Novel rape defense: third party consent.

[Ladewig]

Story (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=1649211)

ESPN-
"Although prosecutors believed the woman's account [of being gang raped], they decided against filing charges because the men had been promised sex by a player and a student who organized the party, according to a lawsuit filed against the university by the woman.

They had been built up by the players to believe that the situation they were going into was specifically to provide them with sex," Boulder County District Attorney Mary Keenan said in a sworn statement included in a court filing Monday."

That's not the scariest part - this is

The filing also says head coach Gary Barnett continued to try to sign one of the recruits, even after Irving and the campus police chief told him of "overwhelming" evidence that the woman was assaulted.

[bignickel]

Damn. I was hoping before I read that that it happened in some other country. Evidently, my own country has become some other backward nation when I wasn't looking.


Sick.

The simple effective cure for those football problems is a Louisvile slugger upside the head. It should at the very least knock the wax out of their ears so that they can hear the word "no".

[corplinx]

She should have had a gun. _Noone_ should have to endure something as invasive and humiliating as being gang raped.

Women need guns more than any macho NRA man.

[shuize]

Originally posted by corplinx
She should have had a gun. _Noone_ should have to endure something as invasive and humiliating as being gang raped.

Women need guns more than any macho NRA man.

What she needs a prosecutor with some balls. I'm not usually big fan of date rape charges, but when the woman is passed out, it's pretty clear cut to me.

WTF is "third party consent"? Does this mean others charged can use that defense as well?

Oh wait, is that Boulder County, Colorado? Nevermind. Everything is clear now.

[Zep]

Where can I get a deal like that, puh-lease! Guaranteed sex with any and all legal problems dealt with, PLUS I get signed up to play for the football team too!

However, without taking the perp's side in this, I wonder why the woman's lawyers aren't going for broke. It's an obvious case of gang-rape, yet they are declining to push the case. Why? {scratches head}

Anyway, I suggest the Louisville Slugger be used, but not as a bat - let's just say that the perp's haemorrhoids will feel stretched for weeks afterwards! Behind the bikesheds, of course...

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by corplinx
She should have had a gun. _Noone_ should have to endure something as invasive and humiliating as being gang raped.

Read the article again. She was so drunk she passed out, and awoke to find the rape taking place. Difficult to see how a gun would've helped her at that point. And do you really want to see people passing out through drink while armed?

As shuize says, she needs a prosecutor with some balls.

[wollery]

Okay let me get this straight, if someone tells you that there's a girl who wants to have sex with you then waking her up from a drunken stupor and forcing her to have sex isn't rape? Is that what this is saying? A woman doesn't have to give her consent so long as someone else has?

As prosecuting attorney I'd have only three questions for the accused;
1. did you have sex with her?
2. was she fully concious and capable of speech?
3. did you actually ask her if it was okay to have sex with her.

If the answer to 1 is yes and the answer to either 2 or 3 is no then it's rape. What a third party tells you is utterly irrelevant.
This should have been an open and shut case. I want to know who was paying off the prosecutor?

[Marc]

Actually, this would make the third party a pimp. Not sure of all the legal ramifications of that, especially forced prostitution.

[Tmy]

This is bulls**t. The case isnt as clear as the Plaintiff alledges or else theyd brought charges.

Heres what happend. She got drunk (along with everyone else) and got banged at a sex party. The next day she probably regreted her whoreish behavior and then started crying rape.

[shuize]

I just reread the article again. This statement by the prosecutrix had me scratching my head.

"In her deposition, Keenan said that to prosecute, she would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the woman hadn't consented and that the athletes knew there was a lack of consent."

It's been quite a while since I've thought about these things. Can someone more up to date refresh my recollection whether the second factor about also having to prove the defendants "knew there was a lack of consent" is correct? That doesn't sound right to me.

[shuize]

Originally posted by Tmy
This is ********. The case isnt as clear as the Plaintiff alledges or else theyd brought charges.

Heres what happend. She got drunk (along with everyone else) and got banged at a sex party. The next day she probably regreted her whoreish behavior and then started crying rape.

That very well could be true. But it's not the reason presented by the prosecutors for dismissing the case.

[Tmy]

Its the old whorehouse defense! If you go to a brothel theres an underlying consent to sex. This can be withdrawn of course at any time.

No where is it said that the woman told them "no" or acted or said anything that could be taken as withdrawing consent for sexual relations.

You cant punch someone in the street but you can in a boxing ring.

[geni]

There was a similar case in the UK some time ago. A man invited two of his mates to have sex with his wife telling them "she'll kick and scream but she wan't it realy". Both men got off because they claimed that they genuinly belived that that the women had consented to sex.

