Edutainment

[IchabodPlain]

The other day, as I was helping my nephew (who is a junior in high school) do some homework and he mentioned he was shown Dances With Wolves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dances_with_Wolves) in his American History class.

Later, when I got home, my friend who is a grad student in Contemporary European History told me they were watching The Lives of Others (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_lives_of_others) in class.

To me it seems it's ok if, for instance, they are in a film school, or an arts major, or even for younger children as a way to "get them into" learning, but this seems to be a waste of class-time.


But I appeal to forum-members (and especially teachers); are movies acceptable educational material for high school and college level students in non-arts classes?

[drkitten]

But I appeal to forum-members (and especially teachers); are movies acceptable educational material for high school and college level students in non-arts classes?

I'd say "yes" if the movies are well-done, factually accurate, relevant and not done to excess.

People "learn" in different ways, and lecturing and reading textbooks are actually not very good ways to present material. A lot of people will remember stuff better if they "see" it in a movie than if they just read it or listen to it.

It also depends on what you're trying to present; _Dances With Wolves_ isn't bad as a description of the cultural differences between the Sioux and the Anglo-Americans, but it's simply terrible as a chronological or geographical resource.

[Floyt]

Whereas, e.g., "The Lives of Others" has been described as rather painfully accurate by some of those who actually were stuck in the middle of the whole Kafkaesque muppetry.

If a work of entertainment can be judged accurate in the aspects you want to teach, I see no reason not to make use of it in education.

[Hindmost]

A carefully selected movie can work very well in class. When I was teaching, I would show episodes of Mythbusters...the "Race for the Moon" documentary and also--on occassion-- "Fat Man and Little Boy." The teacher must know where a hollywood type movie is accurate and inaccurate to instruct the students about the context.

Putting them in the proper context, they could work out well to provide education value without the teacher having to lecture too much. (It also can give a needed break from routine classwork) However, I would show such things only a few times a year...if it is done on a weekly basis...well, the teacher might be a coach.

glenn

[TexasJack]

I think that it would be important to stop the movie at certain places and explain how it relates to the subject matter. This way you would have a nice combination of film and lecture.

[athon]

As others have said, it depends on how it's being used.

All resources are basically teaching tools - useless unless accompanied by adequate guidance. I've used all sorts of movies, shows and seemingly unrelated activities to get kids to see a different perspective on a scientific concept.

Athon

[pgwenthold]

I'd say "yes" if the movies are well-done, factually accurate, relevant and not done to excess.

People "learn" in different ways, and lecturing and reading textbooks are actually not very good ways to present material. A lot of people will remember stuff better if they "see" it in a movie than if they just read it or listen to it.

It also depends on what you're trying to present; _Dances With Wolves_ isn't bad as a description of the cultural differences between the Sioux and the Anglo-Americans, but it's simply terrible as a chronological or geographical resource.

But then again, can't you use that to contrast with reality?

For example, I think the movie JFK is not a bad tool to teach about the assassination, if you wanted to do that, because you can spend time ripping it apart and talking about where it is wrong and what IS the correct answer.

Granted, you would probably need to spend a whole course to cover all the mistakes of JFK, but the topics are there.

[Rob Lister]

I think a well-done movie, one that is more or less factually accurate or at least true to form is a great teaching tool and can be a great inspiration to many a student.

[TexasJack]

I believe in Howard Gardner's theories that there are a variety of ways to learn, among them, visual, spatial, bodily/kinesthetic, musical, interpersonal, and intrapersonal. So yes a film fits into that category if used in the right framework.

[Horatius]

I think that it would be important to stop the movie at certain places and explain how it relates to the subject matter. This way you would have a nice combination of film and lecture.



The History Channel here in Canada used to have a weekly feature called "History on Film", that paired a fictional account of an historical event with a documentary on the same subject. The whole thing was framed by scenes with a host, who often contrasted the fiction with the reality. It was often quite a good take on the subject.

[IchabodPlain]

Thanks everyone, I appreciate your responses:).

The majority of the opinions expressed are one's I expect, and to a certain extent agree with. My issue comes with teachers putting on whole movies which consume an entire class or more. This is babysitting; a way to have a break from classwork so the teacher can grade papers, without having to deal with students while keeping them reasonably quiet. Using certain segments, coupled with interaction to explain inaccuracies or give context seems to be a solid middle-ground I cannot argue against.

However, in both of my OP examples, this was not true. It took nearly half a week to watch Dances With Wolves in my nephew's class, for chrissakes!

In the college grad school class, even though The Lives of Others has been described as accurate (and I haven't seen it yet), it is not a required class for anyone other than a Euro History major. I would tend to think most of the people in the class have seen it (like my friend had) or would plan on seeing it. Maybe it's just the thought of grad school kids watching movies in class that gets to me. Isn't there some kind of primary source you could be considering? Lecturing on how the agricultural revolution in Holland and England fueled the migration to urban centers, helping to lay the foundation for the industrial revolution?

