Obama born in Kenya?

[MaGZ]

I mentioned this link in a previous thread but decided it should be discussed separately. For now I am a skeptic about this claim.

http://www.colony14.net/id41.html


A writer for “Online Journal” publishes an article on June 9, 2008 claiming that a research team went to Mombasa, Kenya, and located a certificate of the Kenyan birth of Barack Obama, Jr. It is unclear why that story, if it is true, did not get “traction.” There is also speculation that certified copies of a Kenyan birth certificate, with embossed raised seals and with birth witness signatures, are now in the hands of three individuals; the documents allegedly state that Obama was born at 7:24 p.m., on August 4, 1961, at Coast Provincial General Hospital, in Mombasa, Kenya.



There have been claims that Obama’s paternal grandmother (his father’s mother), Sarah Hussein Obama (or Sarah Onyango Obama) (1922 - ), [289] told reporters that Barack Obama Jr. was born in Kenya, when her son came to visit, accompanied by a pregnant Ann Dunham - who was very close to her delivery date. Sarah Hussein Obama further states that she was present in the delivery room when Obama was born in Kenya. [299] One half-brother and one half-sister of candidate Obama also claim he was born in Kenya. [248] This would be consistent with a reported stop by Dunham in the state of Washington on the return trip to Hawaii, and with the possible existence of only a Hawaiian “register of birth,” rather than an actual birth certificate.

[Magyar]

boy is this the best the neo nazis can come up with?? Are you that deranged or just that desperate.

I am reall Magz you think that IF there was ANY truth to this then Hillary wouldn't have looked into it? Or are you saying now that Hillary is also part of the conspiracy to get Obama elected?

[MaGZ]

I recall reading about Ann Dunham’s visit to Washington state after Barack was born, bring her infant to visit old friends. I always wondered what that was about.

[BenBurch]

Only a real ass would continue to repeat a lie.

We have a birth announcement published contemporaneously with his birth in Hawaii.

Racist swine can keep repeating this lie, just like they keep republishing Henry Ford's "The International Jew" and "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion" but repeating the lie does not make a thing true even though that once infamously worked for them by subverting a great nation and allowing the murder of millions of innocents...

[MaGZ]

Another strange thing that supports the “birth in Kenya” story is there were no witnesses to the supposed marriage between Ann and Obama Sr. They were supposedly married February 2, 1961 on the island of Maui, Hawaii. Also no marriage license has appeared. The only reason we know the date of the “marriage” is because it is mentioned in the divorce records.

Perhaps Ann and Obama Sr. were in Kenya at this time.

Isn’t this a strange story?

[MaGZ]

Only a real ass would continue to repeat a lie.

We have a birth announcement published contemporaneously with his birth in Hawaii.

Racist swine can keep repeating this lie, just like they keep republishing Henry Ford's "The International Jew" and "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion" but repeating the lie does not make a thing true even though that once infamously worked for them by subverting a great nation and allowing the murder of millions of innocents...

Too much coffee this morning, Ben?

[XBoxWarrior]

Another strange thing that supports the “birth in Kenya” story is there were no witnesses to the supposed marriage between Ann and Obama Sr. They were supposedly married February 2, 1961 on the island of Maui, Hawaii. Also no marriage license has appeared. The only reason we know the date of the “marriage” is because it is mentioned in the divorce records.

Perhaps Ann and Obama Sr. were in Kenya at this time.

Isn’t this a strange story?

WOW, just WOW!

Skeptic my ass!

Do you really think the Secret Service folks are as dumb as you?

Come on, this Barack dude isn't applying to clean the toilets in the White House...(Like Joe the Plumber) He will soon be the man sitting in the Oval Office.

Get back to Free Republic where this non-sense will get some positive replies...(emphasis on the lies)

[MaGZ]

WOW, just WOW!

Skeptic my ass!

Do you really think the Secret Service folks are as dumb as you?

Come on, this Barack dude isn't applying to clean the toilets in the White House...(Like Joe the Plumber) He will soon be the man sitting in the Oval Office.

Get back to Free Republic where this non-sense will get some positive replies...(emphasis on the lies)

What would the Secret Service have to do with the question of Obama’s birth?

[XBoxWarrior]

What would the Secret Service have to do with the question of Obama’s birth?

OK...It's kinda my own CT. The Secret Service would NOT allow a foriegn agent to run for the POTUS.

Do you want to argue otherwise?

(should this thread be moved to CT?)

[MaGZ]

OK...It's kinda my own CT. The Secret Service would NOT allow a foriegn agent to run for the POTUS.

Do you want to argue otherwise?

(should this thread be moved to CT?)

No
I do not agree. Candidates for President unlike Vice Presidential candidates are not vetted by government authorities, not by the FBI, CIA, or Secret Service. However this question has nothing to do with Obama’s ideology. It is solely a constitutional question whereas no one can be President of the United States unless they are natural born citizens.

