Condoms For Africa

[Chris H]

http://www.fourseasonscondoms.com.au/donate.php

I've recently noticed that Four Seasons Condoms in Australia are running a campaign called 'Condoms For Africa'. It seems that anyone who buys a packet of their condoms is automatically eligible for two freebies, which they can have sent to them, or they can donate to the fund. Four Seasons will also match the donation, meaning that a total of four condoms will get donated each time.

I've only just found out about this, but I think it's a really great initiative. So Australians, start hitting the Four Seasons condoms and make your donation (there's a code inside the box). Anyone from overseas know of any similar campaigns?

Chris

[Old Bob]

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.

Does the Clue Train even have tracks in your neighbourhood? :boggled:

[Achán hiNidráne]

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.

I guess you'd prefer Africans to die from the horrible death known as AIDS?

What tralier park did this pile of redneck crap crawl out from?

[Chris H]

I don't think this is an issue of racism. It is estimated that about 21 million people in Africa have the AIDS virus, with approximately 5 million of those dying each year. It is also estimated that around 40-50% of Africa's population are Christian. Pope Benedict has recently reaffirmed the church's stance against the use of "artificial" birth control.

Pope reaffirms Church opposition to contraception (http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i7iy5b3DJryFJxuwzhzb224A4tRQ)

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to put two and two together and work out where a significant part of the problem stems from. Perhaps you should do a bit more research before shooting your mouth off next time?

Chris

[fls]

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.

While fecundity can increase the number of black people, so can longevity.

Linda

[geni]

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to put two and two together and work out where a significant part of the problem stems from.

Problem is that pretty much everyone else took that approach which means that our actual evidence on transmission vectors isn't too solid.

[geni]

While fecundity can increase the number of black people, so can longevity.

Linda

Not in the long run see european populations. In practice birth control doesn't appear to make a dent in population growth unless there is also a fair degree of wealth around as well.

[Michelle Lyon]

I love this! All the treatments on Earth for AIDS, malaria, hunger do no good at all when these things keep spreading. We need to also provide impoverished nations with more contraception and family planning options.

There may also be an issue of education about the use of contraceptives. Cultural beliefs, however incorrect, are very powerful. I mean, we are dealing with people who believe in penis-snatchers. If condoms are considered just as taboo, it would do no good to donate them. Can anyone else comment there?

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.

AIDS does not discriminate, darlin'. A penis is a penis.

[Damien Evans]

I guess you'd prefer Africans to die from the horrible death known as AIDS?

What tralier park did this pile of redneck crap crawl out from?

I'm guessing somewhere in the backblocks of Perth.

[Wildy]

I thought he was a Vic?

Didn't he say something about Victoria in that thread where he said that he knew a guy who knew a guy who sold Aborigines as slaves in the US?

[Skeptic]

Oh, for God's sake. What does racism has to do with it? If it was some sort of "Eugenics" plan, the "racist" Australians who hatched this "evil scheme" would not be having so many fewer childrens than the Africans to start with. The rationale for this program is almost certainly twofold: (a) if you have 2 or 3 children, you can care for each child better than if you have 10 or 12, and (b) to help stop the spread of AIDS in Africa, which would natrually be the opposite of what a racist would want.

I agree with geni that such plans don't seem to work out too well, since--as long as life expectany is low--having 10 children is an insurance, making sure at least a few will be around when you're old, while having 2 or 3 can easily mean losing them all. (This was how all humanity lived, more or less, before the modern era.) But even if the plan is naive, it's hardly an evil racist scheme.

[Damien Evans]

I thought he was a Vic?

Didn't he say something about Victoria in that thread where he said that he knew a guy who knew a guy who sold Aborigines as slaves in the US?

In that case, I amend my guess to Shepparton.

[Lonewulf]

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.

:eye-poppi:boggled::covereyes

[LarianLeQuella]

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.


So this tard isn't an American? I could have sworn I saw a a Palin 2012 sticker somewhere while this guy was wiping drool from his chin... :p

[Wildy]

So this tard isn't an American? I could have sworn I saw a a Palin 2012 sticker somewhere while this guy was wiping drool from his chin... :p

No. He's Australian apparently.

[Old Bob]

Yep, Aussi and proud of it. And live in QLD, sitting here in shorts and thongs waiting for some game to hop by.

[Lonewulf]

If Australia brings us people like that, I'll be just fine staying out.

[Damien Evans]

If Australia brings us people like that, I'll be just fine staying out.

No worse than you'll find in parts of Texas, say.

[Lonewulf]

No worse than you'll find in parts of Texas, say.

I've met them in Corpus Christi.