[shuize]

Originally posted by geni
There was a similar case in the UK some time ago. A man invited two of his mates to have sex with his wife telling them "she'll kick and scream but she wan't it realy". Both men got off because they claimed that they genuinly belived that that the women had consented to sex.

But what about the husband? He'd still be on the hook for rape with the other two.

[geni]

Originally posted by shuize


But what about the husband? He'd still be on the hook for rape with the other two.

I think the problem in this case (and why it made it to legal text books) is that the woman had consented to sex with the husband. Unfortunatly I don't Know what happened to the husband.

[shuize]

Originally posted by geni


I think the problem in this case (and why it made it to legal text books) is that the woman had consented to sex with the husband. Unfortunatly I don't Know what happened to the husband.

He could have consentual sex with her and still be a party to the rape by the other two. Just as if he didn't participate but held her down. Maybe there's more to the case though.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Tmy
This is bulls**t. The case isnt as clear as the Plaintiff alledges or else theyd brought charges.

Heres what happend. She got drunk (along with everyone else) and got banged at a sex party. The next day she probably regreted her whoreish behavior and then started crying rape.

Why don't you do us a favor and lube up your ass and go get drunk in a prison, You are such a ****.

Hooray Tmy SUPPORTS RAPE. Are you proud , be sure to tell your grandmother!

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Tmy


No where is it said that the woman told them "no" or acted or said anything that could be taken as withdrawing consent for sexual relations.


You don't have to withdraw consent when she didn't give it in the first place!
Oh thats grand isn't it, she was passed out! You can't GIVE CONSENT when you are passed out. So you are saying that very guy who puts a mickey in drink gets a free rape!

You are a ****.


Sometime after about 16 players and recruits arrived at the party, Simpson went into a bedroom and lay down because she was drunk and tired, the lawsuit says.

She awoke to find two recruits removing her clothes. The recruits raped her, and after several other players and recruits surrounded her bed in the dark, at least two forced her to perform oral sex, according to a motion filed in the case this week.



hey Tmy where does it say she gave consent, you are such a pig! Why don't you teel every one that you support rape, what a ****!

[Tmy]

You're right David I'm pro rape!!! Yee haw!!!

Where was indignation when somebody suggested we take a basbaseball bat to the players??? to people who havent even been charged with anything.

Oh I forget, once someone says rape, its a fact. No one ever lies about that.\


Well Im off to drown some kittens.

[Tmy]

She woke up and had sex with them. They did not have sex with her while she was passed out. (if they did, then yes it would be rape) Nothing the article says she gave any indication that she did not want sex.

Your repsonse reminds me of that saturday night live skit. "I want to kiss you now, do I have your permission?" Should everyone be requiredto ask "I want to have sexula relations with you right now. Do I have your permission. Please sign this notrized document ."

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Tmy
You're right David I'm pro rape!!! Yee haw!!!

Where was indignation when somebody suggested we take a basbaseball bat to the players??? to people who havent even been charged with anything.

Oh I forget, once someone says rape, its a fact. No one ever lies about that.\


Well Im off to drown some kittens.

Well , when they hit them with the bat and then get off because someone told them that they were going to get to hit someone I will respond And no, I did not say that the rape was a fact but you making a further bogus claim that she consented to it and then regreted it just perpetuates stereotypes about rape. Every time a woman gets raped, the first response is to call her a liar.

Do you say that about all crimes? I bet you say it only about rape, when you read about a mugging , do you sit there and say, well they gave thier money away and then regreted it?

Sorry, you don't have to support rape, do you question other victims or only rape victims.

Rape is not a crime of sex, it is a crime of violence. rape is not sex it is violence.

(So are you going to bob for kittens? I would rather drown puppeis, they don't have claws.)

[corplinx]

Originally posted by Ian Osborne


Read the article again. She was so drunk she passed out, and awoke to find the rape taking place.

My bad! I was wrong.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Zep

However, without taking the perp's side in this, I wonder why the woman's lawyers aren't going for broke. It's an obvious case of gang-rape, yet they are declining to push the case. Why? {scratches head}


There could be several factors.
1.) Many people don't want to deal with the discomfort or inconvenience ("inconvenience") of someone's pain. Also, the article said a coach was trying to sign up one of the players, despite "evidence the woman was assaulted." Against a very popular, much-sought after sports player, it's a blow to hope and self esteem when a victim sees someone who did something so very wrong receive an offered reward when it seems they (the victim) have been trying to do everything right. It's seems like a double punishment; he did the deed and now he's going to still get something nice.
2.) actual physical evidence could have been tampered with
3.) social pressure not to cause waves
4.) victim's personal embarressment

Really, it's hard to tell, though.