Palin on SNL

[FaisonMars]

Given the way Tina Fey has trashed Palin (even not as a character), I doubted they would actually appear together... instead they passed each other as Fey walked off the set.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/18/sarah-palin-on-snl-with-t_n_135887.html

I thought her appearance was rather weak-- there really wasn't any self-deprecation or anything to take away the sting of the previous skits (esp. the Katie Couric interview parody). But, kudos to her for going on.

It seems like when they have people on whom they've really lashed, the only way it can happen is if they appear outside the "4th wall" with Lorne Michaels.

[RandFan]

Kudos to Palin.

I liked Fey but I don't have a lot of respect for her anymore. For some it's not enough to simply disagree with someone. Fey clearly has nothing but contempt for Palin simply because she disagrees with her politics. It's this kind of hypocracy that turns me off of the left. They claim to be tolerant and accepting of different points of views but it's largely BS.

I don't care for Palin's religion or her views on abortion and I certainly don't think she's qualified to be VP but I don't see hating someone or having a strong negative emotional feelings toward someone simply for ideological views.

[Oliver]

She didn't look as if she was amused about the sketch. Which
brings us to an even sadder conclusion:

1. Vice President
2. Speaker in Church
3. Clown on SNL

[RandFan]

She didn't look as if she was amused about the sketch. Which
brings us to an even sadder conclusion:

1. Vice President
2. Speaker in Church
3. Clown on SNLTrue, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be. :D

You know it's true.

[Oliver]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be. :D

You know it's true.


Of course it's true - but who wants to be humiliated like
Sarah Palin in the last view Weeks anyway? ;)

ETA: The criticism and mockery Bush got in 8 years, she received in less than 8 days.

[FaisonMars]

Her candidacy is a joke. The Fey skits are so funny in part because they are often based on verbatim comments from Palin... not made up personal attacks or "contempt." As long as Palin stays on the ticket, she's fair game.

Actually, I think that Palin wanting to be on SNL this week has kind of kept the Fey character going... after the mock VP debate skit two weeks ago, it looked like the character was heading for retirement.

[FaisonMars]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be. :D

You know it's true.

She has run a marathon, had 5 kids, and shot wolves from an airplane, none of which I will ever be able to do.

However, I understand and respect science, which seems to be more than she will ever be able to do.

[RandFan]

ETA: The criticism and mockery Bush got in 8 years, she received in less than 8 days. Oh god, I wouldn't want it but most people would give their left arm for that.

[RandFan]

Her candidacy is a joke. The Fey skits are so funny in part because they are often based on verbatim comments from Palin... not made up personal attacks or "contempt." As long as Palin stays on the ticket, she's fair game. I'm talking about Fey's behavior off the set. Her contempt is quite open.

Actually, I think that Palin wanting to be on SNL this week has kind of kept the Fey character going... after the mock VP debate skit two weeks ago, it looked like the character was heading for retirement.Oh hell no. The ratings are always through the roof. Retirement would simply because Fey doesn't want to do the impersonation. Which in all honesty is dead on and damn funny. I grant you everything you say as to why the skits are good but they are also good because Palin is genuinely liked. It's taken some major negative news as Oliver has pointed out to take the bloom of the rose. Not that Palin doesn't deserve much of the negative press.

[RandFan]

She has run a marathon, had 5 kids, and shot wolves from an airplane, none of which I will ever be able to do.

However, I understand and respect science, which seems to be more than she will ever be able to do.I would take an understanding and respect of science over everything Palin has also. I'm not sure that means much though. I wouldn't say that she will never be able to but it's unlikely she will change which puts her into the shoes of most people.

[Oliver]

I would take an understanding and respect of science over everything Palin has also. I'm not sure that means much though. I wouldn't say that she will never be able to but it's unlikely she will change which puts her into the shoes of most people.


Maybe she should think about a career as a singer:

9nlwwFZdXck

[NorfolkAtheist]

I thought the opening skit was funny. Palin wasn't particularly funny, but I give her a lot of credit for going on.

I liked Fey but I don't have a lot of respect for her anymore. For some it's not enough to simply disagree with someone. Fey clearly has nothing but contempt for Palin simply because she disagrees with her politics. It's this kind of hypocracy that turns me off of the left. They claim to be tolerant and accepting of different points of views but it's largely BS.

I don't know much about Fey personally, has she said that she hates Palin or is this just your impression of her feelings based on her acting performance on a sketch-comedy television show? Has she said that she is tolerant of the views that Palin holds? Most of the liberals I know personally do not claim to have unbounded tolerance (e.g. most feel tolerance of intolerance is silly, tolerance of).

I don't care for Palin's religion or her views on abortion and I certainly don't think she's qualified to be VP but I don't see hating someone or having a strong negative emotional feelings toward someone simply for ideological views.

This is your personal opinion and I have no problem with it (although I'm not certain I share it), but I'd like to see evidence for your charge that Fey is being hypocritical for harboring alleged hatred for Palin. Like I said, I don't know much about Fey's personal views so any links to her saying she hates Palin and/or that she is tolerant of the views that Palin holds would be appreciated.

[JoeTheJuggler]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be. :D

You know it's true.

I'm not sure if that was meant as a joke or not, but I utterly disagree if it was meant seriously.

I don't think financial/political success and ambition in any way makes one person "more" than another person.