I still think it doesn't seem to be to be a useful way to spend a class, or the money used to enroll in a class that includes watching a movie I could have spent $6 to see at the MegaPlex in my free time. Class is for education, not some damn movie night.

The History Channel here in Canada used to have a weekly feature called "History on Film", that paired a fictional account of an historical event with a documentary on the same subject. The whole thing was framed by scenes with a host, who often contrasted the fiction with the reality. It was often quite a good take on the subject.

I do not mean to lump documentary footage with "Major Motion Pictures", the former is a great way to visually engage students with real events. The problem I have with the latter is that movies deal in Hollywood-style romance, twist-endings, character development, not historical accuracy. Don't get me wrong, there are movies which depict semi-accurate portrayals, but that is a positive consequence of the fact that the people who made the movie want money and must appeal to that market. At the end of the day, movies raison d'être is to make money, not educate.

Documentaries are history; big difference (IMHO).

And I dare not respond to Floyt, who if he/she is a teacher, I may of had one of his/her classes (lived near the Clearwater/Dunedin border for nearly all of my schooling). :D

[Arthur Denton]

Once someone told me that Edutainment is an art. You make kids more favorable to come to school, because they're entertained by it, and then you give them true education in the "between entertainment" classes.

On a side note, a classic:

Let me welcome you ladies and gentlemen
I would like to say hello
Are you ready for some entertainment?
Are you ready for a show?
Gonna rock gonna roll you
Get you dancing in the aisles
Jazz and a razzmatazz you
With a little bit of style
Cmon let me entertain you
Let me entertain you let me entertain you

Ive come here to sell you my body
I can show you some good merchandise
Ill pull you and pill you
Ill crueladeville you
And to thrill you Ill use any device

Well give you crazy performance
Well give you grounds for divorce
Well give you piece de resistance
And a tour de force of course

We found the right location
Got a lot of pretty lights
The sound and amplification listen
Hey if you need a fix if you want a high
Stickells see to that
With elektra and emi
Well show you where its at
So cmon
Let me entertain you let me entertain you
Let me entertain you

Just take a look at the menu
We give you rock a la carte
Well breakfast at tiffanys
Well sing to you in japanese
Were only here to entertain you

If you wanna see some action
You get nothing but the best
The s and m attraction
Weve got the pleasure chest
Chicago and new orleans
We get you on the line
If you dig the new york scene
Well have a son of a bitch of a time
Cmon
Let me entertain you let me entertain you
Let me entertain you tonight

[Tiktaalik]

I had a hard time connecting with World War II history for some reason - until I was flipping through the TV channels and came across a broadcast of a black-and-white film, variously reported as coming out in 1945 or 1948, called "The Search". Maybe because the kid was a Czechoslavakian jew, as were my family, it grabbed my interest. Suddenly, WWII became a lot more real to me. I think that's the value of films, whether documentary or well-done fiction - the combination of visual, audio, and storyline makes for a more memorable experience and tends to stick, whereas lecture and reading may not for some people.

[HawaiiBigSis]

I paid for my son's entire class to go to the megaplex and see "Schindler's List" when it first came out. Movies can make that connection to real life, as Tiktaalik observes.

And except for the length, I don't see any difference between the documentaries that took up time in classes when I was in school. If a lively discussion ensues as a direct result of the time spent watching the movie, then it's definitely worth it from an educational point of view.

FWIW, I got extra credit in college for seeing "A Man Called Horse" and participating in a discussion about it afterwards. (Admittedly, it wasn't during class time, I had to use a date night to go see it, but still.) And let's not talk about the number of film noir I saw in my mystery-as-literature class.

[kev]

I think that showing movies can do all of the above - educate, challenge, inspire, give kids a break, and even -god forbid - allow a teacher to catch up, or plan ahead.

I show whole movies maybe once per semester in courses I teach. For instance, in biology, I show GATTACA first semester after we study genetics. I use it as a springboard to discuss the Human Genome Project, to dispell misconceptions about what sceince is currently capable of doing, to get kids to debate the issue and think about possible implications in the future. Second semester, I show the original Planet of the Apes after we complete a 6 week unit focused around evolution and speciation. I challenge students to find inaccuracies within the movie about how natural selection/evolution works, as well as some things which might be more reasonable.

The movies always stir up good discussion, the kids enjoy them and I think that they can be used in a way to help students think in a more abstract manner. And yes, I also place them at times where it allows me to catch up from one unit and prepare for another. Teachers trying to incorporate some time into their day on occassion, is reasonable. If someone were told they had to prepare a 45 minute presentation for an audience of 25 people who did not want to be there - it would take time and be stressful. Now imagine if you were told you need to prepare 20 or 30 of those 45 minute presentations - this week.

