Is Obama a Natural Born Citizen?

[h.g.Whiz]

http://obamacrimes.com/

Where was Barrack Obama born Hawaii or Kenya?

[MattusMaximus]

Hawaii, which is in the United States. Learn how to read a map, genius :rolleyes:

[GreyICE]

http://obamacrimes.com/

Where was Barrack Obama born Hawaii or Kenya?

Neither. He was obviously born on Mars, and the birth certificate was forged by the New World Order.

[MattusMaximus]

GreyICE's answer is better. Ignore my response.

[JoeTheJuggler]

And h.g.Whiz, while you're back to this stuff again--Obama isn't Muslim.

Not that there's anything wrong with it.

[BenBurch]

He is as much an American as McCain who was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

[h.g.Whiz]

Will somebody clink the link I provided.and tell me if its bogus or not.

[DavidJames]

Will somebody clink the link I provided.and tell me if its bogus or not.
You manged to find that site, keep looking and I bet you can find the correct answer.

[MattusMaximus]

Anyone wonder just how much money the author of the "Obama Crimes" site, Phil Berg, is going to make off gullible right-wingers who get suckered into donating to the site?

I'm going to guess that very little of that money will ever actually be used to pursue a court case.

Barnum was right :rolleyes:

[BenBurch]

Will somebody clink the link I provided.and tell me if its bogus or not.

I did read it and it is bogus. But it is a useful lie to tell because it will cement some votes from nutcases.

[Dr Adequate]

Neither. He was obviously born on Mars ... So that's why he's "green behind the ears".

[MattusMaximus]

I wonder if the "Obama Crimes" author is the same Philip J. Berg as this one - who seems to be a 9/11 Truther and, according to this site, Nutbar Supreme...

http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/01/philip-j-berg-nutbar-supreme.html

[h.g.Whiz]

I did read it and it is bogus. But it is a useful lie to tell because it will cement some votes from nutcases.

How can you tell that its bogus.

[MattusMaximus]

How can you tell that its bogus.


How do you know it isn't? The burden of proof is upon you, pal. If the United States government has vetted this guy and accepts his citizenship, then you apparently need to prove it to them as well.

Good luck with that.

[JoeTheJuggler]

How can you tell that its bogus.

Here's his birth certificate (http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg).

At the very least, you should read the Snopes article (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp) debunking this internet rumor.

[BenBurch]

How can you tell that its bogus.

Because a long while back (like 4 years) people who knew his parents at the time of his birth were interviewed on the radio, and they were from Hawaii.

And I have seen his Birth Certificate.

And because only racist swine believe it.

[h.g.Whiz]

Because a long while back (like 4 years) people who knew his parents at the time of his birth were interviewed on the radio, and they were from Hawaii.

And I have seen his Birth Certificate.

And because only racist swine believe it.

Like who?

[BenBurch]

Like who?

Why utter racist swine even crazier than a John Bircher.

[JoeTheJuggler]

And because only racist swine believe it.
Like who?

I can respond to this one!

You can put lipstick on a racist swine, but it's still just a racist swine.

Read that Snopes article yet, h.g.Whiz?

[UnrepentantSinner]

If Obama isn't a Kenyan citizen why was Jerome Corsi arrested?

Hmmmm? Explain that!

[h.g.Whiz]

I can respond to this one!

You can put lipstick on a racist swine, but it's still just a racist swine.

Read that Snopes article yet, h.g.Whiz?

I just did ,thanks

[BenBurch]

If Obama isn't a Kenyan citizen why was Jerome Corsi arrested?

Hmmmm? Explain that!

Because not all flowers are sad?

[Nyarlathotep]

posted to the wrong ***** thread, fuggedaboutit

[Whiplash]

I don't care if he's a natural born citizen as much as I care if he's a natural born killer.

[Ausmerican]

I don't care if he's a natural born citizen as much as I care if he's a natural born killer.

Que?

[Whiplash]

Sorry, my own poor attempt at humor.

[Skeptic]

http://obamacrimes.com/

Something about that URL address tells me it might not be 100% objective.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Because not all flowers are sad?

That doesn't answer the question that still isn't being answered - who is this person? What do we really know about B. Hussein Obama? Why am I not hearing anything about William Ayers on the MSM?

[kallsop]

Why am I not hearing anything about William Ayers on the MSM?


Apparently Ayers is in hiding until after the election. Besides, it's very easy to not find someone you aren't looking for.

All the media are in Alaska, interviewing Sarah Palin's childrens teachers and people she once came within 100 feet of.

[ryanebelhar]

That doesn't answer the question that still isn't being answered - who is this person? What do we really know about B. Hussein Obama? Why am I not hearing anything about William Ayers on the MSM?

Because you live in a cave with your eyes closed and fingers in your ears.

[Nogbad]

I thought he was made by black magic and lots of cackling

The terrible work of Terrorists, Black supremacists and Mueslis*






*That is what I heard on Fox News this morning

[varwoche]

The sheriff is near.

[Upchurch]

Here's his birth certificate (http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg).

At the very least, you should read the Snopes article (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp) debunking this internet rumor.
Seriously, this has been addressed and fact-checked countless times. I think there is a limitation on how long one can play the "I'm just asking questions" game.

[Megalodon]

I thought he was made by black magic and lots of cackling

The terrible work of Terrorists, Black supremacists and Mueslis*

Well, my muesli has 67% of the recommended daily allowance of evil...

Never had terrorist, though...

[Megalodon]

I think there is a limitation on how long one can play the "I'm just asking questions" game.

You should spend more time on the 9-11 CT forum...

[DavidJames]

Seriously, this has been addressed and fact-checked countless times. I think there is a limitation on how long one can play the "I'm just asking questions" game.I suggest you avoid the 9/11 CT forum. Not only is there no time limitation, it seems to be a prerequisite for entry :D

[Tricky]

The sheriff is near.
You've got to remember that these are just simple Republicans. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new conservatives. You know...