[RandFan]

I don't know much about Fey personally, has she said that she hates Palin or is this just your impression of her feelings based on her acting performance on a sketch-comedy television show? No. I saw Fey on TV making some disparaging remarks about her.

Has she said that she is tolerant of the views that Palin holds? I couldn't care less about her tolerance or intolerance of views. Of course, some people use this as a convenient scape goat. Christians are found of saying that they love the sinner but hate the sin. So they are not intolerant of homosexuals they are intolerant of the "lifestyle". It's BS and one can just as easily be intolerant only of Palin's views.

Most of the liberals I know personally do not claim to have unbounded tolerance (e.g. most feel tolerance of intolerance is silly, tolerance of). See above.

This is your personal opinion and I have no problem with it (although I'm not certain I share it), but I'd like to see evidence for your charge that Fey is being hypocritical for harboring alleged hatred for Palin. Like I said, I don't know much about Fey's personal views so any links to her saying she hates Palin and/or that she is tolerant of the views that Palin holds would be appreciated. I don't think Fey hates Palin. I think she has contempt for her. She wouldn't sit down and have a drink or conversation with her (as I understand).

I can't find a link at the moment for the remarks Fey made. I honestly thought they were well known. If I do find them I'll post them. Sorry.

[RandFan]

I'm not sure if that was meant as a joke or not, but I utterly disagree if it was meant seriously.I think you need to go back and see the context it was given in. I was responding to Olivers remarks that she was a failure in 3 areas. If we are consistent and follow Olivers premise to it's logical conclusion then most of us are failures.

Happily I don't agree that just because Palin has failed at anything is really proof of anything, and apparently neither do you or Oliver.

[NorfolkAtheist]

I couldn't care less about her tolerance or intolerance of views. Of course, some people use this as a convenient scape goat. Christians are found of saying that they love the sinner but hate the sin. So they are not intolerant of homosexuals they are intolerant of the "lifestyle". It's BS.

But it would seem that her tolerances are crucial in establishing hypocrisy. If, for instance, Fey claimed to be intolerant of anti-abortion views and intolerant of Palin for having such views, would Fey be hypocritical? I'd say no.

I can't find a link at the moment for the remarks Fey made. I honestly thought they were well known. If I do find them I'll post them. Sorry.

They might be well known, I don't follow celebrity stuff closely so I could easily miss them. I've seen her skits, but not her interviews. Looking at her wikipedia entry, I see she has said a few times that she doesn't want to, and will not, play Palin beyond Nov. 5th. I don't find it hard to believe that she strongly dislikes Palin, I'm just not yet convinced she's being hypocritical (but I'm prepared to be convinced with the right evidence).

[FaisonMars]

Tina Fey was on Leno recently and talked about how she came up with the accent as well as how she started with the actual transcript of the Couric interview to work with the SNL writers on the 2nd skit. It's clear she's not a fan. Which shouldn't be surprising.

But, regardless of what she thinks of Palin, her Palin character is so funny because its a spot-on, classic political caricature. She takes clearly recognizable features of Palin and exaggerates them for humorous effect. And she's really good at it.

[RandFan]

But it would seem that her tolerances are crucial in establishing hypocrisy. If, for instance, Fey claimed to be intolerant of anti-abortion views and intolerant of Palin for having such views, would Fey be hypocritical? I'd say no. Oh, well, that's a breath of honesty. Thank you. Sincerely.

Hmmmm.....

I've always found the left wanting tolerance for different opinions. Am I wrong? The word "divisive" is bandied about by folks on the left a lot of late. The political right is often criticized for polemical rhetoric.

So, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You are saying it is appropriate to dislike people simply for their views? Also, that tolerance for people regardless of their ideology isn't a liberal virtue, right? Do you think this stuff about working together to solve problems is nonsense? Do you have contempt for people simply because that person has views that you disagree with?

Please believe me that I only want to understand your POV. I wasn't expecting your response and I'm wondering if my close associates and friends who are liberal are off or if I just missed the point. It's not beyond me. :)

[Oliver]

She takes clearly recognizable features of Palin and exaggerates them for humorous effect.


Either that or she's actually just trying to copy her one-to-one. :)

[FaisonMars]

I've always found the left wanting tolerance for different opinions. Am I wrong? The word "divisive" is bandied about by folks on the left a lot of late. The political right is often criticized for polemical rhetoric.


I find the comparison between Fox News and NPR quite stark in terms of tolerance of different opinions.

I heard a conservative pundit on the radio today saying that Obama would turn the country into a "campus," in that it would become an excessively "PC" environment, with people "afraid to say what they think for fear of offending someone." I couldn't disagree more with this assessment of the the tenor of discourse on most campuses-- it was in college that I learned about fighting bad speech with more good speech, not with censorship.

[Smackety]

Tolerance does not mean being tolerant of intolerance.

[NorfolkAtheist]

So, I don't want to put words in your mouth. You are saying it is appropriate to dislike people simply for their views?

I find personal reactions to other people can be a very fickle thing, and I don't think disliking someone for virtually any reason is necessarily inappropriate. However, how one handles their dislike for another can often lead to inappropriate behavior (e.g. spreading rumors). On the other hand, you can dislike someone and still be nothing but civil to them.

Also, that tolerance for people regardless of their ideology isn't a liberal virtue, right?