[XBoxWarrior]

No
I do not agree. Candidates for President unlike Vice Presidential candidates are not vetted by government authorities, not by the FBI, CIA, or Secret Service. However this question has nothing to do with Obama’s ideology. It is solely a constitutional question whereas no one can be President of the United States unless they are natural born citizens.

OK, you wanna argue that Obama is a foriegn born candidate?

Show me the proof?

And yes, the SS would NOT allow "Joe the Plumber", from the Ukraine to be the next POTUS. (you do the search, I'm tired)

If not, quit it with this righty talking point.

Is this your last chance grab @ winning?

[Rika]

You think the DNC wouldn't have vetted him? The SS?

[XBoxWarrior]

Great move to the CT......

Nice job mods.

MagZ? do you get it?

[defaultdotxbe]

and john mccain was born in panama, whats your point?

[BenBurch]

Too much coffee this morning, Ben?

No, too many Nazis.

[MaGZ]

It appears Philip J. Berg a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania and a Democrat is filing the lawsuit questioning Obama’s citizenship.

Interesting

http://www.obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-philip-j-berg-esq-files-federal-lawsuit-requesting-obama-be-removed-as-a-candidate-as-he-does-not-meet-the-qualifications-for-president

[SDC]

Well Magz, let me ask the obvious question: is Mr Berg a Jew? Please advise.

[MaGZ]

Well Magz, let me ask the obvious question: is Mr Berg a Jew? Please advise.

The more I look into this it appears the Jews are at the very least pushing this story. Michael Medved gave an interview to Berg. The publication Israel Insider promoted the story.

Why would Jews say such terrible things about Obama?

[MaGZ]

Evidence and allegations

http://tesibria.typepad.com/whats_your_evidence/2008/09/was-obama-born.html

[SDC]

The more I look into this it appears the Jews are at the very least pushing this story. Michael Medved gave an interview to Berg. The publication Israel Insider promoted the story.

Why would Jews say such terrible things about Obama?

Simple evilness? I can think of no other answer.

[Bobert]

MaGZ,
I bet your best friend is black, right?

[parky76]

Another strange thing that supports the “birth in Kenya” story is there were no witnesses to the supposed marriage between Ann and Obama Sr. They were supposedly married February 2, 1961 on the island of Maui, Hawaii. Also no marriage license has appeared. The only reason we know the date of the “marriage” is because it is mentioned in the divorce records.

Perhaps Ann and Obama Sr. were in Kenya at this time.

Isn’t this a strange story?

Only if you are a racist and want to find a pathetic fake excuse to keep a black man from becoming President.

[parky76]

The more I look into this it appears the Jews are at the very least pushing this story. Michael Medved gave an interview to Berg. The publication Israel Insider promoted the story.

Why would Jews say such terrible things about Obama?

"The Jews" are saying these things?

Most of the Jews that I know love Obama. You must be talking about the Jews who don't like him. They make up about 35% of the Jewish American public.

So stop blaiming "the Jews"...k???

[Mancman]

I mentioned this link in a previous thread but decided it should be discussed separately. For now I am a skeptic about this claim.

http://www.colony14.net/id41.html






Ok, lets take your claim as true. Obama was born in Kenya.

My question would be: so what?

Do you get that? So what? Who cares? How does this affect anything?

[parky76]

It doesn't matter one bit. No one cares. Obama will be President and there is nothing the racists and bigots can do about it.

[MaGZ]

Ok, lets take your claim as true. Obama was born in Kenya.

My question would be: so what?

Do you get that? So what? Who cares? How does this affect anything?

I see you are from the UK. Only naturally born US citizens can become President. It is in our constitution.

[MaGZ]

It doesn't matter one bit. No one cares. Obama will be President and there is nothing the racists and bigots can do about it.

If it is proven after and Obama wins the election or after his inauguration this revelation will cause a constitutional crisis.

The media needs to address this issue with Obama to clear this thing up.

[Brainache]

Ok, lets take your claim as true. Obama was born in Kenya.

My question would be: so what?

Do you get that? So what? Who cares? How does this affect anything?

I think it's because the yanks have a rule written down a few hundred years ago about the President having to be born in the US. They don't want some Johnny Foreigner running the show.

Sometimes I wish we had a similar rule here in Australia. Our head of state lives on the other side of the world!

[Bobert]

Googling "Obama was not born in the US?" reveals that the only ones supporting these are sites such as www.whitecivilrights.com (http://www.whitecivilrights.com)

[dtugg]

Obama was born in Hawaii. He has produced his birth certificate, they even put it on his website. Get over it, Nazi.

[dudalb]

No, too many Nazis.

I think I will let Jack Kirby do my follow up:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_188404831d9f55208f.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=12253)

[dudalb]

Ok, lets take your claim as true. Obama was born in Kenya.

