Sleeptracker - woo or a stroke of genius?

[Safe-Keeper]

OK, so there's this thing being marketed by ads on my Facebook page called Sleeptracker, which is a kind of wristwatch that keeps track of how heavy or lightly you sleep and wakes you up only when you're in light sleep. You give it a window (for example 7:30 to 8:00) and it wakes you up when you're in light sleep and inside this window.

Ingenious if it works, but it sounds a bit like "too good to be true woo". Predictably enough, there's technical descriptions and positive reviews on the site, but nothing indicating whether or not it actually works. I'm considering buying this thing as I badly need some sort of miracle to keep my sleep pattern on track, but it sounds a lot like woo or even placebo effect to me (you think you'll wake up energized, so when you are awakened, you feel more awake).

Norwegian page (http://www.sleeptracker.no/index-3.html).
English language page (http://www.sleeptracker.com/).

[shadron]

Ah-ha - so this is what you mean when you speak of Americans not grasping the latest in technology. You're meaning becomes clear...

[lionking]

What is the problem if you are woken up from "deep sleep"?

[AliasN]

What is the problem if you are woken up from "deep sleep"?
You'll die!1!

No, wait. Only if you're sleepwalking. Don't wake someone up from a deep sleepwalking...

Oh, no. If you die in your... dream... you die in real life. Yes! That's it. That is why you find people sometimes have died in their sleep, am I right? Because their dream was so vivid that their heart stopped beating. Or they dreamt of Freddie Kruger. Check their body for scissormarks. It's important for science.

Wait, what are we discussing again? I'm so sleepy...

[Safe-Keeper]

What is the problem if you are woken up from "deep sleep"?According to their site, you only feel groggy if you awake during your deep sleep phase. If you awake during light sleep, provided you've had sufficient sleep, presumably, you don't feel tired when you wake up.

[lionking]

According to their site, you only feel groggy if you awake during your deep sleep phase. If you awake during light sleep, provided you've had sufficient sleep, presumably, you don't feel tired when you wake up.
Is there any evidence for this, because I always feel the same when I wake up.

[Safe-Keeper]

Is there any evidence for thisThat's basically what I ask in the OP;).

[leonAzul]

OK, so there's this thing being marketed by ads on my Facebook page called Sleeptracker, which is a kind of wristwatch that keeps track of how heavy or lightly you sleep and wakes you up only when you're in light sleep. You give it a window (for example 7:30 to 8:00) and it wakes you up when you're in light sleep and inside this window.

Ingenious if it works, but it sounds a bit like "too good to be true woo". Predictably enough, there's technical descriptions and positive reviews on the site, but nothing indicating whether or not it actually works. I'm considering buying this thing as I badly need some sort of miracle to keep my sleep pattern on track, but it sounds a lot like woo or even placebo effect to me (you think you'll wake up energized, so when you are awakened, you feel more awake).

Norwegian page (http://www.sleeptracker.no/index-3.html).
English language page (http://www.sleeptracker.com/).

Because of my own problems with sleep disorders, I am aware that there is an element of truth to this claim, yet only an element.

There is evidence that the state of one's sleep at the moment of waking up has an impact on the effectiveness of sleeping on one's wakefulness. Sleep is far more complex than merely deep or shallow, so I would be skeptical that such a simple device could effectively trigger the optimal moment for the alarm to go off.

And while this may be beneficial for alleviating daytime sleepiness, it would have very little merit in entraining one's sleep pattern.

There is emerging evidence that daytime sleepiness, especially when caused by sleep apnea, is strongly correlated with more serious health problems. If this is something that is troubling you, then please consult with a doctor at a sleep-wake clinic--there are now quite a few to choose from, especially those associated with research programs at medical schools.

Here's a link to a good (woo-free) online resource for more information:
http://www.sleepfoundation.org/

[leonAzul]

You'll die!1!

Actually, it has been demonstrated that severe sleep deprivation can cause metabolic dysfunction and death.


No, wait. Only if you're sleepwalking. Don't wake someone up from a deep sleepwalking...


Yet another misconception. One of the most effective treatments is, if the somnambulist is communicative, to convince them to take a shower, wake up, and get back into a healthier sleep pattern. Otherwise, a garden hose is as good as a bucket of cold water :D Obviously, if someone has put themselves at grave physical risk--climbing a roof, or walking down the middle of a highway--that needs to be addressed first.

Oh, no. If you die in your... dream... you die in real life. Yes! That's it. That is why you find people sometimes have died in their sleep, am I right? Because their dream was so vivid that their heart stopped beating.