[UnrepentantSinner]

Apparently Ayers is in hiding until after the election. Besides, it's very easy to not find someone you aren't looking for.

All the media are in Alaska, interviewing Sarah Palin's childrens teachers and people she once came within 100 feet of.

Great points. Just last night on some talk radio show I heard someone about how Katie Couric didn't ask Sarah Palin how she felt about Obama rooming with Ayers in college. Will the MSM do nothing to help us learn anything about B. Hussein Obama or will they stop the charade and just come out and tell us to vote for him.

Also I saw Keith Olbermann on MSNBC accosting one of Brinn's teachers on Tuesday asking him if he'd had sex with her and was he the father of the child that was forcing her into her shotgun (admittedly, baby daddy is wolf sized so he'd be a perfect target from the helicopter) wedding.

Because you live in a cave with your eyes closed and fingers in your ears.

No! I've been reading the New York Times, the Washington Post, Newsweek and Time and watching ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC and the BBC for years now and there never has been a mention of Ayers and how he and Obama have been playing poker every Sunday morning - when a "Christian" would have been in church - not that I'm suggesting Obama isn't a Christian.. you know, like if he were a Muslim.

Why don't we know a single thing at all about this man?

[geni]

I don't care if he's a natural born citizen as much as I care if he's a natural born killer.

It is a legitimate concern yes but the process of pressing the button has probably been made impersonal enough that even a sane person can do it thus MAD probably reamains intact.

[David Wong]

No! I've been reading the New York Times, the Washington Post, Newsweek and Time and watching ABC, CBS, CNN, NBC and the BBC for years now and there never has been a mention of Ayers and how he and Obama have been playing poker every Sunday morning - when a "Christian" would have been in church - not that I'm suggesting Obama isn't a Christian.. you know, like if he were a Muslim.

Why don't we know a single thing at all about this man?

YES! When is the media going to finally talk about this secretive recluse! I'm sick of all these smoke screens about "the issues" and "Obama's plans for the country" and "the economic collapse." Enough of that trivial stuff! We need to know whether or not he played cards while he should have been in church!

[The Central Scrutinizer]

http://obamacrimes.com/

Where was Barrack Obama born Hawaii or Kenya?

Obama is a muslim.

[Loss Leader]

I think that it is well settled now that Obama is the anti-christ reborn to carry out the scriptural duty of destroying America.

The only questions that remains are: 1) what the weather was like on the day that he was born in Kenya; 2) whether his Imam agrees that such deception is forgiveable in pursuit of Jihad; and 3) what type of tool he uses to file down his horns.

[geni]

Enough of that trivial stuff! We need to know whether or not he played cards while he should have been in church!

Going by the amount of trouble going to church got obama into he might well want to opt for the playing cards version of events.

[GreyICE]

I suggest you avoid the 9/11 CT forum. Not only is there no time limitation, it seems to be a prerequisite for entry :D

I'm just asking questions. Granted, these questions are so stupid that its a wonder my brain doesn't spontaneously climb down my spine and strangle me, but hey! Just asking!

[GreyICE]

Obama is a muslim.

At least he's not a: :gnome:

TCS, are you a :gnome: ?

[BenBurch]

...

Never had terrorist, though...

Them's good eatin'.

[UnrepentantSinner]

TCS, are you a :gnome: ?

Yes...

... but in this thread, not 1/4 the :gnome: I have been. :p

[Shalamar]

Obama is a muslim.

That means he's an EVIL TERRORIST.. right?

[MattusMaximus]

Obama's an atheist Muslim!!!

[Tricky]

That means he's an EVIL TERRORIST.. right?
Oh no you don't. We're not going to play that "Good Terrorist/Bad Terrorist" game.

[Whiplash]

That means he's an EVIL TERRORIST.. right?

Just as much as calling someone a Christian means that they are homophobic biggots and racists.

[dudalb]

This has just as much creditibility as the BS about McCain not being a natural born US Citizen.
In other words, none.

[Lemastre]

That doesn't answer the question that still isn't being answered - who is this person? What do we really know about B. Hussein Obama? Why am I not hearing anything about William Ayers on the MSM?
Mr Obama is running for president of the U.S. and has held or holds legislative positions in that country and its state of Illinois. He has a wife and two daughters. His acquaintance with Mr Ayers has been brought up by his opponents during his previous electoral campaigns and so far has detracted nothing from his qualifications or voter approval.

My own question is what do we really know about Alan Smithee, e.g., how does he find time and stamina to submit 19,806 comments to this forum? That's almost eight per day, with no holidays. Perhaps he wouldn't have heard about Mr Ayers via MSM because he's too busy posting comments, not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Coffee]

You've got to remember that these are just simple Republicans. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new conservatives. You know...

Sheriff Bart won the hearts of "the common clay of the land". Will Obama do the same? It's doubtful.

[Shalamar]

Just as much as calling someone a Christian means that they are homophobic biggots and racists.

Yup. I know. I find the whole thing mystifying. If he's a Muslim.. so what?

[JoeTheJuggler]

Yup. I know. I find the whole thing mystifying. If he's a Muslim.. so what?

That's why I say Obama's response should have been, "I'm not a Muslim--not that there's anything wrong with that!"

[Lemastre]

Yup. I know. I find the whole thing mystifying. If he's a Muslim.. so what?
I suspect it's because if he attends services at the Washington National Cathedral, the nondenominational cathedral where pols claiming to be christian for political reasons can go to be seen in an ornate and churchly setting, they have no provision for prayer rugs. There may be a Secret Service approved multidenominational synagogue/mosque (what a combo, hey?) for nonchristian officeholders, but I'm not that familiar with D.C.

[h.g.Whiz]

Who did Obama piss off for this topic to get back into the news ?
I read an article about it in the Dallas Morning News the other day.
Is it odd that hot seat was mentioned in it just like in the link below?

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/24/hot-seat-obamas-birth-certificate/

[Dr Adequate]

Who did Obama piss off for this topic to get back into the news ? Mad people.