My question would be: so what?

Do you get that? So what? Who cares? How does this affect anything?


Only People born in the US, or born outside the US to a US Citizen, can be President. Immigrants are barred from the office. This is why Arnie was not a GOP contender for the Presidency this year,although in terms of popularity ,he certainly ranked above a number of the GOP contenders.

[Alareth]

Even if Obama was born in Kenya, he's a natural US citizen because his mother is a US citizen.

The physical location of the birth is irrelevant.

The entire arguement is moot.

[Ausmerican]

So MaGZ this is gonna be a tough one for you. Pick a side: The Jews or the Black guy, which is it gonna be?

[dtugg]

So MaGZ this is gonna be a tough one for you. Pick a side: The Jews or the Black guy, which is it gonna be?

LOL. It will be a very bad day indeed for that Nazi if (when?) Obama wins.

[negativ]

So MaGZ this is gonna be a tough one for you. Pick a side: The Jews or the Black guy, which is it gonna be?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/659448faa9479a0bf.jpg

[PhantomWolf]

The silly thing is that it doesn't matter one way or the other. A child born to a US Citizen overseas is still a US citizen and eligible to run for President. His mother was a US citizen so regardless of if he was born in the US, Kenya or Timbuctoo, he's still a US citizen and able to run.

[Smackety]

MaGz - do you doubt Obama's mother was a citizen? Unless the answer is yes, what is your point?

[Hokulele]

Another strange thing that supports the “birth in Kenya” story is there were no witnesses to the supposed marriage between Ann and Obama Sr. They were supposedly married February 2, 1961 on the island of Maui, Hawaii. Also no marriage license has appeared. The only reason we know the date of the “marriage” is because it is mentioned in the divorce records.


Regarding the birth certificate and marriage license issues, get yourself a money order for $23 and knock yourself out*.

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html




* - Note to the mods, "knock yourself out" is an American colloquialism, and is not meant to be taken literally.

[defaultdotxbe]

The silly thing is that it doesn't matter one way or the other. A child born to a US Citizen overseas is still a US citizen and eligible to run for President. His mother was a US citizen so regardless of if he was born in the US, Kenya or Timbuctoo, he's still a US citizen and able to run.
the constitution is vague on how it defines "natural born citizen" but you are correct, a child born of a US citizen overseas (even if onely 1 parent is a citizen) is still a US citizen and i suspect the only "constitutional crisis" that would result is a clarification by the supreme court that recognizes obama's eligibility for the presidency

as i mentioned previously, john mccain was born in panama, in the canal zone, of US parents, and no one questions his elegibility for the presidency

[fromdownunder]

as i mentioned previously, john mccain was born in panama, in the canal zone, of US parents, and no one questions his elegibility for the presidency

Since the Canal Zone was leased by the USA from the Panama Government at the time of McCain's birth, wouldn't that have made the Canal Zone USA property at the time?

Norm

[Smackety]

no, it was a lease.

[RedIbis]

Only a real ass would continue to repeat a lie.

We have a birth announcement published contemporaneously with his birth in Hawaii.

Racist swine can keep repeating this lie, just like they keep republishing Henry Ford's "The International Jew" and "The Protocols of The Elders Of Zion" but repeating the lie does not make a thing true even though that once infamously worked for them by subverting a great nation and allowing the murder of millions of innocents...

Just out of curiosity, why are you comparing those two texts? The Protocols is a historic hoax, "The International Jew" is not. Ford did publish those racist tracts. Maybe I'm misunderstanding. Are you suggesting otherwise?

[sleepy_lioness]

No need to pay the Hawaii government - all the relevant documents are here:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[CptColumbo]

Did you know there are four Presidents of the United States not buried in a cemetary within the USA?


James Carter, George H. W. Bush, William Clinton and George W. Bush. :)

[dudalb]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/659448faa9479a0bf.jpg

Damn. Beat me to it.

[dudalb]

Since the Canal Zone was leased by the USA from the Panama Government at the time of McCain's birth, wouldn't that have made the Canal Zone USA property at the time?

Norm

Because both his parents were US Citizens, the point is moot.
There are some pecularaties about US law on citizenship.
Nicole Kidman, although both her parents were Aussies and not US Citizens, is eligible to vote in US elections because she was born in Hawaii when her mother gave birth prematurly when they were on vacation.

[moon1969]

Robert Byrd is still supporting Obama no matter what.