I'm not in a rush to meet them again.

[Baby Nemesis]

There may also be an issue of education about the use of contraceptives. Cultural beliefs, however incorrect, are very powerful. I mean, we are dealing with people who believe in penis-snatchers. If condoms are considered just as taboo, it would do no good to donate them. Can anyone else comment there?

Yes. Prostitutes often report that men are so reluctant to use condoms that the price they can get for sex without a condom is typically double or more what they'll be paid for sex with one. Because they want to make a living, it's very tempting to offer sex without asking men to use them.

Also, the culture in many parts is so male-dominated that it's more difficult for women to get what they want. See, for instance:

All over Africa, everyone from health officers to women's rights advocates to prostitutes complain that it is very difficult to get men to use condoms. Besides the usual complaints about sensitivity and lack of spontaneity, men argue that they are ''not part of African culture.''

''The men dictate what will be done, and the women have very little power to say no,'' said Dr. Neil Miller, an AIDS-education expert with the British embassy in Zimbabwe.
From an interesting article about the problems of condom distribution in Africa called Faulty Condoms Thwart AIDS Fight in Africa. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E07E1DC173FF934A15751C1A96E9582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

[Mister Agenda]

The AIDS rate in many African countries is over 20%, over 35% in a few particularly unfortunate nations. AIDS is being transmitted to children in the womb and through breast milk. Muslim countries in Africa seem to be faring better, which I have heard may be attributable to their practice of circumcision, but nothing we know of slows the spread of AIDS like regular condom use. Africa is losing millions of people a year to this disease, and is likely to suffer a population implosion if it is not got under control.

In other words, yes, even if it is an uphill battle and no magic bullet, it's worth the trouble to get more condoms to Africa if you have any interest at all in preventing deaths from AIDS.

[Safe-Keeper]

All over Africa, everyone from health officers to women's rights advocates to prostitutes complain that it is very difficult to get men to use condoms. Besides the usual complaints about sensitivity and lack of spontaneity, men argue that they are ''not part of African culture.''True that. AIDS is such a proud hallmark of Sub-Saharan Africa. Would be a pity for them to lose such a cultural icon. It's the first thing many of us think about when we hear of those guys, after all. Would be like Norwegians losing our fjords:rolleyes:.

Wow, and people call me a racist. How to get rid of ------- er black people with out them knowing.Ripping off JEROME, are we (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=109145)? Get your own troll angle.

* Safe-Keeper is disappointed by Old Bob's lack of creativity, and hopes he improves in the future.

[Lonewulf]

* Lonewulf tests the emotes that he forgot existed in this forum.

[Baby Nemesis]

True that. AIDS is such a proud hallmark of Sub-Saharan Africa. Would be a pity for them to lose such a cultural icon.

I actually know a welfare worker in Uganda, who said there's so much disease around there that a lot of people have a fatalistic kind of attitude to AIDS, just thinking of it as just another disease. Maybe that's part of the reason men don't see a special need to use condoms.

Another reason is that some have misguided beliefs. A lot of men think that since AIDS might be transmitted to them through vaginal fluid, if they can have sex without creating any, the sex will be disease-free. There are actually preparations in some African markets purported to dry out vaginas, and some prostitutes buy them, because they're more popular if men think there will be less risk of disease having sex with them. But of course, less lubrication makes it more likely that the prostitutes will catch AIDS or some other disease themselves, because it might get into the bloodstream more quickly if the sex causes even minor fischers.

Thus, education is an important thing. Just providing condoms isn't enough.

[Safe-Keeper]

BN: The concept of condoms being against manhood plays in, too, doesn't it?

[Baby Nemesis]

Yes. One problem is the macho culture in a lot of places, where men see fathering children as a sign of machoness, and giving in to a woman's request for them to wear a condom as cramping their style. But it's been found in some third world countries that had male-dominated cultures that increasing female literacy has had quite a marked effect on family planning issues. When women are more educated so they can access information about options available to them more easily, they have been able to take a more active role in deciding how they go about doing things, so they've gained more equality.

[sophia8]

Yep, Aussi and proud of it. And live in QLD, sitting here in shorts and thongs waiting for some game to hop by.Please, please do not post any photos of this. :eek::covereyes

[Old Bob]

True that. AIDS is such a proud hallmark of Sub-Saharan Africa. Would be a pity for them to lose such a cultural icon. It's the first thing many of us think about when we hear of those guys, after all. Would be like Norwegians losing our fjords:rolleyes:.

Ripping off JEROME, are we (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=109145)? Get your own troll angle.

* Safe-Keeper;4237523 is disappointed by Old Bob's lack of creativity, and hopes he improves in the future.