I was clumsy in my earlier posts. Sorry for that. Tolerance is a liberal virtue (although I don't claim that liberals have a monopoly on it). Tolerance being the practice of prohibiting discrimination of actions or groups, usually ones that are frowned upon by large portions of people. Just because one wants to prohibit discrimination of a group (by government, business, etc.) doesn't mean they have to like them on a personal level. I can defend the right of the KKK to march and still refuse to sit down for drinks with the Grand Wizard.

Do you think this stuff about working together to solve problems is nonsense?

No.

Do you have contempt for people simply because that person has views that you disagree with?

Under most circumstances, contempt would be far too strong a word. But, I do a feel a bit of contempt for those who say that gays deserve to die of AIDS. Yet, I'm still tolerant of them. Just because I don't like them personally doesn't mean I don't support their rights to hold and espouse their views.


Please believe me that I only want to understand your POV. I wasn't expecting your response and I'm wondering if my close associates and friends who are liberal are off or if I just missed the point. It's not beyond me. :)

I appreciate your desire to understand my POV. It may take a few more exchanges for me to clear things up, but I'm afraid I'm off to bed for the night.

[Policenaut]

SNL better get some better writers because their Obama jokes (the few they have made) are lame. The country is moving more PC every day and I have no reason to believe it will be less PC under Obama. Where is our modern day Pryor? Why is it that SNL was edgier 30 years ago than it is today?

[RandFan]

I find the comparison between Fox News and NPR quite stark in terms of tolerance of different opinions. I'm not sure why you would compare Fox to NPR. I think a comparison of MSNBC would be more apt. I'm personally a fan of Rachel Maddow. I used to like Olberman but he has become increasingly shrill as of late.

I heard a conservative pundit on the radio today saying that Obama would turn the country into a "campus," in that it would become an excessively "PC" environment, with people "afraid to say what they think for fear of offending someone." I couldn't disagree more with this assessment of the the tenor of discourse on most campuses-- it was in college that I learned about fighting bad speech with more good speech, not with censorship.College? You mean the places with speech codes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_code)? The codes that are often struck down in court as they often impinge on free speech?

I don't see what Obama has to do with that. It's nonsense.

[RandFan]

I find personal reactions to other people can be a very fickle thing, and I don't think disliking someone for virtually any reason is necessarily inappropriate. However, how one handles their dislike for another can often lead to inappropriate behavior (e.g. spreading rumors). On the other hand, you can dislike someone and still be nothing but civil to them.

I was clumsy in my earlier posts. Sorry for that. Tolerance is a liberal virtue (although I don't claim that liberals have a monopoly on it). Tolerance being the practice of prohibiting discrimination of actions or groups, usually ones that are frowned upon by large portions of people. Just because one wants to prohibit discrimination of a group (by government, business, etc.) doesn't mean they have to like them on a personal level. I can defend the right of the KKK to march and still refuse to sit down for drinks with the Grand Wizard.

Under most circumstances, contempt would be far too strong a word. But, I do a feel a bit of contempt for those who say that gays deserve to die of AIDS. Yet, I'm still tolerant of them. Just because I don't like them personally doesn't mean I don't support their rights to hold and espouse their views.

I appreciate your desire to understand my POV. It may take a few more exchanges for me to clear things up, but I'm afraid I'm off to bed for the night. Thank you very much. I think I have a pretty good idea.

I agree that tolerance is a liberal virtue and one I like. I like a lot of things about liberals by the way. It sucks that the right has turned it into a word that many avoid in preference of "progresive". Liberals have a long and proud history and it shouldn't be considered a dirty word.

In the end liberals are people. They are quite capable of pettiness and intolerance. It's when they are that my claws come out. But I should be fair.

I'll back off of my claim that Fey is hypocritical until I get more information. I like her work on 30 Rock and SNL (though I've been critical of her work in the past).

[Puppycow]

Kudos to Palin.

I liked Fey but I don't have a lot of respect for her anymore. For some it's not enough to simply disagree with someone. Fey clearly has nothing but contempt for Palin simply because she disagrees with her politics. It's this kind of hypocracy that turns me off of the left. They claim to be tolerant and accepting of different points of views but it's largely BS.

I don't care for Palin's religion or her views on abortion and I certainly don't think she's qualified to be VP but I don't see hating someone or having a strong negative emotional feelings toward someone simply for ideological views.

Should we also do away with such things as political cartoons that poke fun at politicians?

[davefoc]

I thought she did well.

Almost certainly she won some votes with this appearance. She was smooth, happy, in control, entertaining and sexy.

As a person that is horrified by the notion that Sarah Palin might be president some day, I was disappointed that she did so well. It might be nice to think that the presidential race won't be decided by how well Palin did tonight but it might be.

McCain didn't do as well on Letterman, but there he had to deal with actual unscripted questions which included explaining away the lies that he had told Letterman previously.

[RandFan]

Should we also do away with such things as political cartoons that poke fun at politicians? What? You have me confused with some other body. I recorded all of Fey's Palin impressions and I think it's great stuff. It's dead on accurate in so many ways. It's the best stuff I've seen on SNL in a long time.

I'm a huge proponent of political parody and mockery in all of it glorious forms. I say bring it on. There should be no sacred cows. I don't care much for a lot of poking fun of handicapped but I don't bust anyone's balls for it.