[defaultdotxbe]

Birth within the United States

Main article: Birthright citizenship in the United States of America (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States_of_Ame rica)
The Supreme Court has never explicitly ruled on whether children born in the United States to illegal immigrant parents are entitled to birthright citizenship via the 14th Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitu tion),[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#cite_note-heritage-1) although it has generally been assumed that they are.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#cite_note-2). This has become controversial, as some non-residents enter the US as illegal aliens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States) with the intent to give birth to children. A birth certificate is considered evidence of citizenship. This differs from most western nations; countries of the European Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union) which awarded citizenship to children born there (such as Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland)) closed this possibility.
In the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark), 169 U.S. 649 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=169&page=649) (1898), the Supreme Court ruled that a person who


is born in the United States
of parents who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of a foreign power
whose parents have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States
whose parents are there carrying on business and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity of the foreign power to which they are subject

becomes, at the time of his birth, a citizen of the United States, by virtue of the first clause of the 14th amendment of the Constitution.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_nationality_law&action=edit&section=6)] Through birth abroad to two United States citizens

See also: jus sanguinis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis) In most cases, one is a U.S. citizen if both of the following are true:


Both parents were U.S. citizens at the time of the child's birth
At least one parent lived in the United States prior to the child's birth.

INA 301(c) and INA 301(a)(3) state, "and one of whom has had a residence." The FAM (Foreign Affairs Manual) states "no amount of time specified."
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. He or she may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have his or her citizenship recognized.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States_nationality_law&action=edit&section=7)] Through birth abroad to one United States citizen

For persons born on or after November 14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_14), 1986 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986), a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#cite_note-3)


One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born;
The citizen parent lived at least 5 years in the United States before his or her child's birth; and
At least 2 of these 5 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.

A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. Such a person may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have a record of his or her citizenship. Such documentation is often useful to prove citizenship in lieu of the availability of an American birth certificate.
Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law as it existed at the time of the individual's birth controls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_nationality_law#Birth_within_the_Uni ted_States

mccain fits number 2, if obama was born in hawaii he fits #1, if he was born in kenya he probably still fits #2 or whatever version of #3 was in effect at the time

[gtc]

Did you know there are four Presidents of the United States not buried in a cemetary within the USA?

This must be fixed at once!

[lee5]

MaGz - do you doubt Obama's mother was a citizen? Unless the answer is yes, what is your point?

He is just trying to keep his CT mind churning more CT's. Thats what they do. They feed off them.

[Minadin]

So the supposition is:

I see you are from the UK. Only naturally born US citizens can become President. It is in our constitution.

And reality is:

Only People born in the US, or born outside the US to a US Citizen, can be President. Immigrants are barred from the office. This is why Arnie was not a GOP contender for the Presidency this year,although in terms of popularity ,he certainly ranked above a number of the GOP contenders.

Even if Obama was born in Kenya, he's a natural US citizen because his mother is a US citizen.

The physical location of the birth is irrelevant.

The entire arguement is moot.

The silly thing is that it doesn't matter one way or the other. A child born to a US Citizen overseas is still a US citizen and eligible to run for President. His mother was a US citizen so regardless of if he was born in the US, Kenya or Timbuctoo, he's still a US citizen and able to run.

the constitution is vague on how it defines "natural born citizen" but you are correct, a child born of a US citizen overseas (even if onely 1 parent is a citizen) is still a US citizen and i suspect the only "constitutional crisis" that would result is a clarification by the supreme court that recognizes obama's eligibility for the presidency

as i mentioned previously, john mccain was born in panama, in the canal zone, of US parents, and no one questions his elegibility for the presidency

I was just about to post basically what everyone else did in response. It's a good thing I scrolled down.

But thanks, MaGZ, for illustrating how poorly informed assumptions, as is often the case with many wrong-headed ideas, such as racism, can lead us to make a big deal out of nothing.

There's not even any need to debunk this, since even if it's true, it wouldn't matter.

P.S. There are plently of idea / policy reasons why someone might prefer not to vote for Obama. Why don't we focus on these instead of things like "His middle name is Hussein!" or "Did you notice he's partly black? Maybe he was born in Africa." That way threads like this can stay in the Politics sub-forum. Those types of things, whether true or not, are simply ad-hominen attacks like the ones used all over the internet, and they're not all that effective. Thanks.

[Bobert]

huh where on earth did MAG go?
I mean he wouldnt stir the pot then just run off would he?

[Cuddles]

OK, so the thread's over, but I can't help commenting on this bit:
It is unclear why that story, if it is true, did not get “traction.”

I just love it, the CT mind in a nutshell:

1. If the story is true, it would have been publicised.
2. It wasn't publicised.
C. It's a conspiracy.

[Chaos]

He is just trying to keep his CT mind churning more CT's. Thats what they do. They feed off them.

Next he´s going to tell us that some people somewhere with even less of a clue than he has are rumored to be speculating that it could theoretically be possible that it is within the realm of the only-relatively-moderately-impossible that Obama´s mother might not be a US citizen either. And wouldn´t that TOTALLY mean Obama is not fit to be president?

[jhunter1163]

Even if Obama were later found to be ineligible (which he won't be but humor me here), no constitutional crisis. Biden becomes president. End of story.