[Molinaro]

How can you tell that its bogus.

Are you suggesting that the birth notice in the local Hawaii newspaper announcing his birth, was actualy placed way back then as stage 1 in their plan than finaly came to fruition, when he became president?

[Molinaro]

Who did Obama piss off for this topic to get back into the news ?
I read an article about it in the Dallas Morning News the other day.
Is it odd that hot seat was mentioned in it just like in the link below?

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/24/hot-seat-obamas-birth-certificate/

It's back in the news because some woman stood up in a town hall meeting somewhere and started going on about it. She then got the whole audience to join her in saying the pledge of allegiance. It was caught on video... CNN picked it up ... and on and on and on it goes..

[MaGZ]

I have been told there is a video of Obama's grandmother claiming he was born in Kenya? Anyone know of this?

[Blender Head]

I have been told there is a video of Obama's grandmother claiming he was born in Kenya? Anyone know of this?

There's audio of a street preacher named Ron McRae who met Obama's step-grandmother named "Sarah" Obama, and he asked -through a translator- if she was present for Obama's birth in Kenya. Through mistranslation, she said 'yes', and the guy ran with it.

In that interview, Sarah Obama does in fact say at one point that she was there for her grandson's birth. But that was a mistake, a confusion in translation. As soon as a jubilant McRae began to press her for further details about her grandson being born in Kenya, the family realized the mistake and corrected him. And corrected him. And corrected him.

Click here (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room) for more information.

[MaGZ]

Thanks for the info. I suppose if there was more to this then his half brothers and sisters would know he was born in Kenya.

[Marc39]

And h.g.Whiz, while you're back to this stuff again--Obama isn't Muslim.

So he has said. When was the last time he's been to church?

[Blender Head]

Thanks for the info. I suppose if there was more to this then his half brothers and sisters would know he was born in Kenya.

You're welcome.

I assert two possibilities:

1) "Sarah" assumed through the interpreter that McRae was asking about Obama Sr. though I don't know the history or relationship between the two.

2) That "Sarah" was indeed present in Kenya for Obama Jr's birth...in Hawaii.

[Tricky]

Does anyone else here think it is time for the US to scrap this rule about being a natural born citizen? There are no such restrictions for other national offices (other than VP.) It is quite paranoid to suggest that a person who has been a citizen for many years is suddenly going to become a traitor when they get to be president. I don't think many people believe Schwarzenagger is actually serving Austria. With increased international mixing, it is less and less tenable to insist on such a rule.

Personally, I think that Obama is a better president for having lived abroad part of his childhood. Had he done so and his parents had been citizens of those countries at the time, that would not change my opinion.

[MattusMaximus]

The hilarious thing is that a lot of more mainstream conservatives are now telling the nutters to pipe down about Obama's citizenship, because they're afraid it's going to make the GOP look bad...

‘Birthers’: New burst of attention for old doubts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32114091)

[Foolmewunz]

Does anyone else here think it is time for the US to scrap this rule about being a natural born citizen? There are no such restrictions for other national offices (other than VP.) It is quite paranoid to suggest that a person who has been a citizen for many years is suddenly going to become a traitor when they get to be president. I don't think many people believe Schwarzenagger is actually serving Austria. With increased international mixing, it is less and less tenable to insist on such a rule.

Personally, I think that Obama is a better president for having lived abroad part of his childhood. Had he done so and his parents had been citizens of those countries at the time, that would not change my opinion.

That's going to depend upon who's in the ascendency, politically. As long as Arnold's out there on the West Coast, there's no Democrat going to vote for amending this.

As he ages and/or fades, the next foreign-born hero's likely to be a raging liberal, so then no Republican would get behind it. It's a really dumb rule that we're sort of stuck with because neither side wants to give the other's fair-haired boy a shot at the big brass ring.

Sort of like Presidential term limits. Neither side is enough in favor or against when it'll help or harm their opponents.

[Dr Adequate]

So he has said. When was the last time he's been to church? More recently than the last time I went to church. Am I a Muslim?

A more pertinent question might be: when was the last time he went to a mosque?

[h.g.Whiz]

Does anyone else here think it is time for the US to scrap this rule about being a natural born citizen? There are no such restrictions for other national offices (other than VP.) It is quite paranoid to suggest that a person who has been a citizen for many years is suddenly going to become a traitor when they get to be president. I don't think many people believe Schwarzenagger is actually serving Austria. With increased international mixing, it is less and less tenable to insist on such a rule.

Personally, I think that Obama is a better president for having lived abroad part of his childhood. Had he done so and his parents had been citizens of those countries at the time, that would not change my opinion.


What! :jaw-dropp
Can you imagine what would happen to the population of birfers if congress proposed to scrap it now ?


I think the people who believe Obama is natural born should receive just as much of the whacko brush as those who believe that Obama is not natural born.

All I am asking for is proof, of the real variety. An image online is not proof in my book.

If Obama was really born in Kenya I could care less, what concerns me is identifying those who decided to cover it up, those who assisted in covering it up, and those who knew about it but said nothing.

Just like how Labron getting dunked by a kid was not as big a deal as Nike covering it up

[Dancing David]

It's back in the news because some woman stood up in a town hall meeting somewhere and started going on about it. She then got the whole audience to join her in saying the pledge of allegiance. It was caught on video... CNN picked it up ... and on and on and on it goes..

Lou Dobbs seems to be having fun with it...