Anything else though is fine with me and if it's political then I love that stuff. Not only do I like it but more importantly I recognize that political speech is really at the heart of the first Amendment. It's difficult to list many things more important than free speech.

I hope I've made that clear.

[anduin]

I've always found the left wanting tolerance for different opinions. Am I wrong? The word "divisive" is bandied about by folks on the left a lot of late. The political right is often criticized for polemical rhetoric.

Tolerance is indeed something to be aspired to, but do not mistake tolerance with mindless acceptance of other's views. I am a lurker, and I am sure that I disagree with your views, but I am tolerant of them. However, this tolerance does not give you a free pass from criticism. Fey's depiction of Palin is not intolerant, it is comic criticism. Therefore, it is not hypocritical.

In my experience, some right-wing sites are intolerant because they tend to systematically ban dissenting opinion. FreeRepubic, creationist sites, and Christian Forums usually ban posters who do not comply with the accepted opinion.

Having said that, I am troubled by intolerance whenever I see it, be it from the left or the right. I cherish the right of people to disagree, but never confuse tolerance with getting a free pass from criticism.

[HarryKeogh]

As an Obama supporter I was worried that Palin would kill tonight and be in a sketch that would be a YouTube sensation that would endear her to a certain base and win her a bunch of votes. I don't think that happened. She was a minor side character in the bits she was in and didn't have any killer lines.

Oh, and thank sweet baby Jesus for DVR for being able to fast-forward through most of that crappy show.

[maxfrost]

I thought Palin was a good sport to be on SNL, although it appeared to me that at times she was looking as though she'd rather be anywhere else.

Oh, and the worse thing I've heard Fey say about Palin was that she thought that they were of about equal intelligence and that neither one of them should be vice president.

[AWPrime]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be.You actually want to be governor of Alaska?

[gdnp]

True, but she is a governor of Alaska and she is more than you and I will ever hope to be. :D

You know it's true.

You judge yourself on an interesting scale and I choose not to play.

For example, I have 3 intelligent and well-adjusted kids, all of whom will likely attend college and none of whom (thus far) have become pregnant. That is far more important to me than national fame.

[Nyarlathotep]

She takes clearly recognizable features of Palin and exaggerates them for humorous effect. And she's really good at it.


Which is exactly what everycomedian who does impressions does when doing those impressions.

[RandFan]

However, this tolerance does not give you a free pass from criticism. Fey's depiction of Palin is not intolerant, it is comic criticism. Therefore, it is not hypocritical. Not at all what I was talking about.

Having said that, I am troubled by intolerance whenever I see it, be it from the left or the right. I cherish the right of people to disagree...Cool.

[RandFan]

You judge yourself on an interesting scale and I choose not to play.You are taking this out of context. Go back and re-read or see post #15.

[kallsop]

I think Tina Fey is great. If she pushes the envelope too far and let's her personal hatred of Palin intrude into her skits, they won't be funny and that defeats the purpose.

SNL is very much lame, and it's not too hard to see why. Just a few weeks ago they lampooned Bush, Pelosi, Frank and some folks "disadvantaged" by the mortgage mess and look at the flack they got from the "tolerant" liberal media. How dare they infer that the democrats are to blame for anything! SNL doesn't have the balls to do that every week. Where are the SNL skits trashing Biden for the dumb things he routinely says?

[Alferd_Packer]

Alex Baldwin appears to be channeling Marlon Brando and Elvis.

Is he getting bloated or what?

[FaisonMars]

I'm not sure why you would compare Fox to NPR. I think a comparison of MSNBC would be more apt. I'm personally a fan of Rachel Maddow. I used to like Olberman but he has become increasingly shrill as of late.


NPR is often held up as a "liberal" media outlet. I don't actually find this to be the case, except in the manner in which "reality has a well-known liberal bias."


College? You mean the places with speech codes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speech_code)? The codes that are often struck down in court as they often impinge on free speech?


I may just be lucky in where I've had the opportunities to work, but in my experience, uni campuses are VASTLY more tolerant of different viewpoints and in fostering an atmosphere of debating the merits of an idea than your typical corporate "cubical land" (or political arena, for that matter).

[RandFan]

..."reality has a well-known liberal bias." Please to explain?

I may just be lucky in where I've had the opportunities to work, but in my experience, uni campuses are VASTLY more tolerant of different viewpoints and in fostering an atmosphere of debating the merits of an idea than your typical corporate "cubical land" (or political arena, for that matter). I don't know what a political arena is but I think most corporations aren't about fostering free thought and expression.

I've my own anecdotal experience but the speech codes are troubling. How much they interfere with expression I don't know. I do know they typically lose in court when challenged.

[Cobalt]

Funny or not, she completely burned Alec Baldwin.

[thaiboxerken]

... but I don't see hating someone or having a strong negative emotional feelings toward someone simply for ideological views.

When those ideological views threaten my rights, my freedom and my planet, I don't see how a person can NOT have strong, negative emotions.

[thaiboxerken]

I've always found the left wanting tolerance for different opinions.

Not all opinions merit tolerance. Sarah Palin has many dangerous, if not horribly stupid opinions.

[FaisonMars]

Please to explain?


That's a famous quote from Stephen Colbert-- I think it might be from his White House Press Correspondents Dinner speech.

