How to deal with Homeopathy claims?

[yairhol]

Hello people,

I was at a pharmacy today and this woman who was in front of me in line started talking on the phone with her friend reading to her the label of a homeopathic 'medicine' she was holding. She read that it works on the prinicples of 'balancing your inner energies'. (Yeah right).
After she got off the phone I told her that homeopathic medicine is ******** and that she should not get it.
Her response was that this is not true. She said that she used to have headaches and went to many specialist doctors who could not pin point her problem. Then she bought some homeopathic drops and the headaches were gone.
Well, since I saw on the bottle that she was holding that it said to drink a little bit of water with the medicine I told her that her headaches are now better probably because she started drinking more water. She just said 'nah, that's not it' and we went our seperate ways.

I wonder if I could have answered better in order to make her pause a little longer and maybe make her wonder a bit if I may have a point that homeopathic 'medicines' are useless.

What would you have said to this woman?
I always have a problem in dealing with 'stories' that "this and that helped my brother/friend/whatever so how can you say it doesn't work?"

Thanks.

[fls]

Hello people,

I was at a pharmacy today and this woman who was in front of me in line started talking on the phone with her friend reading to her the label of a homeopathic 'medicine' she was holding. She read that it works on the prinicples of 'balancing your inner energies'. (Yeah right).
After she got off the phone I told her that homeopathic medicine is ******** and that she should not get it.
Her response was that this is not true. She said that she used to have headaches and went to many specialist doctors who could not pin point her problem. Then she bought some homeopathic drops and the headaches were gone.
Well, since I saw on the bottle that she was holding that it said to drink a little bit of water with the medicine I told her that her headaches are now better probably because she started drinking more water. She just said 'nah, that's not it' and we went our seperate ways.

I wonder if I could have answered better in order to make her pause a little longer and maybe make her wonder a bit if I may have a point that homeopathic 'medicines' are useless.

What would you have said to this woman?
I always have a problem in dealing with 'stories' that "this and that helped my brother/friend/whatever so how can you say it doesn't work?"

Thanks.

That's a good question, and it's probably a good idea to be prepared beforehand.

Maybe something like...

"Yeah, people tend to try all sorts of things until it goes away. Then they give the credit to whatever it was that they tried last. Last time it happened to be homeopathy. Next time it might happen to be a vitamin pill."

Linda

[rjh01]

Or try explaining what the homeopathic medicine is.

Then either they agree with your (unstated) conclusions or they are so stupid they deserve the Darwin award.

However fls' idea is equally valid. Depends on what you are more comfortable with.

[thatguywhojuggles]

I try to quickly explain the process of how the medicine is made. Once they understand that they're getting not even a molecule of the "active ingredient" in their medicine, I let them know that I don't doubt that they may be having some success with their medicine because of the placebo effect.

Then I point out that since the placebo effect is part of what's making them better, shouldn't they use that placebo effect AND proper medicine?

[thatguywhojuggles]

double post...please delete

[Lanzy]

Why would I say anything to a person in that situation? I guess I just would not care what they were throwing their money away on. If a stranger approached me and asked my opinion I would gladly give it, but not in a million years would I comment on a purchase a stranger was making.

[Crundy]

Why would I say anything to a person in that situation? I guess I just would not care what they were throwing their money away on. If a stranger approached me and asked my opinion I would gladly give it, but not in a million years would I comment on a purchase a stranger was making.

Hmm, I'm half and half. If someone doesn't know how homeopathy 'works', then it's a good idea to politely tell them. If they know about homeopathy but still use it then I'm not going to waste time arguing with them, and they deserve everything they get.

[Ivor the Engineer]

It seems to be that one of the best methods of promotion for homoeopathy is physicians who fail to help their patients.

I suggest finding a book by a celebrity she likes which has the message you wish to convey in it. Otherwise just be prepared to have to deal with the feeling that you are not considered a reliable source of information.

On a more serious note, I would not have opened up with a sentence containing an expletive. I think Linda's comment has the potential to be taken as snarky. I'm not sure what could be done in such a time-limited situation, but I would suggest smiling and making a clear statement of fact in a light-hearted way, such as:

"There's nothing but water/ethanol/sugar in that remedy:)"

[paximperium]

Make things very simple. Ask them how it works.
Ask them what does it mean by "balancing energy"?
Ask them what is the active ingredient in it?
Ask them how it is made.

Help them think and ask questions.

This works better then saying it flat out that is false or wrong since they become very defensive after you say it.

[Bee]

A friend told me she takes a homeopathic medicine to 'compliment' her usual daily medicines and swears it works. I have tried pointing out it's only her usual medicines which will be having any effect and the best she could hope for is a placebo effect from the homeopathic remedy. She nodded and agreed but still takes them anyhow 'just in case'.

I asked our local pharmacist why do they sell so many magnetic therapy bracelets when the human body cannot be affected by magnetic fields and they simply replied 'because people buy them'. So much for principles.