[Kritikos]

I think the people who believe Obama is natural born should receive just as much of the whacko brush as those who believe that Obama is not natural born.
Well, let's see: On the one hand (A), we have people who are asking us to believe that Sandra Dunham, when she was pregnant, for God knows what reason left her residence in Hawaii and traveled to her husband's original home of Kenya (where he was not living at the time) in order to give birth there; that she or her parents also arranged to have false announcements planted in the newspapers in Honolulu at the time; that she or some unknown person or persons induced or compelled the members of the Obama family in Kenya to deny this and to propagate the lie that Barack II was born in Hawaii; that the same or other unknown persons also induced or compelled state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino of the State of Hawaii to propagate this same lie and to make the false statement in public that she had handled the original birth certificate; and that similarly unknown persons induced or compelled the State of Hawaii to issue a forged "certification of live birth," all of this without anyone who was involved in the conspiracy coming clean about it. Supporters of this cause have resorted to demonstrable misrepresentation in order to make it appear that Sarah Obama had said that her step-grandson was born in her presence in Kenya and have made other desperate and false claims about the absence of a seal on the certification of live birth and so on -- all of which, presumably, we are not supposed to regard as casting any doubt on the legitimacy of their claims.

On the other hand (B), we have people who are asking us to believe that Obama was born where his certificate of live birth, a contemporary newspaper announcement, everyone in his family, and all the officials of the State of Hawaii who are concerned in the matter say that he was born.

In other words, we have, on side A, a classic case of conspiratorial delusion, and on side B, common sense.

Your claim that both parties are equally "whacko" is, to put it mildly, unpersuasive.

[CptColumbo]

There's audio of a street preacher named Ron McRae who met Obama's step-grandmother named "Sarah" Obama, and he asked -through a translator- if she was present for Obama's birth in Kenya. Through mistranslation, she said 'yes', and the guy ran with it.



Click here (http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy/index.html?source=rss&aim=/politics/war_room) for more information.

G. Gordon Liddy claims it was a sworn affidavit.

Chris Matthews asked him what would convince him that President Obama was a natural born citizen. Then produced what Liddy asked for, and saw the goal posts move.
E6ilvPTW3lE

BTW In 1961, if you were born in Kenya, would you be a Kenyan citizen or a UK citizen?

[lightfire22000]

I'd like a lawyer's perspective on this because:

Does it even matter?

Does the 14th amendment say anything about running for President?

At the time that eligibility rule was made, citizenship was determined by the state. An individual state could decide whether you were natural born or not. So can Hawaii declare him natural born as far as the criteria for the Presidency is concerned?

Besides, it's a stupid rule.

[boloboffin]

Actually, Democrats probably wouldn't have to worry about Arnold running for the presidency these days. I mean, falling off into the San Andreas seems like one of California's brighter options.

The "natural-born citizen" thing was good for a fledgling country. Times have changed. Ax it.

[Tricky]

We didn't have a president who was born an American citizen until Martin Van Buren. How did we manage to survive with all these potentially traitorous former British subjects running the country?:rolleyes:

[linusrichard]

All I am asking for is proof, of the real variety. An image online is not proof in my book.

Then why are you asking here?


Maybe it should be asked - what would you accept as proof?

[David Wong]

Then why are you asking here?


Maybe it should be asked - what would you accept as proof?

He... he apparently is asking for the physical document that he can hold in his hands??? I guess we just pass it around America so everybody can touch it?

He has to be joking. Has to be. We have exactly as much proof that Obama is natural born as we had for any president. They've even got the freaking newspaper announcement from that day.

[BenBurch]

Does anyone else here think it is time for the US to scrap this rule about being a natural born citizen? There are no such restrictions for other national offices (other than VP.) It is quite paranoid to suggest that a person who has been a citizen for many years is suddenly going to become a traitor when they get to be president. I don't think many people believe Schwarzenagger is actually serving Austria. With increased international mixing, it is less and less tenable to insist on such a rule.

Personally, I think that Obama is a better president for having lived abroad part of his childhood. Had he done so and his parents had been citizens of those countries at the time, that would not change my opinion.

Its original purpose was to prevent European nobility from establishing itself here.

[Thunder]

please move this garbage to conspiracy theories.

[UnrepentantSinner]

It's back in the news because some woman stood up in a town hall meeting somewhere and started going on about it. She then got the whole audience to join her in saying the pledge of allegiance. It was caught on video... CNN picked it up ... and on and on and on it goes..
The hilarious thing is that a lot of more mainstream conservatives are now telling the nutters to pipe down about Obama's citizenship, because they're afraid it's going to make the GOP look bad...

‘Birthers’: New burst of attention for old doubts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32114091)
I just started a thread showing the video and discussing how Michael Medved was smacking the birfers down last night.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=149151

So he has said. When was the last time he's been to church?

Why should that matter? Hell, why would it matter if he were a Muslim?

[Brainiac]

He... he apparently is asking for the physical document that he can hold in his hands??? I guess we just pass it around America so everybody can touch it?

He has to be joking. Has to be. We have exactly as much proof that Obama is natural born as we had for any president. They've even got the freaking newspaper announcement from that day.
It sounds more like the only way he would believe it would be if he could travel back in time and witness the birth himself.

Even then, he probably wouldn't believe it. People who believe in conspiracy theories are awfully stubborn.

[h.g.Whiz]

please move this garbage to conspiracy theories.


If your gonna dig in my trash thats fine by me, just don't get mad if you can't find anything you like. :p

[CORed]

What I find interesting about the interview where Obama's "grandmother" supposedly admitted that Obama was born in Kenya, is the phrasing of the question: "Were you present when Obama was born in Kenya?". The question presumes that he was born in Kenya, or possibly was intended to trick her into saying "Yes". An objective interviewer would have asked, "Where was Obama born?". or "Were you present when Obama was born?", followed by, "Where was he born".

[CORed]

I wouldn't object to allowing naturalized citizens to be President. However, it would require a constitutional amendment, and those are difficult to pass in the US, requiring a 2/3 vote of House of Representatives and Senate, followed by ratification by 3/4 of state legislatures.

[h.g.Whiz]

He... he apparently is asking for the physical document that he can hold in his hands??? I guess we just pass it around America so everybody can touch it?

He has to be joking. Has to be. We have exactly as much proof that Obama is natural born as we had for any president. They've even got the freaking newspaper announcement from that day.