I use it here because, in my opinion, NPR news tries to cover the news objectively, including choosing to cover stories that are often neglected by more mainstream media. Many of these "reality-based" stories reflect poorly on the Bush administration (such as poverty in America, the real state of the war in Iraq, how Katrina was handled... Bill Moyers-type stories), and hence "reality has a liberal bias." Fox News conveniently ignores these stories, for the most part.

[thaiboxerken]

Not to mention global warming, evolution, advancement of science........ etc.

[gnome]

I give some kudos to Palin for appearing on a show that has bashed her so hard. It doesn't make me want to vote for her ticket any more than I did before, but she was a good sport just by appearing and I respect that.

[Tony]

It's this kind of hypocracy that turns me off of the left. They claim to be tolerant and accepting of different points of views but it's largely BS.


I can't speak for the left or Tina Fey, but personality, I am tolerant of different views. But you're confusing being tolerant of different views with tolerance for all views. One can be tolerant of different views but still find some views intolerable.

[RandFan]

That's a famous quote from Stephen Colbert-- I think it might be from his White House Press Correspondents Dinner speech.

I use it here because, in my opinion, NPR news tries to cover the news objectively, including choosing to cover stories that are often neglected by more mainstream media. Many of these "reality-based" stories reflect poorly on the Bush administration (such as poverty in America, the real state of the war in Iraq, how Katrina was handled... Bill Moyers-type stories), and hence "reality has a liberal bias." Fox News conveniently ignores these stories, for the most part.Thank you. I'm a big Colbert fan and I faintly remember that now. An advisor from the Bush adminstration once dismissed rationalists ad the "reality based" community. I suspect that played a part.

In truth reality doesn't have a liberal bias but I get the point.

[RandFan]

I can't speak for the left or Tina Fey, but personality, I am tolerant of different views. But you're confusing being tolerant of different views with tolerance for all views. One can be tolerant of different views but still find some views intolerable. I was refering to my understanding that Fey personally held contempt for Palin in addition to her contempt for those veiws.

[Iamme]

I'm leaning towards McCain. But admittedly, I think Palin has become this laughing stock, where it is pretty hard to imagine her in the oval office, especailly as Commander in Chief, if heaven forbid, it came to that, due to an untimely demise for McCain.

And I can't envision her standing next to Putin, Achmadinajad, Chavez, etc. and getting their respect. I could see Hillary getting their respect though, because Bill could maybe kick their butt. But I can't even get a mental image of this, with Palin being President. I am picturing granny from the Beverly Hillbillies having dignitaries over to the mansion, and offering them up possum for supper. Only with Palin it be moose stew.

So I am, in turmoil, right now, trying to convince myself to hedge my bet that McCain stays alive. And if not, I ask myself if Palin could be a better President than Obama and his radical pie-in-the-sky plans to utopia-ize this country.

BTW - I read all the posts on this thread. I often enjoy just reading all the banter.

[Ichneumonwasp]

I'm no Palin fan, but I gotta say I'm proud of her for that. I be thinkin' she done good.

[joobz]

Self-depricating humor can be used to dispell the insinuations and attitudes that surround a presonality. Unfortunately, Palin didn't participate in self deprication. She was merely present and had skits done arround her. It was more of a roast than a skit. I think she gets credit for facing those who are mocking her. But she failed at taking full advantage of the venue provided to her.

[moon1969]

Sarah Palin still is a dumb woman. She believes in creationism and she believes that being gay is a choice. Just like those republicans Ted Haggard, Mark Foley, Larry Craig and Mary Cheney chose to be gay. :D

[RandFan]

Sarah Palin still is a dumb woman. :rolleyes:

Damn uppity women. Next thing you know they'll think they are smart enough to vote and run for office.

[maxfrost]

:rolleyes:

Damn uppity women. Next thing you know they'll think they are smart enough to vote and run for office.

The End Times will surely be here when that happens.

[Ichneumonwasp]

Self-depricating humor can be used to dispell the insinuations and attitudes that surround a presonality. Unfortunately, Palin didn't participate in self deprication. She was merely present and had skits done arround her. It was more of a roast than a skit. I think she gets credit for facing those who are mocking her. But she failed at taking full advantage of the venue provided to her.


To be fair, she did a little. She did mention "Caribou Barbie" and the whole set up with Baldwin coming in and confusing her with Tina Fey was inherently self-deprecating.

I give her props for the SNL bit, even though I think she should probably have turned down McCain in the first place.

Now if she is elected I'm jumping ship and moving to New Zealand, but I guess I'll have to wait on that one.:)

[joobz]

To be fair, she did a little. She did mention "Caribou Barbie" and the whole set up with Baldwin coming in and confusing her with Tina Fey was inherently self-deprecating.
True. She did a little. But not really directly, but rather as a straight man. All she had to do was acknowledge the things being said. Granted, for her, that's a step in the right direction.

When McCain was on, he was genuinely funny and attacked the age issue head on with a mock PSA.

I am certain she was playing it cool, to avoid making more blunders. She didn't want to create a Rudy type legacy. Which, I always thought the ridicule he recieved was unfair. His cross dressing skit was great, and it humanized him in an important way at an important time.

[Ichneumonwasp]

True. She did a little. But not really directly, but rather as a straight man. All she had to do was acknowledge the things being said. Granted, for her, that's a step in the right direction.

