You will gnash your teeth in hell, if Obama wins!

[Iamme]

Consider yourselves warned people! This is your final warning. The day of reckoning is upon us.

Obama came out of knowwhere. Don't you know deep down that something is awfully strange going on that he, and not some black governor of more experience, or whatever, got to run for Prez? That he was shored up by shady characters? That he is Marxist by books he has read, and his overall philosophies? That he is power hungry and is looking to become the savior of the downtrodden black of Chicago...and the world? That he wants to become world king? The Messiah to sit down and talk to the wolves (terrorists, regimes, etc.), as a sheep?...aka once again a "savior"? That he will, when given the chance, nominate liberal supreme court justices who will rule(determine) that the constitutional right to bear arms WAS meant for just militias! And because the senate and congress are run by dems, they will approve his choices. And since 2/3 of the 3 branches of gov't(checks and balances of the US gov't.) will then approve whatever Barack suggests, but Barack suggests, he will get? And guns will be confiscated and you will be ordered to get gov't mandated health care and he will mandate rich giving their money to the poor (blacks), so he can go down in history as their "savior"? And even though people have never learned there is no such thing as a "free lunch", they will vote for Obama anyway?

Consider yourselves warned, people. The day of reckoning is nigh!!!! I have told you so. See you in hell!

[Iamme]

This was supposed to go in the Presidential election sub-forum!!!!!!!

[ImaginalDisc]

Teeth will be provided, because Obama will make Hell communist?

[fls]

This was supposed to go in the Presidential election sub-forum!!!!!!!

Actually, I thought parody was supposed to go into the humour forum.

Linda

[Wowbagger]

Well, I am probably going to end up gnashing my teeth in Hell, anyway, no matter who wins.

[plumjam]

If it was really hell then it wouldn't be your own teeth you'd be gnashing. Much more likely to be the falsies of a recently deceased 93 year old male victim of acute gingivitis.

[Crowlogic]

Consider yourselves warned people! This is your final warning. The day of reckoning is upon us.

Obama came out of knowwhere. Don't you know deep down that something is awfully strange going on that he, and not some black governor of more experience, or whatever, got to run for Prez? That he was shored up by shady characters? That he is Marxist by books he has read, and his overall philosophies? That he is power hungry and is looking to become the savior of the downtrodden black of Chicago...and the world? That he wants to become world king? The Messiah to sit down and talk to the wolves (terrorists, regimes, etc.), as a sheep?...aka once again a "savior"? That he will, when given the chance, nominate liberal supreme court justices who will rule(determine) that the constitutional right to bear arms WAS meant for just militias! And because the senate and congress are run by dems, they will approve his choices. And since 2/3 of the 3 branches of gov't(checks and balances of the US gov't.) will then approve whatever Barack suggests, but Barack suggests, he will get? And guns will be confiscated and you will be ordered to get gov't mandated health care and he will mandate rich giving their money to the poor (blacks), so he can go down in history as their "savior"? And even though people have never learned there is no such thing as a "free lunch", they will vote for Obama anyway?

Consider yourselves warned, people. The day of reckoning is nigh!!!! I have told you so. See you in hell!

Shucks Iamme like a lot of us haven't been gnashing our teeth in the Neocon Hell of the past 8 years? Before you spout off about what this as yet not elected candidate will get in office lets keep in sight that our current president (you know the frat boy) was given virtually everything he wanted. Yes indeedy frat boy got everything and look at where we are now. It seems to me at least that your thread is trying to portray Obama as some sort of Antichrist. Hmmm the Antichrist of color, interesting concept but no less ignorant of an idea.

In case you haven't noticed, and it seems you haven't noticed, that "we the people" have pretty much ended up on the rocks after being lead to those rocks by the"Capitalist Manifesto" that King Ronald decreed. Good Old Karl Marx is looking pretty good right now.

I'm sorry if you feel threatened by Mr Obama. I'm sorry that you seem to be a gun toating racist. Perhaps you might want to pass my response to your ignorance along to Pastor Hagey. I'm sure he can use it as ammunition to try and shore up the crumbling Neocon cause.

I'm not afraid of the likes of you and you're ilk. Gnashing our teeth in Hell you say? I'm not afraid of gnashing my teeth in Hell either. Yet I am afraid of the fate our country is rushing towards at full throttle. The world is going to be knocking at our door and point the finger at the failure of our economy and the effect its having on the entire planet. I suppose its worth mentioning that we (white folks) are in the minority in the global community and that we're going to need a leader that doesn't blantly broadcast that America was set up by white guys for white guys and white guys are responsible for the mess we've made.

The game has changed. Wake up!

[Iamme]

Actually, I thought parody was supposed to go into the humour forum.

Linda

Parody:? Ha. I wonder if you can still LAUGH in hell?

[Ziggurat]

Consider yourselves warned people! This is your final warning. The day of reckoning is upon us.

I'm no fan of Obama. I think he's a typical corrupt Chicago politician. But that there was an insane and racist rant.

[GreyICE]

I'm going with parody, possibly unintentional.

[Iamme]

Before you spout off about what this as yet not elected candidate will get in office ....

You just did a pretty good job of spouting off yourself.

Of course we all know that this is a forum of debate and obviously I knew many of you, in a liberal based messageboard, would not be sharing my view, naturally. I am intrigued by reading views such as yours.