When I first heard the rumor in Oct 2008 I created this thread in order to figure out if was true or not. :confused:
The only form of proof that this thread produced was birth certificate.:boggled: Even if the birth certificate was personally delivered by President Blackface himself period wouldn't prove anything to me, because my birth certificate just so happens to be fake, as for what happen to my real one is beyond me. As for the newspaper article, your the first one in this thread to mention it. Thanks :)

[boloboffin]

When I first heard the rumor in Oct 2008 I created this thread in order to figure out if was true or not. :confused:
The only form of proof that this thread produced was birth certificate.:boggled: Even if the birth certificate was personally delivered my President Blackface himself period doesn't prove anything to me, because my birth certificate just so happens to be fake, as for what happen to my real one is beyond me. As for the newspaper article, your the first one in this thread to mention it. Thanks :)

:jaw-dropp

[David Wong]

:jaw-dropp

Yeah I think he qualifies for my ignore list with that.

[MattusMaximus]

When I first heard the rumor in Oct 2008 I created this thread in order to figure out if was true or not. :confused:
The only form of proof that this thread produced was birth certificate.:boggled: Even if the birth certificate was personally delivered by President Blackface himself period wouldn't prove anything to me, because my birth certificate just so happens to be fake, as for what happen to my real one is beyond me. As for the newspaper article, your the first one in this thread to mention it. Thanks :)

So, for the record, are you claiming that Obama is or is not a U.S. citizen? I'm having trouble telling if you're serious or if you're being sarcastic here.

[h.g.Whiz]

For the record I am claiming that Obama is a U. S. citizen.
I strive to be a round character not a flat one.

[h.g.Whiz]

Yeah I think he qualifies for my ignore list with that.

:(:covereyes:(

[Foolmewunz]

Yeah I think he qualifies for my ignore list with that.

The number of blatant racist remarks I've seen in political threads (or could be Current Events) in the last couple of days remind me not to put these people on ignore but to call them out.

Tell us, HGWhiz, do you actually think that "President Blackface" is a clever remark?

Is this some kind of open season because there's an African-American in the White House? All's fair in love, war, and politics so you can trot out not even thinly disguised racist comments?

[varwoche]

:(:covereyes:( This is all you can muster in defense of your vile, racist comment? Pathetic.

[CptColumbo]

I wonder, if the President's father had been from a European country and they were both white, would there be an issue?

[BenBurch]

When I first heard the rumor in Oct 2008 I created this thread in order to figure out if was true or not. :confused:
The only form of proof that this thread produced was birth certificate.:boggled: Even if the birth certificate was personally delivered by President Blackface himself period wouldn't prove anything to me, because my birth certificate just so happens to be fake, as for what happen to my real one is beyond me. As for the newspaper article, your the first one in this thread to mention it. Thanks :)

Stunningly racist. Stunningly ignorant of the facts. Good job! :eek:

[Dancing David]

He... he apparently is asking for the physical document that he can hold in his hands??? I guess we just pass it around America so everybody can touch it?

He has to be joking. Has to be. We have exactly as much proof that Obama is natural born as we had for any president. They've even got the freaking newspaper announcement from that day.

Well here is the silly thing:
If you request a certified copy of my wife's birth certificate , you will get a 'record of life birth' or whatever it is that is says on Obabma 'birth certificate'.

Now this is the legal document that you need to qualify for a passport, real ID or apply for Social Security.

The only person for whom it is not sufficient are those boosting the ratings of their shows by creating a false controversy.

[Darat]

Whilst this might have had some relevance to the 2008 USA Presidential elections, it is definitely one of the CT section these days.

[BenBurch]

Well here is the silly thing:
If you request a certified copy of my wife's birth certificate , you will get a 'record of life birth' or whatever it is that is says on Obabma 'birth certificate'.

Now this is the legal document that you need to qualify for a passport, real ID or apply for Social Security.

The only person for whom it is not sufficient are those boosting the ratings of their shows by creating a false controversy.

Here, they have actually destroyed all "original" copies in favor of the computerized records. I guess nobody from here ought to ever run for high office?

[Thunder]

The only person for whom it is not sufficient are those boosting the ratings of their shows by creating a false controversy.

you got that right.

[Sabrina]

I truly cannot BELIEVE people are still on about this.

The fact that it's bleeding over into the military at this point is also untenable to me. The man has been elected. The Supreme Court; the highest authority in the land when it comes to law; had long since approved both Obama and McCain to run for the highest office in the land.

HE IS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN ACCORDING TO THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE COUNTRY!

If that isn't enough for you, what is?

I also have a question; how is your birth certificate "fake" exactly? If it's a notarized copy of the original document, it is legitimate. If it simply says "Certification of live birth" (as mine does, I believe) it is legitimate. And is a fully legal document proving citizenship. So how is yours "fake" exactly?

[CptColumbo]

What happened to investigative journalism? It seems to have become: Make an outrageous statement (i.e. The President isn't a natural born citizen) and then demand it be disproven. Until then it must be true and repeated ad nauseum.

[dropzone]

What happened to investigative journalism? It seems to have become: Make an outrageous statement (i.e. The President isn't a natural born citizen) and then demand it be disproven. Until then it must be true and repeated ad nauseum.It became, "Here's his ****** birth certificate! Listen while the freakin' governor of Hawaii says it's true!"

Really, not all stories require a full-out Watergate probe.

[JoeyDonuts]

I'm fairly certain that nobody in Obama's administration is shedding a tear for the right-wing talk radio set chasing their tails over a red herring such as this.

Matter of fact, they're probably laughing at them more than normal.

[Foolmewunz]

I'm fairly certain that nobody in Obama's administration is shedding a tear for the right-wing talk radio set chasing their tails over a red herring such as this.

Matter of fact, they're probably laughing at them more than normal.

I'd go further - I think they're taunting them by ignoring the issue. The putzwits think that silence means confirmation, while it probably means that the Admin is just giving them enough rope. Let them carry on until the mid-term elections or even 2012.... then drop the proof bomb.