When McCain was on, he was genuinely funny and attacked the age issue head on with a mock PSA.

I am certain she was playing it cool, to avoid making more blunders. She didn't want to create a Rudy type legacy. Which, I always thought the ridicule he recieved was unfair. His cross dressing skit was great, and it humanized him in an important way at an important time.


True, true. Had she done anything differently it probably would have played too much into the stereotypes, and she does have a political future to consider. Barring some unforeseen problem, she'll probably be the governor of Alaska for many years to come.

[dudalb]

Alex Baldwin appears to be channeling Marlon Brando and Elvis.

Is he getting bloated or what?


No Kidding.
And Baldwin has not had that great a career. A few good movies, and a lot of crap.
But he was great in "Glengerry Glen Ross". I will give that to him. At one time I could recite his "Coffee is for closers" rant verbatim.

[RandFan]

Malice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracy_Kennsinger)

"I have an M.D. from Harvard. I am board certified in cardiothoracic medicine and trauma surgery. I have been awarded citations from seven different medical boards in New England, and I am never, ever sick at sea.

So I ask you: When someone goes into that chapel and they fall on their knees and they pray to God that their wife doesn't miscarry, or that their daughter doesn't bleed to death, or that their mother doesn't suffer acute neural trauma from postoperative shock, who do you think they're praying to?

Now, go ahead and read your Bible, Dennis! And you go to your church, and, with any luck, you might win the annual raffle, but if you're looking for God, he was in operating room number two on November seventeenth, and he doesn't like to be second guessed.

You ask me if I have a God complex? Let me tell you something -- I am God." One of my favorite rants.

[gdnp]

:rolleyes:

Damn uppity women. Next thing you know they'll think they are smart enough to vote and run for office.

Do you have a warehouse to store all your straw men? Or just lots of straw and old clothes so that you can build them one at a time?

[gdnp]

True. She did a little. But not really directly, but rather as a straight man. All she had to do was acknowledge the things being said. Granted, for her, that's a step in the right direction.

When McCain was on, he was genuinely funny and attacked the age issue head on with a mock PSA.

I am certain she was playing it cool, to avoid making more blunders. She didn't want to create a Rudy type legacy. Which, I always thought the ridicule he recieved was unfair. His cross dressing skit was great, and it humanized him in an important way at an important time.

One of the funniest political skits I recall on SNL had someone playing W (probably Will Ferrel) in the oval office. Civilians would come in and he would play the typical bumbling mispeaking folksy Bush, and as soon as they left he would switch to a no-nonsense decisive leader juggling three crises and barking orders at his subordinates. I suppose they could have tried the same thing with Palin--had her start quoting Shakespeare and Heidegger, then go back into "you betcha" mode--but that would have required considerable acting ability.

[RandFan]

Do you have a warehouse to store all your straw men? Or just lots of straw and old clothes so that you can build them one at a time?I was mocking a dumb statement. I stand by it.

[gdnp]

I was mocking a dumb statement. I stand by it.

So was I. And so do I. ;)

[gtc]

a straight man.

This is a shocking revelation about Palin.

[RandFan]

So was I. And so do I. ;)I'm not sure how but that's fine. My statement was no more dumb than the mockery on SNL.

BTW: How would you respond to "dumb Jew" or "dumb black"? Wouldn't mockery be appropriate in those instances?

[gdnp]

I'm not sure how but that's fine. My statement was no more dumb than the mockery on SNL.

BTW: How would you respond to "dumb Jew" or "dumb black"? Wouldn't mockery be appropriate in those instances?

Ah. So your criticism is to the "woman" part, not the dumb part.

In answer to your question, would you have been offended if someone referred to someone else as a "smart Jew" or a "smart black?" I would. Would you be offended if someone referred to someone else as a "smart woman" or a "talented woman"? I wouldn't. The English language has gender, and thus referring to a female as a woman does not, in most instances, imply to me that the entire gender is being insulted the way that the nouns "Jew" or "black" would be offensive in the same context.

[RandFan]

In answer to your question, would you have been offended if someone referred to someone else as a "smart Jew" or a "smart black?"Not necassarily. No. Depends who said it and why they were saying it.

Would you be offended if someone referred to someone else as a "smart woman" or a "talented woman"? I wouldn't. The English language has gender, and thus referring to a female as a woman does not, in most instances, imply to me that the entire gender is being insulted the way that the nouns "Jew" or "black" would be offensive in the same context.I don't buy it. I wonder if the women of the forum buy it. Do they find the notion of "dumb woman" offensive. I can damn well assure you I would avoid using such a term. Dumb person. Yeah. Guys don't usually go around announcing "gee, he was a dumb man". But dumb woman sure flows off the toung easily enough.

[thaiboxerken]

I don't see the term "dumb woman" as a slur against women at all. I think you conservatives are really digging deep just to be offended.

[Morrigan]

:rolleyes:

Damn uppity women. Next thing you know they'll think they are smart enough to vote and run for office.

That's not remotely what he was saying. He was saying that Palin is a dumb woman, which is true. He didn't say "all women are dumb".

I was mocking a dumb statement. I stand by it.
Your own statements are pretty dumb, really.