Yes, agreed that some of this unchecked capitalism has got us to where we are. Unbridled capitalism that can run wild, would have it, in theory, that one world corporation (like a mega-Walmart, or Exxon-Mobil, would control everything, and become the king, - and all workers, the peasants, with no one else to work for, would have to work for cheap, as no competition.

There is a happy medium between pure capitalism and pure Marxism or communism. We must have had that after World War II, up through the early 70's. Then things started going south around the oil embargo days, gradually ...but then the graph started to really take a climb like an inverted square law chart. Especially during the Bush regime where debt sored from about 5 trillion to over 10 trillion

But I welcome more opinions like yours as I get to see how everyone feels, and or if many of you are against me simply for the sake of being against me.

[Iamme]

I'm no fan of Obama. I think he's a typical corrupt Chicago politician. But that there was an insane and racist rant.

Give me a break with this racist rant
Nope. Not enough asterisks.
(I knew enough to asterisk it myself. Ha.) Nope. What a friggin cop out!!! If a black governor of 2 terms got in? -no problem here, on my end. Palin? I think SHE is a stooge! And she is now a weight around McCains' neck.Girls trick or treating are going to go as Palin! For sure he (McCain) should have picked always smooth and sincere and good morals - Mike Huckabee - who now is on Fox News and is very likeable and intelligent sounding.

[Giggywig]

Iamme: Maybe it's time for you to stock up on canned food and bottled water and hide in a bunker. With no internet access.

[Iamme]

If it was really hell then it wouldn't be your own teeth you'd be gnashing. Much more likely to be the falsies of a recently deceased 93 year old male victim of acute gingivitis.

I don't enough teeth to gnash anymore, nor enough hair to pull out anymore either. :hypnotize

[Iamme]

Iamme: Maybe it's time for you to stock up on canned food and bottled water and hide in a bunker. With no internet access.

Back in the early 60's my family came close to doing just that, as we almost bought a house with a bomb shelter buried deep out in the front yard with the vent hiding in the bushes.

[Giggywig]

Back in the early 60's my family came close to doing just that, as we almost bought a house with a bomb shelter buried deep out in the front yard with the vent hiding in the bushes.

Maybe it's still available. Just make sure the poor (blacks) can't get in.

[Iamme]

Well, I am probably going to end up gnashing my teeth in Hell, anyway, no matter who wins.

It's either that or sitting, with wings on, on an endless number of church pews (like religious tracts show, that were put out by that one religious PH.D., who is famous, who believed that the Big Bang was bogus).What the heck is his name?!)) facing the 'bright light', singing praises, for trillions of years, with no beer and no golf courses and no strip tease joints.

......................

It came to me: Dr. Dwayne? Gish

[Iamme]

Maybe it's still available. Just make sure the poor (blacks) can't get in.

Nah. No way that could happen as they'd be oblivious, sitting at the Rib Crib, eating ribs, chicken and watermellon. That is how it was in the town I grew up in the 60's. LOL. Now now now, please do not come after me for that. I just could not help it. (Wasn't it Fuzzy Zoeller who made some remark like that about Tiger Woods?) Oh. They also lived 8 in a house and shared one Cadillac and fought over who got it on Saturday night. So my parents told me. And you know how it is when you are a kid - you believe what your parents tell you.

[Giggywig]

Nah. No way that could happen as they'd be oblivious, sitting at the Rib Crib, eating ribs, chicken and watermellon. That is how it was in the town I grew up in the 60's. LOL. Now now now, please do not come after me for that. I just could not help it. (Wasn't it Fuzzy Zoeller who made some remark like that about Tiger Woods?) Oh. They also lived 8 in a house and shared one Cadillac and fought over who got it on Saturday night. So my parents told me. And you know how it is when you are a kid - you believe what your parents tell you.

O.........k..........

I'm out of here.

[Axiom_Blade]

Prediction: Obama will be better than Bush (not hard!), but worse than Clinton.
Oh, yes. The times call for it. It actually sounds now like he's more of a hawk than McCain is, so get ready for more wars.
I saw the last presidential debate, and it's really hard to pick the lesser of the two evils now. There's something to like and something to dislike about both of them. If I were voting for the duopoly this year, I'd really have a hard time choosing.

Give me a break with this racist rant s***!!!!! (I knew enough to asterisk it myself. Ha.) Nope. What a friggin cop out!!!

Iamme, don't you know you're a racist just for criticizing Obama?

Palin? I think SHE is a stooge!

Larry, Moe, or Curly?

Of course we all know that this is a forum of debate and obviously I knew many of you, in a liberal based messageboard, would not be sharing my view, naturally. I am intrigued by reading views such as yours.

Ha-ha, yah, we're just tripping over liberals around here! Are all you liberals voting for that Marxist?
Can't you see how Obama's sock color makes him far superior to McCain?

We'll have progressive, forward-thinking invasions now, not those clumsy, caveman invasions we had with Bush.

[Ziggurat]

Good Old Karl Marx is looking pretty good right now.

Uh, no, no he isn't (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1737780,00.html). And that's got nothing to do with the relative merits or demerits of any American president or presidential candidate.

[Foster Zygote]

I never thought that anything could make me miss Iamme's creepy posts about his unrequited love.

[Ziggurat]

Give me a break with this racist rant s***!!!!! (I knew enough to asterisk it myself. Ha.) Nope. What a friggin cop out!!! If a black governor of 2 terms got in? -no problem here,

Then why did you even bring up race? You're accusing Obama of preferring one race, the only grounds for which seems to be that he belongs to that race.

[Foster Zygote]

Palin? I think SHE is a stooge!