[HawksFan]

Or, if before the election, the DNC calls an emergency convention and nominates another candidate (most likely Hillary).

[Praktik]

as i mentioned previously, john mccain was born in panama, in the canal zone, of US parents, and no one questions his elegibility for the presidency

Don't you mean Sidney McCain?

;)

[CurtC]

Did you know there are four Presidents of the United States not buried in a cemetary within the USA?

When I first heard that riddle, it was "did you know there is only one former President of the US not buried on US soil?"

[TheDeeMan]

He is just trying to keep his CT mind churning more CT's. Thats what they do. They feed off them.

Seems that way. I mean--WOW!

Dee

[Hans]

How long will it be until MaGZ comes up with the CT that BHO is really Jewish? Any bets?

[PhantomWolf]

When I first heard that riddle, it was "did you know there is only one former President of the US not buried on US soil?"

Washington?

[CurtC]

Washington?

:) Nice.

Actually, it was when Ford was President, and Nixon was the only living former President.


ETA: Who put a thumbs-down icon on my post? It wasn't me.

[jberryhill]

as i mentioned previously, john mccain was born in panama, in the canal zone, of US parents, and no one questions his elegibility for the presidency

John McCain was not born in the canal zone. The hospital at Coco Solo base wasn't built until 1941.

He was born in a civilian hospital in Colon, which was a carve-out from the Zone.

http://images.quickblogcast.com/96531-89184/mccain_birth.jpg

[NobbyNobbs]

If Obama wasn't eligible, I'd think that the McCain campaign would be the first to point it out. They haven't, ergo, he's ok.

This is remarkably similar to the Russians not pointing out that the US moon shot was a hoax. They didn't, because it wasn't.

[CurtC]

http://images.quickblogcast.com/96531-89184/mccain_birth.jpg

Hmmmm - why are the two places where it says "U S A" so much sharper than any other lettering?

[Praktik]

because its a FAKE!!

[Brainache]

Well he wouldn't be the first politician to come out of a colon.

[sol invictus]

If it is proven after and Obama wins the election or after his inauguration this revelation will cause a constitutional crisis.

The media needs to address this issue with Obama to clear this thing up.

As others have pointed out, you're utterly wrong.

The wording in the Constitution is generally accepted to mean "born a US citizen", not "born on US soil". If one were to adopt the second interpretation, McCain would be ineligible and Obama would not be (since he was in fact born in the US).

Are you sure you want to push this?

[doctoraudit]

If I read the US constitution right, (and if I am wrong please correct me) the question of whether or not a particular person is eligible is a matter for Congress to decide when they count the electoral votes in January. Courts do not have juridiction.

The liklihood of this happening zero. Mccain and Obama are both eligible.

[defaultdotxbe]

If I read the US constitution right, (and if I am wrong please correct me) the question of whether or not a particular person is eligible is a matter for Congress to decide when they count the electoral votes in January. Courts do not have juridiction.

The liklihood of this happening zero. Mccain and Obama are both eligible.
i think the matter of eligibility would fall to the supreme court, as its their job to decide how the constitution is interpreted (IE whether those born outside US borders but to US parents qualify as natural born citizens)

[rmcc4444]

I'm not sure how much water this holds, however, why won't Obama release his college records? Thats the only thing that makes me suspicious.

[doctoraudit]

[QUOTE=defaultdotxbe;4153988]i think the matter of eligibility would fall to the supreme court, as its their job to decide how the constitution is interpreted (IE whether those born outside US borders but to US parents qualify as natural born citizens)[/QUOte

But who has standing to bring it to the Supreme Court?

[Walter Ego]

Will we still be dealing with crap like this after the election?

Sadly, we probably will... :(

[CptColumbo]

Will we still be dealing with crap like this after the election?

Sadly, we probably will... :(

IIRC there were/are people who dispute Bush/Cheney eligibility due to them living in the same state at the time of the 2000 election. Even though their "official residences" are elsewhere.

[Angus McPresley]

I have a kooky neocon acquaintance, who has been updating his Facebook status to say "[his name] wonders when Obama is going to release his birth certificate" every other day. He's also posting all kind of links to the court case that's trying to force Obama to show his birth certificate. (FYI, it's just been appealed to the Supreme Court (http://www.americasright.com/2008/10/lawsuit-against-obama-dismissed-from.html) (his link), after a lower court rejected the authority of the people asking.)

Amazing how worked up this guy is. Of course he has presented no evidence of his own -- he just asserts that the birth certificate the Obama camp has presented is fake, because it's "shiny" and "looks computer-generated".

If the Obama camp actually cares about this tempest in a teacup, which I doubt, then they're doing the absolutely correct thing by not responding at all -- you can't argue with conspiracy theorists. Whatever evidence you provide will not be good enough.

