of his .45

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Beleth
Some day a real criminal is going to do the opposite - paint a real gun in fluorescent colors - and we'll get to see the wisdom of relying on colors to determine the authenticity of a gun.

LOL. That's hilarious. I wish I had thought of it.

AS

[Richard G]

Fake gun didn't fool this guy: http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29035

That cop is a moron for cuffing a 9 year old.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
Perhaps, I don’t think you're in a position to judge seeing as how you weren’t there, but why do you think I felt uncomfortable?

None of us needed to be there in order to recognize what you've described. You were in a situation where friends were not practicing safe handling of firearms. You are equally culpable for allowing yourself to be in that position.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Wolverine


Yours?

His.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tricky
I didn't say you were an irresponsible gun owner.

But I will.

I'd call choosing to be around people who either don't know how or don't care enough to practice safe handling of firearms completely irresponsible.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Wolverine


None of us needed to be there in order to recognize what you've described. You were in a situation where friends were not practicing safe handling of firearms. You are equally culpable for allowing yourself to be in that position.


Have you ever been to a gun show?

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
Have you ever been to a gun show?

Sure. Many times.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Suddenly
And then a week later when the kid gets a real gun or something and shoots a classmate that cop gets in trouble for not "doing something about a clear trouble sign."

Welcome to the post-Columbine culture of fear zero tolerance world. Act normal or we shoot you. And if the cop doesn't shoot you any later crimes you commit are his fault. Or your parents. Or somebody.

I'm not saying it is a good thing to arrest a kid, but I can imagine why they wanted him "in the system." CYA, bigtime. [/B]

Why? In case he decides to take that toy gun seriously, and actually 'shoot' someone? Jeez, if that is the case then almost everyone I knew as a child should be arrested so they can be put in the system and every child I know now should be as well because "for crying out loud, they may go Columbine, and we must protect ourselves from criticism.'

Heck, what next? Will Family Services insist any child caught playing with a doll will need to be 'put into the system' as potential teenage pregnancy problem.

The police went overboard, and like so many times when a government entity abuses its power instead of apologizing and saying "We were wrong." they stick to their guns that they were right despite evidence to the contrary.

edited to add: Although I do see your point, and you are probably correct in the police motives.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Wolverine


Sure. Many times.

Well, the situation was no different at my friend's house when we were looking at his guns.

[Jude]

This seems like a pretty huge no-brainer to me, Tony. I consider myself to be pretty pro-gun, but you're liable to get yourself into big trouble waiving a black handgun around in public--toy or not.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Jude
This seems like a pretty huge no-brainer to me, Tony. I consider myself to be pretty pro-gun, but you're liable to get yourself into big trouble waiving a black handgun around in public--toy or not.


A "black hand gun" ceases to be a gun when It's a toy.

[Jude]

Originally posted by Tony



A "black hand gun" ceases to be a gun when It's a toy.

But the police didn't know that, Tony. Are you that willing to gamble with the safety of the community?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Jude


But the police didn't know that, Tony. Are you that willing to gamble with the safety of the community?


The police did know it was a toy and still arrested the kid.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Jude


But the police didn't know that, Tony. Are you that willing to gamble with the safety of the community?

When I was a kid, practically even red-blooded boy had plenty of toy guns--rifles, pistols, six-guns. Many of them looked very realistic, only scaled down for kids. The more realistic the better, from our perspective. We played with them openly in the street, and sometimes carried them to the store or the mall.

No one thought we were threats. We were f*cking kids.

The different today is the culture of fear that has been instilled in us by irresponsible reporting and exaggeration of threats, and the hysteria run rampant among parents and others.

The threat that child posed to anyone was purely imaginary. I don't care how many statistics anyone cites about gun violence in our country, or how many anecdotes we tell about little six-year old Johnny bringing a real gun to show and tell. A little common sense can go a long way in distinguishing between real and imagined threats.

Our country is paralyzed by fear, not guns. Attack and criticize the real issue--the culture of fear and fear mongering by the media.

AS

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Tony



All you have to do is look down the barrel and see that it isn't hollow. Would you be rational enought to do this? Its hard to say, I get weird feelings when my friends accidently point a gun I know is unloaded in my direction.

Not loaded? You use your X-ray vision to see into the chamber?

Always assume that something that looks like a real gun is real and loaded. Thats waht this cop did, thats what this cop should have done. Tony thinks that you should be entitled to shoot this cop. What can I say about Tony? I would like to see him say this to a cop, rather than on a web forum.

Dude, you need to get new friends if the current bunch tend to point guns at you....maybe they are trying to tell you something.