Dr. Howard! Dr. Palin! Dr. Howard!

[Beerina]

Oh no.

Government nationalization of health care (even though Obama's is the mildest "takeover" of any Democrat since it became an issue -- and milder than some Republican appeasers, I might add.)

Oh no.

Take all the guns away. Even though the Supreme Court has been ruling in the opposite direction recently.

On no.

He's power hungry. Well, that applies to every single politician. Analysis of the political process by presuming they're all power hungry and ignoring the content of their streams of words that manipulate the masses is a much more fruitful way to predict their activities. Surprise! :rolleyes

Oh no.

He'll appoint liberals to the Supreme Court. Well, this is an issue. I guess the Repulicans shouldn't have appointed some guy who, like Bob Dole, was next old man in line to be issued his chance. This election is an excellent example of the old saying that Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line. In any case it needs 60 in the senate, and that could be a problem.

But based on McCaine's record -- loves big spending, big government, and government regulation of political speech (George Will points out, correctly, that it includes all of the timing, quantity, and content =o ) not to mention abortion, I wouldn't be too sure he'd not appoint another Souter or some such.


Et al. Ad nauseum.

[plumjam]

I don't enough teeth to gnash anymore, nor enough hair to pull out anymore either. :hypnotize

Iamme, my love,.. you just completely destroyed my love life :(

[Nogbad]

Consider yourselves warned people! This is your final warning. The day of reckoning is upon us.

Obama came out of knowwhere. Don't you know deep down that something is awfully strange going on that he, and not some black governor of more experience, or whatever, got to run for Prez? That he was shored up by shady characters? That he is Marxist by books he has read, and his overall philosophies? That he is power hungry and is looking to become the savior of the downtrodden black of Chicago...and the world? That he wants to become world king? The Messiah to sit down and talk to the wolves (terrorists, regimes, etc.), as a sheep?...aka once again a "savior"? That he will, when given the chance, nominate liberal supreme court justices who will rule(determine) that the constitutional right to bear arms WAS meant for just militias! And because the senate and congress are run by dems, they will approve his choices. And since 2/3 of the 3 branches of gov't(checks and balances of the US gov't.) will then approve whatever Barack suggests, but Barack suggests, he will get? And guns will be confiscated and you will be ordered to get gov't mandated health care and he will mandate rich giving their money to the poor (blacks), so he can go down in history as their "savior"? And even though people have never learned there is no such thing as a "free lunch", they will vote for Obama anyway?

Consider yourselves warned, people. The day of reckoning is nigh!!!! I have told you so. See you in hell!

But other than that Obama is quite nice non?

[KingMerv00]

For what it is worth, I don't think Iamme is racist.

[Crowlogic]

You just did a pretty good job of spouting off yourself.

Of course we all know that this is a forum of debate and obviously I knew many of you, in a liberal based messageboard, would not be sharing my view, naturally. I am intrigued by reading views such as yours.

Yes, agreed that some of this unchecked capitalism has got us to where we are. Unbridled capitalism that can run wild, would have it, in theory, that one world corporation (like a mega-Walmart, or Exxon-Mobil, would control everything, and become the king, - and all workers, the peasants, with no one else to work for, would have to work for cheap, as no competition.

There is a happy medium between pure capitalism and pure Marxism or communism. We must have had that after World War II, up through the early 70's. Then things started going south around the oil embargo days, gradually ...but then the graph started to really take a climb like an inverted square law chart. Especially during the Bush regime where debt sored from about 5 trillion to over 10 trillion

But I welcome more opinions like yours as I get to see how everyone feels, and or if many of you are against me simply for the sake of being against me.

I'm not against you for the sake of being against you. I'm against you or rather your line of thinking for my sake and the sake of overwhelming numbers of folks that are against your line of thinking too. But you seem to have moderated your rant from this morning. Now you say things started to go south in the 70's. Well please take notice that with the end of the Johnson era and Great Society program we've been well on the way towards dismanteling the New Deal. Yes the New Deal is dead. Ragen loaded the gun, Bush 1 cocked the hammer, Clinton drew aim and Bush 2 pulled the trigger.

That said I noticed that McCain and the bimbo were really spewing the venom today in your state.

[Iamme]

Then why did you even bring up race? You're accusing Obama of preferring one race, the only grounds for which seems to be that he belongs to that race.

Remember that saying about a duck? The quack, the walk, etc? Well, it goes something like this - Obama looks in the mirror and goes - Hmmm, I'm a ...................................
























....duck!

No, seriously, you have got to be kidding me right? You think Barack jumped on the to-be -President train to help the downtrodden...white folks? You think that is what those 20 years in Jeremiah's church taught Obama he should do? You can't be serious.

[Iamme]

Dr. Howard! Dr. Palin! Dr. Howard!


Ha! Ya. I saw that episode. They shot that PA system to death and it kept repeating it up til the PA finally died on the floor.

And ya, Palin. I can see why McCain maybe chose her. But couldn't he see Saturday Night Live coming? And what's with those 1960's glasses she wears and her hair back behind her ears? Is she afraid she will look toio valuptous and that is not very vice-Presidential looking? You know, the old cliche how the raggy librarian takes off her horn rim glasses and lets down her hair and becomes this babe? The only thing that be worse about Palin is if she said "Eh?", every other word. But she is pretty close to that with her folksyness.

[Safe-Keeper]

Obama came out of knowwhere.No, I don't knowwhere. Please tell.