And, I suspect, Obama has more important things to worry about right now...

[CptColumbo]

I have a kooky neocon acquaintance, who has been updating his Facebook status to say "[his name] wonders when Obama is going to release his birth certificate" every other day. He's also posting all kind of links to the court case that's trying to force Obama to show his birth certificate. (FYI, it's just been appealed to the Supreme Court (http://www.americasright.com/2008/10/lawsuit-against-obama-dismissed-from.html) (his link), after a lower court rejected the authority of the people asking.)

How dare the court question the credibility of "Inside Edition!"

[Jeff Corey]

Hmmmm - why are the two places where it says "U S A" so much sharper than any other lettering?

Different font, too. Look at the capital As.

[Minadin]

It looks like USA was written over something that's faded out - especially noticeable in the Mother's Lugar de Nacimiento line - it might say something like 'Alabama' or 'Panama' - it's very difficult to tell.

My thought is that perhaps they had the things pre-printed at the hospital to save time and had to erase the mother and father's place of birth in this case.

[Beerina]

No
I do not agree. Candidates for President unlike Vice Presidential candidates are not vetted by government authorities, not by the FBI, CIA, or Secret Service. However this question has nothing to do with Obama’s ideology. It is solely a constitutional question whereas no one can be President of the United States unless they are natural born citizens.

...or a citizen of one of the several states prior to the formation of the United States. But there aren't too many of those left. :)

[Beerina]

Even if Obama was born in Kenya, he's a natural US citizen because his mother is a US citizen.

The physical location of the birth is irrelevant.

The entire arguement is moot.

I thought only the military got a pass on their children being born overseas "still counting", not the population in general.

[CptColumbo]

...or a citizen of one of the several states prior to the formation of the United States. But there aren't too many of those left. :)
and would you really want a 220+ year old as a president? There are people worried about McCain's age and he can't be more that 100, but AFAIK he's still younger than Ron Paul. :)

[defaultdotxbe]

i think the matter of eligibility would fall to the supreme court, as its their job to decide how the constitution is interpreted (IE whether those born outside US borders but to US parents qualify as natural born citizens)

But who has standing to bring it to the Supreme Court?
if its a matter of interpreting the constitution its automatically the supreme courts jurisdiction

i dont know for sure if it will be a constitutional matter right away, but magz said it would be a constitutional crisis, if thats so the supreme court would have to resolve it

[PhantomWolf]

I thought only the military got a pass on their children being born overseas "still counting", not the population in general.

Well apparently at the time the law was that if the mother was married to a non-US Citizen, but was one herself, that as long as she had lived in the US for 10 years, 5 after the age of 14, then the child would be a US Citizen. Barrak's mother was only 18 so the argument is that if he was born in Kenya she hadn't lived in the US for the 5 years after 14 for him to claim US Citizenship.

This is still irrelevant though because the birth certificate is genuine (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

[Arus808]

gyah.... Coast to Coast had Phil Berg on.. and I wanted to fire off this email to George Noory (yes I listen to C2C, but more for entertainment than taking it seriously).

My email to GN, but I decided not to send it:



Phillip Berg is an idiot. He shows that he is very ignorant on his claims, and that his "challenge" to Obama's Birth Certificate, shows that he hasn't DONE any of his own research.


I was born and raised in Hawaii for 30 years, and I had to get a copy of my birth certificate, so that I could apply for documents when I moved to California. My parents lost my original Birth Certificate because of moving to several states prior to settling in Hawaii for good. So I had to get a duplicate.

My birth certificate is THE same as the ONE on Obama's site, and when scanned, the embossed seal barely shows up (this happens when the embossing stamp is applied incorrectly, or not HARD enough).

As to the "blacked out" number - an official simply took the image into a graphics program and blocked it out (photoshop gurus could do this in their sleep). Once questioned, why it was blocked out, the official for Obama's campagin thought that the number had some significance. They later learned that it had no meaning, and provided a FULL scan to several websites that asked for it.

The Honolu Advertiser isn't a "neighborhood" newspaper. Its a FULL newspaper, that has a readership of over 140,000 readers. "Neighborhood" paper, my behind. Its one of two MAJOR newspapers, the other being The Star Bulletin.

Yes, if you compare the Advertiser to something like LA times it can be a "neighborhood" paper.


Advertisers article on Obama's certificate:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081101/NEWS05/811010345/1001/localnewsfront


Pertaining to the announcement of births; the birth announcements ONLY has announcements that have to deal with births in HAWAII, on any of major islands. I've had relatives that have worked for both newspapers (for a time, they shared the same building in downtown Honolulu) and never did they report any births that were out of state. The newspapers would get their information from the VITAL STATISTICS OFFICE, that are obtained by local hospitals.