I'll give you a free lesson about guns Tony, there is no such thing as a "gun you know is not loaded" If you are going to pack the things you really should learn the first basic rule of safety...They are always treated as loaded...say that after me tony....They are always treated as loaded, tell your friends or get new friends.

[Wolverine]

Originally posted by Tony
Well, the situation was no different at my friend's house when we were looking at his guns.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, the situations were nearly identical, I'm sure, except for the fact that yours involved someone who didn't bother/didn't know how to handle a firearm properly, and without the supervision or involvement of police officers and federally licensed firearm dealers.

[shuize]

Originally posted by Suddenly


I think this is right, the only thing I'm wondering about is the timing and the magnitude of the mother's actions. She wasn't around at first, and we don't know when she showed up and how she acted when she did. It could be the police were going to take the kid into custody because there was no parent or guardian for this 9 year old kid, and then the mother comes fling out of nowhere and starts screaming at the police in a forceful and incoherent manner never letting them explain why and what just happened to the point where it becomes obstruction so they just arrest her, and take the kid along. One of those deals where a mother completely loses it over what they are doing to "her boy" and nothing is going to bring her back to reason. I saw this sort of thing all the time in court, where my client's mom just goes into a raging fury at a magistrate or judge because her 18 year old boy is looking at 6 months for a second DUI. Crazy stuff, almost unbelieveable. I'd imagine it would be worse if the kid was 9, but I'm not sure how.

Or maybe the cop is just a jerk. Also possible.

These situations are very common. I saw plenty in the juvenile court. They were often a bigger pain in the ass because although the prosecutors were usually willing to send the case "informal" if the kid would take minimal responsibility, the parent usually wanted to fight it out as a prelude to her day in superior court.

However, your second explanation is also fairly common, too.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Tony



The police did know it was a toy and still arrested the kid.

Yes Tony they did. I imagine they wished to speak to the childs parents about why the child was waving a replica handgun around the streets. I believe in your country the police have rules about who they may detain? I think you will find that they must arrest anyone they wish to hold.....If they have to grab someone to prevent him from running off then they must arrest him as soon as they restrain him. Now I know that you think people should be able to legally shoot police but I would ask you to put yourself in the policemans position.... too much to ask?

[George152]

Originally posted by DavidJames
"The idiot is you, I never said such a thing."

Then what did you mean by advocating "deadly force against the police"
Because he's stupid perhaps?

[Tony]

Originally posted by The Fool


Not loaded? You use your X-ray vision to see into the chamber?


I’m the one who checked to see if it was unloaded. I wouldn’t accept the mere word of someone who said it was unloaded, I would have to unload it myself or verify to see if it was unloaded.

What can I say about Tony? I would like to see him say this to a cop, rather than on a web forum.


Why? Do you support the oppression of innocent children? What's your problem, are you willing to see a kid get arrested because of a harmless toy? Are you willing to let fear and kneejerkism rule? You dont think the state is going to far? Maybe you are content to live in a police state, I however, am not.

Dude, you need to get new friends if the current bunch tend to point guns at you....maybe they are trying to tell you something.


Ok dumba$$, you obviously didnt read the posts on the previous pages. You've shown your stupidity in the past with getting race and religion confused, but not reading posts before making a judgement about a situation is a new low.

I'll give you a free lesson about guns Tony, there is no such thing as a "gun you know is not loaded"

Except the ones without a clip and without a bullet in the chamber.

If you are going to pack the things you really should learn the first basic rule of safety...They are always treated as loaded...say that after me tony....They are always treated as loaded, tell your friends or get new friends.

I know what to do, stop being a deuchbag.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Wolverine


:rolleyes:

Yeah, the situations were nearly identical, I'm sure, except for the fact that yours involved someone who didn't bother/didn't know how to handle a firearm properly, and without the supervision or involvement of police officers and federally licensed firearm dealers.

So having cops and licensed dealers present magically makes everything safe. I stand by what I said, you dont know what you're talking about, you werent there.

[Tony]

Originally posted by The Fool

Now I know that you think people should be able to legally shoot police but I

No, I think people should be able to use deadly force against a cop who is overstepping his bounds.

would ask you to put yourself in the policemans position.... too much to ask?

I already have. I see nothing wrong with a kid waving a toy gun, that is no reason to arrest him.

[Tony]

Originally posted by DavidJames
"The idiot is you, I never said such a thing."

Then what did you mean by advocating "deadly force against the police"



Originally posted by George152

Because he's stupid perhaps?


Yes George, you are stupid.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Tony





Except the ones without a clip and without a bullet in the chamber.


You forgot to add "the last time I checked" onto the end of your famous last words.