Don't you know deep down that something is awfully strange going on that he, and not some black governor of more experience, or whatever, got to run for Prez?Lemme guess, he's the stooge of the NWO:D.

No, seriously, you have got to be kidding me right? You think Barack jumped on the to-be -President train to help the downtrodden...white folks?
Of course not. I know them stinking Negroes and their churches. Care naught about anyone but themselves and their quest to rule the world, they do:rolleyes:.

[Iamme]

That said I noticed that McCain and the bimbo were really spewing the venom today in your state.

I wonder how many stops he made? I caught on the news he was at the LaCrosse Center, which is sort of our sister city to our south. Both are University of Wisconsin towns of nearly the same population.

Do you remember what some of the venom was?

I heard on Michael Medved today that Obama is promoting (possibly to mandate) something to do with 'National Service', to require everyone to serve our country. No joke. Just wait people and you will see what he has in store for us!

But Medved thought it not be wise for McCain to label Obama as a socialist. But to simply say he wants big gov't.

[Iamme]

No, I don't knowwhere. Please tell.

How CAN I? That was my question to YOU folks.

Lemme guess, he's the stooge of the NWO:D.

Don't laugh. After he schmoozes with leaders of N.Korea, Iran, and Venezuela, to name some places, the NWO may make him President of it. Scary. It almost sounds (Biblical)apocalyptic.


Of course not. I know them stinking Negroes and their churches. Care naught about anyone but themselves and their quest to rule the world, they do:rolleyes:.

Now you are just being silly. You know they, without Obama, simply would have settled for the whites giving them stuff like the whites gave the Indians. :biggrin:

[plumjam]

For what it is worth, I don't think Iamme is racist.
Merv, I agree with you. Very decent of you to say so too.

[Nyarlathotep]

Good Old Karl Marx is looking pretty good right now.

Considering how long he has been dead, my guess is he is looking pretty badly decomposed right now. Though by all accounts Lenin is still in pretty good shape.

[KingMerv00]

Merv, I agree with you. Very decent of you to say so too.

For what it is worth, I also think he is overreacting.

[Crowlogic]

I wonder how many stops he made? I caught on the news he was at the LaCrosse Center, which is sort of our sister city to our south. Both are University of Wisconsin towns of nearly the same population.

I heard on Michael Medved today that Obama is promoting (possibly to mandate) something to do with 'National Service', to require everyone to serve our country. No joke. Just wait people and you will see what he has in store for us!

But Medved thought it not be wise for McCain to label Obama as a socialist. But to simply say he wants big gov't.

National service wow what a concept! Maybe national service will get some of our overweight couch potato kids and adults up off thier duff and away from the computer and TV screens. You know I saw a little film shot in 1938 of a small town community picnic along the Deleware River. Damn the kids of 1938 were fast lean and anything but the lard assed loads we see ever more often today. Maybe Obama will also do something about the crap we're feeding our kids. It might do the little darlings some good to eat something other than slat, fat and sugar and color dyes.

Big Government, I'm all for it. I spent a little time in Stockholm not too long ago. Yup its in one of those evil socialist countries with big government. Taxes are sky high but virtually everyone I spoke to was pretty happy with the services that big government was providing. Part of the capitialist lie is that all socialism is bad. Well socialism undermines capitalism but democratic socialism pretty much beats hands down the capitalist treadmill we find ourselves. Just remember that its big government that's coming to the rescue of latest crop of Wall Street robber barons. If it was up to me I'd let the SOB's swing in the breeze.

[GreyICE]

No, seriously, you have got to be kidding me right? You think Barack jumped on the to-be -President train to help the downtrodden...white folks? You think that is what those 20 years in Jeremiah's church taught Obama he should do? You can't be serious.

Here's a radical concept. He wants to help people. Period. See that period? It means the sentence is over. No qualifiers were included.

[Iamme]

National service wow what a concept! Maybe national service will get some of our overweight couch potato kids and adults up off thier duff and away from the computer and TV screens. You know I saw a little film shot in 1938 of a small town community picnic along the Deleware River. Damn the kids of 1938 were fast lean and anything but the lard assed loads we see ever more often today. Maybe Obama will also do something about the crap we're feeding our kids. It might do the little darlings some good to eat something other than slat, fat and sugar and color dyes.

Big Government, I'm all for it. I spent a little time in Stockholm not too long ago. Yup its in one of those evil socialist countries with big government. Taxes are sky high but virtually everyone I spoke to was pretty happy with the services that big government was providing. Part of the capitialist lie is that all socialism is bad. Well socialism undermines capitalism but democratic socialism pretty much beats hands down the capitalist treadmill we find ourselves. Just remember that its big government that's coming to the rescue of latest crop of Wall Street robber barons. If it was up to me I'd let the SOB's swing in the breeze.

You are scaring me. I hope not too many people are on your side. I find it bad enough gov't is ordering people to no longer smoke in places. It will get more and more of this. Naturally we all know that living healthy lives is best for our health and productivity. But do we want gov't mandating our lives so that we can become highly productive wards of the state who have to salute some gov't image every morning? It may come to this. And those who work for the gov't itself will be giving themselves huge perks while they whip the peon into submission. They will demand top scientists work for the gov't military. All that type stuff. You give the gov't an inch and they are going to end up taking a mile. Anjd it's coming. Because with more and more people, they will determine that this will be in the best interest of everyone.