I mean, does anyone seriously doubt that the POTUS couldn't get the State of Hawaii to do up a nice legal document, come up with doctor's statements, etc.... ? They must be giggling in the Oval Office that they got Lou Dobbs into the fray. I mean Gordon Liddy? He'll buy anything? But if they can get Rush and Lou and O'Reilly to make idjits of themselves over a non-issue, it'll be political gold.

[Pushkin]

Well, let's see: On the one hand (A), we have people who are asking us to believe that Sandra Dunham, when she was pregnant, for God knows what reason left her residence in Hawaii and traveled to her husband's original home of Kenya (where he was not living at the time) in order to give birth there; that she or her parents also arranged to have false announcements planted in the newspapers in Honolulu at the time; that she or some unknown person or persons induced or compelled the members of the Obama family in Kenya to deny this and to propagate the lie that Barack II was born in Hawaii; that the same or other unknown persons also induced or compelled state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino of the State of Hawaii to propagate this same lie and to make the false statement in public that she had handled the original birth certificate; and that similarly unknown persons induced or compelled the State of Hawaii to issue a forged "certification of live birth," all of this without anyone who was involved in the conspiracy coming clean about it. Supporters of this cause have resorted to demonstrable misrepresentation in order to make it appear that Sarah Obama had said that her step-grandson was born in her presence in Kenya and have made other desperate and false claims about the absence of a seal on the certification of live birth and so on -- all of which, presumably, we are not supposed to regard as casting any doubt on the legitimacy of their claims.

On the other hand (B), we have people who are asking us to believe that Obama was born where his certificate of live birth, a contemporary newspaper announcement, everyone in his family, and all the officials of the State of Hawaii who are concerned in the matter say that he was born.

In other words, we have, on side A, a classic case of conspiratorial delusion, and on side B, common sense.

Your claim that both parties are equally "whacko" is, to put it mildly, unpersuasive.

Nicely done and welcome.

[Pushkin]

ahem post 60..

Are you suggesting that the birth notice in the local Hawaii newspaper announcing his birth, was actualy placed way back then as stage 1 in their plan than finaly came to fruition, when he became president?

and then post 73..
... that she or her parents also arranged to have false announcements planted in the newspapers in Honolulu at the time...
On the other hand (B), we have people who are asking us to believe that Obama was born where his certificate of live birth, a contemporary newspaper announcement, everyone in his family, and all the officials of the State of Hawaii who are concerned in the matter say that he was born...


and then in answer to post 79...
.... As for the newspaper article, your the first one in this thread to mention it. Thanks :)

please - if you are going to participate in your own thread read it first. Your apparently racist comment is by far the most offensive contribution but your inability to read and digest information and evidence that runs contrary to your position is telling.

[dudalb]

When I first heard the rumor in Oct 2008 I created this thread in order to figure out if was true or not. :confused:
The only form of proof that this thread produced was birth certificate.:boggled: Even if the birth certificate was personally delivered by President Blackface himself period wouldn't prove anything to me, because my birth certificate just so happens to be fake, as for what happen to my real one is beyond me. As for the newspaper article, your the first one in this thread to mention it. Thanks :)

Is h.g Whiz a racist, a troll trying to get a rise out of people, or just incredibly stupid? No other possibilities exist.

[Alareth]

So he has said. When was the last time he's been to church?


I've haven't been to church in more than a decade. Does that make me a muslim?

[LashL]

There is a website that collects (and corrects) the birther nonsense at obamaconspiracy.org (http://obamaconspiracy.org)

I had recently read one of Berg's lawsuits and one of Taitz's lawsuits, but I had no idea that there were so many more. At the site noted above, there is a page on the various lawsuits (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/docket/), with links to documents and such. I have not read them all, but one in particular is downright vile, and I do mean vile. (Not surprisingly, it is the one apparently filed by the Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations of Missouri).

This is utterly insane, truly.

[CurtC]

She then got the whole audience to join her in saying the pledge of allegiance.

I found it particularly creepy when the whole group launched into the Pledge.

[Safe-Keeper]

I truly cannot BELIEVE people are still on about this.Mind you, these are the same people who hated it when Michael Moore and company went on about how Bush was "selected, not elected".

[dudalb]

There is a website that collects (and corrects) the birther nonsense at obamaconspiracy.org (http://obamaconspiracy.org)

I had recently read one of Berg's lawsuits and one of Taitz's lawsuits, but I had no idea that there were so many more. At the site noted above, there is a page on the various lawsuits (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/docket/), with links to documents and such. I have not read them all, but one in particular is downright vile, and I do mean vile. (Not surprisingly, it is the one apparently filed by the Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations of Missouri).

This is utterly insane, truly.

That the Aryan Nation of Missouri lawsuit names the Missouri Department of Mental Health as a defendent is just too appropriate.
BTW the White Supremist lawsuit is listed as being sealed. What does that mean exactly?

[Hokulele]

I'd go further - I think they're taunting them by ignoring the issue. The putzwits think that silence means confirmation, while it probably means that the Admin is just giving them enough rope. Let them carry on until the mid-term elections or even 2012.... then drop the proof bomb.

I mean, does anyone seriously doubt that the POTUS couldn't get the State of Hawaii to do up a nice legal document, come up with doctor's statements, etc.... ? They must be giggling in the Oval Office that they got Lou Dobbs into the fray. I mean Gordon Liddy? He'll buy anything? But if they can get Rush and Lou and O'Reilly to make idjits of themselves over a non-issue, it'll be political gold.


And who the heck is supposedly behind this conspiracy? The governor of Hawai'i is a Republican and was a vocal supporter of McCain during the election campaign. Why didn't she expose the statewide cover-up on election day when it was clear Obama was winning?

Stupidity.

[CptColumbo]

A resolution proclaiming Hawaii Obama's birthplace passed in the House unanimously.

It would make some political sense for congressional Democrats to start pressing their Republican colleagues on the birthers. If Republicans don't reject the conspiracy theories about President Obama's birthplace outright, their opponents can use it to paint them as extremists; if they do reject them, they might have a problem with their base.