Yes, Dreamscape is one of my favorite movies too :D

Wait, what are we discussing again? I'm so sleepy...
:bgrin:

[AliasN]

leon, I did like Dreamscape as well, and I thought the first Nightmare on Elm Street was quite a clever horror movie as it actually made you NOT want to go to sleep afterward. :)

But to be a little more helpful than just making fun, there is not enough information on their site to let you know the mechanisms by which they're gathering this information. I could see it perhaps being able to monitor your temperature as well as your heart rate, but it seems that it involves a motion sensor as the major indicator of your sleep patterns (at least that's what I gleaned from their FAQ and How it Works sections). I don't know that this is enough to do what it says it does.

In any event, they are not claiming to change your sleep patterns (which is good), only to help with when you wake up. We would need to see more information on this, such as what leonAzul provided to know if it was at all plausible.

I also have sleep issues and I'd love to go to a sleep clinic one of these days. I'd never buy something like this, though. Mostly because I wouldn't want a great heavy thing on my arm while I was trying to sleep. I have thought about those natural sunrise alarm clocks though. I haven't done any real research on those, either. My first reaction is that those are woo-ish, too, but it'd be cool if they worked.

Good luck!

[NobbyNobbs]

According to their site, you only feel groggy if you awake during your deep sleep phase. If you awake during light sleep, provided you've had sufficient sleep, presumably, you don't feel tired when you wake up.

Just last week on NPR they were interviewing a doctor who studies sleep disorders at, I think, a hospital in Philadelphia (it was actually only a related story; the main guest was a comedian who uses his sleep disorder stories as part of his routine).

Anyway, I remember the doctor saying that there are 4 or 5 periods of REM sleep during the average night. The first one is about 10 minutes long, and each one after is a little longer, with the last being about 30 minutes long. He also said that if you wake up from REM sleep, you tend to feel more tired than if you wake up in a lighter sleep.

So, according to a sleep doctor I heard on the radio once, yes, there is truth to this. Whether or not that's enough evidence for you, I don't know. And, of course, it has no bearing on whether the bracelet works as advertised.

[GT/CS]

How does the contraption know when one is in the correct sleep mode?

[gnome]

Quantum vibrations :D

[gerdbonk]

I also have sleep issues and I'd love to go to a sleep clinic one of these days. I'd never buy something like this, though. Mostly because I wouldn't want a great heavy thing on my arm while I was trying to sleep. I have thought about those natural sunrise alarm clocks though. I haven't done any real research on those, either. My first reaction is that those are woo-ish, too, but it'd be cool if they worked.
Good luck!

I had one of those sunrise clocks. It kept terrible time, losing about 5 minutes a day. As far as being awakened by light, for me there seemed to be some truth to it, as ambient light makes it difficult for me to sleep. But by the end of the first week I was being awakened 30 minutes late. I don't need a clock that encourages sleeping in.

[sanguine]

I had one of those sunrise clocks. It kept terrible time, losing about 5 minutes a day. As far as being awakened by light, for me there seemed to be some truth to it, as ambient light makes it difficult for me to sleep. But by the end of the first week I was being awakened 30 minutes late. I don't need a clock that encourages sleeping in.

I found the benefit for me of a sunrise clock was that it's kind of depressing to wake up in the dark, and it helped me avoid that. The light won't wake me up, but at least waking up in a lit room means I'm not annoyed about the fact that I'm getting up before dawn.

It's pretty much the alarm that actually wakes me up, though. :)

[AliasN]

I found the benefit for me of a sunrise clock was that it's kind of depressing to wake up in the dark, and it helped me avoid that. The light won't wake me up, but at least waking up in a lit room means I'm not annoyed about the fact that I'm getting up before dawn.
I was battling the winter blues something fierce last year and even resorted to looking for a sun lamp to help fight it. That's where I heard about these alarm clocks.

But actually, it's not the waking up that I have a hard time with, more the turning my brain off in order to fall sleep that is the problem. I realize that I have bad "sleep hygiene", though. As I type this, I'm sitting on my bed. That's a no-no, along with a bunch of other "falling asleep well" rules that I ignore, so I accept that it's my own fault.

I think sleep problems are relatively pervasive (almost everyone has trouble with it at some point in their lives) and that's why there are so many products developed to "fix" it, some of them total bunk. Wherever there is a deep, human need, there are charlatans trying to make money off it.