This is backed by the very blog that found the Advertiser announcement:
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/obama-was-likely-born-in-hawaii/ - This is a pro-Hillary site, and many participants are not fans in Obama, but when a real researcher does what they are supposed to do, to get the information, and provide evidence, they will admit they were wrong.
Scroll down, to see a post by Lori about how HAWAII handled announcements in their newspapers concerning birth announcements - comment from Lori (#82) shows what a REAL researcher does to find the truth.


BTW, Barack Obama was born at Kapi’olani Medical Center for Women and Children - so why hasn't Phil Berg attempted to contact the hospital That Obama was born at to confirm the report that they sent to Vital Statistics?

Why must Barack Obama answer to someone who hasn't attempted to do anything?

PHIL BERG HAS NOT ATTEMPTED TO DO THIS AT ALL!

All this hub-bub about him producing his original BC and hasn't done so could be summed up with this: his parents or he himself could have lost the document. How many places has his parents moved to? In all those years, can you not think that a piece of paper could have been lost?

The BC provided by the State of Hawaii, was proven authentic, and can be used to establish citizenship, obtain legal documents, identification (passport, Drivers License, etc), and has been verified by the Elections Committee as being authentic and can be used as such.

Factcheck.org WENT to look at the Birth Certificate and confirmed the embossed seal, and posted the certificate number. Phil Berg, excuses this simply because of who "runs" the website. That is a pure Ad Hom fallacy on his part. HAS he bothered to visit Obama's campaign office to take a look at the Certificate himself?

Factcheck.org's findings was backed up by Politifact.com:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth-certificate-part-ii/


Phil Berg, is pretty much telling everyone, in Hawaii, who has gotten a duplicate certificate of Birth that they wasted their $23 to obtain one, because by his stupid logic, that they are all forged and not authentic.


Phil Berg is nothing more than another scummy lawyer, looking to make his next 15 minutes of fame.





Phil Berg disgusts me to no end.

[Zep]

I would have thought that if Obama was not eligible to stand, he wouldn't have got this far. He would have been scratched right at the party nomination stage, surely.

[Travis]

I increased the contrast and lowered the color channel constant in monochrome to enhance the McCain certificate. I've circled what seems to be some faded writing on it in the fields where "USA" seems to have been added later.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3179/2999300008_9dca462a02_o.jpg
Now I've blown up that region for a better look and the mothers field seems to say "homa" which I would guess is just the last bit of "Oklahoma." At first I thought it was an "hama" or "bama" but the first "a" looks like it is just an "o" with the paper texture through it.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2999300284_f08ee17b67_o.jpg
Now I've superimposed "Oklahoma" on there in a Serif font and it seems to match up perfectly.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/2998460925_2b84bab307_o.jpg

Was his mom born in Oklahoma?

[Brainache]

I would have thought that if Obama was not eligible to stand, he wouldn't have got this far. He would have been scratched right at the party nomination stage, surely.

But those Democrats are no match for the sleuthing skills of a couple of redneck skinheads...

[Zep]

What's Spanish for "United States of America"? And for "Oklahoma"? If it has been changed, I suspect it was due to translations, and/or Spannisch speling orrers.

[Mitchell314]

What's Spanish for "United States of America"? And for "Oklahoma"? If it has been changed, I suspect it was due to translations, and/or Spannisch speling orrers.

EEUU for the US.

[CurtC]

Was his mom born in Oklahoma?

Good job on finding that - his mom was born in Muskogee, OK, according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_McCain).

However, in your scan, it clearly looks like the letter "a" just before the "m", not an "o". I was thinking that Alabama fit much better. It looks like:

*a?ama

Which fits Alabama, but not Oklahoma.

Doesn't it look like the "USA" was added digitally? If so, why?

[Travis]

Good job on finding that - his mom was born in Muskogee, OK, according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_McCain).

However, in your scan, it clearly looks like the letter "a" just before the "m", not an "o". I was thinking that Alabama fit much better. It looks like:

*a?ama

Which fits Alabama, but not Oklahoma.

Doesn't it look like the "USA" was added digitally? If so, why?

I'm not sure why it would read "Alabama" if she wasn't born there. Perhaps it had "Panama" on there already, like a pre-filled form, that had to be removed or typed over.

[Legalduck]

Well apparently at the time the law was that if the mother was married to a non-US Citizen, but was one herself, that as long as she had lived in the US for 10 years, 5 after the age of 14, then the child would be a US Citizen. Barrak's mother was only 18 so the argument is that if he was born in Kenya she hadn't lived in the US for the 5 years after 14 for him to claim US Citizenship.

PhantomWolf hit the nail on the head. Transmission of citizenship under US law is no where as simple as "one parent is a USC so the child is." The Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) uses several different statutes for several different situations (INA 301, 309, 320, 321). These laws have changed numerous times, and, by case law, the statute in effect at the time of the child's birth is used to determine citizenship (exceptions for 320 and 321 which can deal with a parent naturalizing after the child's birth). The requirement can change based on being born in or out of wedlock, being legitimated, etc. Its a legal nightmare figuring out which provision applies. In some cases, both parents need to be USCs to transmit citizenship.