If I was your Daddy I would make you write this out 1000 times.

"I will not let my friends point guns at me"

And how far over the mark has a cop got to go before you think its ok to cap them?

[Tony]

Originally posted by The Fool

You forgot to add "the last time I checked" onto the end of your famous last words.


Thanks. ;)

If I was your Daddy I would make you write this out 1000 times.

"I will not let my friends point guns at me"

Stop fantasizing.

And how far over the mark has a cop got to go before you think its ok to cap them?

How about putting a gun to your kids head because he had a toy? Cops arent superhumans or paragons of virtue, they are normal people. Why should it be acceptable for them to behave like this?

[George152]

Originally posted by Tony







Yes George, you are stupid.

-I'm- not the entrant for the latest Darwin Awards Tony.
It sounds from your teenage driven arrogance that you will not only be an entrant but you'll win.
And stay away from firearms.

[Tesserat]

I agree with AS that one of the root causes of such incidents is the culture of fear created by the media. (And supported by a public who adore such incidents) The media pushes anything that makes them money, and the geek show at the carnival has always been a big seller.

I'd say that it also has a lot to do with the idea of a gun as a great equalizer. Hey, some big guy pisses you off, it doesn't matter how big he is. Whether he's your boss or a cop who's pointing a gun at a child waving something that looks like a gun, all you need is a moment of righteous indignation, a shot of adrenaline (side order of testosterone), and a gun, and blam, your problem's gone.

[Cinorjer]

As far as that comment goes about time of war, yes we really are in a time of war right now and police officers have been repeatedly told to be on the look out for suspicious activity, strange goings on, do not overlook small details because they can lead to much bigger things, and so on.

That's what I mean. What you've written is a classic description of how a paranoid thinks. There is a world of difference between "Hey, someone parked a truck next to that court building and took off. That doesn't look right" and being afraid every truck on the road contains a bomb. Paranoia is a mental disorder leading to irrational actions. We are told to "look for any suspicious activity" without being trained in what the heck constitutes suspicious, and then again told to "go about our daily lives". That has always been a recipe for disaster. My neighbor looks sort of foreign, and has foreign visitors. He keeps to himself and acts unfriendly. That's suspicious to me. If a UHaul truck ever gets parked in his driveway, I'm going to report him as a possible terrorist. It's a time of war, after all. It's also paranoia.

Again, I have personally known several police officers and I went through some basic police training myself and found out that routine patrols can be about the most dangerous duty there is. Case in point, there is footage that probably just about every patrol officer has seen where other officers have been shot, beat up, run over, and killed during so called 'routine patrol duty'. Therefore, no one wants to be the next officer on video-tape that everyone will be watching hoping to learn from his mistakes.

I'm always willing to give our police force the benefit of the doubt, because I know it's a dangerous job. Notice I didn't criticize the officer pulling his own gun. But once the officer has the situation under control, then we expect them to exercise some judgement. This is NOT a police state!

It is quite easy to look at things from a distance and make a judgment, but when one is in the midst of the situation, they one does not have this luxury and often important decisions have to be made very quickly.

See above. A boy sitting in front of a store, found to have a toy gun. It scared someone enough to call the cops. Fine. The cops show up, and are very careful to make certain it's not a real gun the kid found and is waving around. Fine. Then they put the cuffs on the kid and arrest him, and his mother when she objected to this. That's going over the line. Any parent reading this is thinking "They would have had to arrest me, too". Unless new facts come to light, this is way overboard.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Tony


No, I think people should be able to use deadly force against a cop who is overstepping his bounds.

...

I sure would like to see you say this to a cops face as opposed to simply writing a note on a web forum that you will never have to be personally accountable for.

Tony, the ever brave e-warrior strikes again!

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Cinorjer
Unless new facts come to light, this is way overboard.
I agreed with this earlier, but I think it is very likely that the newspaper did not get the entire story. It did mention, though, that the kid has attention deficit disorder. There are a number of things that can cause this, including mild autism. As my wife (who teaches Special Education) will tell you, kids with learning disabilities also tend to have behavioral problems. Maybe the kid went nuts when the cop confronted him and the only way he could control him was to put the cuffs on him. If the kid continued to be out of control, then it is possible that the cop thought just releasing him would be dangerous.

I obviously don't know if this happened, but there are almost certainly facts that the article did not know or mention. The person who is really to blame is the mother who gave the kid a toy that had been modified to look more like a real gun, then left him unsupervised.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Crossbow
I sure would like to see you say this to a cops face as opposed to simply writing a note on a web forum that you will never have to be personally accountable for.