Give me back the good old days when I could smoke where I wanted, burn leaves when I wanted, say prayer in school if we wanted, drive a polluting car when I wanted without the fear of mandated public transportation (which I'm sure will be coming with the conjestion), and die when I deem fit according to my choice of lifestyle, etc.

[Iamme]

Here's a radical concept. He wants to help people. Period. See that period? It means the sentence is over. No qualifiers were included.

But it is with socialism, not freedom. He will be taking away our freedom. Are some of you people blind to this and what his ambitions are all about? What is going to fund his pie in the sky ambiitions? You need small businesses in this country, along with prospering corporations, that can grow and thrive and not pay big taxes so they can employ more people and let capitalism work for us. You can't have gov't hand-out programs. The money has to come from somewhere. You can't steal from the rich. This type of system does not work.

[dudalb]

National service wow what a concept! Maybe national service will get some of our overweight couch potato kids and adults up off thier duff and away from the computer and TV screens. You know I saw a little film shot in 1938 of a small town community picnic along the Deleware River. Damn the kids of 1938 were fast lean and anything but the lard assed loads we see ever more often today. Maybe Obama will also do something about the crap we're feeding our kids. It might do the little darlings some good to eat something other than slat, fat and sugar and color dyes.

Big Government, I'm all for it. I spent a little time in Stockholm not too long ago. Yup its in one of those evil socialist countries with big government. Taxes are sky high but virtually everyone I spoke to was pretty happy with the services that big government was providing. Part of the capitialist lie is that all socialism is bad. Well socialism undermines capitalism but democratic socialism pretty much beats hands down the capitalist treadmill we find ourselves. Just remember that its big government that's coming to the rescue of latest crop of Wall Street robber barons. If it was up to me I'd let the SOB's swing in the breeze.


You sort of blew your creditbility with your Karl Marx is looking good comment.

One year from now, you will be yelling how Obama has sold you out, since I doubt turning the US into a Euro style socialist state is on his agenda.
Americans will not accept a Euro level of taxation.

[gentlehorse]

Politicians-- Pfft-- But for the color of their robes, I cannot distinguish between them.

Zappa said it best: They're looking out for number one and you're not even number two.

Still, somebody's got to step up to the plate. Too bad our choices are limited to those who actually want the job. Were it up to me, I force Stimpy to run the show for a few years. He'd hate it, but I think he'd probably make some brilliant decisions.

Feeling disillusioned...

At least we're getting rid of George.

[Tony]

But it is with socialism, not freedom.

You seem to lack an understanding of both concepts. In your view, what is freedom? What is socialism? How is what you think of as socialism a threat to freedom? When has Obama advocated socialism?

[SezMe]

I heard on Michael Medved today that Obama is promoting (possibly to mandate) something to do with 'National Service', to require everyone to serve our country. No joke. Just wait people and you will see what he has in store for us!

But Medved thought it not be wise for McCain to label Obama as a socialist. But to simply say he wants big gov't.
Thanks for helping us identify the problem, Iamme. Next time you hear something from Medved, take a big breath and say to yourself, "Well, that's probably a big load of horsepocky. I'd better check with my JREF friends."

Then post here and get some sane feedback. That's the "E" in JREF. With that feedback, you'll be able to form sound judgments, not judgments based on pure sound.

In this case, Obama has not "mandated" National Service or suggested anything like it. That is just feverous delusions on Medved's part. You'd be wise to avoid catching his disease.

[SezMe]

Hey, Tony, did you send $10 to JREF per our bet?

[SezMe]

But it is with socialism, not freedom. He will be taking away our freedom. Are some of you people blind to this and what his ambitions are all about? What is going to fund his pie in the sky ambiitions? You need small businesses in this country, along with prospering corporations, that can grow and thrive and not pay big taxes so they can employ more people and let capitalism work for us. You can't have gov't hand-out programs. The money has to come from somewhere. You can't steal from the rich. This type of system does not work.
There is so much wrong here it is difficult to know where to start. But after you answer Tony's questions, also list those freedoms that Obama will be taking away.

The notion that reducing taxes on corporations will lead them to employ more people is rubbish. A company - at least in theory - will employ people to the extent that their costs of employment are less than the income they generate. The way to induce a company to hire more people is to increase demand for their product. The way to increase demand is to give people more purchasing power. The way to increase purchasing power of people is to reduce their individual taxes. Which is what Obama is proposing.

Yes, you cannot have government hand-out programs. Like corporate welfare such as privatising profits and socializing risks, which is what the Republicans and Bush/McCain policy is.

[brodski]

Politicians-- Pfft-- But for the color of their robes, I cannot distinguish between them.

Zappa said it best: They're looking out for number one and you're not even number two.

Still, somebody's got to step up to the plate. Too bad our choices are limited to those who actually want the job. Were it up to me, I force Stimpy to run the show for a few years. He'd hate it, but I think he'd probably make some brilliant decisions.

Feeling disillusioned...

At least we're getting rid of George.

If you cannot tell the difference between Politicians why is getting rid of George a good thing? You seem to be saying that whoever wins it will be someone indistinguishable from him.

[Tony]

Hey, Tony, did you send $10 to JREF per our bet?

I wasn't aware the issue had been resolved.

ETA: In preparation for the loss I am about to sustain, I just tried to find where I could donate to the JREF. Clicking on the "Donate to the JREF" link took me to a page about Joining the JREF. Is there a way I can just donate?