[Janus]

Here is a review (http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/sleeptracker_watch) of the watch with a little explanation of how it works. The reviewer wasn't exactly sold.

I don't think any of these things work as well as their manufacturers would like you to think.

That said I must confess to owning a cheap LED sunrise clock. It's the first alarm clock I don't hate with a passion. The light wakes me up gently which is more than I can say about any conventional alarm clock I've owned. The light has no effect on my partner though, who apparently needs to hear some kind of death screech in order to rise before noon. Horses for courses I guess.

[rjh01]

I think the best idea is to ensure you get a good night's sleep. Then it does not matter what type of alarm clock you use.

[Whiplash]

Is there any evidence for this, because I always feel the same when I wake up.

I feel as if it's the case for me... although I admit I can't say for certain when I've been in deep sleep or not every time. But I have noticed, when I wake up with vivid memories of dreaming, I figure I'm having woken from lighter REM sleep. It's times when I wake up wondering who I am and where I am (briefly) and disoriented that I figure I'm coming out of deep sleep. And sometimes when I wake feeling like that, I really feel off and not myself for the entire day.

[Uncayimmy]

I think the best idea is to ensure you get a good night's sleep. Then it does not matter what type of alarm clock you use.

Easier said than done for some of us. I have several sleep disorders including apnea. I've had problems as far back as I can remember. Those who sleep normally have great difficulty grasping how difficult and frustrating sleep can be. It took my wife a few years to finally realize that this is truly a medical rather than behavioral problem.

The best some of us can do is cope. The biggest difficulty is meshing with the rest of the world. Google Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome to read about another disorder I have. I once read about a study of one woman who worked as a freelance writer and was thus able devote a lot of time to the scientists. When allowed to follow her "natural" sleep instincts she would stay up about 18 hours and sleep for nine. She felt great, but sleep patterns like that make it hard to schedule appointments.

As for this gadget I can't speak one way or another. I will offer that I use a sunrise alarm, which is the most efficient and gentle way to wake me. I also know that the body has sleep cycles. For some of us it is very difficult to wake us during the deep sleep part of a cycle. If some widget could detect the first light sleep period after a certain time in the morning, it would certainly be easier to wake us. We may not be fully rested yet, but I can speak from experience that things would be worse if we're allowed to enter another period of deep sleep.

[leonAzul]

Here is a review (http://the-gadgeteer.com/review/sleeptracker_watch) of the watch with a little explanation of how it works. The reviewer wasn't exactly sold.


Thanks for the link.

That's very ingenious. The science, for the most part, is solid. The accelerometer is taking advantage of the fact REM sleep is also accompanied by involuntary twitching throughout the body, as well as the eyes. If a REM event occurs within the "window", it is safe to assume that the wearer is in a comparatively light sleeping mode and more likely to wake up alert.

The blogger's journal entries reveal a serious short coming: the "window" needs to be extended to at least 45 minutes to be useful. Perhaps it is a limitation of the available chips that there are only 3 options, yet 15-30-45 would be more useful than the current 10-20-30.

[Ashles]

OK, so there's this thing being marketed by ads on my Facebook page
That's really all I needed to form a conclusion.

[Here_to_learn]

There is a least one other manufacturer, with a different design but (I think) the same basic idea.

On this web page (http://www.axbo.com/axbo/CMS/CMS.aspx?ClientID=wf421174814636235810&SiteID=0&GroupID=13&Status=318EA594AFA5AE9B&Language=E) they summarise some research done into the area, and link the the research organisation. I can't judge the quality of the research, but they claim that (at least part of) the research was double-blind placebo-controlled.

[Safe-Keeper]

If the sunrise clock is this lamp that thing that wakes you up by going brighter and brighter, I want one. I've heard only good things about it from my buddies.

[Uncayimmy]

If the sunrise clock is this lamp that thing that wakes you up by going brighter and brighter, I want one. I've heard only good things about it from my buddies.

I have a Verliux Rise and Shine Lamp. It's not cheap, but it's very good quality. You can set it to slowly bring on the light and/or sound (radio, nature sounds). You can vary the time period to make it quick or more gradual. I would say it has been worth the price.

[Cynthia of Syracuse]

This sounds like a consumer-grade actigraph with an added "alarm" function. They're used in studying sleep disorders, so it's not without a legitimate track record. Whether this particular device is well-enough designed to be useful and whether the "alarm" is effective are, of course, entirely separate issues. ;)

Cynthia of Syracuse
(Poster child for DSPS)