I don't buy it. I wonder if the women of the forum buy it. Do they find the notion of "dumb woman" offensive.
I am a woman and not remotely offended by his post (in fact, I agree with it, Palin IS a dumb woman). I am almost more offended by your notion that women are such easily offended sissies, really. ;)

I don't see the term "dumb woman" as a slur against women at all. I think you conservatives are really digging deep just to be offended.

Yup. As I said in another post, they're bigger whiners than liberals/democrats in my experience. :D

[Tailgater]

This thread is hilarious. You guys are fighting over a comment made by a poster known for mild writing....uh.....problems, and now the last two posts are slapping labels on Randfan for an oversensitive comment as being "conservative". I didn't know the knee-jerk Jesse Jackson style of being offended (by what was thought to be a derogatory comment about women) equated to whiney conservative. Freaking hilarious. Carry on.

[Cicero]

Palin provides SNL with best ratings for the last 14 years. I thought Tina Fey was why people tuned in to SNL?

[thaiboxerken]

Tina Fey has never been as hilarious as she is when she portrays Palin. Palin is funny enough on her own, but we laugh AT Palin and with Tina.

[Snide]

You judge yourself on an interesting scale and I choose not to play.

For example, I have 3 intelligent and well-adjusted kids, all of whom will likely attend college and none of whom (thus far) have become pregnant. That is far more important to me than national fame."... and Mr. Youngman, I do not want to take your wife, as I already have one of my own..."

-Jon Stewart

[Cicero]

Tina Fey has never been as hilarious as she is when she portrays Palin. Palin is funny enough on her own, but we laugh AT Palin and with Tina.

Yet when Palin appears on the show, the ratings go through the roof. Did you laugh at Palin's put down of Alec Baldwin? Was "Baby Mama" Amy's rapping a rib tickler?
Your avatar suggest that your humor leans towards sophomoric.

[Disco]

Palin provides SNL with best ratings for the last 14 years. I thought Tina Fey was why people tuned in to SNL?

Tina Fey hasn't been a regular on the show for years. And the ratings were up for the Palin appearance because a whole slew of conservative viewers tuned in just to see her. They won't be watching future shows. In fact, several conservative viewers have written how offending the rest of the show was.

[joobz]

Yet when Palin appears on the show, the ratings go through the roof. Did you laugh at Palin's put down of Alec Baldwin?
Yes. it was quite funny.
Was "Baby Mama" Amy's rapping a rib tickler?
Not really. It was uncreative and rather expected.


Tina Fey isn't a reason to watch SNL. In fact, she isn't even a cast member.

The reasons to watch the current SNL.
Fred Armisen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Armisen)
Bill Hader (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Hader)
Will Forte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Forte)
Darrell Hammond (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Hammond)
Seth Meyers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Meyers)
Amy Poehler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Poehler)
Andy Samberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Samberg)
Jason Sudeikis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Sudeikis)
Kenan Thompson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenan_Thompson)
Kristen Wiig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_Wiig)

The current cast is hilarious and all add something to the mix. I'm a bit reserved on the new people. they haven't done much in the way of being funny. This may have been simply poor writing, as this season has been weak so far. I believe the weakness comes from a conservative "playing it safe" attitude. For instance, when Phelps was on, they reprized many of the skits that worked last season. however, Many skits simply do not warrent repeats. You can't be reserved on a comedy show. You need to take the risks and if it fails, oh well. At least you risked it.

[thaiboxerken]

Yet when Palin appears on the show, the ratings go through the roof.

Of course, it's because most people want to laugh AT Palin.


Did you laugh at Palin's put down of Alec Baldwin?

I chuckled a little.

Was "Baby Mama" Amy's rapping a rib tickler?

Yes.

Your avatar suggest that your humor leans towards sophomoric.

Your posts suggest that your politics are sophomoronic.

[Mercutio]

One of the funniest political skits I recall on SNL had someone playing W (probably Will Ferrel) in the oval office. Civilians would come in and he would play the typical bumbling mispeaking folksy Bush, and as soon as they left he would switch to a no-nonsense decisive leader juggling three crises and barking orders at his subordinates. I suppose they could have tried the same thing with Palin--had her start quoting Shakespeare and Heidegger, then go back into "you betcha" mode--but that would have required considerable acting ability.Odd... I remember a skit like this with Reagan, long ago. I do not recall seeing the one with W. My question... did they re-do the exact same skit? A different version? Am I mis-remembering? Are you?





Of course, cool as the question is, I am far to lazy to actually do any work to find out the answer.

[gdnp]

Odd... I remember a skit like this with Reagan, long ago. I do not recall seeing the one with W. My question... did they re-do the exact same skit? A different version? Am I mis-remembering? Are you?


Nope: I think you are right. It probably was Reagan. Especially since I haven't routinely watched SNL since the Reagan era. Interesting how memory can play tricks. The skit would have worked with either, but I doubt they would have redone it for the new era.

[Cicero]

That's a famous quote from Stephen Colbert-- I think it might be from his White House Press Correspondents Dinner speech.

I use it here because, in my opinion, NPR news tries to cover the news objectively, including choosing to cover stories that are often neglected by more mainstream media. Many of these "reality-based" stories reflect poorly on the Bush administration (such as poverty in America, the real state of the war in Iraq, how Katrina was handled... Bill Moyers-type stories), and hence "reality has a liberal bias." Fox News conveniently ignores these stories, for the most part.