[GreyICE]

I think that it would be important to stop the movie at certain places and explain how it relates to the subject matter. This way you would have a nice combination of film and lecture.

You're one of those people who thinks it's really funny to stop after each chapter of a book and discuss that chapter too, right?

Do you cut a painting into pieces and show students each piece one at a time?

[Alt+F4]

Your nephew's class is already up to westward expansion?! Most U.S. history classes are barely up to Washington's administration. The movie certainly isn't slowing that teacher down. I feel sorry for math teachers though, no movies for them.

[technoextreme]

I feel sorry for math teachers though, no movies for them.
Heh... Wrong. I think the only educational movie that stuck with me is one solely based off of math.:) Someone here has to know which one I'm talking about. *Quack*

[Maus]

Movies are a part of many cultures around the globe. They exist in our daily lives as a form of entertainment. To ignore they are there would be a mistake in my opinion.

By showing certain movies in a classroom, I think it gives the students the opportunity to discuss them in a learning environment. As long as the instructor is there as a resource and to point the students in the right direction if they want to learn more about the subject at hand.

I think this would apply to a student's critical thinking and would also give them guidance in that they should trust a compilation of many resources on the subject rather than one interpretation.

-Maus

[Hindmost]

Your nephew's class is already up to westward expansion?! Most U.S. history classes are barely up to Washington's administration. The movie certainly isn't slowing that teacher down. I feel sorry for math teachers though, no movies for them.

Numb3rs can be used in class...

Math teachers have pi(e) day to break the doldrums.

glenn

[TexasJack]

You're one of those people who thinks it's really funny to stop after each chapter of a book and discuss that chapter too, right?

Do you cut a painting into pieces and show students each piece one at a time?

If a student is asked to paint an apple, but, instead starts painting an orange, do you allow the student to continue to drift in the wrong direction?

[GreyICE]

If a student is asked to paint an apple, but, instead starts painting an orange, do you allow the student to continue to drift in the wrong direction?
Did you just suggest that there is a right method of artistic observation and that the teacher needs to prevent wrong observations from being drawn?

Can you understand why that method is anathema?

The first viewing should be unaltered. If the teacher THEN goes back and highlights various things in the film this works, but there is no 'right' way to view a piece of art, and the teacher's interjection of personal bias and total disruption of the intent of the narrative is an abomination to the very concept. If we wish to identify why people often wait to be spoon fed pap instead of thinking for themselves, the concept that you should be spoon fed meaning from the very earliest years is a good place to start.

[TexasJack]

Did you just suggest that there is a right method of artistic observation and that the teacher needs to prevent wrong observations from being drawn?

Can you understand why that method is anathema?

The first viewing should be unaltered. If the teacher THEN goes back and highlights various things in the film this works, but there is no 'right' way to view a piece of art, and the teacher's interjection of personal bias and total disruption of the intent of the narrative is an abomination to the very concept. If we wish to identify why people often wait to be spoon fed pap instead of thinking for themselves, the concept that you should be spoon fed meaning from the very earliest years is a good place to start.

Obviously you missed the analogy completely.

[GreyICE]

Obviously you missed the analogy completely.

Obviously you failed at communicating what you meant by it.

Care to clarify your incredibly obtuse point?

[TexasJack]

Obviously you failed at communicating what you meant by it.

Care to clarify your incredibly obtuse point?

My obtuse point? LOL.

[GreyICE]

My obtuse point? LOL.

Your analogy suggests to me that you consider students to need guidance in how to properly interpret the material, which is why you would stop the tape and tell them how they should be thinking.

You have now insisted that's not the case and then insisted the point you think you're making is obvious.

No, seriously, what point do you honestly think you're making here?

[athon]

I see your concern, however think your focus on movies is misplaced.

Far more common, IMO, is the abuse of the textbook as a 'baby sitting tool'. Teachers all too often pass out the text books, ask the student to turn to page 35, read, and do questions 1 - 6. Homework is whatever you don't get done (and then doesn't get checked). Or, rather than a text book, many use a work sheet to the same effect.

Either way, education is replaced with mild entertainment. Text books, movies, work sheets, games, discussions...all are fantastic educational tools which - in the right context - enrich learning. On their own, without a conscious effort being put into using them well, they are merely a way of distracting a student and mimicking a lesson so the teacher can get through just one more hour of the day.

I'd be lying if I said I never did this myself. I've had lessons where I've rationalised the putting on of a video for 'educational purposes' where really it has been to buy myself an hour to finish marking, reward the kids, plan for another lesson or even rest if I'm unwell (sure, I could have taken a day off...which for a teacher amounts to more work than simply coming in and supervising).

For the most part, I enjoy teaching way too much to sit back and not engage. Give me twenty years of it on little pay without much support and I might start to lose that passion, though.

Athon