[GreyICE]

But it is with socialism, not freedom. He will be taking away our freedom. Are some of you people blind to this and what his ambitions are all about? What is going to fund his pie in the sky ambiitions? You need small businesses in this country, along with prospering corporations, that can grow and thrive and not pay big taxes so they can employ more people and let capitalism work for us. You can't have gov't hand-out programs. The money has to come from somewhere. You can't steal from the rich. This type of system does not work.

Well besides your silly strawmen and faith-based ideology, apparently the fact that he's not helping people the way you like... means we're all going to hell?

[jimbob]

Originally Posted by Crowlogic
Good Old Karl Marx is looking pretty good right now
Uh, no, no he isn't (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1737780,00.html). And that's got nothing to do with the relative merits or demerits of any American president or presidential candidate.

Yes and no Ziggurat.

Stalinism isn't really Marxism, which is the "no". I am not intimately familiar with Communist thought, but I am under the impression that a hereditary ruler is actually against some of the central tenets of Communism or Marxism.

However someione will have to assign the resources*, and given human nature, and organisational politics, I think that such systems are probably inherently vulnerable to takeover by people who can jocky for power, and once in power can't be removed. So in practice, it probably is how it would pan out with a communist government, even if it starts differently.

Which is the "yes".


*I am ignoring the whole question about incentives and why one would work harder if all that happens is that it gets taken away from you ("from each according to their abilities") when you would be looked after anyway ("to each according to their needs").

And the secondary question as to how the centrally controlled economy is run. You need local knowledge, so you would need to give certain individuals local autonomy, which gives them economic power, without being able t set up checks and balances, so the system would reward corruption and inneficiency.

Because I think that the main problem with North Korea isn't "Communism" but "Stalinism".

ETA:
BTW Plumjam, I nominated your post below...

If it was really hell then it wouldn't be your own teeth you'd be gnashing. Much more likely to be the falsies of a recently deceased 93 year old male victim of acute gingivitis.

[Crowlogic]

You sort of blew your creditbility with your Karl Marx is looking good comment.

One year from now, you will be yelling how Obama has sold you out, since I doubt turning the US into a Euro style socialist state is on his agenda.
Americans will not accept a Euro level of taxation.

My Marx looking good is meant to say that socialism is looking pretty good right now. Since most of the unwashed masses equate Marx with socialism a wink is as good as a nod.

Americans are going to have to accept a Euro level of taxation. Its going to happen regardless of who gets in. What do you think we're going to be paying off our creditors (of which there are many) using acorns and pine cones? So since the idiot idea of a nation living beyond its means has come back to bite us in the arse we might as well get ued to it. And BTW just how would you suppose we get around the higher taxes heading our way. We're either going to have a form of democratic socialism or a surfdom resembeling the middle ages.

So I'll restate my comment assuming that the masses have showered this morning. Socialism is looking pretty good right about now.

A year from now you think I'll bemoan Obama as having sold us out? If we get a year out of it that'll be good. But I don't need a year to know that McCain and the bimbo are ready will and and able to do the "sale" right now.

In any event Obama is going to be in the White House, I'm going to vote for him so it seems to me you are the one who needs to be worried about the man. Not me.

[Ziggurat]

So in practice, it probably is how it would pan out with a communist government, even if it starts differently.

Which is the "yes".

And that "yes" matters a whole lot more than the "no".

Because I think that the main problem with North Korea isn't "Communism" but "Stalinism".

Both of which are the offspring of Karl Marx, however little he intended the latter.

[quixotecoyote]

We're either going to have a form of democratic socialism or a surfdom resembeling the middle ages.



heh heh, I want to live in a surfdom. Sounds like a beach-bum paradise.

[Crowlogic]

But it is with socialism, not freedom. He will be taking away our freedom. Are some of you people blind to this and what his ambitions are all about? What is going to fund his pie in the sky ambiitions? You need small businesses in this country, along with prospering corporations, that can grow and thrive and not pay big taxes so they can employ more people and let capitalism work for us. You can't have gov't hand-out programs. The money has to come from somewhere. You can't steal from the rich. This type of system does not work.

What nobody seems to get is that capitalism does not work for the people. Capitalism works for the capitalists. The only thing that allowed workers to at least have a pretense towards reaping the benifits of capitalism were the unions riding shotgun for the workers. It is by no small coincidence that the guy that owns the company may be rich or stand the chance of becoming rich while the guy sweeping the company floors is poor. However when we had strong and functioning unions the guy sweeping the floor was a little less poor. Does anyone really think that Walmart would be getting away with half the stuff they do if we had a body of power that wouldn't allow them the policies they have.

[Beerina]

What nobody seems to get is that capitalism does not work for the people. Capitalism works for the capitalists. The only thing that allowed workers to at least have a pretense towards reaping the benifits of capitalism were the unions riding shotgun for the workers. It is by no small coincidence that the guy that owns the company may be rich or stand the chance of becoming rich while the guy sweeping the company floors is poor. However when we had strong and functioning unions the guy sweeping the floor was a little less poor. Does anyone really think that Walmart would be getting away with half the stuff they do if we had a body of power that wouldn't allow them the policies they have.

I'm sorry, but without capitalism, the guy sweeping the factory floor doesn't even have that.

The unions in the West are accomplishing one thing, though. They are driving massive amounts of industry to China.

In this way, they are raising the average standard of living much more than they ever did qua unions.

[varwoche]

that there was an insane and racist rant. Thanks for posting this Z. I have respect and appreciation for people who call 'em like they see 'em when contrary to political self interest.

If it wasn't an insane and racist rant then there's no such thing as insane and racist rants.