The section noted by PhantomWolf is a prior version of INA 301(g). The current version is much more forgiving (USC parent needs 5 years in the US, 2 of which after age 14).

Of course, 301(g) only applies to people born outside the United States. As Obama was born inside the US, its a moot point.

[defaultdotxbe]

I'm not sure why it would read "Alabama" if she wasn't born there. Perhaps it had "Panama" on there already, like a pre-filled form, that had to be removed or typed over.
under fathers birthplace i can make out an S and an A, his father was born in Council Bluffs, Iowa which seems to fit with the spacing

[Travis]

under fathers birthplace i can make out an S and an A, his father was born in Council Bluffs, Iowa which seems to fit with the spacing

Yeah, that makes sense. My guess is that the reason the "USA's" were added later was just to clarify since the original copy had faded over time.

[cwalner]

What's Spanish for "United States of America"? And for "Oklahoma"? If it has been changed, I suspect it was due to translations, and/or Spannisch speling orrers.

As Mitchell said EEUU is the abreviation for US It stands for Estados Unidos (in Spanish an abbreviation is doubled to indicate it abreviating a plural).

As for the names of the individual US states, most are spelled exactly the same. The possible differences are actualy two of the states with Spanish names, Texas and New Mexico (possibly Tejas or Nueva Mejico) or states with New, East, West, etc in front of them. Since none of these apply to the states in question (Both Oklahoma and Iowa would be spelled the same) this is probably not an issue with the BC

[Minadin]

Good job on finding that - his mom was born in Muskogee, OK, according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberta_McCain).

However, in your scan, it clearly looks like the letter "a" just before the "m", not an "o". I was thinking that Alabama fit much better. It looks like:

*a?ama

Which fits Alabama, but not Oklahoma.

Doesn't it look like the "USA" was added digitally? If so, why?


*a?ama also fits "Panama".

It's quite possible that the birth certificates in Colon, Panama, were pre-filled out to some extent and that in the (rare, I assume) case of foreigners giving birth at that hospital, they simply tried to rub out the incorrect information. If that's the case, it's entirely possible, and I would say probable, that they used a different typewriter to fill in the correct information, which would account for the difference in font and clarity.

[CurtC]

*a?ama also fits "Panama".

I completely agree. On looking at it again, I even see the "n" between the two "a"s.

[skepticalcriticalguy]

Phil Berg also represented Ellen Mariani, the 9/11 widow, in her lawsuit against the gubmint.


It appears Philip J. Berg a former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania and a Democrat is filing the lawsuit questioning Obama’s citizenship.

Interesting

http://www.obamacrimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/1-philip-j-berg-esq-files-federal-lawsuit-requesting-obama-be-removed-as-a-candidate-as-he-does-not-meet-the-qualifications-for-president

[Arus808]

so he is used to filing frivolent lawsuits, like he did, by taking advantage of a 911 victim.

[defaultdotxbe]

Philip J. Berg is also the only person i know of who uses the suffix "Esquire"

not counting Bill S. Preston, of course

[tomwaits]

Alan Keyes files a lawsuit alleging Obama is not a US citizen (http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html)

This maroon was laughed out of Illinois back in the US senate elections, and now he continues to make a fool out of himself. He's basically an example of how crippled the Republican party is in Illinois. Their first choice for senate was Mike Ditka, but when he backed out, they essentially got the first black man they could find that would be willing to call himself a Republican. Needless to say, it did not turn out well.

[parky76]

so dumb

[CORed]

I think it's because the yanks have a rule written down a few hundred years ago about the President having to be born in the US. They don't want some Johnny Foreigner running the show.

Sometimes I wish we had a similar rule here in Australia. Our head of state lives on the other side of the world!

Yes, we Americans take our written Constitution pretty seriously. I think this is a Good Thing, but that is certainly a debatable point. It sets pretty stiff requirements for President, among them that he (or she) is a "natural born citizen". However, that term is not precisely defined, and as far as I know, being a "natural born citizen" is not a requirement for anything other than serving as president or vice president, so there is little or no case law defining exactly what that term means.

It is generally accepted that being born within the US qualifies. However the first several presidents (I'm too lazy to look up which) were not born in the US, because it didn't exist when they were born. I believe however, that those presidents were all born within the British colonies that became the US. It is also accepted that someone born out of the country to two American parents is a "natural born citizen". This applies to McCain. It is not clear whether being born overseas to one American parent qualifies or not, but since Obama's mother is an American citizen, it might not matter even if Obama was born in Kenya. However, the "evidence" offered that Obama was born in Kenya is shaky, to put it mildly, while the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is pretty solid.