Tony, the ever brave e-warrior strikes again!
Tony has long indicated his antipathy towards the police. In this thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870018060&highlight=cops#post1870018060) he indicated that he would like them to stay away from him so that he can do whatever he likes. He's very worried about cops taking away his "rights", like his right to speed, his right to handle guns in an unsafe manner, etc. He shows all the hallmarks of a lawless, self-centered adolescent. I predict that if he displays this same attitude outside the safe confines of the internet, he will be seeing a lot of cops every day, through the bars of his cell. And Houston will be a safer place for it.

[AmateurScientist]

Originally posted by Tricky
The person who is really to blame is the mother who gave the kid a toy that had been modified to look more like a real gun, then left him unsupervised.

Really? A 9-yr-old? Come on, Tricky, 9-year-olds need not be supervised at all times. For Christ's sake, when I was 9, and I presume when you were 9 as well, I was old enough to wander around a mall alone, to meet my mother or father at a predetermined time and a predetermined place after my wandering. Hell, we rode our bikes about a mile to school every day when we were 7 and thereafter, as 6-year-olds were deemed too young to do so.

As for blaming the mother for her son's having a realistic looking toy gun, well I had lots of things my parents were not aware I had. I spray painted some of my toy guns, or painted them with Testor's paint from my plastic modelling, to make them look more real. It was all part of using one's imagination and being creative.

I'm not so quick to blame the mother for anything. I don't necessarily blame the kid either.

It's the absurd culture of fear that adults have created and foster that deserves scorn in this and similar instances.

Jesus Christ! Kids deserve to play like kids do. Playing with toy guns has been a nearly universal activity of American boys for generations. It's just plain stupid to criminalize or demonize that behavior merely because adults are too stupid and uncritical to distinguish between real and imaginary threats.

The guy who called the cop and the cop may have reacted without thinking sufficiently. Who knows? We don't have the whole story, but I'm not ready to blame the mother or the kid.

AS

[Cinorjer]

I obviously don't know if this happened, but there are almost certainly facts that the article did not know or mention. The person who is really to blame is the mother who gave the kid a toy that had been modified to look more like a real gun, then left him unsupervised.

I also agree with that. A nine year old boy should not be left unsupervised inside or outside a store, especialy if he has a problem like ADD (although I find suspect the huge number of kids that are diagnosed with this anymore). Just when a child is old enough to be left in the car or allowed to wander a shopping mall on their own is a judgement call, but age 9 has to be on the outside of the curve.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Crossbow

I sure would like to see you say this to a cops face as opposed to simply writing a note on a web forum that you will never have to be personally accountable for.



Why should I fear giving a political opinion to a cop?

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky

Tony has long indicated his antipathy towards the police. In this thread (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1870018060&highlight=cops#post1870018060) he indicated that he would like them to stay away from him so that he can do whatever he likes. He's very worried about cops taking away his "rights", like his right to speed, his right to handle guns in an unsafe manner, etc. He shows all the hallmarks of a lawless, self-centered adolescent. I predict that if he displays this same attitude outside the safe confines of the internet, he will be seeing a lot of cops every day, through the bars of his cell. And Houston will be a safer place for it.

Nice strawman, it's a pity to see that you have devolved into BS like this.

[Tmy]

Do people think teh cops were rightto arrest the kid? His mom was there and wanted to just take care of the situation herself, AND THEY ARRESTED HER TOO!!! ARe people OK with that? I understand freaking over what you thought was a real gun, but after they knew it was fake they still treated him like a terror suspect.

Damn when I was a kid our toy guns looked real and even shot fake bullets. Then we moved up to bb guns. NOt anymore. GUNS ARE EVIL. (ever buy toy guns for friends and familys kids? Its fun passive agressive gift giving)

Its more of the pussyfying of America. Boys cant be boys. Instead we end up with a bunch of girlymen. How can we fight war wh everyone being hippee sensitive freaks. Remember all the talk/news show hosts crying on air after 911? How embarrassing.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tmy
Its more of the pussyfying of America. Boys cant be boys. Instead we end up with a bunch of girlymen. How can we fight war wh everyone being hippee sensitive freaks. Remember all the talk/news show hosts crying on air after 911? How embarrassing.


I agree, and when you have a culture of knee-jerk gunophobia, it hastens the pussyfication. Look at Tricky for example, he thinks it soo horrible that this child has a TOY realistic gun. ITS A FREAKIN TOY, when I was a kid we had realistic toy guns and knives. This is a prime example of knee-jerk PCism out of control. What's next, kids getting arrested for having water guns at school? If we let the PC mongers, the fear mongers, safety nazis and bedwetting authoritarians take over, life will be so devoid of fun it practically won't be worth living.