Will try but, how far can I go?

[ScepticMike]

The problems in Southern Africa are complex with educational, social, economic and cultural issues playing their part. The situation here in South Africa is sad with many rural villages run by children with no adults still alive. Condoms are one of the solutions.

A press release from the Treatment Action Campaign in November noted that the Government issues 33 million condoms a month (with a population of 46 million, half of whom are under the age of 15) and that a change over in supplier due to a tender process will result in only 7 million being distributed in December. At a donation of 2 condoms per pack I suggest the Ausies get going, South Africa is only about 26 million short....

[Wangler]

Muslim countries in Africa seem to be faring better, which I have heard may be attributable to their practice of circumcision, but nothing we know of slows the spread of AIDS like regular condom use.

Who do you mean when you say "we"?

I know that abstinance from sex (and intravenous drug use) does a far better job at slowing the spread of AIDS than regular condom use.

[rjh01]

The problems in Southern Africa are complex with educational, social, economic and cultural issues playing their part. The situation here in South Africa is sad with many rural villages run by children with no adults still alive. Condoms are one of the solutions.


I just wonder what will be the long term impact on Africa because of AIDS. If there are very few adults alive then living standards (and everything else related to this) will collapse from a low base. Could also nearly wipe out the population, if people do not survive to breeding age. The few that are left will have strict sex taboos and be nearly AIDS free. But at a hunter gathering standard of living.

[DarthFishy]

I just wonder what will be the long term impact on Africa because of AIDS. If there are very few adults alive then living standards (and everything else related to this) will collapse from a low base. Could also nearly wipe out the population, if people do not survive to breeding age. The few that are left will have strict sex taboos and be nearly AIDS free. But at a hunter gathering standard of living.

While the situation is horrifically bad I don't think it's really that dire. (I hope not anyway). I doubt that the population will be wiped out or that a hunter-gatherer standard of living will be the only outcome.

We will have to see though.

And yes I agree with ScepticMike that you Aussies better get cracking with the sex :)

* DarthFishy wonders if this could be used as a pick-up line?

[Darth Rotor]

I just wonder what will be the long term impact on Africa because of AIDS. If there are very few adults alive then living standards (and everything else related to this) will collapse from a low base. Could also nearly wipe out the population, if people do not survive to breeding age. The few that are left will have strict sex taboos and be nearly AIDS free. But at a hunter gathering standard of living.

How much of a problem is AIDS north of the Sahara?

[ScepticMike]

The incidence of adult less villages occurs in the deeper rural regions and is fortunately not the norm but the incidence is increasing. The problems these children face are enormous as they are generally without any form of income, education or stable food source. Interestingly, governments in Southern Africa have been rather quiet over the problem of AIDS orphans. There are sometimes social workers who visit the areas but resources are extremely limited. Survival becomes the key concern and without the transfer of knowledge from adults the older children are ill equipped to deal with society when they move to urban areas to try to generate income and are often subjected to abuse. In the more urbanised areas extended families try to cope with orphans but this usually drags these extended family networks into poverty. There were an estimated 1.4 million AIDS orphans in South Africa in 2007 compared to 780 000 in 2003. That’s about 3% of the total population, just under half of these orphans are under 10.

The region isn’t at a point where society is about to collapse but it has serious problems and there are isolated areas where hope seems faint.

A study in two of the neighbouring countries showed that people who have less food are more likely to engage in unprotected sex than those with adequate food supplies, it also showed that these people were likely to engage in acts of sex in exchange for food.

It is hard to describe the sadness and depth of the problem here without sounding completely negative and in need of mood altering medication but it is sad. Studies on the psychological and emotional effects on these children are just so heartbreaking to read.

I have provided some statistics below to illustrate the depth of the HIV/AIDS problem. South Africa and most of Southern Africa have seen significant economic growth over the last decade and at face value the region has done well. The question is really how well could it have done without the loss of economically active people, teachers and the cost of healthcare. The exception to the economic growth in the region is Zimbabwe where inflation is running at around 230 million percent per annum but that is an entirely different issue and could be the subject of a separate topic about how not to run a government.

Africa North of the Sahara tends to be Muslim and has far stricter rules on sexuality so infection rates are far lower. South Africa and Nigeria are the economic hubs of sub Saharan Africa so labour migration tends to circulate around those countries, helping circulate the infection.