[Darth Rotor]

Prediction: Obama will be better than Bush (not hard!), but worse than Clinton.

At what?
It actually sounds now like he's more of a hawk than McCain is, so get ready for more wars.
Given that Woodrow Wilson was a Democrat, and platitude bearing Democrats like to use American military force to reshape the world, (as have some GOP sorts, eh?) he would be true to his habit, which is going along with his party's line.
I saw the last presidential debate, and it's really hard to pick the lesser of the two evils now. There's something to like and something to dislike about both of them.
Agreed.
We'll have progressive, forward-thinking invasions now, not those clumsy, caveman invasions we had with Bush.
Progressives? Uh, if you look at how the American progressive movement has waxed and waned, you might find a few links to the now dreaded neocons. It is possible that Obama will listen to the nativist vote. Hard to say. He really hasn't said much of anything. (See also politics forum post by me, Ballad of Eskimo Nell.)

DR

[plumjam]

I'm sorry, but without capitalism, the guy sweeping the factory floor doesn't even have that.


Hey, you're right!
Folks, without capitalism floors would no longer be swept.
This is genius.

[Crowlogic]

You are scaring me. I hope not too many people are on your side. I find it bad enough gov't is ordering people to no longer smoke in places. It will get more and more of this. Naturally we all know that living healthy lives is best for our health and productivity. But do we want gov't mandating our lives so that we can become highly productive wards of the state who have to salute some gov't image every morning? It may come to this. And those who work for the gov't itself will be giving themselves huge perks while they whip the peon into submission. They will demand top scientists work for the gov't military. All that type stuff. You give the gov't an inch and they are going to end up taking a mile. Anjd it's coming. Because with more and more people, they will determine that this will be in the best interest of everyone.

Give me back the good old days when I could smoke where I wanted, burn leaves when I wanted, say prayer in school if we wanted, drive a polluting car when I wanted without the fear of mandated public transportation (which I'm sure will be coming with the conjestion), and die when I deem fit according to my choice of lifestyle, etc.

I'm scaring you? Hell bells I've been frightened for the past 8 years. I have my passport up to date. If the democrates loose we're out of here. We've already secured arangements in Europe.

In any event I don't miss our unsafe polluting cars one bit. I don't miss breathing the second hand smoke when I go out dinning. Hmmm I notice that a lot of your compaints revolve around smoke and combustion. There's more to life than fire BTW. But do you miss the lies the tabbaco companies told about cigerttes? I say when industry can act responsible and consider the impact of its product and the footprint that its operation leaves on the environment and the future then industry can operate without oversight. Please if you can furnish me with a date when you think that will happen I'll pass the information along to my state representatives.

Incidently in my state we can still burn leaves. Its nice for the first 2 days then its pretty uncomfortable here in the valley. In my former more progressive state leaves were not burned we had better air and healthier people. Nobody smoked anymore either.

[leftysergeant]

Obama didn't come out of nowhere. He came out of Harvard Law School, Summa cum Laude. Bright dude in the room, just about anywhere. McCain came out of Annapolis dragging anchor and then screwed up three airplanes. (Maybe he also screwed up the last one. Not the sharpest tool in the shed as a pilot.)

Socialism? Not as scarey as unbridled capitalism. The piddle-down ecconomics that the GOP has been trying to feed us the last 28 years is just a bobsled to peonage.

Four times in our history, it has almost destroyed us as a nation.

Time fopr another New Deal-type shake-up to save us from the robber barons and capitalism from itself.

Capitalism is not neccessary to freedom, nor is freedom neccessary to capitalism. Just ask the Chileans.

[quixotecoyote]

Obama didn't come out of nowhere. He came out of Harvard Law School, Summa cum Laude. Bright dude in the room, just about anywhere. McCain came out of Annapolis dragging anchor and then screwed up three airplanes. (Maybe he also screwed up the last one. Not the sharpest tool in the shed as a pilot.)

As far I know the plane thing is false.

http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/08/26/mccain-myths.php

Not the best source, but I'd appreciate seeing one that backs the 'screwed up three airplanes' claim.

[SnuggleSmacks]

Back in the early 60's my family came close to doing just that, as we almost bought a house with a bomb shelter buried deep out in the front yard with the vent hiding in the bushes.

Thanks for sharing this. It explains a lot.

Would you please cite sources for your accusations regarding Obama? Perhaps I missed them, but I don't recall seeing a single link so that we can verify your claims.

Thanks.

[leftysergeant]

Hitting the powerline is totally his fault. The flame-outs could have been, as well. Statisticly, it is interesting that it happened to him twice.

Improper pre-flight checks and unauthorized maneuvers cause a lot of flame-outs. There are procedures to deal with a flame-out. Did he follow them?

His unsavory personality suggests that it was more likely his fault than would be the case for a more stable personality.

I spent four years on the crash crew and none of the incidents that happened around my station involved flame-outs.

It would be interesting to know how often it happens to the average pilot. Seems to me that he would have learned better to deal with flame-out after one.

[MaGZ]

Consider yourselves warned people! This is your final warning. The day of reckoning is upon us.

