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View Full Version : The definition of Wishful thinking per se


Ron_Tomkins
8th October 2008, 08:51 PM
There's a scene in the movie "Dumb and Dumber" which I think illustrates how most people who lean towards woo, approach the matter.

In the scene, Jim Carrey's character asks the girl he's in love with "What is the chance that you and I could be together?" to which she replies "Honestly? Like... one in a billion". Jim Carrey's face freezes and we get the feeling that he's going to cry. Instead he says "You mean that there IS a chance?" and he bursts into tears but of joy.


Usually people who want so badly to believe in a specific supernatural explanation (for example, that the spots caught on camera were a ghost), will settle with the fact that the scientific reasoning is not that it's entirely impossible that such thing was a ghost. What skeptics explain to them it's that it's not a matter of it being entirely impossible, it's just very very unlikely. To quote one of my favorite ones:

Richard Feynman:
"...I have argued flying saucers with lots of people. (Incidently, I must explain that because I am a scientists does not mean I have not had contact with human beings. Ordinary human beings, I know what they are like. I go to Las Vegas and talk to the show girls and the gamblers and so on. I have banged around alot in my life, so I know about ordinary people.) Anyway, I have to argue about flying saucers on the beach with people, you know. And I was interested in this: they keep arguing that it is possible. And that's true. It is possible. They do not appreciate that the problem is not to demonstrate whether it's possible or not but whether it's going on or not. Whether it's probably occuring or not, not whether it could occur.


"That brings me to the fourth kind of attitude toward ideas, and that is that the problem is not what is possible. That's not the problem. The problem is what is probable, what is happening. It does no good to demonstrate again and again that you can't disprove that this could be a flying saucer. We have to guess ahead of time whether we have to worry about the marian invasion. We have to make a judgement about whether it is a flying saucer, whether it's reasonable, whether it's likely. And we do that on the basis of a lot more experience than whether it's just possible, because the number of things that are possible is not fully appreciated by the average individual. And it is also not clear, then, to them how many things that are possible must not be happening. That it's impossible that everything that is possible is happening. And there is too much variety, so most likely anything that you think of that is possible isn't true. In fact that's a general principle in physics theories: no matter what a guy thinks of, it's almost always false. So there have been five or ten theories that have been right in the history of physics, and those are the ones we want. But that doesn't mean everthing is false. We'll find out."



Indeed, the fallacy seems too huge not to be recognized. To acknowledge the fact that something is not impossible, does not follow that the specific thing you want to believe as an explanation is true. There is also an infinite amount of explanations that are also not impossible and which makes them just as likely (or should as say, as unlikely) to be the actual explanation.

One way to sort out the reality of matters is to ask ourselves: Do I feel any different when thinking of this particular explanation rather than this other one? The real explanation, whatever it is, should have nothing to do with what we wish it was. However, this is where the whole fallacy rests upon. Thus the terminology "wishful thinking".

Now, each one must stop and analyze their own life and check on how many other things does this apply. Because the problem is that, deep down, we are all skeptics to a certain degree... we're not just consistent enough.

Kittyclaws
8th October 2008, 10:31 PM
Wishful thinking is writing an email to the executives and bargaining committee of the large company you work for, outlining in detail the disparity in treatment of employees, wages, healthcare, pension, etc., and allowing yourself to think they'll understand and take appropriate action.

lionking
8th October 2008, 10:40 PM
Wishful thinking is writing an email to the executives and bargaining committee of the large company you work for, outlining in detail the disparity in treatment of employees, wages, healthcare, pension, etc., and allowing yourself to think they'll understand and take appropriate action.

Oh yes! This is close to what a teacher friend of mine did. He was on a year's "release to industry" program working with an IT company. He wanted to stay and probably would have. EXCEPT, he thought it would be a really good idea to write to the General Manager about problems with the running of the company, from the GM down. Back to school mate.............

But my weekly experience in wishful thinking is buying a lottery ticket. Not only do I imagine winning, but I have worked out in fine detail exactly what I would do with the winnings.

Ron_Tomkins
8th October 2008, 10:42 PM
Wishful thinking is writing an email to the executives and bargaining committee of the large company you work for, outlining in detail the disparity in treatment of employees, wages, healthcare, pension, etc., and allowing yourself to think they'll understand and take appropriate action.

I take it.... you're the person who wrote this e-mail? :)

lionking
8th October 2008, 10:47 PM
Double post

Kittyclaws
8th October 2008, 11:02 PM
I take it.... you're the person who wrote this e-mail? :)

Um yes. I mean no. I mean...who are you and who do you work for? It wasn't me, I don't even have a computer and I certainly never use it while intoxicated.

ETA: Although I think lotto is a tax for people who can't do math, I will admit to occasionally buying a ticket and wallowing in the visions of how I'd spend the money. $1 for permission to fantasize. Not such a bad deal, I guess, as long as it's a rare indulgence.

arthwollipot
9th October 2008, 12:43 AM
Who needs to pay for permission to fantasise?

Kevin_Lowe
9th October 2008, 01:48 AM
Who needs to pay for permission to fantasise?

I know what you're thinking. That will be $1.

Ron_Tomkins
9th October 2008, 11:09 AM
Um yes. I mean no. I mean...who are you and who do you work for? It wasn't me, I don't even have a computer and I certainly never use it while intoxicated.

Hey hey, now.... . It's ok. I'm not your boss :)

: Although I think lotto is a tax for people who can't do math, I will admit to occasionally buying a ticket and wallowing in the visions of how I'd spend the money. $1 for permission to fantasize. Not such a bad deal, I guess, as long as it's a rare indulgence.

Well, these are guilty pleasures that we take the liberty of enjoying every once in a while. After all, it is not impossible that it could happen so the pleasure it's not 100% guilty in the end.

Piscivore
9th October 2008, 11:45 AM
Nice OP, Ron.

Ron_Tomkins
9th October 2008, 11:48 AM
Nice OP, Ron.

Thank you sir. I was just thinking about that and all of a sudden I had to let it out.

Moochie
10th October 2008, 12:32 PM
Wishful thinking is writing an email to the executives and bargaining committee of the large company you work for, outlining in detail the disparity in treatment of employees, wages, healthcare, pension, etc., and allowing yourself to think they'll understand and take appropriate action.


I did the above, but simply argued that I had worked above and beyond the call of duty (which I had) and since I hadn't had a raise in many years, I felt I was owed one then.

I got the raise, and annual increments after that.

ETA: My weekly lotto ticket is my "wishful thinking." :)


M.

Ron_Tomkins
10th October 2008, 10:49 PM
I know many of you will say that this is wishful thinking but I don't care: I'm gonna apply for the green card lottery anyway. :)