[yairhol]

Why would I say anything to a person in that situation? I guess I just would not care what they were throwing their money away on. If a stranger approached me and asked my opinion I would gladly give it, but not in a million years would I comment on a purchase a stranger was making.

I usually don't butt in but this was a case I couldn't resist.
Hearing her on the phone telling her friend that the 'medicine' works on balancing energy (along with the face she was making while reading it, something like - "hey this is way over my head but balanced energy is something we all want to have right?") was too much. Plus I'd feel much better if I helped take away 0.0001% of homeopathic sales in the country.

[Mojo]

I try to quickly explain the process of how the medicine is made. Once they understand that they're getting not even a molecule of the "active ingredient" in their medicine, I let them know that I don't doubt that they may be having some success with their medicine because of the placebo effect.


I'd be very careful about using this argument, as it is something of a strawman. The homoeopathic remedies sold over the counter are often at 30C, which would have nothing left (someone over at Wikipedia has calculated that it would require two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material), but they are also sold at lower dilutions that would have molecules from the MT present. This is generally the case for proprietary homoeopathic "medicines" intended to treat a particular condition.

[burrahobbit]

I have tried to counter homeopathy numerous times and have had only a homeopathic levels of success. I find that most of the people who use sCAM are mostly impervious to reason.

[Stout]

I have tried to counter homeopathy numerous times and have had only a homeopathic levels of success. I find that most of the people who use sCAM are mostly impervious to reason.

My sentiments exactly..

However...spurred on by another thread on the subject, I managed to visit a grand total of two establishments selling over the counter homeopathic remedies posing as someone who was looking to treat seasonal hayfever.

Interestingly the people behind the counter in both places told me that the traditional antihistamines I was using were significantly more effective than the homeopathic remedies they were offering. I asked, why then do people buy these things.

The reply from both places amounted to nothing more than "personal preference"

I figure it's worth being critical to this CAM treatments in effort to at least try to get people to think a little before recommending these to someone else.

anecdote....

I blew a hole in my ear drum scuba diving...yep, I could take a drag off a cigarette and literally blow the smoke out my ear. Several "hippies" offered differing methods of treatment for this including, eating some bizzaro fruit and "putting a bit of alcohol " in my ear.

All except this one "hippy" she took me aside and said..." I know I don't look like it, but I'm actually an MD from Switzerland and you've forced sea water into your inner ear, go to the doctor and get antibiotics....NOW "

I did, because I sometimes refer to the Caribbean as "that great blue undulating toilet" and I'm well aware just what I'd forced into my inner ear. ewwwwwwww.

I know those hippies all meant well, but sometimes good intentions can be counterproductive. Had I not followed that doctors advice and hunted down the doctor ( it was the middle of the night ) I might now be deaf in one ear.

[yairhol]

Had I not followed that doctors advice and hunted down the doctor ( it was the middle of the night ) I might now be deaf in one ear.
You may never know. Maybe if you have taken something homeopathic you could have grown a third ear instead of fixing the old one.
get with the times man.

[volatile]

Honestly, I think a lot of people who buy things like homoeopathic remedies from large chain-store pharmacies simply do not know what "homoeopathic" means, nor how their remedies are produced. I would hazard that a large proportion of people equate 'homoeopathic' with 'natural', and have little or no idea exactly what levels of insanity go into their production.

I know I, for one, certainly thought this until someone pointed it out to me. Telling people what homoeopathy is (though I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to tell complete strangers) is certainly a worthwhile act to engage in.

[xinit]

I'd be very careful about using this argument, as it is something of a strawman. The homoeopathic remedies sold over the counter are often at 30C, which would have nothing left

I've been seeing products that are labeling themselves as 'homeopathic' even though they actually do contain real ingredients. Maybe that homeopathic remedy contains a bit of aspirin or something else; who's to know, considering they don't seem to be held to any sort of labeling requirements...

I expect nothing in my homeopathic products, damn it; I don't want to be surprised by ingredients.

[sanguine]

I know I, for one, certainly thought this until someone pointed it out to me. Telling people what homoeopathy is (though I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to tell complete strangers) is certainly a worthwhile act to engage in.

Likewise, I thought it was an attempt to pseudosciencify random, untested "all natural" remedies. I didn't learn until a couple years ago that "homeopathic" actually meant "not there."

I did have a hilarious exchange with my friend this week, on this topic. She'd been given some "all natural" topical muscle ache gel by a friend. She handed it off to me to ask what I thought about it.

Me: "Well, it's homeopathic, so the listed ingredient's not there, but it's in a witch hazel base, so I imagine you'll feel something."

Her: "So it's basically Tuck's medicated pads as a gel?"

I thought that was a funny one. "Active" ingredient? Absent. But that "base" is considered an active ingredient one aisle over...