Obama came out of knowwhere. Don't you know deep down that something is awfully strange going on that he, and not some black governor of more experience, or whatever, got to run for Prez? That he was shored up by shady characters? That he is Marxist by books he has read, and his overall philosophies? That he is power hungry and is looking to become the savior of the downtrodden black of Chicago...and the world? That he wants to become world king? The Messiah to sit down and talk to the wolves (terrorists, regimes, etc.), as a sheep?...aka once again a "savior"? That he will, when given the chance, nominate liberal supreme court justices who will rule(determine) that the constitutional right to bear arms WAS meant for just militias! And because the senate and congress are run by dems, they will approve his choices. And since 2/3 of the 3 branches of gov't(checks and balances of the US gov't.) will then approve whatever Barack suggests, but Barack suggests, he will get? And guns will be confiscated and you will be ordered to get gov't mandated health care and he will mandate rich giving their money to the poor (blacks), so he can go down in history as their "savior"? And even though people have never learned there is no such thing as a "free lunch", they will vote for Obama anyway?

Consider yourselves warned, people. The day of reckoning is nigh!!!! I have told you so. See you in hell!

Dr. William Pierce wrote the The Turner Diaries in the mid-1970s. In the book the government rounds up gun owner and sparks a revolt. But Dr. Pierce missed a Black being elected president.

I think a Obama Presidency could trigger a similar scenario one finds in The Turner Diaries.

http://www.skrewdriver.org/turnerintro.html

[Nyarlathotep]

Dr. William Pierce wrote the The Turner Diaries in the mid-1970s. In the book the government rounds up gun owner and sparks a revolt. But Dr. Pierce missed a Black being elected president.

I think a Obama Presidency could trigger a similar scenario one finds in The Turner Diaries.

http://www.skrewdriver.org/turnerintro.html


Eeeeeeee-yeeaaaaaah.

Sadly, an Obama Presidency is likely to bring about neither utopia nor ruin. Same as a McCain presidency.

Don't let that stop you from the amusing hyperbole, though.

[Ausmerican]

As far as the gnashing your teeth in hell thing, well I dont believe in hell, but there's this old saying.
You go to heaven for the climate, but hell for the company.
And just this thread should show you that the company in hell looks pretty damn good compared to the alternatives.

[MaGZ]

Maybe it's still available. Just make sure the poor (blacks) can't get in.

If you constantly play classical music outside you bunker they won’t come in. It works like a repellent.

[maxfrost]

heh heh, I want to live in a surfdom. Sounds like a beach-bum paradise.

***Cue The Ventures***

[funk de fino]

This thread is a reminder to me why the US had Bush for 2 terms and that they could possibly be dumb enough to vote in McCain.

I hope I am proved wrong.

[Redtail]

If you constantly play classical music outside you bunker they won’t come in. It works like a repellent.
Hmmm... James (DePriest, the conductor) didn't run.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T06uK78b2ME

Neither did the Mighty Marching 100 of FAMU. (Nor their fans.)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HmRCSCNsuFc

Hell even Farrakhan is into it.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=kEI1jl4bacQ

So... You're wrong again.

ETA: Granted the first two are Romantic but they suffice.

[Hokulele]

Hmmm...


Nor did Michael Jackson run.

http://popdirt.com/michael-jackson-prefers-classical-music-not-pop/10613/


(Wait a minute, I forget. Is he black?)

[Redtail]

Nor did Michael Jackson run.

http://popdirt.com/michael-jackson-prefers-classical-music-not-pop/10613/


(Wait a minute, I forget. Is he black?)

Up until Thriller, after that we traded him for Jim McMahon (due to the Super Bowl Shuffle... providing he never do it again.) Rick Ashton, and Wayne Brady.

[Hokulele]

<snip> due to the Super Bowl Shuffle <snip>


Now you are just trying to piss me off.



:p

[SnuggleSmacks]

Still waiting for those links....

[MRC_Hans]

For what it is worth, I don't think Iamme is racist.No. Just mentally challenged.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

But it is with socialism, not freedom. He will be taking away our freedom. Are some of you people blind to this and what his ambitions are all about? What is going to fund his pie in the sky ambiitions? You need small businesses in this country, along with prospering corporations, that can grow and thrive and not pay big taxes so they can employ more people and let capitalism work for us. You can't have gov't hand-out programs. The money has to come from somewhere. You can't steal from the rich. This type of system does not work.

It doesn't? That's funny, 'cause we've had that for over half a century, in my neck of the woods (and it ain't even marxist). Taxation at about 60-70% (Except on cars where it's 200%). Plenty of government hand-out programs. Plenty of regulation.

And you know what? Our economy is better than that of the US. Our productivity is one of the highest in the world. Unemployment practically nil. Export industry booming. Trade deficit plunging. We practically thrive on innivation. Plenty of small businesses.

(Oh, there are bad things, also, but hell seems a long way off, even during the current crisis).

Hans

[Alferd_Packer]

I'm no fan of Obama. I think he's a typical corrupt Chicago politician. But that there was an insane and racist rant.

Give me a break. Chicago Politicians are no more corrupt than any other city politician.

Anyway, {quibble} Obama was never a Chicago politician He represented part of the Chicago area in the State senate.

[boloboffin]

All the sinning I've done, and I'll be gnashing my teeth in hell just because Obama got elected???

What a buzzkill.

[jimbob]

For what it is worth, I don't think Iamme is racist.

MaGz, on the other hand...

[Chaos]

Eeeeeeee-yeeaaaaaah.

Sadly, an Obama Presidency is likely to bring about neither utopia nor ruin. Same as a McCain presidency.

Don't let that stop you from the amusing hyperbole, though.

An Obama presidency will, however, motivate a lot of racist scum to show their true colors.

But then one might say he already does that by running for president. Not that I´m naming any particular posters on this board... :cool:

[jimbob]

I will