Greg Sargent reported Monday that one House Democrat, Hawaii's Neil Abercrombie, was doing just that. Abercrombie, Sargent wrote, "is going to introduce a resolution on the House floor today that seems designed to put House GOPers who are flirting with birtherism in a jam .... [The resolution] commemorates the 50th anniversary of Hawaii’s statehood. But here’s the rub, his spokesman tells me: It describes Hawaii as Barack Obama’s birthplace."

The resolution wasn't really intended to jam up the House Republicans, or to rebuke the birthers, though. (The implied slam at the birthers was a side benefit, but not the primary purpose by any means.) Besides, the resolution was actually introduced last month -- it just happened to be brought to the floor on Monday.

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/27/hawaii_resolution/index.html

It will be hard for the members of congress who voted for the resolution, and who don't want to alienate the "Bwithers," to deny that they believe the President wasn't born in Hawaii.

This was well timed.

BTW I don't live in Rep. Michelle Bachman's district.

[ktesibios]

That the Aryan Nation of Missouri lawsuit names the Missouri Department of Mental Health as a defendent is just too appropriate.
BTW the White Supremist lawsuit is listed as being sealed. What does that mean exactly?

It means that the stench was so bad that it had to be removed from the courthouse by a HAZMAT team.

[Brainster]

A resolution proclaiming Hawaii Obama's birthplace passed in the House unanimously.



http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/07/27/hawaii_resolution/index.html

It will be hard for the members of congress who voted for the resolution, and who don't want to alienate the "Bwithers," to deny that they believe the President wasn't born in Hawaii.

This was well timed.

BTW I don't live in Rep. Michelle Bachman's district.

It's well-timed for the GOP actually. They dodge the bullet of being associated with the Birthers. There are always crazy people pushing crazy theories; the key is not letting your party get associated with them. I give the Democrats credit; the only real 9-11 Troofer they had was McKinney and the Democratic Party actually voted her out of office twice. You can argue Dean (I thought his statement on Diane Rehm was loathsome, but he didn't repeat it).

The GOP goes on the record as thinking the Obama "Birther" theories are invalid. That's not only a good thing for the Republicans but for the country.

[Hokulele]

The GOP goes on the record as thinking the Obama "Birther" theories are invalid. That's not only a good thing for the Republicans but for the country.


Sadly, it will have no effect on the froot loops still pushing this, much like the official attempts from within our state.

http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

This is the second time Dr. Fukino and Gov. Lingle have officially gone on record over this.

[Arus808]

Love how they demand to see the "birth certificate" and if and when its produced, these same nutbars are going to claim its fake.

A STATE run by an REPUBLICAN Governor (who supported McCain) vouches for the BC and they wont TAKE the word of Hawaii's governor.


Tired of the idiots, SINCE they are basically claiming that EVERY signle Hawaii Resident is not a CITIZEN of the US, simply because Hawaii only issues SHORT form certificates

[Juniversal]

Love how they demand to see the "birth certificate" and if and when its produced, these same nutbars are going to claim its fake.Indeed. If as some birthers cry, Obama waved his birth certificate in everybody's face in a press conferance to quell concern for his citizenship, birthers would still dismiss it as being fake or complain that it's not the original. That wont be satisfied and always find something inadequate in the explanation (same tactic truthers or other conspiracist use).

A copy of his certificate is shown?? They say it's fake and ask "why his aunt say's she saw him born in Kenya" or why he has lawyers blocking it's release lol. In there eyes those questions (which are mostly falsehoods) are enough reason to ignore the facts and to continue to embrace the conspiracy. They simply wont be satisfied with any answer.

[SezMe]

Is h.g Whiz a racist, a troll trying to get a rise out of people, or just incredibly stupid? No other possibilities exist.
I can think of another possibility. Whiz is a racist and a troll and incredibly stupid. Simultaneously.

...and other permutations that don't matter.

[fullflavormenthol]

Yes he is a natural born citizen. Either that or I myself am not; given that I have the exact same amount of proof. I really doubt INS will deport me for saying that I only have COLB.

[Monketey Ghost]

The number of blatant racist remarks I've seen in political threads (or could be Current Events) in the last couple of days remind me not to put these people on ignore but to call them out.

Tell us, HGWhiz, do you actually think that "President Blackface" is a clever remark?

Is this some kind of open season because there's an African-American in the White House? All's fair in love, war, and politics so you can trot out not even thinly disguised racist comments?

Dude, HGW, what the ****?

What the ****?????

[h.g.Whiz]

I am not a racist, incredibly stupid maybe as for troll, I don't know what the heck a troll is.

[drkitten]

I am not a racist, incredibly stupid maybe as for troll, I don't know what the heck a troll is.

So I guess we can add "liar" to the list of things you are as well.

[MattusMaximus]

I truly cannot BELIEVE people are still on about this.

The fact that it's bleeding over into the military at this point is also untenable to me. The man has been elected. The Supreme Court; the highest authority in the land when it comes to law; had long since approved both Obama and McCain to run for the highest office in the land.

HE IS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN ACCORDING TO THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE COUNTRY!

If that isn't enough for you, what is?

I also have a question; how is your birth certificate "fake" exactly? If it's a notarized copy of the original document, it is legitimate. If it simply says "Certification of live birth" (as mine does, I believe) it is legitimate. And is a fully legal document proving citizenship. So how is yours "fake" exactly?

In their cognitive dissonance the birthers have come to an extraordinary conclusion... even the SCOTUS is "in on it" and the federal government should therefore not be trusted at all.

Unless, of course, they (the birthers) are the ones in charge of the federal government ;)

[MattusMaximus]

Indeed. If as some birthers cry, Obama waved his birth certificate in everybody's face in a press conferance to quell concern for his citizenship, birthers would still dismiss it as being fake or complain that it's not the original. That wont be satisfied and always find something inadequate in the explanation (same tactic truthers or other conspiracist use).