.
Diane Rehm, Terry Gross, Daniel Shore, and Bill Moyers are congenitally incapable of objectivity and their ideological bias prohibits them from ravaging liberal politicians for their incompetence and blame in the mishandling of "reality-based" stories such as Katrina, The Great Society, Mae & Mac, etc.

Exactly what is the "real state" of the war in Iraq that only NPR manages to capture? Since the Iraq War is not even in the top five issues for the voting public, NPR's drum beat that the U.S. lost the Iraq War doesn't appear to be working anymore.

[Cicero]

I'm leaning towards McCain. But admittedly, I think Palin has become this laughing stock, where it is pretty hard to imagine her in the oval office, especailly as Commander in Chief, if heaven forbid, it came to that, due to an untimely demise for McCain.

And I can't envision her standing next to Putin, Achmadinajad, Chavez, etc. and getting their respect.


Why would Palin care if Achmadinajad or Chavez respected her? Why would any POTUS care about that? They only need to fear her.

[thaiboxerken]

Fear is not a good way to do business.

[fuelair]

She has run a marathon, had 5 kids, and shot wolves from an airplane, none of which I will ever be able to do.

However, I understand and respect science, which seems to be more than she will ever be able to do.
and, I assume you do not believe in witches or deal gladly with people who want to drive them away.

[boloboffin]

One of the funniest political skits I recall on SNL had someone playing W (probably Will Ferrel) in the oval office. Civilians would come in and he would play the typical bumbling mispeaking folksy Bush, and as soon as they left he would switch to a no-nonsense decisive leader juggling three crises and barking orders at his subordinates. I suppose they could have tried the same thing with Palin--had her start quoting Shakespeare and Heidegger, then go back into "you betcha" mode--but that would have required considerable acting ability.

That was Phil Hartman playing Reagan.

I've been thinking the obvious joke here for quite a while, so I'm going to go ahead and spill it.

She's a perfect fit for "Saturday Night Live." She's not ready for prime time.

[Ausmerican]

Funny or not, she completely burned Alec Baldwin.

Really? I thought that joke was sort of two edged. She said Stephen was her favorite Baldwin brother. Stephen the born again evangelical who was moving house becaude his protest about an adult bookstore opening in his town failed Baldwin. Stephen who seems to be heading toward being the next Kirk Cameron in that he will only get roles in fundy movies Baldwin.

[aerosolben]

Funny or not, she completely burned Alec Baldwin.
Alec Baldwin sucked - he was completely wooden through his appearance. He has a long legacy of good performances, so I can only imagine it's a visceral hatred of Palin that brought him down.

[davefoc]

Really? I thought that joke was sort of two edged. She said Stephen was her favorite Baldwin brother. Stephen the born again evangelical who was moving house becaude his protest about an adult bookstore opening in his town failed Baldwin. Stephen who seems to be heading toward being the next Kirk Cameron in that he will only get roles in fundy movies Baldwin.

I thought so too.

Before looking up anything about Steven Baldwin my uninformed opinion was that he was some sort of alcoholic, drug addicted born again nutjob.

Actually some of that was true but he seems to be doing better than I realized. He's had some acting jobs and he's directed some stuff and he seems like he has put at least some of his destructive behaviors behind him. The Wikipedia article didn't deal with these issues very much. Probably something about NPOV or requiring sources got in the way. But I did find this interview which touched on it a bit:
http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/09/saint_stephen.php

The closest to nut jobbery out of the interview was his response when asked if he could name the ten commandments:

Gosh, I should know this. I spank my children because they don't know this. Let me think.... Thou shall not kill.... Thou shall not steal.... [Long pause] Honor thy mother and father.... [Another long pause] Shall not covet thy neighbor's wife....

And that might have been a joke. I'd like to think that Baldwin is not spanking his kids if they don't know the ten commandments. So not much to ridicule Palin here over (see her clothing budget or expense account charges or her understanding about the role of the US VP for better opportunities). Stephen Baldwin looks like a reasonable person that reasonably enough Palin would prefer over the liberally oriented Alec Baldwin.

[Cicero]

And that might have been a joke. I'd like to think that Baldwin is not spanking his kids if they don't know the ten commandments.

No. Moby Baldwin just abuses his children over the phone. What the Hell is wrong with spanking your child? Is that Oprah Fundamentalism you follow?

[Cicero]

Alec Baldwin sucked - he was completely wooden through his appearance. He has a long legacy of good performances, so I can only imagine it's a visceral hatred of Palin that brought him down.

By your standard, Moby Baldwin is incapable of doing his job of acting with any believability if he dislikes the other actors and actresses in a scene. This must mean that his performances can only be saved in the editing room.

But Tina Fey's 'visceral hatred" of Palin prevented her from appearing on camera with her. Fey must hate Amy Poehler since their movie "Baby Mama" was pathetic.

[aerosolben]

By your standard, Moby Baldwin is incapable of doing his job of acting with any believability if he dislikes the other actors and actresses in a scene. This must mean that his performances can only be saved in the editing room.

But Tina Fey's 'visceral hatred" of Palin prevented her from appearing on camera with her. Fey must hate Amy Poehler since their movie "Baby Mama" was pathetic.
I have no idea where you're going with this - I expressed an opinion on his performance, and speculated on its reason. There is no broader point being made.

[Ausmerican]

I have no idea where you're going with this -.

That's OK, neither does he.