In the early 90’s, some researchers forecasted the collapse of the economy and society within 10 to 20 years but this has not happened and doesn’t appear likely. Here are some entirely depressing stats though:
• 1 in 5 South Africans are infected with HIV
• Over 50% of total deaths and 70% of deaths of people aged between 15 and 49 are estimated to be caused by AIDS
• Average life expectancy has dropped to 54 with half of people under 15 not expected to reach 60
• 21% of teachers are estimated to be HIV positive
• South Africans spend more time at funerals than they do having their hair cut
• The prevalence of HIV in pregnant women was 30.2% in 2005 (27.9% in 2003; 24.8% in 2001; 22.4% in 1999; 17% in 1997; 12.2% in 1996 and 4.3% in 1993)


Some background info for the non South Africans:
This is pretty depressing stuff and something you’d expect the Government to be applying its full attention to. Not the case. In their defence the 90’s were a time of political transformation from apartheid and that took a lot of effort, they have also done a lot of good in other domains. HIV/AIDS is not one of the Government success stories. A UN envoy criticised the countries AIDS response as ‘obtuse and stupid’ and he was probably being polite. He also said Government theories were more worthy of a ‘lunatic fringe’.

Until a power shift in the ruling party ousted the previous President earlier this year, Governments handling of the crisis was negligent at best. The previous President was on record for saying that there was no proof that HIV causes AIDS. He consulted with a number of scientists that deny the link between HIV and AIDS and although he did not say it publicly, it appears that he believed poverty to be the main cause of AIDS. His minister of health was a classic, she was a great believer in the use of nutrition to combat AIDS with beetroot and vitamins being her favourites. She resisted and delayed the use of ARV’s and only implemented a plan in 2003. This plan has not been driven and it was estimated that only 28% of people in need of the drug were being treated at the end of 2007. Fortunately she was ousted with the previous President and the new Minister of Health has a lot more sense. In contrast with the new Health Minister, the new leader of the ruling party is on record during his trial for raping an HIV positive woman (for which he was acquitted) as saying he knew she was HIV positive but he took a shower afterwards and believed he was safe.

In contrast with South Africa, some countries have done an excellent job of working with churches, educators and Non Governmental Agencies to tackle the problem (again excluding Zimbabwe where the mismanagement of the country has caused people to starve to death instead).

Back to the subject at hand:
In the 5 days since I last visited this thread, South Africa needed 5.3 million condoms. At a donation of 2 condoms per pack, 2.65 million packs should have been sold requiring Australians to perform 31 million acts of sex during this period if an average pack size of 12 is used. If the average pack size for the donation is 3, the burden would be reduced to only 7.95 million acts of sex. With a population of 20 million and assuming Australians don’t use a condom if they are on their own this appears to be doable – that’s only between one and 3 acts of sex per 5 days per pair of Australians. Are you keeping up with your social responsibility?

[rjh01]

<snip>

In the early 90’s, some researchers forecasted the collapse of the economy and society within 10 to 20 years but this has not happened and doesn’t appear likely. Here are some entirely depressing stats though:
• 1 in 5 South Africans are infected with HIV
• Over 50% of total deaths and 70% of deaths of people aged between 15 and 49 are estimated to be caused by AIDS
• Average life expectancy has dropped to 54 with half of people under 15 not expected to reach 60
• 21% of teachers are estimated to be HIV positive
• South Africans spend more time at funerals than they do having their hair cut
• The prevalence of HIV in pregnant women was 30.2% in 2005 (27.9% in 2003; 24.8% in 2001; 22.4% in 1999; 17% in 1997; 12.2% in 1996 and 4.3% in 1993)

<snip>[/B]

Great, if depressing, post.

If the % of pregnant women with HIV goes up at that rate then 50% will be infected by 2015 and 100% by 2028. My calculations are done by multiplying the previous number by 1.1111 and adding two to the year. That is how fast the infection rate is going up by your figures.

Of course infection rates will slow down before then. However it does mean that in 10+ years or so there will be an increasing % of orphans many with HIV themselves (if they have not died from AIDS).

And Darth Rotor is right. In my previous post I should have said Africa south of the Sahara. Not all of Africa.

[Safe-Keeper]

Wow, Mike, that's one heck of a first (or second, or third) post. Welcome aboard.

[Fatfreddy]

"Four Seasons" Condoms?
I've never encountered one so durable, or warm!

Maybe one for the JREF challenge?

[Darth Rotor]

Mike, welcome to the scrum, and thanks for a fine post. Repeated as food for thought:
Africa North of the Sahara tends to be Muslim and has far stricter rules on sexuality so infection rates are far lower. South Africa and Nigeria are the economic hubs of sub Saharan Africa so labour migration tends to circulate around those countries, helping circulate the infection.
Things that influence behavior for fifty, Alex. ;)

[ScepticMike]

Appreciate the compliments from veteran posters, makes the time to collate the facts worth while.