A copy of his certificate is shown?? They say it's fake and ask "why his aunt say's she saw him born in Kenya" or why he has lawyers blocking it's release lol. In there eyes those questions (which are mostly falsehoods) are enough reason to ignore the facts and to continue to embrace the conspiracy. They simply wont be satisfied with any answer.

Exactly this sort of thing happened when last Friday MSNBC's Chris Matthews challenged G. Gordon Liddy on his birther claims...

E6ilvPTW3lE

Wow, monuments could be built to Liddy's moving of the goalposts & special pleading... :rolleyes:

[BenBurch]

If he were not black, this would not be an issue.

[varwoche]

I am not a racist, incredibly stupid maybe as for troll, I don't know what the heck a troll is. Given that this is a skeptical forum, I'm guessing that readers are going to assign more weight to your vile, racist post than to your empty denial.

[Random]

There is a website that collects (and corrects) the birther nonsense at obamaconspiracy.org (http://obamaconspiracy.org)

I had recently read one of Berg's lawsuits and one of Taitz's lawsuits, but I had no idea that there were so many more. At the site noted above, there is a page on the various lawsuits (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/docket/), with links to documents and such. I have not read them all, but one in particular is downright vile, and I do mean vile. (Not surprisingly, it is the one apparently filed by the Church of Jesus Christ Christian/Aryan Nations of Missouri).

This is utterly insane, truly.

I looked up the case that you mentioned. I didn't get very far through it. Don't think I ever really realized how messed up those hard-core racists are. "Seedlines"? Bible quotes as legal arguments? Outright declaring Obama ineligible for the presidency based on his race? Combine that with the incredibly offensive language and bizzare legal theories and then actually try to submit that garbage to a court of law?

Those loonies scare the bejeebus out of me.

[Kritikos]

According to a poll made by Research 2000, only 77% of the population accepts that Obama was born in the US; 23% either believes the contrary or professes to be unsure. The good news is that if you don't live in the South, where the figures are respectively 47% and 53%, then you can assume that not much more than 10% of your neighbors are doubters or deniers. If you do live in the South, too bad for you.

Copied from the report at Politico.com (I've made some typographical alterations for clarity; this site will not let me post the URL):

Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 7/27-30. All adults. MoE 2% (No trend lines)

Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Yes 77
No 11
Not sure 12

By party (yes / no / not sure):
Dem: 93 / 4 / 3
Rep: 42 / 28 / 30
Ind: 83 / 8 / 9

By region (yes / no / not sure):
Northeast: 93 / 4 / 3
Midwest: 90 / 6 / 4
West: 87 / 7 / 6
South: 47 / 23 / 30

By age (yes / no / not sure):
18-29: 88 / 4 / 8
30-44: 72 / 14 / 14
45-59: 82 / 8 / 10
60+: 69 / 17 / 14

[Klimax]

According to a poll made by Research 2000, only 77% of the population accepts that Obama was born in the US; 23% either believes the contrary or professes to be unsure. The good news is that if you don't live in the South, where the figures are respectively 47% and 53%, then you can assume that not much more than 10% of your neighbors are doubters or deniers. If you do live in the South, too bad for you.

Copied from the report at Politico.com (I've made some typographical alterations for clarity; this site will not let me post the URL):

Research 2000 for Daily Kos. 7/27-30. All adults. MoE 2% (No trend lines)

Do you believe that Barack Obama was born in the United States of America or not?

Yes 77
No 11
Not sure 12

By party (yes / no / not sure):
Dem: 93 / 4 / 3
Rep: 42 / 28 / 30
Ind: 83 / 8 / 9

By region (yes / no / not sure):
Northeast: 93 / 4 / 3
Midwest: 90 / 6 / 4
West: 87 / 7 / 6
South: 47 / 23 / 30

By age (yes / no / not sure):
18-29: 88 / 4 / 8
30-44: 72 / 14 / 14
45-59: 82 / 8 / 10
60+: 69 / 17 / 14

As for links,you can put instead of dots space,so system won't recognise link.(Until you get 15 posts I think and there are different ways to "mask" links)

Unfortunately I cannot find that article,since I would like to know number of polled and if possible criterions for their selection.

From experience in my country,selection can make huge difference and is often "corrected/changed" depending on who is paying for poll.
(So different poll-companies have often huge differencies and rarely are close to reality)

[Kritikos]

As for links,you can put instead of dots space,so system won't recognise link.(Until you get 15 posts I think and there are different ways to "mask" links)

Unfortunately I cannot find that article,since I would like to know number of polled and if possible criterions for their selection.
This will be my fifteenth post, so after I make it I will try to edit it and insert the link.

Okay, here's the link:

Politico.com (http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.ht ml?showall)

[Klimax]

This will be my fifteenth post, so after I make it I will try to edit it and insert the link.

Okay, here's the link:

Politico.com (http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0709/58_of_GOP_not_suredont_beleive_Obama_born_in_US.ht ml?showall)

Thanks.No wonder I couldn't find it.

Hm.No link,no methodology,no detail. As some commenters there noted,Daily Kos is not exactly trustworthy...

Lets see other polls(possibly bigger and known methodology),then assume something.

My 0.02€.

[Dr Adequate]

Hm.No link,no methodology,no detail. I've started a thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4961778#post4961778) on this.

The methodology is given here (http://www.dailykos.com/statepoll/2009/7/30/US/320):

Methodology

DKOS WEEKLY NATIONAL POLL 2009

The Daily Kos weekly National Poll was conducted by Research 2000 July 27 through July 30, 2009. A total of 2400 adults nationally were interviewed by telephone. A cross-section of calls was made into each state in the country in order to reflect the adult population nationally.

The margin for error, according to standards customarily used by statisticians, is no more than plus or minus 2% percentage points. This means that there is a 95 percent probability that the "true" figure would fall within that range if the entire adult population were sampled. The margin for error is higher for any demographic subgroup, such as gender, race, or region.

[Klimax]

Reply in the other thread!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4962621#post4962621